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US Mint Sells Massive 3.9 Million Ounces Of Silver Coins In First Few Days Of 2013, Triple December's Total

Tyler Durden's picture


Just a few days ago we noted the massive surge in physical gold coin sales from the US Mint, with silver surprisingly lagging. Today, we see an even more dramatic surge in the sales of physical Silver Coins in the first week of January, which in a few short days hit 3.94 million oz, already surpassing the entire December total of 1.64 million ounces. It seems that the paper-to-physical currency rotation is gathering pace even as, or thanks to the trillion dollar platinum coin mercifully ending its 15 minutes of page-clicking, ad revenue infamy. In the secondary market, inventories (via APMEX) of Silver coins remain negligible, if any: American Eagles are available as follows: 2013s may be available 1/18, maybe not; 2012 - 0; 2011 - 0; 2010 - 0; 2009 - 0; 2008 - 0; 2007 - 0; 2006 - 0; 2005 - 0; 2004 - 0; 2003 - 0; 2002 - 0. They do have some 2000, 2001 and 2007, all about $5-6 over spot! It seems ever more people are getting nervous about the impact of currency wars on their "money"... or perhaps just want to make Silver shirts to attract the females?




(h/t Alex Gloy)


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Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:36 | 3133983 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Game on!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:41 | 3134007 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Arnt January sales typically an anomolly?

Dec production is halted early to start the next years production and all that demand is with held till Jan.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:44 | 3134019 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

+1 - dealers also buy the new year in bulk to sell to collectors.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:47 | 3134035 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

BS99 I don't care if its up, down, fundamentals, TA, T&A, rulers, droolers, slooshing or sloshing, charts, farts, and the lunar cycle, my call is wildly bullish at $90/oz in April and I'm sticking to it.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:55 | 3134057 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

not making the bear case just saying that plad has a valid point. good for you, think for yourself. when i feel strongly about something it doesn't matter if everyone in the whole world disagrees.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:06 | 3134095 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Plad always has valid points.

I couldn't even classify myself as a bull REALLY.  I'm chin-deep in the silver pumper road to roota propaganda continuum, and I really believe that every fourth interview on KWN is the most important I'll ever read, and I'm this close to buying a fuckin GATA shirt, and I hear James Turk's voice in my head when I read his output, and I imagine swapping cookie recipes with Jim Sinclair, and I don't have a pot to piss in, but I don't care, it's so shiny, my precious, my birthday presentses, give us $90/oz you fat angry hobbitses, yesssss....?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:24 | 3134139 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I bought gold today.  While at the shop, a guy walks in and bought 25 ROLLS (500 oz) of Silver Eagles (not 2013 I presume), was counting his cash out as I was leaving...

O/T but not much!  I tried buying some 7.62 * 39, the range (a new place I had never been tp before) only sold me two boxes.  AK ammo is low in stock!  Another customer (down from KY) said there was NONE in his home state...


Gun range gave me a 1935 (stained & ratty, but no tears) $1.00 Silver Certificate in change.  Rocky, anyone: how much would that be worth?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:27 | 3134149 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

ammo is supposed to start coming in mid-Jan-keep an eye on your favorite seller

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:34 | 3134174 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

I began loading my own ammo (and for my neighbors) years ago, and have a crap ton of parts for more on hand, so this (temporary?  Or mandated?) shortage really is a laugh for us.

What is more concerning right now (or will be) is that it seems everyone is out of primers too.  And I mean 0 in stock, no backorders.  I have "enough" but...that's one thing I'd hate to try to make myself.

Brass seems available, but price has been going up for a long time now.  Bullets ditto.  But I can also cast my own for low performance rounds like 7.62x39 or pistols, and I have tons of lead alloy.

I know a wholesale ammo maker on G+ - I'll ask her what the story is and get a straight answer I'm pretty sure.  She might be less sold out than the biggies, it's just a 3 person startup that sells mostly to police, etc, in bulk. 



Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:38 | 3134185 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Start melting down pennies.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:07 | 3134266 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Primers contain fulminate of mercury, or so I've been told.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:56 | 3134395 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

Maybe the enterprising home chemist can figure out how to refine the stuff out from boxes of party-snaps.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:50 | 3134518 bobola
bobola's picture

I stockpile bike parts for my 5 working commuter bicycles.

For some reason this seems very important to me.


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:04 | 3134540 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Maybe folks are thinking this may be the last year they will be minted . . .

