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Is This What The New "Swiss Bank Account" Looks Like?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

There was a time when everyone (who was anyone) wanted a Swiss bank account, as much as an offshore cash parking vehicle as for its hushed prestige, whispered to a select few during Hamptons' cocktail parties. Those days are now gone, with the last remaining anonymous offshore private banking bastion left being Singapore, if even that. So in a world in which country after country is scrambling to hike income (and soon financial wealth and asset) taxes on the superrich, is this, paradoxically, what the new "Swiss bank account" is going to look like? And with the Obelix case study officially in the books, who will be the next to take advantage of the former KGB spy's taxation generosity?

 


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Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:36 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

People with Russian wives? That are specifically NOT us citizens?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:47 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Interested single guys might want to see if any of those ChristianMingle gals are from Russia...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:50 | Link to Comment Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

try taxing bitcoins, phd morons

 

1. go to http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/

2. look at number of subscribers

3. wait 5 minutes

4. press reload, watch higher number of subscribers

5. get the fuck out of the TBTF world; embrace hyperinflation; love The Bernank!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:52 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

Help me out here. Why would I trust my fortune converting USD (or gold) to some unknown company's chits?

How do I know that they are anything different that soverign's fiat?

 

*** Serious question, I dont understand the benefits of bitcoin

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Russian Passport? Income tax is only 13% in Russia. Russia is the New America because the collectivists have gotten hold of the USA.

And the proof is in the new Pravda and how Russia came to our rescue;

Global warming, the tool of the West

By Stanislav Mishin

For years, the Elites of the West have cranked up the myth of Man Made Global Warming as a means first and foremost to control the lives and behaviors of their populations. Knowing full well that their produce in China and sell in the West model and its consiquent spiral downward in wages and thus standards of living, was unsustainable, the elites moved to use this new "science" to guilt trip and scare monger their populations into smaller and more conservatives forms of living. In other words, they coasted them into the poverty that the greed and treason of those said same elites was already creating in their native lands.

What better way to staunch protests at worsening economic and life conditions than to make it feel like an honourable job/duty of the people to save "Gia". At the same time, they used this "science" as a new pagan religion to further push out the Christianity they hate and despise and most of all, fear? Gia worship, the earth "mother", has been pushed in popular culture oozing out of the West for a better part of the past 1.5 decades. This is a religion replete with an army of priests, called Government Grant Scientists.

Various groups have fought back. This is including Russian hackers, who published a huge database of UK government, scientific and university emails depicting the fixing of data to sell Global Warming, er Climate Change (as if it never changed on its own). And while taking hit after hit, the beast, like Al Quida, will not die. As a matter of fact, the beast is on a steady come back, as it is quite useful during the down times recession. The US alone spends $7 billion each year on warming "studies", which is, in truth, nothing but a huge money laundering operation, as no real science is conducted and vapid alarmist reports the only product generated.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-01-2013/123380-global_warming-0/

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:05 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Surely Russia's position has nothing to do with their vast oil and coal reserves (2nd in the world in coal).  Believe what you want, but always consider the agenda of your sources.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:08 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

And numero uno is...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:11 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

You can always become your own central banker. Starve the beast and make sure that you have a few matchbooks from the local strip club. "I spent all my EBT at the Cougar Club, officer." Also you should go canoeing often.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:27 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well thats certainly something to think about ;-)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

To paraphrase a gag from a recent comic strip:

Old guy: “Back in my day we had a word for global warming.. it was called “August”.”

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:02 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

ROTFL!!!

The paradox of cold/hot/wet/dry global warming alarmists everywhere...lol.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:43 | Link to Comment SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

nmewn,

 

Geological history's proof is in stone. We are warming globally.

The paradox happens to be, the short sightedness of mankind.

Such an immature mindset. 

Forgotten is, what the future becomes.

 

I did not + -

 

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Piss off.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:06 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

No one proclaims their innocence so loudly,

as the GUILTY!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Clever Name
Clever Name's picture

Or the innocent, falsely accused.

 

Numbnuts.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 09:58 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

The stupid part about hyperadvocating for man-made global warming is that, in addition to being pretty shaky scientifically, it distracts from actual, practical environmental issues, like clean air and clean water.  The environmental movement would be a shitload more effective if it simply couched it's concerns as "hey, maybe we should not put poison in the air and water, because our kids our injesting poison right now, due to (insert company here) dumping (insert toxic shit here)."

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

stupid, unless intentional...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Peterus
Peterus's picture

I agree. However in case of AGW "scientists position" is certainly not out of scope of investigation.

Controling some global agency that may rule CO2 emissions is extreme power. It could actually accomplish reinstatment of mass poverty in the West, effectively suffocate sinful industrial revolution to death. Things that some green ideologues wanted for quite some time. It also makes some scientist in small and undeveloped branch of science into saviours, gives them constant funding etc.

Both sides are suspect. So I'm waiting for a string of consequitve, accurate and concrete guesses about climate in 10, 20 years (let's say some median rise in temperatures, where it is going to be highest and where lowest). If they pull it off might be convinced. So far each prediction is grimmer and less accurate than the previous one. Not good enough to demand retooling of the entire global industry.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 23:51 | Link to Comment Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture

 

BREAKING:

Does NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) keep two separate sets of climate books for the USA?

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/06/does-noaas-national-climatic-data-center-ncdc-keep-two-separate-sets-of-climate-books-for-the-usa/

[snip]

Glaring inconsistencies found between State of the Climate (SOTC) reports sent to the press and public and the “official” climate database record for the United States.

