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Greek Government Threatens Striking Seamen With Arrests Unless They Resume Work

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Over the weekend we reported on the second Greek strike of the year, the first being that of subway workers which ended prematurely into its ninth day when the government threatened to arrest all strikers who had snarled traffic in Athens to a halt, this time involving Greek seamen who had left the Greek isles in geographic isolation for a week. Earlier today, the strike which had gone on for a week, was voted to be extended another 48 hours which mean ships would remain tied up in port until early Friday, while the seamen's union will meet anew to debate whether to further extend their walkout. Needless to say, the union is angry at pay arrears and government austerity policies. As of moments ago the union will be even angrier, as the government just announced it would order civil mobilization - or said otherwise, deploy the arrest threats - once again as a repeat desperate measure to halt this latest strike.

From Bloomberg:

  • Greece’s government ordered civil mobilization to end 6 day strike, according to e-mailed statement from Shipping Ministry today.
  • Prime Minister Antonis Samaras authorized Shipping Minister Konstantinos Mousouroulis to take emergency action to get crews back to work, ministry says

So just as Argentina "proved" it was in charge of the economy when it prohibited price hikes, so Greece is gingerly following suit in the same footsteps, by making it clear it will not tolerate dissent. Until, as in Argentina, the reaction to this latest bout of enforced central planning bubbles over and the people realize they have had enough. The only question then is whether the riot police and army will be, miraculously, too busy striking to protect the government. As other people's money in Greece runs out one more time, and is simply stolen by the government, we will certainly find out by the summer.

 


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Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

its always a nightmare when your seamen aren't working

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Back to work slaves

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:07 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Greek government: we're not swallowing seamen striking.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:17 | Link to Comment Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

Time for a military coup

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:19 | Link to Comment bania
bania's picture

Come on seamen, show some motility!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

Too many years of tighty whiteys.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Back when I was younger I used to be a seamen, now I just put it all over my girlfriend's ass

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:22 | Link to Comment 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

I used to play bass guitar for "The Striking Seamen."

We toured with these other dudes who called themselves "Gimme Back-ma Drachma."

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:58 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

"Billy you ever been blown ashore?"  "No but I've been blown at sea."

Now let me put my string of pearls in yer booty!  Yarrr!

Pirate jokes...pirate jokes everywhere.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:45 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

You can have problems if you do not control your seamen.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

It's very upsetting to us when you slaves think for yourselves.

Please try to understand our predicament.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

How do you seperate the men from the boys in the Greek Navy?

With a crowbar.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:18 | Link to Comment kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Its the only semen the Government hasn't swallowed

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:20 | Link to Comment madcows
madcows's picture

Barney Frank has that covered

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:26 | Link to Comment pupton
pupton's picture

Mmmm, Barney Frank covered in seamen...mmmmmmmmmm

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 02:17 | Link to Comment Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I just threw up!  Gross thought.

I'm sure there's a townhouse in DC just for that.  His!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

I have had enough with all the anti seamantic talk:)

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:29 | Link to Comment xtop23
xtop23's picture

Exactly. It's only slavery during times of economic boom. When every sovereign is searching for growth and chasing after financial salvation, it's your duty. 

Get used to it. These parasites aren't going to give up the reins easily.

Besides, the mothers of the political class in Greece have overseas numbered accounts that need some lovin'. Eat your peas.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment pupton
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:10 | Link to Comment msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

They're gonna get blue balls if they don't get to work soon. 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:34 | Link to Comment goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

I know what you're saying, but there are solutions to that problem.  Me and my wife tried viagra and cialis in combination and its just worked wonders!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment soopy
soopy's picture

Actually that would probably save a lot of people some trouble.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

You come to arrest my seamen, you better pack a lunch, goddammit, cuz you're gonna have a long day...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment rotagen
rotagen's picture

Not surprising, the greeks are known for their naughty seamen.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Time to simply sail away guys...

 

More price controls, I am shocked I tell you...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

My seamen have been striking for years. It's going to take more than threatening to make them get back to work.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:11 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Come, seamen, all hands on deck.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

My semen has snarled some hair, but never traffic.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

So how is "work or you go to jail" different than having slaves on your plantation you force to work?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

It isn't.  Why people can't see the forest through the trees is beyond me.  

