Guest Post: Guns, Like Washing Machines, Don't Act - People Do

Tyler Durden's picture

Via James E. Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada,

Reprinted from the Middletown Press and Journal

In the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the usual cadre of politicians, pundits and commentators are hitting the airwaves and condemning believers of the “guns don’t kill” rationale. This exercise in demonization is being followed with pleas to strip Americans of their guns and place a ban on vaguely-defined “assault” weapons.

What’s been lacking in the flurry of proposals that inevitably followed a catastrophe like Sandy Hook has been a deeper look at the kind of environment impressionable minds are coming of age in. Far too often, politically-minded observers fall back on reactionary emotion for the solution to problems without actually engaging in critical thinking as to the root of what they are trying to solve.

As Southwestern University School of Law professor Butler Shaffer put it, we tend to focus too much “attention on the consequences of our behavior” instead of the “casual factors, as the thinking that produces dysfunctional results.”

We then end up looking to government to solve problems which it has a hand in creating. Many pro-gun control advocates are quick to mention that there is little gun violence in countries with “reasonable” gun laws in place. Yet as economist Thomas Sowell points out, countries with stricter gun control laws such as Mexico, Brazil and Russia all have higher murder rates than the U.S. When you compare Switzerland to Germany, where the former has higher rates of gun ownership than the latter, Switzerland has a lower murder rate.

The difficulty with using the empirical method to explain human phenomena is that it ignores the complexity of mankind. Data can be cherry-picked to prove any conclusion. Logic and reason are the best tools to make sense of a tragedy such as a school shooting. And the fact remains that government bans never prevent said goods from reaching the public. More often than not, good people abide by the prohibition while the more criminally inclined ignore the law.

The truth is we will never really know what compelled a young man to take the life of his mother, her coworkers and the children of Sandy Hook Elementary. There are discernable factors that may have played a significant role, however.

Our country’s empathetic response to the ongoing wars that result in the deaths of innocent women and children has certainly resulted in the dehumanizing of fatal violence. The press’s ignoring, and outright covering up, of the human victims (often called “collateral damage”) of the War on Terror has had an immeasurable impact on how today’s society views the loss of life.

When the Washington Post ran a photo of 2-year-old Ali Hussein being lifted from the rubble of his home in Baghdad after an American air strike in 2008, some wrote to the paper and complained that the picture would undermine the war effort. The fact that the child was stripped of a life that was fully ahead of him was lost on most Americans.

There also is the increased use of psychotropic pharmaceuticals that have been shown to induce suicidal and violent tendencies. These drugs were used by the shooter in Connecticut, the shooter in Aurora, Col., and one of the Columbine High School assailants.

The politically-connected pharmaceutical industry, in cahoots with the equally connected medical industry, cashes in by peddling these government-approved narcotics. While correlation doesn’t automatically mean causation, none of these points have been highlighted by a media establishment that would rather make quick judgments instead of taking the time to examine what has become the new “normal” American life.

Those who decry “the guns don’t kill people” line aren’t acknowledging reality. Guns are inanimate objects. They lack free will and consciousness. To say that a gun kills a person is to say that couches, shoes and washing machines can kill people.

In short, guns don’t act – people do. The same goes for television shows, movies and video games with violent content. They are objects that are valued by the minds of the public. Why so many in our society are drawn to violence is worth asking because the Sandy Hook shooting was but another extension of this fascination.

My father often shares with me an anecdote about a classmate who brought a rifle to his high school speech class to demonstrate how to properly clean a firearm. This was in the blue-collar city of Emmaus, and nobody felt unsafe in the presence of a student brandishing a functioning weapon. The question is; what has changed in the decades since the late 1960s? It certainly can’t be access to guns since they were just as widely available back then, if not more.

Eighteenth-century British statesman Edmund Burke once wrote that “the nature of man is intricate; the objects of society are of the greatest possible complexity” and that the simplicity often displayed in hasty political action is “grossly ignorant.” It’s disappointing, but not unexpected, to witness another intellectual mob calling for prohibition of the one tool that holds tyranny at bay.

