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Will Obama Use An Executive Order To Enact Gun Control?

Tyler Durden's picture


Moments ago, MSNBC showed a clip in which "gun tzar" VP Joe Biden made it clear that "the President is going to act" on the issue of gun control, and that "executive orders and executive action can be taken." Of course "can" does not mean "will" as the fallout from an executive order bypassing Congress would be rather dramatic, especially on a topic so near and dear to at least half of America, and the response, to put it mildly, would make the Piers Morgan vs Alex Jones screaming match seems like a tranquil discussion between two dignified stoics. If "can" however, does become "will", America may have far bigger issues over the next two months than the debt ceiling, kicking the sequester down another several months, or even the quadrillion yen tuna.


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Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:58 | 3138487 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

Well how about you Dexter?  The WH is on Pennsylvania Ave.  Get on down there an show the world how a shotgun or hand gun or just a 9 round clip won't do.  Aren't you as pissed as that poor guy in Tunisia?  He started a revolution.  Paid a high price though...... Way higher than a NRA membership.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:13 | 3138558 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Hope you get paid a lot, and that your address doesn't get published in a newspaper as you thought was so good for gun owners. You'd likely be amongst the first casualties sir. No great loss though.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:51 | 3139101 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

I get paid exactly = to the balls you have: zero. The Founding Fathers you  admire so much for the 2nd amendment put their ASSES ON THE LINE when their government started screwing them.  The only thing you gun boys here on ZH put on bumper stickers on your trucks about "cold dead hands".  Adams and Henry and Jefferson would LAUGH AT YOUR ACTION_LESS BRAVADO.


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 23:08 | 3139526 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

I'll cover them.

Your on your own when the power goes off coward.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:09 | 3138509 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

Talk is indeed cheap. But there is a time and a place for everything and most are probably taking a wise wait and see attitude. Sacrificing one's own life at the wrong time needlessly, does them and anyone else not a bit of good. I suppose we'll see the true mettle of Americans when the registration and subsequent banning and confiscation begins, and I would reckon that all those hollow points procured by DHS and other agencies might well become airborne shortly thereafter.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:29 | 3138318 stant
stant's picture

eo against the 2nd ammedment = goodbye fake dollar and fake economy.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:29 | 3138320 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Here it comes.

You will soon have to really decide to die like a man or live like a slave.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:30 | 3138633 CPL
CPL's picture

When has a man been free?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:32 | 3138330 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

OT but Hilda Solas just resigned.  Wonder if they read ZH after she made a fool of herself and the government.

Good things do still happen here on ZH.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:35 | 3138351 walcott
walcott's picture

Executive order to change to score of National Champioship Game the other night 

to Notre Dame 42 Alabama 14. Don't want to give those rednecks in Alabama any ideas.

Especially when it comes to playing football. Notre Dame won so get over it.


And Alabama? We'll use your sons and daughters that we glady take into our military to take your

guns. They will be ordered to kill their parents and grandparents and their whole family if they resist.

And for all you stupid fuckers in South Bend Indiana? Touchdown Jesus wants your guns!


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:36 | 3138359 bidaskspread
bidaskspread's picture

How about we get  back the fully automatic guns we gave the Drug cartels ; then let's talk gun control.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:43 | 3138398 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I am so glad I stocked up on guns and ammo years ago. I am so glad I have a portion of my assets in PMs. I am so glad I have been trained by a police officer in the use of my weapons. And I am so glad I have practiced shooting and am very accurate.


Damn, I  am blessed. And the best part - I'm not a liberal - nature's "real" clowns.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:43 | 3138400 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

I wonder how much of this is a smoke screen to deflect attention from the budget/debt ceiling/etc.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:01 | 3138432 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

What I find amusing is that if the Government ever wanted to make sure that all Americans were armed for a potential Foreign Take over of our Country.  All they would have to do is to threaten to take away their Guns.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:50 | 3138435 JohnGaltsChild
JohnGaltsChild's picture

Never let a manufactured crisis go to waste.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:55 | 3138459 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

"We are a violent people," said Moore. "We as Americans believe it's OK to kill people. We believe it's OK to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9-11. We think it's OK to invade a country where we think Osama Bin Laden is and he's in the other country. So we just go in and we just kill. And we have the death penalty, we sanction it. Not talking about the insane people now. We're talking about out government which is of, by and for the people — says it's OK to kill people. So why is it a surprise when the unhinged, who live in the same society, go 'I feel like killing some people today?' I think we need to take a look at ourselves."


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:58 | 3138483 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Moore is a freaking troll...

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:03 | 3138507 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

I don't care if you love him or hate him - he's right

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:55 | 3139339 mendolover
mendolover's picture

Anyone with an armed body guard should be disqualified from the debate.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:15 | 3138568 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

My niece is about to marry a guy who is a Ranger... he told me that he basically goes to Afghanistan and breaks down doors at three AM, and carrys away adult or adolescent males into oblivion. He's kind of a cold fish, doesn't say much... he a fucking secret policeman, and when he gets home, he'll have a good job waiting for him, doing what he's been trained to do.

I wonder, being about twice his age, how "young people" are trained to be so morally fucked up. Didn't this kid read 1984? Didn't he read Homage to Catalonia, or Darkness at Noon, or at the very least, Animal Farm?

