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More Than Half Of Republicans Prepared To Let US Default

Tyler Durden's picture


Yesterday, Citigroup floated the idea that a temporary government shutdown once the full array of debt ceiling extension measures expires some time in mid/late February, is possible, which would also mean the first technical default of the US depending on the prioritization of US debt payments. Now, Politico reports that this idea is rapidly gaining support within the GOP and that "more than half of GOP members are prepare to allow default unless Obama agress to dramatic cuts he has repeatedly said he opposes." It gets better... or worse depending how many ES contracts on is long: "Many more members, including some party leaders, are prepared to shut down the government to make their point. House Speaker John Boehner “may need a shutdown just to get it out of their system,” said a top GOP leadership adviser. “We might need to do that for member-management purposes — so they have an endgame and can show their constituents they’re fighting.”" Of course, at this point not even a US government bankruptcy may send the ES more than one or two ticks lower. After all, there is no risk of anything happening anywhere, any time.

More from Politico:

House Republicans are seriously entertaining dramatic steps, including default or shutting down the government, to force President Barack Obama to finally cut spending by the end of March.


The idea of allowing the country to default by refusing to increase the debt limit is getting more widespread and serious traction among House Republicans than people realize, though GOP leaders think shutting down the government is the much more likely outcome of the spending fights this winter.


"I think it is possible that we would shut down the government to make sure President Obama understands that we’re serious,” House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers of Washington state told us. “We always talk about whether or not we’re going to kick the can down the road. I think the mood is that we’ve come to the end of the road.”


The country would eventually default if House Republicans refuse to raise the debt limit, which the Treasury estimates will hit in late February or early March. The government would shut down if House Republicans instead were to refuse to extend the law funding current government operations on March 27.


Boehner assumes he can ultimately talk members out of default, but he is so wounded and weakened from last month’s tax-hike battle that the speaker might very well be wrong. Obama assumes Republicans would never be so foolish as to put the economy at risk to win a spending fight. Conservatives say he’s definitely wrong on that score. They say he’s the foolish and reckless one for piling up $6 trillion in debt on his watch.


The coming spending fights make the Christmastime tax increase battle seem like child’s play. While everyone knew the tax drama would end with the rich paying more taxes, no one can telegraph how the coming spending fights will unfold. And the economic stakes are more dire.


“For too long, the pitch was, we’ll deal with it next time,” said Rep. Jason Chaffetz, a conservative from Utah. He said GOP lawmakers are prepared to shut things down or even default if Obama doesn’t bend on spending. “No one wants to default, but we are not going to continue to give the president a limitless credit card.”


Starting Monday, Boehner will huddle with his leadership team to discuss his preliminary thinking on a spending strategy. A source who attended meetings to prepare for those private talks said GOP leaders are authentically at a loss on how to control members who don’t respond to the normal incentives of wanting to help party leaders or of avoiding situations — like default — that could be public relations nightmares.


And while historically a US default would send the USD soaring on a flight to safety, this time around nobody knows what will happen, as the algos out there are, for some amusing reason, pushing more capital into the EUR. And with the weak USD to strong ES correlation, it just may be that a US default would send the S&P 500 limit up.


Perfectly rational "market."


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Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:09 | 3150260 GetZeeGold
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I'll believe it when I see it. Beohner will have to find his nuts first.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:09 | 3150263 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

Maybe today. Just wait until the time comes.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:12 | 3150268 trav777
trav777's picture

this will just alienate "moderates" who watch fucking CNN.

Meanwhile, the demoncraps will rally around the devil and will NEVER break ranks.  It's prison theory political system.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:15 | 3150276 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Being moderate is getting really expensive.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:23 | 3150295 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Don't wild swings in the marketplace trigger derivatives or something?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:27 | 3150302 GetZeeGold
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It's suppose to......but there's no way in hell we're going to let it happen.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:40 | 3150324 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Boehner's a Bitch, throw the switch!

(I think they're just looking for an excuse to further delay tax refunds. Broke bastards...yeah, I'm kidding. Maybe)

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 15:25 | 3151725 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

US default would hurt republicans the most since they depend on government welfare in defense spending and giving military pensions to high school drop outs and social security medicare to worthless idiots on global labor market.


EXCEPT oil rich states.





Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:10 | 3150326 espirit
espirit's picture

Like, Headfake man...

Public acceptance or derision?

I'm sure it was derision that killed the trillion dollah poodle coin. Make it so with the budget. 