Common sense says that disarming law-abiding citizens will make them more susceptible to harm. But in the aftermath of a tragedy such as Sandy Hook, rational thought is tossed aside in favor of short run solutions.

What must be considered is why some individuals are so drawn to violence, what effect has the increased prescription rate of antidepressants had, and why casualties in war have become so dehumanized. There is an uncomfortable but common denominator in all these factors.

I would hope anti-gun zealots notice it before they ramp up their War on Firearms.

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DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Guns don't buy bullets, people do!

ball-and-chain's picture

I'm all for the 2nd ammendment.

But let's tell the truth.

Guns kill people.  Washing machines don't.

Guns are very deadly when given to crazy people.

I'm not for changing the law.

But why lie to ourselves?

rehypothecator's picture

Guns don't kill people - people using guns, and also not using guns, kill people.  Crazy people are deadly when they have guns, but many are also deadly when not given guns.  Governments are sometimes really, really deadly to their own citizens, especially when said governments first remove guns from said citizens.  

aka Gil's picture

Well said. Crazy people (including governments) commit murder. Self defense is righteous killing.

TwoShortPlanks's picture

@ the thread

Almost anything can be used as a weapon, but here's the ugly truth.

That WMD called the United States Of America, the runaway Psychopaths in Government, Banking and Finance, the Corporations born from it, as well as the twisted and spun Draconian Ideologies it uses to legitimise and wage endless aggression through the Military Industrial Complex, Intelligence Agencies, MSM, and Financial centres, around the globe, make guns look like fucking Lego.

Since WWI the US has been used as both a parasitic host and global henchman in one, but the financial wounds brought about from this abuse are great. That aggression (fear actually) is now turning inward as a protective stance and to reduce its capacity to wage war below a specific level and to bring financial dependence. This is to permit subservience to the UN on both governance and policy (foreign and domestic)...from contracted freelance henchman to subservient soldier…from free hunter to slave farmer.

Let's face it, while you were being told to salute to the flag you were getting knifed in the back, by the same people. These people in turn are only puppets; doing the bidding of centuries old unseen masters in exchange for high to obscene standards of're shooting in the dark.

I say, keep your guns; you're going to need them...probably soon by the look of things.

If the conversation is about the aspects of firearm weapons which are troublesome, it's quite simple, they are;
1. Accessibility
2. User knowledge and training
3. Capacity (ammunition)
4. Capability (damage-wise)
5. Concealability
6. Intent

Unless you can define your argument, then saying guns kill people, or, people kill people is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg....both come together....common dog fuck a 5yo can understand!

macholatte's picture



Far too often, politically-minded observers fall back on reactionary emotion for the solution to problems without actually engaging in critical thinking as to the root of what they are trying to solve.


I disagree. Emotion is what rules public opinion and not logic or facts. The Propaganda Machine is guided by critical thinkers. How else could people be convinced that a disgusting addiction like smoking is sexy?  

$16T debt => not important.

Free cell phone => vote for Obama.



It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion.
Joseph Goebbels



AldousHuxley's picture

Gun right in 1800s didn't include semiautomatics

But it is the poor always getting killed and argueing for guns as rich use others to do the shooting

M4570D0N's picture

The fuck does this nonsensical drivel even mean?

Bendromeda Strain's picture

You didn't know? Feinstein has a 1.21 Gigawatt DeLorean, and went back to get the Gatling gun off the streets. 

nmewn's picture

Its not the gun.

Its time to "go there"...

