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Labor Unions Finally Read Obamacare Fine Print, Realize Costs Set To Spike, "Turn Sour" On Obama

Tyler Durden's picture





 

It is a well-known fact that nobody in Congress ever reads, or even skims, any law, and especially not the fine print, it passes until long after it has been enacted into law. It appears the same is just as true for the biggest pillar of support for the Obama administration: America's labor unions, whose liberal vote every election is instrumental to preserving the outflow side of America's welfare state. As it turns out, it was the same labor unions who enthusiastically supported the primary accomplishment of the Obama administration in the past 4 years, Obamacare, only to realize, long after it has become reality that, surprise, their healthcare plan costs are about to go up. And, as the WSJ colorfully summarizes, they are now "turning sour."

From WSJ:

Union leaders say many of the law's requirements will drive up the costs for their health-care plans and make unionized workers less competitive. Among other things, the law eliminates the caps on medical benefits and prescription drugs used as cost-containment measures in many health-care plans. It also allows children to stay on their parents' plans until they turn 26.

So what are the Unions' demands to offset what they only now realize will push their overall costs higher? What else: Moar!

To offset that, the nation's largest labor groups want their lower-paid members to be able to get federal insurance subsidies while remaining on their plans. In the law, these subsidies were designed only for low-income workers without employer coverage as a way to help them buy private insurance.

 

Top officers at the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, the AFL-CIO and other large labor groups plan to keep pressing the Obama administration to expand the federal subsidies to these jointly run plans, warning that unionized employers may otherwise drop coverage.

But, but, they can't - that's the whole point, or didn't they read that part too? Doesn't matter - to them it is now unfair, nay "unacceptable":

"We are going back to the administration to say that this is not acceptable," said Ken Hall, general secretary-treasurer for the Teamsters, which has 1.6 million members and dependents in health-care plans. Other unions involved in the push include the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union and Unite Here, which represents service and other workers.

So now that even the unions have understood that Obamacare is one big tax, maybe it is time to reevaluate its arrival at a time when the already strapped US consumer sees taxes rising, and has their savings extinguished.

Employers and consumers across the country will see big changes under the health law, which goes into full effect next year. Insurers will no longer be able to deny coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Most individuals will be taxed if they don't carry insurance, and employers with at least 50 workers will face a fine if they don't provide it. About 30 million Americans are expected to gain insurance under the law.

 

John Wilhelm, chairman of Unite Here Health, the insurance plan for 260,000 union workers at places including hotels, casinos and airports, recalls standing next to Barack Obama at a rally in Nevada when he was a 2008 presidential candidate.

 

"I heard him say, 'If you like your health plan, you can keep it,' " Mr. Wilhelm recalled. Mr. Wilhelm said he expects the administration will craft a solution so that employer health-care plans won't be hurt. "If I'm wrong, and the president does not intend to keep his word, I would have severe second thoughts about the law."

Wait, no, you mean that in order to get your vote a career politician... lied? Say it isn't true.

So what is an administration that has pandered to every demand for welfare increases ever, to do?

For the Obama administration, holding firm against union demands for subsidies risks alienating a key ally. Giving unions a break, however, would not only increase the cost of the law but likely open the door to nonunion employers in a similar situation who would demand the same perk.

 

Obama administration officials declined to answer questions about whether union-employer plans could qualify for subsidies under the law. A spokesman for the Treasury Department, which will administer the subsidies as tax credits, said: "These matters are the subject of pending regulations. We will continue to work with employers, workers, consumers and businesses to implement the health-care law."

 

Under the health law, households earning up to 400% of the poverty level—$92,200 for a family of four last year—will be eligible for tax credits to offset the cost of private insurance. The less a household earns the more generous the subsidy.

And while the political wranging is about to get heated, Unions suddenly find themselves facing a very existential problem:

The Sheet Metal Workers International Association helped push for passage of the health law. Mr. Beall said he still believes everyone should have health insurance, but worries the law is undermining the union's ability to offer coverage.

 

"If we're not offering our members insurance and pension, why would you want to be union?" he asked.

 

The International Union of Operating Engineers Local 150 of Countryside, Ill., which represents construction workers and insures about 65,000 people, is also examining whether some lower-earning workers would eventually be better off leaving the union-sponsored plan and instead getting federally subsidized insurance.

 

"I've told my members, as this evolves, your health care will not look like it does today," said James Sweeney, president and business manager of the local. "I have to cut it back."

What is most disturbing is that even the unions are starting to understand that there is really no such thing as a free lunch:

Central Blacktop Co., a Hodgkins, Ill., road builder that employs members of operating engineers Local 150, provides health benefits by paying $13.45 per hour that each member works, said Joseph Benson, the company's chief financial officer. That averages nearly $19,000 a year per worker.

 

"Ultimately any increase in expense to the fund is going to come from us down the line," he said.

It will, but not today. Today, the agenda is to just get more.

 


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Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:35 | Link to Comment Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

So they're having an "Oh Shit!" moment

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Moarward, comrades.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:45 | Link to Comment trav777
trav777's picture

these freakin idiots....lol

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:10 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Bait and switch.

