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Jim Grant Exposes "The Bureau Of Money Materialization" And A Submerging America

Tyler Durden's picture


Jim Grant spends exactly the correct amount of time (zero) discussing the "urban myth' of the trillion dollar coin in this brief interview on CNBC; instead deciding to try and strike up some intelligent understanding of the dire situation we face. By providing context for our massive 16 trillion dollar debt (360 million pounds of $100 bills), and explaining how exponential the idiocy has become, Grant brings us full circle as he explains to the money-honey that once upon a time our debt was backed by gold, and "there was only so much gold and so many dollars," thus limiting our exuberance, but "now we have neither the gold covering the dollar nor do we have interest rates constraining us [thanks to Bernanke et al.]; the only thing remaining to constrain us is some sort of civil discussion, a numerate discussion about the debt," which it appears the bespectacled and bow-tie-bound bond brain-box hopes is possible. "The debt has increased twice as fast as federal receipts," he warns, adding correctly that "the United States is truly submerging."

Our fiscal problems are enormous and yet the Federal Reserve, that is "The Bureau of Money Materialization," can print money (materialize dollars on a screen), removing the fiscal constraint too; so what we have is a fiscal problem when the underlying problem is monetary.

With the decidely un-Hamiltonian Lew now in charge and a hyprocritical 'bewailing the debt' Obama now wanting no limits, our future is in the hands of foreigners he warns - and the debt markets will only react when they grasp exactly how big a trillion really is.



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Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:47 | 3142699 khakuda
khakuda's picture

The guy is right. The real problem is the FED.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:49 | 3142703 Rainman
Rainman's picture

No....Oblameo built that !

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:03 | 3142739 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

The problem is people dont understand that this has all been done intentionally in order to enslave us.

They just cant wrap their public school educated brains around the fact that there are some bad people in this world that want to enslave them, take away their freedoms, starve them to death and take all they have.  These same people are caught up in the Red/Blue party paradigm and cant see how their own team is fucking them in the ass.

Countries do not collapse on accident, unless, of course, they are named Atlantis.  But were not Atlantis.  This was the bastion of freedom, property rights, the rule of law.  Ordinary men could break the bonds of poverty and servitude here.  And that really really pisses off the Elites.  They've been working against freedom for the entire existence of the USA and they are about to finalize their plans.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:08 | 3142769 forexskin
forexskin's picture

little disappointed that jim has given up the bow tie...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:03 | 3142949 Thomas
Thomas's picture

It certainly cured any concerns that +50% exposure to gold is too high and replaced them with concerns that 90% exposure is not enough.  "Gold bug since '99."

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:49 | 3143366 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

The video is a must watch for any ZH newbie and should be linked by us all to our friends and family in the shadows of the outside world 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 00:07 | 3143392 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

“Before 1971 what used to constrain borrowing were (1) interest rates and (2) the gold feature of the dollar.  There was only so much gold.  There were only so many dollars.  (Government spending, too, had to work within that constraint)  Today we have neither the gold covering the dollar, nor the interest rates constraining the debt.  The only thing remaining to constrain us is some sort of discussion about the debt, and the debt is astounding.”

Jim Grant YOU are the gold!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 02:27 | 3143518 fourchan
fourchan's picture

who is the fucking moron that invented this fucking coin idea?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:06 | 3145000 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

I for one am cheering that this coin goes on.  People will start to understand the whole charade after the WTF moment.  THIS IS FUCKING ZIMBABWENOMICS, and people need to know it.  The coin will help immensely.  God give us this fucking coin!  Putting charles ponzi/jon corzine on its face would be a plus.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:04 | 3143284 villainvomit
villainvomit's picture

Yeah, but he still rocks

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:10 | 3144811 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

As well as the tie, Jimbo got new socks for Xmas.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:18 | 3142797 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And on this point (and the "trillion dollar coin") more ridiculous fiscal central planning to relieve the people o their labor...

"However, there is a plausible course of action, one that the president should publicly adopt in the coming weeks as his contingency plan should debt-ceiling negotiations falter. He should threaten to issue scrip — “registered warrants” — to existing claims holders (other than those who own actual government debt) in lieu of money. Recipients of these >>>I.O.U.’s<<< could include federal employees, defense contractors, Medicare service providers, Social Security recipients and others.