  1. Huntsville, Alabama – February 5, 2010: 15-year-old Hammad Memon shot and killed another Discover Middle School student Todd Brown. Memon had a history for being treated for ADHD and depression. He was taking the antidepressant Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.” He had been seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist.
  2. Kauhajoki, Finland – September 23, 2008: 22-year-old culinary student Matti Saari shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine. He was also seeing a psychologist.
  3. Dekalb, Illinois – February 14, 2008: 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amount of Xanax in his system. He had been seeing a psychiatrist.
  4. Jokela, Finland – November 7, 2007: 18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School in southern Finland, then committed suicide.
  5. Cleveland, Ohio – October 10, 2007: 14-year-old Asa Coon stormed through his school with a gun in each hand, shooting and wounding four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon had been placed on the antidepressant Trazodone.
  6. Red Lake, Minnesota – March 2005: 16-year-old Jeff Weise, on Prozac, shot and killed his grandparents, then went to his school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation where he shot dead 7 students and a teacher, and wounded 7 before killing himself.
  7. Greenbush, New York – February 2004: 16-year-old Jon Romano strolled into his high school in east Greenbush and opened fire with a shotgun. Special education teacher Michael Bennett was hit in the leg. Romano had been taking “medication for depression”. He had previously seen a psychiatrist.
  8. Wahluke, Washington – April 10, 2001: Sixteen-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage. He had been taking the antidepressant Effexor.
  9. El Cajon, California – March 22, 2001: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, on the antidepressants Celexa and Effexor, opened fire on his classmates, wounding three students and two teachers at Granite Hills High School. He had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.
  10. Williamsport, Pennsylvania – March 7, 2001: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was taking the antidepressant Prozac when she shot at fellow students, wounding one.
  11. Conyers, Georgia – May 20, 1999: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with the stimulant Ritalin when he opened fire on and wounded six of his classmates.
  12. Columbine, Colorado – April 20, 1999: 18-year-old Eric Harris and his accomplice, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 26 others before killing themselves. Harris was on the antidepressant Luvox. Klebold’s medical records remain sealed. Both shooters had been in anger-management classes and had undergone counseling. Harris had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.
  13. Notus, Idaho – April 16, 1999: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school, narrowly missing students. He was taking a prescribed SSRI antidepressant and Ritalin.
  14. Springfield, Oregon – May 21, 1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 25. Kinkel had been taking the antidepressant Prozac. Kinkel had been attending “anger control classes” and was under the care of a psychologist.
Harlequin001's picture

Thing is where I live there is near zero possibility of anyone walking into school and shooting my kids. Because they (guns) are banned.

I like that.

CaptainObvious's picture

Guns are banned in the UK too, but they still had 35 gun murders last year.  The authorities cannot possibly search everyone and everything.  The criminals will always find a way to get weaponry that they aren't supposed to have.

Ghordius's picture

"tightly controlled" is not exactly banned. for some weapons I shop there, excellent weaponsmith tradition

economics9698's picture

Just give me enough money to get some more 7.62x54 rounds please.

Badabing's picture

AldousHuxley said:

“Gun right in 1800s didn't include semiautomatics”

Man you got all the right buzz words and used them just like the MSM, are you reading from a teleprompter?

The term “gun right” is not in the 2nd amendment.

It’s the right to possess arms and form a militia.

Arms is a general word, it’s that way for a reason, so that “we the people” can stop our government that has been taken over and defend ourselves against standing armies using slingshots or ICBMs to accomplish that “for the people”.

And second the word “semiautomatics”, a semiautomatic is a firearm that can load more than one round BUT only fires one round at a time when the trigger is pulled. A revolver is a semiautomatic.

 The MSM loves to through in the word semiautomatics because it gets confused with automatic by uninformed ass holes like you. The safety on an automatic weapon like a Colt M16 has only 3 positions safe, semi, and auto, but you think its safe, auto, and auto     


americhinaman's picture

i grew up in america as a skinny, sickly, nerdy, ethnic chinese kid with braces and glasses.  4-eyes, brace-face, chink, etc.  it didn't help in the eyes of 90% of my classmates that that i was american, born and raised.  i was made fun of and beaten up a lot, until i grew taller and worked out enough to get up to a defensible size.  i still remember very vividly in earlier years, thinking that if i had a gun i would kill all the bullies who had made fun of me or beaten me up.  fortunately for me, my family believed in NOT having guns.

americans are racist, supremacist, and discriminate in every way... especially kids.  i would bet that 95% of these horrific public mass murders (especially at schools) are committed by kids who had been severely mistreated by their former classmates.  i wish these mistreated kids did not have access to guns, and instead were able to channel their frustration/sadness/hurt in a more constructive way. 

but unfortunately, when you combine the extremely cruel american school bullies with a universal availability of guns, the result is that the mentally and physically abused children using gun violence to carry out retribution and to end their own miserable existences.  guns do kill people in the wrong environment, and american schools are exactly that wrong environment.