Obamacare is of, by, and for the healthcare insurers.  It is designed to remove competition and assure profits for healthcare insurers, exactly as the Federal Reserve Act does for the big banks.

HIPAA was not about privacy for the patient.  It is soley to guarantee healthcare insurers access to preexisting conditions.

None of this will change until bribery campaign contributions are reformed.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:11 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

America's a welfare state for the rich criminals, not slaves laboring for the union. However it is sad that the unions are run by incredibly stupid individuals that see Obama as being less than the pure evil bastard that he really is.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Atlas_shrugging
Atlas_shrugging's picture

This is nothing that a trillion dollar coin can't fix

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:18 | Link to Comment The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

This is what happens, you stupid fucking communists.  You need to pay communism with capitalism... the fruits of your labor go to other people, you fucking idiots.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Crazed Weevil
Crazed Weevil's picture

Aren't 'Useful Idiots' so....useful

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:27 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

What's wrong with the welfare state?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_q_Y0U1QcI

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Whenever you get hundreds of players and interest groups together on a massive project like Obamacare, there are bound to be different agendas.  But probably the hidden agenda of key policy wonks deep in the process was to blow up the system and force a single-payer alternative like every other rich country has.  So when you look at irrational aspects of Obamacare, keep in mind that it was designed to fail.  It was designed to be a sort of bomb driven into the middle of the current (very expensive and idiotic) system.

You gotta give them credit -- the politics are too complex to get from here to there any other way.  The bomb in the birthday cake approach was the only possible one.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:50 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

So when you look at irrational aspects of Obamacare, keep in mind that it was designed to fail.

Really, what irrational aspects, exactly?  If you are the health insurers, Obamacare is a thing of beauty and rational perfection. 

Read The Creature from Jekyll Island, and everytime it says big bank think big healthcare insurer; everytime is says Federal Reserve Act think Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

"We have to pass the law so you can find out whats in it"

~Old Hag

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"We have to vote for this guy to see how he is going to fuck us in the ass"  Richard Trumka, President of the AFL-CIO

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:52 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

"If I'm wrong, and the president does not intend to keep his word, I would have severe second thoughts about the law."

As if it matters if you support it now or not.  Besides they know you have nowhere else to go.  They are the wagon you've decided to hook up to, enjoy the ride, fuckers.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

"Larry, this is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass!"

 

--Walter Sobchak.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Certainly no one believes that Obamacare will reduce health care costs. What some believe is that THEIR cost of health care could be reduced by someone else paying for it.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:40 | Link to Comment object_orient
object_orient's picture

Exactly correct

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:50 | Link to Comment tbone654
tbone654's picture

[shouted repeatedly while smashing a car with a crow bar]
Walter Sobchak: This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 23:04 | Link to Comment Rentier
Rentier's picture

this line is almost funny,  "For the Obama administration, holding firm against union demands for subsidies risks alienating a key ally."

 

WTF does Obama care if he alienates them or not?!  Not like he can get re-elected again anyway.  Screw them and get the insurance lobby's money on the back end.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

One "irrational aspect" that comes to mind is the fact that nobody will be able to afford coverage. 

Most employees have no idea how much health insurance or health care itself actually cost.  They know how much they themselves pay, but have no idea that their employer is paying an equivalent of a quarter to a half again of their entire salary for health insurance.  Hgh-Deductible/Low-Premium plans are ridiculous, too.  I've got a $10,000 deductible Individual Policy for myself and two adolescent kids, and that costs nearly $500/mo. in premiums.  Of course, when my daughter went in for her 7th grade Volleyball sports physical, and got a couple of regular vaccine booster shots, the raw bill was $980.00.  Because Minnesota forces coverage of "preventive" medical, my payment was $180.00.  Where did the other $800.00 go?  I'm nowhere near hitting our deductible.

In other words, the finance of the whole thing has become as irrational as anything else in our financial funhouse.

I can afford our payments, and to keep the deductible's-worth in an HSA.  Most people can't.  Most small businesses will find it far cheaper to pay a $2000.00 penalty and end their provision of health insurance as a benefit, than pay some $18,000 a year in family coverage for an employee; unless they get their employees to cover $16,000 of that cost?  Who making the median of around $35,000 gross can afford that?

So I tend to agree that, while the insurance companies and health care corporations wrote this monstrosity, they never gave a thought to what it would look like when they got what they wished for.  It's a "poisoned chalice," in the odious cliche.  They get to have their bubble alright, but the crash is written right into it.  Then we have no choice but either write off another massive pile of unpayable debt, or to socialize it.  I'm guessing the next Republican President opens Medicare to everyone, as a "Job-Saving" measure, and every corporation not in the insurance or health care business is ecstatic, and it's the most popular political move of the past 50 years.  It has to be a Republican who does it, because a Democrat would be called a Commie for doing it.  Just as Clinton could do to welfare what Reagan could not, and Obama can do to the Bill of Rights what GWB could not, etc.  It's nothing to do with the "core values" of the politicians as they're all the same; it has to do with the brand image.  Democrats are Socialists who hate the rich, so they can do whatever the FIRE sector wants with impunity.  Republicans are crypto-fascists who only care about their 1% pals, so they can actually give away money to keep the masses pacified.  It's all brand marketing.

