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Italian FinMin Grilli On Monte Paschi: Bank Is Solid; Aid Is Not Bailout

Tyler Durden's picture


Following his impromptu discussion early this morning with Mario Draghi, Italy's finance minister has proudly stepped before the cameras to discuss the farce that has become Monte Paschi. In a stream of seemingly incredulous hypocrisy, the minister explains that:


Indeed, it seems that Juncker-ism has leaked across to all the ministers as a new realm of reality strikes the Italian banking system. So the 'bank is solid', 'aid is not a bailout', and 'water is not wet'.


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Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:20 | 3194590 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture

Water is wet!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:29 | 3194626 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins. When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins........the bailouts begin.


Sorry Rudyard

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:45 | 3194675 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

"Now hear me loud and clear, I did not have sex with Ms. Lewinsky, not once, not ever."  Clinton 1998

"The housing market has seen strong growth over the years but in no way are we experiencing bubble price levels because employment is still low nationwide."  Bernanke  2006

"When it becomes serious, you have to lie".  Juncker 2011

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:29 | 3194633 GolfHatesMe
GolfHatesMe's picture

Default is ..... Well it used to be bad, but that is when it used to mean default

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:30 | 3194636 toady
toady's picture

I'm always a little depressed when the question is not asked / publicized as loudly as one of these statements.

"This is not a bail out."

"If they don't need it don't give it to them"

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:41 | 3194676 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

That's some deep JingJang mantra shit man!


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:42 | 3194683 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

and the check is in the mail.

How many fingers,Winston.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:21 | 3194593 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Aid is not Bailout... [as always ~ it totally depends on what the definition of "IS", is]...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:48 | 3194698 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

If a boat needs 'aid' but not to be bailed out, but it doesn't get the aid, and it then sinks, did it actually need to be bailed out after all?  

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:48 | 3194700 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Our computers will get together with your computers, we'll change a few numbers around, and presto, you're rock solid.  Nevermind that the original problem, namely your corrupt and parasitic being, has not been fixed or even addressed.  Everything is fixed now.  No problems!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:22 | 3194594 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Government aide is not to help an insolvent bank...That's funny. I think all these inbred mutants are from the same bloodline as Bagdad Bob.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:27 | 3194616 Lohn Jocke
Lohn Jocke's picture

Aaand Central Banks in turn aid insolvent Governments.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:34 | 3194647 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

  Definitve article on any bank collapse.


Time line of a bank collapse

1. The Board issues a statement accusing bloggers of spreading both irresponsible and factually incorrect rumours as the bank is sound and has no need of new capital.

2. The Bank issues a statement of confidence in its management.

3. The Bank tries to raise more private capital in spite of it having no need for it.

4. If this does not work the relevant government(s) express(es) complete confidence in the bank and tell us that it has a sound management structure and business model. Indeed the bank had only recently been giving the government advice as to how to run the public-sector more efficiently.

5. The relevant government(s) tell us that they are stepping in to help the bank but the problems are both minor and short-term and are of no public concern.

6. The relevant government(s) tell us that the bank needs taxpayer support but through clever use of special purpose vehicles there will be no cost and indeed a profit is virtually certain.

7.Part-nationalisation of the bank is announced and taxpayers are told that a profit will result from this sound and wise investment.

8. Full nationalisation is announced to the sound of teeth being pulled without any anaesthetic.

9. Debt costs of the relevant sovereign nation or nations rise.

10. Consequently that nation finds that its credit rating is downgraded.

11. It is announced that due to difficult financial times public spending needs to be trimmed and taxes such as Value Added Tax need to be raised. It is also announced that nobody could possibly have forseen this and that nobody is to blame apart from some irresponsible rumour mongers who are the equivalent of terrorists. A new law is mooted to help stop such financial terrorism from ever happening again.

12. Some members of the press inform us that bank directors were both “able and skilled” and that none of the blame can possibly be put down to them as they get a new highly paid job elsewhere.

13. Former bank directors often leave the new job due to “unforseen difficulties”.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:38 | 3194658 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That pretty much sums it up.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:48 | 3194682 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Looks like we are at step 11 or 12 depending your view here in the US. I'd argue TBTF is the new synonym for nationalization these days. I'd also say you can make a case for Dodd-Frank act being nothing more than the official codification of TBTF under the guise of regulation.

Interesting article on Dodd-Frank

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:54 | 3196159 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

William, pls get a picture of Bagdad Bob and Grilli.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:21 | 3194596 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Sounds like JKE... Jedi Knight Economics

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:42 | 3194681 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

This is not the economic reality you're looking for...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:23 | 3194601 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Fuck you, bunch of lying fucking stinking pricks. Fucking eat shit.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:30 | 3194621 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Take off the kid gloves..  ;)


As LofP says below, when the fuck are the guillotines going to see blood?  

