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Greek Tax Hikes Backfire As Tax Revenues Plunge 16%

Tyler Durden's picture





 

There was some hope that Greece, which for the past few months was desperately trying to show it has a primary surplus when in fact it was merely shoving unpaid bills under the rug, was at least getting its runaway deficit situation under control. This, despite what many sensible people pointed out was the return of nearly daily strikes, which meant zero government revenue as zero taxes could be levied on zero wages. Turns out the sensible people were again right, and the Greek and European propaganda machine has failed once more as the Greek Finance Ministry just reported that despite big tax hikes demanded as part of austerity measures by international lenders, tax revenues fell precipitously in January, with the Greek Finance Ministry reporting a 16 percent decrease from a year earlier, and a loss of 775 million euros, or $1.05 billion in one month.

This means that the government took in only €4.05 billion ($5.47 billion) in tax revenues in January, far short of its target of €4.36 billion ($5.89 billion), a $420 million shortfall in one month, which also came during an annual holiday sales period for shops who are bleeding customers and shutting down by the thousands.

It is all downhill from here as the feedback loop of more spending cuts is activated to offset declining revenues, leading to even less revenue, and culminating with the complete collapse of Greek society.

From Greek Reporter:

If Greece fails to meet revenue targets it will trigger a correction clause at the end of each quarter of the year, setting off automatic spending cuts except for pensions and salaries. That could further harm already-depleted government services.

 

Finance Ministry officials attributed the decline in tax revenues to the drop in consumption, as revenues from Value Added Tax (VAT) shrank by 15 percent, while those from the special consumption taxes were also lower. Greeks hammered by big pay cuts, tax hikes and slashed pensions have cut back spending even on essential items, with supermarket sales falling 500 million euros, ($6763 million) in 2012.

 

The numbers could have been worse as the government gained revenues from doubled property taxes and big hikes in income taxes that have hit most Greeks except for tax cheats who continue to largely escape sacrifice or prosecution.

This may well be the last straw for a "fixed" Greek crisis - "the only options left for the government is to collect from tax evaders and improve tax collections, although tax hikes have led to many more Greeks trying to hide their income, statistics showed." Of course, nobody could have predicted that too.

The Troika and other EU countries offered to help Greece collect taxes but little interest has been shown by the government. The new General Secretary for State Revenues, Haris Theoharis, plans to meet directors of the 36 biggest tax offices in the country to study ways of collecting expired debts, according to proposals by the country’s creditors and the European Commission’s Task Force for Greece.

Does this mean that paying hedge funds at 50 cents on the dollar on their worthless Greek bonds was not the best idea?

But, but the spin was that if only all Greek debt was converted into zero coupon perpetuals all would be well?

Or maybe they were just referring to Deutsche Bank. As for the Greek population, where everyone is simply doing what they can to survive, which certainly does not mean paying taxes to the government, it is every man, woman and child for themselves.

Finally, one can only hope that the US will learn something from what this terminal collapse of a socialist utopia looks like. Sadly, it won't.

 


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Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:12 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Meanwhile... In the black market...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:15 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Looking for some .223 ammo? I can set you up!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:17 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I'm in the 'primer' category...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:19 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

That's some serious stuff you're talking there Amigo.....I'll see what I can do.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:25 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Frankly ~ I'm kind of on hold at the moment... I really think all this recent hype is going to blow over... [Hope so ~ at least]... But to me, running around like a chicken with your head cut off is like chasing a market TOP... When shit gets like that, I'd prefer to stand back [or look for ideas that nobody else thought of]...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:39 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I agree.  A former colleague is working at a gun shop and the majority of his AR sales have been to first time gun owners who "wanted to get one before they are no longer available".

These idiots will never fire the thing and then sell it for a major loss when they figure that out.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:43 | Link to Comment trav777
trav777's picture

nations full of lazy tax dodgers shouldn't have big socialist governments

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:45 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

No that is EXACTLY how they think.....someone else should pay...not me....

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:21 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

@LOP [above]

~~~

Exactly ~ My thinking is twofold

- S[actually does]HTF ~ There will be plenty of shit lying around [for free] from dead people who didn't know what TF they were doing...

- Otherwise ~ 'go back to basics' & figure out what you need to manufacture the stuff yourself... Set yourself up with raw materials & components...  

~~~

It's the same as with everything else...

Hang around the dumpster bin of any big box retailer, or Home Depot & you can scrounge yourself up just about anything you need to build anything...