Since Americans don't seem to understand the difference between Health Insurance and actual health care, and they have no idea how much either one costs, we get this.  A olly-olly-ox-in-free period for the insurance companies to loot the economy until it collapses and we finally go to single-payer after money is already gone. 

Just my prediction.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:08 | Link to Comment JayKitsap
JayKitsap's picture

I think Ocare requires the company to insure the worker, but not the family.  Wait until that surprise hits when the employer reduces everyone to individual unless the worker wants to pony in $5K.

This year W-2's show the cost of employer paid heathcare.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:12 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

"This year W-2's show the cost of employer paid heathcare."

Well, it's about damned time.  I haven't gotten a W-2 in years, but it always infuriated me how uncurious most employees are about that.  The collapse of this monstrosity has been a long time in the making.  It's amazed me how far down the road this shambles has made it.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment PeaceLover
PeaceLover's picture

I don't know the only guys that tells the truth get shitted on

Ron Paul and Ralph Nader

Pretty sure this whole deal is a give away to Insurance Companys

friction 10% 25% or more to handle our money. Stupid Bet
kind like a Bank what do they create, do the make anything?
Do they make new products?
Do they grow food?

WAIT THEY MAKE MONEY FROM NOTHING
THEY GET TO BET ON THE STOCK MARKET WITH BAIL OUT MONEY

GIVE ME A BILLION A .001% INTEREST AND I CAN KILL THE MARKET!

If you have a big government and we do WAY TO BIG
The only thing they should be involved in is Single Payer Health Care.
Or at the least Medicare for all, and check the prices!

Not much chance

 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

 I've got a $10,000 deductible Individual Policy for myself and two adolescent kids, and that costs nearly $500/mo. in premiums.

I believe that deductibles will be capped at $2,000 starting 2014, and totally obviating the benefit of an HSA. 

As we all should understand, lower deductibles mean higher premiums.

Get ready to pay moar premium!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:11 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Oh, that wouuldn't surprise me in the least.  Like everyone else, I'll be uck-fayed.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

If you are healthy, and unlikely to need healthcare services, you are indeed truly fucked.  No more escape by choosing high deductible HSAs. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

I'm starting to nose around the private, cash-paid concierge doctors in my area.  I don't know enough to know if that's really a solution, but you described my and my familiy's situation pretty well.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:41 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Forget the concierge marketing scheme, paying $1,000+ just for an annual check up (the highest level office visit for new patients is CPT 99215) is stupid; especially considering that the Medicare fee is less than $400. 

Almost all doctors will accept 80% or 90% of the CMS Medicare Fee Schedule if you pay cash, but you must ask in advance when you call. If they say no, then find someone that will.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Thanks.  That makes a lot of sense.

In general; not just regarding health care; when it comes to getting the goods and services people need, getting it out of the arena of Finance and into the arena of individuals making deals they can live with between themselves seems to be the trend.

It's hard to see eras ending and beginning when it happens in your life in real time.  But it looks to me like the era of complex finance as it involve most people is the historical anomaly, and it's ending.  I think within my lifetime a lot of people will be doing a lot of bartering of goods and services, in their own locales.  Like most people did everywhere, until about a lifetime ago.  Complexity has metastasized and our official systems and ways of getting things done are getting out of the reach of most people.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:46 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Even better, for cash paying clients, document retention and note taking are reduced to the minimum ethically allowed (as opposed to the standard required to bill X insurance)...  in short, there may not be a proper record of some condition you want to remain out of the public eye.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:07 | Link to Comment Parabox
Parabox's picture

Deductibles will be limited to $2000/$4000 in 2014.  HSA limits do not peg to the deductible anymore, so the tax benefit of HSAs will still be there, up to the max annual COLA limits.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:20 | Link to Comment thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

never mind

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 04:48 | Link to Comment Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

They should've just opened Medicare to everyone to begin with, but the insurance companies wouldn't let them. I doubt they will in the future, either. You may be right (I hope). We'll see.

But the amount of uninsured people, who can't afford it, is hurting the country and costing the country in many ways.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

It's designed to fail because it's going to be way way way too expensive.  I am sure everyone here agrees.  We already spend a crazy high amount of our GDP on health care, and this will make it even bigger.

To understand the Obamacare maneuver, you need to keep in mind a recurring legislative strategy used in the era of gridlock:  try to hoist the opposition by their own petard.  No Child Left Behind was a Republican attempt to hoist the left by its own petard in education.  It also was designed to fail.  You claim that every child will be up to snuff by time X -- that's a joke, it can't happen.  But the left can't say no to a phrase like "no child left behind" so there it was, designed to embarass the public schools and usher in privatization.  It only worked a little bit -- they underestimated the education establishment's ability to dodge and weave and move the bars and co-opt the thing in various ways.

