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Peter Schiff & Doug Casey On Gold, Investor Cluelessness, And The "Escape From America" Plan

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In just under 30 minutes, Peter Schiff and Doug Casey muse on many facets of the crumbling edifice of the status quo that is our current world.

From Gold's relatively imminent rise to $5,000 and beyond, to investor ignorance of reality, Casey & Schiff swing from discussions of the US as political entity going forward to 'escape from America' plans for personal and wealth assets, and the realization that the biggest casualty (of US indebtedness), aside from individual liberty, is the value of the dollar - as taxing the middle class is unpopular with both parties - leaving only one route for the government - the inflation tax. Owning gold, silver, and foreign assets is preferred and while the rest of the world is also printing, the US is likely to beat them all.

People "are clueless with respect to the true state of the global economy," with regard to inflation, fiat currencies, and specifically what will happen to the dollar. The conversation is wide-ranging and absolutely must-see as they remind market-watchers that "the whole thing is artificial," as you can't just keep printing money and monetizing debt without the dollar imploding with monetary policy descending (along with its trillion dollar coin) into 'Three Stooges' comedy.

The conversation weaves to some endgame discussions which bring Peter to discuss his father, who he sees as a political prisoner, and his views on the future...

"the biggest change that is coming to the global economy is a realignment of global living standards."

There is something here for everyone...


 

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Wed, 01/30/2013 - 21:58 | 3201030 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Physical gold and silver and guns to protect them, that's what it is all about.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:03 | 3201041 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

What does the world look like when gold is 5000?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:04 | 3201048 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

With any luck- you won't have to wait long to find out.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:19 | 3201098 economics9698
economics9698's picture

I love Schiff, he gets it right almost 100% of the time.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:30 | 3201136 Cdad
Cdad's picture

As for Doug Kass, whatever he says, you can discount it very quickly.  His passion is...for rent only.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:05 | 3201221 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Casey's (other) passions include polo and cigars.
I've also spent some of my money on wine and song
(and squandered the rest).

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:32 | 3201142 Facemelt
Facemelt's picture

except the part about making money for his clients.  not sure that's ever happened.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:45 | 3201166 ACP
ACP's picture

Oddly enough, in this bullshit manipulated market, that's probably true. The Bitchez That Be will cram down the price of PMs as long as they can until THEY decide it's the right time to move in.

FUCKERS.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:44 | 3201494 Gmacks
Gmacks's picture

As a client and a friend of Peter I can tell you that's not true at all.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:08 | 3201553 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I like Peter.  Caset is a bit snarky.  His old man got rich developing land around the beltway of DC thanks to the boom in the govt.  So he benefitted more than most by pst WW2 fiat paper.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:40 | 3202253 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Doug Casey is one of the most entertaining people to listen to. He will tell you what he thinks and never hold back. He is absolutely awesome. His latest book was a great read, highly recommended.

 

There is no contradiction for a libertarian / anarchist to take advantage of and benefit from government stupidity. He obviously still does it when speculating.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:54 | 3201191 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Love watching those old CNBC clips from 05,06, showing all those "laughing fools" belittling Peter as he attempted to warn them of the coming crash. Well - who's laughing now?  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:49 | 3201852 dunce
dunce's picture

Schiff  is just one of many who have been mocked on national TV that time has vindicated, but the schmucks never apologize or even admit that they were wrong. They are only interested in the popular opinion and adopt it as a fashion accessory, the truth is so dull and boring and does not hold the audiences interest. 98% of their show preparation is hair styling and make up, not financial research.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:49 | 3202296 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Say what?  He's like a clock on the wall and right 2 a day by sheer circumstance.  He's been wrong a hell a lot more than he has been right since '08 and done some of his clients a big disservice in the process. 

The only thing Peter Schiff cares about is Peter Schiff.  Seen him speak a couple of times in panels and he doesn't STFU & let others speak. 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:10 | 3201067 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

Like it does now...only with LESS people.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:23 | 3201110 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

necessities are 4x as expensives, luxuries are cheaper. but who can afford them?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:07 | 3201824 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

DEFLATION is occurring on the things you DON'T need while INFLATION is occurring for the things you DO need..... bad sign of what's coming.  

Most people are having a harder time affording the necessities while those with money to spend aren't spending it.

Those living day to day or holding all their savingsd in cash are going to get crushed when they wake up and find out their money won't buy a fraction of what it once did.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 08:48 | 3201948 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture

Those living day to day or holding all their savingsd in cash are going to get crushed when they wake up and find out their money won't buy a fraction of what it once did.

Either you don't do the grocery shopping or you don't look at the register total. It is full blown on, right now and worse by the week. 

"Baritoli" alfredo sauce was 16 oz and the first ingredient was cream, water was third....now water is first and cream is down the list.  Every item in the store is adulterated. I could write a book, but no one seems ready to get out the pitchforks and make multinationals or the FED or the government change on bit.

