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The Government Generously Offers To Help You "Manage” Your Retirement Account
Via Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
[ZH: We have discussed this threat over the past several years (must read).] The obvious concept is that when the government runs out of money, or they face a drying up in interest for its debt, they will come for the $19.4 trillion in American’s retirement accounts. It seems that day may be finally drawing near.
I stopped contributing to my 401k back when I worked at Bernstein, and I will probably now have to give more serious consideration whether I want to take the penalty and move the funds out of my retirement account entirely. I haven’t made any decisions, but will be watching closely.
I’m sure the government is just trying to protect your retirement account from terrorists.
From Bloomberg:
The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is weighing whether it should take on a role in helping Americans manage the $19.4 trillion they have put into retirement savings, a move that would be the agency’s first foray into consumer investments.
That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in in terms of whether and what authority we have,” bureau director Richard Cordray said in an interview. He didn’t provide additional details.
The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams, according to three people briefed on the CFPB’s deliberations who asked not to be named because the matter is still under discussion.
The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Labor are the main regulators of U.S. retirement savings vehicles and funds. However, the consumer bureau — established by the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act — sees itself as a potential catalyst for promoting a coherent policy across the government, the people said.
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Fascinating. If no charges are filed, why were the weapons seized at all, and by whose authority?
"Something seriously smells here. How can you be investigated for years, yet upon serving a search warrant you don’t put forth any charges against a man when you confiscate nearly 1,500 firearms?"
The owner presumably kept complete inventory. Might be informative to observe what gets returned.
I'd argue they are doing just that now (private property grab) by having the Federal Reserve buy up all those toxic turds of MBSs sitting on the banks balance sheets. The question and I don't know the answer, does the FED become the landlord on all those properties or do they try to sell off the MBSs back to the banks to foreclose on the properties and put them back on the market in a slow controlled trickle?
Fonz
How do we make money?
Make stuff, move stuff, fix stuff, teach stuff, guard stuff.
And Russia is turning into what the US used to be, a free market economy.
Rents in LV are already capped. It's the future. Just as Mediare/Medicaid payments to doctors are capped, rents will be capped also I suspect.
The time to get out of the multi family market was 2007.
They don't have to cap rent per se, they can just run the numbers (area jobs, salaries, turnover / churn of available jobs, transportation costs and more cost of living data) and tweak taxes and regulations and leave the rest to math. In fact that already happens. As a landlord you are essentially besieged, especially if you are in a potentially high value area. You will suddenly see water rates explode, transit will slow, shit like that. I am a landlord in NYC, I see it happen in front of my very eyes.
Great ideas about using your 50% 401k loan option, fuck the casino let them eat their own shit and die. I'll keep the value of my labor thank you vert much but you Mr Gov. can have a healthy portion of what you would serve me.
The only real estate plan that seems to make any sense in this environment assuming the numbers work is to do the following. Buy a bunch of foreclosures up on the cheap. Go find some ebt zombies and get them signed up on as many govt programs as possible. Park as many of them as you legally can into each foreclosure and take a cut of the govt cheese to pay the monthly mortgage payments and maybe utilities also depending along with a little extra for your pocket.
Interesting story yen cross, this kind of thing happens to me from time to time, I like to recommend a mixture of high dividend and small cap equities and depending on how much money we are talking about I like to recommend classic cars as the best hard asset:
http://www.historicautogroup.com/
http://bit.ly/VeqfU4
http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/market-trends
Sorry if this is OT gang but Ive been wanting to air this:
Car collecting is the best hard asset investment I know, its really something that requires very little scale, just 1 classic car is a superb investment for anybody. The beauty is I would say that the best values out there can be had for under $75k at the moment which means there is not a high barrier to entry and that subset is where you can expect the fastest value appreciation. Some of the very best cars to buy at the moment are the ones just becoming classics from 1970-1995. Every car, no matter how collectible goes through a value trough of depreciation for about 10-15 years, after which the iconic ones from that period begin gaining in value as collectors buy them up. It also coincides with the fact that the many guys who dreamed of these cars when they were growing up are now in the position to buy a gently used version of their dream cars.
Also generally as of late (past decade) there has been a tremendous pickup in volume of transactions and year after year of shattering auction records. The reason is we are seeing a huge trend where baby boomers, who maybe have one or two classic cars in the garage, are either getting to old to enjoy and maintain them or want to cash out at ever risng price for retirement are selling their cars to big collectors or to private museums (50+ cars), where in many cases money is of no object. Many of these cars will not come on the market again as big collectors (think jay leno) have the money to keep them in the familly forever.
This is causing a goldrush sort of where collectors rush to get their hands on the best ORIGINAL (untouched and unrestored) cars at huge premiums. If you have the opportunity to put one of these away now youcan expect it to double by the end of the decade.
Thiink of the economics of car collecting: demand is only going one way- UP. At the moment there is not a SINGLE Classic car in China because as of now china has no provision to import anything oer than new cars. At the same time, supply is only going way DOWN. Cars from that era were produced in extremely limited quantities- production output was nothing like today- Ferrari only built 6000 total cars from 1948-1967. and every single year out of this very fixed supply, a few cars are crashed, or are rusted beyond repair,, or are poorly restored (just as bad), or are parted out to keep others alive. So the already limited quantities are dwindling and the demand only gets bigger as more and more new money floods the markets and collectors have to compete harder to get their hands on the best.
I'd agree with one caveat: The classic car market is best done by those who know what they are doing. Mis-matched numbers, hidden resto problems, and other such arcane aspects are things that will burn the novice. As a numismatist there is no way I advocate the casual buyer to get into rare coins without a mentor or trusted agent. It's a high bar information field, just like some other areas, like fine art. Too many folks get onto the intertubes and become instant "experts" just to have their arse hair scorced off in the first big buy. Even worse, they hang onto their purchase, waiting for all that appreciation to happen, and find out they have a bogus artifact upon selling. I've seen plenty of counterfeit coins that "were part of my dear old Dad's cherished collection" -- fake.
Very true, althoigh its difficult to "fake" a car in most cases (except at the top level) as serial numbers are extremely well known and besides in 100% of cases, though you could theoretically fool an amateur on a fake classic car, its almost impossible to do with a real expert. Really, the biggest mistake I often see people make is to treat it as a buying a fun toy. Thats a great way to lose a lot of money.