Dipshits ~ I was driving y a HomeDepot awhile back after a snowstorm & saw people walking out with 40 pound bags of 'de-icer' which they were paying $10 a bag for... In the corner of this same ginormous parking lot was a pile of salt... So I walk in & buy 2.5 gallon paint buckets for $2.60 a piece, walk out, & scoop myself up 80 pounds of salt... Take it home, dump it in a container & now I have still have two extra paint buckets...

I should just rinse them off & return them, but they're always handy...

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:52 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

Laffer Curve.  Any tax rate above 25% will have negative returns.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:58 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

It is much, much simpler than that as that which does not exist, cannot be "collected".

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Yes, but those 40 pound bags had a beautiful logo on the side.  The art on the bag, alone, had to be worth $7.40 to the sheeple.

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Fuck man ~ It gets worse... I happened to catch a small segment of the ESPN show "OTL" [Outside the Lines"]... The subject was on "knock off replica merchandise"...

They were interviewing this guy who hadno problems buying Chinese knock-offs of 49ers jerseys for $30 [which were almost 100% identical to "official NFL merchandise"] & wereby the same thing costs $200...

So at one point they cut to some twit spokesperson for the NFL to ask her about the situation...

Sternly ~ she starts off by saying "Well, first of all, it HURTS THE ECONOMY"!...

I almost had an anuerysm... No bitch!... It hurts the NFL... Yeah ~ so I save $170 [to presumably spend elsewhere, in many diffrent places] & I'm hurting the economy... Not to mention the fact that whatever the hell you buy, it's all being manufactured from slaves in China...

Reminded me of that "but gold isn't backed by anything" reporter...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 12:27 | Link to Comment NooooB
NooooB's picture

I logged in just to tell you that you are my new hero... That is all...

 

As a token of my esteem I will introduce you to an hilarious New England-ism. The term for the 2.5gal bucket is "smaller 5gal bucket"... You are welcome.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 12:43 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I don't know how that "." go in there... What I meant to type was (2) "5" gallon buckets... [which you can just about do anything with, from shovel, to measure, to mix soap in, to collect rainwater, to seal dry goods in, to fill with soil & grow food (just drill a couple of holes about an inch or two from the bottom for drainage)]... They'll even hold your nickle collection...

Just try not to get any of the above mixed up...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:44 | Link to Comment Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

If the elected are hiding their money to avoid taxes in swiss accounts, why on earth should ordinary citizens who have much less pay?

Same goes in the US, Turbo Timmay dodges so why shouldn't everybody

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:58 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Hey, who broke my social contract?

What, it was just a non-functional display copy?

Every man for himself!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:45 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Indeed, unfortunately both the lazy tax dodgers and fascist governments need to be taken the fuck out.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:46 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Damn.....that's almost genius there.

 

Mind if I bring that up at the next PTA meeting?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Taffy Lewis
Taffy Lewis's picture

trav777, but the IRS will be much more efficient at sniffing out the Obamacare scofflaws.

I see many new reality TV series starring the IRS - replete with camera-toting mini-drones - for years to come.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The argument about who should pay what in taxes and who should be called a "tax dodger" is, by its very nature, flawed by the belief that a centralized government having more money is a good thing.  

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

A relative of mine who lives in Andy Kuomo's People's Republic of New York says rifle ammo is starting to be seen on the shelves again, but trickling in very limited quantities/calibers.  Most retailers have imposed individual buying limits of 2-9 boxes/day (depending on store).  Internet ammo to PRNY is now prohibited. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:37 | Link to Comment TerminalDebt
TerminalDebt's picture

100 shells per box?

Thats 200-900 a day, should have enough in 2 weeks of buying :)

 

The police takes around 100 shots per victim, I'm not that well trained, figure I need 200 shots per looter.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:44 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

I shouldv'e been clearer... 20 rd boxes, so like 60 rds/day.  And your aim is better than mine :)

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

So let's see....you're one of the few remaining Greeks who pays their taxes and your rate goes up 16%.   What to do....

Aristotle shrugged?