We are ALL couch critics, and they love us for that.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:07 | 3202126 CPL
CPL's picture

This is just the beginning I'm afraid.  Interesting thought on this.  Mechanised farming in North America disappears after oil touches a certain number.  Completely vanishes.  It's been happening in other countries around the world.  While we bitch about the price of oil right now, for the other 90% of the world, that point of industry fatal energy pricing has already happened.   Wait until the price point settles over 150 a barrel.  I doubt we'll see mechanised military after that point.

Everything we have done is because of cheap energy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21235306

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21202432

 

Both the Greeks and Syrians have taken to hacking down the forests in parkland because of the price of heating oil.  Like locusts they'll flatten the area at the rate they are cutting in about a year.  Economic crisis situations are nothing in comparison to the energy problems that follow them.  Oil > Money.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:17 | 3203718 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Indeed, there's a reason domestic sources of energy long thought to be too expensive to do profitably have had an extremely rapid ramp-up in the last few years in particular.  The petrodollar will soon be dead as a doornail (unless we were to win a war vs. the ASEAN block).  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:58 | 3202099 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Makes a twisted sense, since, as prices go up, you're less likely to buy futilities, hence, those prices go down.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:42 | 3203006 daxtonbrown
daxtonbrown's picture

"DEFLATION is occurring on the things you DON'T need while INFLATION is occurring for the things you DO need..... bad sign of what's coming."

 

That's called Biflation. Here's a whole book about it. http://www.futurnamics.com/biflation.php

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:47 | 3201172 ACP
ACP's picture

Put on your BernankeBlockers sunglasses, and that should be a good indication.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:16 | 3201252 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Gold is going to 5k, but you won't want to look out your window. Or walk down the street unarmed.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:21 | 3203722 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

I think it depends on the implementation.  For example, they could peg the dollar at $20K/ounce, and it wouldn't necessarily cause the price of everything else to run like you would think.  In fact, I would recommend they do this, if for no other reason than to provide some kind of floor on USD valuation.  

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:40 | 3201313 prains
prains's picture

when gold is 5000 will I be able to buy a tank?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:45 | 3201332 Seer
Seer's picture

Yes.  But you won't be able to afford the fuel.

Next question?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:49 | 3201339 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Yeah, but you'll have to build it yourself from within a FEMA camp like Roberto Benigni in 'Life is Beautiful.'

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 02:04 | 3201647 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

lol.

.

Gotta love the witty ZedHed sarcasm(s)...and after reading that fuckin chindick's article - 'lunatic fringe,' i was pissed off again.

.

Carry on...

.

I'm baked.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 07:43 | 3201877 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

What does the world look like when gold is 5000?

A lot better than when it gets to $50,000.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:53 | 3202088 CPL
CPL's picture

It's not what the world looks like at 5000 per oz gold.

 

It's what the world looks like at 500 per barrel oil.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:10 | 3202616 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Milk still costs $4...but instead of a gallon, you get a shot glass.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:12 | 3201078 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

according to Obammy-only mopes cling to guns and religion- he'll cling to other men and cigarettes

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:58 | 3202562 dbTX
dbTX's picture

otto, Obama will be clinging to other people's guns

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:18 | 3202168 pupton
pupton's picture

Yes, but that's not ALL it's about.  You should also have other necessities that will be hard to find or afford during/after a collapse - while you battle or wait for the powers that be to get things running again.  Food, energy, clean drinking water, medicine...aynthing your kids will need, tampons, toilet paper, you know the list...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:26 | 3203752 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Liquor.  Easily understood trade value, durable, has essential uses as well (antiseptic, fire catalyst, sedative, laxative, social lubricant).  By shooters/smaller bottles for greater fungibility.  

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:03 | 3201045 ReptilianSlaveMaster
ReptilianSlaveMaster's picture

The sell off this week was gut wrenching - seems like all the bulls are out and ready for another healthy bull rally to dow 15,000

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:56 | 3202094 CPL
CPL's picture

35000.  15000 won't be around long.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:03 | 3201046 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Bullets are a much better return at this point.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:11 | 3201070 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Yep. Bullets have been the better investment. Just about anything has been a better investment that effing gold stocks.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:11 | 3201071 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

good luck finding them-unless you work for DHS

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:05 | 3201053 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Meh

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:06 | 3201057 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

"the biggest change that is coming to the global economy is a realignment of global living standards."

How about we start at the top.

I don’t want to tax these yahoos … I want moral hazard. The discussion of whether to tax or not is the true great swindle. Boy howdy … talking about a “please … please … Mr. don’t throw me into that briar patch” yelp.

How about we go ahead and untwined those illegal insurance policies aka mutual destruction strategies aka “financial derivatives” aka IOU’s starting at the top and not the bottom. Don’t worry about whether John and Mary Smith are current on their mortgages. When collecting past due invoices you start with the big numbers first!

Point in fact …. without the bailout of AIG, Buffet would be $50 billion lighter. I assure you … he’d much rather fork over a billion or two in taxes than face a bankruptcy judge designating which car he wanted to have on his personal exclusion list.