The scrip would not violate the debt ceiling because it wouldn’t constitute a new borrowing of money backed by the credit of the United States. It would merely be a formal acknowledgment of a pre-existing monetary claim against the United States that the Treasury was not currently able to pay. The president could therefore establish a scrip program by executive order without piling a constitutional crisis on top of a fiscal one."

Our "best & brightest" never paying Secret Serivce agents and soldiers in scrip and see how long you last ;-)

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:30 | 3143018 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

It would merely be a formal acknowledgment of a pre-existing monetary claim against the United States that the Treasury was not currently able to pay.

Only a lawyer could weasel-word "pre-existing monetary claim" into something that's not a debt.  Jeez, it's an IOU, ergo it's a debt, just like an accounts payable.  The acid test would be whether the Treasury itself would accept such "scrip" in payment of taxes (doubtful...why would they want something that's not so spendy), and perhaps more importantly, would Wal*Mart or Safeway accept it in payment for food.

I guess that's what one should expect from the second-rate Ivy Leaguers of Ithaca.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:15 | 3143166 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It really is amazing how they make complete jackasses of themselves.

More...send in the clowns ;-)

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 11:42 | 3144235 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Paying people in scrip is illegal under other laws (for example, labor laws prohibit payment of wages in scrip).

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:07 | 3142959 newengland
newengland's picture

So very true, Zap Powerz.

And this:

The elites hate it if ordinary people own gold, silver, guns, land and genuine community. It is a pity that some people think Soros, Feinstein, Bloomberg, Dodds and others are anything other than Nazi fascists under a new world order in the making...if we the people  let them get away with it.

A Rabbi admonishes them, and supports the Second Amendment, the Constitution, the people of the USA who ought to start remembering whey their ancestors came to the USA, seeking refuge from tyrants in the rest of the world.!



Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:09 | 3142762 forexskin
forexskin's picture

wish he could, from atop his well regarded credibiltiy, simply say the government is practicing unsustainable criminal fraud.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:08 | 3142764 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Jim Grant, Rick Santelli, Nigel Farage........wait a minute, I'm forming my "fantasy" cabinet.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:30 | 3142840 tsx500
tsx500's picture

Kyle Bass

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:04 | 3142952 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Jack Bogle, David Stockman...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:24 | 3143006 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Stockman for sure.  Just because he's been there before, provides the benefit of being able to demonstrate how not to fuck upthis time.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:52 | 3143371 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

I thought you folks liked and respected these people!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:59 | 3144757 ultraticum
ultraticum's picture

Jim Rickards, Jim Rogers, Marc Faber . . .

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:19 | 3145036 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

imagine a statement by mark faber as a govmnt official:  "Good morning ladies and gentleman, I am thankful and honored to be taking this position. My first assignment is to audit the gold, because the previous guys have probably sold it all and it's probably on some bunkers in China and Switzerland.  Also, I think that we should unwind the Fed's Balance sheet immediately, and raise interest rates to at least 25%.  After that, prime wall street real state will be on sale, as the banks collapse.  Mark my words: this is a full-blown reset and please start your preparations for war."  

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:30 | 3142843 tsx500
tsx500's picture

Alex Jones

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 01:38 | 3143481 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

I only saw a couple Alex Jones videos from my buddy and it sorta was interesting, but after watching that almost incoherent CNN interview...?  If he didn't like the system why did he go in to play.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 05:35 | 3143626 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Jones is part of the controlled oppposition. He is sponsored by money and will eventually self-destruct because he has been seduced by money. Jones is given a forum by the controllers so that he can help them destabilize the people and identify threats. He is the worst kind of traitor and his ranting will incite some and give the controllers the excuse they want to crack down further on freedoms.

Keep in mind that it is the incompetence of the controllers that makes them fearful. Their instinctive reaction is to reduce the threat instead of embrace is.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 06:43 | 3143657 israhole
israhole's picture

Plus, Jones has said that Hollywood is controlled by Arabs.  He's a dick.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:56 | 3142916 grgy
grgy's picture

With Ron Paul as president, add Marc Faber, Peter Schiff, James Rickards and David Stockman and those already mentioned and we've got one hell of a team.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:57 | 3142924 knukles
knukles's picture

I of course, could help out with Perceptions Management.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 00:43 | 3143440 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Seriously, Faber isnt even American.

