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Labor Minister Says France Is "Totally Bankrupt"

Tyler Durden's picture


Things in France must not be very serious, because the French labor minister accidentally let the truth come out a little earlier today. As the Telegraph reports, France's labour minister sent the country into a state of shock on Monday after he described the nation as “totally bankrupt."

Remember: France is one of the supposedly stable countries in Europe.

"Michel Sapin made the gaffe in a radio interview, which left French President Francois Hollande battling to undo the potential reputational damage. "There is a state but it is a totally bankrupt state,” Mr Sapin said. “That is why we had to put a deficit reduction plan in place, and nothing should make us turn away from that objective." It appears that once one wipes out the propaganda and the smooth politico talk, things are bad and getting worse at Europe's core. "Data from Banque de France showed earlier this month that a flight of capital has already left the country amid concerns that France’s Socialist leader intends to soak the rich and businesses. The actor Gérard Depardieu has renounced his French citizenship and decamped to Russia in protest, while David Cameron said Britain will “roll out the red carpet” to attract wealthy individuals. Pierre Moscovici, the finance minister, said the comments by Mr Sapin were “inappropriate”."

At least France can hike the tax on the millionaires to 75% to generate more money. Oh wait, no it can't.

But if capital is leaving France, where is it going? The FT has the answer:

Almost €100bn of private funds flowed back into the eurozone’s periphery late last year after action by the European Central Bank encouraged reinvestment in the crisis-hit countries.


The scale of the net inflows, equivalent to about 9 per cent of the economic output of Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland and Greece according to calculations by ING, the Dutch bank, highlight the revival in investor confidence in Europe’s monetary union after Mario Draghi, ECB president, pledged to preserve its integrity.


The return of capital has encouraged policy makers to believe the eurozone crisis is over, with Mr Draghi this month pointing to “positive contagion” in the region. The euro has also moved sharply higher.

Turns out it isn't, and the capital was merely rotating from the frying pan and into the 9th circle of insolvency hell. But at least the SNB is still buying up every French bond it can get its hands on to indicate that all is well with the "totally bankrupt state."

And speaking of private capital rotation, well Europe needed it. Recall the chart of European M3 loans to non-financial corporations we showed earlier based on central bank data:

Yup - a record outflow.

So if it wasn't for the private capital scrambling to fill the hole, Q4 in Europe would have been an absolutely epic disaster. One can only hope that private funds are as bottomless as the public central banks backstopping them, because should there be a reflaring of risk, all bets for Europe are off, precisely at a time when everyone is hoping that the worst is behind and that Europe, as every European politician was quoted as saying in past weeks, is now "fixed."

Of course, if France is totally bankrupt, there's nothing that a little diversionary war can't fix. Perhaps it is time to expand the Mali offensive a bit: there's a tempting little country in Asia called Vietnam...


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Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:49 | 3192712 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

en faillite

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3192725 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea, frozen accounts are never any fun. Just ask Marie Osmond.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:04 | 3192757 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I thought the word was "World" not "France."

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:08 | 3192771 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

raise taxes, that should fix it......o wait....

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:18 | 3192801 true brain
true brain's picture

An expansion of the war in Mali should solve this problem post haste.

Well at least for a while until, the people clamor for the return of the guillotine.

Sarkozy was wise to head to England before the SHTF.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:23 | 3192828 ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

I wonder how long it will take for the Labor Minister to be involuntarily Depardieu'd????????

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:18 | 3192983 Mark Carney
Mark Carney's picture

This is code for buy French OATS!!!!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:13 | 3193149 trav777
trav777's picture

wait, you mean the strategy of importing millions of africans to help uphold the "social contract" didn't go smoothly?  Whocouldanode?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:52 | 3193293 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

It took only a few days for "currency war" to be an MSM meme, aaaand France surrenders.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 23:11 | 3193667 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

We live in an era of pretend, when the term 'inappropriate' is used to characterize a public official's having spoken a bit of truth.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:55 | 3193305 AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Send them to help liberate Mali, a dozen other places in Africa. ;-/

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:18 | 3193173 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture




Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:31 | 3193386 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Bankrupt, eh? Not until they sell all their national assets.  How much for a lovely French maiden and a bottle of vintage?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:23 | 3193529 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

And they still have to come up with all the gold that they were holding for the Germans (that they spent!) that the Germans now want back.

