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Santelli's Paradox And Why The Fed's Exit Will Be "Very, Very Messy"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

We are in our sixth year since the US officially went into recession and yet, as CNBC's Rick Santelli notes, we are still in crisis management mode. Some argue that any day now, the Fed will begin to remove its mega liquidity pipe from the market but Rick exclaims in this wonderfully succinct clip that: "there is no expiration date on faulty illogical ideas," as he expects any Fed exit to be "very, very messy." Rick's dilemma is the seemingly paradoxical need for yet moar and bigger monetary policy crisis management by Ben Bernanke when day-after-day we are told by the very guests on his network that "stocks look great." At the end of the day, when the Fed decides to exit, they will not be able to put the liquidity 'toothpaste' back in the tube.

 

 


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Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Landotfree
Landotfree's picture

There is no exit.

Rick better get with the program.   The Fed's job is to prolong the system as long as possible before the eventual collapse, their job is not to stop the collapse, as that is impossible.  Yes, it will get messy.

 Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. 

Neo: What truth? 
Spoon boy: There is no spoon. 
Neo: There is no spoon? 
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Besides, without toothpaste everywhere, just what would there be for the IMF to clean up?

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

A mess because there is no buyer.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

And its going to be 2 girls and 1 cup kind of messy too.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

unless they let us suspend mark to market in our own lives and give us access to the fed window of zirp.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 01:23 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Talk about turning a mess into a catastrophe.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment King_Julian
King_Julian's picture

I've seen that. Absolutely fucking disgusting.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:51 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

How do you think the Fed is going to feel when it quite litterally has to perform the same trick ??? And not just a cup full, but barrels and barrels of it.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Two girls and one mountain?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:40 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

I dunno. Bernanke and Krugman eating shit might be pretty good times. Be even better if they ate shit and died.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"A mess because there is no buyer."

You don't need a buyer.

When the FED has scoffed-up all of the govt paper it can lay it's hands on fearless leader will shut down the FED, simply cancel all of the paper they hold, and replace all of the FRN's with U.S. Notes (Lincoln Greenbacks- after all Lincoln is his hero). Fearless leader will then be assassinated.

All Problems solved!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

My bet is the messy part is on purpose too.  A public outcry to "End the Fed" that culminates in Washington grabbing hold of the proverbial wheel - ending in a spectacular crash.  Oh the irony.  The scapegoating.  Blame for everyone!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Landotfree
Landotfree's picture

The scapegoat is always something or someone other than the actually problem... in this case the use of an equation that demand exponential growth.  GROW OR DIE.  Of course all systems have lifespans and cycles, but this is a system which comes at a huge price at the end.

Rick's problem is he thinks you can just get off the wave.  The guys in the movie point break disagree.   The commitment was made before any of us were born, more or less, our own choice is to choose differently.

 

 

ROACH See, it's all dynamic, it's all in motion. You can't just stop and walk on in to the beach if you don't like the way things are going, y' know what I mean? You gotta ride it out man, all the way. GROMMET You ride the monsters, you gotta know you're ridin' a line between life and death. There ain't no forgiveness.
UTAH So what's the biggest? Waimea? BODHI (V.O.) No, Bells Beach, Australia.

 

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:51 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Considering the global nature of this particular cycle, along with the massive population growth over the last century now pressing up against resource contraints including the end of cheap energy... this is one hell of a wave we are riding.  I suppose the term "wipe out" is quite fitting, unfortunately.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 01:26 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The energy resources are not that strained, if you count how much malinvestment and inflation is being experienced. When the cards fall the reality will be made apparent, that we have plenty of energy and that people should stop wasting it on ideas that will never work.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:06 | Link to Comment I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

love it land o free

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:01 | Link to Comment beachdude
beachdude's picture

Love point break. Watched the gas station scene filming in Redondo near dive n surf. Back then a knock down on the strand could be had for <$1M.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 02:18 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

UTAH So what's the biggest? Waimea? BODHI (V.O.) No, Bells Beach, Australia.

 

I know it's only a movie and all but christ they could at least get something as a surf beach right. Margret River in Western Australia consistently has higher waves - on greater occations - than bloody tourist trap Bells.

Link just for image of the waves not the story:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/travel/margaret-river-named-australias-best-t...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

“Anything, anything would be better than this agony of mind, this creeping pain that gnaws and fumbles and caresses one and never hurts quite enough.”
Jean-Paul Sartre, No Exit

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:14 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep, the fact is, the FED can NOT just 'exit' at all any more than a comatose life support patient can just be unplugged...there's no way out and they know it.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Bachman Turner Overdrive - You Aint Seen Nothing Yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo (3:49)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:47 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Isn't this why they're planning on a collapse of the dollar? The Fed loads up on all the debt and implodes taking the FRN with it.