However there are some segments of the market that are close to bulletproof such as original (901) porsches etc. Etc.
Ive often referred clients to reputable dealers (with independent inspections of course) with good results.
How was I supposed to know that dear old Dad loved to collect fake coins?
Thanks for your input Whiteshadowmovement
That was a good post.
Thanks yencross, im fairly new here but ive been reading for a long time and ive always appreciated your posts
Guys if you want to see the frenzy in the classic car market even at the lowest level, check out the following site:
Bringatrailer.com
I've get a '72 Olds 98 sitting in the driveway. Planned on using the engine block for heavy cover when the Golden Horde erupts up the 101 from LA. U Want it come get it.
Lol, if only it was that easy...
Got a '64 or '65 Porsche 911 or perhaps a BMW E9 CSL? Ill send you a check right now, sight unseen. Hell the market for American muscle is really soft but what the hey, got a 435 corvette, ill bring a trailer...
The classic car investment scale works a little like this:
1. Rarity- those cars if whih the fewest models are made
2. Originality- a perfect example should be 100% factory original incl. Paintwork
3. Condition- car should show as little wear, tear and deay as possible
4. Icon status- any popculture icons like the mercedes gullwing or etype but also deloreans etc.
5. Limited editions- those models which have the highest specs, especially engine output
6. Useability: its no fun if the car cant keep up with traffic so thats why 60's sports cars mark a golden era and the 1960-95 period a golden era of engineering before computers infiltrated car design and made sure everything lookef and drove the same.
7. Reliability: some cars (jags, alfas) are notorious for problems and high maintenance bills and this depreciates them a bit, while other cars like porsches are on the other hand notoriously reliable
Old 4 wheel drives like Chevy Blazers, Ford Broncos, IH Scouts, Land Cruisers, Jeeps, and Land Rovers seem to be exploding in value.
Original broncos are skyrocketing. Defenders seem to hold their value. The biggest appreciation in classic 4x4s is in the original (W460) Mercedes G-Wagens, especially the 2 doors as they are no longer veing produced
I have an old Bronco that has been in the family since 1969. It has a legend with it documented in pictures.
Keep it in the family and try to amass as detailed and extensive a service/history file as you can, it will contninue to appreciate strongly
http://bringatrailer.com/2012/07/25/blue-chip-1977-ford-bronco/
On a long enough timeline, the best vehicle to have (in most part of the U.S.) is an old chevy truck. There are parts aplenty everywhere -- if you break down in the woods, chances are the closest farmer has some junk Chevy in his barn that you can use for spare parts.
I think you're right from a practical standpoint, but I am referring to the aspect of the classic car market that mirrors the high end art market
Right you are. I'm simply suggesting that you sell your high end investment before the crash and use some of the proceeds to buy a proper bug out vehicle.
Just don't forget to put costs of insurance,storage,security,maintenance, specialty fuels (non-E-10/15/85) restoration etc. in the investment equation. In addition, who has the crystal ball on future value of "collector"cars? Don't get me wrong, I am one of these alternate investors (multiple cars) but always worry should the whole thing collapse. Only have to watch the various auctions to see the buyers are predominately "old white guys" which begs the question of who buys their collections as they die off in the perpetual down cycle of willing buyers. I doubt that their heirs will want to do anything other than liquidate for the fast cash. In any case I will continue to restore and hold as what I love, but could bite me where it hurts.
Yes of course, one can never forget other input costs but there are ways to defray that. I realize this may not be an option for everyone but depending on where you live, you can make good money loaning cars out for film/magazine/commercial shoots- there is a bottomless demand in some cities for classic cars for this purpose. I make about $1000 per 3 day commercial shoot, sometimes much more depending on the car and how badly they need it.. Insurance over that time is on them for 150% of the cars value. I do at least one of these per month here in Cape Town. As I said not everyone can expect to break even on costs but perhaps being a classic car owner you can attest to the fact that the joy of classic motoring is in many instances well worth it.
As to who will buy them, as I noted above we are currently seeing a huge trend where small collectors (1-3 cars) are liquidating these cars as they either get too old to enjoy/maintain them or want to cash in for retirement and the cars are going to big money-is-no-object collections of 50+ cars. In many cases we can expect these private museums to keep these cars for a long long time. Think really big money here. A few million dollars in cars is nothing to some people.
The part about the crystal ball is more difficult, certain sectors of the market go up and down like all markets, but as I outlined above, one can be pretty sure of a scale of what makes a car collectible and if you have rarity, originality and icon status on your side, its very very hard to lose money long term. Like I said, anyone here have a 64 Porsche 911 or BMW E9 CSL etc. I will buy it from you sight unseen. The key words in the car market are: "original" "matching numbers" and "unrestored"
The only guaranteed way of losing money I know is when a novice attempts a restoration project (youll end up with 30-40 cents on the dollar of what you paid) or when they buy a car cause its a fun toy but has zero historical provenance, in the latter case you wont even beat inflation.
Point taken but big difference between your situation where you likely have been "building" your business (investment) for many years. When you started it was a no- brainier but not so sure now with seemingly never ending env and other regs continuing to pile on. One small example is the years it takes to acquire the tools and equipment for this hobby, albeit part of the investment. Like they say, takes money to make money.
Boy and how, the internet has changed everything, i remember even the late 90's, early 2000's you could find unspeakably good deals by going direct to collectors through little ads in the back of car magazines etc. These days the only no brainer deals like that are the ones where you get there before anyone else when a car is listed, or take a big chance on an iffy car and get lucky. Again, this is not advice for everybody but there are also very interesting arbitrage opportunities in some markets. For instance, some RHD markets like Australia, South Africa etc. forbid LHD imports almost completely. So certain in demand cars, even most classics, can only be sourced from other RHD countries. So specifically, whenever you see the GBP drop, Australians bleed the UK car market totally dry.
Always good to meet a fellow classicmcar enthusiast on ZH, see you around and I wish you all the best with your collection!
By the way, just my $0.02 and of course again this depends where you live, but I am fairly unconcerned about environmental and other regs.
