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Jim Grant: Heads Bankers Win, Tails Taxpayers Lose

Tyler Durden's picture


Interest Rate Observer, Jim Grant, played an important role as explainer-in-chief in the forthcoming movie "The Bubble" - a documentary that interviews the experts that predicted the 2008 crash and asks what happens next. The brief interview embedded below provides a smorgasbord of Grant's thoughts on topics from Fannie and Freddie as government-sponsored titanic hedge funds, his concerns at the unintended consequence of the debt-sustaining mortgage interest deduction, why MBS are not the root of all evil, and how the federal government is socializing risk for bankers. As usual, the ever-so-erudite Grant sums it all up superbly: "American bankers, based on the experience of 2007-8-9, don't know much about banking, but there's one institution that knows still less and that institution is the United States Congress." Adding that the past two or three years have all been about the unintended consequences of federal "spending, promising, and intervening" in finance and banking to delay a day of reckoning, Grant believes a correction is coming but again warns (in as succinct an eleven-word-sentence about our real world as we have seen recently), that "Bankers get the upside and we - the taxpayers - get the downside."



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Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:44 | 3155538 mikla
mikla's picture


The worst thing that can happen to any human comes when government "partners" with "big business".

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:49 | 3155557 Kitler
Kitler's picture
Pecuniam vincit omnia. (money conquers all)

Unfortunately it has always been the Achilles Heel of all democracies.
Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:36 | 3155652 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It would take 'Bill Nye the Science Guy' to convince me otherwise...


To wit: "Interest Rate Observer, Jim Grant"... What's that?... Like ~ a dude who watches grass grow?... "Inform me when it hits an inch & a quarter & I'll notify the Lawnmower Man..."

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:45 | 3155769 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Jim Grant is so legit. Thanks for posting.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:28 | 3155876 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

agreed, the list of topics and the clarity that he brings to them is priceless.  there is not much new here (to me at least) but it's nice to see it summed up so well.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:33 | 3155897 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Jim Grant--revered by bears and feared by bulls. I know of nobody else who can cause the CNBC crowd to shut the hell up and listen like Jim can.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 21:35 | 3156206 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Thomas, please gang up with glorious Banzai7 Institute and publish "The illustrated review of 2012".  That would be so awesome!  

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:38 | 3155918 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is like to predict Fed Discount Rate for future...

2013 - below 1% but point up

2014 - still below 1% but point up

2015 - still below 1% but aggressive to point up




2020 - no Federal Reserve Banking System, no member banks, no dollar, only Gold, Silver, and Vodka!

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:38 | 3155919 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Jim Grant has tremendous credibility among those who have doubts about our current financial system.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:21 | 3155671 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

American bankers don't need to know much about banking; they're world-class grifters, which is what banking is all about. They have low paid cattle to fill out the forms, process the paperwork, and do all the mundane work considered "banking" by most people.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:39 | 3155738 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Fannie, Freddie and Barney Frank promised us that they had little risk exposure and weren't buying anything but AAA mortgages.

It then turned out that they were buying over 30% risky mortgages the whole time!!!!!!!

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:48 | 3155560 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Wow, I never knew faxes were so dangerous.


I wonder if B. Shalome B. has a fax built in to his printer... God, that sounds even more dangerous.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:57 | 3155594 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

here is a list that enumerates the total population of Califronia's penal colonies by 2nd and 3rd strike offense type

AS OF JUNE 30, 2012

for example


2nd 440

3rd   71

Tot 511


everything you want to know about the three strikes law

Just ask Leandro Andrade. The father of three languishes in California state prison with two consecutive life sentences for shoplifting nine children's videos on two occasions in November 1995.1

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:10 | 3155635 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Zer0head  ...thank you for illustrating just how far off the rails the amerikan justice system has traveled .... Leandro Andrade ..... the system is so screwed up that "justice" no longer anywhere to be found.


It will surely get worse before it gets better.  This is the reason that Homeland Security (the Amerikan Stazi) is everywhere.  Keep the sheep from turning into wolves.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:39 | 3155924 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And Biggest P.O.S. on Planet Earth Jon Corzine (TM) is still on the loose.  Grr...

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 08:40 | 3157073 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Corzine.  Who would have thought things could have gotten worse in Jersey.  He's the best at what he does.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:40 | 3155754 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

People are starting to wake up. They are not going to put up with the banksters nonsense much long.