In Obamacare -- Dems know the Repubs exist to promote corporate profits.  So they designed a plan that would load the insurers, drug companies, hospital chains etc. with profits.  The Republicans couldn't say no to that -- it's everything they believe in.  Then the system proves wildly too expensive and boom, it collapses, and no way to pick up the pices but single payer.  That was their idea, anyway.

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Hey, get out of my brain!

 

JINX!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

 

We already spend a crazy high amount of our GDP on health care, and this will make it even bigger.

If by "we" you mean Medicare [US Taxpayers] paying for every test and procedure under the sun on 65 year old voters to tell them they are not going to die, today, then I agree.  However, those actually paying for heathcare out of their own pocket, not Uncle Sam's, do not pay a crazy high amount relative to the rest of the world.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:21 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Well, umm...  I am an expat living mostly in Asia, and the French hospital where I go charges one-third what any American place would charge.  You can buy birth control pills without Rx for $4 per month, so no one is yelling about sluts with taxpayer-sponsored sex lives.  Vaccines cost $10 or so.  An EKG is about $20.  Once after some bad oysters I spent the night in a clinic with a gram of rocephin going into my arm, and the bill was $300.  Would have been $3,000 in the US.

Costs in the USA are crazy high even if you pay yourself.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:25 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Where can one go to get the f**k out of ObamaLand?   Asia? Thailand?  Eastern Europe? 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:22 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Costs in the USA are crazy high even if you pay yourself.

This is absoutely false. 

If the American healthcare system has done anything good it is to have kept the reimbursement down for providers, i.e., the costs down for insurance companies. 

If there is one thing I know it is the true-relative pricing of international healthcare.

The problem in the USA is not the price of care; the problem is over consumption of an entitlement.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:59 | Link to Comment object_orient
object_orient's picture

Huh? I'm uninsured and haven't been to a doctor in 15 years, so I'm not exactly over-consuming anything. If I go now and pay cash, the cost will still be high. WTF are you talking about?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:55 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

I'm uninsured and haven't been to a doctor in 15 years

That is exactly what I am talking about.

People that are insured, but do not pay for the entitlement, such as Medicare and Medicaid recipients, tend to over-utilize it, versus someone like you that pays for the care with their own money.

My parents are on Medicare, and have AARP secondary insurance to cover the 20% Part B coinsurance.  They go to the doctor and have elective surgeries more than they go to the barber and get new clothes.  Most importantly to the rat bastard politicians, my parents are retired so they now vote for a living instead of work for a living.  It is sick.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:55 | Link to Comment tbone654
tbone654's picture

We've done this before...  It's Russia that looks more and more attractive...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:21 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

That's really the key to the whole shell-game, isn't it.  We all eventually pay for it, but for some reason a lot of people see a huge distinction between writing a check to the government, or writing a check to the insurance company, or writing a check to a clinic.  Sure, a near-majority don't pay Federal Income Tax.  But that's because they aren't earning enough money to surviive.  When you work full-time and don't earn enough to have to pay income tax, you could think of it as a huge tax you paid already, if you think of insuffiicient income as a form of opportunity cost.

There's no way out of the cost of health care.  It's too high.  We expect too much.  We eat synthetic shit, we don't exercise, we smoke and drink and poison ourselves, and then we keep 85 year-old stroke victims with advanced Parkinson's alive for a year in an ICU for millions of dollars (thinking of my maternal grandmother here) because we have a cultural aversion to basic facts of life.

Once this thing collapses, among other things we'll have to do is reconcile our values (provided to us by the marketing arms of the medical and insurance industries) to what humans everywhere have had to come to grips with since we became sentient (we all die, getting old sucks, and choosing the terms of our exit is probably the best we can do).

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:23 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

We all pay the inflation tax.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Precisely.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:25 | Link to Comment James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

People cannot connect the dots. (At least not in time.)  

Once they connect the dots, they freak-out when they realize the dot they missed is the big one in the center of the bull's eye the government just painted on their backs.

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment darteaus
darteaus's picture

It is designed to fail so that single payer can be positioned as the only solution.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Any other solution would require some realism on the part of patients, and some cost management measures on the part of the industry.  Actually, so will single-payer, but more gradually.  But since we've been so resistant to any such reasonableness to this point, I'm hard-pressed to think of any other viable solution.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:29 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

It is designed to fail so that single payer can be positioned as the only solution.

Stop listening to AM radio and start making your own observations and thinking for yourself. 

Just say no to the Red Team / Blue Team divide and rule paradigm.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

Hedgeless--

My reading shows you to be the one playing red/blue.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:31 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

What words of mine indicate that to you?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

It was your assumption that he couldn't have come to his opinion on his own, but it must have been spoon-fed to him.  Cheers.

If it is said on AM radio it doesn't make it true.  It also doesn't make it false.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Making (incorrect) assumptions about other's assumptions does not in any way support your allegation. 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 20:21 | Link to Comment darteaus
darteaus's picture

Your lack of denial that single payer is the goal is deafening!

Headline: "Seven million will lose coverage under Obamacare" http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/feb/5/obama-hea...

EXACTLY my point - it is designed to fail in order to usher in single payer.