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:34 | 3194649 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I prefer: Fuck you, bunch of lying fucking stinking pricks.  Eat a bag of dicks.

They say you are what you eat Paschi!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:23 | 3194603 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

O.K., so now even when it's only semi-important you have to lie.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:24 | 3194606 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I know several farmers who could use some of that "non-bailout" aid.  This drought has been nasty and it continues (vineyards doing great).  Admittedly my fruit and nut trees don't mind and the hops are doing well, but that is why you diversify.

In any case, fuck the motherfucking paper-pushers, when are the fucking guillotines going to roll already?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 11:07 | 3194758 Looney
Looney's picture

. "I know several farmers who could use some of that "non-bailout" aid.


How about “NO AID TO ANYONE!”?

No aid to bankers.

No aid to farmers.

No aid to octomoms.


What happens to a lion, a skunk, or a spirochete bacterium when they can’t find something to eat? Well, they fucking die! Unless, of course, they apply for some kinda AID. ;-)


The sooner we will get rid of the concept of AID the better.


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 11:12 | 3194781 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Go look up the definition of "sarcasm" dipshit and stop worrying about it, that which cannot be sustained, won't be.  My tribe and I will be just fine.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:24 | 3194609 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

It a lian bankster.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:25 | 3194610 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

and the shit comming out of your mouth does'nt stink,right?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:26 | 3194613 kaa1016
kaa1016's picture

They have mastered the game. Keep telling people that things are fine and eventually, people will believe it. Why? Because the markets are going up so everything must be fine. (Smart people know this is bullshit, but the smart people have also had their asses handed to them going short) They know that no one does any real due diligence these days and what controls the tape are those headline scanning algo's. I know one day the shit will hit the fan, but the question is how many shorts will be left to make money on the other side.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:29 | 3194632 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

There is a better chance at this point that when the shit hits the fan you put on cnbc and you see the camera panning on empty desks with an empty trading floor in the backround. Good luck with your shorts then. The only question is that tomorrow or 2045.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:32 | 3194642 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That's my belief. When the time does come to short the market , there won't be a market there to short. Everything will have vaporized. I just hope it's not in 2045.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:38 | 3194654 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The contrarian view of course is that it has become a "hotel california" market.  "Officially" it will always be "up".  However, only the "right people" will be able to cash out.

If you want to do any real business or trading it will be done in the black markets or e-bay.  In many cases, I see evidence of this already.  Almost two years ago I paid a plumber in silver when running some new sewer lines.  In the real world, people still need to get things done,  if they cannot find true price discovery in the official market, then they will look elsewhere.  Some things will never change.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:25 | 3194615 RougeUnderwriter
RougeUnderwriter's picture

Statements like this used to equate to the kiss of death in 2009


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:29 | 3194629 Bahamas
Bahamas's picture

Face is not ass

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:45 | 3194687 toady
toady's picture

This must be an exception to the rule, because that dude is one ass-faced motherfucker!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:31 | 3194638 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I see that the Bank of Italy's secretly printing more lieras.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:32 | 3194639 new game
new game's picture

next lie

reading the headlines; all lies

can anyone tell the truth anymore.

calling london...

calling the pope?

anyone, please just tell me the truth, i beg...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:32 | 3194640 Alpacanio
Alpacanio's picture

When they say it's not a bailout, then it's a bailout.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:32 | 3194643 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

This is not the bailout you're looking for....

-Monte Paschi

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:33 | 3194644 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Looks like the end game is not to far away. They get more nutty in their statements as the control slips away and paranoia creeps in to fill the void.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:36 | 3194652 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture



Let's not call it a loan...


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:40 | 3194668 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

well done mussari, he's the one!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:40 | 3194671 wattsnotsaid
wattsnotsaid's picture

Off topic but relevant to past posts-

At CT gun hearings Mark Mattioli who lost son at Sandy Hook gave powerful testimony that more gun regulations are not the answer--civility is---

But the best was Linda Czaplinski who began by chastizing the sleeping legislators for not paying attention and then gives them hell for taking away our rights:

As one commenter said,

"I love this? lady...


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:45 | 3194686 Financial Cold ...
Financial Cold Fusion's picture

I'd imagine that many of you aren't fluent in Italian.  Allow me to translate...

