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Dutch SNS Bank Fails On Real Estate Losses: First "Too Big To Fail" Nationalization In Five Years

Tyler Durden's picture


Earlier today we got one hint that not all is well in the European banking system, as far less than the expected €200 billion was tendered back to the ECB in the second LTRO repayment operation, when just 27 banks paid back some €3.5 billion. Another, perhaps far bigger one, comes courtesy of AAA-rated Netherlands, which just experienced its first bank failure since 2008 following the nationalization of SNS Reall NV, as the previously announced bad loan writedown finally claimed the bank. As a reminder, half a month ago we got news that "SNS Reaal NV (SR), a Dutch bank and insurer struggling to wind down a money-losing real estate lending unit, fell the most in more than two months after a report said it may have to post a 1.8 billion-euro ($2.4 billion) writedown on property-finance loans." Today we got the inevitable conclusion: nationalization, one which will cost taxpayers about $5 billion to avoid contagion to what many see as Europe's "strongest" banking system.

From Bloomberg:

The move, aimed “at stabilizing the SNS Reaal group,” will cost taxpayers 3.7 billion euros ($5 billion), the Dutch Finance Ministry said in a statement today. SNS’s property- finance unit will be separated from the company.


“I scrutinized all alternative solutions involving market parties,” Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem said. “Yesterday night I found myself compelled to conclude no acceptable total solution was offered. I therefore had to use the instrument of last resort, which is nationalization.”


The lender, which acquired ABN Amro Holding NV’s property- finance unit in 2006, has been hurt by losses on real estate loans that have left it struggling to repay a government bailout before next year’s deadline and bolster capital buffers. The nationalization includes all issued shares, core tier 1 capital securities and subordinated bonds, the ministry said.


SNS shares were suspended in Amsterdam. They last traded yesterday at 84 cents, valuing the company at 242 million euros, and have declined 57 percent in the past year.




The state will inject 2.2 billion euros of capital into SNS Reaal, write down 800 million euros on its earlier aid package and use 700 million euros to put the real estate portfolio at arm’s length.


“Nationalization would safeguard financial stability and prevent serious damage to the economy,” Dijsselbloem said. “I want the private sector to contribute as much as possible.”


SNS Reaal is the smallest of four Dutch banks designated as “systemically important,” or too big to fail, by the Dutch central bank. It had 32.5 billion euros in savings at the end of the third quarter, according to a Nov. 15 presentation. ING, Rabobank Groep and ABN Amro are its three largest competitors.

So if one of the most stable banking systems in Europe is not quite as stable as expected, one can only imagine what is going on in Spain and Italy, and how many hundreds of billions more in taxpayer aid will have to be shelved out once the soaring bad loans in these two countries can no longer be swept under the rug. 


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Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:24 | 3205600 blabam
blabam's picture


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:28 | 3205612 DutchDude
DutchDude's picture

Dijsselbloem and central banker Klaas Knot are the same kind of BanksterBuddy as DeJager and Wellink were

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:43 | 3205647 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Where there is one, there are usually more.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:12 | 3205720 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

There is never one cockroach.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:30 | 3205768 Silvarouvres
Silvarouvres's picture

The juicy part has not been mentioned yet. Using a brand new law on nationalization (2012), shareholders and bondholders are wiped out. Fitch specifically warned that if the dutch government were to do this, it would downgrade the entire European banking sector. Interesting start for Dijsselbloem, new head of the Euro group. He also let no room for interpretation whether or not this part of the new law would be applicable in the SNS Reaal case: "I can sympathise easily with the resistance many will feel because we again will need to use a large amount of public money,” Mr Dijsselbloem said. “This is why I want the private sector to pay as large a share as possible of the rescue of SNS Reaal.” "

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 11:00 | 3206058 Silvarouvres
Silvarouvres's picture

Shareholders and subordinated bond holders lose their money, ordinary bondholders do not it seems

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 11:13 | 3206165 HoaX
HoaX's picture

First of all a heartfelt FUCK YOU to Fitch for threatening a downgrade of all European banks if Shareholders where to lose a single cent on this. They and subordinate creditors rightfully pay for the risks they took in exchange for higher interest rates in case of the latter.

