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CME Cuts Gold, Silver Margins

Tyler Durden's picture


Any trader of paper gold and silver will likely never forget the endless and certainly parabolic barrage of margin hikes that the CME imposed in the spring and summer of 2011 which had only one purpose: to break the back of the relentless anti-fiat rally in the precious metals (and which culminated with the historic May 1 take down of silver when the metal plunged some 15% in the span of seconds). Since then, perhaps as a result of initial and maintenance margins still at residual levels indicative of when the S&P was some 30% lower and some $4 trillion less in slushing global central bank liquidity, the upside euphoria in gold and silver has been decidedly hobbled, perhaps so much that the CME is now scrambling to find a whole new set of gullible investors who will obediently put their money in the paper trap, only to see a surge followed by yet another mauling from soaring margin demands. After all, the CME needs trading volume to keep the cash flow flowing - killing the paper market in any one product suits nobody. Sure enough, moments ago, the CME once again cut margins in a slew of products, most notably gold and silver, by some 10% and 14%.

Good luck CME with finding people gullible enough to trust you this time around.


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Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:41 | 3224527 trav777
trav777's picture

waaaah waaaah waaah manipulation

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:55 | 3224538 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

FB and AAPL longs got blowtorched, hey trav?  lol.

I remember the 15% waterfall on that fateful Sunday evening during slower Asian futures trading.  Seems rather odd that they "found" Osama that same day.  Ya, no manipulation here..... lol. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:09 | 3224597 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

Be long sovereign blow torches here. 


Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3224631 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“Attention K-Mart Shoppers, in aisle 15 under the flashing blue light, for the next 15 minutes we have an up 14 percent discount on the cost to secure claims on genuine fake precious metals. Get yours now in order not to miss the next paper contract sucker slam event. "

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:34 | 3224656 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Trav you are such a fool when it comes to silver.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:09 | 3224741 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Trav is simply the latest iteration of Math Man. He will "disappear" as well.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 01:10 | 3225207 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

In case you haven't seen this two minute clip of Kyle Bass explaining the fractional reserve COMEX, and why U of Texas took delivery of their billion dollars of gold bullion:

It's really all you need to know about paper gold, ETFs, etc....

"If you can't stand in front of it and defend it with an AR-15, you don't own it" Ann Barnhardt


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 04:46 | 3225316 dunce
dunce's picture

If i was 40 years younger i would want to marry Barnhardt, she is not bad looking and has a real fine mind. Some women have fine behinds but not after 20 years, some times not after 10 years.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 00:44 | 3225174 trav777
trav777's picture

why, because I didn't buy with both fists at $49, like you did?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 03:52 | 3225290 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

Somebody didn't get his xanax prescription filled huh trav?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 10:18 | 3225612 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

He can't afford it...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:41 | 3224671 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Fool me once, shame on you..... and all that. Nobody with an IQ higher than a parameceum is going to play that game again. Take physical delivery and sleep soundly.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:03 | 3224727 Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture

I resemble that remark!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:43 | 3224813 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Unfortunately the world is long on idiots.  Plenty of suckers still out there.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:43 | 3224920 Thomas
Thomas's picture

long equities/short brains

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:55 | 3224946 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I disagree with the idea that there will be a failure to lure the apes into the paper metal nets.

P. T. got it right:

"There's a sucker born every minute"

Wishful thinking on the part of Tyler this time...

"Good luck CME with finding people gullible enough to trust you this time around."

There's always a game if ya wanna play.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:26 | 3225027 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I agree with RR... A classic 'cast of characters' might be the ones who RODE THE S&P all the way back up to the top [against the warnings of the doomer goldbugs]... Now that we're at that point, maybe a few of them decide to be real coy & take some chips off the table in 'stawks'... Move on over into paper commodities... Brag about their keen market 'TIMING'...


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 00:07 | 3225116 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I agree with RR and F_S.  Not that it matters because all of our metals at the bottom of some lake and are not affected.  We are horrible boaters.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:36 | 3225047 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

You mean the old saying from Tennessee?

I can't decide what seems cheaper now... Been buying gold more than silver, but last year I added silver at 33 and a bit at 27. It's all good, a few percent more or less won't make a difference in the scenario we are prepping for

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 01:12 | 3225212 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

The world is filled with paramecium... Reload the margin cannon and watch the suckers stand in line to get their heads blown off...

On the other hand, premium is on the rise... Maybe we get lucky this go around and the damn thing is spiked.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:06 | 3224858 The Fonz...befo...
The Fonz...before shark jump's picture

G?nxiè nín gèng piányi de j?n, yín

That's mandarin for thank you for cheaper gold silver prices

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:16 | 3224876 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

CME - Criminal Muppet Eaters.