Keep voting with your dollars. Keep stacking gold and silver.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:15 | 3155838 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

The full definition of Fascism includes the government, big business, & the military in the Unholy Triangle. We certainly have that now don't we.

Maybe we'll see the Basketballer-in-Chief hanging by his thumbs? I wouldn't count on it...

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:44 | 3155549 CClarity
CClarity's picture

Steal a loaf of bread or cigarettes - go to jail.  Bankers steal from customers and get bonues.  Messed up world!


Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:42 | 3155756 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Not according to them... They're 'Chosen'...

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:37 | 3155916 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Yep doing God work right? Chosen people my ass.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:55 | 3155552 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

That which cannot be sustained, won't be.  hedge accordingly, it's all you can do anyway.  In all the instances throughout history where revolutions occurred, the supply lines for essential goods and services broke before any real action was taken against the ruling class or bankers.  This time will be no different. So long as the ignorant sheep can still "swipe that EBT" and actually eat, nothing changes.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:28 | 3155690 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Indeed.... "Und wie es gehn kann, so wird's gehn"

What is to be, will be.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:39 | 3155733 linrom
linrom's picture

The ignorant sheep? Why should the underclass do all the lifiting in US? Where is its middle class? The White middle class is expecting the brown races to shed blood for them! WTF?

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:49 | 3155781 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


The white trailer trash will help em when their EBT goes verklempt.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:44 | 3155554 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

LOL Has it ever been any other way? Did the serfs and peons ever pull one over on the fuedal lords?

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:46 | 3155938 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

In my reading of history I was impressed with the faith the common people had in their so called superiors. Again and again they appealed to their "natural leaders", again and again they were abused and disappointed. Yet they never lost faith. Eventually the system collapsed on its own, was brought down by some folly of its leadership, or became so weakened that it was a pushover for an outside invader or revolution.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:45 | 3155556 A_S
A_S's picture

Nice series, I like this one with Jim Rogers too

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:47 | 3155559 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Did the serfs and peons ever pull one over on the feudal lords?

Twice, one thanks to guillotines, the other thanks to guns (well, the lords in both instances were also French, so this is not saying much):

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:48 | 3155564 tooriskytoinvest
tooriskytoinvest's picture

U.S. Flirting With Disaster: Debt Ceiling + Ongoing Budget Resolution + Sequester + Ridiculous Leverage Gambling + Low Growth + Low Inflation + Long Term Unemployment+ Insane Gov't Spending And Borrowing + Declining S&P 500 Cash + Poverty Trap

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:48 | 3155565 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Pretty hard to make the case that bankers don't know much about banking when they keep coming out on the fucking TOP.....

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:29 | 3155693 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Pretty hard to make the case that bankers don't know much about banking when they keep coming out on the fucking TOP.....

On the other hand, it's pretty easy to make the case that most citizens don't know much about how often they're being ass raped, and by whom.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 21:33 | 3156215 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

 The town crier is giving false information on the banksters behalf.  When your govt is being overthrown by a silent coupe, this is how it works.  All the distractions are in place to lead to one event - gaining complete control over the assets. 

Iran has joined Agenda 21.  So has China.  This is depopulation and everyone is on board.  How long does it take to starve?  That is the day the US citizens will wake know, when it is over.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 21:49 | 3156263 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

The Chinese never sign onto anything unless it can be ignored.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:36 | 3155911 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

Bankers don't know shit about banking and don't need to.  Any half-wit could make money borrowing from the U.S. Federal Reserve at 0.25%, especially if they were given "get out of jail free" cards from every U.S. law enforcment agency.       

All bankers need to know today is how to write checks to both parties' political campaigns, fund so-called issue ads, and hire effective lobbyists.     



Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:49 | 3155568 CharliePrince
CharliePrince's picture

and no one has gone to jail


obummer will let the statue of limitations run out

and then collect from the banksters...retirement money..   good scam me thinks

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:50 | 3155572 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Um, that has gone on for decades. It's about time Grant and others focus more on the end game instead of what has happened.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 17:52 | 3155581 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Straight from the no shit sherlock files.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:00 | 3155605 news printer
news printer's picture

If U mentioned heads :

Heads rolling after all – 18 heads found at O’Hare Airport

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:16 | 3155656 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Bet the families don't know their loved one's heads were sold for medical research.