 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:16 | 3201086 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

Great points. Love the Brer Rabbit reference. You nailed it.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:56 | 3201352 Seer
Seer's picture

I would figure that most of the talking-heads would also take a pretty good bath.

Anyway, you just did what most fail to do: question the underlying premise.  Good on ya!

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:08 | 3201061 BlackMagician
BlackMagician's picture

Mr. Shiff you don't have to explain your call of $5000 gold here...and the future value of the dollar...It's a no brainer...why?...because Americans are so damn stupid. Most still think that the dollar is still backed by gold or silver...so why buy it? Most still think their votes count. Most continue to eat up what the MSM says without question...it's going to be ugly when they figure it out...I gave up on 'em this past Christmas after watching the zombies fight for Chinese made goods while bitching about outsourced jobs.  Now like most ZH'ers...I'm watching the clock...waiting for the real party to start.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:17 | 3201091 dmger14
dmger14's picture

Yep.  Half of me wants a quick collapse starting  tomorrow.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:57 | 3201203 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

I like Schiff, i agree with most of the things he says..

But i always have one question.. he is a man of means, and the philosophical war that he is still fighting has been lost. He is like that jap soldier who was hiding in the caves on a Pacific Island till 1959 waiting for the enemy to come. His father is already in jail. Why is he still in US? Why is financially feeding the government that he fights? There are plenty of countries that will welcome him with open arms. Run, man, run! 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:15 | 3201250 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

I get what you are saying but I think you are overestimating the quality of other countries. This whole world is fucked so maybe Schiff is thinking its better to stay here and educate some people and fight against the state. That's probably the best option for all of us. 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:29 | 3201272 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

I am no Simon-Black-like clown, but i have lived outside of US for last 3 years and have no plans on returning. I thank gods every goddamn day for leaving. I think if you can live without Amerikan Idol and fking cheese wiz you will be fine just about anywhere these days.

But thats just me..

Plenty of places have: 1. Clean Air, 2. Good clean food, 3. Rule of law, 4. Good schools if you have kids, 5. Decent private healthcare. None of these places are super cheap, but hey... paying all the cash to BarakHussein isnt cheap either. 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:45 | 3201329 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

No.  The US is the only option.  2nd Amendment may be taking it on the chin, but nowhere else I'm aware of can you own the modern musket.  That's the dealbreaker for me in considering anywhere else. 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:51 | 3201341 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

I cant argue with that. You are a good man (i am taking a non pc assumption that you are in fact a male of the species). If that is your reasoning it is indeed 100% valid.

Most of the Amerikans i meet abroad tho whinge and complain about lack of little things they have grown accustomed to at home and hence cant imagine living abroad. Most of them dont realize that once the shit hits the fan those will be gone in an instant. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:30 | 3201599 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

I'm glad that you and others are able to live well outside the USA. Unlike the ex-pat Amerikans you speak of, it sounds as though you possess a mindset that allows you to assimilate. Unfortunately for me, and speaking only for myself, that just won't work. Similar to the previous commenter, I have a 2nd Amendment mindset plus a lot of patience. I expect that the quality of living in this country, which is a rare gift that is taken for granted by most who live here, will take a hard turn for the worse sooner than later. A mess has been made, it will get worse, it will eventually be dealt with, after which we will get on with the pursuit of living more fulfilling lives without the want or need of a central planning authority.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:19 | 3202019 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Thanks, Gil, the old US of A is a better place coz of people like you. I hope i am wrong and you will be proven right.. I left not because i dislike the place, but because i love the country for what it was created to be and cant stand watching the attrocities being done to the place.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:56 | 3202538 Jethro
Jethro's picture

Gil, we will get to see how tyrannical the government becomes once it (truly) runs out of money.  The way I see it, we are 1 for 2 right now (win for the Revolutionary War, and a loss in the War of Northern Aggression).  I hope for a peacable solution, and would even welcome an amicable split, but have no faith that it will come to pass.  The good news is, the cultural conservatives (which tend to also be the fiscal conservatives) are generally better equipped to endure a crisis such as the one beginning to manifest.  However, the situation will be brutal and appalling.  It truly will be brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor once again.  Sad times lie ahead for us all I'm afraid.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:34 | 3203791 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Somehow I see life south of the Mason-Dixon being a tad better, though still extraordinarily shitty.  As one of my favorite song lyrics goes:

We're half awake, in a fake empire.

-The National

I think people have a vague understanding that something is terribly wrong, ergo our eagerness to lose ourselves in our portable telephones.  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:24 | 3201586 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Preach it| Ain't just you duud!

There's a whole mess of us gringos what hopped the wire and cut outta Femaville for better parts...and a whole mess more who would like to, but get their heads turned around by the whole phony 'love it or leave it' diatribe.

