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Chart Of The Day: Is The ECB Responsible For The Second Coming Of BitCoin?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

That precious metals are not the best friends of central banks, whose sole provenance is in creating, and lately massively diluting, faith-based fiat currency is no secret, especially not after the recent snafu involving the Bundesbank and its shocking gold repatriation announcement which came in direct refutation of its public statements just 2 months earlier about faith in the NY Fed this, and bashing of a "phantom debate" on the safety of gold reserves that. Yet it was not gold gold, silver or even tungsten that was the object of derision in an amusing paper released by the ECB in early November titled "Virtual Currency Schemes", which we profiled at the time, but rather the decentralized electronic currency BitCoin, which was supposed to highlight what, in the eyes of the Draghi-led Frankfurt institutions, is nothing but a Ponzi scheme.

Why the ECB suddenly felt threatened so much by Bitcoin, it felt an imperative to issue a 55 page paper decrying such electronic currencies we will never know. What we do know, however, courtesy of a reminder by Bloomberg's Max Raskin, is that since the publication of said paper, the value of Bitcoin as tracked by the Mtgox exchange, has soared some 40% in just under three months, from a "fiat equivalent value" of $13 to a most recent closing price of $18.50, and has doubled in the past 12 months alone.

So one wonders: after soaring to an all time high of $30 before crashing concurrent with the epic May 1, 2011 takedown of silver, was none other than the European Central Bank responsible for the recent second coming of BitCoin which is now slowly but surely creeping back to its all time highs, and what happens to all alternative "virtual" currencies once BitCoin returns to all time highs: will the Fed, the ECB, and the BIS have their hands full with pushing gold lower to care too much about this electronic currency, or will their attention then be diverted away from the daily precious metals smackdown to focus on this threat that at least in Europe is so large, the ECB itself had to chime in?

More from Bloomberg:

The CHART OF THE DAY shows that bitcoin has more than doubled in the past 12 months, strengthening to $16.37 from $5.88, according to data from Mt. Gox, the world’s largest bitcoin exchange. The money, issued by a decentralized network of computers, has recovered after falling to $2.14 in November 2011 from a high of $29.58 five months earlier.

 

Greater demand for virtual currencies could have a negative impact on the reputation of central banks, according to a report published by the European Central Bank in October last year. Since the report was released, bitcoin has risen more than 55 percent against the dollar and use of the currency has surged.

 

Bitpay Inc., a bitcoin payment processing company that recently raised $510,000 in an investment round, this month announced that the number of companies using its services has increased almost 50 percent to more than 2,000 since November, when blog management firm WordPress.com said it would accept the digital currency.

 

I think the ECB obviously is concerned, and it’s not reputational,” said Steve Hanke, a professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore who helped to establish new currency regimes in countries such as Argentina and Bulgaria. “I think it’s a competitive threat. Maybe virtual currencies will be so convenient that they will pose a threat because of their ease of use.”

And as a reminder, for pure comedy value, here is the ECB, again, defining what a Ponzi scheme is without referencing itself even once:

A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity

Listen to the ECB: if nothing, it certainly is an expert on the topic of Ponzi schemes.

 

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Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:17 | 3192416 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

a generational bottom bitchez [/sarc.]

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:21 | 3192429 Future Tense
Future Tense's picture

Robert Prechter over at Elliott Wave called the start in this bitcoin market before anyone. As the debt markets begin to implode across the world, more and more people are going to begin using alternative currencies. The following is an excellent walk through of the coming bond bubble implosion:

http://www.ftense.com/2013/01/2013-outlook-part-1-introduction.html

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:26 | 3192453 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

WARNING: Bitcoin is a SCAM. Bitcoin is an idiotic experiment which proves that a non-centrally planned currency is simply unfeasible. Bitcoin is highly corruptible as it is 100% computerized, unregulated and unmanaged. What if somebody cracks the code to your wallet? What if the code breaks? Libertardians never consider intricate details like this because they are too simplistic. The libertarian dream of perfectly functioning ‘free markets’ is a ridiculous fantasy. The only way to ensure peace and happiness is to delegate responsibility to democratically elected politicians with the skills, experience and education to manage complex social and economic issues.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:34 | 3192488 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Much better with a strongly regulated system, such as the one gently guided by the SEC and CFTC.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:05 | 3192595 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“100% computerized, unregulated and unmanaged”.

They need someone like Bart Chilton looking into things.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:59 | 3192745 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

MDB for president...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:21 | 3193178 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

@MillionDollarTrollBus

BitCoin is not un-regulated. It is a-regulated. "a" means "not" in Latin in case you were wondering. I know this may seem confusing, but it's along the lines of immoral vs. amoral. Corporations are amoral. They can't be good or bad, although immoral human beings will use that to their advantage.

There is no need to regulate or manage something that can't be regulated or managed. The protocol has a predictable and publicly available algorithm for deflation built in for stability purposes.