Next, martial law, dissolution of US sovereignty, final formation of NAU, and approximately 10-20 years of killing off the dissenters, need to give the military something to do.

Remember, the dollar is just a debt instrument of the Federal Reserve. They can easily create a new central bank that prints a new Federal Reserve Note, it can be called the Amero or NAU Federal Reserve Note.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:25 | Link to Comment IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

It already exists in the IMF and the SDR... An ounce of gold is priced at 42.50 SDRs and countries have bought into the IMF proportionately with gold. The US owns somthing over 17% of the IMF through its purchases... and Ben Betwinkie is our representative.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Ah SDRs.

These are going to be fun.

Not only are they using these to currently backstop the "system," but they are also using them to ameliorate the effects of inflation that would accrue to them, the world bankers.

In inflation, especially hyperinflation, the underlying debt's value drops to zero leaving the debtor with title to the underlying collateral. However, if the world banks get everything valued in SDRs as well as the "local" currency then the debtor may not owe on the debt in say dollar terms anymore, but will still owe in SDR terms.

We will see situations where hyperinflation wipes out a country and its currency but everyone that owed before will still owe, just in SDR terms. Not going to like those apples too much.    hujel

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Does anyone really believe that after the failure of a fiat reserve that the world will be psyched to embrace another fiat medium of exchange without some thing secure to save with? SDRs are Soro's wet dream. I guess he has a few.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:20 | Link to Comment rbg81
rbg81's picture

NAU?  Ha--your're thinking too small.  The only way the System survives is to have one world currency.  That way, there is no where anyone can go to escape the Fiat declaration.  Space travel will have to outlawed too--its too good an escape route.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 00:18 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

the system will only survive if they can keep the toilets working and fresh TP. when that stops....we will really see all hell break loose.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 14:04 | Link to Comment dunce
dunce's picture

Or a trillion dollar platinum coin, viola, obamas new deal!!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

Exactly! The Federal Reseve cannot exit.

Their trapped buying US debt until there is a currency crisis. 

It's not if but when. The Fed's plotted the Zimbabwe methodology where debt is printed down and the stock market goes parabolic. 

Everyone starts dumping US dollars for stocks as a way of retaining value.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:26 | Link to Comment IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Obviously Obummer does not care how many dollars he creates and spends since the dollar is going away anyway. He just want to cement as much power as possible before the collapse.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

There will never be an exit. The Bernank put his cards on the table, and he is all in. Any decrease in buying by the Fed could very well be cataclysmic, so I certainly do not believe the Fed has any intention of beginning to sell, ever. The path has been chosen and this path will lead us to currency destruction by way of debasement whether the Columbia, Harvard, and Princeton graduates realize it or not. The central planners have trapped themselves in a sticky web of hubris and willful self-delusion. Create your own escape route or suffer the destructive consequences of ivory tower insanity.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:50 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

He was TOLD to do what he is doing. ("get to work.") if Banzai here thinks "he's got the goods on the Bernank"...well, obviously so do the people in this world that matter. The question obviously...and it is a question cuz that equity space is surging "not for nothing"...is "what can the Fed do if there's a correction?" When Morgan ran the country he literally "swooped in from the Church pew" and "saved the day." Needless to say New York City greeted him like the hero he actually turned out to be...unlike the current variation where "we're all going to need bigger rocks to climb under" if this thing has something "serious and provacative" about it. In other words "the Fed will be watching" if the market tanks cuz it can't do anything about it. "Now work on that!"

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment dunce
dunce's picture

Bernanke is no Machiavellian financial wizard, he is just a bush league hack with a blank check on our future.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:33 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

 

Most of you complain on here about the same dam thing your really hoping for over and over.  The scary thing is you are really getting what you want, just not fast enough for your liking. So go get some help for your personality disorders. You can’t have it both ways.

 

All of you who have wishful dreams of market collapse and a financial reset should love Obumer  at this point in time. He is speeding his way to exactly what you want. But no, you complain he is doing everything wrong.  He is ruining this country.  You all know we can’t fix the problem if you’re a ZH reader.  So its’ print or default.  No other option.

 

 

On the Obumer path

 

1)    We run out of money and default in epic fashion.

2)    Silver and gold shoots to the moon in prices

3)    Guns and ammo. The best way to make you want something more. It to threaten to take it away or abolish it.  (Guns & ammo all time high prices and supply is low)  Obumer built it, sold it, and pushed the agenda. He made you buy that new assault rifle you been putting off.

4)    All EBT, SNAP, Food, or welfare will be declined at your local fake fiat bank and grocery store.

5)    Breaking many of our constitutional rights as free Americans

6)    This list can go on forever ………

 

Who are you, well incase you can’t figure it out.  I will tell you.

