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Art Cashin Uncovers Another Unintended Consequence Of Immigration Reform

Tyler Durden's picture


As UBS' Art Cashin points out, the weekend talk shows were filled with talk of immigration reform, and yet, as he exclaims, no discussion of Social Security. The avuncular arbitrageur, however, sees immigration reform from a different and insightful perspective noting that while immigration reform may finally get the undocumented worker a fairer break, Social Security will lose significantly...

Via Art Cashin,

Immigration Reform And Social Security – An Unintended Consequence? – The weekend talk shows were filled with talk of immigration reform. There were long lists of consequences discussed. Yet none that I heard mentioned Social Security.


There are said to be about 11 million undocumented folks around the country who need immigration reform. Most of them are working at any job they can find to make ends meet.


In order to get most of those jobs, they have to supply their employers with a Social Security number. Since they are undocumented, they don't have a Social Security number so many have to submit a false Social Security number.


That, in turn, means a great many have FICA deducted and sent to a Social Security system from which they will never collect. For each, their employers also contribute in their name.


If those perceptions are correct, those folks and their employers have poured millions and millions of "bonus" dollars into Social Security, yet the system remains broken.


The same type of thing occurs when somebody works two or three jobs. If his (or her) earnings go over the FICA limit, the worker can claim a refund of the overdraft on their income tax form. The employers, however, don’t know about the other employers. So, their share of the overpayment lingers as another "bonus" in the system.


Despite the various bonuses, the system is still going broke each day. If immigration reform comes, the undocumented may finally get a fairer break but Social Security will lose those unfair bonuses.


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Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:36 | 3216295 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Give me their vote and give them your job.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:41 | 3216316 true brain
true brain's picture

Reconquistadore is going right on schedule in california. By 2014, over half of population in california will be hispanics. They come , they breed, they take over.

oh, yeah, and in between breeding and taking over, they form gangs , deal drugs, occupy prison, and kill everything in their path.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:45 | 3216327 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

How silly of Mexicans to live in the state that used to be their own country.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:49 | 3216338 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Somebody give them Feinstein's address...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:01 | 3216375 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Scorcese never got the full credit that that movie deserved...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:06 | 3216399 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Boss Tweed never got the full credit that that politician deserved...Nobel Peace Prize?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:33 | 3216763 economics9698
economics9698's picture

"How silly of Mexicans to live in the state that used to be their own country."

They lost the war.  Wars have consequences.  Next war we will kick them out again.  History repeats.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:46 | 3216566 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

Don't interupt Feinstein,she's about ready to give head to my Benelli.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:34 | 3216767 economics9698
economics9698's picture

That bitch is a nasty Jooo cunt.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:51 | 3216350 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

As if they were there to remember it. 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:16 | 3216444 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

And they took it from who?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:05 | 3216642 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Well, I guess the dinosaurs could claim they were there first, but alas, they can't vote for democrats, their arms were to tiny.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 16:24 | 3217396 mkhs
mkhs's picture

But the brain size was about right.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:28 | 3217909 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:29 | 3216492 ACP
ACP's picture

Temporalist, how is it possible that 25 year old illegal aliens used to own land that was sold to white landowners by the Spaniards, who killed millions of Aztecs and Mayans by coughing on them?

And by the way, there were 100 separate and distinct Indian tribes in CA ALONE... maybe you'll want to put down that LA RAZA propaganda booklet and learn yourself some real history.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:36 | 3216524 JR
JR's picture

You know what, Temporalist, this is not their country.

“There has been so much concentration on the native Americans found in possession when the white man came that little thought has been given to those who preceded them (such as the Anasazi)… It is time white men understand that most of the Indians found in possession were latecomers, and all too little was known and who had preceded them.” – Louis L’Amour, Jubal Sackett

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:27 | 3217901 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

thats because most native americans were killed and/or evicted.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:15 | 3216694 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"How silly of Mexicans to live in the state that used to be their own country."
...for 26 whole fucking years!
"Ah, mi dulce homeland" (sniffle)

If having millions of Mexicans in your country was such a good thing, Mexico would be heaven on earth

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:02 | 3216872 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

If you can't hold it...