I realize that I shouldn't feed you, and that you know all of this, but for the sake of the AI out there I don't want them to be mislead.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:23 | 3193192 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture
To the peoples of ZeroHedgeTown:
  • BITCOIN is a landgrab, ECB report or not, it will grow to unbelievable highs.
  • if 1000 people want to buy all this year's production of bitcoin, all of it, they will only have 1,314 bitcoin.
  • 21M bitcoin divided by 5B above ground oz of gold = 238 ounces of gold per bitcoin (Scarcity way higher than gold)
  • Each bitcoin is divisible to 100,000,000 satoshi cents
  • There are TWO LAYERS of cryptography, both of which are unbreakable:  The public address AND the hash of the public address.  There is no energy in the universe to break these codes.
  • You can cross borders with whatever amount you want, nobody knows.
  • You can create a "Brainwallet", something only you know, and DELETE all bitcoin software from your machine, and they'll be safe.  As long as you remember your "Brainwallet".  
  • For each new Bitcoin created, the Fed alone is printing new $800,000.00, and given the currency wars, everyone is on the printing boat full speed ahead.
  • The Japanese are mostly savers; the biggest exchange is in Japan, Kyle Bass is warning us that Japan will suffer from chronic inflation, the Japanese do NOT like inflationary currencies.  Do the math.
  • The Germans in Berlin accept bitcoin in bars, restaurants, and whatever else you can think of.
  • Bitcoin competes with off-shore accounts, numbered swiss accounts, gold & silver, HSBC money laundering, etc.
  • Gold can be Corzined by a tyrant-with-a-kill-list; bitcoin can't.
  • Bitcoin is about TRUSTING NOBODY.  NO ONE SHOULD BE TRUSTED.  The source code is there in the open.
  • Bitcoin is by far the strongest currency in the globe, not subject to the whims of these cocksucking communists.
  • Bitcoin is THE ONLY HONEST INTERNATIONAL BANKING SYSTEM we have today.

 

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:36 | 3193217 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Sure, until ByteCoin or MegaCoin come out with a superior algorithm. Then everybody will be scrambling to sell their BitCoins for the next big wave.

I like BitCoin infinitely better than fiat currency from a fundamental standpoint, but if you don't have electricity and Internet access you can't use it.

Maybe one day in the future there will be enough competing electronic currencies that a baseline will be achievable, but things are still in their relative infancy.

Another thing to bear in mind is that digital currency opens the door for RFID implant enabled banking. This could happen with digital fiat just as easily as with BitCoin though.

Gold and silver are what you will need when faith in paper is lost, and will be the only way out of the Tron mainframe.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:58 | 3193308 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

The block chain has split, and created competing crypto currencies. 

This is a built in feature of the bitcoin network, which allows itself to be amended via democractic, cryptographic votes.

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:07 | 3193329 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

First, study.  Then, comment.  Ok?  

 

There are lots of "alt coins", "alt chains", "scamcoins" out there.  Nobody gives a flying fuck and everyone stays with bitcoin.  Google "network effect".

But I'll tell you one thing: IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT'S BETTER THAN BITCOIN IN CRUCIAL ASPECTS, I WILL BUY IT. I won't sell any bitcoin, but I'll put ten grand in your idea.  If you can preserve the properties of bitcoin and enhance something that nobody has thought of, I WILL BUY IT, because you have a genius idea in your hands and I want some part of that.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:26 | 3193372 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I think what he was saying was that the alt coins/chains must prove viability, sort of like a darwinian principle of sound monies, only the strong survive. That being said I can't wait till I purchase my first 400' Yacht when my Butterfly ASIC arrives! ( TEE HEE )

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 03:00 | 3194149 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Yes, the one thing that can crash the bitcoin market is a breakthrough in mining algorithms/hardware.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:59 | 3197121 labestiol
labestiol's picture

Nope, the bitcoin protocol is made to self-adjust to increased computational power, so that the issuance of bitcoin will always follow this serie.

In fact such breakthoughs already happened, people first used CPUs, then GPUs, then FPGAs, and soon ASICs should come. It'll not disturb the issuance, just increase the security.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:12 | 3193479 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Half_A_Billion_...

Uhhh... don't forget, that "Google network effect" used to be...

a "Yahoo network effect"... and before that... an "Altavista network effect."

The only SURE thing in life is change!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:41 | 3193949 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

It's called gold 'n' silver, bitchez.

My own GPG signature backed by my own gold and silver coins and bars known to those I associate with who also have assets of similar value is of higher value than any bitcoin. Even higher value is me in person holding such a coin or bar for trade on the spot.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:36 | 3192494 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

Well known shill MDB is against it. 

That means it must be good. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:52 | 3192718 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

What is the definition of satire?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:39 | 3192510 hazek
hazek's picture

Yeah people!!!11 An open source project that anyone can see exactly how it works and what it does that isn't controled by anyone is a SCAM! Just keep using your fiat money, it served us well so far!!11 And don't even dare to think about buying gold or silver...

 

 

/rolleyes

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:38 | 3192694 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Hazek in case you didn't know MDB is an anti-troll troll.  Take everything posted by him/her as sarc.  MDBs comments are said with eyes rolling.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:51 | 3192921 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

MDB is Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and Eddie Murphy all rolled into one.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:40 | 3192516 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

With an endorsement like this from MDB, Bitcoin sounds like something to look into! Thanks for your help MDB!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:49 | 3193072 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Consider this: MDB comes out against Bitcoin, people say is sarc and think bitcoin is good...

MDB knows this and in true troll fashion gets people chasing Bitcoin which is bad. The double negative.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:49 | 3192540 TheGermanGuy
TheGermanGuy's picture

Don´t ever downarrow MDB. It proves that you have no sence of irony.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:23 | 3192825 Bob
Bob's picture

Now that's doubling down on irony. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:02 | 3192752 billsykes
billsykes's picture

Simply put, which no one can answer is "who started this?"