First, I should point out that I didn’t go looking for this problem, it was a serendipitous discovery that came from me looking up the month-to-month average temperature for the Continental United States (CONUS) for another project which you’ll see a report on in a couple of days. What started as an oddity noted for a single month now seems clearly to be systemic over a two-year period. On the eve of what will likely be a pronouncement from NCDC on 2012 being the “hottest year ever”, and since what I found is systemic and very influential to the press and to the public, I thought I should make my findings widely known now. Everything I’ve found should be replicable independently using the links and examples I provide. I’m writing the article as a timeline of discovery.

At issue is the difference between temperature data claims in the NCDC State of the Climate reports issued monthly and at year-end and the official NCDC climate database made available to the public. Please read on for my full investigation...

...Based on my reading of it, with their SOTC reports that are based on preliminary data, and not corrected later, NCDC has violated these four key points:

In the guidelines, OMB defines ‘‘quality’’ as the encompassing term, of which ‘‘utility,’’ ‘‘objectivity,’’ and ‘‘integrity’’ are the constituents. ‘‘Utility’’ refers to the usefulness of the information to the intended users. ‘‘Objectivity’’ focuses on whether the disseminated information is being presented in an accurate, clear, complete, and unbiased manner, and as a matter of substance, is accurate, reliable, and unbiased. ‘‘Integrity’’ refers to security—the protection of information from unauthorized access or revision, to ensure that the information is not compromised through corruption or falsification. OMB modeled the definitions of ‘‘information,’’ ‘‘government information,’’ ‘‘information dissemination product,’’ and ‘‘dissemination’’ on the longstanding definitions of those terms in OMB Circular A–130, but tailored them to fit into the context of these guidelines.

I’ll leave it to congress and other Federal watchdogs to determine if a DQA violation has in fact occurred on a systemic basis. For now, I’d like to see NCDC explain why two publicly available avenues for “official” temperature data don’t match. I’d also like to see them justify their claims in the next SOTC due out any day.

I’ll have much more in the next couple of days on this issue, be sure to watch for the second part.

For now, in case the SOTC reports should suddenly disappear or get changed without notice, I have all of those NCDC reports that form the basis of Table 1 archived below as PDF files.

 

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 00:31 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Wow, thanks. I was over there posting today the Pravda article. But this story is big, really big in the scientific community. I expect heads to roll over this one.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 01:53 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

thanks for the sarcasm, lol

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Some agendas are natural like oil, coal, and gas. Others like Agenda 21 and man-made climate change are manufactured for our enslavement.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:13 | Link to Comment trav777
trav777's picture

that round earth stuff was too

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:44 | Link to Comment BlueCheeseBandit
BlueCheeseBandit's picture

Surely the environmentalist's positions have nothing to do with the government grants to be had, money to be made selling green products, and political power to be garnered from pushing the climate change agenda.

The trouble with ad hominem arguments...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

Being a researcher right now, I can tell you firsthand that the green movement is both driven by orgs. like DOE and NSF selectively handing out funding to "green" research. Also, the development of green products has been a big boon for the research area because conventional oil-based chemistry has basically been studied to death, and as such there isn't a need for the old oil and gas research anymore. I've heard time and time again since ~2004 the excitement of professors about how they are working "In a brand new area, no one has done any work on this before!"

 

On campus, all I can say is that the rhetoric has gone from the bizarre to the sublime. Every time the heat index goes over 100 I hear OHMIGOSHGLOBALWARMINGISKILLINGUSALL! And every time there's a heavy snow the College Republicans come out with signs while chanting "Al Gore lied! It's cold outside!" There is no rational discussion on global warming, at least that I can see.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:41 | Link to Comment Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Sounds like you've very rational....follow the money.  You helped follow it from researcher to government.  

As for global warming being real as a given and then having a discussion from that...I also agree with you.  It's completely irrational to take global warming seriously.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment trav777
trav777's picture

totally dude, you know, despite that pesky evidence and all that

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:59 | Link to Comment willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

What evidence? Are you referring to climate CHANGE?

What fuckin hypocrites our leaders are to jam us up the ass with a carbon tax, when they passed NAFTA to allow China to become the environmental cesspool of the industrial world with their blessings.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

That pretty much sums it up, through so many agreements the USA get's Canada's resources, Mexico's cheap labor, and China's goods, and in return they get the USA's inflation and pollution. I wonder who won on that deal. And when the world will stop giving us so much stuff at a steep discount.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 22:43 | Link to Comment laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

    For following the money, here's how the money works from what I can see: University prestige is defined in terms of the number of professors invited to sit on advisory boards of state and federal agencies as policy experts, and in terms of the amount of research funding brought in to a university. The federal+state governments control both of these. So, the NIH/NSF/DOE/DOD/EPA/FDA/USDA/etc. releases grant money that stipulates the terms of what research gets accepted and what doesn't, and researchers willing to investigate the right questions get the rewards (and the heads of those agencies are appointed, so the funding is ultimately decided by who happens to be the favorite in Washington). This is also doubly true when researchers use part of the money for "broader impacts" aka "education outreach programs." The researchers who then deliver the most under this paradigm are then invited to sit on the advisory boards, where they then perpetuate the same perspective that got them there.