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:45 | 3150453 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Nobody is shutting down the government.  The Republicans' BS veneer is getting torn off and they are in a panic.  They need to desperately maintain some semblance of credibility.  They are a nanometer away from rump party status.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:51 | 3151175 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Take the blinders off. Both parties are in the same boat. If the Democrats can't spend, they don't appeal to anyone. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 14:22 | 3151393 Dick Gazinia
Dick Gazinia's picture

There would not be a default.  Tax revenue would still be coming in and debt payments would be made just everybodies gubment cheese would have to take a hit.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 15:12 | 3151653 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I believe Manatory (required by law) spending now exceeds the tax revenues from all sources. So, yes that would be a default.

I just googled it and found this, so I am correct:

3) In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue. Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion, and mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion. In sum, mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion… exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion.

For Fiscal Year 2012 which just ended 37 days ago, that shortfall increased 43% to $251.8 billion.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 16:37 | 3151959 11b40
11b40's picture

Dick Gazinia said "debt payments would be made just everybodies gubment cheese would have to take a hit."

Brush up on your critical reading skills.  His point is, they would juggle the books for a bit, but there would be no default....reduce payments, send some home, etc.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 15:20 | 3151701 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Whether the parties are the same or not isn't the point here and you missed it completely.  The point is one of the parties has been caught in a situation that questions its very existence.  The two party system is a fraud, but the people who run things find the illusion of two parties to be useful.  Also the careerists who depend on the Republican party are plenty worried.  One part of the illusion and perhaps the entire illusion is in trouble.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 15:27 | 3151732 11b40
11b40's picture

Absolutely incorrect, JLee.  It is you wearing blinders.  The Dummycrats sre in a far sturdier boat on the National level, which is why Obummer has 2 election victories under his belt and the Dems picked up seats in both the Senate and the House.  The Republicants are seriously divided, and with the Tea Party hijacked by the neocons & dark special interest money, and compromised by the sorry candidates they supported/elected, they are headed for the sewer.

Obummer just kicked their asses at the polls and again on the tax cut issue.  He is about to kick it again on the debt ceiling.  this is almost too easy for him, because these Republicant fools in the House are totally tone deaf.  Already, Michelle Bachman is working on new dead-end legislation to end "Obammacare".  They are also busy trying to de-fund planned aprenthood again, plus the mental midget from GA, Dr. Phil Gingry, is busy talking about "legitimate rape".  Pity poor Bonner, trying to herd these cats.  Dummer than dirt, but from "safe" gerrymandered districts, they only care that they personally get re-elected, regardless of cost to their party or the country.  Anytime a half-way sane Republicant puts forward a centerist position, the loons raise a ruckus and shout him down.  The public perception of the GOP gets worse by the day, and perception becomes reality at the polls.

Try to watch this play out with an unbiased eye.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 18:44 | 3152369 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I'm not incorrect. The system has been gamed by the age-old-method of bribing the masses with entitlements and rigged voting that doesn't use paper ballots. It doesn't take any real skill to hand out money and assume control. It works until the entire scam blows up when everyone goes bust as once. This has been repeated throughout history.

And it will end. And when it does, both parties will be blamed and finished forever. The Democrats will be blamed for causing it and the Republicans will be blamed for not stopping it. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:38 | 3150323 CH1
CH1's picture

These are just predictable head-fakes.

In the end, they will do as they are told.... as always.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:58 | 3150675 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

They'll whisple their tails like a doggy who wants a cookie.


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:50 | 3150351 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Republicans never cared about deficits until it became politically expedient from them to do so. Remember what Cheney said,  "reagan taught us that deficits don't matter"

With 100 trillion in unfunded liabilities it is a stretch to blame Obama for all the debt problems

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:54 | 3150481 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

But supposedly they care NOW.....the Demoncraps still don't care....

Almost 6 TRILLION in new debt in 5 years and the Obozo wants to spend more. He is a dangerous MORON.

The repugs were very late to the party, but they claim to get it now, we'll see.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:47 | 3150854 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The O'bamabot cared back when he was a senator.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:52 | 3151185 JLee2027
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Cheney said,  "reagan taught us that deficits don't matter"

Except there's no proof Cheney ever said that. It was a rumor started by the Democratic Underground boards.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 16:32 | 3151929 11b40
11b40's picture

Wrong again.  There is plenty of documentation, and it was widely discussed at the time he said it.  Take your dis-inmformation elsewhere.  B.S. doesn't work well here.

Cheney to Treasury: "Deficits don't matter"

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill was told "deficits don't matter" when he warned of a looming fiscal crisis.

O'Neill, fired in a shakeup of Bush's economic team in December 2002, raised objections to a new round of tax cuts and said the president balked at his more aggressive plan to combat corporate crime after a string of accounting scandals because of opposition from "the corporate crowd," a key constituency.

