This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
What Happened To Precious Metals?
Correlation may not be causation but it seems more than a few funds were using precious metals as collateral for their levered longs in AAPL...
Something changed on the evening of 1/23... (hint)...
as Gold's almost perfect correlation with stocks fell apart the moment AAPL reported... margin calls anyone?
...and for those wondering about Gold's relationship with stocks - today's equity push and gold weakness takes the ratio of the S&P 500-to-Gold perfectly to the average level post-Lehman...
Coincidence, perhaps?
Charts: Bloomberg
»
- 34203 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Well ... gee whiz.
Whatcha bet they were playing with somebody else's money, too.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Insolvency is a bitch arse holes.
one bet too many
Are any of the gold and silver miners worth looking at as they plummet alongwith gold ?
The Exchange Stabilization Fund is what happened to gold and silver.
Sign the petition to audit the Fed's gold
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/01/21/petition-to-audit-the-feds-gold/
ZOMG, 1660...it's the silverbugz who bought at $49 on that "$60 by next week" call that got blowtorched
You have to overlay a chart showing the money supply verses the price of gold and we have a one + year disconnect. Don’t worry something’s got to pop and my bet is gold.
The last time we saw gold get pushed down like this was around the last election.
Nothing these days is real except for the weight of gold/silver.
Fucking banks!
Badabing: "You have to overlay a chart showing the money supply verses the price of gold and we have a one + year disconnect."
You should also overlay that with the global debt (debt denominated in US dollars) and you would find that the debt is still overwhelmingly larger (Or as I suggest can't be repaid). That is deflationary.
Additionally, I have always suggested in a world of dollar denominated debts, other things of value would have to be sold to raise dollars to meet those debt obligations. Well, this thread would be a perfect example, if one could prove causation. Another thing to note is that, as the thread opines, gold/silver is not the perfect collateral. First, it was probably paper PMs, secondly, if you had the physical, you probably wouldn't be able to use that as actual collateral. The broker/bank wouldn't accept it. They want dollars.
What happened to precious metals?
They got put into my vaults, taken out for a canoe ride, and the rest is history.
Oh, you really mean, "What happened to the fake price of paper gold and silver?" Then that is different. Yes, people got their margin calls and sold whatever they had of value. It means people like me will BTFD on the phyzz, and really we'll get this boating thing right this time.
The elite in Davos are pushing it down as a warning that they control eveything. That is true but... when the sweater starts to unravel there is no stopping.
Just bought some more maples.
I really wish you people would learn the definiion of deflation so you would quite mis-applying it.
What happened to that endearing "...got their faces blowtorched off"?
Just bought my first golden ounce. on a side note, I am going boating this weekend...
Keep in mind that Option Expiry for Feb Gold kicks in on next Monday’s close. There's no relative comparable for the Silver this month. We saw how 1700 was defended with almost everything the Option Writers clearly had, as there were some 8375 Options at stake up at that level. The next big target where much of the cluster of Open Interest lies is around the strike prices of 1680 (2491 Options) and 1675 (4326 Options). It's little wonder the price of gold has been slammed below these levels to ensure all these Options Expire worthless.
This is just more market rigging exercise executed by the criminals running the CRIMEX.
I expect spot prices in gold/silver to head back up next week.
If I didn't know any better, I would peg you as Clive Maund's alter ego.
in the middle of december last year, the 150dma cross the 200dma upward. this could be the golden cross in the long term up trend.
also uup, us$ etf, last week the 150dma crossed the 200dma downward, which is the death cross. it could indicate us$ long term bearish.
the trend has been driven by production, which established a new peak in 2011.
Miners have gotten monkeyhammered, and they're indicating all is not well
For the last 4 years, gold has traded with equities. Now as stocks are hitting new highs, sheeple will dump their gold for equities over the next month or two. If enough news outlets tell us things are fine, the sheeple respond....until Summer hits. I am waiting for a big gold dump through Summer (maybe as low as $1200-$1300) and then its off to the races.
Once this last purge in metals is over, watch for gold to finally return to its inverse relationship with equities. The play right now is short gold/long equities, but by Summer it will flip to long gold/short equities.