Secondly their wasn´t much of a choice and I think Nationalization in this case was the only solution, as much as I bet you Americans would have preferred a European Lehmans.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 14:09 | 3206782 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

The pattern has become very's always some excuse about how they need money from the public purse.

This is just throwing more good money after bad to save something that cannot be saved.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:40 | 3205823 unrulian
unrulian's picture

there are only two things i hate in this world...intolerence....and the Dutch

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:50 | 3205853 marathonman
marathonman's picture

Well played unrulian.  Well played....

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:33 | 3206680 Xandrino
Xandrino's picture

So which third world piece of shit country are you from? Dying for the answer

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 14:55 | 3206908 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Pluto! I am Plutonite. Got a problem with that earthling? Stay the fuck away from my planet or i Zirp and zarp you.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:30 | 3205614 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Oh you're just begging for some little Dutch boy with wooden clogs to come and kick your ass.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:24 | 3205604 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

I pray it's a contagion event and Bernanke is in the fucking path of the fucking train. Motherfucker.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:25 | 3205606 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

Something is rotten in the state of the Netherlands.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:03 | 3205699 Banksters
Banksters's picture

Hopefully the bond and equity holders are made whole.  It is only fair...   Barf

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:10 | 3205714 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I was about to suggest that the Dutch central bank buy all the troubled assets - like they do in the US?

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 14:58 | 3206919 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

that will be the windmills drying the socks! clean energy bud.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:26 | 3205607 news printer
news printer's picture
Suicide bomber strikes US Embassy in Ankara

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:35 | 3205616 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



The UN should outlaw that crap.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:08 | 3205708 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Or at least issue a strongly worded statement breathlessly reported by Ann Compton!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:44 | 3205639 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

in Ankara... JEeezz.... that's not news! Over there it's probably just some kids playing suicide bomber! Perfectly normal...


just saying because when I was a kid I didn't like girls and only wanted to play with my friends... so this kid will be bored as hell!



That's some deep shit he? Yep... on fridays, I mostly get phylosfical when I don't get my boose on time...

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:00 | 3205687 Diplodicus Rex
Diplodicus Rex's picture

"7 VIRGINS" or when it is accurately translated from the Arameic, "7 white raisins".

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:01 | 3205694 Acet
Acet's picture

+1 For semi-incoherent ranting due to lack of booze

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:29 | 3205609 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run..........

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:33 | 3205624 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

In Holland it is forbidden to call for bank runs. Yet they claim to have freedom of speech.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:57 | 3205686 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:02 | 3205692 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Clean up on aisle 5.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:29 | 3205610 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

Bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run bank run..........

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:30 | 3205611 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It's hard to build houses out of tulips...

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:33 | 3205623 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

The tulip bubble was so irrational. Assigning so much value to something that was basically worthless... Crazy. Shit, I forgot to get to the ATM. Kids need lunch money.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:28 | 3205766 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Don't leave the house without your Bitcoins kids.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:13 | 3205725 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Or seashells or paper ...
and while Au is ductile and malleable the damn contractors keep running off with the materials!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 15:05 | 3206955 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

only tulips from amsterdam. . .but in france the twolips are to die for. lip service! back to holland some of those manufactured window breasts, well, you could shelter in those; just sayin

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:34 | 3205625 youngman
youngman's picture

So bank staaaak....or gold and make the call

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:34 | 3205626 orca
orca's picture

DSB Bank failed in October 2009.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:42 | 3205630 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

In Holland, almost everything is under water... it's only because of the dikes that they're not drowning.

And Holland sure does have a lot of dikes...

But... give global warming a bit more time...



According to ancient records from the middle ages, I should be able to see the sea from my house!

Seaside => More expensive => MO MONEY FOR ME!!! => DROWN YOU DUTCH!!


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:46 | 3205652 negative rates
negative rates's picture

That dyke will outlast your lifetime on this planet.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:02 | 3205693 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


or 2 dikes who don't like to be called dikes...


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 10:40 | 3206033 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Only 20% of the country lies below sea level, not most of the country.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:46 | 3205633 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

A new commuter rail station in Zaragoza Spain which sees just 60 passengers a day..............ón_de_Miraflores


Although this station is badly located - being away from much apartments and houses (other then the local football stadium) , Spain like all ALL euro countries is seeing a chronic lack of domestic demand & local commerce  as a result of the use of the euro dud note which is far too hard a currency for use as a medium of exchange.


