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The Government Generously Offers To Help You "Manage” Your Retirement Account

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Via Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

[ZH: We have discussed this threat over the past several years (must read).] The obvious concept is that when the government runs out of money, or they face a drying up in interest for its debt, they will come for the $19.4 trillion in American’s retirement accounts.  It seems that day may be finally drawing near.

I stopped contributing to my 401k back when I worked at Bernstein, and I will probably now have to give more serious consideration whether I want to take the penalty and move the funds out of my retirement account entirely.  I haven’t made any decisions, but will be watching closely.

I’m sure the government is just trying to protect your retirement account from terrorists.

From Bloomberg:

The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is weighing whether it should take on a role in helping Americans manage the $19.4 trillion they have put into retirement savings, a move that would be the agency’s first foray into consumer investments.

 

That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in in terms of whether and what authority we have,” bureau director Richard Cordray said in an interview. He didn’t provide additional details.

 

The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams, according to three people briefed on the CFPB’s deliberations who asked not to be named because the matter is still under discussion.

 

The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Labor are the main regulators of U.S. retirement savings vehicles and funds. However, the consumer bureau — established by the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act — sees itself as a potential catalyst for promoting a coherent policy across the government, the people said.

 

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Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:35 | 3209688 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Get out bitchez!

I sold my investments and cashed in my IRA in late 2008.

Slept better ever since.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:38 | 3209692 CH1
CH1's picture

And so it begins.

There's been a committe at Treasury working on this for 4 years or so. Now they step into the arena.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:46 | 3209702 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

The OECD is "Audrey II," the alien plant from Little Shop of Horrors.

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:48 | 3209716 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

 

The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams,

 

You mean like the scam of being forced to buy T-bills???

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:04 | 3209744 Cdad
Cdad's picture

This has been written about by some for years now.  It shouldn't take long for folks to connect this bright new idea with another one floated almost exactly one year ago:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/treasury-ponders-negative-i...

The question was asked if it made sense for Treasury to permit bids and awards at negative interest rates in marketable Treasury bill auctions. [A Treasury employee] noted that there were operational issues associated with such a rule change, but that the hurdles were not insurmountable. It was the unanimous view of the committee that Treasury should modify auction regulations to permit negative rate bidding and awards in Treasury bill auctions as soon as feasible.

Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee

 

1+1= [bye bye]401[k]

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:27 | 3209793 redpill
redpill's picture

Mandatory treasury holdings in 401k plans is coming, and if you still think that's a conspiracy theory you're a dumbfuck.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:42 | 3209832 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Alex Jones has been warning listeners of this for years. I guess he isn't a wing nut after all

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:14 | 3210037 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

At the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, we are fortunate to count among our staff many of the finest financial analysts in the world.

These fiduciary-like analysts have considerable real-world experience, as evidenced by their large positions in many different markets.

These market positions will guide us in choosing where to invest the 20 trillion under our management.

Our Freedom Stewardship program will also allow us to channel funds safely into higher-risk higher-reward emerging industries (HRHREI) that investors might be hesitant to choose, such as solar energy research, for the betterment of all citizens alike.

The program will instill confidence in American workforce, relieving it of the worry about saving toward retirement.

 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:57 | 3210416 toady
toady's picture

Annnnnd it's gone.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 01:19 | 3210435 SeverinSlade
SeverinSlade's picture
Aside from what this move would mean, the fact that people willfully sign up for a 401K in the first place boggles my mind. Here, hold my money hostage...And penalize and tax me if I ever need to access it.
Sun, 02/03/2013 - 01:47 | 3210456 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Why do you think the $SPX & DOW are at 'all-time' highs?...

~~~

Yup ~ that's right... The teleprompter needs to get his seat warmed up for a second term [and all the new appointments in place]... Need to keep the muppets happy & giddy until the trap door is ready to be sprung...

It's a BONUS that the ammo is getting more scarce during the same process...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:57 | 3210521 your neighbor
your neighbor's picture

they cant do this at dow14K. Easily done at 8K though.

 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 06:33 | 3210625 Popo
Popo's picture

Easier at Dow 8k, but keeping the hand of government out of the world's biggest cookie jar isn't going to be easy at any level.   

Governments (all governments) crave money and power insatiably.  Where there is no pushback, they will go and they will take.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 07:26 | 3210641 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

if the sec cared about protecting customers from financial scams, jon corzine would be in prison.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:26 | 3210764 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Beware the 401K cashouts: beyond the 10% penalty you will pay taxes at the marginal rather than effective tax rate. Not only that, the marginal rate will be the new, higher marginal rate due to the cashout. It will be one hell of an expensive put option.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 11:55 | 3210858 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Better to have 70% of your money now than access to 0% later.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:33 | 3210945 trav777
trav777's picture

Krieger is such an idiot...in one article he says that the market is foodstamps for the 1% then in the next he says that the gov is going to seize market funds.

OK...if they do that, revolution ensues.  Immediately.  The lower portion of the 1% has more numbers and more political power than the top slice just by virtue that they are the business owners and trade classes, the professionals.  The lawyers and doctors are those who lead and start revolutions, not the cretin class or the wymyn's studies majors.

You can't just screw most of the upper class and get away with it.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:30 | 3210767 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You're kind of missing the point...