Obama: "I happen to be a proponent of single payer health care...that is the goal."  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

Are you getting this "headless horse excrement"?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:20 | Link to Comment sschu
sschu's picture

The Republicans couldn't say no to that -- it's everything they believe in.

I do not want to turn this into an R vs D thing, but how many Repubs voted for the ACA in either chamber of Congress?

Maybe they fought against it for purely political reasons, maybe not.  Not that it matters, but the socialists used their majority to ram this thing through using every slimy trick in the book with no consensus or input from anyone much less read the thing.

Now we will all live with it.  My advice?  Get and stay healthy, you will not be able to afford to get sick or hurt.

sschu

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:50 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

I guess you are right, it was a straight party line vote and the Republicans couldn't filibuster at that time.

But still there is something suspicious going on.  Since then the GOP has the House and can stall the Senate.  The House takes endless meaningless symbolic votes to repeal Obamacare, but the GOP overall never manages to use their power to block the funding or implementation (despite having the power to block anything they want.)  You get the feeling they want to posture but behind the scenes they are one with the industry lobbyists.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:08 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

I guess what I should have said was, the Dems schemed to hoist the industry by its own petard, and they needed to do that to get every last D and I on board in the Senate.  The Republicans can fairly say they were bystanders.  There was definitely plenty of consensus and input from the lobbyists.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Whatever little playground pissing match the R's and D's got engaged in, the insurers wrote the legislation and the political process got it enacted.  The R's and D's sometimes disagree on exactly how they're going to hand over the real economy to the FIRE sector elites.  Same difference in the end.  The insurance industry and the top corporate health "providers" will rake in the cash until employers and consumers run out of money and the whole game collapses.  Then the bought-and-paid-for government wiill socialize all the debt onto the taxpayer's tab.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 23:37 | Link to Comment sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

In Obamacare -- Dems know the Repubs exist to promote corporate profits.  So they designed a plan that would load the insurers, drug companies, hospital chains etc. with profits.  The Republicans couldn't say no to that -- it's everything they believe in.

What are you blathering about? The law passed with ZERO Republican votes in the House and Senate. I'm not saying Republicans are the good guys, but they have no hand in this particular mess. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:00 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

The nomenclature given the bill describes exactly what it is not. Health care "Reform".  Tort reform, on & on ad nauseum. What was needed was insurance emasculation. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Parabox
Parabox's picture

Because the individual mandate does not have sufficient teeth, private insurers will eventually be squeezed inbetween the pre-existing conditions ban and rate increase controls.  It's designed to create the next crisis with universal healthcare as the final solution.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

Pelosi: "We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It"

 

Patient Protection Affordable Care Act (Obamacare).

Just the name alone tells a lot; it won't protect the patient and it won't be affordable.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:08 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes. If you simply reverse the meaning of an Act's title, you have the real-life result.

i.e., PATRIOT Act means "an act against patriotism."

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment citizen2084
citizen2084's picture

By Rich, do you mean all the broke and currently dying socailist states of Europe?

Or, do mean Japan?  

How are we included as a "rich" country?  

A state that has debt to GDP (not counting unfunded liabilites) of 103% is rich?

 

I am starting to see how it is all so f'ed up. 

 

peAce

 

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:40 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

When Lenin came to power, IIRC, the first of his own supporters he turned on were the Labor Unions. "Useful idiots", indeed.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Lenin killed all the Union heads and their families before foisting his own placements into the labour head roles.  He certainly did have a habit of replacing his labour leader replacements as well.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:35 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Bureaucratic Kleptocracy might be more accurate ya know.  Most especially since the fruits of labor are being stolen and not a function of capitalism.  I'm sure the working class of china are quite happy with the form of captialism we have exported to them.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Let's put the Job's Council on it.

They don't have anything to do.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Spoke too soon.  Job's Council disbanding.. I guess their work is done.

 

Good job boyz, good job..

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Bureaucratic Kleptocracy might be more accurate ya know.  Most especially since the fruits of labor are being stolen and not a function of capitalism.  I'm sure the working class of china are quite happy with the form of captialism we have exported to them.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

It's their corruption that captured their stupidity. Exposed for all to see. About time!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

SUCKERS!  Bwahahahahaha!!!!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

"not slaves laboring for the union"

I have no sympathy for the rank file of union membership.  Like the people who bought McMansions on a McDonalds salary, they were trying to get something that others would pay for.  They are caught in a trap with the bait in their mouths.

Unions, today, are all about being a protected group who get more than others by selling their votes to the democrats who in turn put high dollar taxpayer paid contracts into their greedy little hands.

Ha ha, pitui.  I laugh and spit on you.  Welcome to the same hell as the rest of us.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

However it is sad that the unions are run by incredibly stupid individuals

Yes, and they are called, "lawyers".

Ever since the lawyers starting running the unions, and not the workers, has unionization waned and has anti-union sentiment grown. 

Unions also have been pitted at each other's throats to fight over the waning job opportunities available in the workforce thanks to lawyers and lobbyists gaming legislation.