You are smarter than this.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 01:37 | 3143480 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Is obama?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 02:50 | 3143539 fourchan
fourchan's picture

its doubtful.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 09:50 | 3143891 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Install very right in the middle. 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 10:20 | 3143976 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

Obama is from Haiti they say

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:59 | 3143118 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

You actually would not need anymore folks.  The rest of the Grubbermint work force gets 24 hours notice, don't turn up tomorrow, etc.  Just send them a fuckin email, no admin, everything else gets closed down.  I would keep the core defence force but none of the offensive shit and all the alphabet agencies.

Job done.... move on.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 00:07 | 3143391 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

I love when Santelli has Nigel FaRONZ on the show.....

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 09:49 | 3143889 geoffb
geoffb's picture

Hugh Hendry for president?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:50 | 3142705 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The REAL problem are the 'beneficiaries' of the existence of the FED... Moreover ~ the masses who are harmed [by same]...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:03 | 3142738 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

It IS The Fed. Trillion dollar f***ing coins????????? These people are killing us.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:04 | 3142743 Dealer
Dealer's picture

I love this guy.  But not as much as I love Kyle "Nickles" Bass.


Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:20 | 3143186 bobthehorse
bobthehorse's picture

Jim Grant is a shit hot.

Ron Paul loves him, too.

Nuff said.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 09:44 | 3143876 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Jim Grant said, the FED is should be refered to as the Bureau of Money Printing.  I say the "Dollar Print Store".

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:49 | 3142706 laomei
laomei's picture

The FED's not the problem.  The problem is interest and predatory practices which should be flat out criminal.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:51 | 3142709 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "interest & predatory practices" are collectively known as USURY... Follow the trail to see where that practice leads...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:53 | 3142717 laomei
laomei's picture

The basis for the entire US economy?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:54 | 3142720 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

dead end

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:11 | 3142965 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

hey speicher

Dont blame the jews because you cant get a loan

You're a fuck up, plain and simple

and your pathetic, jew hating existence is a source of great amusement for Yids and Goyim alike.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:15 | 3143097 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If you're talking to me, as far as 'loans' are concerned I don't worry because I don't borrow money [notwithstanding the reality, or not, that the main source of borrowed money happens to be from insolvent banks whose office of 'central casting' prints the stuff out of thin air & for their personal enrichment]... The fact that they're mostly managed & coordinated by Jews is therefore, in practice, your problem, not mine [or perhaps NOT because it appears you relish the role of a debt slave]...

Furthermore ~ my motives for 'not borrowing' money AREN'T completely selfish [as I'm 100% aware of the fact that in a debt money system, every dollar that I'd presumably borrow would be subsequently levered up, via multiplier into 'joobux' in the system ~ thereby causing amplitudes of misery down the line for innocent folks who don't quite understand the system]...

I elect YOU to tell them how to act & spend... My suggestions aren't very helpful...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 00:40 | 3143434 tango
tango's picture

Working on the Ron Paul campaign I ran into some who launched into mad rants about "those Hollywood Jews who ran all the banks." Folks would go silent, utterly embarrassed at such tripe.  I thought the idea of blaming other groups for problems disappeared after the Black death.  Guess it's still alive and kicking.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 02:54 | 3143544 fourchan
fourchan's picture

jews invented central banking, and they control all the central banks, so what does that tell ya?


i even love a good matzo ball soup and a nosh on a lean corned beef with mustard.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 08:14 | 3143705 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The subtle difference that folks like yourself [tango], fail to let sink in is that it's NOT ABOUT BLAMING... Instead ~ it's about honestly identifying the problem...


Let's say someone has a problem with alcohol [an alcoholic]... It does not help the BLAME the bottle [or the person]... What DOES help is taking an honest look at the PROBLEM [helping the person to see that they do, in fact, have a problem with alcohol... Usually there is no real 'solution' to the problem [as ~ even if they stop drinking, stastistically they're likely to struggle with alcohol dependency all their lives even if they manage to control their urges]...

Your friends at the Ron Paul campaign [both the vocal & slent ones weren't helping the problem]... The ones who blurted out a 'knee jerk' statement like 'Jews in Hollywood', weren't ON TARGET [& the ones who were silent weren't helpful either due to fear of ridicule, or simple ignorance of the situation at hand]...

The comment above "they control all central banks" is a lot closer to the truth... So if you start there, you can go about identifying the larger problem [because ALL commerce & industry, as it exists today, needs banking]...