    While conspiracy theory is possible under this model, note that it is not required. The real danger in my opinion is that academia is ultimately beholden to political fashion, aka the whims of the political class. But I also think that is the point: the political class controls the academic class through agency funding, so that they are subject to their whims. But since profs get to have a small piece of the action by getting to be a part if they are good little professors, they all gladly go along with it.

    On global warming specfically, I had to rage over a recent edition of the American Chemical Society's main trade magazine, in which a professor described the release of emails from East Anglia as "an attack on the entire profession," saying that the entire scientific community must rally behind the global warming cause and ideologically crush every blogger and global warming skeptic. Come on. Science and espcially university science should be a hall of debate, not an echo chamber, and certainly not an ideological hammer to smash opponents with. It's an abuse of credentials and shameful to the profession of science in my opinion. I am actually open to the global warming hypothesis and would like to see some debate, but there's too many fanatics in official positions for me to take it seriously.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

Good stuff Mike. I did about 18 months of blogging work on Watts Up With That and other blogs to smash their machine during the climategate email days. I'm not paid, just enjoy the challenge and victory.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:54 | Link to Comment S5936
S5936's picture

Great stuff. Anybody with half a functioning brain knew it was bullshit. Now we know why. Thx.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:53 | Link to Comment TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

I felt great relieve when the climate hoax got exposed.

MSM and .gov keep churning out the the same propaganda
as before, as if nothing happened. Like posting some obviously faked birth certificate , they probably just make fun of us : those funny little truthers can`t defy our grand
lies !

They carry on regardless.

The truth can be let out in controlled dissent, because
no-one will believe it anyway.

If all else fails, make statements about hoaxes illegal.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Michaelwiseguy
Michaelwiseguy's picture

The mainstream media is stuck on stupid and most everybody knows it. That's why hardly anybody watches them anymore.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Bitcoin isn't controlled by any company or government.

That's the main attraction of it. It's true peer to peer money.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Do you accept my own printed monopoly money?  It's not government controlled. It's peer to peer.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

I would; if it was created in a limited amounts, could not be faked, was easy to transfer globally, and had millions of active users. 

 

Bitcoin exchange wins right to operate as bank.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-12/08/bitcoin-bank

 

A small list of indpendent sites that accept bitcoin, other massive sites like wordpress and reddit do as well.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

 

Bitcoin is right up ZH's alley. I love gold and as much as the next guy on here but being able to have a secret, untracable, medium of exchange that can be sent anywhere in the world instantly is essential to liberty. A little geeky but I reccomend reading the technical details behind it.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:05 | Link to Comment Drunken Monkey
Drunken Monkey's picture

"being able to have a secret, untracable, medium of exchange that can be sent anywhere in the world instantly is essential to liberty."

Bitcoin is not that. A full history of all the transactions that a coin has taken part in is always available on the 'net, and must be because it's the heart of the protocol that prevents someone from spending the same coin twice. If "They" get their hands on your bitcoin user id (not password) "they" know exactly what you have earned and spent.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

That's why I said before that bitcoin is a totalitarian government's wet dream. Digital money may be exactly what the NWO would prefer to replace the USD and other fiat currencies.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I agree, eliminating all physical cash transanctions is the goal of the NWO.  Very much like bitcoin, global credits and all.  Using cash is the last bastion of anonymity, of course there will always some form of underground market.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

The uninformed skeptic, huh?

Bitcoin isn't suitable for their purpose:

a) All transactions are public and transparent

b) It doesn't "support" franctional reserve banking

c) It can't be created at will 

d) Its quantity cannot be manipulated (different from c))

e) They democratize banking - anyone can be a DIY bitcoin bank

f) etc. - I don't want to waste my time on you because you already know all this and more...

 

I'd love the government to replace all USD with BTC. The price of BTC would skyrocket.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"I'd love the government to replace all USD with BTC. The price of BTC would skyrocket."

You obviously have a vested interest in bitcoins.  I don't know anyone who would sell you their gold for bitcoins.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 02:50 | Link to Comment New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

I have 20 grams of gold for sale.  Bidding starts at 100 bitcoins.  Any takers?  This is a real offer.  Valid for a couple days.  Shipping will be from New Zealand (after I get the BTC).  Please consider this in terms of customs, concealment, etc.  Shipping from APMEX could perhaps be arranged if you are paranoid about G-men stealing it, though you may have to deal with the G-men after they follow APMEX's paper trail.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 02:59 | Link to Comment aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

I don't know anyone who would sell you their gold for bitcoins.

Lolwut? Lots of people trade gold for bitcoin. I sold gold last year to buy bitcoin.

Here's a dealer who trades directly: http://www.coinabul.com/ 

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 03:48 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

That enthusiasm of your last statement is somewhat indicitave of a pyramid scheme...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

In that case, one would have to think ahead about how to keep their username encrypted and or separate from any other form of identification. I haven't gotten into bitcoin yet because these are all legitimate questions that need to be worked out.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

there is no userid in bitcoin, there are only giant addresses, like this one:  1J4yuJFqozxLWTvnExR4Xxe9W4B89kaukY

http://blockchain.info/address/1J4yuJFqozxLWTvnExR4Xxe9W4B89kaukY

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Please find out how many bitcoins I sent yesterday and to how.

 

I'll wait here.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Of course he can't because he doesn't give a damn. But a determined group aka the thug government could trace you just like they can find who's behind the nick GFKjunior.

Specifically, they need to enter a trade with you, to buy from or sell to you. Then they get your IP address and from the ISP or telco find who you are. While you may use some measures to evade this, sooner or later they'd bust you.