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 02:07 | 3135395 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture


The AP's always mass order any new releases of bullion coins from the US Mint, so they can rush them to NGC and PCGS to get the "First Strike" designation, which results in higher premiums charged to the masses when they flip them.

High January bullion sales in recent years are caused by this phenomenon.

Don't worry there's still plenty of silver bullion out there at low premiums:


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:34 | 3134589 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

I hope that includes 26" and 700C rubber inner-tubes.  Store them vacuum sealed and away from UV.  Talk about a kick-ass barter item, at some point...

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:23 | 3134709 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Bingo! I was just thinking about this last night. Still have a crapload of these left over from my racing days.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:11 | 3134554 SILVERGEDDON

Black powder rifles as flintlocks need nothing but black powder, and lead. Think farther out than primers  - get your inner Boy Scout on !!!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:36 | 3134750 flash338
flash338's picture

Try out bow making. Rocks and sticks are easy enough to come by.

"Traditional Bowyer's Bible" Vol 1 - 4

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:32 | 3135036 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

1-.50 Hawken= 1 NATO stooge+AR+Ammo +spare army stuff.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:25 | 3134578 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

I don't know about explosives, but being in the chemistry community I know that every chemical that could be used to make meth requires special permits to order. That rule started due to a bust where some grad students were manufacturing meth using lab equipment, and were busted becuase of the 45 kg sacks of reagent they ordered. Since no one ever orders that much in one order let alone repeatedly, the mailman figured it out.

Also, in very recent history the DHS started requiring nitric acid to be stored separately from all other acids in research labs, to make inspections easier. By extension, I think that most of the more explosive chemicals are all tracked, and it's one reason why more than half of a typical research grant is eaten up in overhead, as multiple university departments exist to handle regulatory compliance.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:04 | 3134661 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

    every chemical that could be used to make meth requires special permits to order

If you want to work in industrial-sized batches, yes, but the common biker-crank formula remains within reach of anyone who wants to do small cooks for personal use.

There are sources for smaller quantities of nitric acid (or fuming, even better) which are fairly easy to procure from, but you have to get to know the right people.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:11 | 3134992 laboratorymike
laboratorymike's picture

Regarding reagents, it's more like any quantity now, if you order in the normal market.

For the black market, I know that people can do it, and one characteristic problem with meth houses is that the main solvent is gasoline, and there usually isn't any vaporization equipment/very little used when distilling it off, making for a huge fire hazard. My mother did some volunteer work with the county DFACS, and there's a characteristic gasoline/mothball smell that gives it away, that and that sometimes the house is gone a few weeks later.

That's my main concern. A gun ban will create a new black market, be totally ineffective at its stated goal of stopping gun violence, and momre people will be hurt or killed in accidents trying to make their own gunpowder. But we all know that public safety was never the goal anyway.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 03:26 | 3135527 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

Secret Sam have you heard of indestructible Sam by Buck 65?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:24 | 3135023 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Party snaps use silver fulminate. EXTREMELY sensitive.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:33 | 3135038 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

FUCKIN' SILVER!!1!!eleven!!1

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:23 | 3134576 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I don't think the non-corrosive primers that are commonly manufactured today have any mercury in them.   Some old military ammo may have mercuric primers though.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:23 | 3135021 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Lead styphnate.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:09 | 3134423 unrulian
unrulian's picture

x39 was everywhere last year in Canada i order mine online, pretty spotty now most large dealers are sold out but you can still find it...i'm going to look into primers asap

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:18 | 3134567 SILVERGEDDON

" But - but - but - it only takes five silver dollars post collapse to dig that bullet out of my ass ! "

Million Dollar Bonus, Post Zombie Apocalypse. 

Yep, we had the B.C. era, then the A.D. era.

Time for the P.Z.A. era.

Try banning that shit, POTB. 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:31 | 3134160 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

I believe your silver certificate is worth..umm... one buck, if you spend it fast.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:38 | 3134184 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

re Silver Certificate - not knowing if 1935 is a 'collectors' year but otherwise it'd be worth $2 approx.

Ammo at WalMart (SoCal) is 'bare shelves'

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:59 | 3134530 devo
devo's picture

They're collectible, and so are $2 bills now. Check the prices on eBay...these things are skyrocketing

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:40 | 3134190 Top_Kill
Top_Kill's picture

2012 January sales were over 6 million. The predictive value of this is, unfortunatley, 0.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:36 | 3134593 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture


Says here anywhere from $3 - $16, mint condition is about $46.

Reference link:

Hope that is helpful.