Oh, wait, the poor little bastard is barely literate. He watches movies all day long, and plays video games, in which he tortures and murders virtual people. He grew up in a command and control culture. He's been searched and metal detected for 12 years of school. They wouldn't let him point a carrot at his school mates. He internalized the dictum that if you want to get ahead, you do what the Man says, and the Man looks like Janet Napolitano.

Michael Moore is right about our violent ciulture, but who promoted the culture? A very smalll minority of people who are the same ones who now want to disarm us. Can you say Hegelian Dialectic? This poor 20-something can't, and he'll be tasering your genitals soon enough, without so much as a twinge of moral conscience.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:35 | 3138644 Abaco
Abaco's picture


Thu, 01/10/2013 - 10:11 | 3140331 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

Abaco, you must (or maybe you don't) know that single word negative comments place the poster squarely in trollville?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:16 | 3138785 ironmace
ironmace's picture

keep that in mind when you decide to give him a load of shit about what you think....

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:53 | 3139337 mendolover
mendolover's picture

I've been warning people about this guy.  Hopefully there won't be enough of this guy to go around.  And I wouldn't want to be his CO when there aren't enough meds to go around.  Also where these guys are getting their experience these people aren't armed in the vast majority. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:05 | 3138488 mrmister
mrmister's picture

Such keen legal perspectives. I wonder if it will be legal when they try to load you onto the train? Well you can figure that one out later. Keep debating the second amendment for now.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:58 | 3138489 linrom
linrom's picture

If psychology of gun ownership is anything like psychology involved with timing of buying and selling investments, I say that there is going to be an opportunity to buy a gun for 50% off.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:43 | 3138875 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Guns just laying around. Opportunity areas start stinking after awhile.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:59 | 3138492 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I do not believe that the Government will be able to take away Americans Guns.  But, I believe the upside will be that there will be fewer violent crimes now almost all Americans will be armed.


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:10 | 3138541 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

I admire your optimism.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:00 | 3138498 israhole
israhole's picture

Welcome to the Russian revolution, a good example of what happens to goyim that let Jews take their guns.  50 million dead, and if you survive you have to listen to the incessant whining about a measly holocaust that never happened.


Wake up now, or take your .22 to the head in the "red room".

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:01 | 3138500 JohnGaltsChild
JohnGaltsChild's picture

Tell me, is it wrong for Obama to use Biden as a human sheild?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:08 | 3138525 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

Not in my book.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:01 | 3138728 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Since when is Biden human?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:02 | 3138502 My3suns
My3suns's picture


Maxim of Law: "That which one has a right to protect by force cannot be taken from him by force."

In the case of using guns, knives, baseball bats, or lead pipes to protect not only ourselves, but our family, friends, neighbors, community, and possibly a sleazy politician getting mugged on the street, (ok, that's a joke), self-defense, be it from whatever source, is our inherent duty and natural given right by our creator – it’s a common law right.  And the right to keep and bear Arms that's been codified in our Bill of Rights is a method, and an end to those means.

This is not a privilege that can be bestowed or revoked by any Man or politician – ESPECIALLY a politician that is, and will only ever be, a SERVANT/TRUSTEE to the people.  

Bow your heads politicians! 


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:09 | 3138532 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

I hope every gun owner maintains a calm head. I guarantee you that the White House is intentionally trying to stir us gun owners up with the thought that someone will do something stupid.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:15 | 3138565 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Ya think? Just read through the paid troll comments in this article alone. Wonder if those IP's originate in DC?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:17 | 3138988 TheVirginian-HGWT
TheVirginian-HGWT's picture

probably 90%. The other 10% are TV head do-gooders who want us all to be slaves together.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:17 | 3138574 uncle reggie
uncle reggie's picture

OK, everyone needs to take several deep breaths and force feed more oxygen into the brain. People are going over the edge on this one. First, is there anyone out there who's really concerned about 2nd amendment "rights" who doesn't already own one or more guns with sufficient ammo to fire at will? If you aren't armed and fear your "rights" are about to be trampled, go out and buy right now. Feel free, everyone else is buying like crazy. Second, do you seriously believe that Obama, Biden or any other politician is going to do anything substantive regarding gun control? It's not going to happen. The politicians who claim to be supporters will spout off to win a few points with their like minded constituents and in the end will do little if anything. Political opponents will do the same. Why? Because nothing can be done to control guns in this nation. We own far more guns then cars, think about that when your stalled in one of the multi-thousand car jams that fill the roads of every major city, every day. How do you "control" guns when virtually everyone who wants one has one, more likely several? As is ALWAYS the case when over-the-top scare headlines are employed, think about who stands to gain by using this repetitive, and effective tactic. The answer may surprise you.  

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:18 | 3138582 PAWNMAN
PAWNMAN's picture

From my cold dead hands!!!!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:16 | 3138984 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

come on - its been said several hundred times already

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:57 | 3139122 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

Like most here...I doubt you've got the balls to do anything that would result in your hands winding up cold and dead from anything but old age.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:20 | 3138597 zrussell
zrussell's picture

Executive Order 13635: Authorization to Disarm the American Public.