Bitcoin is anonymous enough. It may be a year or more until they start watching the big fish. The small fish won't be interesting to them unless Bitcoin becomes very popular. Then they could ban the exchanges.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 02:08 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Bitcoin exchange wins right to operate as bank.

 

Hum... not quite true: https://www.bitcoin-central.net/s/aqoba-partnership

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

While I certainly wouldn't convert a fortune into bitcoin, it's a plausible currency for a short-term survival stash, especially if you think you'll be leaving a country that's subject to capital controls.

Covering all the details of bitcoin in a simple forum message can't be done, but in a nutshell it's not "some unknown company." It's a known algorithm. It's also what I'd call an anti-sovereign currency (or perhaps an atomically soverign currency, like gold.) Like any currency it depends on others recognizing it's value, and exchange is dependent on some level of communication existing. It's not quite fiat, as there are significant computational burdens (which require energy and time investment) and like natural resources there's a built-in limit to how many bitcoins can be "mined."

The key benefits are that it's as anonymous as cash, without requiring you to carry cash. You could in theory hide the appropriate bitcoin information on a web-accessible computer anywhere on the planet, or even print it out and hide it in a book or whatever, and then leave the country "penniless" and recover your bitcoins outside the country.

I would suggest if nothing else it would make sense to set aside a few hours and do some serious reading on bitcoin. It's not a replacement for gold, but could potentially be a replacement exchange currency.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

My problem with Bitcoin is that someone could come up with Buttcoin or Sitcoin or some other form of computational currency.

I know you address this in your post, and I realize Bitcoin has a firstmover advantage. However, for me its a 'bit' of a dealbreaker.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The FedRes will not put up with that if it becomes much bigger.

Organised crime hates competition.

I'd stick to ancient relics unless you want to get burned in an

example pour les autre.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:43 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

They actually don't have much of a choice. The only effective way to control bitcoin is to basically shut down or heavily censor the entire internet.

I could see legislation being passed in some countries (cough, US, cough) making using it illegal, but it's cross into some first amendment issues that would be particularly tricky. More likely is more of the same -- there's signficant restrictions on cash transmission services like Western Union that make moving large amount of money into BTC anonymously within the US almost impossible.

It's worth noting that a substantial portion (>20%) of Chile's internal payments are now done via BTC, and there is now an officially recognized BTC banking gateway in France.

I'm very pessimistic about the general outlook for the US, and expect lots of crazy restrictive laws to get passed, particularly with respect to finance and commerce in the coming years -- but at this point BTC has enough of a foothold in enough places that I believe it's now an unkillable currency; they best "they" can do is restrict the ability to move in and out of it within certain countries, but as the US isn't the world, they won't be able to stop it globally.

I've linked to this blog entry before, because I consider it eye-opening: http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/9/15/brazil-and-the-global-payments...

I was ambivalent about BTC prior to 2012, now I'm convinced it's on track to the big time.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:34 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

My problem with Bitcoin is that someone could come up with Buttcoin or Sitcoin or some other form of computational currency.

National currencies are ALL counterfeight, all the time. And, there are MANY of them.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

@ Dr. Benway

 

There are already several other competing digital currencies, that's the beauty of the free market. Bitcoin is just the largest and most well known. It's hard to get enough people to use one digital currency I doubt they will jump ship unless the alternative is significantly better.

 

Here is one that all ZHer's would laugh at. Freicoin. It's a currency that promotes inflation because saving is bad!! It has demurrage built in because they believe spending is the most important thing people can do!!

http://www.freicoin.org/

It's based on the ideas of Silvio Gesell, who Rothbard called a "German money crank".

 

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"National currencies are ALL counterfeight, all the time"

If you collect banknotes or traveled far and wide,
those paper certificates surely look funny with
all those silly faces and other features trying
to give a shine of authority.

Shabby banknotes in ever higher denominations indicate
cheap booze and hookers, absence or reluctant use of cash means there is free pussy galore for free spenders from
outside the currency control mechanism.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 04:36 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Did you mentioned Buttcoins? http://buttcoin.org/what-are-buttcoins

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"It's not quite fiat, as there are significant computational burdens (which require energy and time investment) and like natural resources there's a built-in limit to how many bitcoins can be "mined."

One of the problems I have with bitcoin is that although it's limitations may be agreed upon, they are man made, not bound by natural physical limitations like mining physical gold.  So therefore it's current limitations will change with time.  The desire, energy and time investment to cheat a system like this is not a big enough obstacle.  Another problem I have is the internet can be too easily shut down, monitored or controlled.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Singapore announced full OECD compliance in 2009 or so.

Even before, their not-so-private-banking was dominated
by the likes of Citi , HSBC... just trying to rip off
Asians too with their highly uncompetitive offers .

Doubt any real funds moved from Swiss cheese holes into stale Chinese noodles.

No doubt the Swiss were the most professional bankers in the world until told to stumble into their own swords, but
relationship banking always ruled the rest of the world and
easily absorbed any real flows.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

*** Serious question, I dont understand the benefits of bitcoin

Bitcoin is electronic cash, outside the control of any bank or state.

Also...

Bitcoin is not really anonymous, but if you use it well, you can keep your identity unknown.

And, it is finite - only a certain number of Bitcoins can ever be made (and it isn't easy to make them).

IMO, everyone should be using Bitcoin, now. It's not a full replacement for silver and gold, but it's a hell of a good tool.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:21 | Link to Comment trav777
trav777's picture

screw bitcoin; it's a joke.