 

The a$$ that keeps saying, gold and silver biatches. Then says obumer sucks. When you should be cheering for him if you have any silver or gold..  The a$$ about my boat was loaded with guns and PM’s tipped over.  Really, a mentally challenged person can use a metal detector you moron. If you have an amount of guns and PM’s that’s worth looking for someone will find it.

 

Fuck BEN, well….. is he not printing fast enough for you, poor baby…… idiots.

 

What you should be doing is filling out any all government forms to get your free money and handouts.  That will help in speeding up the process you so desire. Tell people on here factual information.

 

 

If you can’t understand this, I will make it easier for you.  If you can’t add something of substance to this blog backed by fact then STFU.  

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:47 | Link to Comment stewie
stewie's picture

Amen to that BC.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Well, aren't you the splooge that dripped out of the tooth fairy's ass.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:03 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

You were much kinder than I was gonna be...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

broken clock: Do you buy homeowner's insurance and then wish for a fire???

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:25 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

I do have insurance and no I don't plan on a fire ,  but you missed the whole topic of the post.  read it again.....

 

read below for comment on fire insurance. no need to cover that stupidity again

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:34 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

I think your basic premise is reversed. I notice that most ZHers do not WISH collapse, but are instead gaping at it in horrified fascination. Recognition is not the same as desire.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:17 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

Desire has nothing to do with it.  We are playing the finance/money game. It's called put your money where your mouth is. Many ZH's  are bet heavy on gold, silver, guns, ammo, and food. If i was bet heavy in those areas, i would be hoping for the total collaspe .  I would be in  joyful delight about all the excellent choices as of late. ......They are not using metals as a hedge against a diversified portfolio. 

Otherwise why keep pounding the dirt with the same old stupidy.  Maybe I should just refer to it as pesonality  disorder and move on.

 

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You are truly both a stupid and a disingenuous fuck.

Many ZH's  are bet heavy on gold, silver, guns, ammo, and food. If i was bet heavy in those areas, i would be hoping for the total collaspe .

Oh, AND a raging sociopath to boot.

Buying insurance as a hedge against calamity does not necessarily (or even usually) equate to a desire to meet and experience that calamity.  Do you itch to burn down your house after buying fire insurance, or to go out and crash your car merely because you have automobile insurance?

Your "logic" is as faulty as your morals.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:13 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

You didn't pay any attention to the post. Another troll.  It has nothing to do with insurance or being hedged on postitions.  It's about wasting time reading the same stupid  trolls that are pushing for what they want.  No infomation, no facts, no meaning,  Just post the same dribble over and over again. Then complaining about the same people who are helping to make there postition favorable.

 

Now make sure you call your therapist so he can increase your dosage, looks like you can't focus and are very defensive. Looks like your off topic rant and lack of understanding of my original post caused short term memory loss.

The post was to make a point and distinguishing between a thoughtful fact based or informative post. That intelligent readers come here for. 

I will answer your stupidy about the fire insurance, to show your how rediculous you sound.  I do have insurance on my home. But if i was postitioned to financialy gain more from it buring down then I wouldn't complain in Obumer and Uncle ben came around with carosine and blow torches. 

If you can't get the desired results from your therapist I'm sure there are a few people that will be happy to point you in the right direction.

 

 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 01:10 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

 

It has nothing to do with insurance or being hedged on postitions.  It's about wasting time reading the same stupid  trolls that are pushing for what they want.

And so you are here, then, in the midst of your putative "same stupid trolls", .... why?

I will answer your stupidy about the fire insurance, to show your how rediculous you sound.  I do have insurance on my home. But if i was postitioned to financialy gain more from it buring down then I wouldn't complain in Obumer and Uncle ben came around with carosine and blow torches.

So apparently your response to my logical analogy (which you clearly lack the intellect to grasp) is .... even more stupidity.  Stupidity, because NOBODY, here or probably anywhere else, has MORE to gain from the collapse of our economy and our financial and monetary system than they do from the continuation of our current, if diminished, level of prosperity.  One might be relatively better off holding gold during a monetary collapse or a period of high inflation than they otherwise would be, but that does not equate to them having MORE to gain from an economic or monetary collapse than if such a collapse did not take place.

Logic is evidently not one of your strengths, is it?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 04:23 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

Your response has no logic since it was never based of the topic of discussion in the first place. You spew crap out of you mouth and think it's articulate and intelligent. When really your argument has no merit. If this happens then this could happen theory.  If horse didn't stop to shiat it would of won the race theory.  