When unions were run by workers, and not lawyers/lobbyists, change was made.  People of all classeswere involved, and grievances were not just addressed, but resolved.

It was truly a win for the freedom of assembly, and the concept of the American union was the more civil solution to handle inequality in the workforce than the barbarist Bolshelvik Revolution.

Now?  Thanks to big money, and the lawyers it brings, the unions have almost 100% become as corportized as the corporations they fight.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

It is soley to guarantee healthcare insurers access to preexisting conditions.

..and to spread those costs over a wider net.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:40 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

..and to spread those costs over a wider net.
That is a bingo!  Healthcare insurers have raised premiums and cut reimbursements as much as they can, and have now locked it in with Obamacare's 80/20 rule.  How do they now get quarterly growth so management can keep being compensated as if they are running a growth stock, rather than an income stock?
  1. Moar covered lives
  2. Maintain status quo
  3. Profit!

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:42 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

another example of quantity over quality

...and the Beast gets a bit fatter...

(insert your favorite Mr. Creasote clip here)

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

I know someone who goes to a good doctor every few years.  4 years ago the doctor was happy.  Recently they said the doctor is beyond despair.  He yelled at an older patient.  He obviously is ready to quit.

Hope and Misery.  This is all by design.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 21:34 | Link to Comment NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

My wife works in the medical industry, as a result we have a number of friends that are doctors. Some have already taken early retirement and shut down their practice, the others are in the process of doing the same. All of it a direct result of obamacare. When i ask them their reasons why they are getting out of the medical industry the two primary reasons I hear the most are that it will no longer be profitable to be a doctor, and that the amount of paper work will now become unmanagable. So what we are looking at before the system crashes is a sharp increase of the number of patients to doctor ratio, and less doctors to see. I can't wait for when one of the assholes I know that voted for the idiot that signed this piece of crap into law, has to go to the hospital for a medical emergency and have to end up sitting in a waiting room for 6 hours while they wait for a ER doctor to become available to look at them. Then to have the doctor have the same bedside manner as the grumpy old lady I always have to deal with at the DMV. yep FORWARD!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité!"

"Peace, Land, Bread!"

"Hope, Change, Obama!"

"We won't get fooled again... Oh NO!"


Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

mhhh... find a bit offensive that you put those three phrases on the same level

Liberty, Equality under the same Laws and Fraternity, i.e. the recognition of a basic bond between all humans has a value that goes way beyond cheap, temporary slogans and political stances

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Funny how those basic human principles do not apply to those being butchered in Mali by the humanitarian French mercenaries.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:32 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

one little factoid before you condemn French actions in Mali:

there are 6'000 French citizens that live there

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

ghordy, know how many were living in Vietnam in the 50s?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:47 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Citizens?  Fcuk that siht.  Uranium, blue ribbon!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

In theory the military should at most help them evacuate.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

not when there's gold in them there hills!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you'd need more military to evacuate 6'000 people

just saying, the perverse logic of some military operations

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 04:59 | Link to Comment Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

And why do that many French citizens live there? To help the locals? Right.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:15 | Link to Comment JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

"Liberate tuteme ex inferis".

- Event Horizon

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:07 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

No, Obamacare was designed to destroy private health insurers, in the end, and replace them with Big Government.

They went along in the short run out of fear and greed, sacrificing liberty for security, of which they'll get neither.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:15 | Link to Comment Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

This whole entire system (US Govt, US economy, US culture) is TFU, unsustainable and will collapse.

To those of you that voted for this shit show for the past ______ years:  Happy now?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:25 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

so you mean that eventually it will be the same as a single-payer system? just through the back-door of having to go through endless pages and finding it out piecemeal?

personally I find this tendency of writing uncomprehensible laws way worse than your dreaded result

I'd have a little amendment to the constitution: "Congress shall pass no law that can't be recalled from memory by the proposers..."

the roman plebs fought hard to have written and comprehensible laws, once - you should't be guessing what the "design" of a law entails

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

So the lobbyists that were paid by the insurance companies that wrote the bill just suicided themselves? I don't think so. You're forgetting that we have no government, just the corporations in the shadows running it.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Hey! Mr. Union Brother! Can you say you been fucked(one more time) by your union leadership?

YES YOU CAN!

Before November 2012, you were useful idiots.

Now, you're just idiots.

FORWARD SOVIET!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:48 | Link to Comment alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

That or simply start regulating the state instead of the market: Congress shall pass no law allowing the government to interact in any ways with the healthcare industry.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:11 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

I must protest. When I took office it was clear the US Federal Government faced an existential threat. That is, the natural efficiencies created by new technologies in the world cause far less money to flow around. Government can only tax money when it flows around. As the flow is reduced, government must raise taxes or cut spending. We all know the latter option is unthinkable.

It was clear we had to raise taxes. So we figured out as the US population is aging and will have to be spending more and more on health care, we had to get in on the action. Essentially what we had to do was nationalize health care. I'm shocked at how silly your notion is, that this was done to benefit the big insurance companies (big pharma, etc). Precisely the opposite! We in government realized we had to appropriate the vast profits those very institutions are enjoying, just to stay in business.