~~~

You have to take the DOW to 14K ~ then back to 8K to make people go... "Oh No!... Not again... Please ZOG, help me!"

Zog will be VERY NICE & probably give you a nice 20% premium off your 8k balance to sweeten the deal... Hurry in now... Last Chance [or lose it forever]...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 14:54 | 3211293 your neighbor
your neighbor's picture

agree. The fact they are floating this trial balloon (again) could signal a market top. Otherwise, timing for the discussion is stupid.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 11:51 | 3210853 HamFistedIdiot
HamFistedIdiot's picture

I too cashed out in late 2008 after 99% of the public said no bailout to the banker bastards and yet our elected whores went ahead and gave them everything. As well, I agree that a collapse in the DOW will get all the sheep bleating for complete government control of their assets. Type "Argentina, government pension" into a search engine and you will find all sorts of stories in the last decade of private pensions being seized to pay government debt. Say it can't happen here? The psychological warfare is far more sophisticated in the US. The conditions will be manufactured (using media, banker collusion, financial repression, et cetera) such that we beg to be enslaved. At the end there will be war, and of course, we will all forgive Uncle Satan for spending every last penny and fucking our arseholes good when we have to be protected from those dreadful Chinese, a resurrected bin Laden, or whoever can shield the oligarchs from blame. The Rand Corp., the Bohemian Grove folks, and other higher ups will give the green light to the red one being pushed. As the motto of the 33rd degree Masons goes from 1395 "Ordo ab Chao" or "Order out of Chaos."

If the US cared about morals, we wouldn't be trading with China. But now we are suckling from that bliblical She Beast. cf "Clinton Grants China MFN, Reversing Campaign Pledge...President Clinton Thursday reversed course on China and renewed its trade privileges despite what he said was Beijing's lack of significant progress on human rights.... " http://tech.mit.edu/V114/N27/china.27w.html

 

 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 15:27 | 3211375 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The 100% contribution match is a tough carrot to resist.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:42 | 3210511 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

LOL!! exactly what went thru my mind when I read this article. I could see the south park character sitting in the chair with the surprised look on his face. Then I read you comment, almost blew beer out my nose.  Fuck! Looks like it is time to cash in every last electronic dime and convert to physical gold.....crooks, thieves, and swindlers......AKA The Federal Government.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 05:33 | 3210600 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Aspiration of beer through nasal cavity is, how you say, invigoration and refresh. But is blow vodka through sinus is much painful!

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:11 | 3210067 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

We're from the Govt. and we're here to help (ourselves to yer dinero!)

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:56 | 3210243 caconhma
caconhma's picture

A pillage of American people by the zionist oligarchy is in a high gear.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:19 | 3210368 CPL
CPL's picture

No, they get it as well.  While their blade bites in front of them, five old feuds are rekindled along with five blades that slip in their back.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:27 | 3210379 HobbyFarmer
HobbyFarmer's picture

As the gov't pulls trillions out of the market and into bonds, the value of stocks will fall.  People who try to refuse the moving of their 401k's will lose massive amounts of wealth.  Government work in action.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:35 | 3210396 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

Behold the 801k! The government will guarantee its solvancy, but in order to qualify more than 50% must be invested in T-bills!

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:40 | 3210779 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

But $ 19 Trillion will pay the dificit for another 7-8 years. A slow motion train wreck for sure.

Move to Canada over the next two years if you like to work and want to sleep well.  

You can apply as refuges and we will likely accept you.  We accept our friends to the south as people with potential to help pay our deficit :-)  .

 

 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 16:04 | 3211478 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Someone should introduce a version of Godwin's law for blaming the jews. Then we could all dismiss you idiots right away. Oh wait we already can.

Mon, 02/04/2013 - 11:10 | 3213247 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Well, it's not quite what you're looking for, but my current favourite is Poe's Law, which I think is very apropos to the ZH comments section these days:

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake it for the genuine article."

Or, to put it another way:

"Any sufficiently advanced troll is indistinguishable from a genuine kook."

For "Creationist", substitute pretty much any other sort of whack job.  The trolls and the lunatics on ZH have reached that critical point where you can no longer tell them apart, so why bother trying?  Just -1 them all, if it makes you feel better.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 01:54 | 3210462 Just Ice
Just Ice's picture

Yep...another government bureaucracy minted from thin air to require more government employees, public trough perks, benefits, retirement plans, fee collections, all while screwing the public over.  And this one wants to gain direct access to the people's honey (money) pot.  More disgusting overreach.  How to cut government spending?  How about simply starting with the removal of every single new agency/bureaucracy created since 2000.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 05:49 | 3210610 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

I think 1980 would be reasonable

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:49 | 3210995 Hyde_The_Id
Hyde_The_Id's picture

I say before Feb. 3rd 1913

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:49 | 3210998 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I think 1913 has a certain symmetry to it, as well as historical significance.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:39 | 3210210 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

Ya, there are some real concerns about the gobermint acquiring an interest in retirement accounts.