NorteMerika...you leave cause you love it, and want to see your homeland returned to it's own peeple one day...but that day will be long time comin, and only after a brutal struggle between the sio-nazi usurpers and the pale riders who assembled themselves on the fringes of ZOG's empire to prepare for the long way back...

NorteMerika...you leave because the only way to avoid complicity in the crimes against humanity n nature perpetrated in your name is to resign the whole thing...not the passport bullshit, but the whole enchilada - phony talmudist values and empty consumerist zombie existence...resign from the fallen western lands to reconnect with the core of what made us a great peeple once pon a time. The talmudists want you holed up in some last redoubt perimeter where they can starve you out or drone you down like so much cattle. Don't fall for that phony paradigm...

Get yourselves an your kids outta the pot, take no heed of your fears of the foreign, for it's only in foreign lands now that you'll find a flavor of the forgotten values which we've lost sight of in only a few generations, under the whip of the cabbalist slavemasters. Find the way to a brighter day, afore the lights go out for good in Numenor!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 03:03 | 3201705 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I agree. When I go away and return to Amerika it's a culture shock coming back and easier to see how much of a police state it's become. 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:13 | 3201999 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Yes, i have the same impression. For years before i left i went for work and travel abroad to random corners and always had this uncomfortable unhappy feeling when i would fly back to US..

Thing is, i appreciate the guys like Gil above, who feel the need to stay. I feel i am lucky that i grew up with a mentality of whereever i set my tent for the nite, thats where my home is. Either way, i hope most here will have the luxury of choice before it all properly goes south.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:43 | 3202485 Jethro
Jethro's picture

I've been extremely fortunate in my life.  Every day is a gift.  I got to live abroad in my youth when I was in the Marine Corps (Infantry and Embassy Duty), and you can inevitably find something good about any place on this beautiful planet.  I grew accustomed to having very little in the way of personal belongings.  Whatever fit inside my seabag was the almost the sum total of my possessions.  It is only when I returned, and became immersed in our culture that I began accumulating crap again.  Ultimately, these things are meaningless.  For almost all of my peers, their stuff owns them.  I need to simplify again.

Sadly, I won't be escaping anywhere when things "go south".  Why should I?  I took an oath, that I deem to be perpetually binding.  And, Like my ancestors a hundred and fifty years ago, I won't go looking for the fight, but instead let the fight come to me.  I hope that I live for the sake of my children, and the ones I love.  But if I don't, it's been a great life, and it will be a good day to die. 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:57 | 3201356 2bit Hoarder
2bit Hoarder's picture

i lived in Thailand for 6 months ... if i had ""fuck you" money, i would go back and never return.

 

fricken paradise ... just gotta dodge the occasional tsunami. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:58 | 3202316 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Yeah for a small sliver of the population connected at the top (may 10%).  Rest struggle to make and upward mobility is basically unheard of unless you have the proper family and business connections. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:41 | 3201486 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

My belief is if america collapses no place will be safe because the evil of all two bit dictators will be allowed to try to invade any country with resources 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:00 | 3201816 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

seems we (the u.s.) have the two bit dictators beaten in the last last half century like 24 to 4.  oh, but that's what kept them to single digits.  got it.  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:17 | 3202009 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Hawk, do not confuse liberty and democracy. A non democratic government can give you more economic liberty (Singapore, HK) then the democracy that leads to dictatorship of the shepple (Venezuela)

Make no mistake democracy no longer is equal to liberty. Look at the US for gods sake.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:36 | 3201472 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Hiroo Onoda was hiding out until March '74

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:12 | 3201563 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Perhaps he doesn't want his father to spend the rest of his life in prison without seeing his son. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 04:45 | 3201771 Harrison
Harrison's picture

His father is in federal prison because his father is a scam artist. Don't make it sound like some sort of political persecution over Peter's economic and political beliefs. Irwin Schiff was and is garbage of the lowest order and deserves to rot in prison right next to Madoff for all the pain he's caused. The only difference between those two (Irwin and Madoff) were the strategies they used to con people and the amounts of money they stole -- at least Madoff managed to do a brilliant job at scamming, Irwin just fucked thousands of fools out of a few dollars each.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:17 | 3201835 malikai
malikai's picture

His pops is in prison on tax evasion convictions. He fought the IRS and got crushed by the Leviathon.

His father is a real "American Hero", if there is any such thing.

1. Learn to read. 2. Get lost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 08:11 | 3201903 cabtrom
cabtrom's picture

Fuck you Harrison! War is coming,pick a side asshole!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:45 | 3202279 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

You're the stupidest person on this site, congrats!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:09 | 3201991 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Schiff's stated hope and wish is for sufficient numbers of informed, prepared, and entrepreneurially inclined citizens to survive the coming collapse and help rebuild a country in which free citizens can prosper. 

Seems like a long shot, but I'm glad somebody still gives a st*t. 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:19 | 3201210 economics9698
economics9698's picture

 

Black Swan about 8-10 months, gold $5,000 about 2014, 2015 at the latest.  Inflation is strange, some people are on top of it, some take months.  There will come a time, "crack-up boom" when all realize their money is worthless.  When that happens gold $5,000.