(hint probably the guys that wrote the software- as the single paper about bitcoin authored in fake name, published on a news group didn't talk about the actual math behind this)

I think that everyone wants to believe so badly in something that they overlook actual facts and start wanting it to be true (bitcoin). Lots of people can make stocks go up or down.

 

But if it was revealed that the bitcoin creator was born from a virgin and led people with his teachings then was killed and was magically resurrected (not zombie) then that's a story I would believe.

 

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:27 | 3192843 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Define iron: Anonymous web poster, on an anonymous website, knocking a currency for the author remaining anonymous.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:29 | 3192848 labestiol
labestiol's picture

Best answer would be "Who Cares ?"

This is open-source. Every line of code has been reviewed and understood. Other implementations were made.

We will probably never know who satoshi is (or who the group of people known as satoshi are). Sure thing is he/they did an amazing work.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:15 | 3192977 jayman21
jayman21's picture

Ben is down arrowing again.  Fuck you Ben.  Bitcoin is going to replace that burning feeling you have in your ass from the &^%$ers.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:29 | 3193216 seek
seek's picture

"Satoshi Nakamoto" is japanese for "John Galt."

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:28 | 3192847 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Statists will always tell you what they fear.  Thanks, MDB.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:36 | 3192871 osmosis
osmosis's picture

"What if somebody cracks the code to your wallet?"  

Was this not the same argument people used to use for why you should never use your credit card over the internet?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:20 | 3192989 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I have developed  another form of money if anyone is interested.

Everyone, I'd like to introduce ShitCoin

Anyone can produce it and mold it into coin shaped objects.  All one needs to do is eat, wait about 8-10 hours, and voila!!!

Just grab some, flatten it out, and cut into a disc shaped object of any size.  You may want to wait a while before flattening depending upon what you ate.  Once the coin has hardened, you've got a ShitCoin™.

Each ShitCoin has a unique DNA and this makes it one of the most trusted forms of payment by vendors around the world.

I'm selling ShitCoin's if anyone is interested and I will accept US Dollars or any other fiat currency.  $10 US for a 3 lbs bag plus $5 for shipping and handling.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:28 | 3193213 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Lots of people are doing just that.  Google "scamcoin".  Then google "Network effect".  

 

1usd  = 0.05 bitcoin.  

 

Prepare for more zeros.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:27 | 3193911 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I'm prepared to see bitcoin valuations hit 0's completely left to right.

Same for Federal Reserve notes.

Gold and silver are money, bitcoin is for suckers & FRN's are for slaves.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:19 | 3193518 Reformed Sheep
Reformed Sheep's picture

$5 for shitting and handling. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:12 | 3193139 trentusa
trentusa's picture

hey million dollar jackass, the best hackers in the world have tried to hack bitcoin in a open worldwide peer review for several years now, and the best have all tried and failed. Besides, how would a fascist like u know if a free market functions or not since we have never had one in this country? The myth of the darwinianism of a free market only works if inventions such as Tesla's free energy devices were not prevented from reaching the marketplace, & TB2F companies are allowed to fail. The idea of finding peace or happiness by delegating the responsibility to a corrupt politician is unamerican and dumb.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:24 | 3193904 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Jesus fuck, you got sucked in. The best bitcoin hackers set up exchanges, collected tons of bitcoins then traded them out for currency while collapsing the exchange itself because "the exchange was hacked". Idiots.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:57 | 3193310 q99x2
q99x2's picture

MD Bone US, please ask your congress person before speaking.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:20 | 3193889 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Ah, you tricky fucker. Bitcoin is a scam but for none of the reasons you mentioned. NO matter what, always red arrow.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:27 | 3193206 awaken
awaken's picture

Schumpeter's creative destruction is at work....woohoo!!!

 

Competeting currencies from the past to the future:

Gold

Silver

Bitcoin

RIPPLE (Bitcoin 2.0)

http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/internet/ripple-credit-system-could-hel...

http://www.americanbanker.com/issues/177_235/disruptor-chris-larsen-retu...

 

Toilet paper of the future:

All fiat currencies

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 04:24 | 3194196 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Perfect for con-artists and "social engineers", experts at gaining confidence from unsuspecting parties, specially overconfident patsies (and their trust network).

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 04:33 | 3194200 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

In fact, it mimics banking system perfectly: a con-artist/"social engineer" (bank) cons a network of trusting patsies (bank customers) into lending them money... and then you're both broke and indebted to cover for the fraud, as we know.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:17 | 3192419 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Bitcoin is actually a money printers best friend...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:21 | 3192434 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@francis_sawyer

Prepare for the bitdefenders!  If it can be created and it can be traded, then it will be manipulated.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:25 | 3192446 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Nobody is bailing out bitcoin counterparties, as the counterparties are nebulous at best.

 

Manipulation, now that's just a matter of perspective. 

 

We've already has a 'London Whale' incident w/ Bitcoin. And numerous other blowups. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:24 | 3192447 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

@Cursive

~~~

Oh I'm hunkered down alright [waiting for the assault]... It's just like the religious fanatics out there... 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:25 | 3192452 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Provide one contention that bitcoin is a fiat-squirters dream, and I'll do my best to attack it. 

 

You make a sweeping claim, but back it up with no logic, facts, rumors, opinions or anything. 

 

Your not even a strawman.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:37 | 3192460 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Look ~ I'll be clear here... In order for something to WORK in this world, it has to be UNCOMPLICATED... Forget about the technological infrastructure & 'non'-ubiquitous aspects for a moment [in a SO CALLED 'Global Economy']... People simply don't UNDERSTAND IT... [as proof: if an instant poll were to be taken right now ~ more people would probably have FAITH in the MSM or GOVERNMENT than they would to put all their net worth in a Bitcoin basket]...