Without STATES and FORCE to back up the transactions, you have nothing.  Bitcoin is a velveteen rabbit.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:24 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Mmmmmmm ..... Velveeta!

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 08:45 | Link to Comment tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

To my knowledge the Velveteen Rabbit had not resolved the double spend.  Resolving the double spend is not a joke and neither is a "public" record of all transactions that is unless you believe that the largest p2p computer network on the globe is something to laugh about.  How big of a network do you think is required to hack PGP and who will have it first, the government or bitcoin?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 22:40 | Link to Comment TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Well, if a bigot doesn't like it - then it must be doing something right.

Nice little pro-government rallying cry there, too.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Karlus, I originally wrote this as a reply to someone else who had critical questions about bitcoin. Reposting here to help illuminate the subject for you.

On to bitcoin specific questions:

1.) "What is the inherent value of the bitcoin algorithm?"

People often stumble on this part because they're not used to operating in the abstract realm of digital representations or code. Tangible items have properties that you're familiar with - if I point to gold as an example, you'll conclude that it has fungible and scarcity characteristics, allowing you to accept its use.

Bitcoin has value, but not in the numismatic sense to which you are accustomed. Its roots are in SHA256 and ECDSA cryptography, which ensure scarcity (and solves the double-spend problem) through proof-of-work. You can't "print" bitcoins any more than you could paint a rock and call it a gold nugget. It is fungible, via the peer-to-peer network that simultaneously verifies all transactions and provides transit to any other node on the planet.

As to inherent value - I value a system that allows me to freely allocate my wealth without restriction. Geographic or political concerns disappear. I value a system that allows transfers in hours, not days, and can do so without extortionate fees. I value a system that can't decide to block payment on a whim. For business, I value a system that doesn't allow chargebacks for equally frivolous reasons. I also value the fact this allows easy physical transport, for situations where I'd need to travel elsewhere.

2.) "How can a digital commodity like bitcoin function as a unit of account,. etc.."

This is already happening. People are trading bitcoins with each other for goods and services. (With the blockchain functioning like a triple-entry-ledger for all transactions.) There is no catch-22, as the system is already functioning and growing at a quick pace.

Most articles focus on the "black" market aspects (which sovereign currencies have been inhabiting for a long time) which ignores the inherent value of bitcoin as a currency and payment processing system.

To put it another way, there would be no black market if there wasn't any VALUE to begin with. Just like Canadian Dollars, US Dollars, Pounds, Yen, Yuan, etc.. All of these currencies have HUGE black markets for various things, yet no one seems to use this as an argument against using that particular currency. Curious, isn't it?

3.) "What is stopping the sort of volatility that have historically affected ALL experiments in free banking from occurring again?"

Explicitly, the system is designed to be just like the internet, decentralized with no central point of failure, global reach, and an excellent foundation in non-inflationary principles by having verifiable units and a upper bound on their numbers. (Don't get fooled by deflationary concerns, it is quite divisible as I've stated before.)

This means no one can turn off a single machine and cause the entire network to go 'poof'. (Which has been the bane of other digital systems.) Even if all of the USA were somehow removed from the peer-to-peer system via firewall blocking or some kind of embargo, the rest of the nodes would survive, as bitcoin has global reach.

As for pricing volatility, the exchanges at the edges provide these - but you must realize that conversion into other currencies is merely a phase in bitcoin's evolution. While market depth has increased and volatility have decreased relative to other currencies, the ultimate use for bitcoin will between the peers themselves which will preclude any "chokepoints" that have been a source of concern.

To put it simply, if I'm earning in bitcoin and spending in bitcoin - what do I care what the Canadian Dollar or US Dollar is doing? Would I even bother stepping out of my secure network to transfer into these currencies? You'd be surprised how many are already doing this, and this number will grow as edge-exchanges become more irrelevant.

As for security, other than the blockchain -  which is powered by the largest collection of machines on the planet, there are methods to store your bitcoins in "offline" wallets that ensure absolute security. As bitcoin is digital and can exist on many different devices, this provides portability and flexibility that is unheard of in other currencies.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:35 | Link to Comment H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

I'm gving you a thumbs up trader although I'm a dumbass and have a long learning curve. It sounds GREAT, and I hope it works. Thanks for the info.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 01:28 | Link to Comment lewy14
lewy14's picture

Bitcoin cannot be "printed", but it can, in fact, be "mined".

Google "mine bitcoin fpga".

If you can convert bitcoin for enough dollars to cover the variable cost of mining the bitcoin i.e. the cost of electricity - you have an arbitrage, and you will make money.

Bitcoin isn't exactly "energy backed", but it is energy-linked.

Not saying this is good or bad - just saying that folks who convert substantial assets to bitcoin should be aware of all the things influencing the conversion rate.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Karlus:  With bitcoin, you trust nobody.  There's no company, no organization responsible, only a peer-to-peer network that ensures honesty of the system's transactions.  Like gold, bitcoin is scarce: there will be 21,000,000 and that's it (they are also easily divisible).  

 

So someone that buys 2100 bitcoins basically has 1/10,000 of all the bitcoins that will ever be created.  

 

The code is open-source, and it uses proven cryptography to ensure people can't be stolen.  Yes, there's a little learning curve, but the potential here is gigantic.

 

Do not convert gold to bitcoin.  I'm not doing that.  But I'm converting a whole lotta fiat.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

There is no 'company' to trust- that's the beauty of Bitcoin.