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Stuntgirl
Stuntgirl's picture

Wait. Is that what is going on here? A strike is realistically composed of 3 parts:

-Not going to work.

-Picketing

-Preventing strikebreaker workers' access to the workplace.

It is very unlikely that the striking workers are being fetched and made to work, or face jail.

It is very likely that striking workers are picketing and harassing strikebreakers, and that is what the reaction is against.

What do you think is the case?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Greek jails overflowing after swallowing seamen.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Glof-Clap stooge,

Very fucking good that one......

:-)

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:03 | Link to Comment chdwlch1
chdwlch1's picture

Nice one....and FUCK YOU BUKKAKE!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:29 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

If they're in jail how can they go back to work?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:40 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Bravo!  Just like how can you get someone to pay their taxes when you put them in jail for not paying taxes and then use tax money to take care of the person who is in jail for costing the government money from not paying taxes?

*Bangs head on wall*

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:02 | Link to Comment _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Nice one! Hadn't crossed my mind yet.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 19:36 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Debtors' prisons - alive and well in the United States

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors'_prison#Modern_Debtors.27_Prison

 

(for some reason the link only works if cut and pasted in its entirety.)

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Beat those semen into submission.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:08 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Wow, no sex in Greece.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:10 | Link to Comment PUD
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:22 | Link to Comment ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

I hear the request for delay will equal 3 years, 8 months and then the whole turd can be flushed.............

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I was hopeful we could (impeach) get rid of Obama before then.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:16 | Link to Comment HoaX
HoaX's picture

The Greek have been doing little else than strike for the past three years.

I have yet to see the first country that has managed to strike itself to prosperity. Those subway workers were striking because they risked being cut in wage to something like 2k Euro per month. The average wage in Portugal is well below 500 Euros, 2k is def upperclass over there. So if they don´t want their pay, just bloody quit, no one if forcing them to keep their job (which would be the slavery some above seem to point at). For them 20 others who would love to actually do their job for a wage like that instead of sitting on their fat asses and paralyzing all public transport, screwing those that do have work to go to. But no, they´re all organized in Unions that run all the way up to the top of the Policital system. So no offense, but fuck em in this respect.

Do those guys have no pride in their country? They should get to fucking work instead of behaving like spoiled babies only wanting free handouts from the rest of Europe and the IMF without giving up anything in return.

Clientelism, corruption, fascism. The Greek way.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:36 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Do those guys have no pride in their country? They should get to fucking work instead of behaving like spoiled babies

You selfish retard - do you work for free then? Typical asshole - demands others work for the love of their country while he presides over a fat salary (the inequality of which is why people cannot be paid for work)

Are you like other 'capitalist' - who forget that employment is an AGREEMENT between worker and employer - and no coerscion of force is allowed?

Funny how those who align themselves with the free market - quickly ignore it's principles when it suits them.

If you're that pissed - take a fucking flight to Greece and volunteer as a seaman - I will laugh as your puny weak arms can't even pull in the anchor!

People like you will eventually be run from the holes you reside in - a new world order is coming - and guess what - your 'worth' will be dictated by your productive ability - and not by how much gambling you do on the stock market.

 

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:43 | Link to Comment HoaX
HoaX's picture

You demonstrate quite aptly pretty much ALL that is wrong with your country. Fuckin marxist.

I told you about the salaries in Portugal, nurses make 4 euros per hour. Do you see them crying here?

Let me guess, you´re on strike as well? Get to work you fuck.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

While I will offer no support for the lazy classes of Greece -- from government lazycrat to unionized office drone -- the right to strike is always there.   My personal opinion in most strikes, is that the strikers should be instantly fired.  But arrested?  No.  The technical term for that scenario is "Slavery", and that ain't cool.

No one has to work.  But no one who strikes deserves a guarantee to keep their job either.   

Greece should fire the workers immediately and allow shit to go from bad to worse.   Capitalism will eventually lead to some group of people being willing to work for some sum of money.   And that arrangement will happen without government meddling.