~~~

Do a little reverse engineering... People don't even fucking understand FIAT PAPER MONEY [as we speak], but they're supposed to understand BITCOIN overnight?... Pffft!

The REASON I say it's a 'money printers best friend' is that if a competing system arises [then falters due to complications, or a myriad of other reasons], then people will RUN AWAY from it faster than they gravitated to it in the first place...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:39 | 3192498 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Bullshit.

Knowledge is absorbed gradually. Do you really think people grasped the significance of a "piece of paper" over actual gold coins first time they came into existence?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:41 | 3192515 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

People didn't GRAVITATE towards paper... They were FORCED to turn in their gold & comply...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:44 | 3192530 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

They were initially by goldsmiths offered the option of using notes, which could at any time be reclaimed in gold. These turned out to be a lot easier to deal with, both weight wise, and nomination wise. So people gradually started using them for trading, rather than using the gold itself.

Goldsmiths then, in turn, started running fractional reserve schemes, some of which predictably blew up.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:14 | 3192625 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

& of course nothing like that will EVER happen with Bitcoin...

~~~

Jesus Flippin Christ ~ Half the 'preppers' in the world [not to call myself one] would warn you about a GRID FAILURE...

Oh no Mr. farmer sir... I SWEAR ~ I'm like 'Warren Buffet' here if I could only power up my laptop... Let me borrow your tractor, a goat, & a couple of chickens...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:18 | 3192642 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

You chicken littles sound like prisoners hoping for an earthquake to bring down the walls.

The internet is so redundant, so pervasive, so ubiquitious, I would imagine it would outlast every organism, except for some seed vaults or something.

Besides, even if the human race went extinct, and the internet failed, the microwaves containing legacy, or the most up to date blockchain, would scatter the universe. Eventually being interpreted by some alien intelligence and understood for its novelty and value. 

Thereafter, cue the intergalactic bailouts, which will be denominated in, none other than, bitcoin. (difficult transporting gold lightyears)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:32 | 3192681 adr
adr's picture

If one central server at Carnegie Mellon goes down, it will take down most internet access for half the USA. Not to mention the DNS being compromised which could take down the entire thing.

The DNS system is the switchboard for the internet. It doesn't matter if you have power and a connection if you can't access the address.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:40 | 3192698 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Edit: Double post.

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:22 | 3192824 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

What? A DNS failure wouldn't take down the internet, it would just mean we'd all have to use "sensical" IP addressing, such as "173.194.66.106" rather than "www.google.com".

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:52 | 3193084 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Something tells me this has "Greater Fool Theory" written all over it.

Will someone buy my imaginary coin for $19 that i bought for $18?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:32 | 3193229 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

In May this year, I will buy any quantity of bitcoin you want to sell for $19.  Bitcoin will surpass the silver price this year.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:02 | 3193320 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

We may have just witnessed the birth of Bitcoin futures trading via ZH comment boards. 

@Half how much are you selling this Bitcoin insurance for?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 01:20 | 3194035 Haole
Haole's picture

Damn...

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 01:24 | 3194040 Haole
Haole's picture

Hell, I just bought some more for CAD$19 today...

You're one of the people that helped me take the plunge into BTC so I'm either going to thank you or blame you.  ;)

It has been very interesting so far.

 

For some reason my replies are not being placed properly on the page, I didn't just reply to myself or JimRogers but to Half_A_Billion_...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:31 | 3193391 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Yeah maybe in 1987, but this is 2013 dude. Remember folks don't ftp to nic.ddn.mil to download hosts anymore rofl.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 04:40 | 3194202 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Internet used to be redundant (was the main architectural goal), but not any more - it's precisely the opposite of it, right now, and publicly so.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:24 | 3192668 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Oh yeah because if the collapse truly comes you are totally shielded from the fallout.

Whatever.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:26 | 3192672 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Bitcoin isn't subject to "grid failure" because they are stored on the blockchain, which is a file that's on peoples' hard drives.  Even if the power goes out, the data on your hard drive is still there.  Eventually when the power is restored, it'll spring back into use.  Gold and silver are nice ways to store money (even though they can be confiscated at gunpoint by government) but Bitcoin is better for everyday transactions.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:51 | 3192721 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It's a good thing that computers and drives can't be confiscated.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:55 | 3192737 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

yeah, nor can power lines or internet connections disrupted.  

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:43 | 3192891 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

nor can Carrington Effects occur

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:34 | 3193238 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

 

What you all don't seem to realize is that bitcoin is the only currency accepted in certain online markets which specialize in difficult to obtain commodities that can't be gotten any other way, short of dealing in back alleys with dangerous characters. Ergo, bitcoin's value is more than academic--but it's a currency, not an asset.

All aboard the Agorism train...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:05 | 3192759 billsykes
billsykes's picture

No actually it will not. Internet down= bitcoin down.

firewall your bitcoin app for a week- then open it, see it try and sync up the wallet- doesn't work.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:09 | 3192928 labestiol
labestiol's picture

firewall your bitcoin app for a week- then open it, see it try and sync up the wallet- doesn't work.

Care to explain why, or give some source ? Just curious... Yeah, that's what I thought. Just good ol' bullshit

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:43 | 3192526 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Actually, yes. Because the original gold certificates were directly exchangeable for a fixed quantity of physical gold upon demand.

Unfortunately, bitcoins, just like federal reserve notes, are not...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:51 | 3192548 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

...unlike modern fiat currency?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:34 | 3192687 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Anytime something is "exchangeable", it's just a coupon.  So you're relying on the goodwill of the guy who promises to exchange it for you.  And we all know humans are fallible and break their promises.

 

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything.  Just like gold isn't backed by anything.  There's no counterparty risk.  And that's precisely what makes it valuable.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:47 | 3192709 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "And that's precisely what makes it valuable"