It's decentralized, open source, voluntary, peer-to-peer... and, with a wee bit of common sense- untraceable.

Bitcoins aren't as much an investment in and of themselves as they are an anonymous tool used to aquire real assets

without leaving a paper trail.

 

 

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 05:09 | Link to Comment 13thWarrior
13thWarrior's picture

And you need serious processing power for making bitcoins quick enough.

Not easy for mortals but walk in a park for HFT leviathans.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 12:35 | Link to Comment corvettekenny
corvettekenny's picture

Bitcoin is decentralized.  There is no central company or bank where an account can be seized, transaction records taken, etc.  The "blockchain" is public knowledge and shared by all bitcoin applications.  It contains a list of every transaction the network agreed is valid and a list of all current account numbers and their balances.  If a user managed to "print" 1 million new bitcoins into existence, as is done with fiat hourly, it would be obvious to anyone viewing the blockchain.  Thus there can be no stealthly devaluation of the currency.  Exchange rates are floating between Bitcoin and fiat.  So Bitcoin's value seems to come from a combination of scarcity, transparency, and utility (the number of vendors and individuals willing to do business in Bitcoin).

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment geewhiz
geewhiz's picture

The new offshore accounts is bitcoin ewallets and PM's under your own lock and key. Then you need a nice beast friendly tax consuming persona to wear while you work your way into the artesian underground economy. Thats the new offshore life. Oh and make sure when its cannon fodder time you and yours won't be available for recruitment.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

i gave you a green weenie up for your avitar only "half a bilion".

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

Who wants to live in a fascist society just to save a little on taxes?

Talk about greed.

Ass-hats.

http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2013/01/saturday_7.html

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:37 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

The question is who is going to have the cojones (or foolhardiness) big enough to do it as publicly as Depardieu did.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Many people claim to have spotted Steve Jobs alive and walking the streets in St. Petersburg.

And everyone knows Elvis has been living in Moscow for the last 12 years.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

St. Petersburg, is a great town.  Have done business with folks there for 20+ years.  Just don't call it "Leningrad".

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Former CIA directer Willian Casey, the Sha of Iran, Timothy McVey, and decendants of Emilia Earhart also went to Russia. Hillary tried to go but they wouldn't accept her. Instead she had a cerebral hemorage.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:55 | Link to Comment wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Depart-ieu better be careful...

He could end up like the billionaire Mikhail Khodorkovsky.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:37 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Russia and Europe ! That would be the ticket ...

We in the EU should be close partners with Russia and dump Nato and the American regime

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:39 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

ROFL, let me know how that works out for you. Russia is no friend to western-europe - just ask the eastern europeans.....

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:46 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Hhmm, I would argue that that may depend on whether or not there is a common enemy and how happy/unhappy those former soviet states are with their current leadership.  The russians won't pay for any welfare, but they would be all too happy to "clean the place up".

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

and said current leadership, just like Putin, are nothing but Soviets in a new suit. I have no love for NATO or the empire my government runs, but the Russians are as bad or worse. The Russians want their Soviet empire back too.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

The Russians want their Soviet empire back too.

Right. All states are predators by nature. We tend to notice the big predators, but the small ones would do the same if they could.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 02:47 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You just forgot all those eastern europeans were allies of Hitler - and many still would, today... Also, it wasn't Russia - and as everyone knows, Stalin was Georgian, ironically enough.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:40 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Russians are not stupid. Why would they want to pay for europe's defense and welfare bills?

No.  As Doug Casey has stated, europe will become a petting zoo. Chinese and Russians will go there to get their maids.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:45 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

A case can already be made that Europe is the world's largest museum...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:30 | Link to Comment frenchie
frenchie's picture

hm

funny

Céline wrote something close to that many years ago...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 21:13 | Link to Comment AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

I don't know about this, but I'd go long on Belgium's F&H.  If their FNAR 308 is an indicator, Russia has nothing on them.  Sweeter than a box of Belgian chocolates.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

I wonder if they will accept the trillion dollar platinum US coins?

http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/pennies-40-ton-trilli...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:20 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Wouldn't it be wiser for Russia to revalue its own platinum exports at $1 trillion per ounce? Of course the market wouldn't bear that price so the platinum coin plan would be seen for the scam that it is.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:42 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Russia has the backup to say FU to the US IRS. About 3000 megatons worth.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:53 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Exactly.

Its getting to the point I'd rather pay Boris for protection than be extorted by Timmy.

Prolly makes me a terrist or sumpin ;-)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Dugald
Dugald's picture

Pilgrim, your name has been added to the list....

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:11 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Wouldn't be my first choice for  nationality, but I don't need yet another.

Happy with just the three.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Happy with just the three.

You the man!

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:33 | Link to Comment Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Political power flows from the barrel of a gun (in these days an ICBM launcher).

-- Mao Zedong

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:50 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

I think PK is an excellent pick as Timmy's replacement.

Bring it down as quickly as possible so we can get down to the serious business of rebuilding.

 

I dont want to wait another 15 years while the "crisis" putters along. Lets get to ripping the bandaid off and pressing the reset button on everyone's bank accounts. Its going to happen anyway...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

France filed for bankruptcy by declaring war on Bismarck`s
Germany 1871, England and France upped their hopeless stake by threatening Germany with war in the Morocco crisis 1905/07. All the leftist parties were talking about imminent war among the imperialists, yet it took the proficient warmongers until 1914 to double cross the monarchies to get involved into a real shooting war .