Schiff was off in his timing, people think Bernanke is keeping the market "up" but they have it 180 wrong, the Fed lost control of interest rates in 2008.  People should think of the Fed as not “propping up” the markets but piling cash onto the markets to his favorite banks (owners of the Fed) before the bubble bust.

In other words Bernanke knows the history of bubbles, 5 years, 6.6 max, and knows the bubble will bust, they always do.  He is playing dumb and propagating the "keep markets up" bull shit to the clueless politicians.  What he is doing is throwing as much cash as he can in the allotted time he has before the crash at his owners so that when the crash does occur the owners of the cash will be in a position to buy physical assets. 

Just like the Fed did in 1928 when the goosed the money supply one last time.

Same shit, different decade.

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:06 | 3203930 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

You are stating very accurate information, but I am personally agnostic regarding the nominal USD price of gold.  I think it's generally assumed that some explicit revaluation of the USD is probably coming in the near future, but that could go in either direction.  Maybe an old $1 becomes a new $100.  But, maybe an old $1 becomes a penny.  Gold could be $50/ounce.  Main thought here is that most real assets at this point are owned by either Fedgov or the TBTF.  If they were to suddenly make, say, mortgages, exorbitantly expensive and cause mass default, it would grealy reduce the quantity of citizen property owners.

The good news is that, in this scenario, even at $50, an ounce of gold is still going to be good for a year's worth of food for a family of 4.  There's a reason I've been buying 1/10th ounce increments, even though I can afford about an ounce a month.

Pity those buggers are so small they keep falling through sewer grates.  

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:45 | 3201161 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Anyone watch NPR on TV tonight? Some guest opined he does not understand why consumer confidence plunged since everythig is recovering 'so nicely' ...(to quote hs list) ...'retail, housing, and jobs....all recovering nicely'...he said.

 

Hard to believe the host didn't question this since a few minutes later, Judy Woodruff gets on and says how bad the economy is...worsening by the week....

 

Usually the reporting is not this bad on NPR. Clueless and crappy MSM misreporting to feed the Sheeples.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:49 | 3201441 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Judy Woodruff is an old Nixon hack!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:15 | 3201567 Freddie
Freddie's picture

She is libtard.  TV is for idiots who keep supporting The Matrix.  Nice job sheep.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:13 | 3203961 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Frontline and Bill Moyers general have the agenda of "the crony capitalist system is shit, here's why, ergo, we should have a socialist government", and while I disagree with their "ergo", they are useful in explaining the crony capitalist shit in easy to digest bits and pieces.  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:00 | 3201357 Seer
Seer's picture

I don't hang out watching the clock.  And, I started my own party.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:55 | 3202533 quadcap
quadcap's picture

Nice.   I started my own religion.  The Joyous Church of Loving Reason.  I have Muslim and Christian members, as well as some Jews and Hindus.   The atheists and the Taoists are already on board.   Y'all should start your own religions, it's a great conversation starter, to say nothing of how much fun the Jehova's Witnesses visits become when you have your own agenda.

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:51 | 3201511 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Most still think that the dollar is still backed by gold or silver...so why buy it?"

No, they believe its backed by the US gov't. Note all those "cash for Gold" commericials. People rather spend ever nickel than save for their future. Also note that most of them bought into the housing bubble. Recall the gov't and talking heads telling the public to load up on debt to by housing, or take out home equity loans.

 

"because Americans are so damn stupid"

Yup!

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:11 | 3201073 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

collapse already ! .... i have over 800 rolls of toilet paper stacked & 120 tubes of toothpaste that all expire next month !

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:17 | 3201090 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I've got enough tampons stockpiled to soak up the Red Sea

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:26 | 3201122 Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Even if you glued them to your forehead in the middle of the apocalypse, you still won't get laid.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:47 | 3201171 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

Zorba has a 55 gal drum of vasoline, but that's a Greek thing.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:59 | 3201177 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

sorry, otto. Tampons are out due to Fuki sterilization of half the worlds females. Overies fried and dried up from radiation in the air, pesitcides in the food, antibiotics in the beef, GMO veggies and fruit, etc. (also no more PMS, however).

 

Diapers are "in" with 90% of the 'civilized' world ambling up over 75. ...and 'civilized' people hate pooping and peeing in their pants. Might also consider scooters, lift chairs, rolling walkers and wheelchair cushions. They will sell like hot cakes!

Go Long Diapers is the New Paradigm. I read GS has tons of the stuff (soft cotton diapers) stockpiled (in secret) around the world. They're so sneaky.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:28 | 3201596 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL!  Can they be used in Molotov cocktails or just use an old sock?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 05:25 | 3201803 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

I've got enough tampons stockpiled to soak up the Red Sea

I hope you've got 55 gal drums of Midol to go with that.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:05 | 3201821 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

laughed til i coughed and i think of myself as a feminist.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:13 | 3201074 Monedas
Monedas's picture

I'd like a debate:  Schiff and Casey  vs.  Obama and Bernanke !      A gagged Piers Morgan could monitor the debate .... with ear phones, in a straight jacket and locked in a sound proof booth !