"all your guns are belong to us..."

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:21 | 3138598 European American
European American's picture

I guess I done right; buying all these here weapons (and ammo and hi cap mags). If only I could look into a crystal ball and see if I really will need them or not. If not, and I would really prefer it to be that way (can't imagine shooting someone or getting shot), I could out do, on the market, my PM's right now, big time.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:22 | 3138603 Brixton Guns
Brixton Guns's picture

Of course they intend to take our guns, its been part of the UN agenda leading us to the NWO.  Sandy Hook was most definitely a staged psyop indended to provide pretext for this move to disarm Americans.  AJ serves only to incite civil unrest, which TPTB count on to enact martial law which will immediately begin the disarmament process, along with forced vaccinations, mass detentions, and a whole lot more.  This has been part of the agenda all along, and will likely be timed close to market collapse and ultimately natos attacking Syria leading to Israel's Iran attack, precipitating WWIII.  Hold onto your hats folks, this rides gonna get real frickin bumpy.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:25 | 3138611 Spore
Spore's picture

If obummer really does this, is this in fact finally a reason to impeach him once and for all? And all those around him? Really fu*k harry ass reid!!! The people MUST and WILL DEMAND nothing less!!!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:30 | 3138627 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

I've never been able to summon much respect for Obama's ability for rational deductive thought.  I doubt he really graduated anything and certainly, if he did, he never attended enough classes to get any real education.  He is nothing more or nothing less than a preacher...a minister that can excite a congregation.  That's all.  A mouthpiece.  With that said, it is clear he believes that he is omnipotant and has some upper hand in this fight.  This is a really bad fight to pick.  Its like watching the "bar room bully" pick a fight with the new guy at the end of the bar...right after you met the new guy and found out he was a Navy Seal.  If he is stupid enough to pick this fight, then just grab a beer and get a ringside seat.  This should be REALLY good.

"Push the Button, Max"

Fate the Magnificent 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:32 | 3138636 Silverado91
Silverado91's picture

Boy, wouldn't THAT bring the country together....

I don't think he's that stupid to try it. 

And wouldn't this....event be EXACTLY the calling for the people to rise up and FORCIBLY remove this tyranical govt from power described in our Constitution and by the Founders??  Even a slimey Chicago sleeze-ball politician knows the answer to that one, I'm betting.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:38 | 3138647 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Obama and Biden can suck my Glock

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:40 | 3138653 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Fourteen pages of comments, and counting. I would say that is a pretty good measure of the temperature of this issue in the country today. The statists and one-worlders who are in control of the government would do well to read through these remarks as an indicator of the shit they are contemplating stepping in. This issue resonates more than any other with the large and growing number of Americans who are slowly waking up to find that their nation is being taken away from them and replaced with a destitute police state.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:06 | 3139162 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

All those guns...and what do we get?  14 pages of HOT AIR (and, of course, cold hand predictions)

All I hear here is how the Govt/Obama is strangling our freedom. So, Is he strangling it more than the RedCoats in 1774-5?  Must not be, cause if he was I would assume some gun guy, somewhere, would have gotten off the couch by now and DONE SOMETHING.  The Founding Fathers had their ASSES ON THE LINE by the point you guys CLAIM we are at right now.  So either we are not  there...or we are, and the FF would look at you guys and SHAKE THEIR HEADS. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 23:57 | 3139658 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Well, we know that at least one of the statists is reading through this thread. That's a start.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 18:55 | 3138703 reader2010
reader2010's picture

EBT cards for your guns. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:00 | 3138723 Catullus
Catullus's picture

I really want to raise the debt ceiling to enable these fuckers to take more of my freedoms away.

Great lecture on the historic right to bear arms.  For those of you who think the Constitution "granted" the right to bear arms, the concept was 600 years old in the late 18th century.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:02 | 3138732 Catullus
Catullus's picture


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:04 | 3138739 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Obomber has praised freedom fighters (cia killers) many times, he just needs to look over here....((( I waves me flag and fires me coffee cup )))

I don't think his boys will standup for him as he "hopes" (he helped build the chicken side). That leaves the other side to fight the battle he starts for them while he goes underground.  

If he can talk his zombies in to it "Get Some!"

If the others come (czech, russians, chinese, german, UN deadmen) Get Some!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:09 | 3138759 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

I have a glorious collection of weapons. I do not use them to hunt. They will work nicely in the event of a home invasion or other crime. But that is not why I own them. I own them in case my government tries to trample on my God-given Constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms. I will defend that right until my last magazine is empty and I have exhausted my final breath.



Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:57 | 3138919 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:11 | 3138766 magpie
magpie's picture

Ah, you Britain "haters"

the biggest lie of all is of course is that "gun-control" Britain has that thing called Northern Ireland/Ulster right before its doorstep.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:13 | 3138772 Watauga
Watauga's picture

Live free or die?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:14 | 3138776 Lendo
Lendo's picture

Biden is meeting with the NRA tomorrow.  I don't think an EO is in the works..I think it's Biden being Biden.