 

I understand a person like you, and you choose to create an argument based on some illogical random fallacy that has nothing to do with the topic of point. Good job pointing out to everyone you have a reading comprehension level of a 2nd grader. Now go back to that school that gave you your degree and tell them you want a refund, cause we don't sell crazy here. I'm done with you at this point.  This conversation will not assist anyone with any financial facts.

So I will restate the obvious at this point.  Increase your meds and seek further therapeutic guidance.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 05:15 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

"But if i was postitioned to financialy gain more from it buring down then I wouldn't complain in Obumer and Uncle ben came around with carosine and blow torches." (sic)

 

Let me see if I understand you clearly. If you are Financially positioned to gain from someone else's loss then you shall move to take the gain and screw the morality? Arson happens to be Criminal.

 

If someone steals an item from someone else and offers to sell it at a marked discount to you will you move to take the gain and screw the morality? Fencing Stolen Property happens to be Criminal. It is no different than Arson.

 

If Obama, Bernanke, Geithner, et al. commit crimes against the American People and, as a result, you can realize profits you will position yourself to take the gain? That makes you Criminally Complicit. That is no different than Arson.

 

So you are, in essence, writing that you are AMORAL, without morals. That is Psychopathy. You demonstrate a lack of respect of the Rule of Law by your initial statement which I quoted.

 

Yes you are free to make that choice. Just be aware that there are consequences and that you will be paying for those after you are caught violating the laws.

 

Just who is your Homeowner's Insurance Company?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

Tom, What point was my original post addressing?  Did you ever see anything to do with any criminal activity? Did I say I want my house burned down or my car to get wrecked?  Once you understand the original post then you will see what a waste of time both your response is and mine for having to type this. 

 

Your next post is a good read. I will adress that and I'm done.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 14:15 | Link to Comment dunce
dunce's picture

You disparage gold, guns, and ammo, and talk about putting your money where your mouth is. On the chance that you are right, where are you putting your money?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

I do not disparge gold, guns, and ammo. They are the logical choice of investment in this bizarro market cycle.  I never once said or hinted that I was against those invesments as a percentage of anyones portfolio. 

 

I am well diversified mostly in tangible assest. Very little exposure to any paper investments.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:53 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"We are playing the finance/money game. It's called put your money where your mouth is."

There is more to my life than just "finance & money" and none if it is a game, you fucking imbecile.

Maybe you should see a shrink...there's a few running around here with scissors and their hair on fire...seek them out.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:19 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

Yes , Family & friends are the most important.   But this isn't facebook . I come here to get fact based information on financial topics. Real hard facts that zero hedge is noted for. 

 

I don't want to waste my time reading over and over again,  weeding through the gold biatches, Phuck the bernack and my boat sunk in the lake with all my PM and guns.

Say somehting important with facts behind it and this site will be much better off.

 

 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 02:12 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

No one cares why you come here. If you want facts do the research like the rest of us have already done.

 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 05:29 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

It is all about you, right? 

Narcissism.

Lack of respect for laws.

 

Tell me. What type of Criminal History do you have? 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"I think your basic premise is reversed. I notice that most ZHers do not WISH collapse, but are instead gaping at it in horrified fascination. Recognition is not the same as desire."

A good percentage of posters, most seemingly young, openly call for the big reset here. They know the opportunities available to their parents will be harder to come by or unobtainable for them. Greed envy and hopelessness unfortunately lead to stupid choices. I believe this generation coming of age will end up as slaves in a communist hell which they will initially support, much like the Soviet youth did in 1917.
The hardest lesson to learn apparently is that promises of a free lunch
always omit the real price.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 23:40 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

Now that was a post worth reading.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 02:15 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Please quit projecting onto us what you want.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 05:51 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Many want the Reset in order to unburden the young people with paying for the ecesses of the current generation.

 

First there is little confidence left in the current paradigm. Collapse is a Mathematical Certainty. Retaining the current order serves those currently in power and enslaves many. The current paradigm is a Fraud.

 

In the order that a real Economic Recovery is to happen one must establish trust. Trust is the foundation upon which one can build an economy. One cannot establish trust on a foundation of Fraud. Trust is established when the Rule of Law is applied and those whom have been dishonest are punished for their Criminal Actions.

 

Once trust is reestablished then the Credit Markets can begin anew. This may take many years if not decades.

 

Without a solid foundation of Trust there will not be a sustainable Economic Recovery.

 

The sooner that we face this and reject the current order then the sooner that we can build from the ashes of the dismal failure of today's disaster.

 

That is why some are looking forward to the rejection of the current FRAUD.

 

Our wealth will be withheld from any investment into any FRAUDULENT Economy and will be held in Precious Metals until we see sufficient advancements towards Economic Reforms.

 

We cannot trust for a Return upon our Capitalization of any Market as they are rife with Fraud. People are out to steal what is not theirs instead of produce marketable goods and services. So we merely shrug. We have it and we do not care.