Crematorium probably doing a good business selling the heads and giving families a jar with ashes from the headless bodies.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:39 | 3155741 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Crematorium probably doing a good business selling the heads and giving families a jar with ashes from the headless bodies.

They probably even threw in a few burnt human teeth to make it look good.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:04 | 3155606 SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

It's more like heads bankers win, tails bankers win.

The taxpayer always lose.

 Must be a boring game for bankers, do not go to jail, doe not pass start, still receive the 200.


Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:06 | 3155619 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Gosh, people are starting to see the reality that you're just an interest rate/tax slave and govt only does what its told by the bankers who took over using the 1871 Act, if not actually earlier than even that? Enjoy the open air concentration camp, free range sheeple.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:07 | 3155620 reTARD
reTARD's picture

Still love how Jim Grant calls it the Department of the Debt. Perhaps there is irony in how it is also the DOD. They both are all about violence and destruction.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:09 | 3155632 Debeachesand Je...
Debeachesand Jerseyshores's picture

Bankers get the Gold Medal and Taxpayers get the Golden Shower.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:10 | 3155638 chockl
chockl's picture

Off with thier heads.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:35 | 3155721 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

...or, perhaps, "heads bankers keep them, tails they lose them," the only difference being whether they face the gallows or the guillotine.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:11 | 3155644 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 I stopped at him talking about Mortgage Backed Securities being "interesting" at 0.10 cents on the dollar.

No MBS's please, or any other banker rehypothecation shadow banking overleveraged instruments to crash the system and get more bailouts and bonuses; not to mention that pricing MBS's is impossible because the FED is buying them.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:33 | 3155712 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Keep watching. [Grant is one of the truly smart ones] And I believe he is right in identifying the biggest bubble of them all:

Misplaced Faith in the ability of the Central Banks to manage everything.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:42 | 3155742 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Oh I agree with you and most of what he says, have heard it before in different interviews. 

Not sure why they included that clip, it detracts from his main points, I guess is what I was trying to say.

Yes, Central Banks can't manage shit except to prop mis-allocators and absconders of capital.

The only fix for mortgages is no government involvement, 20% down, and the originating bank holds the loan for life.

All that MERS crap (fraud) was precipitated by allowing banks to sell mortgages they originated, then allowing them to securitize them, and getting the government involved in guaranteeing them.


What did they think was going to happen?

May as well allow loans with 3% down guaranteed by the government to drug dealers, blame the users, and pass the bill to the taxpayers.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:01 | 3155796 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Nothing wrong in principle with securitzation.

How it was practiced is a whole different matter.

Stealing the original investors money and relying on subsequent

investors to keep it afloat.

Charles Ponzi would be head if the squid if alive today.

Obviously born ahead of his time, and misunderstood, s/

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:12 | 3155648 chockl
chockl's picture

All tyrants eventialy succumb to justice.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:39 | 3155923 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

Not really.  Both Stalin and Mao killed tens of millions of people, yet lived to old age old and died in their sleep. 

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:15 | 3155655 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Typical 2 headed coin.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:43 | 3155759 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Typical 2 headed coin.

When it comes to ass rape, bankers are double-dickers.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 23:34 | 3156547 oddball
oddball's picture

Heads bankers win, tails taxpayers lose?  I like those odds!



Lord Blankfein

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:19 | 3155663 mainuh1
mainuh1's picture

What a surprise! Taxpayers left holding the bag once again!! Let the suckers fail this time!!!

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:21 | 3155670 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Some news from police state America :

- NY just went ahead and basically banned most firearms :

- Obama intends to ban AW, universal background check, limit magazine caps (probably to 10) + 19 Executive Orders we don't know about.

- While doing his evil deed, he will surround himself with children... you know to make sure people don't oppose him (or else they want all those children dead) :

- While India and Pakistan are at it again :

Statement: India demands punishment for Pak killers of Indian troops

Pakistan says Indian troops kill soldier in Kashmir

Pakistan's army provoking India to react: Ron Somers, President of US-India Business Council

Fight Pakistan fire with fire, Indian Army chief orders commanders on LoC

Pakistani Army: Indian troops kill Pakistani soldier in latest ceasefire violation in Kashmir - @Reuters

And of course there's rumors flying around that India is planning retaliatory strikes against Pakistan in the next 24 hours...