We shall see.  If they do ban certain guns or magazines, how does that work with losing everything in a boating accident?  I can't register something I don't have.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:21 | 3139399 mendolover
mendolover's picture

It irritates me when people laugh at nutty ol' Uncle Joe's antics.  You'd think this creep would have contracted throat cancer by now with all the shit he talks.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:22 | 3138801 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

...any doubts now about the Manchurian or Kenyan candidate and the New World Order?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:25 | 3138813 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Yes, he will use his power of interstate commerce to create a new weapon and ammunition stamp act, very similar to the Tea Stamp Act, to tax the hell out of gun owners. He will also use the ICC Act to force the registration of guns that cross state lines.

No one will be able to do anything about it.


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:31 | 3138832 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Molon Labe, Obama!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:36 | 3138848 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

The whole debate about taking away Americans Guns has only fueled more Americans Buying Guns.

Which I believe is good.  As with almost every American having a Gun in their Home will deter any Home invasion by Criminals.

Quite ironic that just the mention of taking away our Freedom from owning Guns would cause such a reaction of almost every American buying a Gun.

Yet, with the headlines of young Men on Mind altering Drugs killing innocent people it is no wonder why most Americans want to protect themselves and their Familys.  You never know if your really nice neighbor has a child on Danderous Prescription Mind Altering Drugs and they will try to kill you and your Family.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:08 | 3139169 djsmps
djsmps's picture

You're a fucking loon.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:36 | 3138850 the edge of chaos
the edge of chaos's picture

its about to get REALLY interesting in this country!!!!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:36 | 3138851 OhBaldOne
OhBaldOne's picture

Wonder if this is real or just a fantasy of the author?

According to this article…

Greg Evensen
The Heartland USA
January 8th, 2013


“Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”
–Tenche Coxe



The Dick Act of 1902 . . .CAN’T BE REPEALED (GUN CONTROL FORBIDDEN) The Trump Card Enacted by the Congress Further Asserting the Second Amendment as Untouchable

The Dick Act of 1902 also known as the Efficiency of Militia Bill H.R. 11654, of June 28, 1902 invalidates all so-called gun-control laws. It also divides the militia into three distinct and separate entities.

The three classes H.R. 11654 provides for are the organized militia, henceforth known as the National Guard of the State, Territory and District of Columbia, the unorganized militia and the regular army.

The militia encompasses every able-bodied male between the ages of 18 and 45.
All members of the unorganized militia have the absolute personal right and 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms of any type, and as many as they can afford to buy.

The Dick Act of 1902 cannot be repealed; to do so would violate bills of attainder and ex post facto laws which would be yet another gross violation of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The President of the United States has zero authority without violating the Constitution to call the National Guard to serve outside of their State borders.

The National Guard Militia can only be required by the National Government for limited purposes specified in the Constitution (to uphold the laws of the Union; to suppress insurrection and repel invasion). These are the only purposes for which the General Government can call upon the National Guard.

Attorney General Wickersham advised President Taft, “the Organized Militia (the National Guard) can not be employed for offensive warfare outside the limits of the United States.”

The Honorable William Gordon, in a speech to the House on Thursday, October 4, 1917, proved that the action of President Wilson in that he felt Wilson ought to have been impeached. (? - confusing language…)

During the war with England an attempt was made by Congress to pass a bill authorizing the president to draft 100,000 men between the ages of 18 and 45 to invade enemy territory, Canada. The bill was defeated in the House by Daniel Webster on the precise point that Congress had no such power over the militia as to authorize it to empower the President to draft them into the regular army and send them out of the country.

The fact is that the President has no constitutional right, under any circumstances, to draft men from the militia to fight outside the borders of the USA, and not even beyond the borders of their respective states. Today, we have a constitutional LAW which still stands in waiting for the legislators to obey the Constitution which they swore an oath to uphold.

Charles Hughes of the American Bar Association (ABA) made a speech which is contained in the Appendix to Congressional Record, House, September 10, 1917, pages 6836-6840 which states:

“The militia, within the meaning of these provisions of the Constitution is distinct from the Army of the United States.” In these pages we also find a statement made by Daniel Webster, “that the great principle of the Constitution on that subject is that the militia is the militia of the States and of the General Government; and thus being the militia of the States, there is no part of the Constitution worded with greater care and with more scrupulous jealousy than that which grants and limits the power of Congress over it.”“This limitation upon the power to raise and support armies clearly establishes the intent and purpose of the framers of the Constitution to limit the power to raise and maintain a standing army to voluntary enlistment, because if the unlimited power to draft and conscript was intended to be conferred, it would have been a useless and puerile thing to limit the use of money for that purpose. Conscripted armies can be paid, but they are not required to be, and if it had been intended to confer the extraordinary power to draft the bodies of citizens and send them out of the country in direct conflict with the limitation upon the use of the militia imposed by the same section and article, certainly some restriction or limitation would have been imposed to restrain the unlimited use of such power.”

The Honorable William Gordon

With over 300 Million guns in the United States, the federal CORPORATE government (federal gov’t defined as corporation under 28 U.S.C. Section 3002 (15) and the states are subdivisions of the corporation, 28 U.S.C. Section 3002 (10), cannot ban arms or stop people from defending themselves against a tyrannical government. I read somewhere that just the State of North Carolina can call up 20-30 divisions of unorganized militia (would be about 200,000-300,000 armed North Carolinians) on a moment’s notice. Imagine the State of Texas or Oklahoma if that’s the case?