O'Neill said he tried to warn Vice President Dick Cheney that growing budget deficits-expected to top $500 billion this fiscal year alone-posed a threat to the economy. Cheney cut him off. "You know, Paul, Reagan proved deficits don't matter," he said, according to excerpts. Cheney continued: "We won the midterms (congressional elections). This is our due." A month later, Cheney told the Treasury secretary he was fired.

The vice president's office had no immediate comment, but John Snow, who replaced O'Neill, insisted that deficits "do matter" to the administration.

Source: [X-ref O'Neill] Adam Entous, Reuters, on AOL News Jan 11, 2004

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 18:37 | 3152361 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Oh excuse me it was a book written by a fired sell books. Boy that's proof.

No, it's not proof.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 20:46 | 3152684 11b40
11b40's picture

Geez, dude....just google this shit & stop worshipping at the party altar.  There are many accounts that were published around the same time, and Cheney NEVER denied it.

I lived this stuff in real time.  Cheney actually meant that deficits don't the voters, because they won the elections and could do as they wanted regarding the deficits.  And run them up, they did  Paul O'Neil was not on board with their reckless spending and he was fired by Cheney.

That does change the conventional meaning of the way the dummycrats use the quote, but Cheney said it, and they were about as reckless and irresponsible as could be.

You work for Faux News?


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 21:29 | 3152746 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Cheney isn't going to comment on some book....sheesh come on.

I don't worship any party, except truth. But you do.

No more replies. You are a hack.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:15 | 3150274 TerminalDebt
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He can borrow 2 from Nancy Pelosi, she has too many nuts.

In any case, with a name like Boner you are expected to have nuts

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:15 | 3150278 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

He's crying on them right now.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:58 | 3150362 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

Pelosi is wearing his and Reids!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:19 | 3150403 tiwimon
tiwimon's picture

Boehner find his nuts?


Impossible, (s)he has a mangina. 


Someone with that little will and backbone has to, its just the natural order of things.

If Boehner even has a man card it needs to be shredded. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:37 | 3150436 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Boner AKA Cockbreath will do whatever his masters tell him to do. He swallows, not a spitter

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:53 | 3150483 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Maybe he could borrow Nancy Pelosi's.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:57 | 3150499 NewAmericaNow
NewAmericaNow's picture

The GOP citizens are as dependent on Govt largess and salaries as the democrats. If the US defaults, Social Security, Medicare, etc will take a big hit. What about the millions of high paying govt jobs cut and the ensueing increase in social service spending that will create. There is no easy way out. America is devolving into chaos and there is no real solution and the politicians know it. Why  do you think they want the guns? It's not because of twenty school children. They all know what is coming. I think it would be wise to brace for the inevitable impact of economic crisis that is fast approaching.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:43 | 3150610 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

It's got nothing to do with testosterone levels. It's got everything to do with discretionary spending, most of which goes to security. We're in the hole to the tune of about 1/2 a trillion per year. Want to balance the budget. Here's an easy almost 100% painless way to cut the deficit in half overnight.

1) Get rid of the absolutely useless TSA.

2) Slash the Dept of Homeland security. It's mostly topheavy with bearucrats anyway. It's overdue for pruning.

3) Get rid of at least half the forward deployed military bases around the world which serve no fucking purpose whatsoever, other than tyo flesh out the resume of some bloated ass 2 star generals.

4) Stop throwing money at so many defence programs that haven't proven their value or worth, and in the process get rid of some bureaucrat brass all across the armed forces.

The net result would be a leaner, smarter military. We'd actually be more secure, not less. And AT LEAST $250 billion would be cut from the deficit overnight. How fucking hard is that?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:11 | 3150983 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Everything you just mentioned is designed to maintain a slipping grip on dollar hedgenomy.  The established power structure in the US/UK is up shit creek without it.  They don't want to be up shit creek.  Ergo, "defense"/"security" spending.  I promise we don't have a say in the matter.  Any threat of actual cuts will be answered by yet another false flag.  

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 03:36 | 3153436 Chewybunny
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Except that even if you cut the entirety of the military budget you'd STILL have a deficit...So yeah, no, not the best solution.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:09 | 3150261 midtowng
midtowng's picture

It happened in 1995. I can see a short-term shutdown happening.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:17 | 3150281 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Yes, I remember 1995.  We had a functioning economy that didnt freak out.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:28 | 3150304 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

oh yeah, I remember when we had a functioning economy ... it was a long time ago.  'Free trade' fixed that problem for us.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:35 | 3150315 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

The real risk, at least from their POV, is that the public sees how much better life is with less government.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:48 | 3150345 Shevva
Shevva's picture

We had a public sector stike last year when all the public sector leechs went on strike for a day, the only people effected where the mothers and farters that had to take a day off work to watch the kids and the shops (The didn't bother with the picket lines as they where deserted).