It ain't yours.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:37 | 3216989 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I expected down votes; I didn't think the irony would be lost on so many though (just a sarcastic bit of humor).  I've known illegal immigrants from Europe, South America, Asia...everyone games the system that can unfortunately.


Ron Paul on immigration:

"It’s an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I don’t think there’d be an immigration problem. We’d be looking for workers and we would be very generous."

"If you subsidize something, you get more of it. We subsidize illegal immigration, we reward it by easy citizenship, either birthright or amnesty. But we force our states and our local communities to pay for the health care and pay for the education. Why wouldn’t they bring their families? And because of our economic conditions, we do need workers. But if we had a truly free market economy, the illegal immigrants would not be the scapegoat. We would probably need them and they would be acceptable."

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 19:39 | 3218155 billsykes
billsykes's picture

They are poor because they are stupid.

And they think america is a great place to be- dumbasses are going off a playbook that is over 40 years out of date. 

Shot on sight, stripped of your rights and a drone to your family's beds. Is all america is good for now.

Learn Portuguese and go to Brazil.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:48 | 3216337 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

And, they vote To perpetuate the chaos.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:10 | 3216417 mightycluck
mightycluck's picture

Do you think raising healthcare premiums for young and healthy CITIZENS by 169% (when Obamao told us healthcare costs would lower) is intended on unintended.

Found this on the web.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:46 | 3216331 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture

What could go wrong when you take on millions of working poor who bleed the social safety nets and whom a majority come from socialiat/fascist political leanings? 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:07 | 3216404 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

The same broken question has been asked by authoritarians at least 6 times in the history of the US. The results have been reasonably good on each occasion.

Would it be heresy to suggest that the ideas behind the American ideal are superior and will ultimately overcome the others if left alone? There is evidence to suggest this been the outcome in the past.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:31 | 3216499 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

Well, yes, just as "heretical" as it is to point out that the USA is not, and never has been, a "White Christian Nation."

Prepare for lambastation from the Birchers...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:07 | 3216657 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Hmm, how about a moral spiritual Republic? I think it was once.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:14 | 3216684 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

There's not really a lot of data on the "morals and spirituality" of the great masses of "mean" and illiterate Americans during the early days of the Republic, but it's a cute idea to cling to, sure.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:25 | 3217893 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

illegals can vote?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 23:10 | 3218733 13thWarrior
13thWarrior's picture

Also give them your guns so they can spread democracy around the globe without questioning authority.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:36 | 3216299 tbone654
tbone654's picture

so we need immigrants.. but not old ones.. to support middle class tax base...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:36 | 3216300 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Obviously the government has known about this for many, many, many years, which would mean that it is not an unintended consequence. My understanding is that it is possible for undocumenteds to collect SS.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:54 | 3216359 Freddie
Freddie's picture

They can get every "benefit" a citizen can plus others that you cannot.  They can get on SS disability as well.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:31 | 3216455 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Could you explain how?  I'm not trying to argue, I just don't understand how that happens if you don't have a SS number.  State programs, I can understand- if you can fog a mirror you can get them, usually (sometimes even if you can't fog a mirror).  But how to you get anything from SS, most especially retirement benefits, if you're not "in the system" with a number to reference?

 EDIT:  Nevermind.  Got it below.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:36 | 3216301 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

ironic that the one group who is paying into the system, is the one who will cause the most problems.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:39 | 3216302 tbone654
tbone654's picture

pfff... revenue neutral by CBO I'm sure...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:42 | 3216314 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Your real point is that's 11 million undocumented fuckers that UBS can't fleece right?


Fuck you Cashin you old drunk complicit UBS primary stealer fucking tool.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:49 | 3216340 mr1963
mr1963's picture

Don't forget -- protect their territory from "african" americans...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:00 | 3216354 Mercury
Mercury's picture

In order to get most of those jobs, they have to supply their employers with a Social Security number. Since they are undocumented, they don't have a Social Security number so many have to submit a false Social Security number.

 That, in turn, means a great many have FICA deducted and sent to a Social Security system from which they will never collect. For each, their employers also contribute in their name.