 

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment HoaX
HoaX's picture

Listen popo, I might be a bit of a blunt fuck. And of course, I agree wages should be paid, that´s not the point though. The Greek have been striking their country into oblivion for the past years.

What the problem with these guys is though, that with their strike they basically hold all Greek Islands at ransom, who are depending on basic necessities like food to arrive with the very boats now chained up in Greek harbors.

In Portugal a lot of firemen have not been paid since November either, but they do realize they have to keep working or peoples houses will burn down. There are other ways to sort this stuff without highjacking the lives of people who have nothing to do with the mess.

Of course they shouldn´t be arrested, nowhere in my post I said they should. I do think they should all be fired, let others that do want a proper job pick it up. And fuck Greek Unions yeah.

 

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:48 | Link to Comment HoaX
HoaX's picture

Here is the report from the Guardian regarding the situation:

First it was striking metro workers, now it is seamen. Once again, amid fears of the Greek economy being devastated by their action, the ruling coalition has made use of mobilization orders that until recently had been a measure of last resort.

With the Panhellenic Union of Seamen announcing yet more strike action earlier today – grounding ships in docks for another 48 hours - the Greek government has hit back, saying as of 6 AM Wednesday protestors will be issued with mobilization papers that will give them little choice but to return to work or be fired.

Addressing reporters, Kostas Mousouroulis, the merchant marine minister, said: “The government has made every possible effort to satisfy the demands of seamen. We exhausted dialogue and came up with specific solutions.”

Clearly exasperated he added: “As the decision of the Panhellenic Seamens’ orgnanisation has shown, [a decision] that was reached by a marginal majority, petty political aims sadly leave no space for dialogue.”

The rolling strikes have meant that Greece’s islands have been cut off from the mainland for the past six days. The prospect of ferry links and transport boats being disrupted until Friday had been described as potentially devastating for an economy utterly dependent on bailout loans from the EU and IMF. 

Helena adds:

Island trade had been severely hit by the walk-out with local businesses, already badly affected by the financial crisis, saying they faced ruin.

Seamen are up in arms over austerity measures – the price of international rescue loans – and pay arrears.

Dockworkers, who had also joined the action, are similarly demanding back pay and restitution of collective work agreements that the government has been forced to abolish under pressure from international lenders.

It remains to be seen how seamen - and the anti-bailout parties supporting them - will react to the government order.

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/05/eurozone-crisis-spain-cor...)

I made some parts bold, and besides the backpay issue (for Dockworkers), my point still stands. There is also no talk of arrests, the mobilization order has to do with firing them if they dont comply, the title above the article here on ZH seems to be misleading to say the least. It would be another matter if they kept blocking ports afterwards.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

"Seamen are up in arms over austerity measures – the price of international rescue loans – and pay arrears.

Dockworkers, who had also joined the action, are similarly demanding back pay and restitution of collective work agreements that the government has been forced to abolish under pressure from international lenders."

International loans > collective work agreements

Maybe after the banksters get paid the workers will.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:23 | Link to Comment HoaX
HoaX's picture

So you think instead of making cuts in all areas to bring down the deficit they should just Print-print-print like Bernanke is doing?

At one point in time you will have to start living within your means. There has already been a quite big write-down on Greek debt and they got their bailout.

I´m not a fan of how big investment banks operate, and the lack of accountability there, but this is an entirely different discussion as that of a country running a structural deficit.

Not wrecking the entire economy (or what is left of it) > collective work agreements

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:30 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Pay the people the money they are owed for the work they have done. Then fire them all if you want.

Or go tits-up if you are that insolvent.

Greek government and international banks lied about the Greek situation so they could enter the EMU. Repudiate all debt based on fraud.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 19:41 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Rick Astley, I think I'm gonna puke.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment vintageyz
vintageyz's picture

"Seaman up in arms over austerity measures"  Wow, all the way up the arms?  Quite the money shot!  Oh, wait, no money?

 


Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

"Are you like other 'capitalist' - who forget that employment is an AGREEMENT between worker and employer - and no coerscion of force is allowed?"