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:32 | 3155704 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

only that chickenshit would wrap himself in children when making that announcement. sadly-his second term hasn't even started yet. and let's be honest-the gun registration has nothing to do with safety-it has everything to do with DHS being able to quickly arrest everyone that has a weapon stronger than a cap gun when the SHTF

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:38 | 3155734 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Also... question the government on the internet? On the no-fly list? Buy gold/silver? Don't let your kids vaccinate? Homeschool your kids?? NO GUNS FOR YOU, YOU ARE MENTALLY INSTABLE!

/you know it's coming

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:38 | 3155921 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

So Otto, just say no

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 21:44 | 3156244 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Human shields.

The coward.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:15 | 3155835 forwardho
forwardho's picture

lol-500. thanks for links.

Time, as always fleeting. I look forward to your collection of artcles.


Tue, 01/15/2013 - 20:00 | 3155974 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

They can have NY but they'd be wise to stay out of Wyoming.


Firearm Protection Act.
Sponsored by: Representative(s) Kroeker, Baker, Burkhart,
Jaggi, Miller, Piiparinen, Reeder and
Winters and Senator(s) Dockstader and Hicks
1 AN ACT relating to firearms; providing that any federal law
2 which attempts to ban a semi-automatic firearm or to limit
3 the size of a magazine of a firearm or other limitation on
4 firearms in this state shall be unenforceable in Wyoming;
5 providing a penalty; and providing for an effective date.
7 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Wyoming:
9 Section 1. W.S. 6-8-405 is amended to read:
11 6-8-405. Offenses and penalties; defense of Wyoming
12 citizens.
14 (a) No public servant as defined in W.S. 6-5-101, or
15 dealer selling any firearm in this state shall enforce or
16 attempt to enforce any act, law, statute, rule or
1 HB0104
1 regulation of the United States government relating to a
2 personal firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition that is
3 owned or manufactured commercially or privately in Wyoming
4 and that remains exclusively within the borders of Wyoming.
6 (b) Any official, agent or employee of the United
7 States government who enforces or attempts to enforce any
8 act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation of the United
9 States government upon a personal firearm, a firearm
10 accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured
11 commercially or privately in Wyoming and that remains
12 exclusively within the borders of Wyoming shall be guilty
13 of a misdemeanor felony and, upon conviction, shall be
14 subject to imprisonment for not more less than one (1) year
15 and one (1) day or more than five (5) years, a fine of not
16 more than two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) five thousand
17 dollars ($5,000.00), or both.
19 (c) The attorney general may defend a citizen of
20 Wyoming who is prosecuted by the United States government
21 for violation of a federal law relating to the manufacture,
22 sale, transfer or possession of a firearm, a firearm
23 accessory or ammunition owned or manufactured and retained
24 exclusively within the borders of Wyoming.
2 HB0104
2 (d) Any federal law, rule, regulation or order
3 created or effective on or after January 1, 2013 shall be
4 unenforceable within the borders of Wyoming if the law,
5 rule, regulation or order attempts to:
7 (i) Ban or restrict ownership of a semi-
8 automatic firearm or any magazine of a firearm; or
10 (ii) Require any firearm, magazine or other
11 firearm accessory to be registered in any manner.
13 Section 2. This act is effective immediately upon
14 completion of all acts necessary for a bill to become law
15 as provided by Article 4, Section 8 of the Wyoming
16 Constitution.
18 (END)
3 HB0104


Tue, 01/15/2013 - 20:02 | 3155984 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

It's a sad day for our brothers-in-arms in the People's Republic of New York. Treason is easy to spot. The traitors will be held to account.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 20:36 | 3156073 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

 It certainly is. I know there are alot of good people still left in NY, unfortunately the modern day Bolsheviks took control of that state and CA,. IL. and others a long time ago.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:30 | 3155681 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

how the federal government is socializing risk for bankers

This ties into this euphemism "crony capitalism" which I find to be a vile and misleading term to begin with. It is also not a privilege exclusive to banks. It is however in every other period in history known as a defining pillar of fascism.