I don't think this is true. I believe SS does pay out benefits to fake SS#s as Bruce Krasting has described.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:05 | 3216393 Laddie
Laddie's picture

I believe SS does pay out benefits to fake SS#s as Bruce Krasting has described.

You are quite right. They really know how to game the system. In fact they are AIDED in gaming the system by religious and GOVERNMENTAL workers. The IRS last year admitted they paid out several BILLIONS OF DOLLARS in false tax refungs, including the EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT, to ILLEGAL ALIENS. The average White American has NO IDEA just how much of THEIR tax dollars goes to illegals and LEGAL immigrants.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:25 | 3216480 Mercury
Mercury's picture

I blame the system creators here, not the system gamers.  What would you do differently in a Mexican grape picker's shoes?

I think most of that money goes unclaimed anyway.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:58 | 3216608 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

      The average White American has NO IDEA just how much of THEIR tax dollars goes to illegals and LEGAL immigrants.

How much, Laddie?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:53 | 3216357 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

When Cashin retires and Santelli gets fired, there will no longer be any reason to listen to anything from CNBC, which will be left with nothing more than fully invested fund managers trying to talk others into buying at a higher price.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:55 | 3216601 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:56 | 3216363 1eyedman
1eyedman's picture

ss in itself is solvent on a cash flow basis, but not as robustly as in the past, heading towards 2 workers per retiree kind of thing.    when it was first set up, benefits were to be paid starting at the then-top-end of life expectancy.   we have much longer life expectancy now, but never changed ss to match.   

in the near term ss does look quite pathetic.   but as the boomers die off, ss positive cash flow comes back quite strong.  since govt finances are based in perpetuity, this whole thing is a mere speed hump.   

the real problem though is the rest of the govt, on a cash basis, has been borrowing, intragovernementally, from ss positive cash flow.  since the cash flow will go to zero and probably negative for several years (they dying off period),   the fed govt has to get funding from other sources, namely deficit spending enabled by the fed monetization.      as long as this new debt is priced at very low interest rates we could muddle through.   

a knock on problem though is, politicians only plan about 18 months ahead, to the next election cycle.  gop'ers want to balance the books right now, via social bene programs; dems dont seem to want to do anything; and net spending will only increase, along with total debt and total interest expense.   this debt burden is what will make the US hover at 1.5% growth and periodically dip into recession much more frequently than in the past....until the debt/defict burden is lessened---which even with the boomers dying off, doesnt seem likely.   more fragile system, more leverage, more often and worse economic cycles.     do not accrue debt, do not lease things, own your assets; buy securities that are cheap and create cash flow when they are high...there is no buy and hold for at least 10-15 years.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:29 | 3216490 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

And if I had a 10" rod, I'd be a porn star.  But I don't, so I'm not.

The problem isn't just the period of "going negative" in SS due to demographics.  That could be managed if it was the only problem area.  The issue is that SS is only ONE of the many entitlements that are sucking off the same teat.  And many of those other entitlements are in even worse shape, with worse trajectories, than SS.

It all comes from the same money bucket (all trust funds have already been pillaged long ago).  The tank is running dry quickly and at an accelerating rate.  You won't GET to the relief from the passing away of the boomer generation before the entitlement engine runs out of gas to burn. 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:36 | 3216520 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

And if I had a 10" rod, I'd be a porn star. But I don't, so I'm not.

But can you act???? LOL

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 20:32 | 3218301 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

   And if I had a 10" rod, I'd be a porn star.

Probably not, that's a REALLY competitive business for the male actors.  It's the very rare individual who can perform consistently on-set.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:57 | 3216366 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture


The bigger problem is that half the country has no idea of natual law, or the governing philosphy of the Founding Fathers, or what it means to be an American. This ignorance can be attributed to two problems:

1. Forced government schooling. This is nothing but a tool of the power hungery to keep the population ignorant and indoctrinated in believing in the "expert" ruling class that they must obey.

2. The Immigration Reform Act of 1965. If you can't get the population to accept a ruling class, change the population. The massive influx of socialist brainwashed Eurotrash and third world bottom feeders who know nothing but totalitarian rule, come here for economic advantage, but tend to try and remake their new land in the image of their homeland. Close to half of the population of the US is here as a result of that Act, and that doesn't include illegal aliens. This combined with the "work" and "student" visas makes natural born Americans a displaced minority in their own land, with many of the best job and educational opportunities taken by foriegners.