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:47 | 3150627 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

We also had jobs, which thanks to NAFTA and GATT and free trade are now all over in China.

Thanks Clinton! Thanks Wall Street! Way to fuck the country!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:57 | 3150671 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Yes, I remember 1995. We had a functioning economy that didnt freak out."

in 1995 the Budget Defcit was only $165 Billion and the economy was in a mild recovery,  the dollar still had some value, and the federal gov't was NOT insolvent. I suspect a shutdown in 2013 would have some serious ramifications. I worry about a  sudden collapse of the dollar as Congress adopts a "scorched earth" mentality that ends up destroying the country. I feel its like Rome in 410 where the Barbarians (spendacrats) have threatened the state. If they don't give in, Rome will be sacked, and never recover. I perfer a few more years of can kicking so I can finish my preparations for the end of the United States. The US is insolvent, Any attempt to reverse this is futile and will just decrease the time left. Better to Kick the can as far as it can be kicked.




Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:10 | 3150264 Eugend66
Eugend66's picture

Collapse? Bring It!!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:59 | 3150676 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Collapse? Bring It!!"

Kick the can! Some of us aren't prepared yet. I doubt you are prepared.


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:12 | 3150267 AccreditedEYE
AccreditedEYE's picture

Just like the debt ceiling, the Republicans will CAVE when ES goes lock limit down... these guys are a dime a dozen. They see weakness in financial markets and actually believe that it means something material. Expect nothing less.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:16 | 3150280 TerminalDebt
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Agreed, now if only I can find a way of betting my house on them caving I would be rich.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:48 | 3150347 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

yes and only after hours, when they will be back to green right before cash open

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:12 | 3150269 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Will the Boner cry?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:16 | 3150277 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:19 | 3150287 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:25 | 3150416 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The only question is whether it will be a slow Bhoaner drip or more of a Bhoaner trickle.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:50 | 3150872 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

He just wants to be romanced prior to occularly penetrating taxpayers.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:54 | 3150486 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Only if it lasts longer than 4 hours.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:12 | 3150270 westerman
westerman's picture

Since when did having a balance budget become extremism? This default is natural and good. The default means living within ones means. No one would recomend someone who make 50 000 a year to borrow 5000 a year on a creditcard. How is this different?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:22 | 3150294 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Huh? Balanced budget?? Make no mistake this is not about balanced budget, this is about protecting "your side's" special interests and playing politics.
I am a proud teabagger but let me tell you, this fake huffing and puffing in front of msm cameras has NOTHING to do with balanced budget my friend!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:32 | 3150310 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

indeed, all that has even been discussed at all are slightly reduced spending over 10 year periods...

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:40 | 3150319 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Yeah... plenty of nonsense in this thread.

Debt cieling is a non-starter. The 'money' is spent. Congress has authorized the spending, but now, in an effort to play politics, is threatening to prevent the executive branch from fufilling it's duty: paying the bills. (I know.... paper money, illusion, profligate spending etc...)

This spending is very much on the shoulders of the same republican party which doubled the size and scope of government when it controlled the House, the Senate, and the executive branch.

If one wished to avoid breaching a "debt cieling" one would consider fiscal restraint. This is not an example of fiscal restraint by republicans. It is yet another example of each party vying for control of the spoils to be gathered by plundering the real economy using the coercive force of government.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:01 | 3150367 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Fiscal restraint cannot exist when maintaining status quo supersedes focus on long term development of the republic. Democracy in a fat spoilt society simply accelerates the rot.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:58 | 3150672 The Second Rule
The Second Rule's picture

I agree with your first statement. But proud 'bagger? Ahem...

Remind me again. What laws did they get passed? What corrupt politicians were removed from office? What responsible public servants were put into office? Please list even one of their accomplishments. Cause I'm at a loss.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:25 | 3150297 negative rates
negative rates's picture

It's differrent because you need to be able to live within your own means for more 3 days, right now it is scheduled for just 3 days.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:26 | 3150301 forwardho
forwardho's picture

The default means living within ones means

 We may be a bit beyond that point... just saying.