 

In this thread there are people advocating Criminality to realize gains.

 

Well...we read these blogs. We do not hold regular jobs. We have the time to read. As long as that is the prevailing attitude you can expect to see zero growth because we will not risk our wealth.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment brokenclock
brokenclock's picture

I agree with 90% of what you said above. This was fact based and thought provoking.   Now my opinions based on what has happened so far.

 

The fraud will not stop. They are not criminally prosecuting anyone. Small fines, slaps on the wrist. As we have seen over and over. The people controlling the purse strings and regulate the laws have turned a blind eye. Most of the people who vote all these state representatives into position of power have no clue to whats going on. Most of our government servants have lied, failed or mislead us. The scary part is a very high percentage of them were just voted in again.  So does that make it ok for them to keep doing the wrong things over and over.

Until someone with a voice can spread the word  and educate the mass of what is really going on, this will continue. That person need to be charismatic enough to capture the American public and deliver the message so it appeals to the popular culture.  That's when i think we will see some change.

Until that time we just educate the ones who don't know what really is going on.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment SunRise
SunRise's picture

Donsluck -> Perfect!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:43 | Link to Comment IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Exactly! I would have much preferred that we had a default and restrructuring in 2008. we would be well on the way to having things fixed now. However that is not the plan. The plan is to have it fail and for it to look as if it is the fault of the doomers, preppers incompetent politicians and to create infighting within the people. Divided, the people are easy to conquer and easy to enslave under a dictator (who has already put all the necessary faux laws in place making the dictatorship "legal" under the threat of violence).

Now, with the government spend run-rate as high as it is, our ability to be self sustaining as a country becoming less and less through the attrition of people who know how to make things, with the massive transfer of ownership of actual assets to the international criminal banks and their cronies (using fiat trash paper) and the increased number or people dependent on government for all portions of their lives (education, healthcare, food etc) we get weaker and weaker by the day.

It IS intentional. Weaken us. Break us. Then come to our "rescue" with the solution.... after an appropriate number of people have been murdered. It is the way that dictators work to get into power.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:00 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"it's Ben Bernanke's fault." that's the one thing "financially speaking" that ZH has gotten right. It's also total bullshit..."but they are blaming the right guy."

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 02:19 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You can't fix this system, and that is the problem with that thinking. You can only prolong the inevitable.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:52 | Link to Comment zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

Gee your brilliant and so above the rest of us I guess? meh

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

It's actually more akin to finding out that you're dying of cancer and wishing it would just end already, instead of having to suffer until the end knowing there is nothing you can do to change the prognosis.  The will has been drafted, the cemetary plot is paid for, the family is prepared, now how about some slow agony?  No thanks!  Just let it all end already!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

My boat capsized on Crater Lake. Good luck with your metal detector.

BTW, stop being such a kill(dark)joy.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:00 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

All the fed is doing is delaying the final days and when it comes to the markets it will be nasty.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:57 | Link to Comment SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture

Can someone that is tech savvy please upload that few second clip of Santelli squeezing the toothpaste and upload it to youtube?  That needs to go viral.  I almost fell out of my chair laughing.

+1,000,000 if someone can loop that little bit for a solid minute or two with some techno music in the background.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:00 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

NONE of our economic problems have been solved.  

NO ONE of consequence has gone to jail.

This will all end very badly, there is NO EASY WAY out of the box.  Prepare!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

'nuff said....

"We are in our sixth year since the US officially went into recession and yet...we are still in crisis management mode."

Yep.  Green Shoots, Europe's healed, China's on a growth path, 9,273,388 1/2 jobs have either been saved, created or pulled out of thin air, the government is making massive investments with its revenues, freedom is in the air and democracy is taking hold globally thanks to the All Sorts of Springs and intervention of American Exceptionalism, the government multiplier is phenomenally large and the debt matters not whilst we hope for an Alien Invasion to prod us to do more because so far it ain't been enough and there is no inflation.
Don't worry be happy.
BTFD

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:18 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

... and Obama's out shooting skeet.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mag-pushes-fake-picture-obama-skeet-...

Or maybe that's a photo of him knocking off a liquor store in Anacostia.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Oh, not that kind of skeet.

That picture/story is being floated to give him cover on gun control.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

So, knuckles, are you saying that we'll be prodded when the Aliens get here.

Will that be cattle prodding or just having an elbow to the ribs.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:31 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Just a moment's deep intellectual reflection upon Paul Krugman's proposed solution to the heartache of psoriasis and economic malaise.  Why the Great Economist hisself stated publicly that possibly the single most important event that might fuel the whole entire world economy would be an alien invasion.  Not the gardener kind, the anal probe kind.
I mean, he gets more press than me, Noble style awards, so I must needs think hard and long of his proposals.
For the good of mankind.
After all, we all should be doing God's work.  It is too important to leave it to Goldman, alone.