 

I was concerned enough to go another route, using my IRA to fund a startup business and doing so without tax penalties. I found Guidant Financial to be very helpful with this and I would recommend them highly.

 

http://www.guidantfinancial.com/ifinancehome.aspx

 

 

 

 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:00 | 3210473 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Sometimes wing nuts are the best tool for the job.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:01 | 3210866 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Alex Jones . Though I still disagree with some of the things he´s ranting about - especially in the finer details on stuff that I have better knowledge on - this is turning spooky.

I started listening to him for entertainment but he has been proven right on much more than he´s wrong.I ask myself , can it really be that bad....and the answer is....YES. I have to disagree with myself and say...YES

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:51 | 3209854 CPL
CPL's picture

This now opens the door to two things.

 

 

  1. Divide: While the private sector funds are being 'offered' the 'choice' it puts them all into a state of paranoia, waiting to see who slips and who's a shill.
  2. Conquer:  All private federal, state, municipal pensions are going to be mandated to roll under the Treasury and Central authority, directly and statefully.  The sales pitch will ring hollow, but will be passed with a slim vote under the idea that "they are all government, what the fuck does it matter who holds the pot of money as long as it's government people."

So anyone currently on a Federal, State or Municipal pension be VERY forewarned WITH a certainly like the sun rises and sets.  The vacation is over.  You are about to be looted like a drug store in a riot.  Terribly sorry.

To those paying into it, expect your contributions to TRIPLE while this happens.  It will look like unnecessary union, HR, service, ticket, rem, sil...look for those and start adding it up.  Those of you left will be robbed blind regardless of position, rank, opportunity or classification.  

Keep an eye on your HR departments, there's been an uptick in SAP certain types of business modules for all government agencies.  You won't even feel the blade slide in, it's now in all your departments like a rot.  

Good luck to you all now.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:03 | 3209894 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

CPL, good point. The tidy sum in those plans seem ripe for the pickings...the low lying fruit gets picked off first.

 

I notice most of Congress holds theirs in a Roth IRA. That may be a "safer" place. I don't know.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:17 | 3209927 CPL
CPL's picture

Unfortunately not for them either.

 

Their Vacation is over as well.  Who would dare speak up?  

 

Not one of them.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:35 | 3209968 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Occasionaly one does: Cynthia McKinney...Paul Findley...Pete McClosky. ZOG disposes of them quickly. 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 08:47 | 3210676 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I'd say no and the reason is most of the Congress is probably on the take in some way shape or form. Their true retirement funds are the cushy high paying positions sitting on boards of major companies, the same companies that lobby in the name of special interests.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:54 | 3210135 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Congress will exempt themselves from any shitty laws they pass, just like they are exempt from 0bozoScare. I think they will exempt union pensions at the beginning too. They will first go for the 401k's then IRA's then come for the unions last. As usual the union idiots will support the theivery, thinking that they are exempt, until they find out they weren't.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:26 | 3210374 CPL
CPL's picture

As if you would keep puppets for the next act of the play.  They are disposable.  New act.  New puppets.  That's the way it is done and in no other fashion has that changed ever.

The act ends with everyone in the original act betrayed.  Then appause...or silence.  Depends how some other things happen first.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:04 | 3210476 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I am not one of those who believe that the members of Congress rely on salary and pension for their lifestyles when so much more gravy is sloshing around on the platter.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:56 | 3210798 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I don't know about the unions being on board anymore. They just found out Obama pulled the old bait and switch concerning health care effectively killing their competitiveness against non union plans.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-31/labor-unions-finally-read-obama...

I suspect as things get tighter (and they will) there is going to be an alliance albeit an uneasy one between union, libertarian and small govt. minded people in general with the common goal of trying to break the economic stranglehold on the lack of capitol in the private sector.

 

As much as I don't like Romney he was right about bankruptcy forcing clarity. When those that are struggling to put food on the table that don't want to become EBT zombies are going to naturally group together. Lack of jobs and loss of competitive edge will push them to this side of the fence.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:29 | 3210195 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

congress is too busy trying to make sure chuck hagel gets his head straight about who really runs this country-confirmation hearing total- 230 "Israel" mentions- 220 "Iran" mentions- 2 "US serviceman suicide" mentions- 0 mentions of "Yemen, Pakistan drone strikes"

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 23:10 | 3210263 CPL
CPL's picture

And while they are busy doing whatever they do, they'll be looted blind as well.  Not a pot to piss in.  