It is not in fact a currency like a national token but a capital token that now ironically cannot use & distribute capital.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:49 | 3205657 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So? In Belgium half of the stations half almost NO passengers!

I had to take the train a few month ago because my car broke down, so I went to the station about 4 miles from my home.

A train stops every 20 minutes, and I was there all alone!

Off course, we still piss money so it's not a real problem for us....

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:10 | 3205715 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

@Sudden debt.


Well the purpose of the eurozone seems to be the export of capital to other shores so your obervations make some sense......


We don't piss money in the eurozone...........where is the supply ?

We piss capital.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:21 | 3205740 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

money is not capital - and your request of further monetary easing does not increase capital, it just changes it's allocation and it's market value in (fiat) money terms

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 10:43 | 3205760 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

I have already made that distinction ..........see above.


Monetary easing ?

Its not really monetary / banking stuff I am talking about.


A real nation can just deposit real money into peoples need for double entry stuff even.


The money we use in Europe is not local to its economic hinterland.




i.e. You deposit euros into peoples accounts and it will just suck in imports.

 you deposit pesatas into Spanish peoples accounts and it will stimulate local demand.......


People will have enough money tokens to go and watch the soccer match etc etc.

Though it would inflate the cost of car  /air travel and other high energy input activities.


My argument orbits around the fact that the Euro is not real money.

It is not a creature of the nation state.



And the above actions  can increase the amount of surplus capital.............if people don't drive their cars  ,real surplus capital can be freed for other uses.

Although in the euro market state any sacrifices made by people is only wasted on free banking grot as the free banks capture all the available surplus to express short term profits.


These sort of entreport activites are no longer sustainable at such a high $ oil price.



The Amsterdam Entrepot.ôt


PS the recent Irish horsemeat in beefburgers scandal did not highlight any real health scandal as such - rather the absurd nature of inter european trade so as to avoid labour value.


The non national Euro is the vehicle for this darkness.

Its strength enables it to buy oil rather then local labour , increasing profits.

But now as labour value is subtracted there is less and less demand and indeed progressive local skill shortages develop throughout the euro market state over time......... beginning I should think since about 1980 ~


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 12:20 | 3206420 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

interesting theory, but I find it has a hole you'd have to fix first

my understanding of a national currency is based on taxes - whatever the nation-state collects as taxes is the currency

be it copper coins, or francs, or euros, or tally-sticks, or gold coins

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:09 | 3206543 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture



Of course - the issue  / tax thingie is government fiat - that is so obvious I did not think it worth talking about.


That was not my point (see above ) .


Goverments cannot issue euros - they must get permission to issue fiat.


In the case of Anglo they got permission as long as the state was willing to tax in the interests of bondholders.

I think it was called a letter of comfort or something.

Given the polticans interests now fully align with the bankers it works like a charm.


The entire fiat thingy has been turned around 180 degrees by the bankers.


Its a wonderfull but dastardly construction when seen from their point of view.


They can hyperinflate credit and turn it into fiat without devaluation ............a perfect bank job , don't you think ?


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:13 | 3205723 Acet
Acet's picture

Don't have that much opinion of Belgium.

What really stuck in my mind about Belgium:

  1. When I was driving my car to Holland from France, as soon as I entered Belgium the road was suddenly crap and as soon as I left it, the road was suddenly good again.
  2. One of the great tourist sights of Brussels, the Manneken Pis turns out to be this miniscule statue of a kid pissing in a street that's but one step above a dark alley
  3. There is an entire street in the center Brussels with restaurants which are the most expensive turist traps in the whole Western Europe

At least I can speak both Dutch and French. I can but imagine how far turists that can't speak either are taken advantage of ...


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:17 | 3205734 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you have to avoid Brussels, the rest is quite nice, imho

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:32 | 3205771 Acet
Acet's picture

Well, I was told that both Gent and Antwerp are actually worse than Brussels, but Brugges is well worth visiting.

Only really went to Brussels on a day trip because one can get the fast train there from Amsterdam. Frankly, getting the TGV or Thalys to Paris is more fun and doesn't take much longer.