When big business gets into bed with the government it is fascism, period. Stop with this pussy ass "crony capitalism" bullshit and call it what it is. There is nothing capitalistic about a country who's leaders are guided by fascistic ideologies. Whether it be direct backstopping, direct government funding, exclusion of rules that everyone else must follow (Obamacare waivers) or when big business influences government to create regulations that hinder their competition, it is fascism and it is black and white.

Furthermore when government takes away any freedom or liberty from the people it becomes a snowball effect which overtime always leads to a tyrannical and dictatorial regime under which circumstances the most vile and atrocious acts against humanity have occurred.

If you think one man has the authority to suppress the 2nd amendment and unilaterally act in a way to hinder the right to bear arms than this tax payer bullshit is the least of ones worries (not to mention the threat of using executive order to raise the debt limit). If you're cool with that than be cool with Obama's 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th term.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:34 | 3155715 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

your italics at the start preclude people from giving you up arrows-of which i am one

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:40 | 3155748 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

While I appreciate that you agree with and support my post, the vanity of "up" or "down" arrows is quite trivial. The truth is the truth with or without 100 up or down arrows.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:19 | 3155833 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

Vanity has nothing to do with it my friend, just agreeing. It's a bit comforting to see others thinking the same.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:35 | 3155870 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Otto, (and other hostages to the "Chicago machine" in the "Land of Lincoln") this is your neck of the woods Sunday.

Heavy (bulls)hitters from the gun-grab lobby hosting in the lovely North Shore suburb of Wilmette. I believe Rahm's (Bomb) father resides there. Or is that Winnetka? I forget. I digress.

From the Illinois State Rifle Association-

Also, here's some BOLD i-talics so you can abstain from shooting arrows - MOLON LABE

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:34 | 3155698 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Having listened to the whole footage, I find Grant's analysis (normally reinforcing logic) somewhat bland and out of all the air time he comes up with really only 2minutes worth of sound bites.

The financial system needs to be redesigned and the fed needs to be removed from existence. Justice needs to be brought to the real villains it ranges from politicians, media pundits, bankers, and central bankers.

The fed has allowed the overgrowing police mentality of the state and politicians to act and enact policy way out of its realm of power to do so and continues to perpetuate the crony capitalistic ways that have destroyed prospects for economic hope and democracy.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 23:25 | 3156520 Orly
Orly's picture

"...out of all the air time he comes up with really only 2minutes worth of sound bites."

Well, that's a lot better than Ron Paul ever did.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:51 | 3155777 news printer
news printer's picture
Taxpayers face £500m bill for RBS Libor fraud !!!

British taxpayers are set to pay $800m (£500m) in fines as a result of Royal Bank of Scotland traders’ involvement in the Libor interest rate fixing scandal - with nearly all of the money going to the United States.


American watchdogs are set to hit RBS with as much as four-fifths of the total penalty as it becomes the third bank to settle over its traders’ role in the scandal.

The remaining £100m will come from the Financial Services Authority (FSA), which will eventually be returned to UK Government coffers. But people close to the talks told The Independent the figure hadn’t been finalised on the American side and could still go higher.

Happy Days

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 18:53 | 3155792 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Pakistan is about to go kaboom :

Pakistan supreme court orders arrest of prime minister on corruption charges


Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:19 | 3155854 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I'll take "Nuclear Winter" for 1000.....years, Alex!

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:05 | 3155811 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

How many times does the point have to be belabored?

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 23:40 | 3156567 oddball
oddball's picture

As many times as it fucking takes to tip the scale.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:16 | 3155841 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Don't give the banksters your money. Starve the beast.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:41 | 3155928 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Still waiting on relief from the devastation causedd by Hurricane Banker.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 19:44 | 3155933 zjxn06
zjxn06's picture

Jim Grant convinced his buddy, and value investor supreme, Seth Klarman that gold was actually useful and not a barbarous relic.