I agree with Trav, of course I agreed with him when he said gold would go back to 600....oh wait not that was when he was known as Jonny Bravo or some other name..masterbates maybe...can't remember
Spot on Pegasus, good work
little turbo timhay ran that joint pissed off the germans on the way out the door. thats why they want thier stuff back
Perhaps investors are rotating into equities?
According to this chart, the rally still has legs:
http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/01/24/chart-stock-market-rallies-sinc...
Wait until Geico cancels the insurance policies of PM owners.
geez....i thought aapl was a proxy for the equity market. someone told me that over and over. wish that author would admit they were 100% dead wrong....and let down the facade they are perfect and holier than thou.
somebody need a hug??? Tylers propose things and they're not always right (immediately)...
Just BTFD!
BTFD or sit on your hands. 1970's all over again.
I'd rather BTFB (Buy the Fucking Bottom) than BTFD. Gold bars will be cheaper next month than this month, so why hurry. This is the fourth down month on the monthly charts, so we ovbviously are in a downtrend.
Since when can future trends be predicted by past performance? The fundamentals say you are wrong.
This is the fourth down month on the monthly charts, so we ovbviously are in a downtrend."
wonderful logic, why didn't i think of it?
It sounds like common sense, but plenty of idiots just don't get it. The guy above you didn't.
appreciate if you would name those four down months.
Just go to netdania.com and push up the monthly gold spot charts. Its not that hard dude.
how about this chart? http://www.gold.org/investment/statistics/gold_price_chart/
Well, it can only go down if it's been going down, right?
They may be cheaper next month, but there won't be inventory to buy.
AUMN AAU MUX
own the certificates also
do your own DD............EOM, GLW, BSX, BAT, SFF
If you can find a restaurant chain selling for less than 30X earnings, buy it
I am getting killed on FSM...
EXK
Nice charts... But I suspect this selling pressure has come from the same place it has the past several years... And the key was not AAPL on this latest of smack downs, but rather that gold and silver were about to move through resistance levels at 1700 and 32.50 respectively.
As a side note... Look who has just been appointed to chair the SEC... This entire thing would be hilarious if it were not for the fact that so many lives are being destroyed as a consequence... If anyone will be laughing it will be because they are still holding physical metal when the curtain comes crashing down.
Soon, I think...
Gold needing a Select Comfort mattress lately ? SCSS getting slammed lately as folks dont want numbered beds anymore. Having a bed and place to sleep may soon be a basic need ?
investors have been using their mattresses as collateral
admittedly, some might be rehypothecated http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vfs7T1aRvw
Obama’s skyrocketing electricity prices and (and everything else) means high cost of air pressure.
Long hay and burlap in the Obama/banker economy.
On second thought, I’ll just get the wife a bicycle pump and give her a whack on the butt when I need firmness.
I don't know about you, but for me it's usually firmness then I whack her on the butt.
Bazinga!
Using "paper" precious metals ...
Didn't you hear, there is a new element on the Periodic Table. Paper gold, the symbol is 'Ju'.
I thought the symbol was Bs
The "silver apples" of the moon...(Yeats)
Yup. I noticed that, too.
And posted that thought on a previous thread.
The sell-off in the metals can also be highly correlated to the House vote to suspend the debt ceiling. FYI.
Ah... Of course...Now I get it... Congress shows a complete lack of fiscal restraint... What could be more bearish for the metals?
Are you kidding??
Not really. I wear a little tinfoil. I think any circumstance which should show weakness for the country's finances/the dollar/the bond market is met by the President's Working Group on financial markets. Are you kidding?
That fiscal restraint sends them the singal that the government is willing to continue monetizing debt which is bullish for the stock market. People think a new rally is in the works, so they are cashing out of paper gold and silver to jump on the bandwagon. People who own physical aren't selling, not unless they are in financial trouble or they inherited it. It's not that they are bearish on gold, it's that they are bullish on equities. Anyone who owns paper PM's was never bulish to begin with. They just wanted to be out of cash. People appear to be dumping bonds as well, which explains interst rates rising.
Who needs apple when you can own a mining stock.
Newton would tell you that gravity works on both...