Sacré Bleu!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 07:01 | 3194274 Dugald
Dugald's picture


Bankrupt, eh? Not until they sell all their national assets. How much for a lovely French maiden and a bottle of vintage?

Two bars of soap........!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:24 | 3192832 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Bankrupt cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Just when you thought france could not suck any worse.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:33 | 3192859 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

At least they don't live a life of lies like Americans.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:37 | 3192877 CH1
CH1's picture

And it is not a life of lies to believe, "the magic state will deliver free shit, cradle to grave," forever?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:57 | 3192938 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Ann Romney studied French, vacations in France, absolutely adores French everything......


US Elites love French high culture. Guess which country the Bankers take their mistresses....

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:07 | 3192957 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

France is not bankrupt, they just haven't managed to confiscate the remaining wealth of its citizens. Get back to me when all of your income and wealth has been transferred to the state.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:16 | 3192979 fourchan
fourchan's picture

must be bullish, a completly worthless country sounds undervalued to me. buy buy buy the fucking dips.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:51 | 3193081 withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

I have been aware of this coming, great that some Official said it. Why else would Hollande try to get every Euro he could out of the people. Rich are fleeing, The Government is illegally going over to Switzerland collecting information. My friends that live in France say that things are getting very difficult, it is more like a depression.

Carry on...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:08 | 3193474 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Whole thing reminds me of the old Sam Kinnison routine about the Betty Ford Clinic.  As he remarked "It costs $20,000 to go there.  But if you still have $20,000 you don't have a problem yet."

Like that.  But globally.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:21 | 3193894 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

It's a lot better in  France than where you are.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:51 | 3193076 magpie
magpie's picture

Next up, plundering the Catholic church and Islamic endowments...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:44 | 3193268 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

If they confiscate the Church property they could back their new curency with it.  

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:53 | 3193299 magpie
magpie's picture


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:21 | 3193525 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

They tried that after the Revolution, you know, with disasterous results, as they couldn't rein in the urge to print more and more of it.  It was one of history's more gruesome hyperinflations.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 02:12 | 3194110 natty light
natty light's picture

As I posted farther down:

Assignats, bitchez.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:11 | 3193483 akak
akak's picture

What IS the going market price for one altar boy, anyway?


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:20 | 3193520 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Several years in prison and sex offender permanent listing

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:27 | 3193001 knukles
knukles's picture

And therein sir, rests the entire existential problem.
I am French therefore I am French.

Too fucking bad.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:03 | 3193321 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"US Elites love French high culture. Guess which country the Bankers take their mistresses...."

I have it on good authority (Harry Reid) that bankers take their wives & mistresses to the Caymans to count their cash.

So it has to be true.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:23 | 3193536 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

CH1 said:

And it is not a life of lies to believe, "the magic state will deliver free shit, cradle to grave," forever?

But of course it is. I think you simply misunderstood Anusocracy, which is all too easy to do in a text-based medium. When he said, "at least they don't live a life of lies like Americans," he was referring to the manner in which the life of lies is lived.

They don't live a life of lies like Americans, they live a life of lies like the French.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:20 | 3192985 Freddie
Freddie's picture

At least the French do not have Obama.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:00 | 3193110 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So, you're saying there is still Hope?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:12 | 3193148 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I wonder if there is any correlation between a nations moral and financial bankruptsy?  I know the Weimar republic was a haven for hedonistic decadence and debauchery right before it collapsed.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:28 | 3193214 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Sure there is. When theft of private property by an over-reaching government becomes all-pervasive, the immorality of it as an imposition outweighs the morality of saving, as a ratio. Everyone swims with the current; the mainstream (at least).