 

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:36 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Road trip!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:40 | Link to Comment ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

So a carload of cigaretts, .223 and 7.62 should make for quite a profit eh?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:52 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

They should send in more German tax collectors.  Snark

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:13 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

This truth will be lost on the world's masters.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:15 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Screw your Laffer curve.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:27 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

???  Wouldn't this suggest the Laffer curve is valid?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Yes.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:36 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Thanks Gold.  Everything I learned about the Laffer curve I learned in Ferris Beuller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPVyieptwA

BTW - cameo with Ben Stein: everyone's favorite pre-subprime mortgage denier.  I remeber a long pre-2008 article by Stein (with real math) about how even if the bottom dropped out, the effects on our economy would be neglegible.

Anyone?  Anyone?   

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:16 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

The Laffer Curve- brought to you by...

"A tax increasing in a percentage ratio to capital will give a much larger revenue than the present individual or property tax, which is useful to us now for the sole reason that it excites trouble and discontent among the goyim."

-Protocol #20

"Although economist Arthur Laffer,[3] does not claim to have invented the Laffer curve concept (Laffer, 2004), it was popularized with policy-makers following an afternoon meeting with Nixon/Ford Administration officials Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld in 1974 in which he reportedly sketched the curve on a napkin to illustrate his argument.[4]"

"The term "Laffer curve" was coined by Jude Wanniski who was also present. The basic concept was not new; Laffer himself says he learned it from Ibn Khaldun and John Maynard Keynes.[5]"

-Wikipedia

So, if tax revenues approach zero at both 0% rates and 100% rates, what if it is not only the rates which are variable, but the incomes?  I mean, if  I am not making any money, then tax rates aren't going to be 35% for me any more, and revenues are going to approach zero.

Oh, Dick and Don, you thought you were soooo fucking smart...

Time to dust off the flat tax again, but it will piss off the proles.


Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:46 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

correlation vs. causation. It's a reasonable observation given a certain set of circumstances. Like most economic theories, way too many variables to draw concrete conclusions, I think.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:28 | Link to Comment schatzi
schatzi's picture

It's not even the Laffer curve that's relevant. Changing tax rates means fuck-all if you don't have people efficiently collecting and enforcing.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:32 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Dressed in camo......for full effectiveness.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:35 | Link to Comment moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

Let's keep it that way :)

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:18 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Hence, gun confiscation, microchipping, drones, and DHS civilian security force.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:34 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Dear Leader keeps telling us that more taxes are healthy for the US economy. Dear Leader keeps telling us that more redistributionist spending is good for the US economy. Dear Leader keeps telling us that more federal debt is good for the US economy.

I don't believe a damned thing Dear Leader says.

I just keep buying food and ammo.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:37 | Link to Comment moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

Hey! Wait a second once the wealth is redistributed there will a lot more money spent in strip joints, cruises, drug bars, etc. What's the problem?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

"I just keep buying food and ammo"

And now you're on a government watch list (me too).

I often wonder how much of a bribe it would take Tyler to give up my email address to the Feds.  With the pop-ups I see, probably not much.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:22 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Don't give out your real name on such online public forums.

Maintain multiple e-mail addresses, and only offer up one to any moderator that you can afford to delete if needed.

Use Tor.

Trust no one.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

I'm pretty sure I've been on a government watch list since the early 90s when I was a Second Amendment activist.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:44 | Link to Comment John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Me too.  I became a life member of the NRA in the early 90s.  BTW, is that a drone buzzing outside my window???

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:10 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

And pay cash or convert to bitcoin.  If I knew how to hand-load .223 and set up a business that accepts bitcoin I'd be rolling.

Unfortunately, I don't believe in firearms nor cryptocurrency.  Forward!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:21 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

I have at least fifteen fake email accts, but due to GMO's, EMF's, crypto-estrogens, pesticide residues, and a youthful habit of recreational drug use, I can't remember any of them.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:48 | Link to Comment unplugged
unplugged's picture

get silver too - 90% coins

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Got some 90% silver, too. PMs have value if things don't completely collapse, and some level of civility remains.

I just don't believe the collapse is going to be orderly or civilized. When the EBT cards and Obamaphones stop working, all hell is going to break out - the parasites are going to become dangerously predatory.

And no, I'm not really prepared for that environment. (And, I really hope I'm wrong.)

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:26 | Link to Comment BeansBulletsBandaids
BeansBulletsBandaids's picture

Don't forget a source of potable water or a way to filter non-potable water.