2 things:
-The classic car collector lobby is very powerful and influential, and big collectors dont like to have their toes stepped on (remember when they changed the law just so Bill Gates could import his Porsche 959?). So any further regulations will be very likely to carry age exmeptions for classics.
-I believe even environmentalists will tolerate classic cars due to the fact that in the next 20 years you will see a majority of new cars going either fully or partly hybrid and the CO2 issue will get resolved that way. Classic cars will become just like the horses of old, freed from being beasts of burden, their nu,bers will shrink significantly, and just as now, they will remain a leisure item for enthusiasts and the wealthy.
I actually happen to think classic car mechanics/restoration is an excellent career choice for you people as good ones can charge $120+ per hour of labor
Thanks for your kind comments and my well wishes back to you. I agree that the hobby has horsepower (sorry for pun) but for how long? The gov't push for higher content E is the continuing creeping influence that I don't like. Of course we know it's politics and money as usual. Until this administration, my current concerns over our hobby/ business/ investment viability never crossed my mind. Here' s to hoping we outlive any real detrimental gov't action!
Hey dont worry, if the US ever goes that far and takes detrimental action to that effect, I promise you the rest of the world will buy your classics from you with open arms!
Do you know what the current number of classic cars is in China at the moment? Zero. There has never been a classic car ever once imported for sale there as China has no provisions for the importation of anything other than new cars.
Look at luxury goods spending all around emerging markets just like China. Ferrari and Bentley sales growth are off the charts there. So the demand for a rare car that can set you apart is well established.
Now imagine what happens when these guys understand that classic cars are probably the single most powerful way to convey coolness and prestige. And on top of that, unlike the luxury items they currently buy (l ike new Ferraris, Louis Vuitton bags), classic cars are actually a fairly decent store of value!
Imagine the potential boom, its not out of the realm of possibility that classic car prices double or triple by the time the Chinese take an interest in them!
And as I noted, look at my post above, I referenced several charts, one of them shows classic Ferrari prices tripled since 2006. They are never coming back down. They only made 6000 total cars from 1948-1967. High barrier to entry (Even 246 Dinos are up to a quarter mil, though you can still get a good 365 GTC/4 for half that and they are great cars, one of e best v12s Ferrari ever made and a production of just 500 units:
http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/101926/index.html?ret=63&request%5B...
http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/Search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid...
So classic Ferraris are the bluest of blue chips but they carry a $100k minimum buy in. Though personally, I would argue the best investment ANYWHERE in the Ferrari world is to pick up a good, full service history, well maintained F355 manual. Its an icon and was one of the very best cars of its day. The last of Ferraris pre-computer cars:
You can get a really decent one in the mid-$50,000's:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-355-Convertible-1999-Ferrari-F355...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-355-95-FERRARI-F355-SPIDER-MANUAL...
I wont pretend maintenance wont cost you, but its a lot of smiles for e money too.
If someone is buying just 1 classic, you almost cant go wrong wth a good pre-73 Porsche 911 (even SCs and 3.2s are rocketing up, not to mention 993s), then youll get the whole package and a useable car that will deliver miles and miles of fun and very low maintenance costs
All the best!
@Doc- This is fact. Many of us have done so. But doesn't the gubment want this right now? Many of us are playing into their hand. When we pull out the 'money', we are pulling forward tax 'revenues' that are desperately needed by TPTB to reduce short-term deficits. There is also the affect of that 'money' being put back into other 'investments' as well as boosting some short-term spending with some of that 'money' as well. So, this boosts the velocity of 'money', which is what this collapse is all about after all...
We could also have a long conversation about inflation potential and resource scarcity...
As consumers, there is no winning move. The only way to win is to not play...
No amount of tax revenue from penalties is going to save them. They just had a 62 billion dollar tax increase and spent it two days later. But give them 19 trillion and that us quite another story.
Agreed. Saving the system at this point exists only somewhere in Krugman's sick imagination. Kick the can though - that can be done for longer than most of us have patience for anymore..
Here is a thought....be a citizen, not a consumer. Fuck their game. If you cannot figure out where to put money where it will do the most good, I fear you may be way behind the power curve.
I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans haven't been citizens for at least 40 years; and they were called taxpayers as few as maybe ten of fifteen years ago. Now they are consumers (except for voting time, where they are lovingly referred to as voters). The language of a civilization does not lie. The consumerist mentality, IMHO, is what needs to change before other positive changes can come about.
Fuck citizens. Citizens take it up the ass. They vote, they get drafted, they send their kids to government schools, they sit on juries and follow "the law", whatever it happens to be. They collect welfare checks. The "consumerist mentality" to which you refer is the inevitable outcome of the glorification of citizenism.
Let's just be humans. We'll get by just fine without the citizen mindfuck.
Thought that for years (pulling forward the taxes and penalty) but for me, at some point I knew I would have to bite the bullet and did.
70% of something is better than 100% of nothing ;-)
They are pulling forward everything nmewn. Roth IRA's used to be strictly limited. Now they are slashing away a lot of rules and practically begging people to do Roth conversions. They want that tax money now.
Yes, nmewn and fonz. Things are moving quickly.
+ 1 to yuz each!
They have about six weeks to pull this off, if they're going to. Debt ceiling March 15. Expect some grand announcement from the Teleprompter.
This isn't about saving the system, this is war. After they hoover the real wealth they kill the surplus and keep the attractive, and enough of the useful but not too bright - like Krugman, but with actual skills -to be slaves. Just like every other socialist utopia.
Yes, and so will the brokers I know--everyone who isn't brain dead. But you had better act early, cause these thieves may make it retroactive.
That's what boating accidents are for...
They're going to be nervous wrecks because of all the upcoming head fakes.
Every client I have has said that if the feds make a move on their Ira's or 401ks they will take the penalties and pull everything.
By the time they know it's going to happen, it will already have happened and they will be SOL for their funds.
If I remember correctly, there was a story circulating back during the Clinton presidency where he supposedly said to Donna Shalala that he sure wished he could figure out how to tax the $16 Tn in retirement funds that had never been taxed. (Not long after that they came out with the Roth IRA, and I sat in my accounting office wondering why, against my advice, clients wanted to convert their IRAs to Roth IRAs).