Mining pm stock prices are not contigent on consumer spending.
who needs mining stock when you can own your own claim?
you can't eat AAPL's.
Nah, bollocks, this is just the Gold Options expiry smackdown. Nothing new.
BTFD
We should always be thankful when they will take less of their paper Bernanke Bucks back for physical. PMs are the only true BTFD play out there.
Thanks Crapple longs, HP inkjets and all the other fiat fuckers!
Last chance to dance? Harvey Organ says the Swiss want theirs back from the Fed, too.
"He that sells what isn't his'n, must buy it back or go to pris'n."
Don't worry, op/ex is on Monday...
so what's the collateral for the leveraged longs in every other manic (and much more massively overvalued) stock that the algos and hedge funds are all over? e.g. AMZN, CRM, FB, LNKD, HD. These stocks are all up 20% or more in a little more than a month and keep going up every day. Where does it end and does it too somehow mean that cautious gold owners take as much of the pain as the criminal idiots fueling this rally?
Makes more sense than anything else I've read (nothing).
I was just the other day regretting not buying some Gold on the last dip down to $1,651.
Looks like it's time to buy some anti-AAPL (anti-FED, anti-Equity, anti-Risk Asset) GOLD.
the gold as collateral thesis may be correct, I'm more inclined to believe that the metals sense a rise in interest rates which increase carrying costs on an asset that pays nothing to offset that expense
The gold vs. AAPL correlation is as plain as the nose on your face. Hint: why is the USD not moving even as precious metals "fall"? And why is the "dash-for-trash" in stocks in full force again? - POMO
This exercise is the modern equivalent to executive order 1602 and will be deemed the largest transfer of wealth from the “have not” to the “have” in the history of humanity to date.
I don't disagree with your general premise as a possible interest rate respons, however....
Doesn't this last part sort of assume that the gold just sits around, that GAAP are used, and that such hard assets not used to further lever up? Rehypothecation?
Some other stuff that blows up with a rise in interest rates:
1. Fucking everything.
And it's not even real gold. It's a travesty these gamblers are allowed to play around with non-delivered precious metals "bets" and influence the "price"...
Fraud, deceit, government suppression, a corrupt banking cartel shorting naked. Need any other reasons?
Hey ,when you can get paid (-0.44%) for a one year lease rate on gold,well of coarse gold is going to get nailed. Today,ALL lease months are negative BIG TIME again for gold lease rates.
Ps....Fuck You Timmy and your ESF.
Criminal. fuck you.
As Blackrock and JPM look to get approval for their copper ETF's, isn't it worth considering, especially in JPM's case, if they can control the market position on PM's at will, why are people upset at moves like this, including expiry days?
I understand the disconnect between physical and paper, and the divergence of collateral in existence, but I think this can be played out indefinitely, short of a call for ALL collateral.
Isn't it possible that the few with large positions could kill the price at will?
Central banks liquidating gold reserves to raise cash to buy Apple to boost markets to boost perceptions to boost nominal growth to further boost perceptions to further boost markets?
master O slammed the evil oil speculators but not a word about the pm speculators, what a heaping pile of_____________
And now that the market has topped, and come back to 2008 levels, the ASSHOLES on the T.V. are saying:
"Now is the time to buy!"
"You'd be a fool to be in fixed income!"
"These mawkets are going nowhere but up!"
Jesus H. Christ.
Oh yeah, let me buy equities now, sure. Then I can have a generational loss AGAIN and take it in the ass AGAIN.
Let's say I left the money in for the past 5, 10, 15, 20 years.
I'm not "earning" money or "making" money because it is trappped in the casino!
If I take it out, I get taxed out the ass because I'm not half-dead yet, or as a reward for "investing" in the American Kleptoligarchy.
Most people are HELD HOSTAGE to Wall Street, the greatest Cabal of blood-sucking societal parasites in all of history!
So what's next? Only way now is up?
That right shoulder on the S&P is forming daily and should it break 4% or more below the neckline, watch out below! Two months tops before it all comes tumbling down IMO.
So what's that?... Like ~ The 'Robert Conrad Eveready Battery' formation?...