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:07 | 3193856 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

"When theft of private property by an over-reaching government becomes all-pervasive"

And THAT is why the Founders thought of and wrote the 2nd Amendment.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:23 | 3193903 ParisianThinker
ParisianThinker's picture

Just wait until Uncle Sam steals your 401(K) and IRA.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 07:03 | 3194275 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Aren't they doing that already, right beneath your nose?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:39 | 3193256 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, there certainly is...and we're livin it.

Enjoy the ride down ;-)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:15 | 3193351 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The peak of our Washington Monument, unseen by the snakes and maggots below, still reads, Laus Deo.  I'm not concerned,  I know the snakes and maggots will be purged from this land.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:33 | 3193557 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Si, Deus vult.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:28 | 3193377 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

We atleast they can Hope for a Change!!!

While we are stuck with Uncle peice prize doing a reach around, digging for our change.



Tue, 01/29/2013 - 07:05 | 3194277 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Peace, man. Y

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:35 | 3193402 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture hope left.  But they do have a bit of change.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:32 | 3193230 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

>  At least the French do not have Obama.

Not yet. But the Ruling Family DO like to travel don't they, and Michelle DOES like fine dining, for which France seems to have quite a very good reputation.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:34 | 3193400 Jake88
Jake88's picture

NATO is Obama's bitch. Obama has France.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:01 | 3193112 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

you cheeseburger eating baboon , you've never been out of your fucking dump you call home.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:11 | 3196233 redd_green
redd_green's picture

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!",

Monty Python

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:16 | 3193162 trav777
trav777's picture

France has some of the pinnacle of western european WHITE culture.

Until they decided to import nigeria in some insane belief that they could be like "tan frenchmen" and would just assimilate to the French way of doing things.  They appear to have other ideas about the "social compact," about what "morality" is, right and wrong and all of that.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:15 | 3193499 akak
akak's picture

Fuck you and die, Trav.

It's ALWAYS the fault of "the darkies" with you, isn't it?

Yep, the manifest problems of France, and Europe in general, have NOTHING to do with their decades-long disastrous experiment in cradle-to-grave welfare statism, and their growing reliance on government (i.e., institutionalized coercion) in every facet of social and economic interaction for the last 70 years. No, ALL their problems are the result of importing darkies from Africa.

You are a racist piece of total shit.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 00:21 | 3193891 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

You are correct, but the same could said about the Socialist Disease that Europe exported to the US.

By the end of the 19th century, progressives from Europe took over the formerly libertarianish Democrat Party. The libertarianish, now homeless, then moved to the Republican Party in a very minor role.

That's why the formerly libertarianish US is now hopelessly saddled with two big government parties and libertarian is adrift.


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 02:31 | 3194136 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Travesty666 have you ever been to france? could you point it out on a map? if you would substitute Algerians for Nigerians then at least your BS would require further analysis.
In the 50 hotels i have resided the majority of staff were friendly algerians but that could all change if the race card is played out (scapegoat) prior to the collapse of the house of cards (solitaire).
Nigerians prefer english speaking countries to apply their trade and are not renowned for violence you tosser trav.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 03:46 | 3194175 Joe A
Joe A's picture

 I object to your words, French cheeses are the best the world

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:30 | 3192851 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Not necessary, as the French army stationed in Mali have located a rich, rich ore of high denomination Euro-notes.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:39 | 3192881 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I heard it was a self-refilling reservoir. Peak Euro my eye.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:07 | 3192960 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Not Euros, but something of real value like Uranium ...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:51 | 3192915 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

More importantly, what does this mean for the price of Bordeaux reds?

If the French are desperate to liquidate, then I'm a buyer, and Napa Cab Savs can wait.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:51 | 3192922 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Mark me down for a box of Sancerre or two.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:34 | 3193241 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture


Overpriced, but VERY nice (especially if someone else pays . . . .)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:05 | 3193465 Jafo
Jafo's picture

I'm still enjoying the discounts on quality Spanish wines.  Where will I find room in my cellar for the Bordeaux reds?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:21 | 3193188 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"I thought the word was "World" not "France."