I have thus put forth my beneficial munificent suggestion for the day.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:51 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Need to upload Santelli's video played backwards for Ben and Timmy

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Look close...

they put the clay on the ground and yell "PULL".

 

Obama sez, "Hey! This IS fun".

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:32 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Is that a golf glove in his pocket?
Just sayin'.....

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 02:27 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

There's actually a skeet range in the backyard of the White House. Reagan had it installed.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:11 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

Yep. There is an exit, maybe even more than one. It's just no one wants to go through it, since it means the end of free shit, end of the fed, possibly the end or reformation of the country. The loons that keep things running at the moment think somehow the end of freedom will fix this, when it just makes it that much more messy.

Long food and shelter.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Why do I have the feeling that several "emergency legislation" bills have already been written and are waiting in someone's desk drawer waiting for the right circumstances to be introduced at 11pm to be passed and signed by 2am? And none of the bills are good for the American people.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:12 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

I think they're mostly executive orders, some of which have been around for a long, long time.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Food. check

Water. check

Bearings. OMG I forgot bearings!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:01 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That goes without saying.

If you have a Hyundai or Kia, gmail me!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:57 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There is a plan to exit Rick, and yes it will be messy...it's called war.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Landotfree
Landotfree's picture

It's the liquidation of the unfunded liabilities walking around i.e. war is used as a tool to speed up the liquidation process.  

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

"If my answers frighten you then you should cease asking scary questions."
        -Jules

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

She cried MOAR... MOAR MOAR MOAR MOAR MOAR!

~~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdphvuyaV_I

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I cry for MOAR 7.62 x 39...  But then, I am getting old...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, there's a lot "better" version of that song!

http://www.vh1.com/video/misc/865497/miley-cyrus-performs-rebel-yell.jhtml

I dare ya to watch all of this. It's Teh Funnay.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

OK. I'm officially old.  And get off my lawn.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

