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Chinese Military On "High Alert" After It Scrambles Fighter Jets To "Counter" Japanese Jets

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The one thing that most seem to forget in the epic 30 year old story (which has a very sad ending) that is the Japanese floundering economy, is that while the new Abe government may and will likely try everything to crush the Yen (which is already nearing the 90 USDJPY target, however briefly, before it resumes its grind lower once it dawns on investors what it will mean for the Japanese Treasury when bond yields soar), the main reason it has posted three massive monthly trade deficits in a row has nothing to do with its currency, and everything to do with what is now a permanent boycott of Japanese exports by China.

The paradox is that Abe, a well-known nationalist, may well crush the Yen but he will only aggravate Chinese tensions (thus hurting Japanese exports, GDP, and the current account even more) which recently approached boiling point on several occasions over the past few months, most notably in the spat over who owns the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, and soon over other symbols of nationalist pride. And with the escalations coming faster and more frequent with each passing day, there is little room for optimism that despite all Japan is doing that its economy stands any hope of recovery in 2013 (or later).

In fact, the latest escalation in the seemingly neverending saga over a strategically located rock in the East China Sea, came hours ago, when Xinhua reported that Beijing has scrambled two J-10 jets to counter "Japanese military aircraft disrupting the routine patrols of Chinese administrative aircraft."

From Xinhua:

At a press conference, an official with the ministry confirmed that China sent two J-10 fighters to the East China Sea after a Y-8 aircraft was closely followed by two Japanese F-15 fighters as it patrolled the southwest airspace of the East China Sea oil platform on Thursday.

 

The two J-10 fighters were sent to monitor the Japanese fighter jets tailing the Y-8 as well as another Japanese reconnaissance plane spotted in the same airspace, the official said.

 

Furthermore, the official said Japanese military aircraft have been increasingly active in closely scouting Chinese aircraft. The activity zone of Japanese military aircraft has also expanded recently, which is the root cause of security disputes concerning territorial waters and airspace between the two countries.

 

The Chinese military will be on high alert and China will resolutely protect the security of its air defense force and uphold its legitimate rights, the official said.

Suddenly very real concerns over a flare up in military escalations aside, it doesn't look like anyone is ready to back down in what is becoming an ever more heated and rancorous expression of nationalist pride, and it certainly does not appear likely that China will lift its "blockade" on Japanese imports any time soon.

As to how China continues to see what is going on in Japan, we go to another Op-Ed from China Daily printed earlier today, titled "Unwise foreign policy turns Japan into own enemy" and this time even the Chinese propaganda is 100% accurate:

The Japanese economy, under the burden of years of deflation and an aging population, has been the "Patient of Asia" for the last two decades.

 

The Japanese people can cite many reasons for their economic malaise, from bad government policies that led to the forming and bursting of a giant economic bubble in late 1980s and early 1990s to cumbersome mega companies that have been losing money and shedding jobs due to increasing global competition.

 

More recently, the Japanese economy has suffered another blow due to a bitter row with China, a crucial trade and investment partner, ignited by Tokyo's repeated provocations over the Diaoyu Islands, an integral part of Chinese territory.

 

Yet new Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe turned the facts upside down when he claimed Friday that China has deliberately targeted Japanese companies as part of a strategy to confront Japan over the territorial dispute.

 

It is true that economic ties between China and Japan have chilled considerably since former Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda's cabinet decided to "buy" part of the Diaoyu Islands in September despite strong Chinese opposition.

 

The outcome is nothing but natural, as good economic relations are always based on sound political ties. It is naive to believe that Japan can maintain strong trade and investment ties with China while repeatedly provoking China on critical issues.

 

In addition, the pinch felt by Japanese companies results largely from an across-the-board boycott of Japanese goods spontaneously staged by Chinese consumers who felt betrayed by the bellicose Japanese government. The Chinese government has nothing to do with this.

 

Japanese politicians, including Abe, have only themselves to blame, because their brinkmanship is the root cause of the deterioration of China-Japan economic ties.

 

They have also been stoking fears about the so-called "China threat" in the broader Asia-Pacific region and trying to build a coalition of countries against China.

 

For many in China, Abe's latest remarks are just part of an attempt by the Japanese government to depict China as the villain and gain an upper hand in the territorial dispute.

 

But Tokyo is doomed to lose the gamble, as more and more countries have come to realize that China acts responsibly in the international arena and its development is a real blessing for the whole world.

 

Meanwhile, Japan has raised concerns in capitals worldwide that its increasingly hawkish policy toward China will further escalate the situation and pose a serious risk to regional peace and stability.

