Guest Post: Crisis, Contagion, And The Need For A New Paradigm

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Gary Evans of Global Macro Monitor

Crisis, Contagion, And The Need For A New Paradigm

In his lecture at the Latsis Symposium 2012 “Economics on the Move” in Zurich,  Nobel Laureate Joe Stiglitz nails the fundamental problem and crisis of modern macroeconomics, which failed to predict the financial crisis.

If you say…what is good science is prediction… and you can’t predict the most important event in 75 years, what good are you?  In particular, it might be very nice you can talk about the likelihood of an one tenth increase in GDP growth rate…and you miss a major economic downturn….or worse, they said the things can’t happen…

Here are the money quotes,

We all know the shock in this crisis…was a credit bubble and we have had those credit bubbles since the beginning of capitalism…So it was remarkable the intellectual bubble led people to believe there were no such thing as credit bubbles when there was 200 years of history of that…..How could people be so stupid?


…The theory was with well functioning financial markets, spreading risk, diversifying risk, risk is contained.  They came to believe the models and that’s always dangerous.

Say it ain’t so,  Joe.  Say it ain’t so!

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WTFx10's picture

W. HUGHES, Premier of Australia, Saturday Evening Post, June 19, 1919

"The Montefiores have taken Australia for their own, and there is not a gold field or a sheep run from Tasmania to New South Wales that does not pay them a heavy tribute. They are the real owners of the antipodean continent. What is the good of our being a wealthy nation, if the wealth is all in the hands of German Predators?"


"All the world suffers from the usury of the Predators, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor.
Then as now Predators have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live."

NESTA WEBSTER, In World Revolution, The Plot against Civilazation, page 163

"Since the earliest times it is as the exploiter that the Predator has been known amongst his fellow men of all races and creeds. Moreover, he has persistently shown himself ungrateful... The Predators have always formed a rebellious element in every state."

FRANZ LISZT, famed composer quoted in Col. E. N. Sanctuary's Are These Things So?, page 278

"The day will come when all nations amidst which the Predators are dwelling will have to raise the question of their wholesale expulsion, a question which will be one of life or death, good health or chronic disease, peaceful existence or perpetual social fever."

JESUS CHRIST, speaking to the Predators in the Gospel of St. John, VIII:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. - then answered the Predators - "

(which makes it clear that Christ was addressing the Predators.)
MARTIN LUTHER, Table Talk of Martin Luther, translated by William Hazlet, page 43

"But the Predators are so hardened that they listen to nothing; though overcome by testimonies they yield not an inch. It is a pernicious race, oppressing all men by their usury and rapine. If they give a prince or magistrate a thousand florins, they extort twenty thousand from the subjects in payment. We must ever keep on guard against them."

REV. GORDON WINROD, in his book The Keys to Christian Understanding, pages 114 - 115

"Judaism does not know Jesus Christ. Judaism hates Jesus Christ. When St. Paul was in Judaism, before he was converted to Christianity, he hated Jesus Christ and persecuted Christians and Christianity."
Paul said: "You have heard of my earlier career in Judaism - how furiously I persecuted the Church of God, and made havoc of it; and how in devotion to Judaism I out-stripped many men of may own age among my people, being far more zealous than they for the tradition of my forefathers." (Gal. 1:13, 14, Weymouth Translation)

While in Judaism, Paul persecuted Christians because of his intense hatred for Christians and because of his conformity to the tradition of the fathers. This shows that the tradition of teachings of Judaism are filled with hate for Christians.
Few people know of this because they do not carefully read their Scriptures and because of the great pains which Predators have take to deceive the Christians. Care has been exerted by the Predators to hide their ECONOMIC-POLITICAL conspiracy for complete world domination UNDER high sounding words that have a "RELIGIOUS" ring in the ears of Christians.
The Predators use such "religious" sounding words as "the Predatorish faith," "the Predatorish religion," "Predatorish spiritual values," "Predatorish religious doctrines," and like phrases which deceive and lead the unlearned into total equanimity.
Behind this mask of religiosity stands a complete plan for world government, world power, world conquest, a Predatorish kingdom of this world, and the destruction of Christianity.
REV. WILLIAM S. MITCHELL of Philadelphia, quoted in Count Cherep-Spiridovich's book The Secret World Government, page 194

"If there is an ingrate in history, it is the Predator. In this land which befriended him he as conspired, plotted, undermined, prostituted and corrupted and (hiding to this hour behind the braver screen of other folks), dares to contrive and scheme the death of every Christian principle which has protected him."