GET. OFF. MY. LAWN.

~~~

A few punctuation changes... But the EFFECT is still the same...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:39 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Did Hanna Montana become Hanno Montano?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

I would love to have Ben Bernanke explain the endgame and when he will achieve it.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

His minions just published that paper:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds/2012/201256/201256pap.pdf

Basically, it says 'One of these years, we're gonna dump $1.5 trillion of agency and MBS paper ... and nothing bad is gonna happen.'

My plea to the authors: share the purple microdot, dudes. We'd like to trip balls too.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

god, remember that stuff?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 01:12 | Link to Comment hairball48
hairball48's picture

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment BigSkyBear
BigSkyBear's picture

"Soft Landing" - got it. (acKK!)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:28 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

More reasons to dump the US dollar. 

As nations and people loose confidence in a Ponzi-scam called the Federal Reseve Bank and the US dollar.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:23 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

machineh said:

Basically, it says 'One of these years, we're gonna dump $1.5 trillion of agency and MBS paper ... and nothing bad is gonna happen.'

My plea to the authors: share the purple microdot, dudes. We'd like to trip balls too.

I heard they've got a line on some outtasight Stress Test blotter.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

PSST:  They don't give a fuck.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:01 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Groundhog day comes to mind. Wake me when something actually happens

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment besnook
besnook's picture

rick has not been fired yet because he has been rendered harmless even though he is right.

the fed will back off qe to infinity and beyond when the banks can be legitimately considered solvent. while that cannot legitimately happen very soon the cbs are getting impatient(thanks, abe) and the great speeder upper will be implemented soon. war. what is it good for? bailing out insolvent banks. say it again.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:09 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Two things that I think are wrong with your assumptions.....one the Bankers will never say they are solvent...they have it very very good right now...why stop it...they are making money....lots of  it...secondly when the Fed stops...the debt will be 25 trillion or more......and if interest rates go up 1 basis point we are broke...so its to the wall....its keep the ship going until it sinks....and it will...soon the world will quit trading with us...at least with dollars....and will dump our dollars...how....buy buying things.....commodities..companies...lands....PM´s...hell countries..but they will dump the dollar...I would...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:47 | Link to Comment besnook
besnook's picture

i think the hubris has caught up with them. they(the banksters) are thinking they will just pass the baton when the time comes to pass the baton but they think they will be passing the baton to one another(western banking). the fact is japan has been wise enough to keep their banking system mostly independent. china's system is independent and india's banking system is an enigma but seems independent. the asian banks are consolidating into an interchangeable(currency wise) association independent from western banking(the fucking jew) as a means of mutual protection and solidarity. that is the real threat to western banking. the west is broke and broken. the real and huge opportunity is an asia.

the west is already at war from the atlantic, across africa and the middle east all the way to the borders of russian and china. it is literally a matter of days before the final showdown. asia has plenty of time. the west is running out of time. iran will be the blasting cap at the end of the long fuse which began burning on 9/11.

the banksters have never just given in to the next empire. they will fight with your blood and labor until you are dead and exhausted.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:01 | Link to Comment TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Banksters do fight with our blood and labor but we can't be dead and exhausted. Already exhausted, dead not yet.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:09 | Link to Comment besnook
besnook's picture

you will be either dead or exhausted, hence, dead and exhausted. a few people have to be kept alive to begin milking their teats again.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:44 | Link to Comment joego1
joego1's picture

Maybe some american Taliban terrorists will hunt their dog asses down and send them to their maker. Saw it in the movies once.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment flyingpigg
flyingpigg's picture

I can't wait for the moment Santelli will show us what will happen if the Sh1t hits the fan!

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

There's a Mythbuster's episode for that.

Andi it ain't pretty.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Flaming Ferrari
Flaming Ferrari's picture

Exit? Really? We will all be way up in that great hedge fund in sky before there is any exit.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

 

 

"If you can't get the toothpaste back in the tube,

then use it as a lube."

old Chinese proverb

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:38 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

That oughta be a set of Burma Shave signs in China.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

It's not fucking toothpaste Bernanke's using on the middle class...

 

 

It's fucking KY ass cream with glass shards.

Step in front of a train Bernanke you fucking wealth destroying fuck.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

His employers love him. 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

What does he mean by Fed exit?  If the Fed exits, then interest rates will rise and the first thing to get blown up will be their balance sheet.  The only thing the Fed can exit is their existence.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

The interest rate on the burgeoning Federal debt can not be allowed to return to historical levels for obvious reasons, and the steady transfer of the nation's wealth to the banksters and their overseers cannot be allowed to be interrupted by anything other than the complete collapse of the U.S. economy. There are no additional degrees of freedom for Fed policy other than increasing the pace toward the very end of the play. This IS the end game, bitchez.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Amazon misses....On top and botom line and it's up 6% after hours.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Rearranging Dec...
Rearranging Deckchairs's picture

yeah saw that too. WTF ?  And it was down in the normal hours and then gained it all back in the afterhours announcement. Someone explain to me what the f is going on?

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

S&P 1565.10 or bust.

'Record high' = new jobs.

That's what Ben told me last night, with scotch on his breath.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:30 | Link to Comment Rearranging Dec...
Rearranging Deckchairs's picture

So who cares that earnings are down if revenue is up. I guess there going to make it up on volumne /sarc

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:06 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

The volumes are way down...that is another big red flag for me.....the daily volumes....way down...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:57 | Link to Comment Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

Just watch CNBS tonight and they will have all your answers.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

More free shit.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I keep offering my shit for free and nobody wants my shit. What's the fuck is up with that shit? I know I take a lot of shit from this place.. Ah fuck it I don't give a shit.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Ain't that the shits.

(BTW. FD. I didn't know Jack Shit, either.)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Right, what a load of bollocks.