You too conveniently forget that the Marxist-inspired unions, among other things, have corrupted this concept of capitalism.  You can't have it both ways.  Once you blend Marxist elements into the capitalist system, you destroy capitalism.  Like freedom and pregnancy, it is rather an all-or-nothing thing.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Who was referring to Marxism? - once again - like most ill-informed capitalists your only defence is attack (and usually attacking something completely irrelevant)

My point was (and still is) - it's Captialists who now demand this agreement is 'enforced'.

If you want to argue about 'pure capitalism' - then you need a totally unregulated market - that means ZERO regulation - so that means 'consumer choice' regualtes the market. You can see such markets in the middle ages - where anyone could set up a stall and sell 'meat' in the dark.

So when you die from Dysentry from bad meat - I presume you won't be shopping there again!

Totally unpractical - as they discovered hundreds of years before the USA was even 'born'. Hence regulation - which 'damages the free market'.

SO now you understand the BASICS of the problem - maybe you can tell us how you ensure the safety of consumers without 'interfering' in the markets.

...andlike ALL capitalists - you will be unable to provide a solution - and you are absurd for suggesting such a world is practical.

Take us back to the middle ages - seems to be the thrust of the free market argument.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:07 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Normally, I would be against strikes, but in this case, the strikes are for unpaid backwages, so it is a bit different. What do the anti-union posters suggest you do if your employer owes you 3 months of pay, and owns the police and courts?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:13 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

Go find another job.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

So if someone robs you, your solution is to just go work and earn money to replace what was stolen? 

Where do you live? I want to come rob you every month, since your solution is simply to keep going back to work to replace the money.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

Dude, how long would you work for someone who does not give you a paycheck?  As it turned out, that union contract was not worth the same as actual money.  That contract did not put food on the table or pay the rent.  What was the benefit to those workers to be so loyal to the union? 

And since you used the robbery metphor, I would assure you that you would only rob me once and get away with it.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 23:55 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Of course, I am an ordinary citizen, not a government, so I cannot get away with the things a government can.

Are they allowed to quit, or will they be imprisoned if they do that?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:12 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

"You can see such markets in the middle ages - where anyone could set up a stall and sell 'meat' in the dark."

You can still find it today in local markets and lemonade stands, until regulators shut them down.  Trust, confidence, and moral fortitude are all that is essential in a free market.  You argue that people are too stupid to seek after their own interests and to protect themselves.  If that is true, it is a result of placing their trust in central planners instead of thinking for themselves.  Go protect those people but leave me alone to fend for myself.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Blue Vervain
Blue Vervain's picture

Trust, confidence, and moral fortitude are all that is essential in a free market.

Logically this hold no water at all. Why would any of these qualities in the consumer prevent him or her from being poisoned in the perfectly good example given by another poster:

"You can see such markets in the middle ages - where anyone could set up a stall and sell 'meat' in the dark."

Secondly, the whole point of free market capitalists is that they seek to de-regulate; yet in direct contradiction to your later statement about trust, you start by invoking the regulator shutting down stalls to make your case. Are you a child?

I logged in to point out that your attempt at reasoning has detracted from the entire thread. If you'd simply offered puns about shooting seamen you'd have contributed more.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 15:45 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

Then you wasted your time.  Don't read my comments and fuck you if you are offended by them.

As to your other point, isn't it amazing that humanity has lasted for this long without the protective care of modern regulations?  In fact, communities, not central governments, are the key to economic stability and social evolution.  The centralization of power for the protection of the society or for economic efficiency will always be corrupt whereas a strong community built on trust protects itself from the meat seller who would sell you tainted meat.  If you cannot understand that basic concept, then you should reexamine your own logic.

And the point about regulators shutting down lemonade stands was to show the extent that the corruption of centralized power goes too far.  Are you really that dense to not understand that?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

+1

You started your post with italics, so arrows don't work.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:11 | Link to Comment slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

I don't get it. Every government wants inflation. Why not pay the higher wages and justify price hikes with that. People making more means they can afford to pay more.

Central banks have screwed this whole thing up from the get go. They still could have saved the bankers, but if they would have gone to bat for the people as well, then the people could have stepped in to save the banks and brought an an end to the eternal QE.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:37 | Link to Comment TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

The whole point is that their cb has no control ofnthe ccy and ecb is limited to whatbthey can do printing wise by protestations of germans.