Dollar strength against the Yen isn't helping either.
Um ... maybe AAPL longs were leveraging their positions with AAPL stock.
That's generally how margin-for-sale-or-rent markets work.
AAPL is subject to AAPL margin call. Maybe producing 'goods' that don't do anything special but require components made around the world across 60 different countries isn't such a hot business plan.
One thing modern industrial enterprises are good at is making wasteful junk and pretending it's 'haute'.
WHAT HAPPENED?????
WHAT HAPPENED??????????????
come on man, ya'll know exactly what the fuck happened....
the phony paper doesnt matter any more period!!!!!
until its n triple digits im just gonna ignore it so i wont fucking go out and kill a fucking banker and miss out on the day Silver does exactly what it has been trying to do now for 4 years....
GO MUCH HIGHER!!!!!
FUCK YOU ALL CENTRAL BANKERS AND YOUR BANKER BRETHREN....
AND FUCK YOU ESPECIALLY BEN "IM A COCKSUCKER" BERNANKE....
have g nice day u guys..........
PS: send this out to loved ones and friends who understand where this is headed but get discouraged on days like today and weeks like this week...i view it cause it lifts my head and reminds me of our purpose...cheers all real money folks....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh-xQbfOoFI
+1 for rant
Cmon guys, this is obvious. Apple were gold-plating their iPhone 5s, and sales fell flat. Lots more gold in the market as a consequence.
Next, they are trying platinum, watch the price point there. It also has the added advantage of reducing iPhone emissions...
I just counted my stacks again this morning. Shiny as ever
In other news, American Eagles are sold tou from the US mint and the Canadian mint is rationing maples. Same old fukkin annoying charade.
also imminent options expiry, as well as the world on the verge of going full retard - I would think we have more than a little timely meddling going on as well.
rationing? i bought 10 slv maples and 1.5 gold maples last week...and still not shipped from silvergoldbull, hopefully shipped next week...wtf is going on??
Unrulian, The Mint apparently informed their primary dealers that they would be "allocating" maples in certain quantities to it's dealers. So things didn't dry up but apparently they are definitely tight. So of course the situation isn't depserate but this seems to show either a tight silver availablilty, OR a desire by the mints to simply limit their production. Either way it is telling.
You're locked in at least SBG will get you your metal. I picked up 20 trivium and 20 slave queen silver bullet silver shield coins from them today.
edit - let's not forget that junk silver has all but dried up and premiums have gone full retard.
Thanks....my local store has some junk...and a lot of pre64 dollars but no maples and no gold...i also picked up some slaves for fun.
no maples,
may I sugest some 100z NTR's
much more fun to stack
throw in some cushions from the couch and you can build a fort!
There's plenty of metal out there, except for the silver AE vehicle. I will say, the premium over spot for them is a bit ridiculous, right now.
Saying there is plenty og Ag out there in physical form is just an opinion unless you have at least a decent link to back that up.
Just go to APMEX and try putting random 100oz and 1oz bars, 2013 Maple Leafs, and junk bags in your cart. Plenty out there.
Tulving has plenty too.
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
NW Mint has 8 - 10 week delivery times. I ordered some SAEs in December and the estimated deliver date is mid-March.
as long as products such as SLV and GLD exist, this will be daily business. nothing to do with phys. but making the market in seconds going round.
The Dow bottom in March '09 was a 'once in a lifetime event' doncha know. It can't happen again for generations.
Bullshit. It crashed, but no lessons were learned. Fed printing like a runaway freight train has pumped it back to the levels it was prior to the crash.
But, what has changed? Banks are 'healed'? Bullshit. Economie's running on all cylinders? Negatory.
Since nobody learned from the first lesson, there's going to be another one, soon. After THIS crash, it truly will be generations before we see another one like it!
Armstrong bitchez, Armstrong!
Gold was supplanted as the smart money's geopolitical and fiat hedge.
ZH has been behind the curve for years regarding price movements of gold. Last good call ya'll made on gold was selling it after the Goldman kiss in Spring 2012.
smart money = those who have advance warning of flagrant, illegal manipulation?
This is a long game. All shorts must die!