So hypothetically, even a THINKING person could just say... "Well then ~ if you think the problem is that Jews 'control all the central banks', then let's just begin systematically removing them from positions of power... Let's start a 'reverse osmosis' here [ostensibly they would do this partly to PROVE that the culprit was not the Jews themselves, but the corruption of people in general]... I cannot comment on what may or may not occur at that point because it hasn't happened...

Nor will it... Because I highly suspect that the Jews would not voluntarily begin the process of stepping away from these positions that they have not only worked for centuries to achieve, but in the process fashioned it into a tightly knit fabric... It's be like an alcoholic voluntarily giving up alcohol... It can happen, but it is unlikely... So until that time, everyone else is treated with the drunken behavior... And most [like your friends at the Ron Paul campaign] prefer to keep quiet while the drunk [or drunks] dance around with lampshades on their heads...

God forbid they confront the drunk... They risk that the drunk might come straight up to their face & act belligerent & obnoxious... That would be embarrassing... Best to keep quiet then...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:05 | 3144302 Thisson
Thisson's picture

No Francis, you are wrong (as usual).  Even in banking, Jews are a minority.  Go down to the local credit union and see who's running the place - odds are it's a gentile.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:54 | 3142909 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

So if I let you borrow 10k from me, I should charge you no fee for taking the risk that you might never pay me back?



Pretty good deal for you, huh?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:17 | 3143173 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

At first, I doubted you have "10k", so I'll front you 10k. And to make it fun I'll front you another 10k and, what the heck, I'll front you 1000k. Now I know you have 1020k congratulations, what do you have? You can thank me now or you can thank me later. Hope this helps. Don' t let the door hit you on the way out.

Pretty good deal for you, huh?


Fri, 01/11/2013 - 05:29 | 3143622 laomei
laomei's picture

If I need $10k to invest in my business venture, it should be treated as an investment on your part, of which you are entitled an equivalent portion of the profit until it is paid back.  Simple really.  If you belive the risk is too great, well... then you just don't loan the money, pure and simple.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:50 | 3142707 koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

Secretary of the Debt... excellent moniker

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:17 | 3142791 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

 the Federal Reserve, that is "The Bureau of Money Materialization,"

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:51 | 3142708 g3h
g3h's picture

Grant is wise.  But he is not always right.


His old fashion understanding of monetary system is not the right one.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:52 | 3142714 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Enlighten us, please.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:53 | 3142719 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Don't feed the oba trolls.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:53 | 3142718 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "old fashioned understanding of monetary system" is like trying to label something as 'old fashioned understanding of a flat earth"...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:26 | 3142825 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

I asked the clerk at Walgreens if they accepted fiat money. She said no.


There is a lot of 'teaching' to be done.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:56 | 3142918 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

Oh, they'll learn alright.




Just not in the way they'll want to.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:58 | 3143115 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I don't know why... But that's funny to me [in this moment]... So I take it LAS VEGAS DAVE [above] works at Walgreens & was your cashier in this transaction on this occurrence...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:01 | 3143277 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Next time, I'll ask if they take 'joobux'.................

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:13 | 3143300 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Only if you happen to be purchasing ammo... Just a casual piece of advice ~ take it or leave it... Some don't get the joke...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:16 | 3143306 villainvomit
villainvomit's picture

haha!....I took about forty Eisenhower clad dollars to the bank to exchange for FIAT to buy AG for a Christmas present.....Teller was like "What are these ? 50 cents each ?"  Uhm no, they are one dollar each and says so right on the coin.  "Well I have to go verify this!"  Hahahahahaha dumbasses all around

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:03 | 3142741 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

How much does 16 trillion dollars weigh in 100 dollar bills then?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:19 | 3142803 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Hey, it's been over an hour. Isn't it time for another Bruce K. anti-SS rant article ?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:35 | 3142853 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

It took me a second, but then I got it - good one.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:37 | 3142859 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Per the article, 360 million pounds. Sounds about right. I'll go take a look in the garage to check, though, just to be sure.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:16 | 3143172 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture


I'm not very old but Old Fashion to me means "Common Sense"

Something that is in short supply today.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:50 | 3143245 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture


Common sense & WW III v. WW IV by albert einstein

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:51 | 3142710 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Once Bernanke printed that first dollar of QE, the death knell sounded for the dollar and our financial system (and probably our economy and political system as well). The day the FED stops the flow is the day the stock and bond markets crash, so the FED has to print until inflation kills the nation. Ben wil probably be gone by then.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:41 | 3143062 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

Once Bernanke printed that first dollar of QE, the death knell sounded for the dollar and our financial system

Oh, please.  That train left the station a hundred years ago this coming December.   The dollar's been in a downward slide more or less continuously since 1913, and the state has been more or less in continuous ascension over the same period.  Coincidence?