~~~

Quick!... Offer me some BICOINS for an AGE, or a 55 gallon drum of wheat... I'll be back to you with my reply... [do you know what WHEAT is?... It's in those 'hotpockets' you're eating along with the 'meat flavored food filler']...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:39 | 3192507 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Bitcoin is beautifully, elegantly simple.

The original whitepaper is only 9 pages. 

The entire block chain is one giant ledger.

The coding is open-source, and anyone can change any aspect they want. 

Just b/c you don't understand something, something so simple an 8 year old does, doen't mean the subject at hand is incomprehensible. 

User error.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:45 | 3192533 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

@Jim Rogers

~~~

Alright fine... I've made the CORE of my argument... I'll punctuate it with this:

WHEN, it appears, that the present BANKING CARTEL starts to get 'the willies' about BITCOIN [& take steps], then, perhaps, I'll start taking it seriously... IMHO ~ it's not even a fly to swat [in their minds] at the moment... Yet it appears that QUITE A BIT of attention is paid to manipulating gold & silver... The prosecution rests...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:50 | 3192547 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

What makes you think you would know the machinations behind bitcoin?

If there was a conspiracy to suppress the bitcoin price, do you think that it would be covered on Zero Hedge? Or anywhere else for that matter?

If this cutting edge, fringe, contrarian website missed the initial train out the station on bitcoin, how would you, a sheepish denizen of said website, figure it out?

If the only things you hold dear are things that are despised by your enemies, no amount of gold, bullets, canned food, silver rounds, arable farmland and guarddogs will make you comfortable or happy, only the hatred of your enemy would suffice.

And btw, your enemy, they don't care about you at all, you are nothing to them.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:09 | 3192605 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 If there was a conspiracy to suppress the bitcoin price, do you think that it would be covered on Zero Hedge?

Here you are talking about 'PRICE'... 'Price' denominated in what?... On the other thread I talked about getting milk at Aldi & getting hay & cow manure from a local dairy farmer... Not one of them could tell you WTF Bitcoin is...

~~~

If the only things you hold dear are things that are despised by your enemies, no amount of gold, bullets, canned food, silver rounds, arable farmland and guarddogs will make you comfortable or happy

On the contrary... JPM prolly HATES that I have food... I'm sure they could give a FF whether or not I have any Bitcoins...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:20 | 3192647 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

So along with theoritcal cryptography, macroeconomics and precious metals, you also don't understand English? 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:40 | 3192700 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

guess not... & just think ~ I'm the ONLY one in the group you're speaking to [not talkin' about ZH'ers] who has ever heard of Bitcoin...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:57 | 3192740 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

I think it will grow in popularity.  Just wait until Cheech and Chong figure out how to use it... ;-)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:53 | 3192550 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

That's a totally different argument, and also one which is orders of magnitude more difficult for them as they don't control the reserves when it comes to bitcoins.

If they were to do anything, they'd try to outlaw it.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 11:36 | 3194893 e-recep
e-recep's picture

... which would annihilate bitcoin altogether.

on the other hand any government enforced gold confiscation lasted a year at most, mostly 5 or 6 months. after that, gold was free again. in such a situation the gold owner has to be patient. he or she has to become a snake and wait.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:58 | 3192567 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

It's perfect, really. They limited the total amount that will ever be issued. They base the amount available on "work", just like gold mining requires work to get the shiny stuff out of the ground (with Bitcoin the work is computational problems that must be solved before miners receive coins). Yes there's an arms race to get bigger processors to mine more, but as more is mined the computational problems get harder. They will never be more than halfway to mining all remaining Bitcoins.

The risk points from a regulatory and usage point of view are the exchanges, where you can exchange Bitcoins for fiat. The regulators could shut these all down. But already they are coming up with debit cards from major banks; escrow services (guaranteeing delivery/payment of any item purchased). Some VC money is already chasing the arbitrage opportunities on these exchanges.

There was even a stock market of Bitcoin miners and other providers, but that has shut down.

For now, fun to speculate. Don't bother trying to be a miner unless you have 60 graphics cards on one machine with ASIC (application-specific integrated circuit: chips designed solely to run as Bitcoin miners) and a really nearby source of very cheap electricity.