Fucking pricks, fuck off.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 23:15 | 3239257 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

When soylent muppet is what’s swimming in the shark pool …

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:22 | 3225015 SaveTheBales
SaveTheBales's picture

I would guess most people here have a core holding of gold and trade around it.  Emotionalism is a sign of over-allocation, under-hedging or both.  I hope the damn Eagles go to face value.  I'll toss them from cruise ships at the politicians, and watch them grovel on the pier.

A gander at a long-term chart for the metals suggests to me that being high-strung over their short-term price behavior is irrational.  Its just one more piece of insurance that folks use in case of Total Fucking Collapse.  That's not as unthinkable as it used to be, so gold catches a bid.  Go figure.

See?  Not everyone in ZH is a pajama-clad gold bug hiding in a bunker waiting for Nibiru.  Lighten up, Frances. 


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 01:26 | 3225226 jballz
jballz's picture


you are all pathologically fucking paranoid. And you have no idea how markets work if you believe a 15% margin hike was designed to crush a rally. This is the biggest, dumbest, total piece of fiction out there and every time zerohedge posts it I believe them to be seriously fucking retarded. 

If you were the guarantor of a silver spec- assuming you had any money- how much margin would YOU make some random schmuck in another time zone or country put up to back the trade?

It's not a conspiracy or a manipulation. You are a dumb asshole.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:43 | 3224532 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Not to mention that if this leads to higher paper prices it acts as another tax upon the concerned citizenry of these United States of America.

Fuck the manipulated markets and charade.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:44 | 3224535 Racer
Racer's picture

Yes, they have been finding it very difficult to keep the prices down so now need more suckers to do it for them

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:49 | 3224542 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Deflation will come.  The opportunity to buy commodities will come.  Be in cash.  Stocks will crash and when they retrace 666 you should buy silver.  It will be your last chance.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:51 | 3224554 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Deflation is gold positive, have you looked at the gold price during the last depression?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:53 | 3224559 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture


Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:33 | 3224653 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Riddle me this!

Which "asset" bottomed first in the Crash of '08 - '09??

Gold, or equity???

Do you have an answer?

If not, you should go look at some charts right now!

[Looks at watch....]


Did you not go?  Still waiting for an answer??

Gold bottomed first!  Muahahahaha!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:28 | 3224777 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Riddle me this my good man.  Why did gold go from a thousand bucks to $700 that year?  eh? Did it follow the market down?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:52 | 3224829 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

No, it lead the market down, because the market follows gold.

And a 30% correction when the Dow ass fucked everyone by getting cut by more than half is fine, especially when it started ramping up in the fall when equity bottomed in the spring.

Gold wins, you lose.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:03 | 3224853 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Really?  In 2008 gold went from $900 to $900.  The Dow went from 12000 to 8000.  Math wins.   You lose.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:59 | 3224950 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It's not important what went down when.  The important part is WHY.

If gold is indeed a store of value, then that value was tapped in the crisis.  Just as it should have.

Gold displayed the perfect example of why we hold it.  To get on the other side of the crisis intact.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:03 | 3224966 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Astute observation, and correct assessment.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:00 | 3224578 seek
seek's picture

The price of gold in the last depression was a jail sentence. That speaks volumes about its (positive) value.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:20 | 3224620 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Even during the last depression, you still would have been way better off than the guy with his money in the Markets who lost eveything.  This time it's not just the stock markets, but the actual money in your bank or under the mattress.  You want to be long fiat?  Good luck.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:45 | 3224673 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"The price of gold in the last depression was a jail sentence. That speaks volumes about its (positive) value."


spoken like a truly obedient debt slave...

so scared of "the man" and all his oppressive powers...

go ahead...keep collecting debt coupon dollars or saving whats left of their value since 1914 (uh, what thats - 2%) in the other banker controlled investment vehicles yeilding NOTHING and worth NOTHING adjusted for REAL inflation and TAXES...

sounds like a winning hand - man....

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:58 | 3224718 seek
seek's picture

Uh, I think you missed the point. I'm a huge gold bug as anyone who's read my postings will know.

Gold was the one things of value that preserved wealth, hence it was made illegal. As I said, this speaks volumes about its positive value.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:15 | 3224752 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

My bad...missed the sarcasm designation....

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 01:04 | 3225201 trav777
trav777's picture

only if you're fuckin stupid.

The penalties were for hoarding gold and specifically coinage, bullion, money.

Not jewelry.  The modern age makes a smelter within reach of nearly everybody.