I'll never get tired of the delight I see when you fools (citizens, sheeple, whatever) constantly blame the wrong entity.

Fucktards: Who has the guns? Who enforces the "laws" of the land? They are your enemy. Not the corporations that merely try to thrive under whatever rules are in place. I say this in all surety that you people are too stupid to do anything about it anyway.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

fail

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I get a macabre sense of satisfaction when stupid people get kicked in the nuts, punched in the face, knocked to the ground, curb stomped and left unconscious in their own gore.

In this case, its the unions and its pretty fucking funny.

Look, stupidity is supposed to hurt.  Thats how you learn not to be stupid.  If you dont learn to not be stupid, youre supposed to die.  Its just beautiful how nature works that way.

So, dumbass union members, learn from this mistake, or not.  I dont care.

Have a nice day.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:28 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Nicely put.  The unions voted for him, they got him.  Perhaps we generalize this: all of those who voted for Obama are getting what they want and deserve (and I include, of course, the crooked banksters).

Too bad suckers!  The Bearing is withdrawing "poco a poco" from the system, c ya, AMFs!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment jayman21
jayman21's picture

Do not answer that knock on your door and you might want to look up to make sure the drones are not coming.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Its "EXPROPRIATE" you central planning, collectivist, dumbass!

FORWARD SOVIET!

despite this pea brained Manchurian... Soros will have his way with you all!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:18 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

I stand corrected. Those public schools in Kenya didn't spend much time on such details.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Its "EXPROPRIATE" you central planning, collectivist, dumbass!

FORWARD SOVIET!

despite this pea brained Manchurian... Soros will have his way with you all!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:18 | Link to Comment sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

"freakin idiots...?"

Now just a damn second here, why just a few months ago, I heard Labor Radio read a press release from the most virulently anti-worker, anti-union outfit out there, the National Association of Manufacturers, the first president and founding member:  Geo. W. Bush's great-granddaddy!

Oh wait.... you may be right after all, Labor Radio giving free press to NAM!!!*#&&#*#*(@(

For thest best analysis on Romney/Obama/HeritageFoundationCare:

http://www.nomiprins.com/thoughts/2012/11/10/real-danger-of-obamacare-insurance-company-takeover-of-healt.html

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

Since these clown in congress never read anything they sign, why don't we all save some money and have "Linda Green" replace all the senators!!!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:53 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Misery.

It will only get worse for unions if Amnesty goes through.  Evil evil Idiots.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Ha ha. Hope and Change is a real bitch when you finally discover you are no longer of value to the regime.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:21 | Link to Comment jayman21
jayman21's picture

There is a great idea, outsource congress...how can it get any worse?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:20 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

I think people are starting to understand the true meaning of my book's title The Audacity Of Hope.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:31 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Is that the same as The Mendacity of MOPE from which everyone in government seems to keep quoting?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Robosigning? Very smart. No vote traceability, no accountability.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:06 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

As if there is any now? Y'know, from the most transparent administration that vowed to clean up DC?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:47 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Oh KK, they're cleanin up alright. Just not how boobus americanus expected.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

Hey Mr. Banzai.  Looks like an opportunity for some interesting graphic expression

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"Wait, no, you mean that in order to get your vote a career politician... lied? Say it isn't true."

 

But wasn't it Nancy Piglousy that claimed they had to pass it before they can read it? Doesn't that just give you tingle down your leg?

 

It is getting almost unbearable to even spend the time to keep up with the stupid any longer. I am at the point of almost not being able to stay polite to the fucking idiots who vote blue, red, blue, red  for these incompotent mfer's. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 19:34 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I stopped being polite after 2011 when they started the games with Ron Paul. I wasn't going to vote anyways, but they didn't even let the guy speak. That tells me that they don't care about being honest or at least not being as bold and open about their dishonesty.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

An Operating Engineer in CA cost well over $1000/month to insure...thus will throw it into the penalty portion of Obamacare being that they are over-insured.  Start reading Obamacare-----its fucked up.  The % of MAGI are high.  Even if you qualify for a portion on the credit ...you'll probably pay more than you do today.  Thus only those with MAGI under 10K if single and 20K if married are safe.  I don't know what employers might do.  They might strategically eliminate insurance and pay the penalty. And with US health care so fucking expensive.......its we the people that will pay. Healthy??? Don't use health care unless physically injured??  You pay anyway.  HDHP probably a thing of the part.  HSA?   May be forced to cash it in and pay the penalty.  This is a mess, thats why the penalty for not being insured is only $95 the first year.  Even the law writers know that many will not buy the forced insurance and they get a year to coerce them.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Hospital budget = broken.

 

That's okay though.  All those law makers will have access to the same care anyone else in the US does.  Which is none.  They should all consider themselves proud and on the list of people first against the wall.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:59 | Link to Comment sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Technically it isn't a penalty. It is a "tax".