Eu members have only controls of the fiscal policies ie austerity vs spending and once they run out of cash as greeks do every 2 weeks or so theybhave to go back begging to troika.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Jason T
Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:20 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

I have been following Armstrong's writings for a handful of years now.  Haven't always agreed with him on larger issues, but there is no doubt he is one smart guy with a real solid understanding of world finance and history.  He certainly has my attention on this subject.  Plus, I think one of his cycle dates is coming up later this year... then a big one in 2015.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Martin has got to be one of the SHARPEST guys period.   He has opinions which I don't agree with the senitment sometimes, but his facts, research, cylcles and historical understandings are second to none.  

Been reading him since he was sending out typed written letters/posts from Prision.  Read his life story sometimes.

Everyone would do well to do some background reading of Martin.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/armstrong_economics_blog/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/693-2/2012-2/

He is NOT anti Gold btw, I had an epiphany when he said "Gold Measures your comfort level about your Goverment"   paraphrasing....

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:17 | Link to Comment TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Very glad to see he is getting popular amongst ppl here. He is one of the few and only "out of the box" thinkers on economics finance and society and it would do a lot of good to a lot of ppl here to start reading and trying to understand him.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Next thing you know ~ they'll need a urine sample to get their jobs back

~~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_iPFHi1SWE

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:29 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Aw that's nothing - I britain the Gastaopo (or as they are more commonly known - the Metropolitain police force bully boys bastards) are not satisfied with preventing people returning to work - they want to kick people out of their jobs for their recreational drug use (but not alchohol and cigarettes please note)

http://www.itv.com/news/london/story/2013-01-30/met-chief-call-for-drug-testing/

Now they say 'anyone hwo refuses help' - but I don't need help getting off drugs - I need help GETTING drugs.

If they start sacking the 'drug takers' - there will be nobody with a brain left working in Britain.

(p.s. I don't take drugs to for enjoyment - they are a necessity to 'slow me down' so I don't make the incapable workforce feel so inadequate when they are around me)

...now imagine what a problem I would be without a job to occupy me during the day.....it's only work which is stopping all out revolution.

When the clever people get fired (as they are generally the only ones left in work) - then we will see the authorities out-foxed and capitulaing in a matter of days.

Currently the system survives on the fact that the 'early redundancies' are unable to get their act together and bring down the Gover-banking-ment

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:15 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

I suppose this is where Capitalism fails - the capitalist can no longer pay the worker enough to sustain him or his family - so the capitalist demands that the worker works for less than he can survive on.

 

...and before you all get confused - in Greece the seamans union covers both public and private sector workers - and the public sector wage level is being set all around the world (or at least it's being attempted by the wailings of the self-interested right) by the private sector.

What a shame most people are missing the point of this latest debacle - as Marx clearly demonstrated - the value of labout is higher than the value of the output of labour - this is not the fault of the worker - but the fault of the inflation which is 'solving' the crisis.

 

...and before the free market donkeys start braying about the 'FED' or the other central banks CAUSING this (as they love to repeat things others have said and claim them for their own - like capitalism trains them) - they should check back through history and see that central bank interference always follows a crisis of capitalism - not the other way around.

 

For me - this is like watching a world of children try to fathom out how a microwave works - we have 2 schools of thought - those who call it 'magic' and those who say 'the heat comes from the wire'

 

Bloody morons

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Better run this through Google translate.

It might give it a point.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Let me paraphrase:

"The value of anything is the person who does the work, not the people who try to parasitize it."

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

This has never been a crisis of capitalism. Before you comment maybe you should at least have some idea of what capitalism is. Capitalism not only allows people to be rewarded for their successes it also requires them to be punished for their failings . What we are experiencing is a fascist debt based system falling apart, where the connected are rewarded and their failings are passed on to the tax payer. The beauty of the current system,from a fascist point of view, is that it has just enough "capitalism" and "socialism" to allow the ignorant the opportunity to point at the particular " ism" they don't like as the problem.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Well, it's like some of the old mining towns where the company owned the mine, all the stores, and the security force.