Incidentally, the Fed need not stop the flow of QE cash.  It needs merely to slow the rate of increase.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:51 | 3142711 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I get a kick out of the idea that '360 million pounds of $100 bills' somehow gives us a better perspective on 'how big' 16 trillion is.  I don't think anybody has a real appreciation for how large 16 trillion is but I really doubt anybody can visualize how heavy 360 million pounds are either.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:04 | 3142746 gimli
gimli's picture

It is hard, but I'll try -- this is similar to our debt problem:

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:10 | 3142775 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Lets see. the man weighed 700lb, 136 million / 700 = about 514,000, so the debt is approximately equivalent to 514,000 700lb men stuck in their chairs.  Yes, it's starting to come together for me now...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:15 | 3142784 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

40 something and hasn't left his chair in 2 years. I'm sure he works from his house....probably a telephone solicitor or something.....what....the HELL you say !  WE pay for him???? AND everyone like him. THAT'S where my SS $$$$ went.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:19 | 3142801 gimli
gimli's picture

Remember to add in the maggots......

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:21 | 3142813 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

How many maggot coin to pay off the deficit ?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:08 | 3142755 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

360 million pounds = ~ 1/4 of the weight of the Great Pyramid

we still got a ways to go it seems

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:52 | 3142715 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Secretary of Debt.  LOL!

I love Jim Grant.  Why are they yelling on the floor?  Some retail investor actually make one trade?

TV is shit. I do not miss it.  CNBC is trash too except for Santelli and guests like Jim Grant and a few others like Bass, Dalio, Faber, Rogers, Hendry, etc.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:00 | 3142935 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Watch RT (Russia Today) - it is the bomb. 

Not only do they have semi-hot chicks, but they can lie to us out of both side of their face.

I'm talking about the news readers, not the sweetheart Lauren Lyster or Stacie Herbert.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:03 | 3142948 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

I was watching CNBC online videos and they had Grant, Faber, and Schiff all on today. It must be the end of the world.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:20 | 3143167 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I didn't know they were all on so here are the videos I found on CNBS' website:


Thanks for the info

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:53 | 3142716 Rainman
Rainman's picture

The Kleptocrats are stealing so much so fast even the criminal Fed can't keep up. That's the sorry state of the whole mess.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:58 | 3142723 piceridu
piceridu's picture

If only Jim could be Secretary of the Treasury, Fed Chairman all wrapped into one... 

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:41 | 3143346 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Jim would abolish the Fed and allow markets to determine the cost of money, aka interest rates.  Novel concept, old fashioned, I believe someone upthread said.

Alas, we are too far gone for even Superman to fix us.  Mere superpowers are not enough.  It takes Obumma and the staff of Cloward, Piven and Marx to make us right, now.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:59 | 3142726 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

they won't argue about the debt ceiling; it will get raised; and Obama might even get unlimited... it's over, the only thing they can do is print and pray it holds together before they die.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:07 | 3142758 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The repukes have rolled over and given him everything else he wants, they sure aren't going to stand up for the debt ceiling. Which by the way is an idiotic item. We are past the point of no return, raise the debt ceiling to infinity and be done with it.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:54 | 3142911 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Don't throw in the towel just yet.  Anarchy only feels good in the beginning.


Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:17 | 3143174 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The debt ceiling is a ridiculous self imposed arbitrary target. The market should determine the debt ceiling period. When the market tells us we can't borrow any more then we can get limits set on Washington.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 19:59 | 3142728 Chartist
Chartist's picture

Here's what Jim Grant always misses:  It ain't gonna matter during his lifetime.  He's right in the end but that's along ways away...China has 4x our population at least and a much lower GDP.....When China's economy becomes self sustaining, then I'll worry....That's 50 years away.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:04 | 3142750 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Congratulations! You just won the Zero Hedge dumb shit post of the week!