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:13 | 3134689 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

1935H in crappy condition, my guess would be $1.50 having looked at eBay. $1.50 tops. THANK ALL OF YOU ABOVE!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:19 | 3134704 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

ot, do chen: just read your antifragile blog post.   good stuff, very thought provoking.    

"The System does NOT care about you, it only cares about itself!"

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:50 | 3135239 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I can't get diddly for a worn silver cert these days since they are just an old musty dollar. 

No silver swap allowed!  That makes them worth a dollar over the counter, but a few have some numismatic value.  However, the same old real estate rule holds true:  Condition, condition, condition.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:29 | 3134727 Nage42
Nage42's picture

All the ammo manufacturers had to retask their production lines to fill the DHS orders, no?


Can't be a good thing when your government is orders of magnitude the biggest sudden buyer of hollow-point ammo, "for target practice..."


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:12 | 3134986 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

7.62X39 on line, box of 20 on sale at Cabelas, $7, good stock supply

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:53 | 3134228 Au
Au's picture

Hey, you made me spill my coffee. That routine is worth taking on the road!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:11 | 3134271 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Thanks, I'm here all week long. Every week nowadays. 

Seriously, the abuse to the price of physical takes a mental toll on a stacker, it does, and the reality is that I'm neither bull nor bear, because I don't trade or traffic, I collect and wait. Lots of wait-ers around here, so many that I feel comfortable having the occasional breakdown amongst like minds.

It hurts that I can't bring up the natural questions that gold and silver raise in regards to the definition of "money" and "asset" and "wealth" at the family table, because I've always been the "unbelievable one" to begin with.  To the point, a lot of the PM thinkers and doers out there come across so strongly to the contrarian side that I'm sucked in. 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:32 | 3134741 Nage42
Nage42's picture

Well, the other aspect is that you really don't want to be an evangelist in any public sense about PMs... that's the wrong kind of attention from the zombies when they realize "Winter is coming."

But you know that...  :D


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:48 | 3134509 toothpicker
toothpicker's picture

I hear Marc Faber's voice in my head. 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:58 | 3134649 cosmyccowboy
cosmyccowboy's picture

hahahahahah.... me2!!!!!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:26 | 3134147 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

there are currently no eagles on ebays first fifty...anybody who checks in with ebay knows the eagles dominate the whats up with eagles

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:31 | 3134159 negative rates
negative rates's picture

You need old money today, since ain't nobody knows what time it is anyhoos!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:02 | 3134410 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Aydin Has some 2012 Eagles listed.  Not sure what is up as all they had a few days ago was silver maple leaf.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 22:41 | 3134930 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

My coin shop charged me a higher premium for my last order, too, and has been very low on stock the last couple times I've been in.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:28 | 3134153 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

I went to and kyped this info to flesh this thread out, some.  Figures are for 2012 calandar year.

December sales of one-ounce American Eagle silver coins totaled 1,635,000, marking a drop of 48.3% from November and a decline of 18.6% from December 2011. The comparisons are skewed, however, since the 2012 dated issue sold out on Dec. 17, 2012.

Annual sales ended at 33,742,500 for the third highest total in the Silver Eagle’s 26-year history. Stronger years were in 2011 at 39,868,500 and in 2010 at 34,662,500. Sales last year were poised for second place until the sellout occurred.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:26 | 3134717 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

I wonder who bought the other 1.9 million?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:45 | 3135220 fourchan
fourchan's picture


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:53 | 3134048 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Wait till they release the Platinum sales....

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:54 | 3134052 Snakeeyes
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:57 | 3134064 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

fundamental supply/demand are meaningless but btfd is in full operation for platinum. yes, i get the joke too.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:59 | 3134071 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Contact your Congress-critter and tell him/her to support this!

Ron Paul’s Free Competition in Currency Act Lives On January 7, 2013 By  

Rep. Paul Broun Jr. of Georgia has introduced the "Free Competition in Currency Act of 2013" in the 113th Congress. This bill contains the same provisions as bills previously introduced by former Congressman Ron Paul, which seek to repeal legal tender laws and prohibit taxation on certain coins and bullion.

The newly introduced bill H.R. 77 seeks to repeal Section 5103 or title 31, which states "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts." This would be replaced by "5103. [Repealed]."

The bill also provides that no tax may be imposed with the respect to the sale, exchange, or other disposition of any coin, medal, token, or gold, silver, platinum, palladium, or rhodium bullion, whether issued by a State, the United States, a foreign government, or any other person. Further, no state may asses any tax or fee any any currency or monetary instrument used in the transaction of interstate or foreign commerce which is subject to the enjoyment of legal tender status under article I, section 10 of the United States Constitution.