WASHINGTON, GEORGE, in Maxims of George Washington by A. A. Appleton & Co.  

"They (the Predators) work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America."

This prophecy, by Benjamin Franklin, was made in a "CHIT CHAT AROUND THE TABLE DURING INTERMISSION," at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787. This statement was recorded in the dairy of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, a delegate from South Carolina.

"I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Predators.
In whatever country Predators have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal.
For over 1,700 years, the Predators have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race.
If you do not exclude them from these United States, in their Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives our substance and jeopardized our liberty.
If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude Predators for all time, your children will curse you in your graves.
Predators, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will nor how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even thou they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Predators are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention.

STYVESANT, PETER. 17th century Dutch governor in America.

"The Predators who have arrived would nearly all like to remain here, but learning that they (with their customary usury and deceitful trading with the Christians) were very repugnant to the inferior magistrates, as also to the people having the most affection for you; the Deaconry also fearing that owing to their present indigence they might become a charge in the coming winter, we have, for the benefit of this weak newly developing place and land in general, deemed it useful to require them in a friendly way to depart; praying also most seriously in this connection, for ourselves also for the general community of your worships, that the deceitful race - such hateful enemies and blasphemers of the name of Christ - not be allowed further to infect and trouble this new colony. (Letter to the Amsterdam Chamber of the Dutch West India Company, from New Amsterdam, September 22, 1654.)

The Predators whom he attempted to oust merely applied to their fellow Predators in Holland, and the order came back from the Company countermanding the expulsion. (For a similar situation during the Civil War, see ULYSSES GRANT). Among the reasons given by "their worships" for over-ruling their governor, one stands out rather glaringly, in view of the usual Predatorish contention that their people were 'poor and persecuted:' " ...and also because of the large amount of capital which they have invested in shares of this Company." (Harry Golden and Martin Rywell, THE PREDATORS IN AMERICAN HISTORY)
THE GEORGIA COLONY IN AMERICA. On January 5, 1734, the trustees ordered that three Predators who had been sending correligionists into the colony without authorization "use their endeavors that the said Predators may be removed from the Colony of Georgia, as the best and only satisfaction that they can give to the Trustees for such an indignity offered to Gentlemen acting under His Majesty's Charter." (C. Jones, HISTORY OF SAVANNAH)
JEFFERSON, THOMAS. 18th century American statesman.

"Dispersed as the Predators are, they still form one nation, foreign to the land they live in. " (D. Boorstin, THE AMERICANS)
"Those who labor in the earth are the Chosen People of God, if ever he had a chosen people. " (NOTES ON VIRGINIA)

"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks." John Dalberg Lord Acton

PUD's picture

1. Eliminate debt based money, leverage and non-delivery commodity speculation.

2. Turn all banks into utilities whose primary function is the fiduciary of transactions and the safeguarder of savings

3. Eliminate the 2 party system

4. Eliminate organized religion

5. One world currency so that money can't be used as a weapon

6. Eliminate all derivatives

7.Eliminate all hft trading, day trading and anything like it

8. World currency pegged to a basket of real world goods and services

9. Elimination of all central banks save one world bank utility

10. End usury the lending of money at interest.


There ya go...elect me and I will fix it

ItchyBeard's picture

"...elect me and I will fix it"


How many times has someone said that and then fucked the people in the ass?

morning_glory's picture

Let the intellectuals and Fed get on with it.


They are just bought and paid for fluffers for the bankers and they will rot in hell alongside them.

Temporalist's picture

Stiglitz like Krugman and Bernanke and all the statists, elites and wannabes will still miss all the problems, or intentionally skirt them, because they avoid the real issue, one which Lawrence Lessig now is trying to broach (which led to Aaron Swartz' death) and which Cornell West touched on recently here (but unfortunately his cognitive dissonance preclueds him from admitting the problem mainly arises from govt.) is the lack of honesty, the systemic fraud, the plutocrats and oligarchs.

I recommend watching the Cornell West piece.  Here is a quick quote "I'd be in a crack house before the White House.  And the reason why I would is because at least the crack addicts are honest about their addiction.  The White House is addicted to power."