I think this drop is a counter punch to the news about Germany's gold repatriation and the (yet to be credibly confirmed) report about the gold back yuan along with just the general growing awareness about PMs.
The pricing must be kept down for the following reason.--------
I still believe this is a program of supplying soverign nations the chance to buy gold in preparations for going to a (in part) PM backed three currency world.
The C.F.R. use to have a position paper on their web site about the need for a pan Asian, pan European and pan American currency.
And when it goes down, it will be largely digital.
Gold stocks act like gold is going back to $32 an ounce.... The machines have it all worked out, gold is Evil doers stuff.
I think they've succeeded in totally divorcing the price of gold and silver from supply and demand in the physical markets.
Yes there is the Casino gold and silver...a paper chip sort of....and the real gold and silver....a precious metal....the HFT´s play the paper chip market...so do the governments....just think if gold was $4,000 and ounce today....what would a central banker do....their fiat would be iffy
I reckon this rant was heard around the country the last day or two as all the rest of the people holding premium miner shares, howled about the beatdown for yet another "reason".
I don't buy this margin call explanation... If hedgefunds only sell gold and silver when they need to raise money to cover their margin calls, then the paper price of gold will be $10 in five years. I find it interesting that the day after HSBC buys an amount of physical silver, the price starts dropping again by a few percent.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-23/silver-bars-being-secured-hsbc-%E2%80%93-buys-876-million-worth-poland
This space is massively manipulated. My hard asset MLPs are crushing my precious metals investments over the last few months.
Just bought some CVRR at 24.98 to cash in on the crack spread, which should remain high this year. Carl Icahn and management hedged it wide for 2013 with this MLP that is guiding for around 20% distribution yield. When we start to have serious inflation, I expect the spread between WTI and Brent to widen even more as exploding costs of transportation force further dependence on local economies but this may be a few years off.
HUI has lead gold down..... Suspect HUI is being smashed to make gold shorts golden....
Is this why SLW (Silver Wheaton) is also down since Wednesday?
What happened? - "It don't mean nothing."...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGSWcO0OFsI
I don't know why everyone is hung up on owning physical PMs. I have over half of my portfolio invested in gold/silver/platinum ETFs and mining stocks and I see these as a safer and more liquid way to own PMs. I don't have to worry about storage, security or transport and if the market dictates, I can liquidate or buy at the click of a mouse.
Caracalla. The word "loser" comes to mind when i read your comment.
And the same theory was applied by all those savvy investors who held MFGlobal paper. Turns out they had a little trouble liquidating at the click of a mouse, because the cunts stole their fucking money.
Wake up man.
It seems gold is becoming less and less correlated to EURUSD, AUDUSD, (and even CNY and INR) and more correlated to USDJPY. As the FXY goes, so does GLD these days.... (looking at a 3 year rolling 60 day correlation observed in the last 6 months)
I'd like to make a 1,000 oz silver dildo and have it rammed up between Ben's pimply diseased, fiat-shit encrusted ass flaps.
It's sad that so much investing experience can't be put to better use. In this 'market' nothing makes sense because there is a program to smash PMs and keep them that way- down.
It will continue until the phyzz is gone and everyone knows it.
Who said "You can't tell who's swimming naked until the tide goes out?"
Until it runs out, this despicable game continues.
Maybe the AAPL collateral calls was the last straw that broke the camel's back. However, gold and silver weakness was technically visible since 12/20/2012 when the Dow theory flashed a primary bear market signal.
http://www.dowtheoryinvestment.com/2012/12/dow-theory-update-for-dec-20-...
Such weakness also infected the miners. Thus, on Jan 23, the Dow Theory signaled a primary bear market for the gold and silver miners ETF.
http://www.dowtheoryinvestment.com/2013/01/dow-theory-update-for-jan-24-...
Thus, AAPL collateral calls merely preyed upon something that was already weak. Weakness in gold and silver has been pervasive since October 4, 2012.
Got Gold?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321060186189?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p39...
Just sayin...
A lame, rotational shake out of the weak hands. PM investors really are pant-wetters sometimes.
Go dump your slave dollars into CUNTBOOK SHARES! or US TOILET PAPER BONDS!