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:07 | 3209750 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

T-Bills are sound as the dollar! No scam like a government scam.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 06:16 | 3210621 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

T-Bills aren't the problem.  Those are very short term.  Its the 10 year/30 year that are lunacy to hold.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:06 | 3210880 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I agree as much as everyone says invest in gold. Not everyone can because they are limited in how they can invest their savings aka pension funds for example. If you can't buy precious metals or other tangible investment assets short term T-Bills are a good short term vehicle for wealth preservation with a small return on based upon the discount rate in lieu of other options since you'll get the face value on them when they come due. If the T-Bills go then everyone has bigger problems including yourself than you losing your savings.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:46 | 3209996 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams"

Like owning stocks and paying brokerage fees.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:53 | 3210138 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

or investing in a bankrupt government's debt

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:46 | 3209999 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams,

You mean like the scam of being forced to buy T-bills???

The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams, and the bureau wants to make sure that they only fall prey to scams which are managed by the CFPB or CFPB-approved institutions.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 01:26 | 3210440 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Mandatory "risk parity" strategy for all retirement plans.

Not just long treasuries - levered long!

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 08:09 | 3210658 myptofvu
myptofvu's picture

This is nothing but a theory of mine but when Bernanke was asked how his Bond buying wasn't just monetizing the debt he replied "that it wasn't monitization because at some point he was going to sell the Bonds" 

 

Okay, my question is to who are you going to sell those Bonds to? Nobody in their right mind obviously because no one would be that stupid to be the first buyers when they know you have trillions more lined up to sell (talk about buying high and selling low).

 

So now we have a situation where the Fed wants to sell Bonds but has not buyers...Enter the forced Bond buying Law that makes Pension plans and Retirement Plans legally required to be the buyers of the Bonds Bernanke is selling....All for your own good of course. Backed by the full faith and credit blah blah blah

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:42 | 3210782 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Welcome to the enlightened.I posited this a year ago.

It was always Zimbabwe Bens strategy,

You didn't really think the FedRes was going to hold those bag of shit

long term UST's forever did you ?

A stop gap only.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:55 | 3211016 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Can't have the PUMP without the DUMP, don't you know.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 15:23 | 3211366 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

..but, we need to borrow money from ourselves to pay our retirements. It will work this time, we promise.

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:06 | 3210054 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Theft.   We wants - what you got.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:11 | 3210060 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I have a feeling that the Hopers and Thieves will not get yours and mine, Freddie!

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:31 | 3210390 BandGap
BandGap's picture

There was legislation addressing this grab going back to the early 90s.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 03:23 | 3210544 Too Big 2
Too Big 2's picture

I wouldn't be surprised if our government has been talking about "protecting our IRA's" but how do you know that the "Treasury (has been) working on this for 4 years or so."? 

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:09 | 3209752 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

This will be nothing more than another scam to transfer more wealth to Wall Street thugs.

Michael Hudson explains: http://youtu.be/kTxY-oZuxB4?t=6m42s

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:57 | 3211019 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Michael Hudson? Ugh. You know he's a neo- Marxist, right?

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:16 | 3209926 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

ditto 'Bearing, cashed out in '06, paid my penalty, bought physical Au & Ag, done quite well I might say. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THIEVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:10 | 3209967 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes.  I should clarify: I sold the all investments in my IRA in 2008 (although I have sold a little bit since then).  I still have some stocks and (about to mature) Treasuries elsewhere.

And, UGH as to what to do with the money once I am not getting the 3.7%-odd (average, bought kind of long ago) on my Treasuries.  Probably will buy more gold, but I have plenty now.

"Diversification" is one of my middle names too...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:06 | 3210478 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

DoChen, with the addition of Diversification, you now have more middle names than a 'suspected' serial killer.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:52 | 3210233 seek
seek's picture

Yep, I did the same thing and got out. As soon as there was a whiff of controlling withdrawls to money market funds I knew I was never going to have a dime again in IRAs or other "mainstream" investment products.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 08:21 | 3210657 Being Free
Being Free's picture

I started my IRA withdrawals in 2008 well before 59.5 years old using the 72(t) exception rule which eliminates the 10% penalty for early withdrawal.  Only drawback is the distribution (penalty free) is limited but some is better than none and to get at it without paying the extra 10% to the IRS bastards is priceless.  So far I've gotten ~$100k out penalty free.

Not many know about this little exception to the penalty for early withdrawal as .gov and most financial planners don't like to advertise it - go figure.  Here is some info on it:  http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0602/141.html

[edit] here is a nice 72(t) calculator: http://www.401kplanning.org/calculators-tools/calculator-for-determining-early-72t-withdrawals/

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 12:07 | 3210885 ImReady
ImReady's picture

Wow, great info! 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 13:43 | 3211114 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Here are a few links to the current info to do the calculations.

