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Visualizing Silver As An Investment

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Silver is like gold in many ways; both are precious metals with long histories as currencies. They are malleable, lustrous, ductile, resilient, and rare. However, as Visual Capitalist illustrates in this spectacular infographic, silver investors should be aware of the three main differences between silver and gold. From silver's relative volatility and correlation to industrial demand, track record, diversification benefits, and the three ways to get exposure to silver, this colossal image provides everything you need to know in one place.

Click image for massive (legible version).

 

Source: Visual Capitalist

 

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Sat, 01/19/2013 - 19:52 | 3169736 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

my slv up 300%....mi casa down 42%.

John Williams says silver may rise to $200 with the pervasive debasement of all the currencies as each country attempts to out-export the other with 'cheaper' goods; 'cheap' due to a weak currency. Witness Japan's huge effort to debase its currency.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:10 | 3169825 espirit
espirit's picture

And when the U.S. dollar bill is worth one cent or so much like the yen, we'll all be trillionaires...

loaf of bread $150.00

gallon of gas $368.00

median priced home $12,500,000.00

ugly picture Zimbabwe Ben has painted (I mean't printed).

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 09:15 | 3170413 unrulian
unrulian's picture

bet i could get a nice tailored suit for an oz of gold just like in 1920

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 09:51 | 3170439 espirit
espirit's picture

You remembered!

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 12:31 | 3170592 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

A nice tailored suit was 2000 pound sterling in 1986
when gold was at US$ 386. A tailored shirt in Bombay was
3 dollars including your guides' commission.

But you are right, stylish as in the 1920`s you had to
consult some third world old school tailors and 400 dollars well spent would have gotten you all the stares in the City and Wall street.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 19:51 | 3169739 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Lucky it is only $1.00 in value.

Says so right on the coin.

sarc/

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 19:56 | 3169744 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

Pretty, albeit inaccurate picture:

 

Investors have more access to silver than ever before due to more primary silver producers

 

A little truth please!

For over 4,000 years; most of the world’s silver was produced via “primary mining” – i.e. “silver mines” which produce silver just like gold mines produce gold and copper mines produce copper. Then, in the 1980’s and 1990’s relentless price suppression in the silver market drove the price of silver down to (in real dollars) a 600-year low.

This bankrupted more than 90% of the world’s silver mines (naturally), and most of those mines remain shuttered to this day. Since that time, most of the world’s silver (as much as 80%) has come from the byproducts of other mining. And despite the (current) eight-fold increase in price off of the absolute low, most of the world’s silver continues to come from this secondary mining. 

 

The Three Legs of the Precious Metals Bull: Part I


Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:49 | 3169795 joego1
joego1's picture

Still Silver mines here in Mexico.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:24 | 3170123 oddjob
oddjob's picture

No shit.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:21 | 3169767 Gooseleg
Gooseleg's picture

Physical silver is a no brainer.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:10 | 3170025 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Mmmmmmm, shiny. 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:36 | 3169777 mantrid
mantrid's picture

fourth main difference is that, unlike gold, pundits don't even try to ridicule it as barbaric relic or tradition.

money is a social convention. unlike gold, silver is not widely seen as a form of money, central planners and academics are not even afraid of it nor bashing it. for something to become money, people in the streets matter and they don't perceive silver as a currency candidate. it may be a good investment, a store of value but it will never regain its status of a currency.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:46 | 3169792 joego1
joego1's picture

As long as I can sell it and doesn't lose value I down for it.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:15 | 3169830 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I assume you have looked for 90% silver coinage from pre 1965 in the change you receive after your purchases. You may also be aware of Gresham's law. Just because bad money has run good money to ground does not mean people do not see it money. The reverse is true- it is exceptional money.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 01:14 | 3170177 mantrid
mantrid's picture

you may also be aware USA is no more than 5% world population so put these silver coins into valid perspective. in globalised economy Main Street people around the world matter.

just because Gresham's law made them hoard it does not mean they'll use it as money ever again. they have long forgotten about silver. money can't be exceptional, conventions must be universal.

 

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:18 | 3170373 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, it's exactly what you say it can't be. If it has no future use as money it won't be hoarded. Period.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 17:27 | 3171159 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Yes, but 25% of its' GDP. We're talking money. You might want to try a better stat.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:41 | 3169787 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Stacking aint easy.

But bit by bit it grows.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:44 | 3169790 joego1
joego1's picture

Here in. Mexico you can buy silver libertad coins all day long at the Banko Azteca  with Benny bucks.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:51 | 3169994 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

In Mexico City many of the metro, or subway stations have Bank Azteca branches where one can buy and sell silver.

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 12:59 | 3170620 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Here in. Mexico you can buy silver libertad coins all day long at the Banko Azteca with Benny bucks.

Here in America you can hardly find Libertads, and if you do the prems are WAY UP.

What is the premium on Libertads in Mexico for Benny Bux?

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:51 | 3169797 joego1
joego1's picture

Trade Benasourus Bucksucs for plata amigo.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:54 | 3169801 alfbell
alfbell's picture

pud:

talking about the past (where there was virtue, character, ethics, logic, prudence, etc.)... someone would buy a stock because the believed in and used the product or service, believed in the company's management and financials, and agreed with the company's purpose or mission statement.

Today to most "investors" none of those things matter at all. They'll trade in and out of a company numerous times with the hope of making a profit (doesn't matter that the company they are supporting might be a pharma company that is making the drugs that all our mass murderers take before they go out to the movies or drop by to see the kiddies in class at the local elem school).

The fall of the Roman Empire. It's deja vu all over again!!!!!!!

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:16 | 3170368 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

In all fairness today's stock issuers & underwriters don't want loyalty or control from the share-owners, they want to sell a company-ticket for fiat-IOU tickets, legal tender of the land, and won't do a damn thing the share-holders want if it's not a CONTROLLING, voting share. Otherwise you'll take your claims of growth, dividends & any other nonsense story while the balance-sheets are filled with fraud & lawyers are at the ready to argue away any accusation of theft, malfeasance, Houdinitis ala Corzined ala You're-Fucked(tm)(c)(R).

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 17:21 | 3171151 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Pud just thinks his investments are investments.

What if that education just makes him one of a thousand applicants with an equal 'investment'?

What if the pizza shop folds?

Are equities like real estate and prices always go up?

 

Face it. It's all gambling and the only differences are the odds.

Unless you own a bank.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 20:59 | 3169805 alfbell
alfbell's picture

Is there any chance that any of you fanatical PM guys could admit that there could be a possibility that PMs might not work out for you as a solution after we suffer a major economic collapse? That it doesn't take the place of the USD currency we've been using and allow you to buy or trade for the things that you need and want? Is there a possibility that with international bankers, central banks, federal and state governments, etc. intervening and going for the wealth, that the PM solution might now work? Just asking.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:09 | 3169821 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

We're not fanatical, we're thoughtful.

Statists are fanatical -- more loudly proclaiming their belief in their sacred status quo and its tyrannical fiat currency, no matter how obviously rotten it is, no matter how clearly it is self-destructing. 