 

For Japan, its fragile economy is in urgent need of the opportunities a sound China-Japan relationship brings, but Japan's unwise foreign policy has made these opportunities harder to come by.

 

Thus it is of pressing importance that Abe immediately arrest his country's self-destructive tendency and put its foreign relations and economic recovery back on track so as not to waste his second chance at the top.

Bottom line: don't bet so fast on anything remotely resembling inflation or GDP growth in Japan yet. In fact, it may be time to take advantatge of the recent euphoria and to double down on red.

 


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Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Well. From yesterday...

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/754886.shtml

Japan tracer bullets will bring war closer

According to Japanese media, the Japanese government is considering permitting Japanese self-defense forces' fighter jets to fire tracer bullets as warning shots against Chinese surveillance planes which have "infringed" upon Japan's "territorial airspace" over the Diaoyu Islands.

We believe that if Japan starts using tracer bullets, it will definitely trigger a military confrontation between China and Japan. Chinese people will certainly ask the government to send naval and air forces to retaliate.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment true brain
true brain's picture

Obama has resurrected Nixon's "yellow on yellow" strategy.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Except by treaty the US have to help Japan attack China.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:12 | Link to Comment camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

 I know the japs have a history of not being great flyers. They have a history of crashing into our ships in ww2

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:26 | Link to Comment trav777
trav777's picture

J10=crap Lavi clone sold to them by the Israelis.

JDF F15=F15.

China does *not* want a piece of this; they really don't.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:57 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Free Mexican Air Force should be on High Alert as Well.

Remember the Mena!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:23 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

But did the Japanese send out 3 aircraft, to tail the two Chinese aircraft, that were tailing the two Japanese aircraft, that were tailing the Chinese aircraft?

" ... but I don't know why she swallowed the fly, I guess she'll die."

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Actually, Trav, they do want this (J-10) stuff. 

There's only 1 way of testing the stuff the Israelis sold them, and that is to live-test the allegedly "Equivalent but cheaper than F-15" against the Original F-15s.  It's a Limited Engagement of two frothy but devious players, who both could use a nice side-show from domestic woes.

Think of it as Hot Flirting & Foreplay that does not have to be consummated.  What they both gotta watch out for, is that this "feel-good, self-gratification" exercise does not get "out of hand", when a third player 'stirs the froth' -- for their own benefit.  Then they are both 'screwed'.  Know what I'm saying?

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 07:11 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

China needs desperately to kill off a few million males or they're going to see a massive collapse in social stability.  They have millions of unmarried "extra" males (the male population outweighs the female population) who just so happen to be at the bottom of the social totem pole.  China is already doing it's best to keep down inflation, but it won't work much longer as they need to prop up equity and real estate markets.

They see social instability on the horizon and they're actively looking for a confrontation to throw their weight behind.

That having been said -- the confrontation they seek is still a few years off.  AgAu_man is correct that this is all just foreplay.  

What I think will surprise the world however is the Chinese population's extreme enthusiasm for conflict with Japan.   And the PRC is never one to let nationalist enthusiasm go to waste.

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

obviously you don't have any fighter pilot friends.....if so, ask them about the Su-27....we have the F-22 but not many (funding was cut)....we haven't seen China's newest stealth in action. Air superiority....slightly US/Japan.....# of potential pilots and resources....slightly China.

I still do not think it a close match in overall warfare...but China is 'catching up' fast.....

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:53 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

On a more light hearted note (seriously, Australia should do this though):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RenRILqwhJs

 

Another thing to consider Mr. Lawler, China and Russia are frenemies here, and I'm certain they would appreciate the opportunity to fuck some shit up if the U.S. were to get involved.  We would additionally do well to remember that they have a distinct advantage in any M.E. oil/NG grab while this is all going on.  Not sure we have any goodwill left in Europe to drag them kicking and screaming into another military escalation.  Then again, false flags are not terribly difficult to manufacture.  

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment helping_friendl...
helping_friendly_book's picture

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE AMERICANS GETTING THEIR ASS KICKED, BY THE CHINESE, BACK TO THE 38th parallel?

The Chinese had/have no problem throwing 1.5 million volunteer PLA troops to protect their territory. Do we really want to learn this lesson twice?

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 00:02 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE AMERICANS GETTING THEIR ASS KICKED, BY THE CHINESE, BACK TO THE 38th parallel?"

Well.....no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Fatalities:
China: 400.000
US: 37,000

From a fielded Chinese force of 1.2million vs a US deployment of 300k.

So.....no.

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 04:43 | Link to Comment TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

 

 

This time it's Nuclear.