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:04 | 3142751 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Whew, thanks for putting my mind at ease.  All those exponential charts of the debt and deficit, the zero interest rate policies and outright monetization of the deficit, the continuing infringements on personal liberties, endless wars, the perpetual offshoring of industry, the distraction of the masses with the modern day equivalent of bread and circuses, it was all starting to worry me.  Glad to hear it's another 50 years before this stuff will hit the boiling point.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:09 | 3142771 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

50 years my butt. This thing will fall apart inside of two years.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:19 | 3142802 edwardo1
edwardo1's picture

When China becomes self sustaining? They don't need to be self sustaining they simply need a buyer for their goods other than us? And they are making great strides in that direction.

In any event, it isn't all down to China. it is down to super producers in general no longer using U.S. debt instruments as a place to save. That is well underway which is what impels The Fed to take up the budget deficit slack with QE ad infinitum.

Notice what debt Japan-now firmly in the race to the bottom of the currency pool- has committed to purchasing. It isn't U.S. Government debt. The denoument to this rather awful drama is much closer to occurring in fifty months rather than fifty years.


Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:18 | 3144354 Thisson
Thisson's picture

They don't need a "buyer" for their goods.  They simply need to make a lot more goods and services and distribute it to their people, raising their per capita wealth.  Bringing in a foreign trading partner just adds a middle-man into the process.  China doesn't need to export goods to obtain dollars to buy goods and services if it just makes the goods and services itself.


Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:25 | 3142821 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

wow sure glad i am 60. party on garth

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 08:50 | 3143750 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

Ahhhhh ... the comic relief portion of the show.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:00 | 3142730 Freddie
Freddie's picture

He wants him to be Alexander Hamilton?  Does he want him to take a bullet for the team?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:16 | 3142789 Squid Vicious
Squid Vicious's picture

Hamilton = the original banker stooge

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:51 | 3143093 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

Actually, he WAS a banker...founder of the Bank of New York.  (On his way out the door to his "appointment" at Weewauken w/a Mr. Burr, he is reported to have said, "Dont change anything, until I get back." ...and they hadn't til the merger w/Mellon.)

His Funding Act of 1790, which authorized repayment of state debts at par, enriched speculators who had bought up the nearly worthless paper for pennies on the dollar over the preceding several years.  "Stooge" is far too kind, as it suggests a degree of unwitting participation.  AH knew exactly what he was doing and for whom he was doing it.  Bastard.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:08 | 3143150 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "and for whom he was doing it."


That's always the MONEY SHOT isn't it?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 05:24 | 3143618 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

the book Burr by Gore Vidal is excellent

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:18 | 3142983 grgy
grgy's picture

I believe he said Lew was "no Alexander Hamilton" suggesting to me that he thought it unlikely that he would take one for the team among other things. 

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:09 | 3142774 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

Thank god for my silver life jacket.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:34 | 3143037 BuckShotJones
BuckShotJones's picture

Taking a page from "My face is ugly but chicks will dig my solid gold shirt"; I think there is a market for solid silver life preservers -Coast Guard approved for a financial tsunamis

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:14 | 3142782 DowTheorist
DowTheorist's picture

Long-term bonds are showing weakness since mid December in spite of the tailwind provided by weak gold. Thus, the BLV (long-term bond term bond) / GLD (gold) ratio may provide us with some clues as to when bonds will take a big plunge (provided GLD keeps tracking the price of physical gold)



Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:18 | 3142800 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Reposted from another thread:

Grant was just on CNBC.... I respect him as he is clearly no fool, but why can't someone ask him if the USD was backed by gold what would happen when all that putative gold in Ft. Knox is gone in about 18-24 months to pay for the oil imports???


Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:38 | 3142861 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Gold backed currency would force us to actually do something about the trade deficit. We would actually have to make something and provide an environment that people want to invest in. That would keep the gold in the country.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:14 | 3143305 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

I ask this question honestly.

If more of the stuff we need is made here: don't we buy less from foreigners, causing them to loose jobs?

How do we sell stuff to foreigners while their unemployment increases? 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 08:52 | 3143754 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

How do we sell stuff domestically when unemployment increases?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:45 | 3144429 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Yes, I see what you mean.

Basically, we're screwed. 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 02:15 | 3143507 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You have 24-36 months until the currency collapses with the added benefit that your gold is now gone....

You get economic collapse as oil demand must plummet and/or your gold is gone...