And for many years I have been advising that people NOT have IRAs at all... then came Argentina and more recently Hungary... and people still think their retirement accounts are "safe." Oh.... I'm sure that if a person has $1 mil in an account they will still have their $1 mil n a "government protected account" at the treasury... but all it will buy is a ham & egg special at the corner diner.
Ain't it the truth! I have friends who haven't done anything but add to 401ks since RinTinTin was a pup. When the market crashed they ran about pulling their hair out. I had mentioned to a few of them that they might want to diversify instead of putting the money in automatically some years prior to the crash. Nope. After the crash they wanted to get into some PMs. I sold them a bit, spotty, not consistently. Ended up buying just about all of it back from them as the economy "recovered". They all made money (nominally) on the purchase/buy-back, but that carries no weight. Now they look at me sorta slanty-eyed, like I'd tried to hustle 'em back then. Next time they can kiss my gold-plated ass. No more favors.
+ 1 Favors are for those who will listen and act. I am pretty much done with favors and offering financial advice to those I know (I only give when I know I will get nothing back, oh, and to a couple of bloggers...). Most of them don't want to hear it (still) and they know where I am at. "AMFs!"
And YOU get dumped on when it was THEY who sold it back, their decision.
Mind boggles...
LMAO ~ That was a beaut Rocky!... still laughing :-)
That's also why I don't give people advice what computer they should buy and no I also won't fix their damn computer when it breaks down. Because then they make you responsible for everything that happens to it and keep interrupting you with all their little problems, which they could solve themselves by googling for a minute and most of the times caused themselves by doing something stupid. If people won't take their head out of their ass and learn something then it's their problem.
My wife and I have had Roths for some time (we are in the highest bracket). They have been successfully managed and have a huge profit. I will be delighted to use that money and not pay a dime of tax. And at the first whiff that the State wants to be my new money manager, I am out.
R U wearing a nose plug?
Really.
The time is now.
I pulled all of mine when Barnhardt went on her rant. It went into hardware which was lost in a fire.
Uncle will increase the withdrawal penalties to slow down any panicky moves by sheeple. Then by overnight legislation, IRA/401k securities in the hands of custodians will be forzen, transferred to Treasury for safe treasuries, specially priced for retirees. the securities will be sent over to the PD banks for management on behalf of the fed. Sheeple will be happy to have govt pension as annuities are offered as option to treasury note holdings.
In 2008 several friends asserted to me that they were "safely out of the stock market" with respect to 401k's because they had money in "stable value" funds. When I looked into the funds, they were chock full of MBS that were "wrapped" with CDS.
Did Bernanke buy all of those up?
FASB 157 was brought in Spring 2009, permitting fund managers to resume their lies about fund market values. Good luck when the bigger wave of Boomer retirements hits!
Maybe that's the real play. 19 T x X% = a shit load of taxes. Oh but wait. That can't be it. That would be such short term thinking. . .
I heard one potential way for them to get their greedy paws on 401Ks is simply make the withdrawal penalty even more prohibitive, say - 30% or even 50%. Bingo. Money locked in pretty much then all they have to do is get the lawyers to concoct a new law about what 401Ks can be invested in. (say, ahem, Treasuries?) Fait accompli.
Your pension belongs to us now...voluntarily or by force...
All your 401k are belong to us, bitchez!!!
All your Federal Reserve Notes belong to the FED and the FED wants them back.
Sure, this makes sense. /sarc FASCISM is the wave of the future! Why count on private fraud schemes to return yield when the gubment is so much more efficient at it?
and ... it's gone
I LOVE South Park Quotes!!! Those two guys have it together! ;-D
The CFPB briefed three people; Curly, Moe, and Larry.
.
It must have been while I was setting up the card table.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4B9JygroAM
I never hear about any of the deals those guys are in on. It's like I'm inside of a fishbowl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju5QsL3B8Xs
I have to wonder exactly how many run for the exits whenever something like this gets printed. Obviously those that cash out of their retirement accounts have to pay taxes and penalties, unless they're past their 59th birthday, then they only pay the taxes.
At the same time I can't imagine the tax repercussions paid by those that cash out amount to anything close to one month of POMO.
I also don't doubt that a large percentage will be more than willing to listen to the siren song about how the government will help them save for retirement and hand over their retirement savings. Look how many still believe they're gonna get SS when they retire.
They will position this as positive and many of the .gov sack swingers will eat it up. They will say you will have guaranteed income and .gov is trying to help you, looking out for your best interests and the sack swinger, obama loving turds will eat it up. Watch and see, they will hail this as salvation and every ignorant fuckstick (most americans) will not only suck, they'll swallow
Undoubtedly the whole scheme will be sold to the American sheeple through a Gallop poll stating that 87% of those polled believe that the government should manage Americans retirement accounts.
Sorta like we were lied to about gun control. The MSM quoted a Gallop poll showing the majority of Americans thought we needed some form of gun control. Well, the American people showed up the MSM by going out and cleaning out the shelves of all of the guns and ammo they could find. In this case, gun control means if I own it, then I control it.
Fat, dumb, lazy telly tubbies will love Big Brother government...until it is killed off - not by law abiding gun owners, but by government debt implosion.
There is no more money.. End of. Deceased. Gone. The Chairsatan can send zillions to his fellow banksters, and none of it will assist ordinary people...'the feeders', as they are called by his sort., the globalists who want depopulation.
And the Bush loving turds? I seem to recall a big push to "privatize" SS (and all pension stuff). Anyone think that this is really any different, that it's it's NOT about corralling as many funds for the lobbyists' pet entities as possible?
Further, MOST people are dead broke and have no retirement savings, in which case trying to assess the behavior/reaction from people who have no real stake in something is not very sound. I need not toss out name-calling etc to discredit their position, simple logic and reason is easily employed and effective.
That said, even those with meager retirement savings might just be too busy to give a big fuck, and they are probably right by doing so: spend precious time (the ONLY thing one cannot get more of) battling the un-defeatable (which only can, and will, be defeated by its own hands) and STILL lose your wealth (via stock market or low interest rates; OR, having physical stolen from you because you live in a shitty neighborhood).
speaking of broke-I was at the gas station Fri night(payday for anybody left with a job) and noticed alot of people putting $20 of gas in and not filling up-and these were not teenagers. I see W must have figured out the internetS and down voted you
I went into the quik stop the other day, bought a Mountain Dew, and told the guy to fill it up. He thanked me a little profusely, and told me he didn't get many of those any more.