Speakng of Aaron Swarts:

WikiLeaks says Aaron Swartz may have been a 'source'

Seer's picture

We're addicted to GROWTH!  Growth (and promises of) is what (political and, generally, social) power is derived from.

Temporalist's picture

No that is a current theme but it's just one of the propagandist ploys for the elite.  It is no different than bread and circuses and in the present manifestation is derived from Keynesian economics but satisfies the sociopathic desires of power and thievery. 

Convinicing people that fraud and criminality is commonplace and acceptable is infinitely worse and how the current system originated and are the rotted pillars on which it stands.

Rainman's picture

Since Joe is on the subject of macroeconomic dysfunction, I wonder if he also noticed that Subway's 5-dollar-footlong has nothing to do with the length of the sandwich.

AnAnonymous's picture

You need a new paradigm?

When you have 'americanism'?

Too bad, I can announce you 'americanism' is here to stay, whether you like it or not.

mvsjcl's picture

Nothing is "here." Nothing ever stays. Nothing you write ever makes any sense.

IamtheREALmario's picture

Maybe it is time to bury the "growth" paradigm and create a new one.

Seer's picture

Open up a physics book.  Mother Nature guarantees that it'll end (despite Dick Cheney's insistence that the American Way of Life isn't negotiable- perhaps he's right, one doesn't negotiate with Mother Nature).

pine_marten's picture

Pandering, boot licking PHD sluts...........

falak pema's picture

so they brain washed Ronnie and Maggie in the 1980s???

lol, JR has many followers in the hunt for red october.

Your utube if its supposed to indicate what happened then,  based on that logic, would have Gorbatchev winning the cold war, not Bush Snr! 

My, we are still twenty thousand leagues under the sea!

Calling Capt. Nemo! 

Seer's picture

How can he offer a model(s) as an antidote to the problem of models being unable to properly account for risk?

NOWHERE is there any questioning of the fundamental flaw of basing everything on the notion of it being perfectly acceptable to assume that we can have perpetual growth on a finite planet!


q99x2's picture

a a a and a a a it is a conspiracy Jo. Start with a premise that is valid. Do you also believe the take down of each successive country in an identical way to third world economies is also just a coincidence. Check out Simon Johnson. He tells it like it is.

Stop that Academic'x paycheck.

Seer's picture

I could/can accept the notion of there being a coordinated effort (that seems fairly clear); however, I do not believe that this necessarily means that it's certain that it's all derived via "malicious" intent; it could be, but I think that it does proper rational discussion a great disservice to not evaluate other possible motives.  And it's under the heading of "other possible motives" that I believe lies a MUCH bigger problem than handfuls of tyrants...

What if this is a dismantling/liquidation of a system that's based on an improbable premise of perpetual growth on a finite planet?

Do you, as the pilot, try to tell everyone (those in 1st class and those in cattle class) that they're all going to die, or do you say that you're on target for your destination?  How about if you're just sitting on the tarmac, BUT, with the tarmac on fire?  If people bailed they'd be burned alive; could you really convince people to stay inside on the remote chance that the burning tarmac would consume itself and the plane had a chance of buffeting the fires?

Perhaps not the best analogy.

Blaming people/groups of people for not being able to fix an un-fixable situation gets us nowhere.  I think that it's a big fat no-brainer that the current paradigm is the problem; however, the paradigm in question isn't capitalism, it's our notion of basing everything on growth (perpetual growth on a finite planet = not good).  So, Stigletz is right in one sense, but it's more of a notion that we need to get RID of this idiotic paradigm (acknowledge it) than coming up with some other paradigm (which would likely continue with the flawed premise of perpetual growth on a finite planet).

knowless's picture

Spreading risk so thin through derivatives does nothing to negate and offset real world risks to production and stability, it just puts them all in the same pool to simmer until you get the moment of no return, the sheet spreads out until it is so thin, so pervasive, that a butterfly going in for a gentle landing is a spark which can evaporate the structure in it's entirety. That's where propaganda and the police state step in, to keep it corralled, but it's a virus, not an external or internal threat, it can't be contained geographically. And all attempts to do so only spread that effort of control ever thinner. Until finally the law is so weak that alternate systems realize that it has no bearing on their actions, and so is abandoned. However generations of conditioning don't just disappear over night, many will continue to believe out of a necessity to maintain their own sanity, which will be the truly dangerous element to the future survival of our species, those not willing to accept that things are no longer what they were.