I bet you people didn't know that I am highly religious.  I intend to show that with either a calf made of gold or a gigantic cross.  Neither of these religious symbols can be seized or would violate any of these provisions. 

You people with your bullion are the real doomers.  Us religious people are praying for your our solid gold calves.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 09:54 | 3225561 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Ha Ha, I almost thought this was Bob Dalina

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 10:28 | 3225653 Room 101
Room 101's picture

+1.'re an asshole.  But an asshole I've come to appreciate from time to time.  Excellent post.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 10:35 | 3225668 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

you think the govt in a SHTF situation is going to go for that bullshit- it's like if they ban assault rifles and I tie a stick onto my AK to form a cross and say that it's a religous icon that they are going to let it slide?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 05:38 | 3225333 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

Deflation might come, but it will be minor and brief, given the # of Central Bank money printers in the asset price control loop. I doubt 2013 will turn out like 2008.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:47 | 3224545 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

CME can go fuck itself. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:57 | 3224841 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.  Okay already.  Why these brainless epithets get any response at all is starting to bother me.  All you people who upvote them so prolifically should go watch Southpark.  Maybe you can see Cartman take a big crap or something. Upvote that.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:52 | 3224939 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Tenpan is mad because Cartman called him a fucking faggot for revving up his fucking faggy ass Harley. Fucking fag

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:31 | 3225035 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Shit. Fuck. Buggety Bugger................ & tits.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 16:55 | 3227105 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

+1 for "Buggety Bugger................ & tits"

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 16:58 | 3227113 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

is that you Cartman?  I'd think someone calling itself Mr. Pink wouln't be calling others fags.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:26 | 3224891 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

In the ass sideways.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:00 | 3224954 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

"CME can go fuck itself."

It will... as soon as it's finished with us!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:48 | 3224548 bobthehorse
bobthehorse's picture

More market manipulation.


It's par for the course.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:50 | 3224550 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

Its the shorts in the paper metals markets that need lower margins so they can double down even more.

Longs are sitting pretty and waiting for something to give.

Gold OI is at august levels and $100 higher in price.. can you say "physical market" anyone?

Also. JPM and Silver have a price relationship and JPM has now extended to the sell JPM long Silver trade zone. Go check. Something happens when JPM and XAG are this stretched.  First time resulted in run up to 50 for Silver to catch up. The second two times JPM cam down big.

Nice trade

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:38 | 3224664 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

need moar contrakts

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:53 | 3224710 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:01 | 3224722 slyhill
slyhill's picture

cell sum stawkes

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 19:55 | 3224563 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

Well, sales of Silver Eagles stand at roughly 8.3 million sofar vs. 7.4 in all of Jan/Feb in 2012, so the metals is still flying off their shelves.

Clif High from halfpasthuman has forecast a quick rise up in the next weeks (which might well be the attempt to get investors back in), followed by a massive "sell your silver now before it's too late" campain, with "lines in front of the shops that are buying".

He prognosticates (based on his webbot analysis) that this concerted effort will bring the price down by roughly a third, only to be followed by an inesorable rise over the next years caused by the lack of physical supply.

A lot of his prognostications are being met, more happen by the day, so imo that increases the probability of this price development. Unfortunately also of the other, far more serious events he sees on the horizon

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:13 | 3224595 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Cliff High predicted a major US Naval battle or US ship sinking on March 2, 2012 that was to be an inside job and blamed on Iran, that didn't occur.  His record is not what you say.

Similarly, in October 2011, James Turk and David Morgan both came out claiming Silver would head back up to $50 in very short order.

The truth is no one on this planet knows what the future holds.  But we can hedge.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:27 | 3224640 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

You don't have to take my word for it, nor am I saying that everything coming out of his data actually happens. However, due to the exponential increase of immediacy data and the outlined events he is doing weekly audio updates now, if not two, and hits come in almost daily.

Here is a blogger that summarizes his audios and reports on the hits. Just scroll back in time, the posts are easily recognized

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:36 | 3225046 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Did Cliff High predict that francis_sawyer would JUNK you?... I'm pouring through his notes trying to find that one... It must be in the ElliottWave secton...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:28 | 3224644 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

+1, Nope

All we know is that if demand every trumps supply then the price will sky rocket.  Until then, what does it matter how many $$ it takes to buy for?  It doesn't; the dollar is no metric of value.  This means that the $ value could go up and it could go down.  Pay no attention to the magicians hat in his right hand.... his left hand.  Then you will see the trick.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:36 | 3224658 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

"if demand every trumps supply"


Keyword " if "...and if it doesn't? The offshoot of higher metals prices the past few years is greater exploration and eventual reserves and production. It happens in every instance, silver is no different. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:44 | 3224681 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Thanks for the joke.