That speaks volumes to Jim Grant's intelect.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 20:34 | 3156062 blindman
blindman's picture

for starters i can dig mr. grant, but.
i have listened to minute approx. 13.00
and have to say i almost saw a gun to his
temple. he seems to be sweating a bit more
than usual.... knowing that the conditions and
context of the "world" in 2013 regarding growth
potential, development and production are not e-
quivalent to the period about 1930 and the banking,
credit proliferation potential as it intersects with
survivability of a preponderance of viable and
solvent lending institutions, be they commercial or
investment in orientation, or both, and just for the
hell of it!!!!
let's go back to the interview.
jesus, this guy is adorable and i can never stop
thinking of clark kent and that other guy ...
if there was one person in n.y. i would like to
have a conversation with it is he, j.g..
Jim Croce - Greatest Hits - You Don't Mess Around With Jim

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 20:37 | 3156068 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

Grant; one of the last fortresses of truth that can be trusted.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 22:15 | 3156318 blindman
blindman's picture

"trust no man" . anon ?
know thy self !

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 21:26 | 3156196 blindman
blindman's picture

minute 20 something, and there abouts, i must
say this mr. grant
is a great man among men and let him receive,
the grace of all men due all men.
aka, i can dig it !
lord, let me listen on ....
don't stop now

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 21:28 | 3156198 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

"Bankers get the upside and we - the taxpayers - get the downside."


What bothers me most is that the international banking cartel the effectively controls the government of the USA not only does not care that the banksters' parasitism will destroy America as a democratic republic, but rather, deliberately intends to accomplish that.  Too much, for too long, privatization of profits, with socialization of losses, means that the whole society gets sicker and sicker, until it collapses into chaos. Financialization has become the runaway triumph of frauds dominating everything, which enables a few to extract astronomically sized profits, at the final expense of the loss of the whole country. However, what is the worst thing to contemplate is that that has been engineered to produce that end game. The bet being made by the banksters greatest gamble is that they will prevail through imposing martial law.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 22:12 | 3156314 blindman
blindman's picture

regarding marshmallow law...ever try it in reality
in america? or Afghanistan or anywhere else?
it does not work, would not work. the mind of the
average imbecile is another story, that is the field
of fruition for the sick-o clan.

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 23:17 | 3156464 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

My view is that Jim Grant underestimates the deliberate designs of the banksters. For example, he speaks about Greenspan being ironically inconsistent, and somehow not connecting the dots, etc.. I do not believe that the FED is run by people who are that incompetent, but rather run by people who are that evil. The gamble that the banksters appear to be making is that they can destroy America as a democratic republic, and then assimilate the shattered pieces into their globalized systems, which will still be able to make "money" out of nothing, as debts, and be able to force everyone to continue to live inside of that overall system, with no options. Everything worth owning will have been taken over through Centuries of operating the advantage of legalized counterfeiting of the "money" supply that everyone else was legally forced to accept.


In order to do that, they have to get enough of the enslaved masses to force the other slaves. The banksters need to develop a fascist police state, that will protect the interests of the fascist plutocracy. They must be prepared to go through democidal martial law, the same as they are prepared to go through genocidal wars, and still prevail on the other side of those mass murder events.  They did that over and over again throughout history, and it mostly worked. They appear to be able and willing to continue to gamble on doing that again, despite there now being weapons of mass destruction that are trillions of times more powerful.

I see no sign of the exponential runaway debts stopping, other than through collapse into chaos, as the social pyramid systems drive debt slavery to become debt insanity. The USA is clearly on the edge of its financial numbers becoming so NUTS, that there is no way back. I can not believe that happened due to a series of accidents, or that those driving that to happen are not planning ahead, to switch gears, into genocidal war, along with democidal martial law.  Of course, that is not going to work for the vast majority of people that will thereby be murdered. However, the banksters appear willing and able to continue gambling that it will still work out for them. That is why they did things like the events on 9/11/2001, and had their media promote their lies about that, so that they could do everything they felt necessary to prepare the way for genocidal wars, and democidal martial law.


I believe that people like Jim Grant are correct about what they say, within their own frame of reference. However, they are not remotely close to personally facing the social facts regarding how extremely evil the banksters are! The established systems ARE the triumph of the application of the methods of organized crime to take control of governments, and those methods intend to play on through, to deliberately destroy the American democratic republic, and get rid of the Bill of Rights, and constitutional limits on power, so that the banksters can completely consolidate their global hegemony on their ability to make endless "money" out of nothing, while being able to continue to force everyone else to accept that.