Finally, the bill would repeal superfluous related sections of the United States Code by striking Title 18, sections 486 and 489, which relate to uttering coins of gold, silver, or other metal and possessing likenesses of coins. These are treated as anti-counterfeiting statutes. It is provided that any prosecution under these sections shall abate, and any previous conviction under the sections shall be null and void.

After its introduction on January 3, 2013, H.R. 77 was referred to the Committee on Financial Services, in addition to the Committees on Ways and Means, and the Judiciary. The bill currently has no co-sponsors.

When introduced by Ron Paul in the 112th Congress, the Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011 garnered one co-sponsor and had hearings held by the Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology. The bill was not voted on by the House.

Rep. Paul Broun Jr. has also reintroduced Ron Pauls' legislation calling for an audit of the Federal Reserve. The bill H.R. 24 currently has five co-sponsors and has been referred to the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and in addition to the Committee on Financial Services.

Ron Paul's "Audit the Fed" bill had passed the House in the last session of Congress 327-98 with 274 cosponsors. The Senate failed to act on the bill before the end of the 112th Congress.

In a statement included in a press release, Rep. Broun indicated his desire "to pick up right where Congressman Paul left off."

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:20 | 3134133 pods
pods's picture

Thanks Rock, I just looked Title 18 sections 486-489 and realized just how bad things are.  

My kids pressing a coin into silly putty is punishable by 5 years in prison per section 488.


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:38 | 3134602 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

dealers buy the new year in bulk to sell to "collectors". 2013 Silver Eagles are going to be collected? Are you stupid or just a shill for the FED?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:57 | 3134817 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Physical was also in "backwardation" during the pummeling in December. I know im probably abusing that term slightly, feel free to correct me, but it was cheaper to order 2013s than any other year. The risk of delivery default seemed very low at the time and worth taking the risk to save a few percent on a back up the truck moment. Is not clear that risk will stay low going forward in coming years, seems many inventories are depleted. My usual local shop has not had much US or Canadian bullion available at all lately, folks are holding them tight it seems. In part due to the lower prices I'm sure but inventories seem leaner than on previous dips.

Consider also, if PMs head 'to the moon' then isn't it likely the mints will reduce or halt coinage due to rising input costs? Keep on stackin....

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:22 | 3134126 fuu
fuu's picture

Jan Total Sales:


2012 6,107,000
2011 6,422,000
2010 3,592,500
2009 1,900,000
2008 2,170,000
2007 1,070,000
2006 1,115,000
2005 1,095,000
2004 1,392,500
2003 1,725,000
2002 913,500
2001 779,500
2000 1,011,500

At 3.9 million OZ it will be the 3rd best January in the last 13 years if nothing else gets sold.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:28 | 3134151 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

Thanks fuu!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:34 | 3134173 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

same here.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:43 | 3134198 fuu
fuu's picture


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:25 | 3135024 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Very grateful fuu! It's all paper games folks. They see the appetite. They must squash it. Hang tight, hold with conviction, do not use leverage, and TAKE DELIVERY!!!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:03 | 3134085 HomeBrewPrepper
HomeBrewPrepper's picture

My problem with this article and ones like it, is it makes my impulsive self buy more physical, ie junk silver from ebay and now straight 10 oz Apmex bars which was just shipped today. Glad my wife bought me a huge safe for Christmas.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:28 | 3134150 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

not that you keep any of that silver in that safe, of course

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:43 | 3134199 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Everyone knows that only costume jewlry and a few twenties goes in the more obvious (duress) safe.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:44 | 3134497 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Just hope that the thieves don't figure it out.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 22:32 | 3134911 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

You  should have two safes, one that can be found and one that can not.

And always leave a slightly used but inoperative shotgun lying around. They generally don't look for any more, and when they run from the house with it, well, let's just say It looks better at Grand Jury time.

"They"   meaning thieves and burglars, I would not want the above statement to be misconstrued.



Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:07 | 3134671 HomeBrewPrepper
HomeBrewPrepper's picture

Damn I just got in a boating accident and all my silver went down with the boat. I'm fubar.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:25 | 3135147 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Nope HBP....I am investing in one of those large 'industrial' size metal detectors to find all my PMs, guns, and ammo that went down in my boating accident. I should have it 'paid' for in about 3-5 years and after I find my stash I will let you borrow it.....because I am just that kind of guy.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:50 | 3134623 Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

@ Homebrew - Ebay sellers of junk silver are getting a huge premium right to stake out the just listed buy-it-nows for silver listed too low...but not as many of those as even a couple weeks ago.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:06 | 3134666 HomeBrewPrepper
HomeBrewPrepper's picture

Yes, I don't do buy it now and usually only large lots, and even then probably one out of ten Items I "win". People are paying stupid prices, because I always check with a silver coin calculator. Unreal prices, and I've checked it's not the same person.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:17 | 3134435 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

I just placed a order NTR 10oz bars with Tulving (the guy is an asshole by the way) and he said that people is purchasing  a lot from mid Decmber to now, similar to the end of 2010. He is late in many orders because he has not the metal on hand....basically dealers are waiting for the metal to being mined to deliver it. After I ask Hannes Tulving 2 or 3 questions he said to me: "fuck you, I don't know why are you questioned me" and hang on me...that's Tulving folks, that's Tulving.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:22 | 3134573 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Great prices, great service. Tulving is the way to go for large purchases. Provident metals is nice for smaller orders. Gainesville is nice, but the shipping is a tad high and they don't take checks. Hannes doesn't take a lot of shit, because he doesn't have to. Apmex is owned by JPM- that should keep everyone away- not to mention their high premiums and shipping costs. 


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:41 | 3134490 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

Quoting APMEX as the bellweather for US Eagles? Gimme a break! They pull their inventory off the page when the hedge gets too expensive. and...many other stupid tricks. They have become the source of last resort, screwing up almost every order. They take three weeks to process funds and ship. 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:00 | 3134652 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Sir, that is


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:52 | 3134792 ball-and-chain
ball-and-chain's picture

The problem with silver is that it has a ton of industrial uses.

So if the economy slows down, the price drops.

You're better off with gold.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:37 | 3133984 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

How long can they keep this paper game up before somebody finally demands the physical be delivered? 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:42 | 3134009 negative rates
negative rates's picture

That paper now? Would it be yours??

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:45 | 3134022 knukles
knukles's picture

Hah ha ha ha ha
Demand all the fucking delivery your little heart desires.

Good delivery on the CRIMEX include shares of GLD

(just to let you know... been gamed already)

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:54 | 3134055 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

No shit?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:47 | 3134505 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Yep, because in the GLD prospectus, Comex paper is considered to be just another form of physical.

Which means that whatever physical was there, has likely been swapped out by an "Authorized Participant." (read: JPM)

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 00:10 | 3139691 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Wow. That sounds circular. Paper cycle for all but JPM.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:08 | 3134102 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

and even if they do agree to deliver the phyz; it doesn't mean that they are competent enough to do so:

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:49 | 3134514 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

When did that happen? You mean to tell me that it is now "impossible" to have a inventory shortage on the Crimex?


That is a major indicator that they have an actual inventory shortage on the Crimex. Why was this not news?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:27 | 3134581 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You haven't noticed that dealer inventory barely changes, REGARDLESS of the amount of contracts that are met? The discrepencies are pretty obvious. Dealer inventory on silver has continued to rise every month, even with all the record contracts. The numbers don't add up. 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:44 | 3134610 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Come on; that's pretty hard to believe. It's illegal to begin with. Where did you get that from?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:51 | 3134625 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

knukles; you're full of shit. I just looked it up. nothing's changed. expiring paid contracts are settled in physical at their designated vaults; comes under rule 113NYMEX. Been the same for twenty years. Don't spread internet bullshit; these retards believe it and get all hysterical.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:53 | 3134801 Sean7k
Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:49 | 3134037 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Physical coin is getting hard to come by.  And what is available has been marked up about 7% since my last purchase (prior to the last FOMC meeting).  Looks like we're moving back up from here shortly.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:20 | 3134131 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

i call bullshit on this:

Physical coin is getting hard to come by.  And what is available has been marked up about 7% since my last purchase

kitco is reducing prices to get rid of silver coins, bars, bullion, etc.  no shortage of silver there...