It's like Jonestown, but the Kool-Aid is USD green.

 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:17 | 3169833 espirit
espirit's picture

And copper clad lead, along with other precious metals have retained value throughout history.

Viva la revolution.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:17 | 3169834 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Nope. No chance.

The USD will be ass-wipe. Because........................... it's just paper.  It's not wealth, it's not money, it's paper! Pretend all you want that it has magical powers, but it's just paper and there is an unlimited supply.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 18:36 | 3171266 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

To add...USD is CASH or currency...a medium of exchange... SILVER or GOLD is a STORE OF WEALTH.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:25 | 3169844 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Fanatical? Really?

Do you study history? Do you know the history of money? Do you know how it is used, debased, inflated to transfer wealth?

You have a choice: use what people have used for millenia to protect themselves from the depredations of the Elites or play along. Good Luck!

 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:19 | 3170040 Room 101
Room 101's picture

During a financial armageddon, the most valuable assets are things like food, medicine, drugs, weapons, etc.  PM's are for the times after that when some sort of order restores itself.  What you're really betting on is that PM's become the medium of exchange instead of, say, salt or antibiotics or laundry detergent. There is a lot of history that shows that PMs would be a medium of exchange given their relative scarcity, portability, etc.  But it's always possible that it doesn't work that way.

I think this discussion is sort of academic as it assumes that worldwide financial armageddon will be forthcoming.  I just don't buy into the premise.  What I think we'll see here in the US in the next 5-10 years is something more along the lines of Mexico in the 1980s.  Rotten enough, but not apocalyptic. 

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 10:46 | 3170478 unrulian
unrulian's picture

how long do you think the average USSA suburbanite, urban progressive or student debt serf with no job/food will retain his/her sanity in a mid 80's Mexico like economic state?

can you say powder keg?

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 13:36 | 3170649 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Mexico during the 1980s and 90s is an execellent example of the benefits of owning gold and silver money instead of paper pesos.  Silver Cuauhtemoc 5 pesos coins and the 50 peso 1.2 oz. gold coins retained their purchasing power and still are valuable,  paper pesos, not so much.  A 5,000 peso note issued in 1987 is now worth about 50 cents, thanks to the 1,000 to 1 "Reverse Split" of the peso in 1993.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:00 | 3169808 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

It only costs five dollars to print up another 5000 oz. COMEX contract.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:03 | 3169812 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Locally there is a run on silver.  Exhibit A: the large coin show today.  You see the same faces at every show, today was no different, but the lack of silver bullion for sale was unlike anything I've ever seen.  Dozens of dealers and plenty of numismatics, but almost no tubes of silver eagles.  If you could find one it was $36 per coin (a high markup).  No silver maples.  I saw some Phils at $40.  Junk silver quarters bought at $5.92 was best I could get, and there wasn't much avail.

It could be that silver price hovers around $30 and even drops into the mid $20s as it has the last two years, but I doubt it.  

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:16 | 3169823 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Holding physical silver only works if you own the factory that produces Tomahawk Missiles, and you have an angsty buyer needing to smash the crap out of some "Jihadists".

Sorry, but there's only two options here:

 

A) Do it old style (coffee house) and form a syndicate where all members must own X ounces of Silver, then leverage your position on the global market. [Which, being honest, if Sprott etc haven't done, then you know you're being taken for a ride; that's the only way you become a player here]

B) Hold whatever (truely paltry and shitty amounts) you can until global shortages raise the price, then sell into the market for a tiny [global scale] profit.

 

Hint: GS and aluminium. JP Morgan and Copper (this year - ffs, just do a GREP, warned you about this ages ago).

When you look at your stored ounces, or perhaps even a whole kilogram, learn something about SCALE. Jesus wept indeed, because you're shitting fairy bricks of Unicorn dust if you think that anything worth under $50,000,000 is going to bother the real players. Try Googling "industrial usage silver per day" for reference. Hint: those coins are minute dust motes in the global trade of silver.

Syndicate or bust: if you've not done this by now, then you're being played. Oh, and grow the fuck up, and learn about how Capitalism was formed. Coffee houses and Syndicates came about for very good reasons. If you're claiming to be Capitalists, then learn something;

Capitalism was formed by equal shares in enterprise, not sitting on a fucking pot of gold (silver) like some retarded Leprechaun. THAT WAS WHAT THE KING DID.

 

 

Grow the fuck up already. You are not the Kings here. Oh, and you may junk: but this is honest, and 100% correct. I dare you to step up to debate it, little man.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:20 | 3169839 espirit
espirit's picture

Sorry, what was the question again?

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:30 | 3169846 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

If you are buying into holding physical silver, then, either:

A) You must be joining a professional old-style Syndicate to leverage your own small holdings with other holders to present a Syndicate position

B) You're a tiny mouse, hoping silver will rise on the markets enough to cash out.

C) The fantasy, which is that when it all crashes, silver will be used as currency, which is over 1,000 years out of date.

 

My question is simple: Any smart money that organised the rise of silver [Sprott etc] would have instantly grabbed option A), as this is the best and most efficient way to leverage said commodity. With a properly (and legally) formed Syndicate, holding a solid 10-15% of all physical silver would be worth a few billion in terms of power / leverage.

 

Why has this not happened? Either it wasn't thought of (and you all lost out on the billion dollar pot) or it was deliberate.

 

Please answer me that. P.S. Junking is not a subsitute for analysis. Heck, if I was asked, I could have turned all individually held little coins into a multi-billion $ pot. It hasn't happened - why?

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:32 | 3169854 espirit
espirit's picture

One word. Diversification.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:39 | 3169859 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Doesn't work in an industrial market where the real buyers [*ahem* - MIC for missiles, already stated] have much more leverage than you, in both economic and political means. At any point, if the MIC says: "Not enough silver to make those missiles, <SAD PANDA>", the Government instantly, and without recourse, will go hunting for silver.

Hint: Look into Uranium markets.

Diversification means shit all if your market is controlled by serious businessTM

Or, oh wait... you're seriously telling me you're all this naive? And have never thought of even the basics of Capitalism like Syndicates?

 

Want to play again? I thought you people were good at Capitalism?

 

Oh shit, are you people fucked. No wonder you're not considered a real threat. Try forming a proper Syndicate, then I hope your Life Insurance is good.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:51 | 3169885 espirit
espirit's picture

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.

(Or sumthin' like that)

There is a life cycle to these syndicates, with exception of the Vatican.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:56 | 3169889 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yes, you're correct, but for entirely the wrong reasons.

The people who bank-rolled the Enlightenment, and Venice and Rome, still exist.

 

It's called many things, but at the bottom line: it's business. Or the Firm. Or whatever you want to call it.

 

Fuck me, lambs to the slaughter. And I imagined there was brains behind this plan, not just some scammy "Gold for trade" shit as done by Beck.

 

 

Professional tip: you're totally screwed. Sell it at the top, otherwise you're dog-food.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:59 | 3169900 espirit
espirit's picture

Silver is still business.