The privatization of profits, in the form of the privatization of the sovereign powers to rob and to kill, (which is what forcing everyone to accept money made out of nothing, as their legal tender, amounts to in the real world) is already more than 99% accomplished. In my view, the coming wars and martial law will be attempts to mop of the mess. The ONLY questions are about HOW MUCH "MESS" THE USE OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION MAY MAKE, when those perhaps get used in the context of the banksters' consolidation of their power, through those wars and martial law.

Personally, I presume that the banksters are psychotic, and that they will continue to gamble, and have no problem betting the lives of other people, and causing events that result in mass murders. I believe that they underestimate how BIG weapons of mass destruction actually ARE. I believe that the genocidal wars and democidal martial law that their systems deliberately start and impose will go out of their control.  I do not believe that the future on the other side of those social insanities, after social storms of utterly unprecedented sizes, will become coherently what the morbid social habits of the banksters are presuming, when they cause those things to happen.

I do not believe anyone can fully imagine what technologies amplified trillions of times will ACTUALLY do, when they manifest as a fascist police state, promoting fascist plutocracy. I believe that will finally backfire worse than anybody can now imagine, including the banksters that ARE driving those things to happen.

Of course, there are theoretically alternatives. One of the interesting ideas is the Ouroboros of Incorporated Robbery, which is that the vast majority of shares of all the biggest banks are no longer owned by the small families of plutocrats that got their systems going in the first place. Rather, these days, the biggest banks have gone public, and the public actually owns the vast majority of the shares of everything, through hundreds of thousands of various funds, which were mandated by governments to be able to operate and grow, until now they own things, rather than any small group of elites. There is now a cloudy group, a herd, of professional money managers, acting on behalf of large numbers of people, to manage funds, which constitute that Ouroboros of Incorporated Robbery.

IN THEORY, IF ENOUGH PEOPLE WOKE UP ENOUGH, THEY WOULD REALIZE THAT THEY ALREADY OWN, AND COULD CONTROL, "THEIR" SYSTEM. However, at present, 99% of the people act like political idiots, while a tiny fraction of 1% actually control the sovereign powers, and direct the ways that the financial and political systems operate. Therefore, we are now almost on cruise control, or on autopilots, towards our own destruction, because the systems that evolved from patriarchal militarism, to fascist plutocracy, are now being technologically amplified by orders of magnitude that are trillions of times more powerful than ever before in human history. HOWEVER, at this time, the overwhelming vast majority of people to not understand that, and do not want to understand that.

Therefore, guys like Jim Grant are seen as being perceptive and insightful, which is true within the old-fashioned mainstream moron frame of reference that Grant operates out of, and which his specialized audience presumes to also be still the case. That basic FACTS that there is a combined money/murder system, and that the debt controls depend on the death controls, are deliberately excluded from the understanding of the vast majority of people, and even from lots of those who post comments on Zero Hedge, where the level of understanding of the fundamental fraudulence of the financial accounting systems is way, way higher than average.

However, the BASIC FACTS are that the real systems are the runaway triumph of organized crime, and therefore, nothing else than radically different militarism could sustain radically different monetary systems. What we ARE watching is the established covert, almost completely crazy, murder/death controls, attempt to maintain the similarly insane numbers found in the money/debt controls. The astronomically insane financial numbers are automatically on cruise control towards astronomically insane mass murder numbers.

Furthermore, the ONLY genuine alternatives are do to those things better. It is impossible to stop them from happening. I just like to imagine some ways that, when they happen, they could be transformed to become not so bad, but rather better ... ??? However, since the overwhelming vast majority of people appear to not have the slightest clue, and most of those who think they do are still relatively clueless, my views are preposterous presumptions that somehow there will be a series of political miracles, occurring as events force enough people to wake up, and sufficiently understand what is really happening and WHY ...

Wed, 01/16/2013 - 00:12 | 3156637 blindman
blindman's picture

let me say and get away with this: you are
correct but use too many words, too many derivative
tangential references. if there is an abomination
find the fucking source and incinerate that, period.
let the rest, the dead, bury the dead; that is not
your problem, u have more important fish to fry.
do not waste your time, it has a limit!

Tue, 01/15/2013 - 22:05 | 3156298 blindman
blindman's picture

'50s Adventures of Superman - Intro
that other guy.
"The Deserted Village"
" what is going on around here?" l.lane.
admittedly weird americana shizzle.hat repeats
like a spicy malabsorbalbelle, ^tm.

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