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:33 | 3134163 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

there are shortages..  Scottsdale is showing 1-2 week waits on most of their offerings


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:55 | 3134351 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

whoopty do

Scottsdale is showing 1-2 week waits on most of their offerings

so what?  you cant wait stinking 2 weeks?  kitco, at least in montreal, ships stuff to me within two weeks.  i have an online account with them, test ordered 10000 silver canadian antelope, and had to cancel because they were going to ship the damn order as soon as payment goes through.  not interested at these  prices

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 22:21 | 3134881 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

KITCO sucks ass. Why would anyone buy from those crooked fuckers?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:08 | 3134978 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture


Why would anyone buy from those crooked fuckers?

because they've got the goods when other incompetent dealers, see scottsdale above, cant manage their inventory because they, being amateurs, failed retailing 101.  shortages my ass. is silver in backwardation? no. then supply is not the problem.  the price is too high.  it will still go down because weak hands are selling.

btw, define 'crooked fuckers' and give examples.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:20 | 3135073 akak
akak's picture


btw, define 'crooked fuckers' and give examples.

A supposed precious metals company which:

1) sets up opaque, Ponzi-esque "pooled precious metals accounts" while offering physical precious metals at laughably high premiums which almost no rational person would be willing to pay, while routinely being openly indifferent and/or actively hostile to those who actually desire to buy their physical PM products at their office in Montreal;

2) employs as their official spokesman a ragingly dishonest, moronic, disingenuous, arrogant bankster shill who actively, and daily, disparages, mocks, attacks and badmouths both that company's current and potential customers as well as their literal stock in trade (gold primarily, physical precious metals generally) --- said pro-bankster shill having been instrumental in setting up the previously mentioned "pooled precious metals accounts" for said company.


As for examples, I give you any or all of the daily anti-gold, anti-free-thinking, pro-Establishment rants and the generally outrageous idiocy and lunacy of official Kitco Spokesman, Jon Nadler:

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:29 | 3135150 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

@akak: 1) i dont do pooled accounts; and 2) i dont give rat's ass about nadler.

in six years, i have not had a problem w/ them.  that's what i care about.  they have what they advertise.  when they're out, they're out. this bullshit about shortages is bullshit.  kitco actively talks metals down because they're short paper and long metal.  their repurchase price is shitty.  they're dealers.  that's how they make money.  your pockets are not deep enough to deplete their current inventory of silver rounds.  that's the point.  they have the supply.  there's no shortage of silver in their inventory.  that's how this thread started.  you're looking for silver today?  they have it.  get it.  when i see silver in backwardation and premiums above 25% for good delivery 1000oz bars, we'll talk.  all else is noise.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:33 | 3135174 akak
akak's picture

Just be careful regarding the company you keep --- "Lie down with dogs, rise up with fleas".

(Although lying down with Nadler, God only knows what you might rise up with --- probably at least not your wallet!)

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 02:24 | 3135420 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I called KITCO to buy. They suck ass. The amount of money they wanted to ship and insure was ridiculous.

Their pooled accounts fraud is still being hidden and they have all kinds of legal problems facing them, including possible bankruptcy.


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 02:51 | 3135459 akak
akak's picture

No shit BoP!

I have looked into Kitco myself, and between their high-to-outrageously-high premiums, and their exhorbitant shipping and insurance costs, I have a very hard time believing that ANYONE really buys any physical PMs from them. (I would really like to know: has ANYONE here ever done so, or know anyone else who has?) Which, combined with the arrogant and infuriating anti-gold propagandizing of their official spokesman, Jon Nadler, makes me seriously question just what their business model is, and just what their motives actually are --- and whether they even sell any precious metals at all, despite Kitco ostensibly being in that business.

Really, I would be very interested to know: has ANYONE here (aside from the one single poster above --- the first person EVER, in any online forum, I have seen admit that they have done so) ever purchased physical precious metals from Kitco?  And if so, given their inordinately high premiums and high insurance and shipping costs, WHY?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:35 | 3134180 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I call bullshit on kitco.  Just a standing call on everything they put out.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:20 | 3134239 akak
akak's picture

Any PM holder or potential customer should automatically boycott Kitco for their employment of the egregiously and diabolically gold-hating, bankster-loving troll Jon Nadler as their official spokesman.  One would be hard-pressed to find ANY other business which employs, as their official spokesman, a person who DAILY badmouths, denigrates, mocks and attacks both their own potential customers as well as their very stock in trade.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:41 | 3134356 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

I found a  10 oz Kitco bar of Ag at my dealer's a couple of years back. As far as I know that's the only silver the company ever produced. 

Happy New Year to you and yours, Akak.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:15 | 3134437 akak
akak's picture

Well, if it is real silver (one has to wonder, if the name "Kitco" is attached to it), then you are probably safe from having Nadler's sociopathic fingerprints on it --- you know, vampires and silver don't mix.  I'd try to make sure that it is not some novel form of hyper-compressed paper, though, just to be sure.