Life expectancy tables (Appendix C, IRS Pub 590): http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p590.pdf#page=94

Applicable Federal Inerest rates for Feb 2013, (see IRS Rev. Rul. 2013-3 Table 1): http://apps.irs.gov/app/picklist/list/federalRates.html

Was amazed at how low the interest rates are (half of what they were back in '08) which will unfortunately make the amount you can withdraw a lot less...(Thanks Bernanke)...at least the most recent rates are a bit higher than the last few months.  You can play around with the calculation and see the impact that rates have and decide for yourself when/if to pull the triger on taking this approach.  Once made you're locked in if you want to retain the penalty exemption.

Good Luck.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 23:34 | 3210313 Positive Dennis
Positive Dennis's picture

Jan 2014 for me.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 13:28 | 3211073 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

“The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scam”

This statement is so rich in manure one hardly knows where to begin cleaning it up a little bit. I guess the place to start is by asking what these clowns would term Social Security. They stole all the money we contributed to pay for our benefits and spent it. Now they’re in the process of slowly screwing people who are reaching retirement age, by a variety of devices. You ask met that qualifies as a Royal Scam.

But forget about Social Security. Do you think if maybe the government had an SEC that actually enforced the law that might tend to diminish the likelihood of people getting scammed? Just maybe?

Or what about the CFTC – the Commodies Futures Trading Corporation – that’s supposed to regulate things like, oh the futures brokers like the one Corzine used to steal billions, and the silver and gold futures markets. Do you think that maybe actually prosecuting actual open, continuing, regular, and predictable fraud might help out on preventing those scams that these clowns are talking about?

It hardly stops there. Do you think if maybe the Fed had actually regulated the banking system as it is charged with doing, and if the Department of so-called Justice (I’ll pause here for you to laugh at that last word in this context) had prosecuted financial criminals that we might not have been scammed and robbed for the last 10 years plus?

I kind of think that any entity that demonstrates the degree of either malevolence or incompetence that the govt has when it tries to “help” me in my financial affairs is something I want to run screaming from if it starts making noises about “helping” me again.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 15:01 | 3211312 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

You go for a joy ride ride in a "borrowed" vehicle...you get slammed for 2-5 years.

 

You steal $1.6 Billion ....you receive a Golden Chute and remodel your mansion on Long Island.

 

The New Paradigm.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:36 | 3209690 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Good. Maybe then the few who still love the government will wake the fuck up.

And as always ``it's for your own good``... YEAH RIGHT.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:43 | 3209707 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

A forced flight to safety. Hahahahahaaaa

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:13 | 3210164 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

A forced flight to safety. Hahahahahaaaa

All aboard the Liberty Express, folks! Yes, they might look like cattle cars, but they're really Freedom Freighters.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:19 | 3210369 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

And there's free Slurpees!

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:07 | 3210479 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

16 ounce cup maximum, please.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:00 | 3209887 tango
tango's picture

Get serious, lolmao. Maybe then the few who still love the government will wake the fuck up. These are the very folks who save nothing and push for more federal programs. They'd WANT the State to let them use someone else's retirement. What I don't understand - Why in the world, considering the government's record of fiscal disaster would anyone with an atom of sense would want them as money managers?  It is beyond me.  Worse, what do they hope to accomplish with this ploy?  Consideringn many would cash out first, the amount collected is only a blip on the downward spiral. 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:00 | 3210321 20834A
20834A's picture

They'll put limits on amounts allowed to be taken out and force you to leave a 'loss-leader' amount (2-5%).

http://www.ici.org/pdf/13_mmf_prime.pdf

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:54 | 3210797 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

More likely they will convert to the UK model.

Used to be:max 50% of fund cash out,after age 55,remaining 50% compulsory purchase

annuity,invested in guess what ? UK gilts.

I believe its now been changed to 25% cash out.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 03:33 | 3210551 Lore
Lore's picture

Good point. A child offered a candy is not concerned with the source of the candy.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:49 | 3210006 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

They will awaken ... to the utopian promises of the socialists. It's very simple: when your shitty government monopoly inevitably fails, blame the greedy private sector, demand even more control, and start a new shitty government monopoly. And the people fall for it. Every. Fucking. Time.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:37 | 3210209 GCT
GCT's picture

Toten we have a long ways to go befoe the sheeple wake up here my friend.  You would have to impose lower entitlement programs and they will wake up.  First they must disarm the populice before they start cutting the handouts!

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 10:38 | 3210778 tango
tango's picture

I am the very opposite of a conspirator but this I can believe easily.   Folks forget that wealth taking ALWAYS has support, particularly the intellectual elite.  They think they are morally correct - helping the little guy, being fair, blah blah  Sure, producers and savers  - the backbone of our society - will be hurt but it'll be shared sacrifice.  Remember what's important - those who don't/can't/won't save, getting federal aid, voting for Obama.  Get your priorities straight!

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:38 | 3209696 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I would rather wipe my ass with a " Pine cone"!

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:39 | 3209698 Mr. Dew
Mr. Dew's picture

Presenting the Crony Financial Protection Bureau.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:40 | 3209699 bobthehorse
bobthehorse's picture

This type of global recession usually leads to war.