This time the number of survivors [if any]

will determine the "winner".

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 07:43 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

No it's not nuclear this time.   

It won't even be fought anywhere near native population centers and that's *because* of nuclear deterrence.  Attacking native population centers is the redline for nuclear conflict and all sides know this.  This will be fought over extranational territories and will be a contest for resources.   Hegemony and projection of power are at the heart of what's coming.

That having been said, the comparison of combat technology and aircraft capabilities is in many ways a flawed exercise.  China has numbers, cheap labor and fantastic productivity.  The US/Japan have expensive labor and a byzantine corporate legal maze complicating production.   Think of this as a battle of whose military-industrial-complex is more efficient, *not* whose aircraft are more efficient.  This is where the US and Japan need to be truly scared.  The US hasn't fought a war of urgent necessity against a better armed opponent in a very long time.  Traditional strategic analysis makes the consistent mistake of unit comparisons and not comparisons of industrial / corporate efficiency and labor costs. 

The realities that make manufacturing consumer electronics, automobiles and machinery inviable in the US and Japan will also be the achilles heel of the Western MIC. 

This time it's not nuclear.  It's economic.  And we already know who's going to lose.

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

I know you were making a joke.

Actually the real Japanese pilots were great flyers. They put untrained kids in the cockpits of junk planes to be Kamikaze. They taught them just enough for them to take off, they never practiced landing. The Japanese resorted to Kamikaze attacks because we killed so many of their good pilots.

The Japanese military kept using the Zero even after it had been outclassed. Believing the plane was still superior because it was superior in the past. If the Shinden had been completed and brought into service on time, many battles would have gone the other way.

You really don't want to fight the Japanese because you are fighting soldiers brainwashed to attack with insane ferocity and lack of self preservation.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Well so many pilots wouldn't have died if they put freaking armor on their plane... yep, those zeros had ZERO armor.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:35 | Link to Comment Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

dup

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:34 | Link to Comment Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Less armor=less weight made the Zero's flying range greater, it was just outclassed later in the war.

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Cyrano - yes, and the fuel delivery system to the engine was inferior to our planes so much so that certain arial maneuvers were not possible with the zero.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Are you sure you're not thinking Spitfire with the carb. vs. Me 109 with direct fuel injection?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:07 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

When the USA industrial juggernaut was able to put bigger and better engines into dog fighters, so that they had their cake (armor, big guns) and ate it too (speed and performance), the light, fast, and manueverable Zero's were outclassed. 

When the USA population juggernaut was able to learn from early mistakes and flood the front lines with highly skilled pilots and further fight the battle of manpower attrition, Japanese ability and daring was far outweighed.

IN any case, don't pick a fight you can't win.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:27 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

The Japanese seem to have a long history of being slow or unable to adapt.

The Banzai charge worked great against poorly disciplined, bolt-action rifle Chinese infantry, but the Japanese kept using this once-successful tactic against US Marines with semi-automatics.

The only reason they ended up fighting America is because they decided Russia was too powerful, since they got into a tank battle with them, in which the Russians used air support and the Japanese high command forbade their field commander from doing the same.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Marines with semi-automatic weapons, nice call. Too much history, too much samurai legend, too much literature, not enough math and science, and common sense. 

This was demonstrated in a most underrated battle scene in the movie, "The Thin Red Line", when an enlisted American soldier with a stolen .45 cuts down three Japanese soldiers on a downhill Banzai charge just within a few feet of the bayonet tips.  He was behind a rock, until he heard them shout, he then confronted them.  Three shots, three dead soldiers.  Talk about bad tactics meeting solid weaponry, and old-fashioned American opportunism. 

 

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 04:20 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

The "Banzai charge" wasn't a tactic used in China. It wasn't a tactic at all. It was a maneuver borne out of frustration of individual commanders to penetrate Amercian defenses for a variety of reasons.  The decision to "banzai" was always an indivdual one that arose from the peculiar military ethos of the last IJA, rather than from any doctrine.  Just as frequently, different commanders in similar situations ordered disperal and infiltration ("He's in the trees!) or fighting withdrawals (Iwo & Okinawa).

Furthermore, "banzai"charges were almost always attempted with other flanking manuevers, the charge being a distraction, but the ploy rarely worked because of terrain and command and control issues in the late IJA.

But kudos for you for watching all the John Wayne movies.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'You really don't want to fight the Japanese because you are fighting soldiers '

They're fucking Gameboy addicts.

Soldiers my arse.