This was by design, people. The intent is to get rid of freedom loving Americans, and they are well on their way.

The question is now, what will us Americans do about it? Hopfully the same thing our ancestors did - fight and win. My fellow Americans, steel yourselves and set your minds to the fact that you will have to fight to get your country back. This is not a battle you will win at the ballot box; you are going to have to kill your ememies and expel those not killed off of our shores.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:16 | 3216446 Laddie
Laddie's picture

In effect, the historic American nation is faced with a minority occupation government.
Peter Brimelow, 2009 CPAC

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:48 | 3216576 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"you will have to fight to get your country back."

Which is about likely as the Greeks and Italians getting Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome back.

Two hundred years of big government loving immigrants has destroyed any trace of what America was founded on.

That's all Folks!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:21 | 3217881 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

hiawatha (iriquois confederacy fame) is chuckling at that.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:57 | 3216367 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Regarding "Social Security will lose significantly", that only makes sense if there is a actual Soc. Sec. Trust Fund that receives and holds/invests payments.  But there is no Fund, and there certainly is no informed trust.  There is only the promise of future taxpayers coughing up ridiculous proportions of their pay as this Ponzi implodes, too. 

Old folks will be too great a burden to bear in a culture of hedonism, violence, and death.  But hey, there's always Soylent Green. 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 11:58 | 3216369 Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

Just this one time, I'm going to disagree with Art C.

If an undocumented worker obtains an illegal Social Security card to get work, and uses the illegal card for ten years (the SS minimum) this person is entitled to SS benefits on EXACTLY THE SAME TERMS as a legal worker.

The only requirement is that the undocumented worker receive their checks in a bank outside of the USA.

I wrote about this a few weeks ago:

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:09 | 3216414 Bruce Krasting
Bruce Krasting's picture

One other thing, SS keeps track of this. As of 2010, SS had collected $138B from workers who had illegal cards.

This sounds like a huge amount of money (it is), but in reality is comes to about 2 months of SS benefits today. SS paid $67 Billion in benefits in February 2013. OMG!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:23 | 3216470 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Yeah, if they're "undocumented", how are they tracking them.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:34 | 3216514 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

OK, awesome.  At least the hole is no deeper than we already thought it was!  We're back to only a "fill in the Grand Canyon" sized problem we already knew we had, not a much larger "fill in the Atlantic Ocean" problem.

So this is what counts as a "good" thing these days, I guess.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:24 | 3216733 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

None of this shit matters, by the time any of you turds are ready to retire the Federal Reserve will have inflated away any monetary value you would have received in your SS check.

By the time you retire will you have paid off your house?

What will be your property tax rates be?

Will you be able to afford electricity?

Auto insurance? Will you be able to afford a new car?

Will your monthy SS check cover your Obamacare health insurance and prescription med costs.

If you think these things are exorbiant now, wait until you retire 10, 20, 30 years from now.

Unless we have a true deflationary depression, the things you can barely afford now will definitely be unaffordable by the time you retire, thanks to Bernanke and friends at the FED.

But, don't give up, keep working Globalist slaves, at least until the robots can take over, guaranteed within 20 years.

Rise of the Robot Worker

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:11 | 3216422 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

It makes a liberal all warm and fuzzy inside, knowing they are "helping" illegals to obtain citizenship- and expanding their voting base. But, I believe the illegals may want to obtain citizenship, but I find it very hard to believe they will alter their lifestyle a great deal. I think they will continue to try and live "under the radar". They will continue to work and remain in a completely cash existence. I mean really- who wants to sign up to get their paycheck raped every payday? I think they believe they can have the best of both worlds- citizenship with all the benefits, but stay cash with none of the burden of taxes. We'll see.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:44 | 3216817 fattail
fattail's picture

Good for them. I would do the same if i could go back in time.   anything that brings about the collapse faster is a positive.

Who brought the matches..