All irrelevant speculation of course.

JR's picture

As if the economic crisis weren’t enough, we’re now being plagued with banker spin in the person of an award-winning socialist.

No honest America who has witnessed the growth of free enterprise America would blame the economic corruption on capitalism; it’s a Marxist trick.

A financial crisis? Financial crisis for whom?  Again, just as in the Great Depression, the bankers are richer and the people are poorer. And award-winning socialists such as Joe Stiglitz blame "capitalism.All this, while the financial sector’s profits as a percentage of all domestic corporate profits reach again the 45.80% reached in December 2001.

Again, as Schumer-demonized banks such as Indy Mac go under and high-risk-taking investment banks such as Goldman Sachs gain bank holding company status , the Fed banking cartel continues to protect its members, just as in the 1930s.

In the “great” depression tens of thousands of farmers went bankrupt and with their collapse, rural banks collapsed in record numbers – 9,000 banks closed their doors between 1930 and 1933 alone, taking hundreds of thousands of their customers with them.  Today, with the economy hurdling toward the same results again, and the banker Fed only pushing the trend, one is left to conclude again that the Fed is eliminating its competition and consolidating its power.

Thousands of investors were hit hard in 1929 and the 1930s. Among the well-known, Winston Churchill, heavily invested in American stocks, lost heavily. Clarence Birdseye who had put the $30 million in  proceeds from the sale of his packaged frozen food business into stocks was wiped out. William C. Durant, founder of General Motors, lost more than $40 million in the stock market, and “wound up a virtual pauper."

But Paul Warburg, a partner with Kuhn, Loeb & Co. and founder of the Fed, and his friends made a little profit. In March of 1929, Warburg leaked an advance warning to his list of preferred customers to get out of the market. These were fellow bankers, wealthy industrialists, prominent politicians, and high official in foreign governments. A similar list was maintained at J.P. Morgan Co.

“The men on these lists were notified of the coming crash,” says. G. Edward Griffin in The Creature from Jekyll Island –the Fed.

“John D. Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, Joseph P. Kennedy, Bernard Baruch, Henry Morganthau, Douglas Dillon –the biographies of all the Wall Street giants at that time boast that these men were ’wise’ enough to get out of the stock market just before the Crash. And it is true. Virtually all of the inner club was rescued. There is no record of any member of the interlocking directorate between the Federal Reserve, the major New York banks, and their prime  customers having been caught by surprise. Wisdom , apparently, was greatly affected by whose list one was on.”

falak pema's picture

you have a recurrent problem with the english language and an unquenchable thirst to hunt for dinosaurs; the hunt for Red October...

Even Communist Russia is now on the neo-feudal Oligarchy page.

Try learning the new, new, new russian language tovarich. It will lead you to the City! 

City lights and shard delights! 

JR's picture

Thanks for the response, falak pema.

To me, the Russian revolution is a unique opportunity for the world to learn valuable lessons about tyranny, political duplicity and unspeakable violence by man against man, against masses of innocent, voiceless people. Ironically, many of the lessons to be learned can be realized in modern trends of politics and especially finance.

And, to think, the triumph of Lenin was not that long ago.

Red October brings to my mind Ghosts of the White Night by Peter Savodnik, of the Solovetski islands on the White Sea - the haunted ground of the Soviet gulag -the most awful killing field in the Soviet empire--"the mother of the gulag" as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn put it, singled out for the Communists’ ghastly mission of death because of its lonely   isolation. From here came the silent scream that no one heard from the hundreds of thousands of the world’s bravest and best young men who were starved and tortured in the Solovki in the 1920s and 1930s for their resistance to enslavement..

 "A place with no connection to the world," Solzhenitsyn wrote. "A scream from here would never be heard,"—the Solovki, the remote islands in the frigid waters of the White Sea, in the 1920s and 1930s, where hundreds of thousands of innocent “enemies of the revolution” were shot, starved and tortured.”

Solzhenitsyn is not an ancient figure from an era past; instead he is a man of our era, and, frankly, saw the patterns of his gulag memories forming in Western countries. Is this to be man’s fate? Again - because of silence?