Those days are long gone.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:46 | Link to Comment BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

Which will come back and bite us when they realize they can make a dozen armed drones for the cost of one fighter plane.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:03 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

The Japanese pre-war trained IJNAF pilots were the best, and with the Zero Sen they ruled the Pacific six months.  Losing those four carriers at Midway, they also lost the planes and most of the pilots.

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 06:14 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

How can you be the best when you lose initiative in only 6 months?

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:04 | Link to Comment BattlegroundEur...
BattlegroundEurope2011's picture

You really don't want to fight the Japanese because you are fighting soldiers brainwashed to attack with insane ferocity and lack of self preservation.

 

That may have been true in WW2.

But now you have a bunch of Manga luving bukkake Zirp monkeys.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:30 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

The Japanese still seem to have a focus on being a master of something. In their current circumstances, they focus on being the world's best at odd and obscure things, but if they decided to focus on being the best at something useful, they may surprise.

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:55 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"You really don't want to fight the Japanese because you are fighting soldiers brainwashed to attack with insane ferocity and lack of self preservation."

Yeah, but at this point where talking about a pretty bitchified male population.  Though, the same could be said of ours quite frankly.  

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:30 | Link to Comment earnulf
earnulf's picture

Cost of a Chinese Frigate : 260 million dollars

Cost of a F-15 Fighter : 50 Million dollars

Air to Ship Missiles : Priceless

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

Cute. Now look into how much it costs the Chinese to build a land to sea andti ship missile and how expensive our carriers are.

 

 

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 00:09 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"Cute. Now look into how much it costs the Chinese to build a land to sea andti ship missile and how expensive our carriers are."

And then go back to looking at the cost of the Chinese missile boat vs the cost of one air launched anti-ship missile fired by one of the the 60 or so planes equiped to do so on one aircraft carrier.  

And also note the 75 mi range of the best-in-class Sunburn that the Chinese field vs the 450 mile unrefueled range of one of those 60 US carrier based aircraft.

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 06:20 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

The Chinese have the DF-21 ballistic anti-ship missiles. Range: 1100-1900 miles.

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:09 | Link to Comment Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

I'd say that would be more of a demonstration of someone who is... what's the best word... "determined" while looking desperation in the face.  I couldn't possibly imagine what kind of courage that would take but one thing is for sure about "courage", the Japanese have it.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:45 | Link to Comment flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

You insult the name of Saburo Sakai.

There were a number of other really skilled Japanese pilots, but unfortunately the Zero, fast and nimble as it was, didn't have very good armor (as in no armor at all) or self sealing gas tanks.

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 01:13 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

I hear zimbabwe has a kick ass air force

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:28 | Link to Comment eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Sure, Barry's gonna honor that treaty...thismay be the one time I agree with him if he doesn't.  If Abe wants to fuck with the Chinese let him go at it alone..it'sreal easy to be a little prick when you have a big dude standing behind you.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:53 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Sorry to see that Fuki thing and the diaper shortage has driven them to these extremes of desperation. Does Abe think he is being patriotic by throwing his people under the bus?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

The Japanese are always happy to dive under the bus, they don't need to be thrown.

I work with the Japanese, I know.

Even if a plan is crashing and burning, they will see it through to the end because you do not stop until the plan is fully implemented. If the plan has failed in the end, anyone involved with it either resigns in shame or is terminated.

Now time for new plan. New plan work, old plan gone, people make old plan gone, new people make new plan work.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:34 | Link to Comment Donnie Duvanie
Donnie Duvanie's picture

Either that or they lose their heads. Maybe that's what the Chinese are really so upset about - the number of chinese prisoners that were beheaded on Chinese mainland during the war. I don't see how petroleum can replace lives, but it woudl be a nice way for the Japanese to really to say they're sorry.

 

"The Nanking Massacre or Nanjing Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, was a mass murder and war rape that occurred during the six-week period following the Japanese capture of the city of Nanking (Nanjing), the former capital of the Republic of China, on December 13, 1937 during the Second Sino-Japanese War. During this period, hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and disarmed soldiers were murdered by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.[1][2] Widespread rape and looting also occurred.[3][4] Historians and witnesses have estimated that 250,000 to 300,000 people were killed.[5] (Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre)

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:54 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Christopher Bale and NiNi perform stunningly in this must-see docudrama (Flowers of War) describing the Nanjing invasion:

 

In 1937, as the Japanese army brutally invades the Chinese city of Nanking, an American mortician is trapped inside a western cathedral and vows to protect a group of young schoolgirls and 13 courtesans who are seeking refuge from the soldiers.