7 - 17 - 27 - 37 - 47.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:15 | 3169918 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Really? Please grab me a usage chart of silver in industrial sources over the last 10 years. I dare you. I've got one in front of me right now.

 

Top fucking hint: When NATO were slinging Cruise Missiles at Lybia, they had to stop because they didn't have enough inventory. I think the UK threw about 10? And then had to go re-arm from their tiny supply. And so on. So, please, tell me how many Tomahawk / Cruise missiles the USA fired in the last 15 years of warfare. [Oh, and please: tell me how much pure silver is used / missile, if you're not able to label the other 15 industrial processes that silver is used it. Hint: APPL screens].

 

Get a grip. Parasites are not determining the market, they really aren't. If you want to make an argument about speculation, then do so: but that's not what's being sold to the ignorant saps, is it?

 

Hyenas, carrion eaters: meet a lion, and all they can do is snicker & run.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:17 | 3169932 espirit
espirit's picture

Ah, quip to the U.S. Mint and give it a break.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:30 | 3169953 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Well done. Nary a single argument, and nary an ability to discuss the foundations of real Capitalism. You know, that whole trade thing out of London that revolutionised the world, and that "ideology" you're all so fond of. Why Colonialism happened, why "The West is the Best" and so on

Turns out, you're not actually Capitalists: because otherwise, the first thing you do is form a fucking Syndicate, leverage your positions, and make a shit load of cash.

 

You're just sheep in a silver cloth; not even up to Jason and the Argonauts standards.

 

Pathetic.

 

(Oh, and for the record: I don't junk; I view them as the soundtrack to the Welsh Highlands here: "Baaaa", "Baaaaa", "Baaaaa")

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:50 | 3169993 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Capitalism has its' foundations in Salamanca, Scotland and France. England was late to the party, but very capable. You do know where capitalism comes from? 

Pathetic.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:55 | 3169996 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

You're joking, right?

Capitalism has its foundations in Babylon, my friend. Adam Smith merely codified something that was far, far older.

 

Or was all that trade beforehand just... um... "Socialism"? Here's a great learning lesson: tell me why the Arabian countries revolutionised math over and above the Roman system?

 

Hint: Money and Trade, you ignorant barbarian.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:42 | 3170074 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Adam Smith merely put in book form the ideas of his professors and Contillion. Many of which came from the Salamanca School. Was there trade and exchange in older civilizations? Sure- were they capitalism? No. However, feel free to quote or source your material. 

You have yet to provide a single answer, except to your own questions. You think you are some "special" intellect. Poser.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:18 | 3170118 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

No, you've not answered a single question of mine.

 

Look upwards, I asked a few questions. Answer those, and you can get smug. [Hint - it's the post with about -20 junks on it]

 

 

Still waiting.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:38 | 3170137 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I hoped you could follow a thread. (the answer lies below). I've answered all your questions, too bad you have no references for any of your ramblings, I guess that is the sure sign of a keen mind. Good night!

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 01:09 | 3170172 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Jesus loves you my angry friend... :)

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:13 | 3170367 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

There is no top to sell into.

By the time we're ready to get something non-gold for our gold and non-silver for our silver the current exchange papers won't even exist anymore, at least one of them. By the time I sell my gold Euros will not be legal tender anywhere. US dollars probably won't be either.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:58 | 3169897 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Silver was used as currency in the US, up to 1964. How is this 1000 years out of date?

Why hasn't it been leveraged? Have you seen fiat currencies destroyed? Have the CB's not been able to kick the can down the road? Consequently, what power would you have in the market?

We could consider history and the famous attempts to corner the market, but those were frustrated by the government. You do know what the ESF is? 

Your ignorance of how fascism functions, how elites control systems, seems to cloud your vision. 

Exchange is the story of history itself. Many forces have attempted to hijack exchange and they have succeeded to various degrees, but if you are not one of those elites, your choices are few.  Anyone can operate within the system, is it not a good idea to plan for other possibilities? 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:13 | 3169905 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

No, it wasn't, it was merely a % of coin. And yes, all the rest of that is obvious, and yes, I know what the ESF is. Silver / Gold diluted %  in coins is a different matter to what we're really talking about.

Hint: Back then, silver wasn't an industrially useful metal.

 

Name me a single man [hint: Greek history] that held enough to force a determination of a currency on his own holdings, when he was based on an industrial metal. [You may, if you wish, attempt to reference Athenian Silver mines and their usage / final exhaustion, and I might respect you for that.]

 

That is what this is about. And in the land of binary, you're snorting unicorn dust.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:27 | 3169957 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The definition of currency is a method of exchange. So, yes it was. You like to make grand statements alluding to power and control. THAT is NOT what it is all about. Whether you respect me or not is meaningless. My god, you are full of yourself.

The land of binary is exactly that. A space in time. It is not the only place, nor does history guarantee it will exist in the future. 

You are betting on the status quo, you are defending the status quo. There are different definitions of progress. One may include liberty being more important than wealth or power or influence. 

 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:34 | 3169971 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

No, actually, I'm not: don't tilt at windmills. Oh, and shut up: Money is always about power and control; that's the fucking point of it.

Simple question: if you're able to parse the modern science of the periodic table, then why is silver and gold so special?

 

Hint: they aren't. And if you cling to their historical properties, you're doing more to cling to the old definitions of power and control than I am.

 

 

If you want a grown up discussion, then I'm happy to do so: you might have to ditch a few of your own mental chains before we do that though.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:02 | 3170014 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

No, money is about exchange. Power and control merely use it as a tool. Though they aren't as effective if they have to depend on silver and gold.  Which is the point. Shut up? That's the best you got? What a child.

Silver and gold have a history of scceptance as wealth mechanisms. As do platinum amd paladium. No matter how many new elements we discover, regardless of their market values, people continue to choose gold and silver. I guess, THAT is what makes them "special". That's the problem with subjective values. Tulips, tobacco, fiat currency, they come and they go, but silver and gold remain. You may not like the fact they are special, but then, you don't have to own them. 

If you want to have a grown up discussion, you'll have to grow up...

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:09 | 3170093 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

As do platinum amd paladium. No matter how many new elements we discover, regardless of their market values, people continue to choose gold and silver.

Here's a fact, and solid tip:

#1 The periodic table doesn't get larger - we can manufacture some crazy hard-core combinations in zero G and zero C conditions, but you don't get to make more elements (on Earth). It's called, "Science, Bitch". That you don't understand that worries me; look up when we discovered all the elements. Kinda like... hmm. A lifetime ago.

#2 Humans price markets - until you discover the usages of elements, they're worthless. In AD 70, Uranium ores, and Oil were largely worthless. If you want a 20th Century example, Indium traded at about ~ $60 / ounce. Until we discovered a use for it. Hit $1,000 / ounce pretty sharp.

Oh, wait. Gold and silver should always have the same value? Remind me when the Romans wanted silver to put into fucking Cruise Missiles, you idiot.