VERY good for sending money outside the SWIFT cartel, lower fees and good privacy, especially if you use a Tor browser etc.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:59 | 3192577 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

ASICs have been rumoured to be just around the corner for a while. Not saying they're not, but beware - Bytterflylabs, for instance, is almost certainly a scam.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:16 | 3192635 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Check yourself in to 'GEEKS ANONYMOUS' asap... I hear they're giving out free soup, a cot & a blanket... No BITCOINS required...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:23 | 3192664 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

What are you, 5?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:51 | 3193289 seek
seek's picture

Butterfly labs is one of the only ASIC companies that's delivered real hardware before (the FGA units.)

In any case we'll know within a month or so if they're real or not, along with Avalon, now that bASIC has bit the dust.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 04:58 | 3194212 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Wait until BTC finally makes and then NSA, GS, etc. puts their petaflops to "good" use and hijack it for their own benefit, just like with fiat.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:32 | 3192637 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

I admit to knowing ~0~ about bitcoin, as far as manipulation, whilst downloading God knows what to utilize something on my PC i inadvertantly downloaded this fucking "bitcoin Miner" program.. I'ts beyond even Kaspersky to rid me of it. I can quarantine it, but every few days it rears its ugly infected head.

Stupid fucking computer generated money, (sounds familiar) yeah that will solve our woes... 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:40 | 3192699 labestiol
labestiol's picture

Yeah, downloading a program which promises you free money is probably not the brightest idea...

If one day you want a real bitcoin client, here's where you should go (sorry, no free money)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:55 | 3192738 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Please..

Nothing to do with "free money"

And certainly nothing to do with "bitcoin" either, I thought i mentioned I no nothing about it.

It looks to have resided in my IE folder, some stupid add on is my guess..

Point is they were "mining" my PC, sounds suspiciouly like "counterfiieting" to me.

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:13 | 3192787 labestiol
labestiol's picture

Ok, my bad. You probably shouldn't use IE, Firefox or Chrome are safer options.

As for "counterfeiting", it's not. They were simply using your computer to secure the bitcoin network, and they were rewarded according to the bitcoin protocol for that service.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:34 | 3194229 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Hey, I could teach you how to mine for info, for a XdollarX coin (bit, gold, silver, your choice) :P

edit: apparently, the strike through option has either been coded by a politician or a regulator... :P

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:20 | 3192432 Orange Pekoe
Orange Pekoe's picture

Competing currencies for the win.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:23 | 3192439 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

I, for one, would gladly donate to ZeroHedge if they made a public hash available. 

 

It's clear ZH missed the boat on Bitcoin, despite many of us pointing out the advantages over fiat, and even PMs.

 

Bitcoin will trade for quintuple digits before gold does.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:26 | 3192455 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Bitcoin will trade for quintuple digits before gold does."

---------------------------------------

Yes, and it will have the same purchasing power as any other fiat.  -  "winning"

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:35 | 3192489 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

For something to be Fiat, it would need some authority dictacting it's value. Who's the authority, preytell?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:39 | 3192502 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

The invisible hand of the free market. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:41 | 3192517 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

There's clozapine for that...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:46 | 3192536 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I prefer Alprazolam; mmmmm...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:46 | 3192527 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Preytell who's the authority that mandate's it's value?

When fraud is the status quo, possession is the law.  

BTW, those fiats have something bitcoin doesn't...

Wake us when bitcoin has a military behind it, like

those fiats.  What a douche.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:54 | 3192553 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Bitcoin has an army behind it.

 

We are legion.

Expect us.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:40 | 3192696 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ha!  Yeah, okay, we'll keep a lookout for that army of computer hacks.  Get out of the basement kid.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:48 | 3192710 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

You don't understand crowd sourcing, or decentralized activism. 

I may be in a basement or quixotic, but it would only take one script kiddy, accessing the right database, to bring this entire thing down.

So before you brush off the basement dwellers, remember, turkeys don't fear butchers, but Thanksgiving comes anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWVxI6XZAuE

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:05 | 3192746 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I think you are a bit confused about who typically wields an ax day in and day out (it isn't a basement dweller, think lumberjack, you know, people who go out in the real world and actually do some real work).

Nice try turkey, but for most folks, they really don't give a shit if "this whole thing goes down".  Oh no, he's got a "script" what will we ever do?  LMFAO!!! Again, get out of the basement, learn a real trade, you are gonna need it.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:34 | 3192866 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Someone knocking bitcoin would use ad hominem attack. 

The face of the modern lumberjack:

http://trade.e-to-china.com/product-P13CB3/Automatic_Log_Saw_Cutting_Mac...

Brought to you by a hacker (albeit a chinese one).

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:47 | 3192906 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You fail to address any of the points I have made (typical of a Chinese sheep who do whatever the party tells them). Bitcoin hasn't been around that long and has already seen a major collapse in it's purchasing power. Gold has been a safe store of value for 6,000 years. Until you can address the serious question of trust and how it is insured, you have nothing.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:52 | 3193082 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I thought all the Bitcoiners just hacked the DOJ mainframe over the weekend & were supposed to do something dastardly today...

Musta run out of tokens...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:59 | 3192943 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Well, since you mention a bitcoin army, now would be a good time to regurgitate some of my bitcoin/Project Mayhem manifesto from two years ago.  Bitcoin is less corrupt than paper and easier to spend long-distance than PMs.  These conditions will persist for the forseeable future, so bitcoin has huge potential upside.  If it becomes a major currency then the next Rothschilds might be anarchists who can sling massive wealth anywhere in the world.  Think of the possibilities!