 

http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/The_Flowers_of_War/70221406?locale=en-US

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:03 | Link to Comment ptolemy_newit
ptolemy_newit's picture

where is this grave of 250,000 and the name list that gooes with it?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Have you forgotten Panetta reading the Japanese the riot act when they threatened to get closer to China and insisted we leave Okinawa?  Take a longer view. 

The Japanese are a satrapy of the US.  They may not like this, they may not want this, but there it is.

When the US really gets out of Okinawa, then things may turn around between China and Japan.  I'm not holding my breath.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:00 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Well good luck with that since some Chinese analysts are claiming that Okinawa is Chinese territory.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:36 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Treaty?

What's that word mean?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:42 | Link to Comment agNau
agNau's picture

Treaty = Compromise = bipartisan

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:58 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

It means in the face of pending defense cuts, starting a war turns that face away pretty quickly.  

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:41 | Link to Comment oak
oak's picture

therefore, if japnese would like to fire the first shot, it must have the permission from usa, because of the treaty. abe is testing usa. so far, the speculation is that usa does not allow it. yesterday, japan claimed that it does not have such intention to fire the tracer. does every one thinks that we will get into the war with china only becaus of abe's madness? the treaty, in fact, prevent us to start the war with china, or go to the war. it is a double-edged sword.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment reload
reload's picture

sounds more like a blunt sword

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 00:18 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"therefore, if japnese would like to fire the first shot, it must have the permission from usa, because of the treaty. abe is testing usa. so far, the speculation is that usa does not allow it."

 

If push comes to shove the Japanese won't be giving a shit what we have to say about it, despite the claims to the contrary, as Mitsubishi F-15s drop high yield H bombs on major Chinese cities.  

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:01 | Link to Comment oak
oak's picture

"Bottom line: don't bet so fast on anything remotely resembling inflation or GDP growth in Japan yet."

there is thinking that china uses this oppertunaty to damage japanese economic. time will tell.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

There is also thinking that Japan cannot, will not, does not admit errors, at any point in it's history.

You got yourselves into this mess by fucking your own economy in the ass, then letting Ishihara push the right-wing agenda re: Senkaku.

Japan loses. Demographically. Economically. Militarily. Totally. Get your head out of your ass.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:50 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

Isn't most of our shit in and around Iran, to help Israel (with whom we have no treaty) defend itself by attacking Iran to stop Iran from doing what it is already not doing?

And let's say we have a carrier or two.. how much trouble would the Chinese have sinking them?   I suspect Ivan might be willing to help them do so...

 

 

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

The US has a long, documented TRADITION of honoring Treaties.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 16:13 | Link to Comment AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

The Chinese are just Beta-Testing their "Made in China" against the "Made in Israel" and "Made in USA" toys.  So are we.  Both sides know this too.  The masses don't... they are nicely distracted.  Dumb sheep!

QED

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 21:11 | Link to Comment sadpanda
sadpanda's picture

That treaty is backed by the full faith of the united states government and politicians. Just like our t-bills. We live in interesting times.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment Savvy
Savvy's picture

True. But if the US attacks Iran (China's biggest energy supplier) then the US may find itself fighting fronts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Uganda, defending Japan and fighting China. And fighting Russia over Syria if that piece of stupidity goes on.

US backs off Iran or goes to war with China. US backs off Syria or goes to war with Russia. So far bush/obama only stab the little guys in the back I don't expect that will change.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:37 | Link to Comment agNau
agNau's picture

How dare the Chinese create a competing reserve currency.
This was Very predictable. Everyone else moving from "The" platform has seen wrist slap. Yen trashing will continue. Escalation will continue.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Smoke.  The Japanese should use smoke, to mark their territory. 

Different colors for different levels of alert.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

perhaps the Chinese could use a page from an old playbook and get the Japanese people hooked on opium.  Hell knows, the US is producing a lot of it in Afghanistan.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:06 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

That would be hilarious in a historic way but not very hilarious in a people's way.

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 00:24 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"perhaps the Chinese could use a page from an old playbook and get the Japanese people hooked on opium.  Hell knows, the US is producing a lot of it in Afghanistan."

Maybe we can get the Chinese hooked on green and white paper.     They get us hooked on sub-cost iShit for the entitled.   And the Japanese hook themselves on Hello Kitty and emo comics.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:34 | Link to Comment NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

... too expensive and too slow. Chinese triads r leading the cristal meth production. South Africa enjoys it every day. Japan should enjoy it, too - the grandpas in dypers could need some kick before they die.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Yes, and Hopium is not only consumed very broadly in the US, but also promoted extensively with the G8 and G20.  It helps lift the GDP.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Not sure I follow.  Where I come from tracer bullets aren't made out of rubber.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:09 | Link to Comment achmachat
achmachat's picture

you shoot tracer bullets across the enemy's bow as a very visible warning.

regular bullets have almost the same visual effect as the pilot going "pew! pew!"