Amazingly, even if the US tries to ban all arms through backdoor measures like domestic violence laws (Violence Against Women Act, 18 U.S.C. Section 922 (g)) or through an unconstitutional U.N. declaration adopted by our current unconstitutional Congress, no treaty can supercede the Constitution:

“This [Supreme] Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty.” – Reid v. Covert, October 1956, 354 U.S. 1, at pg 17. This case involved the question: Does the NATO Status of Forces Agreement (treaty) supersede the U.S. Constitution? Keep reading. The Reid Court (U.S. Supreme Court) held in their Opinion that, “… No agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the Congress, or any other branch of government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution. Article VI, the Supremacy clause of the Constitution declares, “This Constitution and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all the Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land…”"There is nothing in this language which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification which even suggest such a result…”"It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights – let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition – to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power UNDER an international agreement, without observing constitutional prohibitions.” (See: Elliot’s Debates 1836 ed. – pgs 500-519).”In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and Senate combined.”

Did you understand what the Supreme Court said here? No Executive Order, Presidential Directive, Executive Agreement, no NAFTA, GATT/WTO agreement/treaty, passed by ANYONE, can supersede the Constitution. FACT. No question!

At this point the Court paused to quote from another of their Opinions; Geofroy v. Riggs, 133 U.S. 258 at pg. 267 where the Court held at that time that:

“The treaty power as expressed in the Constitution, is in terms unlimited except by those restraints which are found in that instrument against the action of the government or of its departments and those arising from the nature of the government itself and of that of the States. It would not be contended that it extends so far as to authorize what the Constitution forbids, or a change in the character of the government, or a change in the character of the States, or a cession of any portion of the territory of the latter without its consent.”

Assessing the GATT/WTO parasitic organism in light of this part of the Opinion, we see that it cannot attach itself to its host (our Republic or States) in the fashion the traitors in our government wish, without our acquiescing to it.

The Reid Court continues with its Opinion:

“This Court has also repeatedly taken the position that an Act of Congress, which MUST comply with the Constitution, is on full parity with a treaty, the statute to the extent of conflict, renders the treaty null. It would be completely anomalous to say that a treaty need not comply with the Constitution when such an agreement can be overridden by a statute that must conform to that instrument.”


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:40 | 3139059 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Interesting read, but none of that amounts to squat when the Constitution is suspended by a tyrannical government. NDAA was passed overwhelmingly by our so called representatives, The patriot act, The Utah NSA Data center, forced to buy a product, obamacare. They can and will do whatever they want when the need arises and they will make a "need" arise.

In the coming weeks we will see if so called Constitutional conservatives in DC will defend our rights or sell us out again to a progressive liberal statist regime. Then each man will need to act as their conscience deems best, live free or die.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:05 | 3139363 mendolover
mendolover's picture

Very encouraging.  But isn't this his favorite pastime?  Violating the Constitution?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:37 | 3138854 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

As the gun control debate rages, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo called for the state to enact the “toughest assault weapon ban in the nation” in his State of the State address Wednesday afternoon.

Obama to University of Chicago colleague John Lott Jr:
“I don't believe people should be able to own guns.”

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., has adopted a new term for gun control, “gun violence prevention,” in hopes that the euphemism will make it easier to marshal public opinion in favor of new gun laws as well as other policies designed to prevent shootings.

White House recruits foundations on gun effort

The White House on Tuesday afternoon reached out to major philanthropic foundations not typically associated with gun control to gauge how much they are willing to get involved in President Obama’s future gun violence prevention efforts, according to a person on the call.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:41 | 3138869 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Do any of you still think there was no difference between Romney and the hybrid marxist fascist Obama?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:59 | 3138923 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

No difference at all.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:22 | 3139004 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

You are a fool.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:25 | 3138876 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Even the wife is saying they cannot be allowed to go that far.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:47 | 3138883 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Not even gonna read through this thread.  Why would anyone want anything other then a 12 guage with a 20" barrel for home defense?  

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:53 | 3138905 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

in case they take a hostage or you need to kill beyond 40 yds

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:06 | 3138948 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Tanks, Jets, Drones, Bradly's full of "War Fighters" and the occasional coyote.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:15 | 3138978 TheVirginian-HGWT
TheVirginian-HGWT's picture

The 2nd amendment doesn't say anything about 'home defense'

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:43 | 3139444 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Be careful, getting too old can lead to faulty thinking and casually relinquishing ones once treasured freedoms. When it comes to the defense of freedom a 12 gauge is woefully obsolete. Maybe if you read this thread or the Constitution for that matter you would understand what's at stake, it aint your possessions.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 10:29 | 3140382 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

You obviously haven't thought this one through...

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:46 | 3138885 markar
markar's picture

the country is already split apart. If Obama tries this, it will shred it.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:46 | 3138886 joego1
joego1's picture

Anyone for boiled frog?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:00 | 3138927 joego1
joego1's picture

P. Omeba and blow bygone will need more than 4 years for this project.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:10 | 3138952 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

It is disturbing that our would-be dictator in chief and the gutless CONgress have decided to ignore the fact that we have an AMENDMENT process to the Constitution and instead decide that through he power of the gun they have the authority to pass an infinite number of ILLEGAL LAWS and illegal executive actions.... including the outlawing of the very guns that balance the power.