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:14 | 3201085 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

how could Obammy debate without a teleprompter and Shalom Bernank without Dimon's hand up his ass?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:52 | 3201509 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

If you tell a lot of lies you need a teleprompter, Schiff speaks without notes!

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:45 | 3201167 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I would settle for Bob Murphy vs. Kruggybear, for charity.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:31 | 3202429 Jethro
Jethro's picture

Monedas, I get the impression that Piers Morgan is no stranger to a ball gag, and in fact might welcome it.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:16 | 3201087 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

Predictions of a world centering on gold, silver and guns is a defeatist fantasy. How many gun duels can one survive before encountering a faster drawing gunslinger?

Most ZH posters of the gun toting and the gold hoarding variety seem to harbor the illusion they can shoot and kill better than anyone else. In a pinch, are they likely to shoot first and straight while simultaneously eyeballing their gold stash?

Hey gunslingers, give it a rest and think through the consequences of your pet illusion.

Sheesh!

:-/

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:02 | 3201364 2bit Hoarder
2bit Hoarder's picture

damn .. so that USMC sniper training was a waste??!??!

i have a rock on the ground that says "past this point, you are in range" ... about half mile away from my lonely house.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 05:10 | 3201790 Harrison
Harrison's picture

Yeah, you need SEAL training like me. I was in UBT Class 212, where we learned to jump out of B2s at altitude, man. I'll HALO in on top of you and chew your throat out before you can swing that rifle around.

(Damn, 880 yards? I'm only good out to 600. Sad panda here.)

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:08 | 3201825 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

if it's science fiction is it even science anymore?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:33 | 3201467 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Most important thing is not that I am a crack shot, but that I see you first.

If you are moving around, there is an excellent chance of that happening

Also, if I know the terrain and environment and you dont, its also a big advantage

Finally, practice practice practice. Its good for you and its good for the weapon. Better to find out your weapon jams on the range than zombie time

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:31 | 3201602 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1

Most important thing is not that I am a crack shot, but that the zombies approaching me are probably high from smoking crack. 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 02:53 | 3201696 gwar5
gwar5's picture

If you shoot a gun as good as your mouth no one need worry.

 

Defeatist Fantasy: Obama just finished a new $273 Million deep underground bunker expansion under the WH.  http://usahitman.com/obama-wh-bunker/

Play the game: thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r11emn9gXk

 

 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:15 | 3201832 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

They moved the Money Hole from New Mexico to DC - saves transport costs.

http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-know-should-the-government-stop-dum...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 06:19 | 3201837 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

alright.  say it stays a fantasy and one doesn't actually need the guns.  the gold and silver still look hard to beat.  

the electric image of debt money is truly astronomical (trillions and trillions) right?  real interest rates are negative.  the central banks cannot raise interest rates.  institutional investors own little gold or silver or even their miners.

that the central banks have far less gold than they say and that what does exist is rehypothicated/fractionally reserved/whatevered a hundred times at least is just gravy.

where's the defeat?  looks a lot more like the opposite.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:16 | 3201088 GNWT
GNWT's picture

party like it's 1999...

 

with the Silver Liberation Army...

 

at

 

www.ZIRPinUSA.com

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:16 | 3201095 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

enough already.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 08:55 | 3201959 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

GNWT, please, take the hint.  Take it (and the relentless SPAMMING) with you. 

And close the door on your way out. 

Thanks.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:28 | 3201125 daz
daz's picture

but if investors would think the US going to default.. they wouldn't buy.... someone must be buying... oh wait...

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:32 | 3201139 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

US is going hero to zero according to pete, best to be paper poor.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:37 | 3201147 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture

SWEET!  I love videos of 2 old white guys rambling on and on.  You guys really know how to party!

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:50 | 3201181 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Glad you could be here to join us.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 02:37 | 3201685 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Because... Gen Y's know so much?

 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 10:49 | 3202293 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

 

 It's better to stay silent and look a fool, rather than speak and remove all doubt. 

 - Mark Twain

 

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:41 | 3201156 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Peter Schiff's dad is a hero.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:12 | 3201240 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Irwin is a political prisoner for the likes of the following:
http://constitution.org/tax/us-ic/schiff/moltz.pdf

As Casey likes to say, America was an idea
(that no longer survives).