They might pay you $1.00 a day but a drink or a loaf of bread would cost you $1.00 instead of 0.05 cents because they owned the stores; and the security force was there to keep you in town, in line, and on the job and not protect you or mete out justice of any kind.

This is where the Western world is; cities/towns/states/nations have been turned into company mining towns run by banks.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I won't argue that point, but there again it's not an example of capitalism. In capitalism there would be competition, your mining town example is a monopoly.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:21 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

When has pure capitalism ever existed?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Did I say it did? Read my original post.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Did I say you said it did? I asked a question. Where is this perfect capitalism? I can't find it. I was hoping you knew, but you are in fightclub mode.

Carry on.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I started to expand but you were too quick to respond. There is no sort of pure "ism" out there other than fascism. Human corruption distorts and  destroys all other forms of "isms". The closest thing to a pure free market would be a garage sale or a flea market..but that is about it. As a free market person I wish it were different ,but that will never be the case.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

How do you enforce a free market?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

All I can hear is "nah nah nah - this isn't capitalism"

YES IT FUCKING IS.

AS I predicted - the capitalists wait until a couple of years into the depression and then try to re-write history.

Maybe YOU should look up what capitalism is - and how it actually works - rather than accepting someone else's interpretation of it.

Adam Smith - 'the invisible hand'

Karl Mark - 'surplus value'

These and many others have identified the root failings of capitalism - the cause of bubbles and depressions. Capitalism is nothing but consistent.

Capitalism morphs into centralised control - as it did after the last depression (the rise of Hitler and Stalin etc.) - this is because the INEVITABLE collapse of capitalism causes an exploitable power vacumn.

...but let me guess - in your 'theoretical' world the collapse happens and we simply all 'get on with it'

Like ALL capitalist supporters - you forget that HUMANS don't like being thrown on the scrap heap every 70 years thanks to the cluster of imbicillic morons who theorise that allowing the collapse will 'solve everything'.

They allowed the collapse and deflation in 1929 - how did that work out for ya?

If America hadn't joined the war - the unrest back home would have ended in revolution and America would have been centrally controlled - just like Germany and the USSR were.

Luckily the alternative to this was to send millions of soldiers to their deaths as a distraction.

Now please - look at economic history before you make claims about theoretical economic futures.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:48 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

"Capitalism morphs into centralised control"

Whereas Marxism jumps immediately into centralized control.  Find another argument.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 15:25 | Link to Comment MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

You have no idea what you are talking about.  Go back to Russia

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:49 | Link to Comment Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

Hey writing- What we have here is an ethical, social, moral, and criminal crisis. It has nothing to do with capitalism.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:34 | Link to Comment css1971
css1971's picture

With a free market, they can walk away and find employment with someone more successful who has more money.

With government coercion, they get beaten, arrested or shot.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:16 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

I'd like to see those seamen go up the ass of the EU parliment where they should be.

 

Fuck you EU nation destroying fuckers (cue Nigel Farage)

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:16 | Link to Comment pleseus
pleseus's picture

Forcing people to work.  Aren't they called slaves.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

"When the Romans bankers were marching me to the galleys, thirst had almost killed me. A man gave me water to drink, and I went on living. I should have done better if I'd poured it into the sand!"

 

-Judah Ben Hur

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:18 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Hmmm.

Work without pay or stay home.

Tough choice.

This is why you need unions.

Wait a minute...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:19 | Link to Comment Marley
Marley's picture

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  More meat for the base.  "Those socialist will stop at nothing."  Buy gold.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:25 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

In related news of this bizarre world:

Eric Holder on CNBC giving a press conference on the suit against S&P ratings agency INSTEAD OF THE BANKS WHO WERE FIXING RATES THEMSELVES AND SELLING THE MBS's AND DERIVATIVES!!!!

"Hang the driver of the get-away car but let the guys that pulled the triggers on the guns and killed 17 people go free" justice.

Beyond Belief!!!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Just what else would you expect from an affirmative action appointment by the chairman Obama?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment madcows
madcows's picture

Don't you know that Holder is a criminal, and the bankers are his financiers?  He deserves to be hanged, drawn and quatered, boiled and left on the Capital's steps.

The list of his atrocities is pages long. 