We have no obligation to observe the laws that have not been passed in a legal manner.

Obama is a fraud and a tyrrant ... with the power of sychophantic thugs behind him.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:19 | 3138997 blindman
blindman's picture

cerimoniously said nothing, stock and trade

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:21 | 3139001 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Perhaps before "they" decide by "Executive Order" to trample on the rights and wishes of the majority of pretty law-abiding "legal" owners, maybe "they" might consider examining the rate of incidence of gun - related crime in those Countries where legal gun ownership rights have been severely curtailed or eliminated - examples of which include Australia and the UK.

In both Countries illegal gun ownership has blossomed, and with it gun crime, including fatal-outcome gun crime.

You'd have thought there might have been important lessons learned from the dismal outcomes of alcohol prohibition - a badly thought suite of knee-jerk legislation whose only significant effects were expansion of the black market, and the encouragement of the establishment of Organised (and well-armed) Crime aka the Mafia.

Back in "Tick-The-Box" mentality Australia we are in the process of "banning" smoking, we've already effectively banned most guns, and you need a licence for even airguns(!!), so we'll soon have another flourishing black market to service the "Government Safety Mindset" created new demand for yet another banned substance - just like the black markets for drugs, guns, etc.

You wonder just what is inside the skulls of "our leaders" don't you!!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 23:35 | 3139595 FerretBrain
FerretBrain's picture

Unfortunately, they already did look at that historical pattern -- they liked what they saw so much, they've decided to make it policy!  Remember, safety is NOT what they're's control!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:22 | 3139005 MagicHandPuppet
MagicHandPuppet's picture

Come and try to take them, PUSSIES!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:08 | 3139170 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

If things are as bad as you say....I'm sure the Founding Fathers would call you the pussy.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:26 | 3139022 blindman
blindman's picture

Exclusive: As Gitmo Turns 11, Al Jazeera’s Sami al-Hajj on 6-Year Ordeal of U.S. Detention, Torture
...Wake ....Up: Babylon's Banksters Run This World
Posted by Josh at 7:55 PM
Wednesday January 9 1:00pm
"present consciousness is a tapestry woven of threads of memory.: "
comment: the horror

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:40 | 3139300 Tourist2008
Tourist2008's picture

When did America and the Americans lose their understanding of what is a human being, of the value and respect which belongs to a human life?

I listen to this interview from "Democracy Now" and I despair for the lost souls that invent, perpetuate and cling to the agenda of hatred, confrontation and control .....

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:58 | 3139488 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Generalize and stereotype much?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:28 | 3139025 Catullus
Catullus's picture

I wonder if you can create a kickstarter for a "well-armed militia".

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:42 | 3139066 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

You mean like this:


26-121. Composition of militia; persons exempt

The militia of the state of Arizona consists of all able bodied citizens of the state between the ages of eighteen and forty-five years and all residents of the state between such ages who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, except:

1. Persons exempted by the laws of the state or the United States.

2. Idiots, lunatics, totally blind persons and persons convicted of infamous crimes.

3. Judges and clerks of courts of record.

4. State and county civil officers holding office by election, and members of the legislature.

5. Ministers of the gospel.



26-122. Components of militia

A. The militia is divided into the national guard of Arizona, the state guard when organized, and the unorganized militia.

B. The national guard consists of commissioned officers, warrant officers, enlisted personnel, organizations, staffs, corps and departments of the federally recognized and regularly commissioned, warranted and enlisted militia of the state, organized and maintained pursuant to law, and all members thereof honorably retired by age or disability.

C. The numerical strength, composition, distribution, organization, arms, uniforms, equipment, training and discipline of the federally recognized national guard shall be prescribed by the governor in conformity with the allocation of units to the state by the department of the army and the department of the air force of the United States.

D. The inactive national guard consists of commissioned, warranted and enlisted personnel relieved from assignment to the national guard by the adjutant general, or at their own request, under regulations prescribed by the department of national defense of the United States, and not reassigned to another component of the armed forces of the United States.

E. The unorganized militia consists of members of the militia not members of the national guard or state guard when organized.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:31 | 3139033 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Obama's policies, and his intent, will put this country into a hyperinflationary crack-up... he knows what follows is violence against the dictator that caused it... he therefore, understandably, wants the guns... remember, his thinking is Kenyan socialist fascist, not American.  the parasite sheep had no knowledge of this when they reelected him.


Where is the Supreme Court... with all of his NDAA and executive orders directly violating our Constitution? His coverups of criminal activity?  His radical debasement of our currency?  His refusal to enforce US immigration law?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:49 | 3139094 surf0766
surf0766's picture

It is marx not socialism. We have been socialist for the past 70 years under the radar. See what pravda wrote about us electing him again.


Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:46 | 3139318 mendolover
mendolover's picture

I have about as much use for BHO as the next debt slave, but let's remember that these are not his policies.  He is the ebony Pinocchio.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 01:07 | 3139814 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

      Obama's policies, and his intent, will put this country into a hyperinflationary crack-up...