Teamtc321's picture

Wake up. Loon's only target shcool's that are "Gun Free Zones."No one can shoot back until kid's are dead.


Comment to your post, the Nerd's won't charge into a school where they will get punched in the eye or in the above case, shot in the eye. 

Fucking idiot.


FEDbuster's picture

I own guns.  I am a card carrying member of Gun Owners of America.  I like to think of myself as a Three Percenter.  That being said, guns and bullets are designed to kill animals and people.  A gun can be used against people in both offensive or defensive manner. 

Criminals and psychos tend to use guns in an offensive manner, which is why they are not allowed to own firearms under current gun laws.  The problem is criminals and psychos tend to ignore the law.

Law abiding citizens use guns for self-defense (against criminals, psychos and tyrants) and for sporting purposes like hunting and target shooting.

You cannot justify the disarming of the vast majority of law abiding citizens in a vain attempt to curb the violent behavior of criminals and pyschos.  Tyrants may try, but freemen will resists.

"Whenever the Legislators endeavor to take away, and destroy the Property of the People, or to reduce them to Slavery under Arbitrary Power, they put themselves into a state of War with the People, who are thereupon absolved from any farther Obedience, and are left to the common Refuge, which God hath provided for all Men, against Force and Violence. Whensoever therefore the Legislative shall transgress this fundamental Rule of Society, and either by Ambition, Fear, Folly or Corruption, endeavor to grasp themselves, or put into the hands of any other an Absolute Power over the Lives, Liberties, and Estates of the People; By this breach of Trust they forfeit the Power the People had put into their hands, for quite contrary ends, and it devolves to the People, who have a Right to resume their original Liberty."  John Locke

"Any single man must judge for himself whether circumstances warrant obedience or resistance to the commands of the civil magistrate; we are all qualified, entitled, and morally obliged to evaluate the conduct of our rulers. This political judgment, moreover, is not simply or primarily a right, but like self-preservation, a duty to God. As such it is a judgment that men cannot part with according to the God of Nature. It is the first and foremost of our inalienable rights without which we can preserve no other."  John Locke

Race Car Driver's picture

I junked ya for bein' a crybaby. You might even be gay, I dunno.

Badabing's picture


I can relate,

I also was the first born in America from immigrants.

My parents spoke very little English and had a very thick accent. That accent was reflected in the way I pronounced words, I was skinny had glasses bucktoothed but couldn’t afford braces until later in life. And yes, I was picked on in school by bullies. But where we differ is my family owned guns and that was one of the reasons my family immigrated. And yes I wanted revenge but morals and good upbringing kept me from doing anything foolish.  

Jreb's picture

And the key is... parents doing the right thing and actually parenting. Instilling values and mentoring is the key to keeping kids out of shit and the psych ward.

So simple but lost on so many.

BTW - I am a white guy who had the absolute shit kicked out of him by a bunch of non white teenagers when he was a kid becasue his skin was the wrong color and he was too dumb to know that whtiey shouldn't walk into certain places in town. My parents - having taught me that you judge people by the "content of their character" and not the color of their skin - failed to mention that others might not think the same way. I learned a lot that day but never developed the "urge" to run out and hurt other people. Sad that some minds are so weak.

Cry me a river china boy - we all live in our own sweet hell.

americhinaman's picture

So you never thought of revenge or the "urge" to hurt those who beat you?  That seems doubtful to me; Great parenting doesn't take away the human urge for revenge, particularly in a child's mind.  My guess is that you never received a proper beating, and it sounds like you could avoid certain places in town after your bad experience.