I worry about that quite a bit.

I can handle poverty.

Death is a different matter all together.

http://www.angrysinner.blogspot.kr/2013/02/yesterday-morning-i-had-hankering-for.html

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:47 | 3209795 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

This guy ^^ is a Sockpuppet Troll 1of(?) that keeps posting here in order to promote what many have said is "the stupidest fucking blog I've ever seen"

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:29 | 3209957 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Unfortunately the Tylers don't react quick enough to these spambot accounts.  Those upvotes are all from the same user with separate accounts but I'm sure the IP could be banned.

Don't tell people it's the stupidest blog ever because knowing how stupid people are they are more likely to go just to see it.  It's in South Korea btw (the .kr).

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:40 | 3209980 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

If it even had ads you might think he was hoping for a stray click.  As is?  WTF???

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:08 | 3210483 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Lots of wimmen at Jonestown and Waco too. There's somebody for everyone, no matter how lame or hopeless.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:10 | 3210059 Lendo
Lendo's picture

That blog sucks BTW

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 23:45 | 3210332 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

One of the other puppets is a 'Clara' something or other, so I know there's at least 2.  (Which means, I can has two accounts?)

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:40 | 3209701 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Every client I have has said that if the feds make a move on their Ira's or 401ks they will take the penalties and pull everything.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:47 | 3209712 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I would expect rules guarding against withdrawal (ala social security age restrictions) prior to forcing 401ks into go ernment debt. It's the dictators way.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:50 | 3209722 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I know that they are paying very close attention to it. The topic comes up with almost every discussion.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:40 | 3210114 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Good to hear that they are aware.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 08:52 | 3210681 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I'm sure that 'penalties for early withdrawl' are only the tip of the iceberg...

~~~

I haven't read mentioned on this thread that once these funds are held by the government, GOOD LUCK in passing any kind of inheritance to your kids [from WHAT WAS your 401k]... They'll find a way to KEEP IT ALL...

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 22:48 | 3210226 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I have heard the concerns as well.  It wouldn't take much for some people to pile out.  And, I suspect, the government knows this.  After all, they take the 10% early withdrawal penalty and the taxes (as ordinary income) in the year it's withdrawn.  Rough numbers, you know this means you clear about $1 net for every $2 you withdrawal if you're under 59-1/2.  So the question is.... do you lose half for sure or do you take the Treasuries they're going to cram down your throat and hope for the best?

I know what ZH'ers would say to that, but it's not what everyone would say.

Still, I suspect there would be more of a fight put up over this than many here suspect.  I seriously doubt this would stand up to a test in court if the new CFPB tried it.  But with courts these days, who knows.  Obama's going to have to appoint a few more Supreme Court judges before he tries this one, I think.  Maybe he'll drone stike the Supreme Court and then get to replace all of them at once!!

Anywho... if the government "forced" this situation it would probably be apparent we were nearing the end of the US and it's economy rather rapidly.  Probably not far from the "roving bands of looters in every major city" part of the collapse.  Bigger fish to fry at that point.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:15 | 3210489 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Obama keeps getting WAAAAAAY too much credit for the stupid evil shit that the feds keep pulling. He's just the greeter for Wash-Mart. The store owners have already decided how it's going down.

There is no need for new Supremes to enact this stuff. Look at their record. No matter how they supposedly feel about abortion, guns or school prayer, they have continually lined up to support the people who own them when individual freedoms and property rights are being auctioned off.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:56 | 3209731 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

If you roll over to an IRA LLC, you don't have to worry about taxes or withdrawal restrictions.  You can invest in almost aything, even real metals which you pull out of the system.  Hurry before they close this escape hatch.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:01 | 3209741 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

no offense but i don't think IRA's will outrun this tsunami

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:30 | 3209781 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

You will have to give them the finger when they demand that you sell everything and invest in "save" Treasuries, but by then the country will be in chaos, bureaucrats will be paid in TP and your metals will be safely lost in a boating accident.  Pay them off with paper shares of your LLC or SLV certificates of confiscation (backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government and going on Craigslist for 3 cents on the dollar).  You just have to stall until they collapse completely.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:31 | 3209805 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

 when they demand that you sell everything

They wont demend anything, they'll just play MFG

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:01 | 3210019 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

They can't Corzine metals if they don't know where you physically put them, and you can take delivery with an IRA LLC.  That's the whole point.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 01:40 | 3210449 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

They'll just imprison you, indefinitely, or label you a terrorist, or better yet, one of your asshole colleagues at work will tell the wonderful government you're a terrorist and tell them where you have your shit. And if that still doesn't flush out the holdings, they'll just kill you. Problem solved.

By the way, I know stupid coworkers who would finger me, stupid bitches. I hope they lose their shit before they point anyone in my direction... or that I am no longer their coworker when the shit happens.  I am absolutely sick of the fucking snitch type of cunts that call themselves patriots / good people. They have no fucking clue what they're doing...