That distinction provided the cover for Supreme Court [read: Roberts] to pass it. Hopefully that is the very seed that will cause Obamacare to be shot down in the end.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

And it is an unconstitutional tax.  Unfortunately, it cannot be challenged until they actually start trying to collect it.  That will come soon enough.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:42 | Link to Comment sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Indeed. I'm hopeful that this will destroy the Obamacare 1.0 (because let's face it, 2.0 will be quickly coming should it be shot down). I can't imagine they can keep the "tax" low enough to pass muster and still keep the plan viable. Raise it to appropriate 'insurance viability levels' and the tax is completely oppressive as well as unconstitutional. Could awaken some of the slumbering sheep...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment tango
tango's picture

I think you have the wrong idea about insurance. You carry insurance for the times when things go wrong.  We insure homes, cars, computers, etc and get life insurance in case of death.  We don't pay as you go (health care) for two reasons - 1) most Americans have no emergency savings and 2) claims where insurance is vital are the catastrophic ones - wreck, heart attack, cancer, etc   

To lower costs we would have to do things like PC-based doctor visits (saves millions today) or become as healthy as the Japanese (8% obesity) and stop smoking.  Smoking, obesity (heart, diabetes,etc) and their related diseases consume over 40% of health care costs today.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 16:22 | Link to Comment BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

"Insurance for the times when things go wrong" has been specifically outlawed by Obamacare.

Nobody's car insurance covers headlamp bulb replacement, door hinge grease, wiper blade inserts, or oil changes.

Obamacare specifically mandates coverage for piddling crap like that, which kills high-deductible, low premium plans.

A best solution would be for people to pay for checkups, flu shots, visits for "hey I need a prescription," etc., out of pocket. Insurance could be left to cover cancer, surgeries, etc.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:59 | Link to Comment God Bless The V...
God Bless The Virtuous's picture

Brown shirts get ready to meet your own Night of Long Knives!

These scumbag union thugs, you are worthless and even more expendable to the Fascist / Progressive dog shit you have laid down with!

You get what you deserve and more, the scorn of the American people!

God save the Republic,

without the dead weight of the King's disciples!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Something should save the republic, but dont wait for god to do it.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment tango
tango's picture

The post is fundamentally wrong in its assumption.  The four groups hurt worst the past four years were blacks, hispanics, young people and single women.  And yes, rthey voted overwhelmingly for the Prez.  I don't believe for a NY second that unions will ever turn against Obama - he's the biggest friend they've ever had.  The one hope is that it's obvious when folks are not forced to pay dues, they don't.  THIS is why they fight against right to work laws.  

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:41 | Link to Comment duo
duo's picture

People turning 27 are in for one hell of a shock.  28 hour work weeks and $5000 a year for insurance.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 15:00 | Link to Comment tbone654
tbone654's picture

That is exactly correct... And living in daddy's basement along with grandma isn't going to keep anyone from feeling the HUGE bite of government...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment NewAmericaNow
NewAmericaNow's picture

This is what happens when you pass legislation to see what's in it.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:35 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Jumped the shark. Homes.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:36 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

Thanks for the tip, who knew what wealth could be had just googling the phrase "Jump the shark".

The Simpsons is my pet peeve. That show jumped the shark around 16 years ago. But it keeps going and going and going...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:57 | Link to Comment TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

The US jumped the shark over a hundred years ago.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

I routinely send my thoughts to the nsa, dhs, fbi and any other .gov organization that has an email in box.    What I essentially say is, FUCK YOU, THIS IS WHERE I LIVE.  IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, COME AND GET ME.

I suppose it is just a matter of time.

 

 

FUCK YOU BERNANKE.

 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:47 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Kinda makes it hard for the working man to figure out which group of people that represents him/her to shoot first.

They know where I live too. 

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

We all post here....   We are all on their list....  They know hwere we all live....

 

I join in saying...   Come get me!

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

fuck'em & their List..

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:19 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Yes sir.

Fear is their biggest weapon.

Fuck 'em.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

No sense in actually painting a target on your back, just like if you're a little tipsy and driving - do you cross the double yellows and shout out the window "fuck you coppers".  There is a saying that is worth heeding and is actually strategically sound and that is "wise as a serpent, harmless as a dove".  Oops, did I say strategic?  Is that a drone I hear?  So much for my sound advice.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 23:52 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

You done stepped in it. Hi-Pro Glow.

Welcome to the club.

Fuck 'em, still.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

FUCK YOU BER-MONKEY! 

Fixed it.

I wish I had more video making experience, as I would make a Discovery Chennel-esque documentary of the Bearded Ber-Monkey.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Hey Dick, lay off the monkey shit already! Or I'll fling something at you...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 13:04 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Why insult monkeys? There has never been a communist monkey. Ever.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 14:47 | Link to Comment James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

What about the monkeys launched by the Soviet Union space program?  Or did they only experiment with capitalist monkeys?

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:37 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Corporate Welfare Bitches............

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

More like onsumer and  taxpayer paid welfare which is what all socialized programs are - union or not.

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:38 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

We want beer...

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

And titties.   

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

Titties & Beer -- Frank Zappa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwb1s1DYnDU

Thu, 01/31/2013 - 11:54 | Link to Comment orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

there ya go! nice one!!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!