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 12:42 | 3206470 Whiteshadowmovement
Whiteshadowmovement's picture

Lol, most expensive tourist traps in Europe huh? Ever happen to get tricked into having lunch at a cafe on the Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich?

Last time this happened to me, I was there with 2 other people, we had 5 beers, 2 salads and 3 mains (zuricher geschnaetzltes)

Total bill: $200 USD

God how we laughed and laughed when that check came, it was almost worth it for the joy at brought to our loves!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:11 | 3206585 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Oh it was happy hour 2 for one he?!

Don't visit : tourist recommendation sites.

they are only for tourists and entering a plac like that makes you a joke to the locals.

Every city has those places, you don't visit them in your own place, and yet... on vacation... you do...

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 14:59 | 3206925 Whiteshadowmovement
Whiteshadowmovement's picture

Lol I know, I actually know Zurich pretty well but the other 2 didnt and we were all hungry and I didnt want to sound like a cheapskate by pointing out these places are only for the gullible

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:11 | 3206577 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Well, I'll not try to anger myself here, but Ghent is one og the most beautifull countries in north Europe!
Also, ever heard of the threaty of Ghent? Americans should realize that it's there that it's been signed!

You visit Brussels because you don't know much about Europe and you want to learn about a country in 5 minutes so you go online or buy crappy tourist guides.
If you looked it up or bought a descent guide, Ghent and Antwerp would top the list.

I met a group of Americans 2 weeks ago who came to Ghent for a salesmeeting. They where in AWE of the city!

Holland is the most crappy country without history in Europe. Everything was bombed during WOii and they never managed to rebuild it.

You should try to learn something about a country before you visit it, because you'll miss everything.

Yes you visited the tourist traps :) and missed the rest.
It says more about you than the stuuf you went to see.

You'll probably always have this happening to you because you follow the crowds.

Second, In Brussels you have extremley beautifull sights, squares, buildings.... and you missed them all.... how sad you waisted your vacation time like that....

Now what amazes me the most is that you actually visited the top 3 of the worst things to see in Brussels! You will find that on every tourist site!

So next time, if you go on vacation, don't be a lemming that dollows the crowds and read a book before you go. Not only your vacation will improve bigtime but the people that acompany you will find it more fun to travel with you because the worst thing that People hate most is somebody who knows shit about anything playing guide to try to show he knows anything.
In the end you just look and sound like a fool. And you don't want that now do you?

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 14:41 | 3206861 HoaX
HoaX's picture

What a bunch of bs..Only Rotterdam got bombed in the Netherlands and Ghent isn´t a country, it´s a fucking town.


Sat, 02/02/2013 - 09:02 | 3208885 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

which I like very much

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:39 | 3205634 orca
orca's picture

By the way, SNS passed all stress tests and their figures were signed off each year by KPMG.
Oh, and DNB (Dutch Central Bank) told us today that they monitorred them from July 2008, without telling anyone.
So this is another major fuck-up brought to you by the regulators and overseers of the Netherlands, where financial "assets" in the banking systems is 344% of GDP.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:39 | 3205638 Voice_Of_Unreason
Voice_Of_Unreason's picture

Have they found the Goldman derivative yet?

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:44 | 3205643 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Already cashed out......just trying to figure out who's next.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:49 | 3205655 negative rates
negative rates's picture

No, but there is a tower erected for the J.P. Morgan one.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 11:31 | 3206245 HoaX
HoaX's picture

JP Morgan was the financial advisor who oversaw the purchase of Bouwfonds Property finance from ABN AMRO in 2006.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:41 | 3205640 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

One day Mario, they will all be ours.

I know, but, you’re not supposed to say things like that outside the Emperor’s (Lord Blankfein) chamber. For all you know, anyone of these people in the room could be Tyler.


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:43 | 3205642 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:43 | 3205646 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



No....default is not an option.....failure totally is.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:45 | 3205649 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:52 | 3205673 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Working for Lehman Brothers.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:46 | 3205644 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Yes the dark gaseous clouds have passed Mario...


By: @blumaberlin

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:59 | 3205678 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I've got the calender version......the temptation to not peek at the next month is almost too much to bare.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:11 | 3205716 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Merkel (or Merkle as in baseball boner)?