But, the S&P?  Well, they didn't take the Messiah's directive to intentionly lie about the Country's financial health.  So, they must be made an example of.  Moody's and company must be intimidated in order to keep the farce going.

I'm more convinced with each day that this ends in revolution and sucession.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment madcows
madcows's picture

It's a central planner cluster fuck around the whole world.

And the US has a higher debt per capita than Greece. How soon until we suffer the same anarchy?

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:27 | Link to Comment Anglo Hondo
Anglo Hondo's picture

Don't forget that many of those seamen haven't been paid since November.  Forced labor for no pay is the new Europe.

 

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Greece goes back 3000 years, soon to be seen wearing togas and drinking psychedlic beer while discussing philosophy while slaves do all the work.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:27 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

MOLON LABE

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Seaman: Were's my paycheck?

Greek politician from behind a wall of police: MOLON LABE, MALAKA!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:29 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Hang the fucking politicians my Greek friends.

And if the coppers wont help you, hang them fuckers as well.  Hang the fucking lot of the criminal wealth destroying fuckers.  As much use as a fucking chocolate fire guard this lot of thieves are.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:38 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

When I see crowds of thousands being beaten with batons by groups of hundreds, I sit there and wonder when the thousands will realize they can pummel the hundreds by sheer strength in numbers.  Then I remind myself that they've been programmed to be good little slaves since birth.  

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

My fav quote from VI Lenin: a man with a gun controls a hundred without one.

Welcome to democracy 21 century style.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:50 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Exactly.

And this is why Obama and TPTB are trying so hard to get "assault" weapons and "high-capacity" ammunition clips banned.

God forbid the populace should have the same firepower the police and military do; the government might have to be responsible!

So much easier to force people to work and oppress them when they have no means to resist or overthrow you.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Yes sir. One can do worse then rereading top quotes of 19th and 20th century dictators to understand what todays govt games are.

You see in those days they didnt have pesky media types running around so their writings were certainly far juicier.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:09 | Link to Comment helping_friendl...
helping_friendly_book's picture

Let's go gun boy. Just waiting for you to put out the word. Better do it now before the drones with machine guns are deployed.

Just look at bv MacArthur, Patton legacy. They opened fire on WWI veteran bonus marchers in D.C. They never paid for what they did or who they killed. They were rewarded w/ WWII.

Trying to fight the gov't with unlimited (your) resources is futile.

Now get back to work!

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

 

That episode (among many others) always makes me worry when I hear people say that those in uniform won't fire on civilians when ordered but will overthrow their commanders instead.

 

History has shown us otherwise time and time again.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I had an operation to out my seamen on unemployment permanently.  Now they simply play all of the time.  I thought they were Scot/Itrish seaman, but evidently they are greek.

 

It would take a specialist to put them back to work again.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment Stonedog
Stonedog's picture

While I am normally not a fan of unions, under circumstances like these where the workers have not been paid for months, I feel that there is something appropriate in the strike.  

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:07 | Link to Comment khakuda
khakuda's picture

They should just film all this stuff real time and make an Atlas Shrugged movie.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:11 | Link to Comment dadichris
dadichris's picture

threatening seamen

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:22 | Link to Comment foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

Barry's utopia

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment css1971
css1971's picture

So in Greece you work or you get arrested. If you don't want to be arrested (for not working for free) and resist, you will probably be forced.

 

Apparently slavery is just fine as far as the government and Greek rulers are concerned.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

One day the head slave say`s

 

Sink the fucking ships

Cannot work anyway, problem solved.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I meant to jump into the seamen jokes but I see they have al lbeen covered in splooge..

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I have no sympathy for the Greeks as long as Euro approval is above 50%.  

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 02:44 | Link to Comment They Tried to S...
They Tried to Steal My Gold's picture

it's probably 25% but the government sent thr other 25% to Swiss bank accounts...

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Yperkeimenos
Yperkeimenos's picture

That's what happens when the people are not allowed, by law,to carry weapons.The Corrupt Goverment,having a monopoly on guns,turns them, without second thought, on anyone deemed a dissenter.Too bad for the people who can't fire back.

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 20:14 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

We need to see more seamen flying over the walls of the Greek parliament building.

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