Which exactly are the "policies" you can attribute to Obama?  Most of what pisses people off is just hot-air and bullshit in the press.

I hate Obama for being an empty suit who lied his way into office, but I don't really believe there's anything "there" that makes the man *himself* a threat.  He's just the transmitter of the commercial interests behind his campaigns.

If guns don't kill people, Presidents don't create policy.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:56 | 3139097 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Oh!Bam!Bam!...BAM!BAM!BAM!....Bamma! wants gun-control?

Go for it Big Guy and lead by example - starting with those recently-ordered 1.5BILLION rounds of DHS/TSA ammo.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:02 | 3139151 a. palmer jr.
a. palmer jr.'s picture

Obama won't quit until he turns the US into a country like Kenya, his birthplace.  If he and Moochelle like Kenya so much why don't they just move there?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:08 | 3139168 moondog
moondog's picture

Gov. Cuomo want's to make NY state gun laws even MORE restrictive. He wants all people in NY state live under NYC like restrictions. Downstate NY sucks...and so do it's politicians! Start reading at page 163.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:10 | 3139179 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Convenient that after 236 years of having guns legal and one year after Debt Bro authorizes the US to kill its citizens and after the purchase of 1,600,000,000 bullets by Homeland Security (the SS) and after the NWO has taken over the US political structure via the banksters Debt Bro is going to require that everyone has to turn in their only protection against the bankster run government. Right.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:38 | 3139433 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Well, after reading all this, I think I just figured out the government's solution to the entitlements obligations...

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:39 | 3139436 moondog
moondog's picture

What the US will look like if they impose NYC like restrictions...

Permits are a cash cow for NYC and lawyers.

What are some of the reasons that may cause my application to be disapproved?
Your application may be disapproved for any of the following reasons:
A history of driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs (DUI, DWI, DWAI);
Your failure to cooperate with the investigation of your application;
A poor DMV history, including moving violations, failure to appear and answer summonses or failure to pay fines.
This list is not exclusive.  If your investigation results in a determination that you lack character and fitness for a license or permit, your application will be denied.

You need a Rifle/Shotgun permit in NYC!
How much does it cost to apply for a rifle/shotgun permit?
The application fee for a permit is $140.00. You must also pay a fingerprint fee of $91.50. All fees may be paid by credit card or with two money orders made payable to the “New York City Police Department.”

How much does it cost to apply for a handgun license?
The application fee for a handgun license is $340.00. Effective March 9, 2012, the fee for fingerprints is $91.50.

NOTE: It takes a lawyer and connections to get a permit in NYC!! Also, the permit must be renewed every few years (5 I believe).

May I purchase an “assault weapon” now that the federal assault weapons ban has expired?
No, both NYS law and the NYC Administrative Code prohibit ownership of assault weapons.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:50 | 3139469 moondog
moondog's picture

History of gun restrictions in NYC is the history of corrupt politics and organized crime:

New York passed the Sullivan Act in 1911, one of the first gun control laws. This law required that firearms small enough to be concealed on a person be registered. This state law became a test measure for future gun control laws.

Big Tim Sullivan was a notorious Irish gangster whose mob controlled New York City south of 14th Street around the turn of the 20th century. Throwing in his lot with the likes of Monk Eastman, Paul Kelly and Arnold Rothstein, Sullivan became an expert on that dark nexus where organized crime and politics consummate their unholy alliance, and soon became an influential figure in the corrupt Democratic machine there known as Tammany Hall.

He made the relatively easy transition from dangerous street thug and political ward heeler to New York state senator first in 1894. He left Albany in 1903 for a term in the U.S. House of Representatives, and returned to the legislature in 1909 after complaining that he lacked the juice in Washington he'd grown accustomed to on his home turf.

In 1911, the Irish and Jewish mobsters who put him into office faced a growing problem -- the Italians. Immigrant mafiosi newly arrived from Sicily and Naples were horning in on what had once been their exclusive domain. Gunfights on the Lower East Side and the neighborhood around Mulberry Street that was to become Little Italy grew more and more frequent, and it was getting so that you couldn't even shake down a barber shop or a greengrocer without some guy fresh off the boat taking a shot at you.

Not to worry, Big Tim told the boys. And in 1911, he took care of the problem.

The Sullivan Act was passed into law in New York state in 1911 and remains Big Tim's primary legacy. It effectively banned most people from owning and, especially, carrying handguns. Under the onerous conditions of the corrupted law, a peaceable citizen of sound mind could apply for a pistol permit, but if any of a number of elected or appointed officials objected to its issuance, he or she could be denied the license. The law remains in effect to this day and has been used as the basis for gun laws in many other states and municipalities.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 23:29 | 3139580 Weyland_Yutani
Weyland_Yutani's picture

A drugged up crazy fucked up kid with Asperger's syndrome decides to go kill some (unarmed) people. And now this! The US is really going down fast with Obama at the helm.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 00:28 | 3139727 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

No shit! What a joke. Some stupid mom let's her son veg out on violent video games all day essentially practicing to kill people, she takes him to the shooting range and teaches him how to use real weapons. She plies him with drugs that say "may cause suicidal or homicidal thoughts" then leaves him alone in a house with deadly weapons. And we have to lose our freedom for this? What a fucking joke!