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:17 | 3216450 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

And the poor schmuck who didn't know that his SS # was stolen has to explain to the IRS where the extra income on their SS# comes from and why they didn't pay the matching taxes while the terrorist collects. And your assumption that the illegal is providing his half of the SS obligation is BS too. When push comes to shove, they play the totalization card from their native country.They don't pay a cent into the system. They just take.

There is legal immigration. Let's help them out and not these terrorist fucks.

Republicans better be careful what they wish for. As soon as they sign this act of treason, 11 million new jobs will magically be created. Kiss mid-terms goodbye and they still won't gain anything from pandering. Plus, the 11 million "new jobs" will probably push that pesky unemployment rate towards 6.5% and bye bye QE. Boy, it's amazing to see the best and brightest at work.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:22 | 3216717 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Bruce, Can you tell me where I can find that regulation?   I know you wrote about that but what is the source?

 It has been awhile, but many years ago I used to help illegals with paperwork with an immigration attorney(laws have definitely changed since then) , but once an illegal immigrant gained legal status and a ss# of their own, they then could file with Social Security Administration and get the SS taxes from their illegal yearsworking credited to their new SS card. Proof of earnings was required and only then would the SS tax be credited to them.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:36 | 3216995 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

to clarify something, the card is legal, the worker is not, the worker pays into the system illegally, and then must draw his benefits from his native country?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:03 | 3216386 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

"Broke" is the loneliest word......

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:17 | 3217865 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:07 | 3216406 Laddie
Laddie's picture
Homeland Security Promotes Welfare to New Immigrants in Government ‘Welcome’ Materials

Caroline May, Daily Caller, November 18, 201

Welcome to,” a website maintained by the Department of Homeland Security’s U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), bills itself as the “primary gateway for new immigrants to find basic information on how to settle in the United States”—featuring a prominent section for new immigrants about how to access government benefits.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:09 | 3216415 Laddie
Laddie's picture

Froma Harrop: Excessive Immigration/STEM Visas Harm Skilled Workers Too

Immigration amnesty shortchanges American workers By Froma Harrop The Columbus Dispatch Friday, February 1, 2013

The impressive thing about this piece was Harrop was willing to query the envisaged attack on the living standards of skilled workers so beloved of Congressional Republicans:

The Senate plan would redesign the immigration program to favor workers with needed skills... but even at the top of the skill chart, we still have a domestic work force to protect.

Educated workers have been displaced by immigrants coming through the H-1B visa program for foreign tech workers. Ron Hira, a professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology, complained to Computerworld that the Senate plan “greatly expands a deeply flawed guest worker program that takes away job opportunities from American workers and undercuts their wages.”

This lust to beat down skilled labor’s incomes by importing foreigners spans both parties, as Mark Krikorian, Norm Matloff and others have complained.

It is nice to see Froma Harrop back on this circuit. She has been deploring the impact of excessive immigration for a long time and has done excellent work, but in recent years had given the impression of wavering. Indeed a purist will see retreat routes built into the present piece.

Nevertheless she is on the right side. Applaud Froma Harrop.

I liked the Columbus Dispatch comment thread posting by “Robert Moffett”

President Eisenhower made self deportation work. 3 Million self deported. But to make self deportation work, or so we are told in the press, he had to do a very divisive, hateful, nativist, xenophobic, bigoted, white supremacist, racist, angry old white man thing............which was........ to enforce our immigration laws. Join Numbersusa and read vDare every day.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:15 | 3216438 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

... in addition they will begin at some point to take money out of the social security system where they might not be eligible to do as such today.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:17 | 3216452 JR
JR's picture

Will they sell out everything for a dollar, including their country? Yes. Who are they? Well, one of them is Art Cashin.

The flood of illegals that has destroyed the economic opportunities for millions of American workers has turned an American culture into a low-skill welfare state. And what’s more: it has helped bankrupt social security. Why? Because the addition of non-paying millions to the receiving rolls has added to the bankruptcy of the program. And now, so-called conservatives bemoan the people who want to get a return on the mandated contributions they have made throughout their working lives. What cheats these people are to try and get back their money when the country stands at an economic crossroads.