There was a very fucking good reason why Nixon closed the window in '71...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 05:29 | 3143623 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Nixon turned down a good offer by De Gaule for a free shipment of gold service by the French Navy!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 06:59 | 3143663 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

If you call spending precious resources on a useless war in Vietnam good, then you would be right.. ... Nixon had a very good reason to shut down the gold window.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:06 | 3144306 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Here is the import history for US oil

Select US, do you see what happened in 1970? Do you see the rate of change in the net imports? Compute the length of time required for the gold reserves to vanish at  15 bbl ~ oz of Au....

Sorry it is not the best of figures as the EIA data only goes back to 1981 for imports...

Related is this good read from 1973:

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:41 | 3142869 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Actually, I think that is the basic mechanism that prevents [an individual/a family/a nation] from living beyond its means.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:42 | 3142877 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Buy stuff from other countries - gold goes out. Make stuff and sell it to other countries, gold comes in.  Oh, now I see the problem....

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:08 | 3143148 D-2
D-2's picture

So your solution is to keep on writing worthless checks for this oil, right? Do you intend to pay for it, ever?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 02:13 | 3143509 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I offer no solution, not all problems *have* solutions. I am only pointing out the intractability of the position from the other side... Life is hard and no one wants to really pay for the mistakes...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:21 | 3142806 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:22 | 3142816 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

Jim Grant Treasury Sec

Jack Lew Treasury Sec

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:24 | 3142819 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Grant's beginning to look a bit frazzled and his preaching has become a bit "Long in the Tooth", unfortunately.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:27 | 3142832 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

People like Grant are never considered for Obunga's administration... they MUST be first vetted by some crooked asshole like Dimon or Blankfein.  Or... come from the planet of Uranus like Joke Biden.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:28 | 3142833 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Jim is smarter with the bow tie.

That's just the way it works.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:47 | 3142895 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Sober. Sobering. What Jim says is sobering.

What if Jim Grant wore a bow tie saying "Sober Up, America!"

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:37 | 3142858 JohnGaltsChild
JohnGaltsChild's picture

Obama is not going to issue a trillion dollar coin......that's silly.......he is going to issue a trillion dollar food-stamp.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:12 | 3143158 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Better buy your ass a box of salt then... Fucking idiots around here don't realize that a couple of boxes of salt will be worth far more than Gold Eagles if some of the scenarios that are described play out... You still might need some gold, however, to bribe the rabbi into deeming your salt kosher...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:46 | 3142890 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Central Bank = #2 = visible part of iceberg
#2 works for... #1 = invisible part of iceberg
Who IS #1???
Who is TRULY enslaving us? #1 or #2?

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:07 | 3142960 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

bisexual bishops bisect bison biscuits

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 01:00 | 3143454 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

#1, and I'm guessing his name starts with an R and ends with a D.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 20:50 | 3142903 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture



Grant is aye aheid ay replayed playbook scriptures. balancin' odds against letdoon meets rubber tae road central plannin' deadlines. dutch eest india company protocol will experience cuttie falls contingent tae devotion towards expanded mission goals. most chaos msm programmin' is devoted tae guns. central plannin' objecti'es ur much easier tae manage withit obstacles.    

Mission of Burma - That's when I reach for my Revolver

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:05 | 3142938 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Many people claim that the Fed (US central bank) is the problem. But...

Central Bank = #2 = visible part of iceberg
#2 works for... #1 = invisible part of iceberg
Who IS #1??? Classified Info, come to find out.
Who is TRULY enslaving us? #1 or #2?

If you can't even get #2 on the leash, do you really think you will get #1 'sorted out'?

Finally... If we can't even get a WH petition with 25K votes off the ground...

Dear Simon Black @
I'd like to... get the puck out of here...

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:28 | 3143202 bunnyswanson
Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:01 | 3142940 David Wooten
David Wooten's picture

Mr. Grant is correct but his message isn't getting through to enough people for the very reason he mentioned - that a trillion or 16 trillion is too incomprehesibly large for the people to understand.  So let's look at in terms of per capita debt - or debt per family of four. 

There are roughly 1/3 of a billion people in the US so a billion is $3 per head.  A trillion is $3000/head;  and sixteen (16) trillion is $48000/head - or $192,000 per family of four. 