I think a lot of folks (not specifically directed at you, BA) forget the water. Food, ammo and silver are important - but if you run out of water in a few days it could be all for naught. I like to go with a rule of thumb of 3 gal per person per day. So a family of 4(with 2 small kids) I like to say 10 gal/day for ever how long you think the brown stuff will stay in the fan...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Relating to water, many people fail to consider the water and energy requirements of preparing their stored food. Basic staples (beans, wheat) require significant cooking, which involves extra water and lots of energy, before being eaten.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:25 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Double post.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:14 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

Greece, STOP paying the banksters their blood money and then you will be much better off

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:15 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The people can't feed themselves and they are expected to pay taxes? Yeah right.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment Whiteshadowmovement
Whiteshadowmovement's picture

Isnt it funny that the world still goes through this whole charade of taxation? I struggle to think of a single country that could keep the lights on through taxation alone...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There is no way that any country could survive on taxation alone when you have the free shit brigade to contend with. It might been a different story if we had a simpler tax code, and got rid of the corporate welfare but that will never happen.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:18 | Link to Comment sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

Taxation, not full faith, is what gives fiat currency a percieved (albeit temporary) value.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:24 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Control must be maintained. Look at North Korea. How do you think their tax revenues have been since 1992? But who cares? The people are all slaves, and cannibalize their own children. North Korea- dystopia now, and coming soon to Obamaland.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Phroneo
Phroneo's picture

And yet Greeks would still probably vote to stay in the Euro. I feel for their suffering but if they were smart, all they would need to do is storm their parliament and drag their leaders out before ripping up these debt contracts. However, they don't. I just don't if I should feel sorry for them or not when i consider this. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment hapless
hapless's picture

"before ripping up these debt contracts"

I dunno.  Creditors usually keep a copy for themselves - at least the smart ones.....Oh.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:32 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

Of course they will vote to stay with the Euro, who do you think is footing this bill?

My understanding is that the Greeks made a game of NOT paying taxes, even before the SHTF. I'm guessing a lot of them are boning up on Tax Evasion for Dummies as I type this.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:36 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

They are a "kept" people.

You do not bite the hand that feeds you, even when that hand feeds you less and less.

They have been captured in the paridigm of "the govt is here to take care of me"

When the cost benefit ratio has tipped.

They will be taken care of.

A final solution, so to speak.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:45 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

TPTB:Fake News Media: "all greeks have converted to muslim terrorism. Drone bombing will commence shortly."

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:18 | Link to Comment piliage
piliage's picture

So, how exactly will that EU solidarity look through the lens of a coup in Greece? I'll go pop some more corn and watch the show...

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:19 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

a loss of 775 million euros, or $1.05 billion in one month

Ben is printing $85 billion a month.  Surely, he can spare $1.05 billion a month.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:43 | Link to Comment MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Ben is printing $85 billion a month....

$85 billion a month directly, or perhaps slightly indirectly into the banksters wallets.

0$ a month to those truly in need.

The Federal Reserve Act is on point. You gotta problem wit dat? We gotta drone waiting for you, terrorist.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:46 | Link to Comment Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Ben prints for Obama's GLOBAL OUTREACH...no parochial limitatons for His Global Eliteness!

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-02/how-feds-latest-qe-just-another-european-bailout-vehicle

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:19 | Link to Comment RealFinney
RealFinney's picture

March 2013, Troika meetings with the Greek finance ministry breakdown after the agenda is hijacked by a side discussion into wether the Troika Inspectors know of any cash plastering or electrical work.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:21 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Greece needs to hire some Iceland advisors and shove s huge fucking fuck you lead pipe up the ass of the banks.

Fuck you TBTF assholes. Eat fucking shit.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:35 | Link to Comment Cypher_73
Cypher_73's picture

Now wouldn't *that* be something 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:40 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Looks like someone is betting on it.

A MASSIVE Bearish Bet Against Banks Has Traders Buzzing

http://www.businessinsider.com/massive-options-bet-against-bank-etf-2013-2#ixzz2KDjHMRgG

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:21 | Link to Comment j0nx
j0nx's picture

Simple Laffer theory. When will politicians learn.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:25 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

No worries.....Hank's got this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNZczIgVXjg

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:40 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

LOL.  Hank may not have a high intellectual IQ, but I'm sure his other IQs are quite high.  And his handler's IQ is probably pretty high.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:36 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

nah... economic collapse caused by debt saturation doesn't have much to do with Laffer. People should not take their eyes off of the root cause and muddy the waters with meaningless theories.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

A major misconception(and a fault in the Laffer curve theory) is that the State(aka. Politicians) always prefer to maximize tax income vs tax rates, thus adhering to the Laffer curve.