I paid for my lunch today, and heard a boy talk about his 'other foster father', and work out how to pay for his lunch with some crazy looking woman. I asked the waitress to bill me for their lunch.
Americans have got fat, lazy and stupid and that's why the government will steal with impunity. No sympathy from me for the fat, wasted, drugged up, two faced warmongering baby boomers.
Charity begins at home. Stop whining. Start standing up for what's good, and right. And pay for it.
FUCK YOU WARREN
Investing in a 401k is like throwing your wallet in the street.
The Securities and Exchange Commission and the Department of Labor are the main regulators of U.S. retirement savings vehicles and funds.
Number of CEO's, CFOs, COOs from a major global bank, criminally or civilily charged and convicted of securities fraud, market manipulation, bid rigging, money laundering, or libor?
ZERO
And then you have BEN FUCK YOU BERNANK printing the dollar into oblivion, WHere is the protection from that asshole? Or the rest of the vultures at the unfederal don't have any fucking reserves.
Oh, but the govt which has 100 trillion, at least, in unfunded liabilities is going to advise you!
Sick of this shit yet?
Well said!
One has to step back and ask why there would be any push. I can only think of one thing: trying to increase the velocity of money. Face it, things plain fail if we cash in all our chips and walk away. If we "sell" back our fiat then it is THEY who are left holding the bag, and they'll have NO way of doing anything with that bag of bad goods.
I could offer that the reduction of reserves held by the banks is a good indication that they had to force out more velocity (otherwise they'd have to sit on/hold).
This thing has been lurching to a halt for quite some time now. This retirement thing is just another rotation on that wheel, as it slows down by the day... best to jump off before we find it stops while sitting on a crumbling bridge.
Have no fear of the 'crumbling bridge' my friend...
~~~
Below it are boiling rapids, which lead to a cascading waterfall that tumbles into a swirling whirlpool...
You'll be fine!
I imagine a somewhat precedent was set when they dipped into Federal Employees retirement accounts in the past, Not a far reach from that to private citizens government regulated IRA accounts.
This is some scary sh*t I see coming. (they've done so well with Soc. Security!)
Thanks for the heads up ZeroHedge, I'll be watching closely.
You mean this:
PARKERSBURG, W.Va. | The retirement nest egg of an entire generation is stashed away in this small town along the Ohio River: $2.5 trillion in IOUs from the federal government, payable to the Social Security Administration.
Sounds like a good time to start tapping the nest egg. Too bad the federal government already spent that money over the years on other programs, preferring to borrow from Social Security rather than foreign creditors. In return, the Treasury Department issued a stack of IOUs — in the form of Treasury bonds — which are kept in a nondescript office building just down the street from Parkersburg’s municipal offices
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/16/social-security-ious-stashed-away-in-wva/#ixzz2JmmWF19D
How do ya like that SHIT?!
No wonder they want to disarm us. When the sullen, docile masses find out the PONZI office is closed, they might go apeshit. Especially if they can't afford their psychotropic medication.
They will just tell people that they have more than enough money and that they don't need their Social Security.
It was Congress that stole the Social Security money boomers entrusted to it. That’s the reason, in addition to adding welfare recipients and illegals and their families to SS, that the system is headed for broke. Congress spent both the SS money and general fund money designated for welfare programs on something else (corporate and banker largesse?), in effect changing the SS system’s contract agreement. Now, Congress, as it continues to unload its deadbeat supporters off into SS who have not paid into it such as Social Security disability benefits for drug addicts and alcoholics, it’s decided to come after Americans' private retirement funds.
One of the prime reasons for Congress lying about Fed-induced inflation is so it won’t have to give Cost of Living Adjustments (COLAs) to legitimate SS retirees who paid into the system. How will that work out for We the People when they manage ALL the income from Americans’ retirement funds?
It won't work out, we all know that.
the math says it cant work out, but when u tell anyone that the math doesn't work they look at you like deer in headlights....
Math is like hard and stuff.
" in addition to adding welfare recipients and illegals and their families to SS, that the system is headed for broke."
"Illegals" paid in but cannot get it back out: I believe Krasting put up some numbers here on ZH not too long ago. So, in a way, they differ very little from you or I (except that they're likely working REALLY shitty jobs for even shittier pay).
Just goes to show that damn near everyone has a sense of entitlement. SS was NEVER intended to be for everyone. That and the fact that it, as well as every fucking thing else that requires growth, is a PONZI. But, no, it's the "illegals"... it's amazing how easily people can be manipulated via xenophobia.
SS would've been fine if it had remained just for widows and orphans, with everyone paying in and nobody getting benefits. But since everyone thinks of it as their retirement account, it's screwed.
That's about how our private insurance system works...everybody pays in but no one gets benefits. How else for insurance execs to make the big bucks. ;-)
"The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."- Frank Zappa
Get rid of all those nasty stocks and bonds and trade them for some IOU's backed by the full deceit of the federal government. I'll take the penalty.
There's $17 trillion of funds out there for them to try and pillage, it's just too juicy a target. They are going to pay off the banksters at all costs, all in the name of safety of coarse. This just smacks of desperation. How anyone can have any confidence in the USD with these type of shenanigans being discussed is beyond me. My guess is it will happen by executive order after a bank holiday. They will just freeze all tax deferred accounts and take them over. Maybe add in a little redistribution just for kicks to buy some servitude, spread the wealth around ya know.
Both private and public sectors are broke. Time to empty the piggy banks...
A ton of that "earned" money was really propped by massive bubbles. We've been running on ill-gotten (or at the very least, fraudulent) gains for quite some time.
Can't get blood out of a rock. This is what happens with all collapses. Further keep in mind that the US isn't unique in all of this: is anyone escaping (other than resource rich countries? [which will, if not already, be seeing a contraction in their export revenues due to everyone else contracting])?
We're from the government and we're here to help.
"...Wait, Professor! It's a COOKBOOK!"
By time FUCK YOU BERNANK gets done printing, 19.4 trillion will have the purchasing power of a silver dime!