Positive contagion, no doubt. Positive contagion. WTF? Only a career beguiler could come up with that!
Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:54 | 3192726 Stackers
Stackers's picture

well no duh

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:22 | 3192821 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

Did not get the Vietnam context ? That flew right over my head.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:33 | 3192863 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Assuming that you knew that the French were fighting in Vietnam before the US arrived (as the story goes), they (the French) could go back there and attempt to finish what they started. Any war is a good war apparently.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:36 | 3192873 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Untied Snakes jumped in during the Eisenhower administration just to show how it's REALLY done, using their winning ways learned in the Korean 'police action.'

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:07 | 3192959 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Thanks Dr. S for the history lesson - I had always thought it was Kennedy that got us into it.  But then I was only 4 at the time and a forced product of .gov schooling - sigh.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:32 | 3193015 knukles
knukles's picture

Oh no.
It was Eisenhower that first sent in advisers.
Kennedy only sent in advisers.
Sorta like the US forces on active duty on 35 African (continent) countries (as per the DoD) acting as advisers.

(Who, BTW, may fire upon whoever they fucking deem to be a danger to them to protect themselves... with their personal defense weapons so ... oh, neverthefuck mind..)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:10 | 3193140 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

France overestimated it's future need for rubbers...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:41 | 3193261 Acet
Acet's picture

There is an interesting book to read about this called "Hell in a Very Small Place" which I was recommended here (of all places) and just finished reading.

Anybody accusing the French of being Surrender Monkeys would do well reading it: French soldier are no cowards. High level officers and French politicians on the other hand, not so much ...


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:59 | 3193625 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Watch the beginning of "We Were Soldiers" for a snippet of French involvment in then IndoChina.  "Prisoners?, No kill all they send and they will stop sending them".

Hmm, interesting..

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 08:48 | 3194360 Acet
Acet's picture

Hollywood films are widelly known for misportraying things in an almost propagandistic fashion. If you trust them as source of information, you're being played.

I suggest you read the book. It is well researched and was written by an American before the US involvement in Vietnam turned sour and it certainly is not pushing any modern agenda (none of that Surrender Monkey bulshit that was started by Bush's spin machine and picked up by people who should've been wiser than to fall for that political bullshit).

In fact, the one thing that comes clear out of the book is that the French got involved in Vietnam in the first place to help the US and then when push came to shove, the US renegued on their side of the deal (by refusing to provide air support). The strategic consequences of this were pretty wide and the book's author believes it lead directly to the bloody revolutions for independence in places like Algeria which marked the end of the French overseas empire. With the hindsight of 60 years, I would say it also goes a long way to explain the French mistrust of the US.


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:24 | 3193197 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Watch "The Quiet American"

Decent depiction of how the US works (Vietnam)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:39 | 3193413 Jake88
Jake88's picture

You must be US educated post circa 1970

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:35 | 3193021 bobthehorse
bobthehorse's picture

France is broke.

America's broke.

Japan's broke.

And I'm broke.

What a motherfucker.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:38 | 3193249 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Everyone, Everywhere's broke.

Some, however, are in denial (Hello, Australia!!)

Or maybe "Broke but haven't realised it yet"??

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 23:27 | 3193722 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Is Russia broke?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:37 | 3193031 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Its nothing an Unconsitutional 75% tax cant fix


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:27 | 3193207 logicalman
logicalman's picture

If the US taxed everyone 100% for everything it still wouldn't cover ALL the debt.


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:32 | 3193560 Doña K
Doña K's picture

0% tax equals 100% tax as noone would work or file.

Just like the IQ of a driver is inversly proportionate to the distance of the bottom of his/her car to the pavement, the tax collected by governments is inversly proportionate to the tax rate.

That's directed to you pseudointelectual limousine flaming derrierre liberals. Pardom my French   

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:40 | 3193572 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

.......the IQ of a driver is inversly proportionate to the distance of the bottom of his/her car to the pavement.....