Anyways, I believe many of the kids who go crazy have taken abuse both at school and home... the Sandy Hook killer also killed his mother, if I recall correctly.  That suggests that after being abused at school, his mother piled it on at home.  If I'm right, then I don't believe anyone would have a "strong mind" enough so to overcome that situation. 

I have been bloodied, broken, and knocked unconscious, but never shed a tear on account of beatings except once after waking up in a hospital.  I was not crying about my personal situation.  I was explaining why school gun massacres happen so frequently in the US, and why they will continue to happen.

americhinaman's picture

Have you been beaten to the point of being sent to a hospital, severely bloodied, broken ribs, sprained spine, broken facial bones, in plain view of teachers who told police they didn't see anything despite watching with fascination how badly you could be injured?  Was the mental abuse you took anywhere close to that?  I would not count on most children to be able to fall back to family values in situations like that, and unfortunately I know that such experiences are fairly common in America's schools.

I would bet that most school gun violence involves children who had similar experiences at ages before morals and reasoning dominated their thinking.  Your point is valid too; when comparing these kids' access to guns vs. the steadfastness of their morals in the face of abuse, the easy access to guns and violent revenge is often stronger than whatever morals they have been able to pick up by then.

Point is, If there are guns available to children who experience severe abuse at the hands of classmates and teachers, then it opens up a world of violent possibilities, and it's this toxic combination of abuse and gun availability (and morals that are overridden by beatings and humilation) that leads to gun massacres at American schools.  Without such easy access to guns, abused schoolchildren would not be able to go on killing rampages so easily.

Citxmech's picture

I wonder how many potential bullies think about Columbine and take pause before harassing a potential victim?

Overfed's picture

Fuck you, americhinaman. I got picked on in grade school due to being small for my age. I've had my own gun in my room, with ammo, since I was 8 years old. I never once thought of taking it to school and shooting a bully.

Freddie's picture

If you grew up in China during the Cultural Revolution in the 1960s or 1970s - you would probably be dead.  30 million people were killed by the govt.    If you lived in Cambodia during 1975 to 1979 you probably would have also been murdered by the government.   Pol Pot killed about 1.5 million of his "people." These poor Asian serfs were disarmed.

Oh and please save me about this Americans are racist bullshit.  You Asians are among the biggest racist arseholes in the world because you have been killing each other for thousands of years.  The Chinese hate the Japanese and the Koreans hate the Japanese and the Cambodians and Vietnamese are too dark skinned.  The Koreans are smarter than the Chinese and the bullshit is endless.  The Chinese are compulsive gamblers and the Japanese think they are superior. You people have been at this shit forever and it never stops. 

Go to any Asian message board and all of these people hate each other.  You all hate each other and are basically the same people.

Everybody in high school gets bullied.  You should have learned kung fu or something dumbass.  Kid on powerful mind altering drugs is the common thread in these shootings along with violent video games and movies.

crshinn's picture

A revolver is not a semiautomatic.  Semiautomatic refers to the automatic reloading mechanism where when you fire a round the mechanism automatically ejects the spent casing and reloads another round from the magazine.  Semiautomatic has absolutely nothing to do with firing rate as typically stated or insinuated in the MSM (one pull of the trigger=one bullet fired).

DosZap's picture


A revolver is not a semiautomatic.

So true, however the NEW legislation declares they ARE semi automatics.

The end of the story is about CONTROL.

They even want to Ban shotguns, (PUMP shotguns).

Anyone with a Right Mind, knows EXACTLY where this is headed and why.

Harlequin001's picture

And those that can't get one can make their own as the IRA did in Northern Ireland. Point is that if I want a weapon, if I am desperate enough I can make one, in my garage or my front room if I need to and so can anyone else. But why would you go to all that trouble if you didn't absolutely need to? The instant you pulled out your home made pistol or your designer SMG made from angle iron and steel pipe everyone would fall about laughing UNLESS of course you intended to use it.

There is no good reason why any and every idiot should have an absolute right to a gun in a peaceful society.