 

You're a child; and not even a special-snowflake one at that.

 

The plus point is: you can cure that ignorance by learning some shit. That's the beauty of the World-Wide-Web.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:13 | 3170113 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

 

Although precursors exist, Dmitri Mendeleev is generally credited with the publication, in 1869, of the first widely recognized periodic table. He developed his table to illustrate periodic trends in the properties of the then-known elements. Mendeleev also predicted some properties of then-unknown elements that would be expected to fill gaps in this table. Most of his predictions were proved correct when the elements in question were subsequently discovered. Mendeleev's periodic table has since been expanded and refined with the discovery or synthesis of further new elements and the development of new theoretical models to explain chemical behavior.

All elements from atomic numbers 1 (hydrogen) to 118 (ununoctium) have been discovered or synthesized. Of these, all up to and including californium exist naturally; the rest have only been synthesized in laboratories. Production of elements beyond ununoctium is being pursued, with the question of how the periodic table may need to be modified to accommodate any such additions being a matter of ongoing debate. Numerous synthetic radionuclides of naturally occurring elements have also been produced in laboratories.

It's called science, bitch. Further, known of those elements are thought of as money. Just because we place a value on an element does not make it money. Worse, you confuse value with the dollar amount affixed to a commodity. 

Of course humans price markets, it's called, "Human Action" I have never said gold and silver should have the same value. Do you have to create an objection to think you're right about something?  That is really pathetic.

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:24 | 3170120 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Just because we place a value on an element does not make it money.

 

Thank you, I love it when people see sense. I seem to remember Ag and Au being elements, no?

Just proved my point. Hint: look upwards, at the first line in this chain, and indeed, the point of this OP's thread, and what I've been arguing against all this time.

 

 

So glad when they agree with me; shall we just agree to agree then? :)

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:31 | 3170130 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You are so desperate that you attempt that nonsensical argument? You're not a very good loser, not surprised. 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:50 | 3170145 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

People are putting their "fiat" into tiny, small, and paltry stacks of silver coins. And you're attempting that argument?

Stop being a troll, and go back to my first statement: Without a Syndicate, buying metal [Ag / Au] means nothing, unless you have over $10 mil in it.

 

I can easily demonstrate this from the last silver buying bubble, from the 1980's. Want to know who killed him? >REDACTED< mentally ill clock-work plant, my friend. (You know; that program)

 

Oh, and you're not a very good troll, not surprised. Not a good shill, either. Next time, get them to spend a bit more dollar for my pay grade - the only reason I'm answering you is to send a message to your handler about how demeaning it is to talk to your pay grade.

 

In the old days, I'd have just sent him your head. Progress, one supposes.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 06:03 | 3170309 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Take five steps back and look at the forest instead of staring at the fucking stem in front of your nose!

 

It's currency debasement that's leading people to purchase any physical asset, PM's are most common because of 5000+ years of traditional usage as vehicles of value storage & exchange. I don't need an effin syndicate to manipulate prices or make profit, the only thing I'm interested in is storing the product of my hard honest work into an instrument your beloved gubbermint cannot destroy (since you're adept at hinting, let me return the favor - google 'FED + 85 billion/month' and see what results you get).

 

Oh, and one last question to test your profilgacy in history: which motherfucking Syndicate made those poor Romans from 1900 years ago to save and bury their pots full of old, rusty, "worthless" 40%-silver coins?

 

Enjoy your serfdom, bitch!

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:38 | 3170386 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