Seer's picture

"Is this to be man’s fate? Again - because of silence?"

To twist it a bit: people who spoke out were killed.

Speak or don't speak, the result is the same...

Solution?  Never give your power to others.  Whenever you give an entity the right to kill others on your behalf (no matter, even if for the noblest cause of "property rights") that entity has the right to kill YOU.  Power-mongers and killers will always be attracted to these bestowed positions.

Also, keep in mind that many who are the "innocent" could very well have likely been the aggressors in power previously.

It's more so about power than what banner it flies.

Seer's picture

Is that commentary on your words, or would you like to engage in an actual debate on what I wrote?

JR's picture

I disagree with the suggestion that guns and a united citizenry will not be part of the solution.

We live in a world where nothing is accomplished that is not supported by force.

The government is abusing its citizenry because it has a reservoir of military power that backs up its advances, particularly at the ballot box where the financial elite have overwhelmed the system by engaging an imported voter mob to trample the legitimate will of the people, their property rights and liberty.

But citizens have a reservoir of power if they are informed and act in a single direction for their interests. An informed citizenry eventually will not permit itself to be dominated by a military government.

What this means is that there is a point when the government’s armaments, if need be, will be swamped by the people, including those citizens in uniform and in command positions. IOW, there’s nothing stronger than an informed people with resolution, and the significance of millions of small arms in the United States, at this point, should not be underestimated.

This is what revolution is; the people up in arms, the bankers hiding in caves, the politicians running like rats and the U.S. tanks turned against the government. The people won’t get anywhere without force. This is not a game where you say, Please sir, may I have my freedom back?  You take it back.

Thomas Paine’s pamphlet on Common Sense led to the most important armed revolution against the most powerful military country in the world. Small farmers took on the military might of England and won.

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again." -- Thomas Paine, Common Sense

falak pema's picture

...No honest America who has witnessed the growth of free enterprise America would blame the economic corruption on capitalism; it’s a Marxist trick....

I have no problems with your views on Soviet manipulation and dire despotism. 

I do have a problem with your view that the hundred year old capitalist trend of US power construct is not a home grown phenomenum, based on elitist greed and callous materialist values of its concoction in a continent where pioneer+ Cavalry ethnic cleansing made it nice and empty; half of it built on imported slave labour. That to me is a given constant of its past history.

SO how can you transpose the Soviet experience on to this pure US excroissance of hubris fed on "the sky is the limit" fast track, runaway train JP Morgan/Rockafella mentalitiy and ideology?

The fault dear Caesar is that we built this house ourselves. 

Your premise is delusional and thats what I objected to...Marx did not directly influence the course of US capitalism, but he truly predicted where it would lead to. We are there now.

IamtheREALmario's picture

People used to assume there is n invisible hand of the free market. Before that people said that it was God's will. Today, I think we are getting closer to an understanding that outcomes as an aggregate are the result of a very, very, very long-term "program" that leaves its fingerprint mathematically on the world in the same way that technical analysis shows the fingerprint of the plan on the stock market. EWe can see something, but generally by looking backwards, not forward.

At our base, we are all programmed and we live in an environment with (a very large number of) finite variables. We approximate free will because we have choices and individually we may, but as a group, society, species and ecosystem, we may not. Our variance from the center of the bell curve of outcomes is most likely nil... shifts in the center of the curce may happen with outside influence, but the outside influence is a slave to the exact same forces as the rest of us.

Fractal THIS!

JR's picture

The invisible hand relates to free enterprise and legitimate capitalism. But what we are dealing with here is the visible hand, central planning: crime, corruption, greed, and the search for a world government so that the elites can manage labor and resources of the world for their own personal benefit.

As boooyaaaah said earlier on ZH: The Invisible Hand begins the Big Slap Down.

"We don't need no stinking regulators -- we will kill the bastards ourselves."

 In economics, the invisible hand, also known as the invisible hand of the market, is the term economists use to describe the self-regulating nature of the marketplace.[1] This is a metaphor first coined by the economist Adam Smith in The Theory of Moral Sentiments. For Smith, the invisible hand was created by the conjunction of the forces of self-interest, competition, and supply and demand, which he noted as being capable of allocating resources in society.[2] This is the founding justification for the laissez-faire economic philosophy.

Seer's picture

Ah, it's it nice to be a romantic!