This is not true in the real world, the State(aka. Politicians) always try to maximize their power not their income thus they don't care at all about the Laffer curve. Simply said they will prefer a bigger piece of a smaller pie, than a smaller piece of a bigger pie even if that means nominally smaller revenues.

Instead of trying to adjust taxes to maximize state profits they adjust taxes to find the breaking point of the economy, as we can see many European states are near or even over that breaking point.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

It is all downhill from here as the feedback loop of more spending cuts is activated to offset declining revenues, leading to even less revenue,...

I don't know about that. This implies that government spending begets GDP at a greater rate than would otherwise be the case if the money to fund that government spending stayed in the private sector.

The only ways to resolve this insolvency at this point are  bankruptcy followed by government restructuring or the wholesale seizure (more forcefully than mere taxation) of private wealth by the government.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:23 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You cannot steal what doesn't exist.  I'll only add that it is possible steal physical assets and remove people by force.

Well, so long as they are not well organized or well armed.  Be sure to turn in those guns America.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:31 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

At work, people will ask for product that I do not have....at which point I state, "I cannot give you what I don't got."

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

And how many of those ppl will simply reply "Well than get it, duh!" ?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:07 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

it's funny you say that....Everyone thinks that the world just functions like fucking google....CLICK>HAVE>CLICK>HAVE.

Nope....the physical world does not work like the internet. 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:28 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Right on, LOP.

When incomes cease to exist, they steal your guns.

When you are unarmed, they steal your houses and lands.

When you are dispossessed and living in a feeding center, they steal your physical liberty.

When you have no liberty of movement, they steal your right to time, and use whips to make you labor at their bidding.

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:27 | Link to Comment Sixdeuce062
Sixdeuce062's picture

shhh this is not country that is failing. the government has nothing to do with the people suffering. you can go and look at cat pictures now.   - trokia

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:30 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

I wonder if obama got up this morning and read this....and a look of suprise might have come across his face...as he sees in real life that raising taxes does not always mean more revenue......he will find out soon enough....watch teh CBO rejigger their numbers.....now you will have to look on page 2,015 of the NYTimes...but it will be there...in small print under the hooker ads.....

Laffer curve squared

going Galt

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:40 | Link to Comment lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I think two days ago, he was demanding more tax hikes.

Forward, Soviet!

Whoever is behind this man of mystery wants the US to collapse. A police state to enforce their new one-world ducat and have us work for food and some concrete hole for living quarters.

.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:32 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

I am pretty sure someone just stole the money.  This the West, remember.  As corrupt and rotting as any Socialist enterprise.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:34 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

I wonder how many new people have greek Diplomatic passports now...I bet quite a few new ones have been issued....and some very big and strong briefcases

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:36 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

What's the over/under on NATO forces being used to quell uprisings resulting from a coup in Greece? Hell, it's just a short trip across the Mediterranean from Libya, Mali.......

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

$97.07 - the current price of a barrel of oil

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:41 | Link to Comment unplugged
unplugged's picture

Classic Death Spiral - the end game to be repeated in all countries who's debt is TBTPB (too-big-to-pay-back)

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:43 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

SCOTTY!!! INCREASE TAXES TO 100%!! GIVE IT ALL IT'S GOT!!!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:53 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I canno do it Captain! I dunna have Ben's printerrr!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

RELAY ALL ENERGY FROM THE LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEMS TO THE ENGINES!!!

AND TELL EVERYBODY TO HOLD THEIR BREATH!!!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:44 | Link to Comment Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I keep posting this, and I keep getting red arrows for it .... Scheiß egal. 

 

I, as long as everyone else should have absolutely zero sympathy for the Greeks.  They vote over and over again to stay in the Euro, which is exactly what is killing their economy and destroying their standard of living.  Until they start to vote en masse to ditch the Euro, and their votes are in turn suppressed I have no sympathy for them what-so-ever and neither should anyone of you. 

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment nicxios
nicxios's picture

Yeah, like the drachma will make a big difference, especially as the currency wars heat up.

Sure, dump the Euro and have all the rest of the Europeans pissed at you as well as the U.S.A., not to mention the evil banksters who run the global show. The media will get their marching orders and scapegoat Greece as the cause of financial calamity. All that, while having to contend with an historical and dangerous enemy/neighbor in Turkey.  The banksters won't have to sic the U.S. military on tiny Greece to teach them a lesson: Turkey will be happy to do the job, with gleeful malice. They'll carve up Greece with the phony Macedonian Skopje along with Albania and Bulgaria taking a piece of the action. Hey, as a bonus maybe they'll bring back the system of jannisaries and demand only the non-raped Christian virgins convert to Islam.