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:02 | 3205696 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:12 | 3205719 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

My eyes!!!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:50 | 3205660 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I assume all bank management and board members get to keep their jobs.  Because, you know, they are the ones who know the bank and it's assets the best, so they are the right ones to "lead the bank through these troubled times."


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:50 | 3205662 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Dutch bankers yearn for the good old days.

Just dump a few pallets of cash at a flower show and whammo instant speculative bubble.

Much tougher work these days, money printing ain't what it used to be...

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:57 | 3205680 Marcuz Aurelius
Marcuz Aurelius's picture

Socialism at its finest in my homecountry ... prettymuch all political partys from left to right scramled to call it a painful yet necessary action (morons). These are the same people who ignored a consulation of the dutch populace per referendum on the european "constitution". So yea something is definatly rotten, with daily reports on nepotism and other forms of semi-government corruption. And jobless percrntages hitting new high last quarter of a 7.6% and that was before the construction sector sent out alarming sounds about decline in projects (austerity related) due to goverment structural cuts of 35bn euro last 6 years. Something tells me that at somepoint heads of our elite will start rolling again like in the glorious days of the bataafse republic.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:09 | 3205709 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

eh? you had a referendum on the EU constitution. you did vote no, by 61% vs. 38%, together with the French, btw

the constitutionalists had to retreat, and we will continue on a strict treaty basis

that was the whole scope and question of the referendum: constitution or treaties

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:46 | 3205845 Marcuz Aurelius
Marcuz Aurelius's picture

Yes but it was a vote against the EU by the dutch and not about some word semantics game consitution<>treaty as they are interexchangeable.

And federalist like guy verhofstad like to spread on tv shows that we are pro EU and the Euro. Wich couldnt be further from the truth, if you ask around young and old alike ... one thing that stands out is people want to remain sovereign but do want cooperate on economical and social themes (healthcare and immigration). People are fed up with the wealth transfer ... as they suffer each day from the ever diminishing purchasing power of the Euro and the big rewards that come with being incompetent, that you need to be bailed out as a company or public instituion (high schools, universities or even hospitals). Netherlands triple AAA ... yea right !

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 11:20 | 3206207 HoaX
HoaX's picture

Verhofstadt has more brains in his left ball than you will obviously obtain in several lifetimes. And speak for yourself when you say the Dutch are not Pro-Euro. Which party lost big in the latest elections? Your favourite single-issue anti-eu PVV. So go fuck yourself. p.s. yes I´m dutch as well.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:13 | 3206563 Marcuz Aurelius
Marcuz Aurelius's picture

HoaX, i meant the EMU/Euro, not Europe. Furthermore i voted on the Ron Paul equivalent party in The Netherlands and also supported them with a donation. You're judgement is obviously clouded by the polarised political landscape, since neither the currently or past ruling (of the last 20 years) parties or PVV for that matter, provide solutions to the prevailing problems. And yes if you insist to knowing me better i voted in the past on D66 merely for the reasons that they support certain agendapoints i find important: like education (not in its current apparition) and a more "renewable" economy, where the majority of the resources are used as efficient as possible and capital gains do not flow outside of our countries borders. With the corporatistic/facistic structure we have since A.D 1970-2013. We have for example: people with minimum wages/income of wich 25% go to the energy companies wich are in hands of not Dutch interests but for example Swedish and German and British interests, why is this bad ... these companies do not add value to our community by increasing our standars of living (they keep providing it "our current standard" but not enhancing it), nope they are merely financial vehicles who siphon every bit of their "free cash flow" in to the pockets of their dividend demanding shareholders.

And yes i must thank you for that comparison of wich attempts to describe the content of my character. So do you have any ideas/solutions how to combat the current deteriorating situation in Europe and the Netherlands 

for that specific matter.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 14:08 | 3206766 HoaX
HoaX's picture

K, I take back my insult.