Never mind that the SS funds were stolen by politicians and bankers for the own personal use. Never mind that the media joins the Art Cashins of the world in proclaiming Social Security as an entitlement just like welfare that must be curtailed. Why? Because the banks want it; the banks, the banks, the banks


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:25 | 3216481 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

When these illegal aliens become citizens they will be able to bring in their parents to collect Social Security without ever having paid into Social Security.  Also, how many illegal aliens use a Social Security number.  I've never seen one.  They all work on a cash basis.  Who pays their medical bills.  We do.  This oped is bullshit.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:37 | 3216516 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



They Probably pay some of these too: 


Federal income tax

State income tax

Local income tax

Employee social security tax (your employer pays the other half)

Employee Medicare tax (your employer pays the other half)

Property taxes

Road toll charges

State sales tax

Driver's license renewal fee

TV Cable/Satellite fees & taxes

Federal telephone surtax, excise tax, and universal surcharge

State telephone excise tax and surcharge

Telephone minimum usage and recurring/nonrecurring charges tax

Gas/electric bill fees & taxes

Water/sewer fees & taxes

Cigarette tax

Alcohol tax

Federal gasoline tax

State gasoline tax

Local gasoline tax

Federal inheritance tax

State inheritance tax

Gift tax

Bridge toll charges

Marriage license

Hunting license

Fishing license

Bike license fee

Dog permit/license

State park permit

Watercraft registration & licensing fees

Sports stadium tax

Bike/nature trail permit

Court case filing fee

Retirement account early withdrawal penalty

Individual health insurance mandate tax

Hotel stay tax

Plastic surgery surcharge

Soda/fatty-food tax

Air transportation tax

Electronic transmission of tax return fees

Passport application/renewal fee

Luxury & gas-guzzler car taxes

New car surcharge

License plate and car ownership transfer taxes

Yacht and luxury boat taxes

Jewelry taxes & surcharges

State/local school tax

Recreational vehicle tax

Special assessments for road repairs or construction

Gun ownership permit

Kiddie tax (IRS form 8615)

Fuel gross receipts tax

Waste Management tax

Oil and gas assessment tax

Use taxes (on out-of-state purchase)

IRA rollover tax/withdrawal penalties

Tax on non-qualified health saving account distributions

Individual and small business surtax (page 336 of Obamacare)

Estimated income tax underpayment penalty

Alternative Minimum Tax on income

Business Taxes & Fees


Federal corporate income tax

State corporate income tax

Tax registration fee for new businesses

Employer social security tax

Employer Medicare tax

Federal unemployment tax

State unemployment tax

Business registration renewal tax

Worker's compensation tax

Tax on imported/exported goods

Oil storage/inspection fees

Employer health insurance mandate tax

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (page 2001/Sec. 9007 of Obamacare)

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies (Page 2010/Sec. 9008 of Obamacare)

Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers (Page 2020/Sec. 9009 of Obamacare)

Tax on Health Insurers (Page 2026/Sec. 9010 of Obamacare)

Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans, i.e. "Cadillac" plans

Tax on indoor tanning services

Utility users tax

Internet transaction fee (passed in California; being considered in other states and at federal level)

Professional license fee (accountants, lawyers, barbers, dentists, plumbers, etc.)

Franchise business tax

Tourism and concession license fee

Wiring inspection fees

Household employment tax

Biodiesel fuel tax

FDIC tax (insurance premium on bank deposits)

Electronic waste recycling fee

Hazardous material disposal fee

Food & beverage license fee

Estimated income tax underpayment penalty

Building/construction permit

Zoning permit

Fire inspection fee

Well permit tax

Sales and Use tax seller's permit

Commercial driver's license fee

Bank ATM transaction tax

Occupation taxes and fees (annual charges required for a host of professions)


Send them all home ..... but be careful what you wish for.


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:45 | 3216562 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



I wish I had a magic wand so I could send 20 million +/- of the illegal spenders home so I could watch the look on everyone’s face when the GDP plunges 5% and one tomato cost $5. 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:16 | 3216698 JR
JR's picture

GDP? GDP for the people? It’s the financial sector that accounts for 8.4% (2012) of US GDP, up from 3.8% in 1950.