--------------------------------------------------------

...there are probably hordes of crypto-anarchist geeks out there who will ultimately be worth billions of clownbux.  The ones closest to the nerve center will be the richest and they will also hate the system the most.

Now, imagine what will happen after the inevitable hyperinflation, food riots and brutal crackdown.  The government will have lost all legitimacy in the eyes of the people, and everyone will be looking around to see who throws the first Molotov.  Enter BitCoin.  It's just a matter of time until someone posts a YouTube video of a flaming cop car while holding a poster of their BitCoin address.  Only shutting down the internet will stop the distributed anarchist horde from donating.  Word will spread.  Crimminals will target the powerful instead of the middle class.  Eventually the going rate might be .01 BTC per flaming cop car, .1 BTC per flaming cop, 1 BTC per flaming federal building, 100 BTC for a Rothschild dosed with scopolamine and mindfucked into spilling all his dark secrets before he is eaten alive by maggots.  Even this would only be a drop in the horde's ocean of buying power.  I think we are going to have a lot of cypherpunks living in Dubai penthouses surrounded by hookers but wanking to the increasingly creative homebrew snuff porn they finance.  Their combined mayhem fund might even exceed the Rothschilds' mayhem fund...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:38 | 3193253 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

Check out "Assassination Politics".  Just check it out.....

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:47 | 3193566 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Interesting, thanks.  Hadn't heard of this until now.  Glad I'm not the first to think along such lines, because things didn't work out so well for Jim Bell.  There are already bitcoin gambling sites; wonder how long until there are bitcoin "dead pools" which pool coins from millions of disgruntled citizens? 

Guess they better get to work reforming the paper system to make it competitive (lol) or they might lose more than their gravy train.  "It has been argued that the feasibility of an assassination market precludes the acceptance by governments of any form of anonymous electronic money".

Methinks the world will soon be purified by fire...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:55 | 3193302 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

Bitcoin and certain anonymous markets are harbingers of death for all things fiat.

The [as yet] bloodless insurrection is gaining momentum, right now--silently.

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." -entropic equilibrium

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:31 | 3192470 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Some people also missed the tulipmania but were probably relieved they did once it blew up in everyone's face.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:59 | 3196449 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

I'm sure most people are relieved when they miss your posts.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:43 | 3194236 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Ever heard of the MacOS? It used to be the securest OS on Earth... or so they said. Do you think any ASIC array by some (gifted) enthusiasts will stand a chance against  supercomputer arrays coded by top mathematicians/signal analysts with unlimited founding? If/once it becomes for real, big boys will get on it and either seize control or take it down.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:01 | 3196455 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

The bitcoin network is already more powerful than the top distributed computing efforts. Of course, if you had bothered to do any reading and comprehend the words within, you'd already know that.

The best thing about bitcoin is it takes intelligence to understand. It is an excellent litmus test for weeding out those that don't have critical thinking skills or general logic abilities.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:46 | 3197676 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

lol every algorithm is flawed - it may work as it was meant to until one is found, then, it all crumbles

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:20 | 3202939 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

And when that day arrives, and the encryption algorithms fail - how fast do you think your bank, which uses the same ones, will change over to another?

It would take them much longer than the bitcoin network, I can tell you that.

Keep plugging all those myths though, its amusing to crush them underfoot. Try not to use the "what if the global internet EXPLODES" one, that gets used all the time :)

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:23 | 3192445 Glass Seagull
Glass Seagull's picture

 

 

Looks like demand for drugs is strong.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:02 | 3196462 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Looks like someone's assumptions are broad. Its okay, bitcoin will still be around when you finally get yourself together.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:28 | 3192459 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Anyone who thinks that wealth can be stored electronically is deluded and will pay the price when computer and phone systems crash.

I would not be surprised if Bitcoin has been infiltrated and now being run by the FED.

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:34 | 3192484 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

This guy understands cryptology.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:43 | 3192528 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Cryptology will not save you if computer systems go down or are heavily controlled at some future time. Whilst the idea behind BitCoin may be noble in the face of central bank lunacy, it nevertheless lacks the fundamentals of what constitutes money.

Please do tell me what Bit Coin is backed by in hard assets.

Finally, one man's meat is another man's poison, so if there are people for whom BitCoin is functioning well, then let them use it. I am not against people transacting on any basis they both feel comfortable and secure with.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:05 | 3192598 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Computer systems go down in the present day.

 

Networks are heavily controlled RIGHT NOW. 

 

Bitcoin hasn't had an outage yet. 

 

Even google, amazon, etc. have had outages. P2P networks are robust AND antifragile. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:42 | 3193262 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

These morons are assuming that the USA can control bitcoin.  If/when it tries to, the attention that will call will be front-page news on techmeme and everywhere.  Then perhaps Vladimir Putin will put the Russian central bank to buy 100,000 bitcoin; if only to piss of the USSA.  What's the Kenian gonna do then?  Face the nukes?  

 

Putin has the resources on his hand, he doesn't need the taxation so much.  And he's embracing those that are going Galt--which is exactly what using bitcoin is.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 23:00 | 3193628 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

The funniest thing about the HOLD PHYSICAL versus PATTERNS OF ELECTRONS is how easily the tables can be turned.

I can tell you I'll be laughing my ass off when the gov initiates a nice clandestine program to overfly property with drones that can locate incredibly DENSE metal 1,000 feet away (the tech already exists, used in actual gold mining), building a nice database so the black vans can pay a visit and charge you with some trumped up excuse - taking your physical in the process.