Regarding possible solutions, I think we need efficient regulation of the financial services sector, the Financial Transaction Tax being implemented is also a step in the right direction, if only to curb in High Frequency Trading and Derivative trades, both financial time-bombs. Besides that, those responsible for this mess at SNS, as well as other banks, should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Regarding the situation in Europe I think we should have used this opportunity where credit is dirt cheap to not stuff up banks more but instead invest in Renewable energy sources, we cannot keep depending on fossil fuels for the future and this could have provided not only for high-tech jobs but would earn the respect of future generations for a change.

If you look at the building sector in the Netherlands, the Achterhoek is shedding jobs left and right driving thousands of builders into unemployment. Why not invest in making houses there more energy efficient? This would keep them at work, thus enabling said builders to pay more taxes instead of costing the government and losing valuable time and experience which makes them less employable in the future, it would also bring in more corporation taxes, AND bring down energy costs for the households involved. A win-win situation if you ask me.

Err...That would be a couple of things I can come up with on the top of my mind, but I admit it´s Friday afternoon and I had a long week (Beer time ;)

Cheers for not biting and explaining yourself so clearly by the way, and my apologies for reacting so sharply, you are right that the political climate has become a bit polarized the past years and reading the comment sections of most Dutch newspapers doesn´t help a lot in this respect.

Oh, one more thing regarding Verhofstadt, I think he did very well in the Buitenhof interview and have a lot more respect for him than the likes of Arjo Klamer, who as a professor, should never ever get involved in Political debates if you ask me. What Verhofstadt said about politicians needing the courage to take up seemingly unpopular positions and explaining these to voters is the exact opposite of Populism, which is the easiest way to cash in politically these days. So yeah, I will defend Guy any day in that respect.


Sat, 02/02/2013 - 09:11 | 3208895 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you support a libertarian party, but on the other side you have a conservative & nationalistic complaint "not Dutch interests but...Swedish and German and British interests..." coupled with a nationalistic & socialistic one: "...people with minimum wages/income of wich 25% go to the energy companies..."

Here another nationalistic one: "these companies do not add value to our community by increasing our standars of living" and here another socialistic one: " to the pockets of their dividend demanding shareholders"

are you really, really sure you are any kind of liberal or libertarian?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:40 | 3224804 Marcuz Aurelius
Marcuz Aurelius's picture

Youre analysing my words, but don't understand their underlying motivation. i care not for these matters at all as they are part of the fabric that is our current society. and that society will collapse if it does not change its

habits, by taking care of themselfs by taking charge (that is my personal objective), not by the government or corporations for that matter. So yes, words are meaningless in todays world as they are being used and abused by people like youreselfs Ghordius.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 12:00 | 3206369 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Marcuz Aurelius, I really don't understand. Semantics? Dutch is not that complex, as a language

the referendum was called  Verdrag tot vaststelling van een Grondwet voor Europa

and the question was posed this way:

>> Bent U voor of tegen instemming door Nederland met het verdrag tot vaststelling van een grondwet voor Europa? <<

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:21 | 3205752 Acet
Acet's picture

Well, a couple of years before the crisis you guys did vote in the moralistic right-wingers that worried more about regulating coffeeshops and closing down red light districts than regulating the banks. (I actually left Holland around that time in part because I disagreed with the political shift).

Then you re-elected them for 4 more years. I do believe they've only been kicked out recently.

At least Holland has a proportional voting system - in most of Europe and the US, the voting systems are rigged to create a political duopoly, so the best a voter can hope is to change the flies.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 08:57 | 3205681 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture


EBA says new derivative rules to prevent new Monte Paschi cases

Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:18 a.m. CST

MILAN (Reuters) - The European Banking Authority chief Andrea Enria said the new rules on derivatives under completion will reduce the chances of a new financial scandal like that emerged at Tuscan lender Monte dei Paschi di Siena .

"With the new rules on derivatives we are finalizing it will be more difficult to see a case (like Monte dei Paschi)," Enria said on the sidelines of a banking conference in Milan.

"We have to avoid that this case (of Monte dei Paschi) lead to generalizations," Enria said, answering a question about the credibility of Italian banks.



You know there has to be a lot of embarrassing dead bodies floating in the derivatives cesspool and not just in Italy. Keep them spot lights shining bright. It is only way to break the central bank stranglehold on the world.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:29 | 3205762 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


You're saying those floaters aren't Baby Ruths?

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:00 | 3205689 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

There will be no credit events.