By that measure, war is at least 10 years ahead and any
rebuilding after many resets hopefully this century. :-)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Either Switzerland realizes that they are ultimately screwing themselves by getting away from one of their core competences or someone else will step in to fill the vacuum.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Jreb
Jreb's picture

Should be Canada.

Pull out of the UN & Nato. Establish policy of ARMED neutrality, free trade with all - no foreign political alliances of any type.

Completely closed to all foreign governmental agencies of any kind but open border for tax and political refugees from the West and other places.

Productive immigrants only.

A rifle in every home, no national curreny or legal tender laws and a government so small and ineffectual it could never be a threat to anyone EVER again.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 02:53 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Including, and specially, organized crime... hmmm :)

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

My recent understanding is that Russia has been very aggresive about going after its own tax cheats.  Yes, their incomce tax rates are pretty low (I hear), but the lawlessness of the country (disclosure: never been there) would dissuade me from parking any large sums there.

It really looks like there are very few places to hide now.  Pick a place, and hold lots of gold...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:46 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Well, if discretionary banking were only available to non-citizens that would be the best of both worlds from the stste's perspective.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:55 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

Speaking from direct experience, Russian retail banking is a joke. Literally. They just do not grock banking stuff we take for granted.

 

Basically, you need to do everything from a local branch, and even then you have to find the right muppet that knows what to do.

Good luck trying a wire transfer, or pulling out a significant amount of money out at a time.

 

They really are not set up for actual banking...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:40 | Link to Comment Tango in the Blight
Tango in the Blight's picture

Be glad. They won't be able to steal your money as cleverly as US and European banks.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:55 | Link to Comment H4NK
H4NK's picture

Internet banking does exist in Russia and wire transfers work fine.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 03:40 | Link to Comment Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

My first visit to a Russian private bank in Vladivostok back in the late 90s was a real eye opener, all the guards had sub-machine guns!

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:49 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

I'd say the safest place is Mongolia.  Genghis Khan buried his massive gold hoard there and it still has not been found.

Plus, there's large swaths of open range land free of evil cellphone towers.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:34 | Link to Comment spekulatn
Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:51 | Link to Comment market le pew
market le pew's picture

And good luck opening a business there without local knowledge. Corruption is still a big problem.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:56 | Link to Comment H4NK
H4NK's picture

Where can you open a business without local knowledge?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Jeepers Creepers
Jeepers Creepers's picture

I agree, even though Russia has a low tax rate, so are the property taxes in Mexico, except for Gringos who get their houses seized and no one cares.  

Best bet it to claim poverty but have a safe full of gold and silver.

 

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:48 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Russia, the new America. Jobs, hot women, lots of land...

The only things left that Russia should adopt... : unrestricted gun ownership.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

Go watch some Russian dashcam videos....plus I dont think that V Putin is down with the purpose of the 2nd...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Jreb
Jreb's picture

I have been following RT a lot lately - stories seem very slanted towards more gun control for USA. They don't seem to get the source of the problem. I question their motives.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

You are not alone in your thinking about RT, Jreb.

Trust no mofos ;)

 

http://www.thedailybell.com/28447/Anthony-Wile-Elite-Neo-Nazis-Is-Russia...

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 03:57 | Link to Comment Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Since September 9, 2012 Americans can get three year multientry visas to Russia with a lot less paper work

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2012/09/197476.htm

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:49 | Link to Comment eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

The other boys on the block are starting to gang together to come after the big bully...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:53 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Russian flat tax 15%. Nice enticement until you try to make a withdrawal.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:03 | Link to Comment chubbar
chubbar's picture

You don't actually have to live in Russia OR have your money in Russia to take advantage of their tax rate. Just like you can live in the Bahama's, have your cash in Switzerland but still owe Uncle Sam his taxes. He will live where he is accepted as a Russian Citizen and probably bank in Switzerland but only pay the 15% tax rate back to Putin. Not a bad deal for Putin really.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

It actually is genius on Russia's part. Attract top talent with low taxes...kinda like Texas.

You could pull this off a couple ways:

Married to Russian citizen. They get paid, not US citizen

Form a company there

Etc...etc

 

Whats interesting is that Russian citizens can buy US assets (Miami apartments) without having to pay US taxes. I am not sure how US citizen that got money working in Russia could repatriate it or buy anything with their Rubles....

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Good post chubbar. +1   Assuming you have easy access/liquidity to your funds, that's a good way to go.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

I think back in 2011 Russia passed a law prohibiting the transfer banking data outside its borders.  Macau has the same I think.  Good luck dealing with Moscow and Beijing over this one.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment amusedobserver
amusedobserver's picture

Maybe the official transfer of bank data.  But as I understand it, the US has access to all SWIFT system data worldwide, so the US knows all the financial transactions worldwide anyway.

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

So?  Does Russia come across like the kind of place where they would turn down a suitcase?  Fuck the paper trail.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:09 | Link to Comment chubbar
chubbar's picture

A Swiss account with a debit/credit card won't come up on Swift. The transfer into the account would but the rest of the withdrawals will be below the radar and can take place anywhere in the world.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

What if they are not ON the SWIFT system, and the IRS ain't gonna collect a dime if you are in Russia,or a Roozkie citizen.

But, Putin's ultimate goal is rebuilding the Soviet Union, back to former glory,Corades!.

Plus they like China have made deals outside the USD.