Happy New Year to you as well E!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:53 | 3134524 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Doug "Kitco" Casey hired him. I do not believe that Doug Casey is a Bear. Do you read his Casey Research Reports?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:09 | 3134549 akak
akak's picture


Doug "Kitco" Casey hired him

Doug Casey hired JON NADLER??!!

I cannot believe that --- you are surely mistaken.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:21 | 3134705 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

I find that hard to believe also; although, Doug Casey doesn't believe/isn't convinced silver is manipulated either.  I always thought his viewpoint was odd, especially when he's got Ed Steer on the payroll.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:01 | 3134252 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Don't believe everything you read by Jon Nadler.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:35 | 3134334 akak
akak's picture

You mean, don't believe ANYTHING you read by Jon Nadler!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:16 | 3134443 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture



Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:13 | 3134273 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

I can't help you with Kitco's situation or marketing approach. But the PM dealer I use is out of the cull Walking Liberty halves that I paid 6% over spot less than a month ago and the Franklin halves are now at 12.8% over spot.  By way of contrast, the silver eagles they are selling are now more attractively priced relative to cull halves as they're priced at 8% over spot.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:29 | 3134313 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

 I do to. CNI has all the silver you want to buy including eagles at spot + $2.75. I hear this "shortage" crap all the time and wherever they are short phyzz, it isn't evident in my neck of the woods.

Make no mistake, I'd love it to be true as I'm up to my eyeballs in silver and gold and am so tired of the joobux paper bullshit marke., But saying there's a shortage when there's no evidence of one doesn't do our cause one bit of good.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 19:42 | 3134491 PowerzThatB
PowerzThatB's picture

The "shortage" on silver Eagles has to do with the period between end of mint sales in 2012 and new 2013 eagle releases (in 1-2 weeks). But go try to find 90% at a reasonable price...or JM bars...or Krugerrands. You can't.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:32 | 3135170 sharky2003
sharky2003's picture

I ordered a bag of 90% Roosevelt Dimes or Washington Quarters on 12/20 for .59 over spot over at Goldmart. A few days later I noticed they raised the premiums to .79. Yesterday when I looked the premium was .99. I just now looked again before I posted and its 1.19 (and all the other bags are .20 over what they were yesterday). Sounds like these are showing pretty hefty demand in order for them to be able to do that. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 02:28 | 3135433 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

40% & 90% junk silver is also out-of-stock at Tulving. First time in at least 6 months.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 21:31 | 3134736 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

kitco have silver? HA HA

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:40 | 3134352 PowerzThatB
PowerzThatB's picture

Per the owner at almost all secondary gold has been sold out for 1 1/2 months. 90% silver is 4-6 weeks out with elevated premiums, and most secondary silver is hard to come by (JM bars, etc.). Even new mintage of silver rounds, 10-oz bars is getting backlogged.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:54 | 3134054 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

As I posted on previous story about Japanese funds...

WOW!  Check APMEX website and look how many silver eagles are out of stock!!!

Going, going, gone...

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:00 | 3134075 DosZap
DosZap's picture

WOW! Check APMEX website and look how many silver eagles are out of stock!!!

Going, going, gone...


With their Prems over spot, hard to believe how much they sell.I stopped buying from them for gouging 3 yrs ago.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:34 | 3134176 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

a middle man taking a pinch is God's Work

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:06 | 3134076 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:37 | 3134170 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

did you know that AMPEX's bank is JPMorgueChase?

so let's see here:

1) you buy 1,000 ozs. of silver from AMPEX in return for the going rate of $.

2) AMPEX deposits that $ into their account with the Morgue.

3) how many oz. can the Morgue short from that $ that you just gave AMPEX using leverage?

500?  1,000?   5,000?   10,000?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:43 | 3134197 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

don't leave out the 1000 ounces of physical removed from their ammo pouch.  This they would sell 100 times.  You do the math.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:51 | 3134223 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

whose ammo pouch?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:58 | 3134240 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I've struggled with that thesis as well, that exchanging FRNs for physical PM is somewhat self-defeating, and the only way to circumvent that self-defeat is to trade around FRNs (and other fiat by implication). 


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:25 | 3134303 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

or at least do some simple due diligence and discover who the PM dealer is banking with before doing any business with them.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 23:19 | 3135016 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

hahahaha, morgue counts the Ag they sell to us as "leased" and print up more paper stocks.

All the PMs in all our safes r belong to JPM.

Bury that stuff out back before they order Barry to make you giver 'er up!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 00:39 | 3135183 just-a-girl
just-a-girl's picture

APMEX bank is Bank of Oklahoma, N.A.