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:04 | 3201375 Seer
Seer's picture

Ask either of these guys if America could have ever been expected to survive perpetual growth.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:48 | 3201164 Joe moneybags
Joe moneybags's picture

Schiff was good, as he sounded nearly identical to Paul Singer, in the later thread.  But unlike Singer who offered no action, Schiff suggested gold, and investing abroad, to protect wealth.  Still, he had his negatives: lack of profanity, lack of Rothchild/Jewish/NWO conspiracy, lack of firearm mention and calm, articulate demeanor.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:54 | 3201640 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Where's Alex jones and that Limey?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:46 | 3201169 franzpick
franzpick's picture

you can't just keep printing money...without the dollar imploding

And the collapse could start any day now, right here at $index 79.24, breaking either 1 year, or much worse, 5 year, technical support, the good news being that dollar-denominated Au will go up $90 to $1770 or so with a 400 pip move to the 5 year index low at 72. YMMV (your math):

http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=DX&p=w1

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 22:57 | 3201201 Floordawg
Floordawg's picture

Just want to say "sawat-dee " to my fellow Zero Hedgers after a few month long hiatus while bailing out of the U.S. and relocating internationally.

Its still early in the new adventure, but everyday I feel stronger that our decision to move was the best choice personally and financially (only adding to strong convictions prior).

I wish all the best to Peter and his father in overcoming the tyranny that the "justice" system has bestowed on his family.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:03 | 3201219 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Keep us updated how it's going Floordawg.

 

BTW, if you run into a little golden-skinned thing named Ping Toy (i think that's her name) in Phuket, tell her "Hello!" for me.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:21 | 3201267 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Congrats and welcome to the club

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 02:32 | 3201680 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Welcome back. I'm going to Asia in few months. Reports from some places there seem better than bug out to Latin America. US IRS doubled the size of their facility in nearby Costa Rica 2 years ago.

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 08:57 | 3201964 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

But if you are not Asian you won't ever integrate completely.
Thailand, Singapore, _________?

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:01 | 3201211 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Central Banks buying so much gold and gubbermints amassing hundreds of thousands of assault weapons....makes me nervous.

Wed, 01/30/2013 - 23:53 | 3201348 mightycluck
mightycluck's picture

love Schiff

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:02 | 3201371 Verum
Verum's picture

Predicting the future using information from the past as filters for your future vision is a common trap that people fall into.  The U.S., U.K, Japan etc are not equivalent to Argentina or Zimbambwe.  The developed world, the western world, is all in a very similiar situation and the heads of state will work together to resolve their issues.  There is more likely to be a forgiveness of debt, a new issuance of common currency basket and tarriffs placed on countries that will not participate in the global monetary movement - thus encouraging involvement if countries want to receive imports at fair prices.  All of that mentioned is much more likely than a meltdown and return to 1920s living.  This will not happen.  Economies and societies advance in the way that we will not go back to a time without air conditiioning or heat or well paved roads or cars.  There is no return to depression standards.  This is not to say that there may be a short term rough patch on the way but the ultimate way forward is one of a cohesive movement to restore/retain and advance the current living standard which will occur at any cost as that is people's main concern, that is, living well and providing for their families.  Get ready for whippy markets and focus on policy evolvement but understand that once the dust settles and the storm passes, all will be well and we will continue under a new monetary regime.  Its just money people, while it is the oil of any economy, it is not the engine or the wheels or the driver, it is an additive that got bad and needs to be switched out in order for the economic and sociatial machine to keep rolling forward. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:13 | 3201403 Seer
Seer's picture

" Its just money people, while it is the oil of any economy, it is not the engine or the wheels or the driver, it is an additive that got bad and needs to be switched out in order for the economic and sociatial machine to keep rolling forward. "

Well, THE problem is that we have been acting as though that "its just money" is that, that it's just money, that it is standalone/self-supporting.  Money has to grow because the environment that it works in is expected to grow: more profits, larger GDP etc etc.  For years we have fudged the very notion of growth, the profits, the GDP, all have been tweaked to appear to be delivering more growth.  BUT!  There's really only one thing that has truly driven rapid growth, and that's fossil fuels.  So, in a way your use of "oil" isn't too far off- it's more likely that today's backing of currencies is going to be tied to something just a tad bit more physical than IOUs, and that might be oil (and or with a combination PMs and other items YTBD).

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:47 | 3204073 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"Predicting the future using information from the past as filters for your future vision is a common trap that people fall into. "

Everyone that tries to predict the future uses information from the past.  You can't know shit ahead of time.  Hence, the accurate statement "you can't predict the future".  Including you, fellow traveller.  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:10 | 3201393 Lendo
Lendo's picture

Schiff is the man and one of my favorite economic commentators.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:14 | 3201407 Douglasnew
Douglasnew's picture

Does anyone on this site ever consider the fact that if Gold goes to $5,000 that the Government will Tax the Crap out of all those Evil and Ill gotten Gains from the Miserly Hoarders Holding the Babaraic Relic? Does anyone actually believe that the Politicians will not get their knarled claws around anything they can in order to redistribute your wealth to the masses to keep themselves in Power? The Powers That Be will paint the non-conformers as self centered, unpatriotic terrorists or worse. Confiscation by Taxation and New Rules in the name of what is best for our Civil Order will become the new new normal.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:21 | 3201436 Northern Lights
Northern Lights's picture

Not if they sell under the table and not if they come up to Canada and sell to Canadians.