The Banko is out of lira, needs bailouto immiadiato or it is finito


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:53 | 3194707 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

What he's prescribing is an Italian supository.  A central bank in-u-endo, where all the people take it in the ass.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:53 | 3194715 new game
new game's picture

on topic

one big sock puppet show everywhere i look




tptb will mold the outcome to take money from your pockets

and/or liberties given to you upon your first breath of air

slow drip so you won't get too alarmed

big drip after an event

all of a sudden-wtf happened

bank acct frozen

no travel


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 10:53 | 3194711 put_peter
put_peter's picture

Grill'd but still solid.


Tue, 01/29/2013 - 11:16 | 3194795 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Aid is not bailout.

Fee is not tax.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 11:17 | 3194796 Bahamas
Bahamas's picture

Grilli in Italian means crickets...and crickets are known to be good singers....when italian bankers sing..they end up in a nasty way...see Michele Sindona and Roberto Calvi.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 11:43 | 3194917 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

These are not the droids you are looking for.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:04 | 3194985 Super Broccoli
Super Broccoli's picture

"aid is no bailout"

wow ! we might just have found the solution to unemployment ! Noone's unemployed actually, we only have helped them !!!!

Can't wait to see Obama telling us the US-unemployment dropped under 0% :-)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:09 | 3195008 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

Here's some money (no value) to buy Italy (like Greece). That's amore!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:14 | 3195028 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And at our other favorite Italian bank

via google translate

(ANSA) - ROME, JANUARY 29 - Resignation immediate Bersani as secretary of the Democratic Party and the establishment of a commission of inquiry on MPS. And 'what invokes Beppe Grillo on his blog where announces the call for a commission of inquiry as soon as M5S will come' in Parliament. '' Mps dwarfing not only Parmalat, but also the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, behind this colossal looting, as it was then, it can be anything. Craxi, in comparison, stealing candy from children'' says Grillo.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:32 | 3195081 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Ties in with this story so far under reported here at ZH.

And this

Pier Luigi Bersani, the frontrunner to succeed Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti, on Monday said he would take on Germany in a drive to reorient eurozone economic policies away from austerity.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:39 | 3195116 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And what is the big story playing in the propaganda, MSM media outlets but bunga bunga sticking his foot in his mouth over comments he made about Mussolini bit his wienie.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 13:15 | 3195221 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Also probably ties in with this somehow.


The Tylers or one of the guest posters can tie all the threads together if they want to do a piece on this. All the information is in the links.


Advisory group Rothschild's Italian unit has never advised Monte dei Paschi di Siena on any capital measure linked to the acquisition of smaller peer Antonveneta from Santander, it said on Sunday, denying a press report.

In a statement Rothschild SpA said it had only advised Santander in the sale.

It said it would take legal action against Italian newspaper La Repubblica which published the report on Sunday.

Monte Paschi, Italy's third largest bank, is under investigation over its 9-billion-euro cash acquisition of Antonveneta from Santander in 2007.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 12:41 | 3195140 Paracelsus
Paracelsus's picture

Just sad that it is one of the oldest banks on the planet.

I guess the whole counterparty thing was based on an illusion.

Once everyone found out about the crap on the other guy's books the game was up.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 14:01 | 3195389 falak pema
falak pema's picture

virtually the nationalisation of Monte pAschi; game over move on! 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 14:32 | 3195520 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

More on Monti De Paschi from

translated via google translate

Commission of Inquiry for Monte dei Paschi di Siena

>>> Today, January 29 in Catanzaro, square Prefecture, at 17, and in Reggio Calabria, Cathedral Square, at 21. Tomorrow, January 30th I will be in Messina, Piazza Cairoli 12 hours, Ragusa, Piazza San Giovanni, at 17, and Catania, University Square, at 21. Follow live coverage of The Thing! >>>
In 1995 he privatized the Monte dei Paschi di Siena, who's in charge is the MPS Foundation (55%) by representatives of the City, with members present almost every area of ??pd, which governs the city since World War II (8 appointed by the Municipality, 5 from Province, one by Region, Unisi and Diocese). The Foundation only live dividend and its shares are sold over time to various characters such as Caltagirone and Gnutti. To reward shareholders MPS starts selling its properties, including investments in banks (St. Paul, General), whole banks such as the Savings Bank of Prato and properties (estate of Fontanafredda, palaces Monte Mario in Rome) and remunerate new shareholders but are actually the result of saving forever and Siena. MPS is gnawed. The left has fulfilled its mission to deliver a public bank that worked from 1500 to the stock market and speculation. The value of MPS before privatization was around 20bn Euros, today it is less than 2 and each day his title decreases.
Today 10,000 employees risk their jobs. The City Council is Ceccuzzi fall. The Foundation no longer has the majority of shares (had to sell it) and it seems the nationalization and the dismissal of perhaps 10,000 people.