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:26 | 3150418 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

That point is well over the horizon ... in the rear view mirror.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:38 | 3150321 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

It's extremism in a system of debt money. Our monetary system requires that aggregate debt be in a state of constant expansion. The system doesn't care what takes on the debt; private or public, citizen or corporation, only that debt expands. So if you are in favor of not collapsing, a balanced budget is, in fact, extreme. Sadly. There is no side that isn't extreme because there is no solution, only timing.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:41 | 3150327 CH1
CH1's picture

Let it go, westerman, the GOP will cave as they always do. There is no salvation from them, not matter how well your favorite Pub speaks.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:13 | 3150271 edb5s
edb5s's picture

I can't wait to see the market's reaction if this happens. Silver to 25 an oz and ES to the moon, I'm sure.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:29 | 3150282 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Silver to 25 an oz


Good news for JPM.......and China, Russia, India. You get the picture.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:46 | 3150456 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Silver to 25 an oz


Good news for JPM.......and China, Russia, India. You get the picture.

AND WE plebes!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:14 | 3150273 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Still not enough. And probably a bunch of these twats are lying their asses off.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:15 | 3150275 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They probably just want the squid to be able to btfd.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:19 | 3150285 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture
Shots fired at Greece ruling party HQ in Athens

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:55 | 3150491 westerman
westerman's picture

Why can terrorists never succeed? They should have been able to shoot a few dozen pigs. How can they miss every bullet.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:19 | 3150286 GoNavy
GoNavy's picture

The really bad part of a government shut-down is that they shut down all the "non-essential services".  That makes people realize that they really don't need all the government they're borrowing and paying for and that, ultimately, is really dangerous to the people feeding on the Washinton teat.

I would not suggest taking the kiddies to Washington during the shut-down, though.  All the "free" (sic) museums will be closed.  Go to New York instead where people inexplicably PAY for their museums.


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:25 | 3150298 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

I wish they would shut down a couple of aircraft career groups and a few drone bases.. Aint gonna happen tho war is too profitable all around...

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:14 | 3150474 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

I'm surprised to see you say in a post up above that you're a proud tea bagger. Most any Tea Partier that I've ever come across doesn't talk like that about the Military Industrial Complex. They usually talk about how badly we need the MIC because of their(TP's) fear of bad people.


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 18:58 | 3152420 GoNavy
GoNavy's picture

Tell you what: when you eliminate the State Police on long stretches of highways, armed security guards at warehouses and ports, the federal air marshalls and every other security measure that is used to protect cargo, stocks of inventory, or people I'll be happy to eliminate the US Navy.  It will mean that the entire world is safe from hijacking, theft, piracy and terrorism.


Until then.....


Besides...we don't use the US Navy to fight wars; that's why we have the Army. We have the US Navy to wage diplomacy: Interdiction, blockade, threat. The Navy is the cocked fist of statecraft that makes the threats that preventns the wars -- as in Cuba, 1962, the South China Sea more times than you know, and during the Cold War, pretty much constantly.

The Navy fights when it has to. It keeps the peace all the time.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:20 | 3150289 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Some news...

- Biden to meet House members on U.S. gun proposals on Monday (Reuters)

- We would like to thank all of our customers for your support. Currently we have approximately two years of backorders for rifles, upper halves, and lower receivers.,7340,L-4332142,00.html

- Report: Assad on warship with Russian security

- Report: Syrian shell lands in Turkish village of Akcabaglar (DPA)

- Human Rights Watch: Syrian army uses new type of cluster munition (DPA)

- Schumer: Retailers Should Suspend Some Gun Sales.

- Journal News gun permit map used by burglars to target White Plains home?

- Sweeping new gun laws proposed by influential liberal think tank. (Soros think-tank)

- Kentucky Sheriff to Obama: No Gun Control in My County

- Alabama appears to have led the national run on guns last month.

- Shots were fired at the Greek PM office during the night...

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:32 | 3150296 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



No wonder America is arming herself to the teeth right now......have you tried to buy an AR-15 lately?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:14 | 3150394 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Re: your Journal News link. On the same site:

Somebody sent the editor a bag of shit. Wonder who's sending the fan?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:50 | 3150472 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Alabama appears to have led the national run on guns last month.

They must have had some to sell.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 23:24 | 3153077 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

AL gunshow traffic 3-4x normal....prices on 'AR' type weapons 2-3.5x prices 4 years ago.....all of this stuff is silly....

they should have listened to The King about 4.5 years ago (as soon as I heard Barak Obama's name). I went out and bought all the Arms I thought I would need (within 2-3 weeks of hearing he was leading the Dem candidates. As his nomination was imminent, I bought all the ammo I thought I would need. Shortly after, I secured more PMs that I thought I would need (PMs were my first investment around the time of the '07 crashing). Too bad for me I lost all of this stuff in a horrible boating accident.