Your IRA LLC is a pipe dream... a pipe bomb, that will explode in your ass. The government assholes are changing laws by the minute, what makes you so certain you have any recourse when the policies are changed and they demand the funds from you.  Your best bet, get out of the IRA scam, do something with the funds, but keep it out of the loop.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:17 | 3210491 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Time for a phattie, my friend. This too shall pass.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 06:07 | 3210617 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Sounds like a Good plan for those that don't mind the paperwork and compliance of initial setup.

Also gives you control over your IRA for your own benefit so to speak.

At least you can't have your IRA frozen if you control it...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 11:50 | 3210850 ultraticum
ultraticum's picture

New World is right that IRA LLC is the best way (short of penalty/tax now) to get control of your IRA.   You can buy foreign real estate, PMs, apartment buildings.  Lots of things you can't do at a conventional brokerage (aka agent/arm of the government). 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 11:04 | 3210803 tango
tango's picture

New world Chaos - you are so right. By the time this occurs things will be effing chaotic that it won't matter. Markets crashed, massive funds reallocated, bank runs, etc. The House would never go along with such insanity so it would have to be done in stages -probably starting with state pensions ("to protect them") then branching. Jesus, this scene plays out over and over always with the same ending. Folks can talk themselves into any crazy belief - aliens are driving history, people should be killed because of their religion or skin shade, it's OK to steal for a "good" reason. They'll support thugs, religious nuts, dictators and those who make no secret of their hatred of personal liberty. Never doubt the degree of self-delusion.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:53 | 3210022 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Precisely. Go to bed one day saying "maybe I'll cash out tomorrow". Wake up the next day and it's illegal - and effectively impossible because do you not have physical possession of the assets in question.

I think there's some quote used metaphorically to describe such things ...

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:52 | 3210130 Gideon Gono
Gideon Gono's picture

Agreed.  I pulled all mine end of last year, paid the penalties and taxes, about 40% of the total.  The time to move is now before the herd moves. 

I also think 40% is a bargain compared to what the tax rates will be when I retire

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:48 | 3209718 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Doc you know the deal. They will crash it first. Then offer a guaranteed income (age based with certain riders, sound familiar?) on a value that is higher than the post crash value. But the principal basically is illiquid now. It's gonna be an offer you can't refuse.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 18:54 | 3209730 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Yeah I know. That's the trial balloon they floated back in 08. People were hostile to the idea then, and I know they are very concerned about it now. It's a very hot topic to be sure.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:05 | 3209747 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I realize you guy guys make money off of wealth management.  I was walking this morning and my neighbors asked for my help to re-invest 700k  for a positive/passive income as they just spent 1.5 million on their new home .

  My neighbors made a fortune off of bonds, and paid their rental property off. (700k) equity. They want more passive income.

  I suggested "multi family rentals" condos apts. ect/ 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:16 | 3209771 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

 

Everything has risk.  The one thing that has evolved of late is "professional property management". 

Wall Street, as part of its usual lies, enacted a huge advertising campaign telling older folks (remember, always, the rich are generally over 55, compounding takes time) that "when you're old you just don't have the inclination to deal with all the hassles of owning rental property, so sell it all and send the money to a "balanced mutual fund portfolio", aka, Wall Street.

For a very long time that worked.  Since the Apocalypse began, not so much.  Professional property management takes 8-10% of rent and you sit back and collect what's left each month.  The manager handles repairs, tenant screeening, between tenant cleanings, etc.  The landlord may only see his property every 3 years or so.

But he does see that monthly check, and if it's time for a rent increase, the manager will know it.

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:21 | 3209780 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Thanks for your input Crash. I'll forward over.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 02:01 | 3210474 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Tell them to just hand it over to a Rothchild... Maybe that would be enough to buy the rights to become their dog walker...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 03:36 | 3210526 Lore
Lore's picture

Re: "I suggested "multi family rentals" condos apts"

A lot of people seem to be setting themselves up as future slum lords.  It must take a special constitution to put up with other people's crap 24/7.  I wouldn't touch that for the world.

I'll take my wealth out of the system entirely and look for greener pastures.

The timing of this article is interesting. The DJIA hits 14,000, and now we get trial-ballooned with something that should be sufficient to crash markets?  WHAT THE HECK? 

Why didn't this come out before the election? You don't think it was held back deliberately...?

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:40 | 3209823 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

And if being a property manager sounds like gravy and biscuits, think again.  It's a miserable job, 24X7X365, and being the man in the middle means that both the owners and the residents (we don't call them tenants any longer) hate your guts equally.  I did it for nearly 20 years and that's why I'm a cranky old geezer now.  Most states require that you have a real estate license as well, so throw that into the mix.  I'd never do it again... ever.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:46 | 3209843 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Is that true of all racoons?

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:56 | 3209876 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That was a good comment D/C/R/B.   I was on the Private Equity side of ideas. 

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 13:18 | 3211058 Hulk
Hulk's picture

RR's resident's main complaint was that he kept going through their garbage and kept his family up in the attic...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 16:14 | 3211495 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