That does not apply to all drivers in Southern California. Call it an anomaly. Low riders anyone?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:14 | 3193347 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Something is slowly slowly coming out, it's going to be horrible.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3192713 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

This all could have been avoided if they'd had the foresight to diversify into BITCOINS...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:55 | 3192736 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Bitcoin’s Gains May Fuel Central Bank Concerns: Chart of the Day

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:09 | 3192763 Banksters
Banksters's picture


The UK is the New France, France is the new Spain, Spain is the new Greece, Greece is the new normal &  Germany's the new Riech.


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:49 | 3192911 Manthong
Manthong's picture

France is NOT Uganda..

Mali maybe, but definitely not Uganda. 

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:45 | 3193273 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Not yet. Not until the realisation hits home that there are very few "revenue generators" who will be "expected" to carry the burden of the vast unfunded liabilities that are an inveitable consequence of their very Socialist "Cradle to the Grave" life-care systems.

Remember Southern France is (or rather WAS) a VERY attractive retirement location for European elderlies, often becasue of the availability of very good, very cheap (at point-of-use) healthcare, which for this demographic is a very big concern (seeing as they certainly intend to live forever at everyone alse's expense - or at least they do in Australia, where we are having to really clamp down on "full resuscitation" demands!)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:24 | 3192830 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Now THATS funny...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:04 | 3192955 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Sad I made more money than you over the last 4 years?  :)

Keep making fun of Bitcoin and let's see where things stand in another 4 years.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:28 | 3193004 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I'm not against bitcoins, but if or when your particular country bans bitcoin internet traffic, you're SCREWED.  You can't bury or lose your bitcoins in a boating accident.  Maybe I'm wrong.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:13 | 3193156 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Walk into a local coin shop & ask them how many Bitcoins it'll tale to buy an oz of Au...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:19 | 3193177 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

They told me their internet was down and sent me home.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:36 | 3193245 CH1
CH1's picture

if or when your particular country bans bitcoin internet traffic, you're SCREWED.  You can't bury or lose your bitcoins in a boating accident.  Maybe I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

First of all, you don't have to use the Internet to transfer Bitcoins. Secondly, there is still encryption (and other things). Thirdly, there are multiple ways to store Bitcoins.

All you have to do is look into it and try.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:53 | 3193601 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

That's good to know...


So, like, when I want to order a new Kindle from Amazon, I just stick my encrypted FLASH gadgety gizmo into a leather pouch & send it by Pony Express to Seattle... They swipe it ~ stick it back in the courier pouch, & Trigger comes riding back to me with my Kindle & my loot a couple of weeks later...

I'm starting to warm up to this whole Bitcoin thing after all... [cept the part that I may have to pay SHIPPING insurance for the Stagecoach to fend off hoardes of wild injuns]...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:33 | 3194230 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

I support anything that competes with the fiat monopoly.  But I would probably never use bitcoin for the reasons mentioned above.  I could imagine using it as an in-between account however.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:48 | 3193071 Freegold
Freegold's picture

Myself I don´t care to make money on the pathway to a paradigm shift. I call yor Bitcoin and raise you physical-gold-in-your hand. Not a trader, just waiting for the inevitable. Gold has only to be repriced once, that´s enough :) It´s coming to a tradingpit near you!

There can be only one, the reference point per excellence! It´s barbaric but the reptilian brain will prevail.


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:39 | 3193254 CH1
CH1's picture

I call yor Bitcoin and raise you physical-gold-in-your hand.

Who ever said it had to be one or the other?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:36 | 3193562 buckethead
buckethead's picture

True enough. Additionally, physical has been outlawed in the US before, and it could be again. This doesn't mean you must surrender, but making use of said physical in a time of need would become significantly more difficult.


What is collapse? Is it an absence of government use of coercion or is it a totality of the same? I don't think we can honestly predict that one.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 05:09 | 3194218 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

'Additionally, physical has been outlawed in the US before, and it could be again.'



I guess an American populace that is dumb enough to obey the orders of  a government that has bankrupted them deserves what they get.