Now, I sit back and listen to people talk about how much they paid for their 'AR' or bullets, or PMs....while I am refurbishing my tractor, and cleaning out acerage on my property for a bigger garden, and while I am securing means of survival in case the SHTF....nope, not a prepper, b/c preppers may be prepping for something that may/may not happen....

I consider myself an early doer...executing on things that will come to pass.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:20 | 3150290 4exNinja
4exNinja's picture

Oh comon', nobody in his right mind could fall for this statement :D

OF COURSE they're not willing to default, it would hurt their corporate donors waaaay more than smaller deficit least in the short to medium term. This is nothing but them trying to find an angle to force Obama to tougher cuts. 

Knowing what a bad "poker player" Obama is, he will probably fall for it though...or at least use it as an excuse to sell those cuts to his base. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:20 | 3150291 booboo
booboo's picture

You notice how these birds don't show their faces in public anymore. No more town hall meetings, no more shaking hands and kissing ass, babies. You would think they are afraid of the public. (snickers)

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:20 | 3150292 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Every Republican that was interviewed and stated that they would let the US default are bold faced liars.  No way in hell would they allow that, hence why the constant extenstion on the debt ceiling and government expenses. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:29 | 3150305 4exNinja
4exNinja's picture

Also really interesting how they only seem concerned about the debt whenever a non-GOP president is in power. The second a republican president is in power they forget all about saving and spend money like mad...bunch of hypocrites!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:43 | 3150331 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

ie: "Deficits don't matter". The lack of outrage at the time that was said was deafening.  The players change but amazingly the same corrupt game continues following the exact same path with a 'twist' on rhetoric to fool the masses into thinking something has changed.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:06 | 3150379 DOT
DOT's picture

In DC, the only question asked about spending is,"How much were we able to get into the Bill?"

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:09 | 3150384 Chump
Chump's picture

Exactly.  The House controls spending, Republicans control the House.  There is no Congressional budget, therefore every bit of spending is being approved piecemeal by the same Republicans who just suddenly got religion and found their spines?  Right, right, and I'm just going to go grab my jetpack and fly off to Ukraine.  I took delivery on another half-ton of gold and it's being delivered to my new state of the art underground vault that was completed just last week.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:22 | 3150293 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And then Obama will get rid of the debt ceiling by Executive Order and the GOP will scream and shout for show but nothing will happen.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:25 | 3150299 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Prepared and actually doing are two different things. They will shrivel up like useless pricks and walk away muttering racial epithets.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:26 | 3150300 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

Would half be enough?

you still got 50% dems and 25% reps left

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:32 | 3150308 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

This may make some of you smile today:

Irish Farmer continues to defy Eviction Notice

Seamus Sherlock on day 150 of his stand against a notice of execution from The Bank of Scotland to evict him from his farm

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:32 | 3150312 Crassus
Crassus's picture

This is a Punch and Judy puppet show designed to distract attention from other news.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:37 | 3150317 Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Pure bullshit. Just the next act of the continuing disgusting farce.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:42 | 3150329 RuiNsPro
RuiNsPro's picture

They still will raise the ceiling nonetheless. After all they need it to finance the military spending.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:51 | 3150477 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

All the naval ships are filling up their tanks this week. Credit card may be rejected soon......

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:46 | 3150337 madcows
madcows's picture

Include me in the list.  I'd rather see us default than allow those puckassbitches to take on even more insurmountable debt.   FU Congress.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:46 | 3150340 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Why not..ratings couldn't be any lower, many of them seem to be sick and tired of the infighting much less across the aisle fighting, the Republicans desperately need to "refind" their platform for the next presidential election and clearly memories are short in our ipad-addled brains so by midterm elections in 2014, the GOP is on the rebound or let the Dems deal with the fallout alone through 2016.  Seems like a strategy to me. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:47 | 3150343 Unstable Condition
Unstable Condition's picture


I needed a good laugh this moirning, thanks Tyler!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:48 | 3150344 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

full steam ahead on the rudderless ship

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:58 | 3150360 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Shame its not an udderless ship.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:10 | 3150387 forwardho
forwardho's picture

Captain, I ken give ya full steam, but what about the 300' tear in the bulkheads?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:52 | 3150354 kaiten
kaiten's picture

Here´s your black swan.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:59 | 3150361 Chump
Chump's picture

A black swan is not contemplated in the media a month before it occurs.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:36 | 3150433 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

More like a sooty tern.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:52 | 3150355 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

Short gold?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:57 | 3150358 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



You go first.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:00 | 3150364 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

And long what?  Paper?  Go ahead.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 09:53 | 3150357 loregnum
loregnum's picture

Like they'll do anything. Just big bad talk like always and when it comes time to do something they'll do nothing different and then just go back to blaming the other side. Just another example of the pro wrestling farce that is the world or at least the U.S:


-Al Qaeda is the big bad sworn enemy yet the U.S supplies them with guns after they were initially set up via the CIA and no doubt still controlled by the CIA hence the support and hwo AQ is always there for good or bad whenever the U.S govt needs to use them to justify something like oh I don't know, drone strikes on civilians.