Tulsa, OK

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 14:15 | 3137153 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

if this is correct, then i stand corrected.   all the more reason for everyone to do their own due diligence.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:56 | 3134060 youngman
youngman's picture

There has been a couple of big moves out of Comex in the last couple of weeks...we are talking tons leaving...

ALSO how much could they sell it they stayed open?  What do the government employees do when they are shut down....???  Watch Porno....

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:00 | 3134077 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Not indefinitely and therein lies their problem. As long as the they can rehypothecate the various piles of bullion from the faux paper trades backed by bullion it can play out. Imagine how horrified the holders of these "guaranteed" paper vehicles are going to react. I've met with hedgees that are JUST NOW starting to ask these very questions. It may take more time than you realize for this to play out but it will. They've got to hold off on the price rise for now but it will reach that precious escape velocity one day......

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:36 | 3134339 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

As long as the world continues to price silver in dollars they can keep the game going as long as they want - and they will.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:37 | 3133985 ACP
ACP's picture

With all the demand, I guess that means the price goes lower, right?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:03 | 3134088 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Yes, of course... Are we not all citizens of Htrae, Bizarro World, lately?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:37 | 3133987 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

suck it trav777 bring it!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:11 | 3133989 agent default
agent default's picture

Yeah but they run  out a while ago, so this number probably includes back orders.  Still impressive.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:38 | 3133990 bania
bania's picture

Yes! Silver shirts neutralize the bacteria causing body odor. BRILLIANT! Step right up ladies!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:42 | 3134008 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Silver shorts(no pun intended)keeps the crotch odor to a minimum!!

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:07 | 3134267 Freddie
Freddie's picture

What about Silver long (johns)?  ;-)

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 20:47 | 3134617 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

All my Long John's are Silver. :-)

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:42 | 3133996 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Mrs Cog and me got us some of them thar purdy coins two.

<Because only illiterate hillbillies buy barbarous relics.>


Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:01 | 3134081 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Git yer nickels, CD!  ...before they are made out of zinc.

United States Mint Releases Findings on Alternative Metals Study:
Additional R&D Required Before Making Recommendations

The U.S. Mint is committed to pursuing potential cost savings—whether it be from the use of less costly alternative materials or through production efficiencies. As part of that commitment to reduce costs, the Mint—along with a research and development consultant—undertook a very thorough R&D study to identify potential changes to the metallic composition of circulating coinage and methods of production.

The study took nearly two years, researching 80 metals on the periodic table of elements that may work—and which ones will not, establishing an R&D lab, and testing hundreds of test pieces composed of nearly 30 alloy formulations. The study involved working closely with many stakeholders—the vending industry being the primary one—to assess impacts of any potential alternatives.

The Mint has made significant progress and, at this time, has concluded that additional R&D is necessary before it can recommend any changes to the current coin composition. Going forward, the Mint will continue R&D and testing of potential alternative materials; conduct production-scale runs to validate supply chains, manufacturability, and costs; and further verify the estimated costs to stakeholders that are associated with the change.

Two reports are available on this page—the U.S. Mint's report and the report provided by the consultant under contract to the Mint.


Both reports are in the process of being made 508 compliant. To obtain printed copies of the report, please call (202) 354-7227.

United States Mint Report: 2012 Biennial Report to the Congress on the Current Status of Coin Production Costs and Analysis of Alternative Content, December 2012 (PDF, 8 pages, 128 KB)

Current Technologies Corporation Report: Alternative Metals Study, August 31, 2012 (PDF, 400 pages, 4680 KB)

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:10 | 3134106 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"The U.S. Mint is committed to pursuing potential cost savings—whether it be from the use of less costly alternative materials or through production efficiencies."

Why waste valuable precious metals on our coinage when you can use a scrap Honda from the junk yard.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 17:45 | 3134209 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Why go through all the intermediate steps just to be politically correct.

Why don't the banksters just microchip everyone to save costs like they would really like to.

Oh that's right they would have to take our guns first...

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:40 | 3133997 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Who's the king?

Yeah, that's right.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:40 | 3134000 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

How are the Tungsten sales going? They track that too?

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:46 | 3134024 SHEEPFUKKER

Tungsten outpacing gold 50:1 I'm told. 

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:40 | 3134002 BigPerm
BigPerm's picture

No delivery failures = no supply/demand imbalance.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 16:41 | 3134005 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

They only reason it spikes at the year begining end then lags throughout is because they don't make enough of the coins available.

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