Me, I'll just send it into the ether and format everything I own.

"What electrons, officer? Here, check Peter Pan and Laws Of Physics, I'm sure their stash will light up your scanner like a lightning storm."

Hey, I understand why Tyler was reluctant to cover Bitcoin. It will change the industry. Every single financial parasite will have to figure out their place - and nearly all of them will be eliminated by default. Yeah, I can see why everyone hates on it -- they're just too used to the FIAT GRAVY TRAIN.

Well, enjoy it while it lasts - because I know my yield and bitcoins will trump any fucked-up investment you can come up with.

I'd bet on it, but I don't take sovereign shit money.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 06:18 | 3194254 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You'll have to store the coin codes somewhere - there's ways to locate those too: it's called computer forensics and it has some pretty amazing tricks up its sleeve too.

Btw, you can't locate anything from air if it's buried under your basement, for one...

On a side note, sniffer planes were a funny joke in it's days, though - Total totally fell for it ;)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:08 | 3196482 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

thisandthat - I see you haven't discovered offline wallets, which are air-gapped from the internet. I'd go into a detailed explanation, but I think you'd learn more reading about it yourself.

Forensics can't do jack to something that doesn't have an IP address, and happens to reside on something so innocuous and mobile its ridiculous.

 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 00:04 | 3197714 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

And I see you haven't discovered there's plenty other ways to profile, target and set you up, namely man in the middle, honey pots, or, you know... monitoring online conversations to name a few. So keep dreaming until you're served a search warrant - you know, those things they serve you to apprehend whatever piece of evidence they'll be looking for. I'd also go into a more detailed explanation myself, but I also believe you'll eventually learn more about them first hand, no reading experience necessary.

 

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 12:54 | 3206512 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Yes, I'm sure they'll do that for EVERY bitcoin user in the whole world.

< rolleyes >

Is this the new "What if the internet explodes" kind of question? "What if they monitor EVERYONE? OH EMM GEE!"

Perhaps you should examine the depth of your retorts, such extremes usually occur when you're trying to rationalize something away.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:49 | 3194239 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

NSA (along with a few others) certainly does.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:48 | 3193070 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

you're missing the point

Anyone who thinks that wealth can be stored electronically is deluded

storing wealth and exchanging value are two different animals.  b/c is another means to facilitate exchange as opposed to accumulating wealth

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:11 | 3196492 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

I think you're missing the point that all of the worlds wealth that is transferred electronically and kept on bank servers is already in the realm of the virtual.

If you think that the entire infrastructure is going to evaporate like an ice cube in the desert, you're either hunkered down in your repurposed missile silo, or you're going to extremes for no reason.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:05 | 3196471 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Paranoia isn't healthy when you can't see the positive from the negative. By your very definition, massive amounts of infrastructure would have to be damaged to affect bitcoin in the slightest. And by "massive", I mean GLOBALLY.

I really have to wonder what is going through people's minds when all they can think of would hurt bitcoin is the ENTIRE INTERNET WOULD HAVE TO GO AWAY.

What the everloving fuck.

 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:30 | 3192462 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

While I believe in the premise of bitcoin there are hacks and it is not some perfect system.  Just do a search about it.  I am for bitcoin and I hope they succeed but it is not secure enough yet from my pov.

The disadvantages, JimRogers, is that if you don't hold it it doesn't exist.  One in the hand is better than one quadrillion in the internet ether bush.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 16:31 | 3192468 JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Who wants bitcoin? Giving out free bits to anyone who puts a public hash as a reply to this message

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:22 | 3192657 hawks5999
hawks5999's picture

1AeCTNhF3Sovi8fkjq7Buy8sYoc2C4xoo4

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:58 | 3197118 hawks5999
hawks5999's picture

thanks friend.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:51 | 3192920 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Jim, What worries me, is that the League of Extraordinary Central Banks will one day issue their own version of Bitcoin that is back by the Gov.  In my worst nightmare scenario, they will turn each of us into walking, talking bitcoins -- for every transaction to be made.  Intel's RFIDs are so small and ubiquitous now -- and I have "quality EE" inside sources -- assure me that it's coming.  TPTB won't back it with fiat, they'll back it with the country and everybody's "promise of wealth and work" behind it.   The apocalyptic 666 allusions aside, what will that do to Bitcoin, when you can't buy or sell w/o your on-board (1 mm) RFID-Bitcoin?   Thx.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:44 | 3193271 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

1. By doing that they will draw attention to bitcoin.

2. Will it be open-source?  Nope. Can we mine it?   Nope.

 

Bitcoin is anti-fragile; I pray for the day governments come for it.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:14 | 3192951 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

TIA, if you're for real.

 

1F8n48ymG6Ckw3robRuN5u4s2XBGaJtXDi

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:17 | 3193168 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Always open to free satoshi's

1HHpiJQAcsHy7aPmubMh5K84hayzJrgodf

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:17 | 3193508 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Thanks, got it

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:57 | 3193306 seek
seek's picture

OOh, more free money!

19uysjrgpZkPJBYSXPZeatpU3nnNwPWn4a

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:43 | 3193421 seek
seek's picture

'leet!

Thanks for the cash, man.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:14 | 3193494 i_fly_me
i_fly_me's picture

1GpWjP9DcFb4QgPnmVBWjeL4kaxqTRnzPG

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!