Face it, Russia, and China are the Untouchables.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 15:58 | Link to Comment stant
stant's picture

nostrovia!! keep on grinin and drop that lenin

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:02 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

The Cayman Islands is a joke also.  I worked there for 2 years and the banks will roll over and reveal your bank info to the US on request.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment uno
uno's picture

Caribbean banks have the layers of fake businesses to hide the real owners, have to assume everyone in the beltway has accounts down there since it's not being publicaly hit like the swiss accounts

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

The Swiss got really screwed with all the internal data leaks.  Another plus for Russia:  You wouldn't want to pull of this spy/informant shit on the turf of the KGB guy.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Peterus
Peterus's picture

Putin to Hollande: And whos the socialist country now?

Hollande thinks that was a compliment, reembarks on his quest with more vigour and determination.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:15 | Link to Comment linrom
linrom's picture

And the next revolution is going to be where?

If you say Russia, you're one smart cookie.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

Nah, psyops is too busy with the Dot Indians

and with disarming the new genus of American subject

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment valkir
valkir's picture

Yes Kalrus,i have watched some dashcam videos from Russia,was fun.I also watched dashcam video from police car in Texas,cavity searches.Was not fun for me,at all.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

I understand why some here fantasize about tax havens, but the uber-wealthy will NEVER give up U.S. citizenship so long as they can control its fiscal and military policies for their financial gain.  Moreover, if the financial "collapse" many here predict occurs, it will start at the periphery and work its way in, not the other way around.  

Ergo, the safest place to be is in the Washington D.C. suburbs, not some South American country or remote island.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment Karlus
Karlus's picture

Disagree for a couple reasons:

1) foreigners with nooks know a couple of cities. DC and NYC are at the top.
2) when the crisis kicks off, bubba and his thousand 2nd ammendment friends will go thru that place like a buzzsaw. Nice highways lead right up to the interesting buildings
3) too far away from the food

If i was concerned about the SHTF and I was a Richer, someplace like Amarillo or even a suburb of Tulsa is a better place to hide

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

Russia's population is about 142 Million; the population drop about 7 M in the last decade. Western Europe has about 400 M.

If it wasn't for oil and NG no one would be talking about Russia.  Putin send a couple of ships to Syria and everyone go crazy. Putin knows how to keep himself in the news.

Meanwhile, Pakis and Indians are shooting at each other in Kashmir. One kill. But, that's old news, it happen yesterday.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:31 | Link to Comment linrom
linrom's picture

Where do Russians keep their money? Hint, not in Russia. Russia does not have an economy! The present emigration rates are higher than after the October Revolution. Look at all the neo-cons, they hold up this fascist state as am example of success.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Go east young man.  Flat tax and a fertility rate of 1.43.  I am surprised Putin hasn't started advertising yet.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:07 | Link to Comment H4NK
H4NK's picture

1.61 in Russia, 1.55 in China, 1.41 in Germany.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 18:44 | Link to Comment laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

In China's case they kinda force the low birth rate; having additional children beyond the first is fined, unless you and your spouse were both only children, in which case you are allowed to have 2 kids without being fined. I think the birth rate would climb pretty quickly if the government quit supressing it via fines and easy abortions over there. I know of at least two cases within my own family where a relative listened to official recommendations and got the abortion.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Dugald
Dugald's picture

ROFL, let me know how that works out for you. Russia is no friend to western-europe - just ask the eastern europeans....."

Yes indeed, put me in the picture also, please...

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:51 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

Yeah they are kinda pissed over nothing like let me see.  Napoleon invades, then there was this whole Crimean affair and guess what?  You know who sent Lenin to Russia to start the Bolshevik revolution and get Russia out of the war?  Why the Germans, go read up on the Brest-Litovsk treaty, and how much the communists handed over to the Germans.  Then there was that pesky World War two thing, but yeah.  It's the Russians who are not friendly to the West for no reason at all.  Maybe the West should start getting over their spoiled brat syndrome and starting to see things a bit more clearly?

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment b_thunder
b_thunder's picture

Before making any conclusions about Russia, google the following "William Browder", "Hermitage Capital", "Magnitsky case."  This is how tax collection is done in Russia.  Compare that to tax collection practice in the USA:  USA - you go to the offices of Jew, Jew, and half-Jew.  In Russia the process is what in the USA called "extraordianry rendition": you get raided by special police forces, get a black pillowcase placed on your head, and you're placed in a special jail feared by even most brazen criminals. And your lawyer?  Oh, yes, your lawyer!  He's in the same jail, but in a different cell block. 

The second thing you need to know that unless you're a part of a small circle known as "the family" or one of the old-time comrades from the days of old KGB, you can be arrested and the amount of tax you'll be alleged to owe will be completely arbitrary.

Third, a $30 oil price drop (inevitably causing nat gas price drop) will bust Russia's budget

Fourth, when a russina bank where you have your $$ proves to be a scam, a fraud and a ponzi, the Central bank of Russia won't bail you out.

Fifth, it was US Federal Reserve that saved Russian banking system from complete destruction by loaning $500Billion  to them in the fall of 2008 through "interbank currency swaps."  Are they goign to save the Russkies once more? 

Sixth, there's probably a very good reason that jsut about every russian person of high net worth has a foreign passport, or a permanent residency status in at least one western country. 

 

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment linrom
linrom's picture

You mean like Goldstein, Cohen and William Bancroft III

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 17:38 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Hmmm, who will be fairer to the average Joe, Eric Holder and Janet Napolitano, or Vladmir Putin?

 

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