If the Fed stops printing now, at this stage, I can say in all honesty the Queen of England will come on live TeeVee and give her son charles a blow job.

Just keep your eye on CNBC or Fox or summit.  Its due any time soon I promise.  And to top it off I wouldnt put money on it that the filthy old cow hasnt done it anyways.  In-bred cunts.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Inthemix96 said:

Right, what a load of bollocks.

If the Fed stops printing now, at this stage, I can say in all honesty the Queen of England will come on live TeeVee and give her son charles a blow job.

You're right, it'll never happen. Her royal highnesty would never do something like that on the telly. On a shortwave radio broadcast on the Beeb's world service, perhaps, but not the telly.

And to top it off I wouldnt put money on it that the filthy old cow hasnt done it anyways.  In-bred cunts.

Rather fond of family traditions, she is.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment mdtrader
Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment ReptilianSlaveMaster
ReptilianSlaveMaster's picture

No wonder the market has had such a severe sell off this week, haven't felt like this since 2008.. looks like weve probably hit another multi year low, JUST BTFD AND WATCH CRAMER YOULL MAKE MORE MONEY THAT WAY....

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

15 minutes...

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment thepigman
thepigman's picture

The DUMBFUCKS at the Fed keep rebuilding on sand:

 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:48 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Whatever. Try to stay on topic.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:26 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

How can you not love Santelli. 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I do, but in this particular clip, he shows a little bit of delusion. He actually asked "who watches CNBS?" He answered "everybody!"

YEAH, RIGHT! Get off your cloud Rick, everybody avoids watching CNBS if at all possible. It's nothing but paid advertisement anywho.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:36 | Link to Comment enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

financial matters are trivial.  when interest rates rise, the defaults start then dollar collapses and inflation takes off. the working poor aren't all lazy or stupid. they know the system is bogus and there ain't much hope. once the violence starts riots looting rampage.  no saftey on the street national guard stores empty martial law. 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Federal Reserve and it minions have the dollar devaluing train at full throttle headed to a currency crisis.

Japan is ahead. We will see Japan hit first.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment AgAu_man
AgAu_man's picture

Anyone else out there with Crisis Fatigue? Wondering if a good night's sleep (like the sheep) may not be nice for a change?

Unplug from TV and www for a week. Come back refreshed and with sense of humor, before The Sky Falls for the fifth time on a given day. ;-)

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:49 | Link to Comment bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

I'm disappearing the month of February.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:33 | Link to Comment Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

I have six weeks of vacation and ten holidays to burn this year, my new boss is gonna hate me. I can't wait for golf season.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Herkimer Jerkimer
Herkimer Jerkimer's picture

'

'

'

Yeah, crisis fatigue.

 

I wish it would just come already!

 

"Crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you have thought." MIT economist Rudiger Dornbusch

 

•J•
V-V

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment tnquake
Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

ROFLMAO!

"...toothpaste back in the tube, much less with the stripes..."

Exactly.

And the FED is brushing bankers teeth with it, and letting our kid's and grandkid's rot.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

Like Greenspan, Bernanke will leave soon. He will leave a legacy of trajedy with no consquences. Greenspan is collecting a pension and fees for destroying the economy Stanley Fisher, a very smart man, just announed that he is jumping ship. There will be more central banker defections as the year goes by. Bernanke will soon wake up from his drunken behavior, take a job at Princeton and live off Uncle Sam until the end of his days. I wish that was today.

 

I know an elderly man that committed suicide last week:  " I depleted his retirement over the last four years. I did everything right. What did I do to deserve this? I cant bear the thought of spending my days in a shelter. What will happen to my dog?"

Here's what he did wrong. He wasn't a banker. He wasn't the ilk that lives on the Upper East side of nyc. He believed in the system and the rule of law. These things are for suckers now.

I'm ashamed to be an American.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

.."Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under" - HL Mencken

I apologize to my kids for leaving the world in a mess like this.

The worst thing to me is in seeing their future- sometimes I wish I could just turn on the tube and ignore it.

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

Like Greenspan, Bernanke will leave soon. He will leave a legacy of trajedy with no consquences. Greenspan is collecting a pension and fees for destroying the economy Stanley Fisher, a very smart man, just announed that he is jumping ship. There will be more central banker defections as the year goes by. Bernanke will soon wake up from his drunken behavior, take a job at Princeton and live off Uncle Sam until the end of his days. I wish that was today.

 

I know an elderly man that committed suicide last week:  " I depleted his retirement over the last four years. I did everything right. What did I do to deserve this? I cant bear the thought of spending my days in a shelter. What will happen to my dog?"

Here's what he did wrong. He wasn't a banker. He wasn't the ilk that lives on the Upper East side of nyc. He believed in the system and the rule of law. These things are for suckers now.

I'm ashamed to be an American.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

give up your passport and move

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

Move where? The US used to be the shining beacon of individual liberty and economic freedom for the whole world. This is it, man. The second dark ages are coming, and a whole lot sooner than anybody thinks.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 19:17 | Link to Comment zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

More and more people are suffering - the elderly are treated like dogs and the govt' doesn't give two shits about the public. These are hard times for many and it just keeps getting worse.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment Kingkongballs827
Kingkongballs827's picture

PVC Gun Burial Tube. Holds 3 long rifles Ak47, SKS, AR15 plus ammo and gold & silver. Check it out here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160965515323?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

 

 

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:33 | Link to Comment joego1
joego1's picture

Thats pretty cool but if you can't make one yourself it most likely won't be of any use to you anyway.

Tue, 01/29/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment rhinoblitzing
rhinoblitzing's picture

How about the people in their 40's - 50s?

The elderly lived in the best time of this empire, if they played their cards right, the majority of them have thier house paid off, have atleast one pension, SSI, Medicare, and possibly much more....

Why all this pitty for the elderly and the children - the sandwich generation that has depleted it's savings, forced to re-engineer  themselves and going back to school to get trained for jobs that either don't exist, or don't pay but a fraction of what was normal pay not that long ago  (and of course these jobs do not have benefits).

Yes it's hard times for many - but look at the seniors and means test them before you feel sorry for them. It's most likely their children struggling on the edge. Many seniors have this attitude that it is all owed to them and who cares where it comes from - to hell with anyone that might show them the economic facts. 

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