@TWD +1

~~~

Thank You for finally saying it...

Syndicate Schmindicate... (all being directly applied to some non-sensical "value" argument (on Ag ~ priced in dollars)... [&, using a 'statu quo' background to boot]...

Jesus Tapancing Christ ~ Next thing you know, we're going to be 'schooled' into believing water is worthless because it covers 70% of the Earth's surface & that hydrogen [it's primary ELEMENT] is ubiquitous...

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:43 | 3170390 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Worthless water and hydrogen - LOLLAPOLOOZA.

Good call FS

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:24 | 3170378 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Just out of interest. Working by your thoughts, if you are currently a paper millionaire, a multi millionaire or even a billionaire, you can't do shit, because you need to be a multi billionaire to play in this world right?

I can live a very comfortable life as a millionaire thanks, I don't need to be a PLAYA.

But please come back to me with a bitter and twisted retort.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:39 | 3170133 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Indium for you, rhodium for me.  Now there's a chart showing what's possible, even for an element.  Newton could have used that instead of the apple.  Well, truth be told, the same thing (~90% wipeout) happened to silver as recently as the late 20th Century.  But it's money!  All those dead people can't be wrong!  History doesn't ever repeat, does it?

Personally I find all these beliefs silly---paper or some element---but I'm willing to go along with the majority and genuflect with the rest of the faithful.  Maybe that makes me a spectator instead of a player, but like Groucho, I'd never belong to a group that would accept me as a member.  Right now the masses worship at the altar of infinite fiat, and between the time I produce something and when I have the need for something else, I'll carry my energy in whatever form the majority accepts.

Should something ever hit the fan, I suspect that if humanity ressurects any of the old gods, it will be the golden idol and not it's neer-do-well brother.  Germany didn't ask for any silver back, did they?  The kid behind the counter at the local 7-11 might recognize Au, but present him with Ag, pyrite, steel or solder, and he won't know one from the other.  And who's got time to assay when being chased by zombie hordes?  And that heavy bag of coins?  I'd rather have a bicycle than try to buy off the zombies.

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 01:02 | 3170163 ActionFive
ActionFive's picture

I'm waiting to see what  Asia determines, not you.

Stand up when you pee.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:09 | 3170365 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Jesus fuck you are an idiot.

Elements now up to 118 have been made ONLY by humans NOT by nature & due to nucleic instabilities some theoretical element numbers may NEVER be produced

https://www-pls.llnl.gov/?url=science_and_technology-chemistry-element_1...

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:17 | 3170038 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Heck of a job you're doing here, AexM.  Bold, cocksure and original.  It sure beats the tired old one-note song of "bitchez!".  If we're all supposed to be about challenging assumptions (that try to disguise themselves as "logic"), then it's fair to challenge any and all assumptions.

You raised a lot of interesting issues (but about ten comments ago you left out Firenze, and the ancestors get irritable when that happens).

Silver is the "Poor Man's Gold".  Silver is the "Poor Man's Fantasy".  In this attention deficit and economical MTV Era, the latest edition of Merriam Webster reduces those two phrases to one simple word:  Retail.  The US Mint being out of coins one can buy by the ounce (plus commission, shipping and handling) suggests retail's got the fantasy fever.

The moonbats around here, who are usually on top of every conspiracy man-made and supernatural, always seem to leave out the eternal curse put on the Tarnishable One for its role in a certain Friday Massacre some two Millennia ago.  I'm shocked, shocked I say, that a brilliant analyst like David Icke never "proved" that curse is what took down Nelson Bunker Hunt.  I mean, it's all there for the linking.

Forwarned is forearmed.  Doesn't 'Tulving' even sound like an alias of the Evil One?  I seem to remember my great^x grandcousin Dante Alighieri "coined" that name.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:38 | 3170068 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

I'm also well aware that Machiavelli wrote a satire on said rule, and was cursed (and this is real power) for all eternity for people to think he was espousing the same ideals. What better purgatory than an avowed Republican and man of the people to be forever lashed to the ideology of power?

And no, I mentioned Florence? Oh, dammit, I said Venice and did not include that. Mi dispiace. [Short form and hurried are my answers; errors will be made]

 

~The rest, will wait. I tire, and need rest.  If you're bored, trying GREPing my comments for reference to L'asino.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:24 | 3170124 tickhound
tickhound's picture

I see you're settling in nicely and all parties have now been properly introduced. 

Gli estremi si toccano.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:49 | 3170382 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Slingblade opening scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCJZij74-J0

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:06 | 3170362 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

rare, malleable, safe to handle, ductile & conducting electricity as well as highly reflective - and solids - yes it matters VERY MUCH which part of the periodic table the money is in, more than almost anything else.

You may as well be Max Fischer. You're more of a troll than MillionDoucheBag.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 01:14 | 3170176 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Liberty, and perhaps property, are the latest moral spheres.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:57 | 3169893 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

I think the correct question is:

wtf?

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:58 | 3169898 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yes, I thought that.

-8+ junks, and I'm the only one selling the idea that syndicates are the way to leverage commodities.

 

 

 

Put it nicely: the wolves are merely howling at my moon, and you're the meal this year.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:31 | 3169961 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I realize you're going out of your way to pick a fight (and you've come to the right place) but WHY are you valuing silver in fiat terms?

You thinking that the soldiers of a dying empire will fight (trade their services for) a piece of paper no one respects as payment anymore?

How many loaves of bread does an ounce of silver trade for vs a dollar? How much was a loaf of bread ten, fifty, a hundred years ago...in dollars?

There is your answer...ow ow ow-wooooooo!...lol.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:38 | 3169975 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Dammit! Stop that! [Baby steps for silver hoarders] ;)

My point is breaking through several paradigms here; silver in "the perfect world" is only useful for it's industrial properties.

 

Put it another way; I think we both know we're aiming for a system that cuts all this crap out, aren't we both?

 

 

(And yes; of course I'll take the junks to present some ideas. I'm not a coward or sheep)

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:58 | 3170000 nmewn
nmewn's picture

;-)

"Put it another way; I think we both know we're aiming for a system that cuts all this crap out, aren't we both?"

Yes, cut out the manipulation of value(s).

We both know something will have to be exchanged of intrinsic value between the soldier (protecting the baker through his labors) and the baker (feeding the soldier with his labors) with something a little more tangible than just a smile.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:01 | 3170009 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

And we both know, in a perfect system, that doesn't have to be a metal from the periodic table.

Dictum meum pactum.

 

Economics is more complex than a smattering of base metals on the hand, as we all know.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:14 | 3170029 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, I guess the onus is on you then, what is your vision of the "perfect system"? ;-)

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:19 | 3170037 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Hey, that's cruel: I'm not Stalin.

First rule of A club: we'll probably discuss this until the Sun goes Red and the planet ends. [The point is: you get to discuss it, and adaptive changes to society are much quicker than a formalised and hierarchal set]

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:24 | 3170047 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I never said you were Stalin.

First Rule of N Club is don't fuck with my shit...ever...lol.

Seeya round ;-)

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:40 | 3169976 espirit
espirit's picture

Me too. Now pass that unicorn dust please.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:46 | 3169985 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

If I mention "Bronies" and link you to the /chan/ board that deals with that, your mind is going to be totally blown.

Put it this way: the largest growth sector in the toy industry, apart from lego, last year was males aged 18 - 30 buying "My Little Pony" merchandise.

 

You have no idea how fucked your culture is :)

 

"Friendship is magic!"

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:07 | 3170019 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

((pssst, over here. . .furries.  yup, "culture", fuk'dyiff yiff))

 

I normally stand back from your always well argued points, but that dangled bait was too much for me, oops!  I blame the interwebs, heh)

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:46 | 3170030 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Glad to see I'm not just being silly; Bronies are different from the yiffs (and yes, I know all about them), for this reason:

It's a memetic pulse that reduces tension in the beta males that usually (classically) results in patriarchal aggression. The old "First son inherits, Second son to War, Third son to the Church".

 

If the second sons [beta] love the ponies, then we're on the next step towards the BG rule. Friendship is indeed magic, but perhaps just a little deeper than expected.

 

Oh, and yes: disclaimer: ravings of a total lunatic, nothing like social conditioning is happening, it's all accident yadda yadda yadda.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:24 | 3170121 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

perhaps when cultures elevate the male to top o' the pile status, those cultures should not be so surprised that males find. . . each other. . . to be most attractive.  it's merely aspirational, to be seen with the most admired objects.  of course, again, who is it they're impressing?  the further up the pyramid you go, the more obvious the "arm ornaments" on the suited arms, preferably decorated with much shiny gemstone bling - again, the target to impress is who??

only the dreaded terror of being seen as teh ghey stands between national prosperity (more citizens = taxed) and extinction (so far, men cannot reproduce themselves, but perhaps 3D printing will innovate).

in those cultures where the baby-makers are kept covered or incarcerated at home, where 90% of humans seen in public are men, often those men are seen walking about holding hands - as friends, of course!

I've used the story before. . . in another life, I managed "rock" bands, who would play their guitars slung crotch level (mmmm vibrating strings), gaze into each others eyes as they sang/strutted/rock'd out, come offstage, grab a quick willing female admirer, *relief* - then immediately back to the company of men for the balance of the evening's drinking/gossiping, etc.  I've seen the same habits in many different settings, in my travels since.

the online communities of males, be it /chan/ or MMORPG, or spaces I've yet to discover (phew!) are full of dudes looking to impress other dudes, no homo bro!!!  I see it as a harbinger, and not at all unexpected, and perhaps it will eventually wean the hyper-polarities of stereotyped "man" and "woman" action figures available into something, err, more soft, plush even.

*wink*

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:39 | 3170138 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

There's a world of comment in there (and love the youtube references), but I'm zapped tonight [too much Mali]. All I have to say is that: thank the Goddess we're moving beyond the "let's "emancipate" females by allowing them to act like males" crass bullshit of the last 20 years, there's a something else.

Look up empathy and bonding in the youth today; the fact they're all doing disaster relationships is purely a matter of bad training. The bedrock of real social cohesion is actually there, there's simply no guidance though.

 

Hint: Chances are; it's the males these days who are getting screwed over in emotional terms [in non-Alpha social settings, and yes, all of that rape stuff. Again. For a few thousand years. Hmm. Let's be stopping that].

 

Bleh - 7am, this is too long to stay at the helm, I apologise.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 01:36 | 3170188 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

yes, back away from the computer, where time stands still, even if the body/eye moans.

I'll look for you around the threads, and if the appropriate moment arises, bother you again *smiles*

meantime, I of course will add to what you've posted, since it's a favourite topic of mine (doh) - re: emancipated females, they've been image-in'd for centuries, and are only very recently (in terms of time passed) finding their *voices* outside the memes created just for them by the cultural meta-narratives, so of course there will be dead ends that prove use-less over time.  the main trends I have observed is either throwing off "feminine" to compete with "men" (archetyped or stereotyped, but definitely typed) because they've correctly ascertained that feminine = weak, particularly culturally;  or they're retreating to hyper-female roleplaying, yummy-mummy types competing with each other for attention - attention which culturally used to be reserved for men, and maybe not so much any more.

(and I'm sure I'll get major shit on that last assertion, but all one need do is look at the roles culture offered to women prior to the '60's "cultural revolution" - virtually all television presenters, newsreaders, politicians, figureheads of business, higher learning professors, corporations, military, church, sports - male.  women were taught to display, hence the over-emphasis on appearance, whilst men could just be, culturally, naturally.  of course, the narrative has shifted somewhat, some say intentionally, and men are getting the scrutiny payback)(I am mainly referencing amrkn cultural stories here, global differs, despite the attempts of Hollyweird to homogenise consumers)

the disaster relationships, friends with benefits, polyamory, yadda yadda - all experiments in freedom, having shed the leash. . . and yes, I'm seeing a lot of young males "getting screwed in emotional terms" - although I believe in order to understand what you believe (in), pain causes one to upgrade their personal awareness, over time, if one can steer clear of bitter self pity parties, or acting out control-rage.  so perhaps this is all an appropriate rite of passage, on the way to emotional maturity, which is sadly very absent in the cultural story of late.

fascinating time to be alive, as seismic shifts rock our world(s). . .

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:38 | 3170385 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

How in the yiff do you two know about this?...and why can't I stop clicking on your links?

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 19:00 | 3171305 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

heh, I can only speak for myself, but I am always curious about how cultures arrange themselves, the stories they tell to each other, what they believe in, and the excuses offered. . .

the Brony & Yiff stuffs is a study in the mostly under 30's kids, and more closely, the 13-25yr olds - older ones were raised with Pokémon & anime, with My Little Pony & Hello Kitty accessories. . . fascinating to see what they pick up, put down, run with. . .I do volunteer work with folks of all ages, so I get quite the spectrum of beliefs on display.

and if one is at all curious about possible future trends, that's the place to focus the lens ^^

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 22:47 | 3171745 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Culture culls those who don't want to conform, or at least it used to.

 

 Now, it's all good.

 

And that's great. 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 23:40 | 3171862 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

culture polices on behalf of the scriptors,

believing in itself, and the scraps thrown its way.

the global web of communication is showing alternatives

to cultural restrictions.

and I agree, it's great.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:51 | 3170150 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

So men play guitars and women go horseback riding, but occasionally the twain do meet.  And the rest is poetry...er....relief.

Don't tell me you thought "hot to trot" was just a random series of words?

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 01:00 | 3170160 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Nayeighhhh. .

 

you once berated me to "lighten up" - hope this works for ya.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 02:33 | 3170226 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

As Lauren said to Bogey in The Big Sleep:  I like that.  I'd like more.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 19:33 | 3171358 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

psssst: grrrls play guitars too, Aurora's link'd, & one of my current faves.

oh noooooes, we've lost hold of the reins!!!

proof?

Jack White covers Dolly Parton's Jolene, brilliantly.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:32 | 3170057 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

Put it this way: the largest growth sector in the toy industry, apart from lego, last year was males aged 18 - 30 buying "My Little Pony" merchandise.

You have no idea how fucked your culture is :)

Well, yeah, that's pretty fuckin' fucked. No other way to put it...

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:36 | 3170064 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Speaking of bronies, you come off as a major clopper  - one who masturbates to my little pony in between feeding their ego ( for legitimate reasons or otherwise ) by playing an intellectual goliath arguing with strangers on the Internet.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:59 | 3170075 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

If I wanted to masturbate a horse, I'm well off enough and connected enough to do it physically. But thanks for that rather... damp attempt at trolling.

Oh wait: Did I hear someone stating that arguing with strangers on the internet was "wanky" while reading it on the internet?

 

Oh, shit. /chan/ irony cannons engaged! We've got a fucking woman on the internet with us!

 

And, of course: Tits, or GTFO. [newfag]

 

 

p.s. Your avatar is about 5 years out of date; go run and cry to the SA forums, or I'll set SRS on you.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:32 | 3170131 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

pssh, everyone knows there are no women on the internets!!

 

just G.I.R.Ls (guys in real life).

 

((doing a helluva job keeping the thread alive on a saturday night there A, heheh. . . very, cheeky ^^))