The question is not if but when.

Industrial demand is high and steady and investor demand is ever rising.  Supply may have peaked years ago.

And if you think technological advances will speed up production, fine, but that will also speed up getting to the peak and it will speed up the volacity of the downside of production.

Ever drink a sundue with a straw?  What happens when you have the straw at the bottom the whole time?

All gone!

And what if you use a bigger straw?

lol again....

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:17 | 3224759 espirit
espirit's picture

...and it's getting cheaper to dig up. sarc/

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:52 | 3224938 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

Yes, but with a slowing economy in conjunction with a reduction in disposable income world wide leading to a major reduction in industrial needs for AG which consumes some 90% of silver produced annually, the fiat price of silver will decline wont it?

Either way, I prefer silver in the safe versus FRNs with the banksters!!!

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 07:02 | 3225356 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

Not sure if you remember/are aware of it, but Clif High's linguistics do not forecast actual events, but words that appear in the media describing events, without distinction between potential or real ones.

A Google search for "uss enterprise persian gulf blow up" comes up with 392.000 results, most of them in 2012 (thats when the Enterprise was in the media), so I reckon that prediction could be considered as fulfilled.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:00 | 3224577 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Platinum has had a great run recently, up about 11% in 30 days.  Is it significant?


"Platinum on the March?!"

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:25 | 3224633 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I know I don't need to tell you, but....

Keep stackin'!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:25 | 3225023 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

I sold the last bit (but most of it too early, half way up) of my plat/pal play yesterday and as money settles I moved it to gold and silver sticks which seem very undervalued.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:01 | 3224581 seek
seek's picture

I think Tyler should link to an Admiral Akbar pic for these moves, just like the deer-in-headlights for the market crashses.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:01 | 3224582 The Econ Ideal
The Econ Ideal's picture

Silver still has relatively high margin reqmts. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:04 | 3224587 Stonecold
Stonecold's picture

Last time the CME Lowered margins on gold and silver the price droped on both. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:11 | 3224603 saints51
saints51's picture

They are not finished accumulating.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:24 | 3224629 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Accumulating what?  Tungsten?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:21 | 3225010 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Not the CME but the elites

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:09 | 3224598 pirea
Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:22 | 3224618 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I saw the May Day takedown live.

As horrible as it was, I watched in awe.  It is an amazing amount of power that the Fiat Ponzi holds and when they flash their guns it is like watching a dragon destroy a village.  Yet as someone who stacks the precious metals I care not what they do to the price.  Bring it down, I care not.  I am like a knight in fucking shining armor.  I will set a new buying level and keep stacking.

Soon we will kill the dragon because demand will outweigh supply.  This will force the price up and cripple the Ponzi; the Ponzi's paper can only suppress price until the demand dictates the action.

This could be soon, but let's speed up the timeline.

Join me

Buy Silver!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:29 | 3224647 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

I am with you and have been for the better part of 5 years...

Considered yourself joined and please - 


This is war................ 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:38 | 3224665 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Indeed it is.  Many people out there find it important to own guns and food, and it is true, thus items will be of great value to defend oneslf.  Yet what many miss is that we do have an offensive weapon. 

If we take back the money supply, the real money supply, from the banking cabal that has roped the people of this world into believing their lies, then we can dictate the terms of the next economic paradigm.

Gold and silver is money! 

Get some!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:46 | 3224689 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture


Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:52 | 3224706 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Buy silver - and take delivery!

I did my bit to help save America tonight!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:43 | 3224811 Jungle Jim
Jungle Jim's picture

I guess I "joined" in October of 2010, when I bought my first green monster box. Later, during the big run-up in very early 2011 I added two more, and later picked up around 100 ounces of mixed 90 percent. I picked up a few gold pieces too during the same period.

Sadly, it was all lost when my aluminum trimaran inexplicably capsized in the lake on a calm day. But I suppose that was just as well, since it was all depreciating in market value. Even if I could recover it all from the bottom of the lake now, most of it would be worth less than what I paid for it.

And I am now already at the point where (if I still had it) I'd be willing to sell much of it for whatever I could get, because I have no other assets or income anymore. I gambled that my stacks would go up in value, perhaps dramatically, by now. I lost that bet, badly. Now I'm living on my credit cards, until they play out, which will be soon. A month, maybe two.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3224636 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

I wish I could remember the cite, (Ritholtz?), but there was a pretty decent correlation with Central Bank buying supporting the price of gold.

Once again, this isn't for me (who is not a trader/Wall St. worker) to come to a decent conclusion. However, there is opinion out there that is contrary to some of the information posted here on ZH.