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 00:01 | 3139666 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

An interesting thread. It definitely generated a lot of passion, which, although some have written off as bravado, I sense this is probably not quite true.

Although likely restrictions wouldn't affect me (no assault rifles or even guns with magazines), I have listened to the arguments on both sides, and I have to say that the gun advocates have won, hands down. There is no logical argument that can address the tyranny of the state, and only someone in a coma would be unable to recognize the threat that the government represents in its relentless war on the Bill of Rights. In my view, dead children are not a justification for removal of any rights, certainly not fundamental rights, but it saddens me to see people swayed by these incredibly manipulative emotional arguments. Especially given the long-standing pattern of omitting that most of these mass killing episodes are preceeded by an SSRI prescription.

Were this an actual government of, by, and for the people, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But the reality is that the government has been captured by the private Fed bankers, and they want to take our guns because they are afraid. As they should be. The problem is that they aren't scared enough.

I really hope the military is on the side of the people, because it would really suck to have another civil war when there is no need. It is very clear that there is a small group of folks who are trying to create a system of total domination and they need to be checked, and then checkmated.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 00:37 | 3139747 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

+1 Geek!

You are correct, no need for a civil war, just a nice clean divorce. This country is hopelessly divided and the only solution is the return to States rights and a drastically weakened federal government. But the fedgov will not give back it's power without a major fight. The US should be cracked into at least 5 seperate countries, it's the only way, it has already been ripped apart anyhow.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 00:08 | 3139684 HumbleOpinion
HumbleOpinion's picture

I am a concerned female who has never owned a firearm.

Our founders envisioned a day when the government could grow large and tyrannical. The founders built into the Bill of Rights the liberty of the people to defend against such a government. Our founders had, after all, just fought for their freedom. There is no stopping criminals or madmen by gun control. Imagine if a criminal or madman were to rise to power in our country; would gun control stop him or would an armed citizenry keep him in check? Which citizenry would stand the greater chance? As it stands today, this statement by the Administration confirms my growing distrust of the power in Washington. I support the Second Amendment with no further restrictions. Let there be no compromise.

The readers of Zero Hedge are educated and familiar with financial tyranny. I would suggest that gun control is an organized step toward loss of liberty. This is about the power of the bureaucrats over the common people. This is frightening.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 00:25 | 3139720 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I also support the 2nd amendment with no further restrictions. I am much less worried about gun-toting crazies than I am of my own govenment. Sad, but true.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 02:24 | 3139933 trillionaire
trillionaire's picture

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9, "No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States..."  When presidents appoint tzars it is unconstitutional.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 02:45 | 3139950 Xanadu_doo
Xanadu_doo's picture

The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -Thomas Jefferson

Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good. -George Washington

The Constitution shall never be construed….to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -Samuel Adams

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 02:55 | 3139957 nastaking
nastaking's picture

We're barely a few days into 2013 but that hasn't stopped Teclast P98 from being announced.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 04:30 | 3140015 socalat_Kruger's
socalat_Kruger's's picture

Given the advanced deadly weaponry available to governments these days -- as opposed to the late 18th century -- most tyrants aren't all that threatened by citizens with conventional weapons. Like the Iraqis, Libyans were fairly well armed under Muammar al-Qaddafi -- 15.5 guns per 100 people as of 2007 -- but it still took an assist from NATO air power to finally bring him down.  

On the other extreme, the country ranked last on the survey -- with only 0.1 guns per 100 people -- is Tunisia, which as you'll recall was still able to overthrow a longtime dictator in 2011. With only 3.5 guns per 100 people, the Egyptian population that overthrew Hosni Mubarak was hardly well armed either. On the other hand, Bahrain, where a popular revolution failed to unseat the country's monarchy, has 24.8 guns per 100 people, putting it in the top 20 worldwide. A relatively high rate of 10.7 guns per 100 people in Venezuela hasn't stopped the deterioration of democracy under Hugo Chávez.


Thu, 01/10/2013 - 05:26 | 3140056 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

dude all you armchair cowboys with your "the government has advanced weaponry" argument don't have a clue what you're talking about, i'm sorry.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 09:20 | 3140208 arby63
arby63's picture

Agreed. Not a clue. Note to all dwellers of modern half-masculinity: I will shoot anyone who attempts to disarm me.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 10:17 | 3140284 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

If governments have nothing to fear, why are they constantly trying to grab guns? For the children??? Hah! If they cared about the children, the banksters would have been in jail years ago.

Guns don't start revolutions, people do. Guns are just a tool. A tool that was used by American revolutionaries. I gather you must think they threw stick and stones at the British?

I grow so tired of biased morons making bad conclusions on erroneous correlations based on cherry-picked numbers which are dubious at best. Another product of our failed educational system.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:42 | 3140062 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

If Thpmas Jefferson were alive he would own a 50 cal target rifle.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 15:07 | 3141458 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Is anyone able to get Google Trends to respond to a search on "molon labe"?  If so, can you respond to this with a day ago, week ago, month ago, and year ago numbers?  I'd appreciate it.

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