Greece is stuck between a rock and hard place.

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:46 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 What is described abjectly as

"culminating in collapse" by most,

may instead be regarded by a few

as a desired transition to absentee ownership and debt peonage.

The financial titans may now profitably privatize what was public, make splendid acquisitions at fire sale prices, pay rock bottom wages, and have government act as their endless debt collector for their otherwise worthless loans and scams.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:48 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

correct, and nothing will change until the heads of those few roll (if they ever do).

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:55 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

^^^ this. People need to get off the laffer curve BS. The laffer curve is a political too used to obfuscate. You could tax people nothing, and if you monetary system is based on the creation of debt money with interest attached, you will end up with collapse.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:33 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

If your monetary system is based on the creation of debt money with interest attached, you will end up with collapse.

There, fixed it for you.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

The mistake is being repeated here of giving credence to ANY numbers being disseminated by Greek "authorities".

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:01 | Link to Comment MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Greek "authorities" are pretty much on par with the BLS in my book...we're all Greek now.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:49 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

This episode points out the value of a democracy with voluntary cooperation.  If the sheeple believe in the system, they'll pay up with little effort by the government.  How effective would tax collection be if armed, foreign officials were introduced into the environment?

You can talk about the army going around seizing assets and human rights, but that is simply killing the golden goose.

Time to face the basic fact that any loanshark knows: you can't "juice" a "mark", if you kill him.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 09:54 | Link to Comment flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Zero taxes on zero wages?

Why that is just silly. Of course they have lower tax revenues!

The solution is at once simple and elegant - it will become the Patriotic duty of all Greeks (and their legal obligation with new laws) that Greeks must pay taxes every year in the sum equal to the highest tax they paid in the previous ten years, whether or not they are employed.

This will work as a wonderful motivation for lazy Greeks to go out and look for a job, and at the same time works very well for Greek Bankers and Politicians who through careful effort, skill and sacrifice avoided paying any taxes in the previous ten years!

Solves many problems at once!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:08 | Link to Comment Montezuma
Montezuma's picture

Austerity works right? Even if you hate Krugman you guys need to give him this (which you wont, too busy trying to find Greece from the map while shining your new patch of hollow-points).

 

Lets face it, Greece had no place in eurozone, its a backwards country reliant of tourism and they never have paid their debts. Usually when beer turns to wine (or uzo) things get more and more fucked up. 

But what has EU learned about the whole debacle? Own currency is needed for countries that cant compete? EU doesnt work? Austerity in recession doesnt work (Ireland, Spain, UK, Greece etc...)?

Well I according to my buddy who have the "pleasure" of working in this unholy bureaucracy tells me that the MEPs think there is too little EU and it needs it own taxes...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Read an article in the SF Chronical last week that quoted a wealthy man of about 70 in a follow-up to something done during the election where they raised CA  income tax.  He said yes, he had done exactly what he said he was going to do:  close his private equity firm, reduce his income and travel.  For him 50% combined income tax was the tipping point.  The loss of course is not just the tax from his income but the new jobs his firm was venture funding.  Many others will simply leave the state.  Hell if you like CA, establish your residence elsewhere and have extended visits.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:59 | Link to Comment HeatMiser
HeatMiser's picture

17 Corparations are leaving Calitaxication everyday.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:23 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Campell's Soup was a staple of the Sacramento economy for decades.  It recently closed down.  When the local news guy asked one of the state legislators why he thought the soup company shut down, his reason was that people don't really eat canned soup anymore.  

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment DR
DR's picture

He is a poor business man to have his PE firm listed in California-next door Nevada would have been a better choice for incorporation.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:37 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

What's all this then?

Russian fighter jets 'breach Japan airspace'

Two Russian fighter jets have violated Japanese airspace, prompting Tokyo to scramble its own aircraft, reports say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21364559#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_sour...

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:37 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

It's this:

Don't own a small island country with no energy resources, an aging population, an export driven economy, 300% percent debt to GDP, too many dollars, and no room to inflate.