Story of a sack

- Banco Santander to buy Antonveneta 6, 6 billion euro

- Banco Santander realizes he made a bad deal, spun off from Interbanca Antonveneta, valued 1.6 billion, and look for a buyer, the real value of the bank is about 3 billion

- Monte dei Paschi to buy Antonveneta 10.3 billion a few months after

- MPS will cover also the passive Antonveneta for 7.9 billion

- MPS at the time was worth 9 billion and buy Antonveneta that has half of its branches (1,000 against 2,000) for a figure, 10.3 billion, higher than the same value of MPS

- MPS has 10.3 billion, then borrows the title collapses

- To do this, the president of MPS Mussari (also former president of the Fondazione MPS) was rewarded with the chairmanship of the ABI without any political party or supervisory body opposes

- The public prosecutor's office opened an investigation of Siena enormous loss operation Antonveneta. Equal to about 14 billion €, 28,000 billion lire, a financial scandal that threatens to embarrass the Parmalat

- The Foundation MPS, the majority shareholder of MPS, indicates to the shareholders of the bank for the appointment of Alessandro Profumo as president. Perfume former CEO of Unicredit is remanded to the court in Milan on charges of tax fraud

- Nose tip immediately on the reduction of personnel equal to 4,300 without filing a claim against the MPS as responsible for the disaster

- The Foundation must sell part of its share ownership of MPS and went from 55% to 35%

- To avoid the failure of MPS Monti makes a loan of 3.9 billion, a figure equivalent to the IMU on the first house

- Grillo speaks of "hole" 14 billion shareholders' meeting of 25 January 2013, the hole was referred to by the subtraction of value through the operations related to Antonveneta

- Monday, 28 January 2013 i am investigating on the deal Antonveneta discover international transfers for 17 billion

- Immediately after emerging large sums that would have been returned to Italy with the Tax Shield wanted by the PDL and approved in the classroom due to the absence of many members of the PDminusL

Faced with this colossal theft against the Italians, whose final tally is perhaps not yet completed, I ask:
- Verification of the assets of the secretaries of the pd and all the nominees in the foundation MPS from the town of Siena, Province of Siena, Tuscany Region since 1995
- Publication of the names of all those who enjoyed the tax shield with the amount of the amounts returned to Italy
- The immediate resignation as secretary Bersani of the Democratic Party
The M5S ask for the establishment of a commission of inquiry on MPS his entry into Parliament.

MPS dwarfing not only Parmalat, but also the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano, behind this colossal looting, as it was then, it can be anything. Craxi, in comparison, stealing candy from children.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 15:02 | 3195554 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

We have this now happening under Draghi's watch in 2007 as the head of the Bank of Italy.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 15:25 | 3195742 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And even more proving the Bank of Italy including Draghi presided over the transaction.

Official documentation here.



translated via google

Seven pages to describe how the Bank of Italy has watched over Monte dei Paschi di Siena. It is the document presented to the Finance Committees of the House and Senate met at the end of the hearing devoted to the story of the Monte dei Paschi di Siena. "The action of supervision of the Bank of Italy on the Monte dei Paschi di Siena in recent years - it is written in the first lines - has been continuous and increasing intensity and is structured around the key areas of management." Read the document that follows, starting from January 2008, the stages of supervision after the application for the acquisition of the Antonveneta ABN Amro, under an agreement with the bank Santander, to requests for information on operations Alexandria and Santorini.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:53 | 3196095 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Official documentation ocr converted to docx and translated. First 7 pages are the original Italian, last 7 translated to english.


In particular, the liquidity condition characterized by high volatility of sales, mainly affected by two repo operations on structured bonds made respectively with Deutsche Bank and Nomura for a total nominal value of approximately EUR 5 billion, with risk profiles not adequately monitored and evaluated by the structure of MPS nor fully reported to the Administrative Body.
• With reference to the vehicle Santorini, inspection discloses no evidence to initiate a sanction or a report to the judicial authorities.


Looks like we have another problematic derivatives trades not yet mentioned as per the lines here. And the 2 counterparties are Deutsche Bank and Nomura.

MPS forward to the Supervisory Board a draft report to the Board of Directors containing the earliest references on the operations Nomura / Alexandria, Deutsche Bank / Santorini. It also mentioned a transaction of less impact called "Note Italy", for which it is reported that the mistakes made in the assessment of the operation about the identification of risk components.

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