Study history.  Endings never seem to be what you're looking for, it's filled with humans and such... The reality is that there is insufficient resources to squander on trying to keep all of the genies in the bottle.  And if you're looking to save resources and utilize easy lead then that's likely to backfire (kind of kills the notion of gentlemanly contracts and all).

Doesn't the bible have invisible hands too? (yet things just don't see to go according to it/them either)

Same camp as Skittles and Unicorns.  Don't get me wrong, I think it's all great, but I'm not going to hold my breath (or waste a bunch of precious energy promoting something that can never materialize).

JR's picture

Freedom of action, coupled with representative government rather than controlling government and banker-controlled central planning, and renewed emphasis on a moral, contract society can be contagious again if our self-serving rulers, who feed off the labors of the people, are pushed aside.

Ironically, greater freedom not only is the solution for our political and policy problems, it’s also the fixer for our so-called “fixed” quantities of resources.  Coal and oil are fixed resources, but not energy. Automobiles are becoming a fixed transportation resource, but not transportation. Because our future resources are unknown, it does not mean they don’t exist.

Resources—oil, corn, or iron ore—are inanimate objects.  It is man who invented steam; it is man who makes steel and circuit boards.  And it is man who makes politics and government.  It is man’s government, whether it is under a Saudi king, the Soviet politburo, the Chinese communists, or the Constitution of James Madison, that moves the inventions, the production and the resources.

For 6000 years, man struggled as a beast of burden to exist under despotic government.  It is time we realized that civilization’s progress rests on the foundation of a single principle: freedom! China dies as soon as its American corporations are withdrawn or taken over by a communist government. A tremendous volume of goods produced in China is produced by American corporations located there: those corporations are protected by American patents and American innovation which were developed under a free-enterprise system.

New York City in 1800, population 30,000, began to double its population every 10 years. But as Columbia University’s David Rosner explains, the city was fast growing something else besides people. Horses.  Between 100,000 and 200,000 horses (mostly draft horses at work on the streets every day) lived in New York at any given time. And each, writes Rosner, provided an average of 24 pounds of manure and several quarts of urine every day.  Transportation problem?  Yes, but try cholera, typhoid, typhus, yellow fever and more. Who, crossing through the steaming muck and dodging the teams on a busy Manhattan street in those days, could have forecast today’s whoosh of subways and flash of Yellow Cabs?

How many field laborers a generation ago, swathing and stacking wheat by hand, could imagine their grandchildren driving self-propelled combines to produce flows of clean grain so fast that only large trucks could keep up with their speed in the field because young Cyrus McCormick, with the right to a patent, had put skill and years of hard work and late nights into the invention of his machine, the harvester?

It’s wrong to put a limit on what the future and resources can bring if a man’s free activity is protected by government, not managed by government and ruled with a whip.

Seer's picture

You continue to fucking over-romanticize shit.  The PROBLEM ->IS<- GROWTH.

The horseshit thing is nothing I hadn't already known about.  Yeah, car manufacturers back then were touting cars as environmentally friendly: I'd gladly take the externalizations from those horses (for composting) over the externalizations of car manufacturing.  Same corporate fuckers claiming that smoking was good for you...  Go ahead and remove the reigns and let these demons roam as they wish.

I'd LOVE to have that perfect world too, but until you can manage the details you're only dreaming.  Those who already have control will continue to do so.  How are you going to overlay your "everyone can trade as they like" meme?  Anyone daring to compete against the powers will get wiped out: to think otherwise is dangerously naive.

Again, I love all the old stories, and not matter how well-sounding they may be they are STILL stories.  No one back then could have imagined the way power has concentrated (though the "industrialists" sure gave it a good run).  And no one back then had a concept of resource depletion.

"It’s wrong to put a limit on what the future and resources can bring if a man’s free activity is protected by government, not managed by government and ruled with a whip."

Protected by government, how?  You mean that I, as someone in the rural countryside, can depend on govt protecting me from thieves and attackers?

If govt can carry a gun (which it needs to force compliance- the uniqueness of govts is that they are given the right to inflict violence) then it can use that gun to kill you.

Find me ANYWHERE where there exists your Utopian environment.

JR's picture

Don’t limit your powers of imagination, Seer.

You are right about the current situation but I’m not suggesting we continue on this current road to Serfdom.