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 02:53 | 3170222 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Bronies?  Damn, yet one more thing about which I had no idea and cannot comprehend.  I'm so...out of touch.  For example, I don't understand the need for Viagra, but find it somewhat amusing that the top US cities for prescribing it are Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Fort Worth, Lubbock and Arlington (TX not VA).  And the lowest?  Boston.  Apparently Tex can fill a hat, but can't climb into the saddle unassisted, while all the liberals at Hah-vard can cowboy up as needed.  Ivy League, baby.  Oh, then there's the why of Adam Sandler being famous.  Never understood.  And buying pre-ripped bluejeans.  And tattoos, as if any of us will be proud of the skull and crossbones on our butt when age makes it droop low enough to sweep the kitchen floor.  And why people worship guns, rather than just seeing them as a sometimes useful tool.  I mean, do we prattle endlessly about our routers and awls?  Even sushi.  Let's be honest...it doesn't really taste that good, and with the risk of bacteria that comes along with it, it seems...overpriced.  I believe it's an affectation, at least in the West.  Prometheus paid a dear price, by the way, and we owe it to him to use what he sacrificed so much to give us.  I know Japan very well.  They sell used schoolgirl panties out of vending machines, and men read Manga on the subway that shows virile salarymen schtupping yet more schoolgirls, but thankfully we did not feel it necessary to copy those. Why sushi?  Send it back!  I ordered medium rare!  Oh yea, and I honestly believe nobody in the world really finds futbol, or soccer, the least bit interesting, but the world collectively has been taking the piss out of Americans for years.

Okay, so all that's off topic, but after some seven hundred thousand articles about silver, is there really anything that hasn't already been said?

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 22:48 | 3171750 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

When the comet slams into our terra, nothing will matter except that it only ends once. 

 

Everything else is progress. 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 07:11 | 3170326 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

In the USSA they are unable to register all guns, but they KNOW exactly who purchases "My Little Pony" merchandise?

If your Cuntry knows this then it is a bigger police state than ours.

Unless there is photo proof of those males why would you believe it?

How do they separate the fathers buying for their daughters?

 

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 19:42 | 3171377 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture
Military Bronies React to Teens React To My Little Pony

no really, watch it.  there's a whole world out there you've yet to sample.

and more.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:00 | 3170355 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What you're selling is snake-oil.

Individually we can, and are, trading commodities. No syndicate required. When getting bigger we can work as communities & that's fine - it's just us neighbours keeping out the bad-folk.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:21 | 3169842 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Why do you want people to believe 1 oz coins are just too insignificant to invest in?  

Anyone can go buy 200 one oz silver coins and enjoy strong profit without the syndicate nonsense you speak of.  Two or three years ago Apmex was selling silver ounces for $22 and that included shipping to your door.  The same silver oz now can be taken into any dealer and sold for about $32.  Today's purchase of silver coins will likely generate at least the same rate of return two years from now.

I know an older couple who had the wherewithall to accumulate silver coins when they were younger.  You can see the joy in their eyes when they walk into the neighborhood coin shop and exhange one silver dollar for paper money, then go have a heck of a lunch.  

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:21 | 3169941 ptolemy_newit
ptolemy_newit's picture

where do they live?

if the world doesnt crash then the silver price will be stable to lower?

if it does crash do you think your family is safe the day after you start sellling silver / gold?

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:57 | 3170003 Room 101
Room 101's picture

If the world crashes, your family isn't safe if they're found in possession of a baloney sandwich.  

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 07:54 | 3170350 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Already unsafe - in America you have EBT's but in Canada while we have equal healthcare we have sparse soup-kitchens, food-banks with severe limits & shrinking donations, welfare that won't pay for rent+food (not even rent alone many times, in the most dangerous + cheap parts of town) and no EBT. That's right, no such thing as food-stamps.

So you know what?

"rich" is all relative - a fiver or a sandwich the other guy wants, and you're a target.

Now. Today. Forget "collapse tomorrow"

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:06 | 3170363 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I collected only for numismatic reasons and Trade for Other Goods.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:31 | 3169853 joego1
joego1's picture

I think you miss the point. Most people are not holding silver as an investment but a store of value for after the economic collapse. If I trusted the system at this point of the game I would be fully invested in it. There is simply too much evidence the system is corrupt and rigged. The main point is the market will not exist in its current form in the next ten years.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:39 | 3169867 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

These are the only two alternatives? What arrogance.

Your assumptions show a lack of imagination.

No black markets? No community organizations around simple exchange? No use of silver and/or gold as a reserve mechanism for a new currency system? 

Capitalism wasn't formed, it is a process, a method of encouraging production through the pursuit of profit. 

I have yet to meet anyone that is 100% correct and you have failed miserably. 

No one here is forcing you to buy silver. They have opinions and the future will be borne out. Deal with it, little man.

 

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 08:05 | 3170359 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

A lot of gun show guys will give you a better trade for silver than paying fiat.

I got a suppressor at 12% off using Ag of which I used to have a lot.

The suppressor and silver were stolen recently.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 02:01 | 3170206 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Your post was about as cohesive as a set of thighs on a lard ass.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 07:53 | 3170347 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Nothing honest about it. I'm already bartering silver by the coin for food & that's what it's for.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 12:12 | 3170564 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Wow!  What vitriol Aurora.  I have to ask, what the fuck is the matter with you?  Hey, you don't see me posting on AAPL or ES threads do you?  What the fuck is it any of your business where we choose to invest our capital?  You know, after 15 years on the Interweb and getting chased from innumerable financial boards, I am really starting get sick and tired of your ilk.  Are you in the employ of JP Morgan or what?  Why does it bother you so goddamned much that some of us like silver or any other PM's for that matter?  What, we should all start daytrading e-mini's so we can get fucking algo'd into poverty?  Is that what you are suggesting we should be doing with our capital?  If so, then FUCK YOU!

I have an idea; how about you mind your own fucking business and we will mind ours.  Is that reasonable?  You and your ilk are NOT taking our PM's or our guns by diktat or any other way.  Got it?  Is that sparkling clear to you yet?  And just so you know, one day you will end up working for one of us.

Recall what Tyler Durden said in Fight Club:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEdgzndKuog

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:42 | 3169870 A Humble Man
A Humble Man's picture

I hope they keep the price suppressed for a few more years so I can accumulate more......

I dont have enough yet.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 21:59 | 3169899 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Buy silver, don't buy silver. Run with scissors, don't run with scissors. I don't give half a rat's ass what other people do, or their rationalizations for their choices. They get to enjoy the results for themselves.

I love the shiny, jingly stuff and will keep buying silver whenever clumps of cash find their way into my hands. Silver has done quite well by me so far just in the feeling of security it provides to have quick access to an increasingly valuable asset.

And even though it has come in stits and farts, I can trade it in for about 3 times as many bogusbux as I spent on it.

Yeah, I've been doing it for a few years now. I'm happy with the decision and my family's eager support. Each of us has bought at least a few hundred ounces for the 'fund.' It takes time to acquire and it takes determination to hold onto it.

If one of us finds out we need a new hip or a couple of metal knees, we can do it with the help of our silvery friends. They keep going up in value while our meat depreciates.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:03 | 3169911 Insideher Trading
Insideher Trading's picture

In terms of electrical conductivity silver is the creme de la creme.

However, unlike gold, silver tends to oxidize in oxygen rich environment and is rigid. 

A better and common alternative is an alloy of niobium and tin.

With electricity being the one thing that separates us from the 3rd world, neither gold/silver are worthy.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:11 | 3169923 espirit
espirit's picture

Tin is good. It makes my boolits hard.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 07:51 | 3170346 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Graphene trumps it all.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 07:56 | 3170353 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

In about 20 years maybe.

Wed, 01/23/2013 - 22:37 | 3181591 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

We're pretty much there already. It's just a question of scaling up production of nanowires & pore-filters and suddenly purification of water is bazillions of times cheaper & faster than ever before. But why settle for bazillions when you can have Meelions?

Silver will remain useful but easily inside of 5 years graphene will displace that. Same for electronics. It's REALLY not hard to make sheets of graphene which is why it won't be hard to make tubes either. One of these days someone's gonna get tired of the nonsense that's failed so far & probably layer it onto something else that just bends under a charge or thermal change & snap - you've got a series of tubes and you're done.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:06 | 3169914 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