If you own that sort of country, you'll be everyone's bitch.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:45 | Link to Comment devo
devo's picture

From Plato to...this.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:55 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Plato has been said to be the first of the planners and founders of Socialism.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:09 | Link to Comment devo
devo's picture

No accident, comrade.

Going for the "I sound disgusted"/"what do you expect from a central planner" all in four words.

#Epic fail

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:51 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

The politicians haven't a clue what they are doing here.  They are just egomaniacs.  Wannabe elites.

The ones really in charge of what is going on are not stupid.  This is all on purpose.  A middle class beat down of epic proportions.  And YES, it will come here.  Everyone will be shaking their heads wondering why we repeat the same mistakes over and over.  The reason, quite simply, is that they are NOT mistakes.  They are part of a bigger program being played out.  It is that damn simple.  There is no other plausible explanation.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:53 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

When will the political opposition to Obama take a stand? The door is wide f'ing open.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:57 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

I don't see any real opposition.  Only controlled opposition and lots of useful idiots.  It all looks like a well choreographed dance to me.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

The majority of these guys have no new ideas and are void of a game plan to oppose Obama. No one seems to having the guiding principals of fiscal conservatives needed and/or are afraid to step into the limelight and take on the slave master.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Is scary.  The lack of all of this is really tell tale.  Just like the lack of prosectution of those who perpetrated financial crimes.  It's a free-for-all now.  Shit is accelerating and every effort is being made to cleverly obscure and delay the impact.  My fear is that in doing so, it will all hit at once without any appreciable warning.  Just "WHAM" and the lights go out... proverbially (and maybe for real).

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Taffy Lewis
Taffy Lewis's picture

Everybodys All, it's over in the U.S.

No politician will dare to go up against any supporter of the FSB (Free Shit Brigade).

You are making a strategic mistake if you think there will be a turnaround.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 10:53 | Link to Comment orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

I don't have Barry's email address.  Could someone forward this article to him?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:40 | Link to Comment mess nonster
Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:05 | Link to Comment dmger14
dmger14's picture

As it should be, right?  Ideally, the malinvestment and socialism get purged at the same time.  I wouldn't hold my breath on the latter.  Idiocy is permanent!

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:07 | Link to Comment hairball48
hairball48's picture

I'm still long Greek donkey carts...maybe I'll  go long on the donkeys too.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:24 | Link to Comment Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

Maybe Greek tax revs will go to zero soon.... and the EU can just give each citizen a stipend for life

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:29 | Link to Comment epwpixieq-1
epwpixieq-1's picture

Let made some analysis on the tax revenue from consumption. One thing that some people do not realize reading though all this info, is that the Greek people have alternative(s). They can slow their consumption, produce most of whatever they need on their own, or as most of northern Greeks do, go on shopping in the southern parts of their EU, comparatively, inconceivably less leveraged, neighbor Bulgaria. This is what happens when you have an over-leveraged ( over debt-ed ) system, where the people have REAL choices to paying more taxes on the consumption, whatever they may be. In this case slowing their consumption or directing their consumption to the neighboring a lot less taxed state.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:50 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Or, you just buy stuff under the table for cash or barter. That's what VAT does best- create a black market.

If black market prices must be higher in nomlnal terms (ie, compared to base prices in legitimate markets, minus VAT), they must also be cheaper than prices including VAT, or the black market can't exist.

If one adds in the advantage of a black market in that cash transactions are also untaxable re. incomes derived, then black markets benefit everyone. The buyer gets goods priced at least somewhat cheaper than price+VAT in the stores, and the seller, since she doesn't have to pay income tax on her gains, can sell at only a slight markup over the legitiamte base price.

Losers- government and banks.

Solution: Outlaw cash, solution coming soon, after gun confiscation and national biometric ID.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

"... and culminating in the complete collapse of Greek society."

Right, I get it. We must tie collapse of government (due to inability to finance its operations) to collapse of society. It's all perfectly clear now: society cannot exist without government.

Thanks for the tip.

 

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

When over half of the people eat from the Govt. handouts, I'd say THAT society cannot exist without Govt.

Which pretty much means all of them except for countries who Govt.s don't feed anyone in the first place.  Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Somalia and the like.

The New Normal.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

In some science class we had this dish with bacteria in it. For a few days we kept putting some sugar solution in it. The bacteria kept growing and expanding. Finally we got tired of feeding it. All the bacteria died.

I'm still around though.

Aside: Personally I'd willingly let all the sponges whose life depends on government gifts to die, if that means I get to live free!

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