The trite expression of thinking outside the box applies here; we are in a box restricted by corruptive political powers that have monopolized markets, trade, growth, profits and politics.

We in America are lost, completely, if this box is not broken and new ideas, new systems, and especially, free markets are not allowed once again to operate. And by free markets, I do not mean government assisted or protected markets; I mean markets whereby it is assumed the players have the necessary information and ability to act in their own self-interest.

America did not become the world's greatest success by burning and consuming her resources; she got there by developing and growing her resources - by replenishing the earth. She did not reach her heights under an economy centrally planned by a private banking cartel, the Fed.

Freedom, not Ben Bernanke, not hydrocarbons, created this new world.

Human energy has not varied greatly in 6000 years; the physical earth has not changed historically; many poor peoples live on resource rich lands.  It is not raw materials, it is not central planning, it is freedom that allowed human energy to make use of these raw materials that created this rich new world.

America’s gift to the world, the gift that lifted the standards of living for all people, was the fruit produced from individual freedom: the opportunity to own property and develop the means of production.  America, as steward of her resources, advanced man’s progress that for more than 60 known centuries had advanced no farther than wagon wheels and open fire cooking, where men were no more than beasts of burden, carrying their possessions upon their backs.  

It was freedom that enabled men to use their energies to advance man from walking barefoot as a beast of burden to flying a spaceship to the moon.

If we can end the Fed, we can once again be free.

Seer's picture

Clearly you get the Big Picture.  Others are still at a lower-plane of thinking, thinking that we can just "fix" some theoretical/virtual system in order to correct things.

williambanzai7's picture

They were all dancing until the music stops according to Chucky Prince.

That's is exactly what they were doing. No need to predict anything.

Musical chairs for pinstriped thieves.

Seer's picture

And, the big secret is that we're going to continue doing what we've been doing for as long as we can.

icanhasbailout's picture

Someone needs to point out to Joe that the "private" banking system is nothing of the sort. Need a state license to incorporate, another one to run a bank; fractional reserve lending is of course a by-government-fiat system, the currency that is used in this system is public and routinely manipulated by the government for its own ends, and so on and so forth.


The only truly private aspect of this banking system is the profit-taking.

Seer's picture

Is profit-taking really private?

As Aldus Huxley basically put it: when there becomes more and more people the very notion of freedom kind of becomes extinct.

shovelhead's picture

We need a new paradigm that outlaws the use of the word "Paradigm".

Seer's picture

That's an interesting PREMISE! (not so subtle suggestion for a replacement word)

AgAu_man's picture

Stiglitz does well what everyone should do well:  Look after his own tribe, and they look after him.  Problem is, most people have not only abandoned their Tribes, but ratted them out to other Tribes.  Despicable!

This fiscal 'contagion' is something that came from the US and was sold to unsuspecting banks in the EU.  A form of enslavement, akin to Voldemort giving 10 rings to 10 kings.  What they did not know hurt them.  Like it hurt the US and the EU.

AgAu_man's picture

As a species, we don't lack technology, knowledge, fiat money, imaginary fiscal products, "growth" or anything else.  What we lack, as a species, is WISDOM!

The deadly combo of unchecked greed and technology merely accelerates the cancer-like diseased 'growth'.  This combo accelerates the timeline to our (avoidable) demise, if only we would grow up and wise-up in time.

AgAu_man's picture

ON NATIONALISM & PATRIOTISM:  Seeing the state of things in this country and the world, and the fact that I only have a personal or professional relationship with a few hundred people (a Village!) out of hundreds of millions in the US or billions on the Globe, I've given up on this quaint and TPTB-serving and Feudal-Lord-serving notion of "nationalism". "My" country.  Really!?  "My", or that of the Feudal Lords who literally own > 80% of it?

Let's be 100% and brutally honest here, shall we?  Life is worth living for.  Some things (my Village) are worth fighting for, and damn few (my family) are worth dying for.  The rest I could care no more about than they care about me.  That's intellectually honest.  All else is BS, lies and propaganda.

So, "No!"  Go and fight, if you wish.  Find some other useful-fool to get maimed or killed for the "We're #1, we're #1..." chanting zombies.  Stop infringing on my life and pursuit of private health, wealth, happiness and privacy!

Spoken like a real Libertarian.