-AQ is almost eliminated when Obombya needs the PR to show how big and bad he is yet when they need to justify invading somewhere it is because AQ is getting larger.

-AQ is so amazing I am suppsoed to believe they could defy every U.S agency multiple times within a 30 minute span one day and be respionsible for destruction that defied the laws of physics yet they are so inept they can't set off a shoe bomb or do anything else over 11 years.

-Republicans are about fiscal responsibility and spending cuts yet they continually approve or are behind massive spending over the last decade

-Democrats are all about being for the people yet Obombya and crew are taking away rights at an amazing pace and making the lives of the sheeple worse

-The government cares about corruption which is why they haven't done a single thing to those on wallstreet who are corrupt. Well they have done something I suppose as they have made the lives of the corrupt even more profitable. 

-Both political parties are disgusted with each other yet their actions are the exact same but hey, it isn't just a one party system with the one party being "the powers that be."


That people believe anything that goes on anymore is pretty amusing yet sad at the same time. I won't even get into the obviously staged shootings of the last little while where the official story changes every few hours to cover the previous holes and every convenience you could think of occurs. Or how about the Osama raid myth (a guy that has most likely been dead for a decade) where there is not a single shred of evidence it happened yet Obombya and crew (the only people who have anything to gain by saying they got him) say so which is all you need apparently to get the sheeple to believe you. Evidence and logic are for kooks. 


Just remember though, Stone Cold and The Rock were enemies and what those in the government say is all true.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:00 | 3150365 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

Wouldn't practically all of the Republicans have to be willing to let America go into default before it could actually happen?

Even Obama was willing to let America go into default when he was a senator, when he knew that his vote didn't matter...

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:02 | 3150369 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

First of all their is supposed to be enough revenue coming in monthly to the government to pay the amount owed on the debt. Government would have to prioritize the payments for that though and I would not count on the president doing that necessarily. The government would have to shut down much of what it does currently and workers would be furloughed if they did not want to default on the debt.

The president would love for the Republican to shut the government down as this would play into the bully pulpit dictators hands. No way would Republicans come out of this better off even though I think this is the right thing to do for the good of our debt ridden country.


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:03 | 3150370 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

fake shutdown

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:09 | 3150383 DOT
DOT's picture

fake government

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:21 | 3150561 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

fake economy

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:21 | 3150741 CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding's picture

Everything is fake. Thank goodness for my Columbo DVD box set.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:09 | 3150386 JiminGA
JiminGA's picture

What is all this talk of "default"?  Default means the US will not pay the interest on the debt which is about 6% of revenue.  There's plenty of money to pay the interest for a very long time.  Sure, some bills won't get paid but that means the government will need to prioritize payments, something we have all sought for years.  Freezing the debt limit just takes away the US credit card and forces living within its means.  What a novel idea!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:17 | 3150398 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

... and collapses the debt Ponzi scheme, you forgot about that. And this will bring with it a lot of pain. This is, in fact, the mother of all bubbles.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:58 | 3151219 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:22 | 3150407 d edwards
d edwards's picture

Thank you for clearing the air. Remember, Politico has a big Dem bias.


Shut down gov't? They shut down every weekend, holidays, etc.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:22 | 3150408 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

"And while historically a US default would send the USD soaring on a flight to safety" - why is that?

Has there been US defaults before? 17xx or 18xx?


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:33 | 3150425 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

States have defaulted on bonds, but the Federal government has not. If the Federal government defaults on its bonds, it is the choice of the executive branch to do so. There is more than enough revenue to service previously issued debt. The phrase that has attracted a lot of comment that is contained in the 14th amendment was placed there to affirm the validity of the US government debt and to deny any responsibility for any Confederate debt. It also denied any of the slaveholders any recourse in having the Federal government have to pay for the freed slaves.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:24 | 3150414 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Nobody ever remembers old Newt Whats-his-name... LOL

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:33 | 3150423 TomGa
TomGa's picture

"I say, let them crash."



Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:35 | 3150427 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

"No man is an island. He is a penisula" - After Bathing At Baxster's

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:37 | 3150437 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The usual gnashing of teeth by the usual clowns.... Yawn.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:38 | 3150438 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

I like that statement:

House Republicans are seriously entertaining...


Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:37 | 3150608 tsuki
tsuki's picture

Hey, Bohner needs another whiskey. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 10:38 | 3150439 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Its the half that don't count; dodo political party now owned by the Oligarchy; like the current incumbent Demo Potus. 

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:06 | 3150520 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

I know of several things that need cut (dramatically or quietly).

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:08 | 3150526 sbenard
sbenard's picture

The whole claim that refusal to incur additional debt constitutes a "default" is a LIE!

A default occurs only when the debtor either refuses to pay, or is incapable of paying, EXISTING debt. Refusal to incur NEW debt is not a default! The Prevaricator President is once again LYING!
If I have $1000 of debt on a credit card, I am not defaulting on that debt to refuse to incur additional debt. I only default on my credit card if I stop paying my EXISTING credit card debt!
The US government receives about $200 billion of revenue each month, mostly from payroll tax deductions of working Americans -- far more than enough to pay the bill, including interest costs, for existing debt. We can pay existing debt from that revenue without defaulting. Use of the word "default" is deception, plain and simple! This whole narrative that a refusal to incur NEW debt and add another story to the debt house of cards is an utterly FALSE one! And most of the MSM is complicit with that lie!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 14:16 | 3151362 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Yes, but they are paying interest on old debt with new debt - if they don't charge the interest to the credit card, they have to print the entire budget.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:50 | 3150644 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Smoke and mirrors.  They're all the same.

At the local Denny's this morning, all of the usual suspects - Boner, Nancy Botox, et al - were sitting around a table with their flasks of Chivas and double-helpings of Moons Over My Hammy, and the conversation went something like this:

Botox - "Ok, Boner, you guys are going to threaten a gov't shutdown.  Harry.....Harry, wake up!  You are going to pick an obscure liberal, state-funded waste of time, like the Cowboy Poetry Festival, and use its elimination from the budget to show how evil the GOP is.  As for me, when I'm done having Bernanke, Jamie Dimon, and the First Lady run a train on me, I'll say something completely nonsensical in front of the cameras.  That ought to keep the sheeple busy arguing for a few weeks."

Boner - "You promised they would run a train on me this time!"

Reid - "I think I pooped."

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 11:54 | 3150662 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Ridiculous thread, again.


How about this, More then half of bankers and politicians ready for default. And more importantly - bankers and politicians move their assets to protect themselves from default while the rest of the country burns. We need someone to be following the money because this will let us know the "when."

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:40 | 3151113 W74
W74's picture

Indeed. I've been trying to time the "when" for quite some time now.  Sentiment should be the peachiest in years just before "the when" as well.  Even here in MD (an' we gots gub'mint jurbs) foreclosures are rampant and the private sector (maybe only a quarter of the state by now) is getting hammered. 

You won't hear any of this from the pols and the newspapers here though, but you can drive around and check out the winterization stickers on every tenth front door, and then go check out the Escalade at some of the shadier apartment complexes.  This country is doomed.  Is anyone working?

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:24 | 3150749 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

After they default, the states should default too. I know Florida owns some awesome properties that aren't developed in a good way. If it was sold off into private hands, it would be easier to enjoy the properties and a good tax revenue stream. Maybe they could make it 100 year leases with a maximum daily use rate adjusted for inflation.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 12:26 | 3150756 monad
monad's picture

It seems that the tactic is to derail the dissenting voice by organizing a realistic action group, the heads of which have no intent of carrying through. Just like Ron Paul's excellent presidential bid, that somehow folded with all disgruntled conservatives inside, neat as an origami box. He got all the pissed off people who were intelligent enough to express a voice to support him, then poof! Out of the way. The RDNC are just playing with your heads.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:45 | 3151138 dadichris
dadichris's picture

only Jeb Bush can save us now!!!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 14:01 | 3151247 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

No, Jeb has a brother Marvin that could save us too.

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 13:56 | 3151207 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

At last, some common sense.


Default Now!


Burn, baby burn!!

Mon, 01/14/2013 - 15:00 | 3151604 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Re. "Jake" Sherman (Jacob, another of our mostly Rabbinical masters?)...I'm reminded of Horace Vandergelder's words to his young store help in Hello Dolly: "All you pay a man to do before he's 40 is make mistakes!"

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 03:37 | 3153438 Chewybunny
Chewybunny's picture

I sort of hope this happens.

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