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:20 | Link to Comment HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

So I guess what they really mean is load all tracers instead one one every x rounds, and then fire warning shots and hope that you don't accidentally hit anything?  Yeah, that's a pretty dumb idea.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:30 | Link to Comment JackT
JackT's picture

It's like the movie TOP GUN. I wonder if any of them are flying around upside down flipping off the other?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:30 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

War is bullish! More destruction means more rebuilding. Therefore WWIII should send the markets to the moon!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Careful guys, it's better to lose face than to lose ass.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:03 | Link to Comment ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

"You can blind fold them with dental floss"   Dice.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Pin the tail on the monkey

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:03 | Link to Comment Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

WAR, exactly how krugman would have fixed japans problems

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

War is a little different than having your ass smashed into oblivion.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:03 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Solved...

 

 

Bernanke...in the library...with a printer.

 

Fuck you CB's for your unintended consequenses of fucking full retard power grabbing.  Fuckers.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:03 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Oil.  Oil.  Oil.

Watch this happen and then sit back and start to question the official reports of oil supply.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

My money is on Horrywood & Iceman... No wait ~ I'm going with Goose & Mavelick...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:11 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I can hear it now:

"Tower, this is ahh Maverick requesting fryby."

pods

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:12 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Fryby's bitchez!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:15 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