He'll effectively have unwound what his predecessor bubbled up.
When will people realize that the path to tyranny leads all the way to the end, the absolute end, of your freedom? Eventually, and this is not too far-fetched, the government will kill you if they can sell your organs.
On the road to this end, this government must be stopped! The banker cartel is running out of value to back their paper and they will go anywhere – anywhere! - to get it! That is one reason more and more Americans want to hold on to their guns, i.e., to protect themselves from the government.
In past arguments over gun control, the NRA and other gun groups have defended their position primarily concerning the need for hunting, gun collectors, target shooting and home security. In the current discussions a major emphasis now has been built on the need for firearms for citizens to protect themselves against a tyrannical government.
It was David Letterman who said, "I've never seen a deer worth 30 rounds of ammo and an automatic rifle." His comment, while definitely demonstrating his part in the gun grabber movement, is completely out of date. The 30-Round clip may be necessary to stop a charging group of government forces or an out-of-control mob intent on stealing what food you might have.
BTW, Letterman, who is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the government-connected media industry, is mistaken about the automatic rifle; only the military are allowed to have automatic weapons, the gun grabbers use this propaganda technique knowing full well that citizens are only allowed semi-automatic weapons.
J.R. , unfortunately it's going to take a shock to wake people up.
David Letterman (indy wanabee) is a joke. He is chasing Jay Leno, who is a pussy as well.
We, the People, are no longer citizens, Yen. We are subjects! Bernaysian robots in the grip of propaganda, drifting along with the trend, posing no problem to our central planners. Until now, perhaps, thanks to ZH et al.? Methinks a viable resistance is building to retake America's liberty.
"Economic control is not merely control of a sector of human life which can be separated from the rest; it is the control of the means for all out ends." --F.A. Hayek
"They" are NOT going to "grab our guns." WTF would they even bother?
People need to be a bit smarter about the logic in all of this (rather than use the canned emotional arguments that they've been programmed with). The program is to have "regular" people identify the dissenters -folks that have guns- and to then take out said dissenters (via drone or whatever) should it be necessary. THIS is good business for the MIC, and it trains the "regular" people to serve "their" govt at the same time it rids the govt (TPTB) of potential threats.
"On the road to this end, this government must be stopped! The banker cartel is running out of value to back their paper and they will go anywhere – anywhere! - to get it!"
Picking the bones is NOT going to remedy their situation. I highly doubt that anyone sitting up high believes this. Again, if there is any story here it's to divide and conquer (any theft has pretty much been maximized to-date) so that TPTB can identify their supporters (Praetorian Guard).
The gun "debate" is just more divide and conquer shit. More political shit to keep people participating in the game.
Those wanting to take on the govt head-on will only be upping the ante such that we'll be sure to see more drones and things that we have NO defense over/against. No one is going to be going door to door to confiscate your guns: yes, it happened in the past, but today things are vastly more sophisticated (the approach will be as I note).
If I were instructing I'd just have people stock up and shut up. As they say in the country: Shoot; Shovel and Shut up. Rambo shit is all fine and dandy in the movies, this is about REAL lives.
only the military are allowed to have automatic weapons
Thats actually incorrect. Civillians can own them after moving to a free state, filling out some forms, paying a tax and then waiting, like, 6 months
They are usually priced in the $20,000-$30,000 range.
The media doesn't know the difference between semi and full auto.
Semi auto can be turned into full auto. I knew a friend who had several converted weapons... unfortunately he lost them all in a tragic boating accident.
Just in case you need to provide facts in any discussion:
6-min Fox News segment on the facts and showing those passing laws in this area don’t really understand what they’re voting on:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2112146653001/
The facts in a simple PowerPoint presentation format:
http://www.assaultweapon.info/
An interesting infographic:
http://americangunfacts.com/
Where high tech comes into play:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/01/14/gunsmiths-3d-print-high-capacity-ammo-clips-to-thwart-proposed-gun-laws/
We're the government & we're here to HELP [you funnel your money to joo bankers]...
Damn! I've been scamed by purchasing Gold/Silver Bullion from local coin dealers. Shit. Why didn't I stay in the stock market? Oh yeah, Inflation Bitchez's. 20,000 DOW is meaningless with bread ant $150 a loaf. Zimbabwe had a great stock market too. How did that turn-out?
Oh you hoser. You've been listening to Kyle Bass haven't you!
After all you did not build that.
Anyone on Welfare has noting to worry about. What is yours is mine.
ZH encourages hatred of Wall Street and hatred of Government. Hatred is the main engergizing force of most comment threads on ZH. What is all this hate doing for us? Nothing. It is just racking up page clicks and revenue for ZH.
Once upon a time ZH was going to do constructive things, like produce honest research and challenge the rating agencies. No money in that folks. It's much easier to whip up the mob into hatred of their own government and financial institutions.
There is no practical difference between Rush Limbaugh's business model and that of ZH. The distinguishing feature is that the hatred engendered by ZH is omnidirectional.
No evidence throughout history that politicians are not decietful, petty, and cruel. Stealing 401(K)s was predicted by many >5 years ago. So who you going to believe, the trash in DC or your own lying eyes?
Socialist code words: "hater," "fair share," "unsustainable," "greedy," "social justice." You are so busted.
I eagerly await your alternative to politics. Perhaps it is sitting in a bunker with your monthly allotment of ammunition from Wal-Mart? Or maybe Wal-Mart should officially run the country and save money on lobbyists?
Let's just get rid of politicians and do WHAT? Kill each other with AR-15s? Civilized people create governments through politics. Savages organize themselves in packs and bands following alpha males. Which system do you prefer?
If the politicians and the bankers refuse to be consistent with the fundamental moral principles of life itself, it is our duty, in the name of peace and personal liberty, to return that government to the limitations put upon it by the Constitution for the United State of America.
What Is Freedom? | George F. Cahill
FREEDOM is the most prized and coveted of all God’s blessings. As Americans, you and I are part of only a tiny portion of mankind that has experienced freedom. Its blessings are as precious as the blessing of life itself.
What, then, are the characteristics of freedom?
Granted, freedom is an abstract thing. But let’s try to make freedom more easily understandable. As an experiment, let’s give all the qualities of freedom to one imaginary person.