That's the only way you can look at it, I guess.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:41 | 3193246 moonstears
moonstears's picture

Spyker, what's the story, as you Bitcoin advocates see it, on the various "loss/thefts" some months ago, at various bitcoin "banks"? Not picking a fight, just wondering, assuming you're in the know as you often seem to advocate this Bitcoin dealeeo on ZH,  doe these "thefts" not give pause? No pondering "who" is behind them? Noticed the rise in Bitcoin value made Bloomberg recently, just sayin'.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:43 | 3193263 CH1
CH1's picture

The "gigantic theft" a few months ago was a few thousand bucks in the end (not the proudly reported $250K) - a lot like an average bank robbery. A small event, but excellent for the FUD crew.

And, by the way, Bitcoin can never be diluted with dollar-style printing. That's never, as in until they repeal mathematics.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:50 | 3193279 moonstears
moonstears's picture

You a bitcoin guy/gal CH1? Assuming so, I get alt currency, just

when I looked there have actually been a "few" thefts as I recall reading. No wonder who's behind this?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:49 | 3192715 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The first domino?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:07 | 3192766 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

There is just 1 domino.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:17 | 3192808 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

There is no domino.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:40 | 3192884 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

There is no market.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:10 | 3192966 Being Free
Being Free's picture

It's not my monkey.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:22 | 3192822 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

the fifth actually but who's counting right? plenty more country's left in europe...

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:55 | 3193095 Freegold
Freegold's picture

There will be no implosion of EURO and Europe. Prior to that gold will be bid and goodbye dollar and welcome new preferred currencie.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:00 | 3193316 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Another lamb of the FOFOA religion

Loyally following it's unknown master to who knows where.


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:50 | 3192717 Dr.Awkward
Dr.Awkward's picture


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:51 | 3192719 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

Have fun

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3192723 falak pema
falak pema's picture

just one of the gang; nothing more nothing less than the gang of four! 

For once a politician tells the truth lets not scoff him for that.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:23 | 3192829 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

LOL, remember Juncker? Or DSK? Or Berlusconi? There is this shiver along the spine of Anglophone reporters everytime they can report on the deliciously foreign quirks of continental politicians

French hyperbole, nothing else. I'm quite sure you don't think so but remember of what he is minister and what he has to sell and to whom

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:36 | 3193027 forexskin
forexskin's picture

i see you that shiver along the spine and raise you a shiver up Chris Matthew's leg.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:13 | 3193492 Whiteshadowmovement
Whiteshadowmovement's picture

Hey Ghordius, ive always appreciated your comments, your perspective is invaluable ometimes in these discussions.

Ive been wanting to ask you something: it seems to me there is sort of a very interestng cognative dissonance going on in the EU between keeping the euro rally going as a matter of european "pride" (i have several investors from germany and especially among older people this sort of dumb bullshit is a strong sentiment) vs. the obvious benefits of allowing the currency to weaken which would OBVIOUSLY be a huge benefit to the vast majority of the EU (especially in a period like now where commodity inflation is not a big deal). What do you think?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 07:54 | 3194179 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you are way too kind. I'm not sure how to answer your question. basically all fiat currencies are a matter of faith, too

and of course pride has a lot to do with it. but interest is the biggest part

perhaps I have to put it this way: europeans are way more scared of inflation than Americans, and experienced way more currency troubles

your proposal of weakening the currency so that a short term benefit can be reaped is - in the eyes of many of them, particularly the older - just that: selling the future for the present

I repeat: weakening your currency is nothing else than exchanging some of your future for some of your present (the opposite of saving and/or investing, where you exchange some of your present for some of your future)

i.e. something you do when in dire straits (for example in a conflict, be it a shooting war or a currency conflict), not as modus operandi

but I'm sure you'll find a lot of Americans and British that think the same way

to simplify: all this talk about how "socialistic" europe is makes forget how conservative europe is, too

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:56 | 3193094 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Right! The US senate has gangs of 13, gang of 7. The executive can have as many "Czar's" as they want. Next thing you know they'll mention that the USA is a corporation, and that they can't really violate the constitution, as corporations don't have constitutions. They have articles of incorporation. Not to be confused with articles of confederation, which is a completely different thing.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3192724 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Bankrupt? They know nothing of bankrupcy and misery, especially if they can participate in all last big wars with USA. They really should get to ground from their dreams.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:08 | 3192770 max2205
max2205's picture

Yep we invented bankrupt

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:54 | 3192727 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

'The State' is both that most are in ...