It’s the financial sector monopoly whose profits as a percentage of all domestic corporate profits are back in the 45.80% range achieved in December 2001!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:47 | 3216570 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture

Letme guess... you wouldn't happen to be a public employee? NEA? or one of it's affiliates?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 15:28 | 3217187 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



No, I’m an industrial automation programmer – working 7 fucking days a week. Why am I working 7 days a week? Let’s see if the Junkers typing from mommy’s basement can figure that one out …… yeah that’s what I thought. 

You want to see how much I pay in taxes LOL. I probably will make more money working one Sunday then these guys make in a week ROFL 

If you’re here illegal and spend a dollar here in USA you’re paying taxes somehow. If everyone here thinks that is a false statement then I guess I’m on the wrong website. 

Then mentality level jumps up a bit when all the working people come home and tune into Zero Hedge. Me … I’m typing from work – because I can.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:13 | 3217849 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

they didnt build that

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 19:01 | 3218017 chubbar
chubbar's picture

If you're an illegal alien spending a dollar here, it's because you earned it ahead of a real american. You snuck across the border, committing a felony ,took a job,and have completely disregarded all laws to the contrary. Sorry, but you need to get the fuck out of our country.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:42 | 3216550 Navymugsy
Navymugsy's picture

So should we let them stay just so they can pay some marginal amount of tax? Plastic surgery tax? You're fucking kidding right?


I say you let them stay at your house.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:51 | 3216584 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



It’s a cut and paste genius. Are you saying they don't pay ANY of the taxes listed above - wow!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:02 | 3216627 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture

Send them home. I'll pay more taxes for that.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:05 | 3216643 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



So you’re saying …. when Juan and CuntSwayLow are going to drive over to Trav777’s house for a taco cookout, but first they need to fuel up, they are not paying any gasoline tax. Astounding. 

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 14:22 | 3220636 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture

You're saying there's a choice between immigration and taxes. I'm saying I'll take the taxes. Who are you anyway? Is that you Karl Rove? 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 15:37 | 3216648 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

How much would the deficit have to go up to support complete militarization of the deportation process, I wonder?

We could bring back the draft and get a million new active-duty troops rounding up all the illegals and shipping them over whichever border is closest.

But who'd want to PAY for that?  A couple hundred billion a year, I'd estimate, but perhaps it could save on entitlement payouts...


Well, okay, I guess NO ONE WANTS TO PAY for that.

Gee.  Maybe that has something to do with the reason why the Feds are not DOING anything?  The obvious conclusion is that native-born 'Merkins are too stupid to even consider the costs of their own preferred policies. 

THAT certainly isn't a problem caused by the illegals, but maybe we can blame someone else for our own idiocy.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:56 | 3216605 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

Who is writing all of this for Art?  I thought he was just a stock jockey.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:12 | 3217844 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

his runner is called "huan toothreefore"

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:03 | 3216634 DR
DR's picture

The US is running out of cheap Mexican illegals.

" In 1970, the Mexican fertility rate was 6.72. Today, it's just at
replacement, a drop of 72% in 40 years. Mexico used to send us several hundred thousand immigrants a year. For the last three years, there has been a net immigration of zero."


Between boomers retiring and low immigration, US wages, due to labor demand,might actually see some real growth in the future


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:06 | 3216646 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

Need I remind everyone - the guy who pushed and signed the biggest immigration amnesty was... RONALD REAGAN!!!!!!!!!!


Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

  • legalized certain seasonal agricultural illegal immigrants.
  • legalized illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt. About three million illegal immigrants were granted legal status.


From that left wing socialist propaganda rag...Forbes magazine

Earth To Conservatives: Immigrant Amnesty Is A Conservative Policy

'Ronald Reagan saw it, even if alleged ‘Reaganites’ don’t. He signed amnesty into law in 1986, inviting three million ‘illegals’ to become ‘legals.’ He even defended the idea in his 1984 Debate with Fritz Mondale: “I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally.”'

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:12 | 3216680 secret_sam
secret_sam's picture

Immigrants drive down labor costs, which is good for the "big business" folks.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:35 | 3216771 Lin S
Lin S's picture

Reagan's amnesty is the primary cause for California's demise.  From a once-conservative "red" state to a Spanish-speaking version of North Korea in 20 short years.