Okay, so if freedom is a person, what would he or she be like?
That, then, may give you some inkling of what freedom is like.
Let’s draw out our example a little further. If freedom is a person, who are his or her friends and admirers?
Perhaps the poet John Milton put it best. He wrote: “None can love freedom heartily but good men.”
Every time we cheat, deceive, falsify, or choose that which is not moral, we put down Freedom and every time we do something right, honest, moral, decent, positive and uplifting, we make Freedom a little stronger and more secure.
That’s quite a responsibility, isn’t it? To our credit, we have chosen to shoulder that responsibility for more than 200 years. (March 1979)
"Civilized people create governments which then turn Savage by organizing themselves in packs and bands following alpha males"
~~~
You were so close, but so far...
Rush Limbaugh??? You have got to be kidding me. Limbaugh's just another establishment RINO neo-CON who couldn't even begin to articulate what the (non)Federal Reserve(less) (non)Bank does. And if he could, he'd be afraid to do so on his MSM air waves.
Lame.
Here's the gist, Kant-whatever: when majorities are bought thru debt-financed handouts, there is no more politics. It's all a coercive scam. Those who coerce need to be coerced back. And will be. Quite soon. By the way, is your sister good-looking?
Get outta here, Barry. Play some golf.
Alternative to politics = True Freedom
No need to sit in bunkers when politicians have been wiped from the land.
No need to fear your nutsack or vagina will be squeezed, fondled, or held under arrest at an airport because of political policies that piss off other people.
The rest of the world can relax when the war machine dies.
When politicians and other people get the fuck out of my life and my earnings, I will relax and become a shining beacon of tranquility!
It is the Savages in packs that people worry about. That is why they want AR15's.
Not in defense of what's-his-name, but...
"Socialist code words: "hater," "fair share," "unsustainable," "greedy," "social justice." You are so busted."
Really? Did I not get a copy of the secret code word book that allows me to spot "socialists?"
I use "unsustainable" a lot. Why does it have to be "owned" by "socialists?"
Sorry, but statistically speaking ...
.... yawn .... zzzzzzzzzzzz .....
You are obviously a fool,Govt employee or a politician"Kantbelieveit". I challenge you to write to your senator and ask them how the govt is going to pay back the 2.5 trillion to SS and what happens if they dont and then you will realize your error.
Of course "they'll" pay it back because we all know that there's infinite/perpetual growth possible on this planet, lots of resources that can be extracted in order to pay off those debts- easy! </sarc>
Any high school student who can read a newspaper can tell you how to pay the future obligations of entitlement programs:
1. Enact single payer health care (like EVERY OTHER advanced nation)
2. Cut defense budget 30%
3. Break up fraudulent financial institutions
4. Close tax loopholes and end corporate welfare
5. Rebuild road, utility, and education infrastructure to restore full employment
Unfortunately, private sector grifters own enough congress members to prevent this. While the mob gets excited about gun confiscation and black helicopters, faith in government is systematically destroyed by sites like ZH.
Question: Would the proprietors of ZH deliberately poison public discourse to increase page clicks? Read the threads on ZH to find out.
No, kosher Kant-whatever. 1+1 is 2. Not 11. And U can take your "faith in gubmint" and shove it right back where it came from. What else? Oh yeahhh...all those other Pluto-Socialist "advanced nations" are also drowning in debt.
Cut defense budget 30%...
~~~
That one had me in stitches... It's 'comedy night' at the Apollo...
So the high schooler's can tell us how to fix it then why don't the politicians enact those policies ? BECAUSE THEY ARE CORRUPT !
Fucking communist.
////////////////
I have offended someones delicate sensibilities? Well good ;-)
Could the offended party be so generous as to offer up an explanation of "single payer"?...why not just say what it is...Big Brother setting price and quality...then we'll move on to the rest of the commie "to do list".
"Unfortunately, private sector grifters own enough congress members to prevent this."
You have admitted the flaw in all statist ideology. Be gone.
Kantbeleiveit, Take some friendly advise, go crawl back into your MSM or low level blow hard blog. The cat's in here will eat your lips off. You are way out of your league.
You do not stand a chance, now get your ass on out of here.
And how do you reclaim the 2.3 TRILLION dollars that went missing from the Pentagon on Sept. 10th, 2001, according to Donald Rumsfeld?
Extremely lame, you're no MBD. Try again, or better yet, don't.
@ KantBelieveIt: It is not sites like ZH that inspire hatred of government but rather the actions taken by government, and its individual employees, itself. Government continuously interferes with and often outright ruins individuals' lives...taking of private property, selection of winners and losers, selective law enforcement, elimination of liberty and freedom, oppression, corruption, theft through taxation, selective taxation (some go to jail for purported evasion while others suffer the horrifying experience of fellow congresspersons actually turning their back on them...prior to giving them applause for enduring such, gasp!, minutes of humiliation). Abuse of power in having political enemies audited, or detained and always passing the buck (Bush's fault, Romney's fault, Congress' fault, Guns' fault, ad infinitum). Political favoritism, representation of cronies and lobbyists rather than the electorate. Wealth redistribution, welfare dependency traps, destruction of purchasing power of one's savings or labor. Unjust control or quelling of speech, protest and dissent. Invasion of privacy, unwarranted search and seizures. Murder. Government has become a cesspool of power grabbing garbage.
ZH is not to blame for destruction of any faith in government. Government, itself, has systematically destroyed it by its own conduct. Put blame where it belongs.
The rich have always and will always exploit the poor. They have the advantage of money to bribe and weak charactered men with god complexes love politics and money. To not protect the poor from this exploitation would serve no one. Not even the rich who would turn on themselves and each other in the pursuit of gaining greater wealth at any and all costs.
Kantbelieveit said: "ZH encourages hatred of Wall Street and hatred of Government."
Oh Jesus H. Christ you have GOT to be kidding me.
I don't need any encouragement to hate Wall Street and Washington - their theft, skullduggery, corruption, and debasement of the core principles of the nation are all it took.
Are you blind? Are your eyes closed? Are you eating bananas with the three monkeys?
This is honest research, it is words from the horses mouth (ass?) of the government that they want to take regulatory control over my money! Our money!