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:08 | 3205712 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



You'd have to be crazy to push that button.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:01 | 3205691 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

One of the properties real estate from SNS was a Spanish golf court. Complete dried up grass and no golf players, of course...  It costed Euro 100.000 a year to keep the grass wet....  Fuckers. Dried grass for the taxpayers. Smoke it so you don't feel the pain Dijsselbloem said.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:12 | 3205721 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

spanish players dominate when the game is played on clay courts however I am talking about tennis and you are talking about golf

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:04 | 3205698 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And more on the LTRO repayments and the ECB in general.


Euribor bank-to-bank lending

rates rose on Friday ahead of the second round of banks' early

crisis loan repayments to the European Central Bank.

Markets moved quickly to factor in a steady rise in money

market rates last week after the ECB said that banks would repay

a larger than expected amount - 137 billion euros ($186 billion)

- of the three-year loans they took about a year ago early.

Whether they were right to do so depends on whether banks

will keep up the pace with which they return the emergency funds

to the ECB, which they can do now on a weekly basis.

A Reuters poll forecast a return of 20 billion euros at the

second repayment opportunity, but forecasts varied widely.

In total, the ECB pumped more than 1 trillion euros into the

banking system with two offerings of three-year loans, one in

December 2011 and one in February 2012 as it tried to avert a

credit crunch.

The heavy oversupply of ECB cash has long depressed the

rates banks charge each other on lending markets, but a

significant repayment could drive rates higher.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:09 | 3205711 youngman
youngman's picture

They will pass rules to make it easier to hide these trades....they will not stop the trades....or call them by a different name...maybe "investment" might work...people like the word investment...sounds good

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:13 | 3205724 Volaille de Bresse
Volaille de Bresse's picture

Euro banking system : "Somewhat Damaged"


"So impressed with all you do 

 Tried so hard to be like you 

Flew too high and burnt the wing 
Lost my faith in everything"


"Broken bruised forgotten sore 

Too fucked up to care anymore 
Poisoned to my rotten core 
Too fucked up to care anymore "


Works alright!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:14 | 3205729 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Last time I was in Holland, I noticed that there were a lot of hot women there.


Go Holland!!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 09:24 | 3205755 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

I said we PRINT(print) ah, yeah, PRINT! (print)
We got to pray eh... print!
Just to make it to print!
That's word, we p r i n t

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 10:21 | 3205966 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They had to throw $5B at it before it failed so they are scumbags too. The only difference between them and the usa is they don't have a corrupt bernank puppet with a printing press to make unlimited clownbux for their friends.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 10:27 | 3205991 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Do people in Europe pay their own mortgages or is it provided by the state?  Seems to me that they should all march on their capitals and demand free housing along with education, healthcare, jobs etc...

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 10:30 | 3205995 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Seriously, there is absolutely ZERO coverage of Europes problems in the US media anymore.  It is as if an executive order gagging them had been issued.  Stock market + positive media = Confidence..move along

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 11:35 | 3206264 HoaX
HoaX's picture

You miss the days where they used to cry about the end of the Euro day in day out? It has happened for the past 5 years, maybe they got bored? Or maybe they decided to shut the fuck up after John Paulson lost 40bn of his portfolio on Anti-Euro bets last year, who knows.

There´s still plenty of coverage by the way but it seems there are more serious problems at the moment, like the U.S. which MSM have been trying to cover up for years now with their shouting about the Eurozone debt crisis.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 10:44 | 3206037 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Jeroen Dijsselbloem btw is the new Junckers. Soon he will need to lie because it becomes serious.

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 11:15 | 3206180 RougeUnderwriter
RougeUnderwriter's picture

Is this an event of default - are ISDA's going to kick in? Are CDS engaged? Inquirying minds want to know!

Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:12 | 3206578 HoaX
HoaX's picture


Fri, 02/01/2013 - 13:37 | 3206688 Xandrino
Xandrino's picture

Remember, Rabobank got bailed out too, 7 billion from the FED. American taxpayers' money bitchezzz.

ABN AMRO is still unable to pay back the bailout.

ING is fucked.

SNS was NEVER able to stand on its own feet, failed every possible stress test EVER. And NOBODY did shit.


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