I trust the government to catch gold transactions about as well as they do drug deals.

 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:24 | 3201589 August
August's picture

"Not if they sell under the table and not if they come up to Canada and sell to Canadians."

The Canuskistani government, however, just might be coaxed into reporting any US citizens who sell gold in Canada; "common defense perimeter", and all that.  I believe the current rule is that any transaction above C$3,000 requires that a government-issued ID doument be shown. 

The sous la table route remains open, of course.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:18 | 3201574 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Let's see...

you are arguing that the very same government that is essentially owned by the financial elite will, in effect, "tax the crap" out of their benefactors (who own the vast majority of privately held gold)?

Got it.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:30 | 3201600 malek
malek's picture

Does anyone ever consider that as long as "Taxing the Crap out of Gains" results in a rate of less than 100% of the gains, that the owners of gold will still be better off than the ones holding paper dollars?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 02:24 | 3201671 gwar5
gwar5's picture

We know, and they already do. But PMs take $$ out of the system and are hard to track in an underground economy. Land and titled property not so much.

 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 07:10 | 3201859 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

i SUSPECT THE POLITICOS  WILL BE HIDING OUT AT THAT POINT.

$5000 WILL BE A PRICE ON A SINGLE DAY AS IT SHOOTS TO 10K,15K AND THEN 20K.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:42 | 3202061 hapless
hapless's picture

"i SUSPECT THE POLITICOS  WILL BE HIDING OUT AT THAT POINT.

In fact, it would be best not to bring the PMs out of secure hiding until the air is filled with the stench of the rotting apparachtik.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:16 | 3201413 Seer
Seer's picture

How come Schiff doesn't think that the US is currently in recession?  Also, how does he get that Europe is settling down and that it might hold this way for a couple more years?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 05:21 | 3201799 saulysw
saulysw's picture

Yes. Almost all of what he said rang true -- but those two ideas not so much.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:19 | 3201415 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

prisoner number 08537-014

aka  Irwin Schiff

is a political prisoner as his son Peter says:

author of the following books

  • Federal Mafia: How It Illegally Imposes and Unlawfully Collects Income Taxes (1992) The Great Income Tax Hoax: Why You Can Immediately Stop Paying This Illegally Enforced Tax (1985)
  • How an Economy Grows and Why It Doesn't (1985)  
  • The Social Security Swindle: How Anyone Can Drop Out (1984)
  • How Anyone Can Stop Paying Income Taxes (1982) -
  • The Kingdom of Moltz (1980)
  • The Biggest Con: How the Government Is Fleecing You (1977)

The Kingdom of Moltz is excellent

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:24 | 3201443 rlouis
rlouis's picture

Peter - thank you for keeping the US competitive spirit alive and giving the French some competition in being the most COMPLETELY BROKE.

Also appreciate your calling B Bernanke the WORST Fed Head ever. 

Best wishes to your father.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:40 | 3201485 MaxThrust
MaxThrust's picture

Nice to see an interviewer who asks questions and actually lets the interviewee answer them instead of constantly interupting the interviewee and pushing their agenda.

Good interview, good information

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:43 | 3201492 MaxThrust
MaxThrust's picture

..

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:44 | 3201498 UTICA CLUB XX PURE
UTICA CLUB XX PURE's picture

Maybe we should pay the camera man a bit more. Weird angles. Love PS though... Still can't believe CT didn't elect him...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 00:54 | 3201507 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture
[Australian] Home prices fall for second straight year

 

"It is clear that the previous strong value growth conditions to which many home owners became accustomed of recent years are well and truly behind us."

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-02/home-prices-fall-for-second-straig...

 

PMs still beat a house as an "investment."

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 01:01 | 3201539 Seer
Seer's picture

Well... my home sits on Ag property.  I have to live somewhere.

I don't see PMs as an "investment," I see them as a store of wealth.  My Ag land is my "investment," as I fully expect it to return value in the form of producing food (which those with PMs can trade for).

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 05:39 | 3201809 caerus
caerus's picture

AMZN some of the worst price movement i have ever seen

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 08:09 | 3201902 Gold Dog
Gold Dog's picture

Let us assume that a guy had enough money to go pretty much anywhere.

Where would that be?

I see posts from people who say they are already living abroad but they seem quite quiet on where that is.

Just asking.

Dog

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 09:45 | 3202066 hapless
hapless's picture

Nor do they say much about where they keep their gold buried.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:43 | 3202484 vegas
vegas's picture

Bank in Bermuda, Belize, and/or Panama. Live in Panama, Colombia, Chile, Peru, Costa Rica, and/or the Caribbean. Keep your gold in Bermuda and some very close by in a safe. Always have a "Plan A" and "Plan B"  exit strategy when SHTF. And finally, get good, reputable offshore attorneys. Never keep anything of value in Amerika; Chalky and his pals will eventually confiscate your wealth.

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