Go on, look at an adjacent article that outlines research on how the FED is bailing out European banks with our money.
Do you trust Washington and Wall Street? If so, why?
Have not Jon Corzine, N.D.A.A., MERS, endless QE, bailouts, subversion of the rule-of-law, Kelo versus City of New London, Ruby Ridge, no-knock warrants, flash-crashes, inside trades, currency debasement, and the un-payable debt given you a wee bit of doubt if not made you mad as hell, nay, ENRAGED at Government and Financial Institutions?
Kantbelieveit said:
Depends. Some thinkers do try to build a whole system of thinking. Therefore you cannot assess the whole without considering every bit.
Reminds me of many examples. One funny.
Long short story. A guy worked all his week end to advance the demonstration of a theorem. False universality: a large part of the world was ensnared through a banking pattern but this was at the benefit of the US.
The result suited the requirements. Evidence the world morality will never find its bottom. Worked perfectly. Save that at around the start, he coined in without noticing that 2+2=5. Incredible mistake at this level. Then the man is a true US patriot, faithful to one of the US core values: grand pompous style to achieve nothing. Spoilt all the rest.
The only valuable information is people claiming truth can not accept truth when it does not get away with less than your casual white yankee-dankee/hillbilly Joe.
Made me laugh. In nature, the status winner and loser is not known. That is just anthrocentrism.
The most popular game in the world, football, in this regard, was poorly coded as it allows stalemate, failing to produce an outcome winner/loser.
Quite easy to check: take your own flamer or borrow one from one of the many gun ho site regulars, offering a thread to vent your perpetual routine without polluting the space of people having fun, and burn it up.
After that, if your threads gather too many people or turn too big to ignore, you might die in the process but empirical science will grow victorious.
On this website like any other.
What's wrong with hating the government?
So, instead of being scammed in your old age you give your Retirement Money to the Government and they give you an IOU.
Where have I heard that before?
Aren't we supposed to hate Social Secuity too? Because it is SOCIALISM, isn't it? It says SOCIAL right in the name of it. Consider the horror of the government making sure that old people don't starve in their retirement. Think of the audacity of the government refusing to put the worker's enforced savings in risky investments. People have a right to starve! People have a right to be stupid in making investments! Bring back the law of the jungle. Let the strong kill the weak, and purge society of weaklings and misfits. Only Christian fools believe in protecting the poor and the weak. They must be destroyed by their betters.
Snort...chortle ;-)
I guess I'll just save myself the trouble of ever reading I. Kant's books on philosophy. Incomprehensible (I'm sure) and now I know my brain might rot...
We used to have high-quality ZOGtrolls on ZH. Now going downhill, like everything else.
Must be the effect of 'getting ahead of' those [proposed] 30% defense budget cuts...
Why doesn't the Govt encourage people to save by increasing the interest rate instead of encouraging them to spend ?
Why? Because if chopper Ben allowed interest rates to rise appreciably...the Gubmint would shortly default on its own interest payments. Even at near-ZIRP, they're running at $500 billion/yr. And that's 20% of actual revenue. This is called a DEBT TRAP. And there is no way out short of Systemic Collapse.
That's why the gov can' t afford to have economic growth anymore as well.
Let's toss out all the red-baiting and name-calling and get down to pure logic..
I don't agree with the motives of many here, but I will agree with hard facts and logic. And here are the facts and logic surrounding/affecting SS:
- SS was NEVER meant as a "retirement" program for the masses.
- SS depends on there being more people paying in than are receiving benefits.
- SS, as with nearly everything else, depends on continued growth.
- There cannot be perpetual growth on a finite planet; as such, ALL growth (as far as we are concerned) WILL end.
- US growth (and worldwide growth) is slowing.
- The ratio of folks paying in to SS to those receiving SS is decreasing.
- Total debt, public AND private is increasing.
- ALL WARS ARE ABOUT RESOURCES.
I included that last point because war is really about the strong killing the weak in order to acquire resources. If there are insufficient resources that means that people are going to die. It makes little sense, then, for the supposedly strong to mistreat or kill its own if it is not deficient in resources, something that would indicate a collective weakness.
While I don't wish to accept the notion of the "strong" killing off the "weak," I nonetheless would be making a grave error by not question the very underlying premise. And that is to ask whether resource shortages are on the horizon, and if so, why.
There are those that are passive and those that are aggressive. Nature uses both tactics for survival. Oh! Nature is steeped in deception, and humans are OF nature, in which case humans are deceptive (that means you!)
" - SS was NEVER meant as a "retirement" program for the masses."
Nonsense. It was meant to help the government "retire" a large portion of the population.
SS - like all other welfare programs - is way for the political class to buy the cooperation, complacency, and support of the poor. Nothing more. Even the socialists realize this (though, they claim, somehow, that it wouldn't be in a proper socialist or communist society because ... something about "dictatorship of the proles" yadda yadda yadda cryptic jargon-filled delusions...).
Kantbelieveit - you sound lost in the left/right, progressive/conservative false dichotomy.
As the Bible instructs, only anonymous individual charity is charity.
Government charity turns into banker charity, with crumbs left for the people it was supposed to help.
This is about greedy mammon lusting individuals gravitating into the bowels of government and industry to corrupt, steal, skim, embezzle, debase, corrode, rot, and destroy for their own benefit.
The voting "choice" is the smoke screen that prevents otherwise good people from ever changing the corruption.
The political, judicial, and financial systems are utterly broken and corrupt.
There are no constructive solutions to a pack of rabid dogs; they must be put down.
Kant,
The problem is that Social Security is a contributory fund. After all most of us have been Taxed 15% a year for the last 40 or 50 years for our so called Benefits.
Calling Social Security Welfare is like calling your Company Pension Welfare. Only difference is that the Money for Social Security was given to the Government and the Money for your Pension was placed with the Company.
Just a thought. Perhaps the governent is the reason old people are starving in their retirement
If the Governments controls your Social Security then takes over your 401K. They will tell you how much Retirement you can have.
Plus, they will control Health Care so that you will never live long enough to collect any of the Money you saved for your Retirement. All medical procedures for your age will be denied as costing too much for your age.
With all of the Boomers it could put the Government in the Green.