Confusion and denial..

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:54 | 3192728 Chippewa Partners
Chippewa Partners's picture

Parisians believing the world revolves around them again!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:36 | 3192878 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Truly. Don't the dumbasses know the center of the universe has shifted to New York City?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3192731 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I am so sick of all this. When does it end?

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:03 | 3192756 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

When the masses wake up to the farce and stop going along.  A long time it seems.  I asked that question years ago and here we are at market highs and most people are oblivious to it all

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:00 | 3193108 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Start by pulling the plug on Oba-TV and Oba-Hollywood.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 21:52 | 3193439 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Not a chance Freddie, maybe Paulie Adgoogle will show us some tit's this super bowl Sunday.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:28 | 3192845 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

When the 98% of the population that isn't quite human becomes human, or dead.

Evolution doesn't march across time as a straight line, it marches as a bell curve.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:31 | 3193227 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Depressing thought for an outlier!


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:30 | 3192849 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

It sucks being stuck on a rollercoaster where you are one of the few who see the tracks missing ahead...


Keep working and use the money to prepare you and yours.   Tell everyone the people in power suck ass.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:53 | 3192732 DrkPurpleHaze
DrkPurpleHaze's picture

It is nothing to die. It is frightful not to live.~Victor Hugo,....Molon Labe!!!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:54 | 3192733 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

If France is actually bankrupt, or the equivalent, then state-sponsored welfare programs are going to start failing pretty quickly. Of course, that little war in Mali will continue - the government can always find money for guns; its the butter that's going to stop flowing.

I'll give odds that Paris is burning before summer.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:57 | 3192741 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:13 | 3192785 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Zut, alors!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:20 | 3192818 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

ca va ca va, pas mon problem

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:13 | 3193155 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

What the fuck!!??

(sorry, that's all the French I know)

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:44 | 3193579 tnquake
tnquake's picture

Polly vue humma humma

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:01 | 3192949 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

ai-je dit tout haute? Merde!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 20:31 | 3193228 legorf
legorf's picture

Putain de bordel de merde.

Voilà, fixed up for ya.


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:55 | 3192734 Number 156
Number 156's picture

Hows that Francois Hollande working out for ya?


Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:56 | 3192739 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Liberty, Fratenity, Bankruptze! Viva LaFranz!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:14 | 3192792 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Yu should coin that!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:58 | 3192742 giggler123
giggler123's picture

Red carpet from Britian, well time will tell they are actually worse off.  Having no money has not stopped them flying in troops to Mali.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 18:49 | 3192908 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Yeah, but who's footin the bill? Last I heard it was once again the US taxpayer.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 19:46 | 3193058 knukles
knukles's picture

And to be more precise, they did not fly into Mali.  The USAF flew them into Mali because they cannot even provide for more than a busride next door.
Sacre suck my nuts.

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 22:13 | 3193495 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's not the US taxpayer!  It's the US asset holder that's footing the bill.  Taxes pay for less than half anymore. Printing dollars confiscates wealth from those that hold it, like savers.   If your wealth is not in USDs, you may be exempt and if you get to borrow at 1% or so, you win.  Pensioners lose.

France cannot take advantage of this as long as they're euro bound like the US and UK can.  Viva la franc!  Their predecessors knew how to print them!

Mon, 01/28/2013 - 17:59 | 3192747 Orly
Orly's picture

But it is Mission Accomplished for the Europeans! Their bond yields say so!

What could possibly, I say possibly, go wrong?


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