And eating the catfood they left out.....

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:18 | 3209774 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Did you also mention perhaps, the concept of "counter-party risk" or maybe increasing local property taxes going to the moon on all properties not occupied by the owner?  Gotta fund those "services" ya know.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 00:28 | 3210380 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

How's this for counter-party risk: some shithead tenant pays first, last, and deposit, and then doesn't give you another dime for a year while you try and evict them, and then trashes the place when you finally get them out.

You're out a year's rent, and thousands in repairs.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:18 | 3209775 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Yen everyone is fked. Your buddy will buy multi family rentals and Uncle Sam will eventually cap how much rent he can charge. I mean it's only fair. How dare he charge more rent than people can pay. Once your buddy coughs up the apartment the gubbamint or some hedgie that gets to play by different rules will pick it up and manage to do just fine with it.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:23 | 3209788 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm confused? R/E stocks are ballistic. Home builders are "gung ho" over [multi family] construction.

  What am I missing?

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:34 | 3209802 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This article is about the gov't taking over the retirement market. I take it a step further. This is about gov't getting their hands into anything that can generate cash flow for them. We are slowly turning into Russia. There is nowhere to hide. Going broke is a real bitch. I literally today had someone lay out the whole scenario we describe on here everyday. They concluded with "so how do we make money?".

That is what everyone wants to know. How do they make money in the middle of the slow collapse of society and a desperate bankrupt government flailing and reaching out for everyone's stash to keep their dream alive for another day. I don't think the neurons in people's brains are firing correctly if their main concern is how to make money.

That ain't me with the red arrow.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:39 | 3209821 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Fonz I totally agree, we are turning into Russia. The bankrupt governmentwill make an atempt to seize all "private property" ( if there is such a thing) just to keep power as long as possible.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:42 | 3209834 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   I think Dr.E. is on to something.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:54 | 3209861 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Doc knows hit shit.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:04 | 3209895 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I think you are highly intelligent Fonz/  I post on Zero Hedge, because I like to be questioned.

  I have {Zero Interest} in popularity contests.  Like me/Hate me < I have traversed the " Financial Hood">

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:24 | 3209943 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I appreciate the compliment Fonz, however I am humbled by how much I don't know when reading what the Tylers write ,and from what you and the commentators have to say.

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 01:06 | 3210425 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Doc, I'm gonna have to start calling you "biscuit."  You get all the gravy!

I have a similar opinion of ZH.  It's required reading for those who want to understand the cutting edge of fraud and creeping government take-over (explained in terms a regular person can understand).  I consider it my "distant early warning system".  The day the government can pull the trigger on something faster than ZH can give you ample warning will be the day you know it's time for all of us to hang up our skates.

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:53 | 3209858 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Like Argentina seized their private pensions.  Think Obama might not have such ideas percolate up from Chavez and Kirchner?  Think again.

GET OUT!  Pay your taxes and penalties, play it safe.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 19:55 | 3209865 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

As long as he leaves the federal workers alone. If he took theirs that would be rude.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:47 | 3210002 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

As long as he leaves the federal workers alone. If he took theirs that would be rude.

It is called the Thrift Savings Plan and you may NOT cash it in unless you are retiring... currently. I think there is enough cash there to start with them before moving on to 401(k)s. We know Timmy has used the G Fund like a dealer's stashbox, so why not.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:54 | 3210027 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Bendromeda strain? Holy crap that is one of the best names I have seen on here yet!

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:56 | 3210025 Arrowflinger
Arrowflinger's picture

I read something like 8 years ago that there were unfunded liabilities of $half-trillion each in both military and federal pensions.

I would question how much is even there.

FASB 157 lets all fund managers lie about asset values.

 

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:36 | 3209971 TimmyM
TimmyM's picture

Or take a baby step:
Contribute enough to a 401k to get the match. Then leave the matching part in there and borrow your contribution back out and buy precious metals while paying interest to yourself.

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:42 | 3209990 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That looks like it would work as well.  My bank, in fact, did suggest that I could borrow against my IRA, but I just wanted OUT, and selling it all and cashing it in was simple.

See that round hole where a brain should be?  Bearings like things kept simple...

:)

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 20:49 | 3210007 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

That is the only game in town for TSP...

Sun, 02/03/2013 - 08:17 | 3210656 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

You are right, Argentina was there first, Argentina was once a great nation, hit the skids in the 1930s never recovered, maybe that is the fate of the US,the argentization of the US economy

 

Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:18 | 3210081 Bandit und Buster
Bandit und Buster's picture

 

"We have exterminated the property owners in Russia.We are going to do the same  thing in Europe and America." (TheJew, December 1925, Zinobit)
Sat, 02/02/2013 - 21:59 | 3210142 klockwerks
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