I was downtown today going into different shops watching what peeps were buying - expensive jackets, shoes and tourist crap (its a tourism mecca here). I went into a shop in China town that sells tools, jewellery, native art and collectibles - I go here once in awhile to buy gold - today picked up 2 quarter ounce maples - thats what I call shopping - bought something nice and shiny and felt good about  it.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 03:15 | 3170249 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

'Peep' show eh? I love those.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:09 | 3169919 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I just finalized my green algae recipe.  Green investment funds are working with me to become listed on NASQ. I’m so excited, my ticker will be DKWD. We have so many revenue streams to pick from. My guys are telling me the IPO is going to hit 1 trillion dollars at opening day.

We have Oprah pimping the algae pill & liquid weight loss program. Michelle will also be featuring our exclusive WH algae hair straightener.  This special blend of algae will take any brillo hairdo and turn it into straight silky hair. Our special formula will keep your umbrella at home. Never worry about high humidity or a sudden downpour again.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:13 | 3169927 espirit
espirit's picture

Will it double as a bio-fuel? Could be on to something there.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:23 | 3169944 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

AlgaeWay™ will save the day. New Infomercial TV ad fill in coming your way..

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:31 | 3169962 espirit
espirit's picture

I like the idea of "lizard lady" up in flames... or with gas.

Hint: The politically correct term is "nappy".

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 11:03 | 3170497 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Hint: The politically correct term is "nappy".

That's what Don Imus thought as well.

 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:23 | 3169929 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

I just read it...

There are people here who predict silver at $100+ in the next year or so.

There are the same people here who suggest that silver will rise towards the moon when "society collapses."

So then, there are predictions here of society collapsing in the next year or so....

 

Where are the predictions that, in admission of manipulation (control) of silver now,

manipulation (control) of silver will become Less, on our current trajectory -- to support their guesswork at silver price?

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:23 | 3169948 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Visualizing silver as a cat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN6za4hyELg

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:24 | 3169952 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Gee, I hope society collapses this year so I can have silver that no money can afford.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:42 | 3169979 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Since I'm poor, I buy "junk silver" as well as some gold. I'm confident that when the dollar and the other fiat currencies collapse, silver and gold will once again, be used as real money for trade amongst us hoi polloi :)

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 22:58 | 3170004 alfbell
alfbell's picture

Thanks for the few responses. Improving my understanding of the whole PM viewpoint.

Re: "fanatics". I apologize for that. What I was really referring to was the incessant, short but sweet, finality of... "GOLD BITCHEZ!!!" that seems to emanate from the mouths of so many on this blog.

Hey Aurora Ex Machina! Maybe you should change your name to Arroganta Ex Nice Guy or some such. Lighten up guy. We're all friends here. We're here to learn and teach. No need to be rude and over-bearing (obviously it worked for you at some point in the past but it ain't working now hotshot). Try a little honey instead of so much vinegar and you'll increase the level of communication and edification... if that is in fact what your purpose is.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 12:32 | 3170596 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Hi alfbell.  Thank you for your post.  I think you are spot on.  I had to read further down the thread to see what got you pissed off.  When I found what Aurora said it really pissed me off too so I had to get out my light sabre and go Gagnam Jedi style.  Sorry.  I do enjoy honey more than vinegar but that Festivus pole that is Aurora Ex Machina needed some basic lighting.  I do realize I missed this edition of fight club but fights will go on as long as they have to.

"A deus ex machina is generally deemed undesirable in writing and often implies a lack of creativity on the part of the author. The reasons for this are that it does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina

 

 

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:10 | 3170021 mt paul
mt paul's picture

don't really care about the price of silver any more....

all that concerns me lately

are those heavy little packages the fed ex girl 

delivers most mornings .

 more boat ballast..

 

long silver

nov 2008

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:24 | 3170048 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

i've found that pre '64 silver US coinage is by far the way to go(for me anyway). It's 90% silver, it's legal tender when the shit hits the fan, it has intrinsic value, ie. 1 1916D mercury dime can fetch you hundreds of dollars, they are easy to store in rolls and/or tubes, collectible, and always appreciate in value. Two mercury dimes could by you a gallon of gas back in the fifties. Two mercury dimes can buy you a gallon of gas today, and you'll get change. Pawn shops are a great place to buy the dip when silver goes down, or at least the ones I hit on. Ebay is another place if you watch for the "desporados" selling. Apmex has a great selection but the premiums are a little steep. Love Gold, but silver is easier on the ole wallet. Invest in a safe too, it's worth the peace of mind, just like my guns.

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:49 | 3170087 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Engaging in numismatic stuff can be fun, but is hardly a real play on the metal value. There are quarter eagles out there that go for multiple thousands of dollars and have a melt value of all of $200 at the moment. Nothing against them, but they are not a bullion play. Silver dollars have a melt of $24.66 at the moment. You would pay $30.74 today for culls from Provident. Get up into the higher grades and the price goes a lot higher. Get into graded stuff by PCGS and you are talking double+ the melt value. For the unwashed who are not coin dealers, PCGS costs $20 bucks a coin at the lowest end + postage to and from. Nothing against coin collecting, nothing against silver coins, but silver coins for bullion are not the same as silver coins for collecting. Same for gold coins. Again, all of the above can be an option. Just make sure you understand what you picked and why you picked it. If I had an 1841 quarter eagle in any grade, the price would be totally insensitive to the price of gold. If I had a 1851 quarter eagle, the price would be heavily governed by the cost of gold in the lower grades, and modestly so in the higher grades.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 00:51 | 3170152 hairball48
hairball48's picture

I don't buy numismatic silver. Just the plain old "junk silver" 90% halves, quarters, dimes. I buy at a local coin shop in very small lots compared to what most of you guys buy. The price is based on "spot" at the moment of sale. Premium over spot is very small <2% last time I bought just before christmas when it was at $30.04/oz

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 02:03 | 3170209 moroots
moroots's picture

Just bought some junk quarters today for $5.77/each which I thought was a great price. Unfortunately my boat sank on the way home and all the coins were lost.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 09:51 | 3170442 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

You know the exact same thing happened to ALL my silver and when my guns and ammo mounted a daring rescue attempt they too sadly were lost...

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 11:19 | 3170511 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

"Engaging in numismatic stuff can be fun, but is hardly a real play on the metal value."

 

It's a play on scarcity.  Numismatics is also a monetary educational experience.  It leads one to buy the Krause publications which then leads one to start reading and wondering what the fuck happened to this or that currency.  The answer is usually the same:  The central bank of xyz fucking ruined the economy and stole the wealth of the citizens by switching to paper and printing.  For those that care to observe the finer details, you can really see that shit paper printing accelerated in the 1960's all over the world. 

Numismatics is the study of the monetary history of the world.  You can make plays on low mintages that are undervalued if you so choose.  Numismatists also tend to be bullion buyers as well and also form relationships with other numismatists thereby creating a liquid market that is invisable to most people.  To borrow from LC55's succint statement, I have never met a numismatist who is a "low info voter".

Maybe today should be "coin appreciation day" for my children.  Again.

 

http://www.krausebooks.com/coins-papermoney

Sat, 01/19/2013 - 23:34 | 3170060 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Silver used to be inelastic supply. inelastic demand. Most silver is "mined" as a byproduct of copper and not mined as silver per se. Recovered silver is recovered silver. A lot less of it now that silver halide photography has shit the bed. Inelastic demand is now more elastic with silver halide film gone. The last heavy users were xrays and now those are totally digital almost everywhere. The property of silver that is exploited is its high conductivity even when oxydized. For that purpose it is inelastic. It is elastic for ornimentation such as silverware, jewelry, etc. The only coins that are made now are the ornimental "medals" struck by the mint. Personally, I like silver, but that is just me. Lower cost of entry, markup is less. More to store for equivalent value over gold and pt. Perhaps all of the above is a good way to play the game.

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