Fact is I choose to live in an environment wher I don't need any weapons in the full knowledge that ity would take me maybe two days tops to build my own handgun if I needed to.

frankly I would rather no body else in my vicinity had access to guns either.

espirit's picture


How did you get on the internet while being housed by the Department of Corrections?

Harlequin001's picture

Yeah, bet you thought you could only shoot bullets from guns didn't you...

Think again.

taxpayer102's picture



harlequin "has many attributes of the clown with the addition of mischievious intrigue".  On ZH he's a troll.

Harlequin001's picture

a troll being defined as anyone who doesn't agree with the general ZH opinion, eh...

Nice to be noticed though...

Stoploss's picture

Answer me this: 

What is it with the European women and the TEXAS cock?

Big money offers coming for real men is the talk of the town lately.

Harlequin001's picture

I think they like bigger ones...

Lloydie's picture

Yeah versus the 12 thousand fucking gun deaths in the US moron.

Stoploss's picture

How abaout a flame thrower....   Cleaner for you?



Harlequin001's picture

Well it would certainly get rid of the leftover goo.

CH1's picture


Thank you.

nmewn's picture

Theres more C...many more, I'm just gettin cranked up ;-)

I don't think I duplicated any, if I did, scratch em...

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) - school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School - then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

monoloco's picture

The least we can do is arm the children so they can protect themselves from drug adled pschopaths.

bentaxle's picture

Add, "Dunblane massacre" to the list at a School in the Scottish town in 1996. Interestingly Tennis star Andy Murray happened to be an 8 year old pupil there at the time.

But hey, it's not guns that kill people, it's the bullets! Lead is also responsible for making people crazy. There's a distinct correlation between a reduction in crime and a reduction in people's exposure to lead! I say let people have guns.....just don't give 'em any lead bullets!

carlnpa's picture

This report is the dirt from the drug industry itself, compiled for NIH on the link between SSRI, suicide, agression, hostility.


22 Appendix XV: Results of random-effects models .............................................. 125

23 Appendix XVI: Stratification of worsening (outcome 6) by premature

discontinuation................................................................................................................ 127

24 Appendix XVII: Treatment-emergent hostility or agitation............................... 128

24.1 Frequency of treatment emergent hostility or agitation by drug, indication, and

trial 128

25 Appendix XVIII: Stratification of the primary outcome (outcome 3) by history of

suicide attempt at baseline .............................................................................................. 130


trav777's picture

why do you cite FOURTEEN murders out of 100,000?!?!

WTF is the matter with you people?

nmewn's picture

Some of us have to work, dumbass...look up, I put some more up for you.

Or would you like me to clog up the entire thread?

Most murders are done by criminals killing criminals...idiot...whether with a gun or not.

FeralSerf's picture

"Science" of Psychiatry predominately Jooze (Freud, et al).  Pharmaceutical industry bosses predominately Jooze.

It's a Brave New World we live in.

"Community, Identity, Stability" is the motto of Aldous Huxley's utopian World State. Here everyone consumes daily grams of soma, to fight depression, babies are born in laboratories, and the most popular form of entertainment is a "Feelie," a movie that stimulates the senses of sight, hearing, and touch. Though there is no violence and everyone is provided for, . . ."

Ace Ventura's picture

Gun rights in the 1800s (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) are the same as they are today. It purposely makes no inclusion/exclusion references of any kind:

"....the right of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms, shall NOT be infringed."


Harlequin001's picture

I'm trying to think of a good reason why they shouldn't have access to nuclear weapons.

No, keeps coming back to the same reason why they shouldn't have guns either.

CaptainObvious's picture

No, no, no.  The problem is not the weaponry, the problem is that these people that snap and go off killing innocents are walking around with the rest of us.  Lock 'em the fuck up in an institution somewhere and bury the fucking key in the ruins of Fukushima.  And if they kill?  That's what the death penalty is for...not for "deterrence", but to prevent murderous individuals from ever taking another life.  Most of us have access to items that could be used to kill someone, but most of us don't go out and kill people for shits and giggles.  Take the real danger out of the equation...the people that harm other people, and not the items that people use to harm other people.