Now tell the American people that each family of four owes $192,000 to pay for the 'benefits' they have already received and perhaps they will take better notice when Congress wants to raise the debt ceiling so that each family of four will soon owe over $200,000.  Most of them will understand this a lot better than 16 trillion.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:13 | 3142975 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

True, however, the typical response is "I'll never have to pay it back"! That's the crux of the matter.It's when the "creditors" say it's over and they're further east.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 22:00 | 3143116 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

when the "creditors" say it's over

Not necessarily.  Those expected to foot the bill also have a say.  We have made far too many promises to far too many people.

Outright repudiation is the only answer.  And it WILL happen, mark my words, b/c a debt that cannot be repaid will not be repaid.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 23:03 | 3143279 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

I've never had a car repossessed but it would look something like this on the scale we are talking about.  Beware "nongovernment organizations" who may be taking inventory.  Code enforcement agents as well.  Iceland still has it's debts. It is being paid.   Iceland, however, did not bail out their banks.

From Article:  "So you’re a super-rich American investor and a large South American country owes you $1.6 billion, which it refuses to pay in full.

You can take a partial settlement that others have taken – which reportedly would get you just 30 cents on the dollar – or you could do something a little more drastic and, say, seize a high-profile naval vessel belonging to the offending country. What do you do?

Such was the real-world problem facing billionaire Paul Singer before he decided on option B, and his company convinced a small African nation to seize Argentina’s Libertad frigate.

As reported by, the ship’s seizure is the latest salvo in a standoff between Singer, a hedge fund kingpin and one of the largest GOP donors this election season, and the government of Argentina. The two have been locked in a global dispute over the reported $1.6 billion debt claim that resulted from the country’s nearly $100 billion default a decade ago.

Caught in the middle this time is the historic frigate ARA Libertad and the West African nation of Ghana. The stately, three-mast ship was seized three weeks ago after it docked in Ghana, where a local court ruled the ship could be held on behalf of NML Capital, a subsidiary of Singer’s investment group, Elliot Management Corp. More than 300 Navy sailors stayed with the ship until the Argentinean government ordered them to abandon it earlier this week. They returned home Thursday.

Top Argentinean officials have reportedly accused the Ghanaian government of violating rules of diplomatic immunity and likened NML Capital’s actions to a “vulture fund” involved in international extortion.

In a “Braveheart”-worthy declaration earlier this week, Argentinean President Cristina Kircher said on national television, “They may keep our frigate, but not our freedom.”

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:21 | 3142995 Theos
Theos's picture

Most people dont even understand how inflation works, or what a bond is, or what the exponental function is. They either work day in and day out for dollars, which have no value, or take their transfer payment and buy widgets.


They dont give a fuck, nor can they understand.


This is the new normal.




Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:44 | 3143073 bilejones
bilejones's picture

The American people do not owe the debt, the US government does, and therein lies the solution.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 04:01 | 3143577 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

bingo here...BINGO

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 10:27 | 3143988 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture


each family of four owes $192,000 to pay for the 'benefits' they have already received


I have received no benefits. Neither my spouse nor my children have received a penny of SS or welfare or SNAP or even an Obamaphone. Also, I do not consider wars of choice the globe over as a benefit nor does our military provide any defense (benefit) for my family.


So, I know my family has received no benefit whatsoever and when the bill comes, I'll shred it and tell 'em that I'm bankrupt just like them.  

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:04 | 3144299 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Tell that to the IRS agent.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:32 | 3143025 besnook
besnook's picture

the problem with jim is even though he lays out the logical reality of the situation it does not jibe with the fantasy created by the money changers.

the money changers fantasy is the acknowledgement that the usa debt is just a number , the fed balance sheet is just a number, the budget deficit is just a number and the current account deficit is just a number all meant to simply balance other numbers in an equation that throws off a lot of cash(the only meaningful number)to people who understand the meaningless character of the other numbers. this is precisely why the trillion dollar coin has a significant relevance to the present situation. it is the ultimate kick of the can down the road, perpetuating the fantasy by creating a more believable version of the fantasy without having to face the reality grant outlines. with the setting of the trillion dollar coin precedent the ponzi scheme can last forever in reality.

in other words, grant's problem is he doesn't understand the game so his forecast or solutions cannot apply. some lsd or opium or both(can you imagine?) would help him understand.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 21:55 | 3143107 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

We all know it is a Fed induced problem, but a greater problem is that 47% of our population doesn't even know what a Fed is much less what it does. 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 09:41 | 3143867 d edwards
d edwards's picture

We refer to the 47% as the dumb masses.

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