High ARERT!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:18 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You were in a 4G negative dive with a MIG?... May I ask what you were doing Lt.?

~~~

"Keeping up RERATIONS"

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:29 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"It is a stoly about a man's struggre with his own homosexuarity. That's what Top Gun is, man!"

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19yoq_quentin-tarantino-gay-top-gun_fu...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:51 | Link to Comment lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Is that you, Tom Brokaw? I didn't know you were a ZH watcher

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment kralizec
kralizec's picture

I love ZH!  Y'all almost made me Roker my shorts laughing!  !

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 16:15 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

If Chinese Tom Cruise is anything like Chinese Ricki Martin ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TS5tvbYJsc

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 22:06 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Grow a sense of fucking humor, negs. I've worked, played music, studied martial arts and partied with many Japanese. I always wondered what they were ripping on me for (in Japanese) @ lunch. They were amazed at my chopstick skills and then they were drunk by 12:30.

Yashida Tatsuya - Drummer/composer extraordinaire - Whatever kit is on the stage

Sat, 01/12/2013 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Gaffing_Nome
Gaffing_Nome's picture

Hmmm. This thread is pan something. As it goes lots o codgerish round here. I was going to get into something; lost interest. However...most piq. Anyways, spent lots of time in Japan, had Japanese roommates. Kicker. Was a studio drummer in the LA time passed and how the fuck did I end a damn PM bug. Here's my point...High probable we've been in the same room. I toured Japan many times, same with lots of places. If you played with him and others associated with that stuff (I can't remember the damn names for the Japanese bands. Last thing I remember was with banana melts, boredoms and temple acid mothers something.

Ummm..."long live...music and, fuck it. Can't be jolly much knowing ill never see lots of good ppl/go there. Fuka-Fucked. Odd, two uncles were pacific theatre, dad was Death-Marchy Bataan style. Too many jags round these parts flying into Tokyo to go Full-Tokyo Stupid on taco, seven stars...hello kitty? Cabbage Patch kids are the rage. MOAR DEMAND punch perms on em. (Had similar XP /w the natives mumbling about the chop-stick skills. Did they have you do the 1 grain of rice chop-grab? Attention-grabber in Shibuya insanity

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment S5936
S5936's picture

I kee you ...10 minute

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:48 | Link to Comment NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

Hedgers, don't forget GODZIRRAAAA!

Que the music from Blue Oyster Cult and clear the JAF fighters to engage. Krugman demands WAR!

We are screwed...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:50 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

oh NO!... There goes Tokyo!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment busted by the b...
busted by the bailout's picture

The last depression ended with WW2. 

This one?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:07 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The last depression ended as Middle East oil came online.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:53 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

You need to have shit to put the oil in, don't you?

 

A good way to have a great economy is to bomb the shit out of all the other ones for seven or 8 years.   The current Depression will end with world government, or, at least, a world banking power.

 

Guess who'll run it?

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:04 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Ah soooooo.
Leason flooor no lecluvelry is too many erectric cars?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 19:07 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Guess who'll run it?

The Three Six Mafia, of course.  Acadamy Award Winners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxLaO2Ku-Ts

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:06 | Link to Comment the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Not untill they start shooting each others planes out of the sky will this mean anything.

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:11 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Almost.

You have to understand that Japanese school children are taught from an early age that in August of 1941 the US embargoed oil from Japan.  The US was the Saudi Arabia of that time, a big oil exporter.  FDR embargoed Japan, in an attempt to (pick the phrasing you want) stop their war in China or to dictate Japanese foreign policy.

Japan had to seek another supply source, Indonesia, and the US Pacific Fleet could stop that, so they bombed Pearl Harbor.  Four years later they became the only country in history to be nuked as an act of war . . . twice.

Japan kids are taught all this happened because Japan has no domestic oil.  None.  For 70 years this has been taught.  Now they seem to have FINALLY found some domestic oil and they see that in their view China is trying to steal it.

They Will Not Tolerate This.  People are not evaluating this correctly.  They will not let China do this.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:25 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 The Japanese public is not oil-thirsty for war with China.

However, certain Japanese leaders are all to happy to serve their occupier-overlords by whipping up war fever, confrontations with China, and engaging in an arms build-up.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:41 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I thought it was the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Wasn't it the work of Saddam Hussein?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:13 | Link to Comment Dugald
Dugald's picture

Nah, it was those pesky Orstrayrians...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

F Sawyer

 You are apparently under the false impression

that the post-war Japan public is the same as pre-war Japanese public,

and post-war occupied Japan is as dependent on hypothetical oil from the Diaoyu Islands,

as was pre-war imperial Japan on then actual US oil.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You are apparently under the false impression that I get my data from anything but John Belushi movies...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

heh

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:53 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

I'm gonna watch "1941" again, thanks for reminding.  Seen A Hse. too many times.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 18:37 | Link to Comment hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

Hollywood!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

I thought it was the Palestinians?

 

I vaguely remember some foreign fellows the cops pulled over on 9/11 assuring us of that - and indeed, there was a mysterious phone call about "Palestinians" in white vans that very day.

 

We ought to invade Palestineland as payback for the USS Maine, anyway.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:53 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The Japanese public is not oil-thirsty for war with China.
___________________

An 'american' middle class is always thirsty for war.

You do not run a business of extorting the weak, farming the poor without contingencies.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:29 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Ananon= poop on roadside. cHinEse people want all land/sea of southeast asia for themselves. Velly velly gleedy peoples. Have cHinEse people no shame? Why is it that cHinEse people fight with India, Tibet, Vietnam, Phillipines, Japan, etc over borders control? Velly velly gleedy I tell you... Have you no shame for your people?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:47 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Wait for 'americans' to take over in China.

At this point, it will no longer be lust for all the land/sea of SA, but land/sea in the world.

Because it is well known that the world's resources are all for 'americans' to consume.

The cry for symetry. 'Americans' are so superior in the greed department.

Yet they feel obligated to mention land grabbing efforts on tiny patches of land as decent.

Somehow, 'americans', who keep boasting how exceptional they are, do not accept the fields they are exceptional in.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Djeee, AnAnon, can't you do any better? You keep rehashing the same old crap, day in, day out, over and over. Very poor effort on your part.