I'm not trying to discredit ZH, I've been here since near beginning, and have seen the "poster decline" of actual conversation. ZH still offers some excellent analysis from time to time, but I think the readership should use their own discretion.  All I'd like to point out is the questioning of these margin hikes. Specifically, there was supposed to be a scheduled margin hike some time ago that was supposed to chase ALL speculation in pricing, but never came to be. No one was able to answer those questions then (see prior posting date from CME), I'm guessing no one could answer them now.

After years of following ZH, I seriously have to question "some" of the validity of their speculations, which is what some of these articles do. Mindful, that I have read the disclaimer, so all may not appear as it would seem.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:34 | 3224655 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Very begining is 2009 not 2011. Few people were here on the very begining.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 21:08 | 3224740 Northeaster
Northeaster's picture

Right, because we didn't lurk before.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:35 | 3224657 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

and in other news....

"In the document, prosecutors alleged that Monte dei Paschi's then chief financial officer Marco Morelli had signed an indemnity document in favour of J.P. Morgan which was hidden from the regulator. J.P. Morgan in 2008 underwrote a 1 billion euro capital increase in Monte dei Paschi, and then structured the Fresh 2008 hybrid instrument, convertible in Monte dei Paschi's shares, and sold it to a number of investors. J.P. Morgan in Milan declined to comment.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:36 | 3224659 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Hoping for a dip - Have some fiat I'd like to get rid of!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:41 | 3224672 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I'd say $31/silver is in the cards, and it looks like the charts say that PMs will trade sideways for another month or two....

Problem is, who knows.  If a trigger is pulled and LIBOR bites the markets, or there is a war in the ME (like in the House of Sa'uud), and oil begins to move upward violently, there could be a run on silver, and if silver breaks $40 it won't stop at $50 this time, it will stop around $75.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:50 | 3224932 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Exactly...and there's lots that could go wrong out there that could be a trigger.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:03 | 3224969 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I don't really think about metals in terms of fiat exchange, just as a store of my efforts.

I am 'rewarded' for my efforts in paper that I don't trust, so I exchange it, when possible, for something that history tells me has always been a store of value.

I could be wrong, of course. History doesn't have to repeat, but it's the best guide we have.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 01:17 | 3225218 trav777
trav777's picture

ok...let me just say here for you bluntly:  it is not the destiny of silverbugz to be rich.  If you were the rich type, you wouldn't be fucking silverbugz, you'd have some class and be buying platinum and gold.

Silver is just a slightly scarcer industrial metal.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 23:16 | 3239262 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Funny you should mention that:

alternatively …

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:37 | 3224660 rhinoblitzing
rhinoblitzing's picture

How about a chart overlaying the margin Req's ????

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:39 | 3224668 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

All the cme wanted was to load up for the real ride up.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 20:42 | 3224677 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

How could this be viewed as anything but manipulation? If you think about it for half a second, any amount of margin could also be leveraged off the exchange. It could be borrowed from a shylock for all the CME knows (or worse, borrowed from JPM). There is no way for the CME to assess the credit risk or credit worthiness of all of the participants on the exchange. That's what clearing is  about. The very idea that they can manage client and exchange risk with such a blunt one-size-fits-all margin limit is ludicrous, albeit consistent with a central planning ideology, i.e., “because I said so”.  

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 23:17 | 3239274 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That’s not the purpose of the risk assessment.

The purpose of CME’s margin requirements is to idealize profit vs RISK TO CME, not risk to the players.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:01 | 3224956 BrigstockBoy
BrigstockBoy's picture

Why doesn't Santelli address this? It's right in his back yard!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:02 | 3224959 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Gimme a good, deep drop. My truck is running out of diesel. It's in reverse and ready to go.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:02 | 3224961 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

WOW! You mean I can now buy paper rights to silver and gold cheaper with borrowed money than ever before! I'm all in! Sign me up! I'm going to take that Chase credit card offer they keep sending me and buy, buy buy! This is the opportunity of a lifetime. I don't want to be left behind. Thank you CME - you're the best!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 23:08 | 3224977 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Come one, come all!

Welcome to the machine!


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 04:10 | 3225297 devo
devo's picture

They lower margins because people are moving into physical?

Bullish for confiscation or gold tax.

They're not going to let peons like us win.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 04:55 | 3225324 dunce
dunce's picture

I want thank all those bad mouthing PM, i can buy more at the lower prices.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 07:01 | 3225354 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture


Sun, 02/10/2013 - 09:18 | 3230302 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

answer this


I should load up on margin and buy...?

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