The next "amnesty" will do to America what the last one did to California.  Wait, watch, and see.

Bullish news for aspiring, socialist tyrants.



Wed, 02/06/2013 - 14:24 | 3220645 Agent 440
Agent 440's picture

It was also supposed to make the employers honest and end illegal immigration. Another problem solved. Thank you GOP Inc!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:36 | 3216778 Laddie
Laddie's picture

January Jobs: Immigrants Displace Natives at a Record Clip—And That’s Even Before Amnesty!

It’s a sick labor market, with immigrants are already displacing Americans, into which our bipartisan political elite is inexplicably planning to amnesty 12-20 million illegal aliens and increase legal immigration, the January jobs report revealed last Friday

The unemployment rate ticked up to 7.9 percent in January. It has made no progress since September 2012 and is still about where it was when President Obama was inaugurated in January 2009.

American employers added 157,000 jobs in January, compared with a revised 196,000 jobs the previous month. For perspective (which you never see supplied by the Main Stream Media or, for that matter, by Establishment economists) about 90,000 legal immigrants arrive each month.  Or about 1.062 million per year: see the DHS’s report U.S. Legal Permanent Residents: 2011.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:39 | 3216785 Hail Spode
Hail Spode's picture

I am a bit confused as to why Mr. Cashin thinks that it is "fairer" that people who are here illegally get back the money they paid into the system rather than losing that money.  Suppose Juan breaks into your house illegally and takes a bunch of things he is not entitled to, including money.  He then puts some of that money into a money clip which he drops on your floor on the way out.  Is it "fairer" if he can come back and get the money in that clip, or is it "fairer" if you get to keep it?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:43 | 3217022 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

suppose Juan mows your lawn, and you decide you don't have to pay him because he's here illegally. Juan takes your lawn mower. you get a fine from your HOA which is five times what paying the guy in the first place would have cost. now Juan starts a landscape business with your lawn mower, and he gets a green card because he has clients. you buy a new lawn mower which helps the economy, but you're too lazy to use it, so you hire Juan again, because now he's legal.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:19 | 3216932 Codetrader
Codetrader's picture


How Many Illegal Immigrants Live in Your State?

A bipartisan group of senators this week outlined a plan for comprehensive immigration reform, an issue President Obama has asked Congress to tackle in the first half of the year. Since the last major overhaul of U.S. immigration policy, the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 signed by Ronald Reagan, the number of illegal immigrants has risen dramatically. According to the Pew Hispanic Center this week, the number of illegal immigrants peaked in 2007 at about 12 million, just as the Bush administration ramped up enforcement of existing immigration laws. With the Obama administration’s continued enforcement and the economic recession, the estimated illegal immigrants declined to just over 11 million in 2011.

Estimating where exactly illegal immigrants reside in the United States is tricky, but the Pew Hispanic Center did just that in 2011 for each state. Although California has the highest number of illegal immigrants, Nevada has the largest proportion of illegal immigrants—7.2 percent of the state population and as much as 10 percent of its workforce. California and Texas follow at just under 7 percent of their populations, with New Jersey and Arizona rounding out the top five.

Mouse over your state on the map to see the estimated number of illegal immigrants living there and how that number has changed in the past two decades.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:10 | 3217835 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

mso its just the slave traders in Ca (1.85m) Tex (1.10m) Fla (0.6m) NY + NJ (0.85m) and Ill + Ga (0.7m) that are holding the US back from full employment, a massive increase in taxes/drop in EBT plus other benefits if these states simply obeyed the law? seven states have 5 million illegals. (there families would come to another 3 million probably).


maybe, as a transition measure, there could be forced labor from a significant portion of the 3m people in prisons in between returning the slaves back to somewhere ...ummm...canada right?

seriously, its shit or get off the pot time. either these "illegals" should be granted citizenship, or each of these large states should be targeted by a team of fifty thousand police, fema, atf, dhs, fbi, bail bondsman, etc etc for a three month clean up per state, to solve the problem in a couple of years.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:44 | 3217027 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

let's get our liberal screed correct, we love the working poor, but we hate Mexicans

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