But hey, substandard Chinese citizenism is as AnAnonymous does.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Chinese American citizenism blobbing up Senkaku.

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Interesting comment... Are you Japanese ?

I was not aware that these Islands had oil on or near them. Apparently, niether does ZeroHedge

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Harry Stamper is working on it... [But he keeps having to take timeouts to hit 3-woods into Greenpeace hippies]...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Interesting comment... Are you Japanese ?
_________________________

For 'americans', the group is all...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

(in John Wayne voice)

As far as I'm concerned everybody else but us Americuns is a Jap.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

“I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.”

John Wayne

Funny when you read this now. With so many 'americans' around in the world and so many people trying to keep their wealth selfishly for themselves.

'Americanism' has paved the way.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:59 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:

Funny when you read this now.

Well, sometimes you are funny and sometimes just stale and boring.

With so many 'americans' around in the world and so many people trying to keep their wealth selfishly for themselves.

Stale and boring. With this sorts of lacklustering effortation your time would be somehow better spent finishing your laundry tasks.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:30 | Link to Comment ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Why you no go away? Why you still here? Shut up and get me an eggroll!

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:11 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The problem is the Japanese call them Senkaku and the Chinese want to call them Diayou.  There are also two sets of islands under Chinese dispute -- The Senkaku and then far to the south others they are arguing about with Vietnam and the Philippines.  

From the Senkaku wiki:

After it was discovered in 1968 that oil reserves might be found under the sea near the islands,[4] Japan's sovereignty over them has been disputed by the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Republic of China (ROC, commonly known as Taiwan) following the transfer of administration from the United States to Japan in 1971. 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:42 | Link to Comment busted by the b...
busted by the bailout's picture

Thanks.  I wondered why they have been so fired up about a tiny uninhabited island.  I thought the Chinese were just flexing their new found power and wealth, and yanking Japan's chain because they hate them so much.

It's a big sea; too bad they can't just split it down the middle.  But that would make too much sense; it is better to greedily fight to the death over it so only one can have it all.  I assume China wins in the end, fight or no.

I'm curious about how middle east oil ended the GD, as opposed to WW2; hadn't heard that before either.

TIA, Busted

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

China is not as cohesive as you might think regardless of the news hostilities are not wanted on either side.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

It's a conclusion by chronology.

It's a lot like "The Reagan Years" of the 1980s and good economic times, which just happened to coincide with the arrival of Alaskan oil.  A lot of this stuff is scattered through history.  People always want to think their actions mattered.

World oil production was about 1 million barrels/day in 1939, which was the year the very first tanker left Saudi Arabia carrying oil.  By 1946, that number was 1.7 million bpd, most of the rise coming from the Middle East.  Note that rise took place despite destruction of the Romanian fields and distraction of the world's efforts to WW II.  Oil output still grew because the mother lode, the Middle East, came on line.

Cheap oil trumps economics, because economics is bullshit.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

The South Koreans, and for that matter the North Koreans, are no fans of the Japanese {the have a claim of their own}.

 

I'm not sure Japan wants to open up this particular can of worms.  Even if the Koreas are sidelined in any conflict, I think the Russians will, at a minimum, provide some assistance.

 

But I largely agree with your post - the Japanese have a real hard on for some small semblance of energy independence.

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Titus Flavius C...
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus's picture

Also - yes - economics is bullshit in the sense that religion is bullshit.

 

Doesn't stop powerful people from basing their selfish, shitty, myopic decisions on them both.

 

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Payne
Payne's picture

They give us Global Warming and gun control debate in the US and in Japan and China they have aircraft on alert status to distract from the disaster of politicians policies.  

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Global warming caused by wasted food, nonetheless.  Another reason to pay farmers not to farm.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Right on the mark.

Biden 2016 !  Krugman for Fed Chair, Corzine for SEC

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:06 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

And a dildo in every pot.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:09 | Link to Comment I need more cowbell
I need more cowbell's picture

Total over-reaction. One of the radar guys just said " There's a little nip in the air".

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:22 | Link to Comment irie1029
irie1029's picture

 LOL

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:59 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

ROR

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

rorring on the froor, rmao

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:04 | Link to Comment ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

Cowbell!  I was going through the 'Best of ZH'  (2009?)  when I saw and remembered your avatar.  Brought back mammories.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Priceless

I'm sitting here eyes tearing, trying not to laugh too loud so nobody'll asks me what the joke is....

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

What the over/under on this game?

 

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:15 | Link to Comment kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

China and 100 million

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

What the over/under on this game?

Over: crap from AnAnonymous

Under: his local roadsides

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Nice. Get to test out those new Chinese home grown jets.

Good luck Chuck with wittling down the MIC if an F-15 goes down in flames.

The price on the J-35 will double and they will order more.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

What's happening with rice futures?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:04 | Link to Comment TomGa
TomGa's picture

"World View: China Quadruples Rice Imports for No Apparent Reason"

"United Nations agricultural experts are reporting confusion, after figures show that China imported 2.6 million tons of rice in 2012, substantially more than a four-fold increase over the 575,000 tons imported in 2011. The confusion stems from the fact that there is no obvious reason for vastly increased imports, since there has been no rice shortage in China. The speculation is that Chinese importers are taking advantage of low international prices, but all that means is that China's own vast supplies of domestically grown rice are being stockpiled. Why would China suddenly be stockpiling millions of tons of rice for no apparent reason? Perhaps it's related to China's aggressive military buildup and war preparations in the Pacific and in central Asia."

 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/01/07/8-Jan-13-World-View-China-...

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 13:10 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

To fed all the no people in the empty cities, silly.

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 14:10 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Perhaps it's related to China's aggressive military buildup and war preparations in the Pacific and in central Asia."

YA THINK?

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

SENKAKU ISLAND

Fri, 01/11/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

So stocks creep higher on the news.

 

I guess because if they go to war they wipe out each others factories and we get to fill the orders?

 

yepper...buy buy buy

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