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Guest Post: Is The NDAA Lawsuit Headed To The Supreme Court?

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

The NDAA lawsuit is one of the key topics we have written about over the past year or so.  For those of you that aren’t up to speed, one of the most popular posts we ever wrote was NDAA: The Most Important Lawsuit in American History that No One is Talking About.  Basically, Section 1021 of the NDAA allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens without charges or a trial.  Journalist Chris Hedges and several others sued Obama on the grounds of it being unconstitutional.  Judge Katherine Forrest agreed and issued an injunction on it.  This was immediately appealed by the Obama Administration to a higher court, which promptly issued a temporary stay on the injunction.

Yesterday, oral arguments began in front of this aforementioned higher court; the 2nd Circuit.  As Chris Hedges states in the interview below, if they win the case then it will likely be brought in front of the Supreme Court within weeks.  On the other hand, if the Obama Administration wins and the Supreme Court refuses to hear the appeal, Hedges states: “at that point we’ve just become a military dictatorship.”

To get a full update on the progress of the NDAA lawsuit make sure to watch this video.


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Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:33 | 3228258 Demologos
Demologos's picture

They will like it!

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:54 | 3228267 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

that "war on terror" really does bring out the best in us

it was carefully chosen - no boundaries, no timelimits, no clear enemy - secret by definition 

don't hold your breath

SCOTUS has already dismissed cases where we tortured innocent guys

State Secrets and all

Then there's those crazy corporate citizens

What more evidence do you need

This place is pretty much gone

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:13 | 3228606 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

it was carefully chosen - no boundaries, no timelimits, no clear enemy - secret by definition

You are SO right. Some blown up buildings and dead folks, then it's "murder for free" forever.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:48 | 3228707 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

that's the problem with the War on Terror, it drones on and on. It mutilates children. It puts up a million cameras but takes them down just as fast when there's something to hide. It calls an invasion democracy, torture an investigation, self destruction a future. And best of all, it's always worse than we know. All in the name of your safety, your liberty. Welcome to the darkest side of human nature  

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 04:19 | 3228333 cossack55
cossack55's picture

But don't you see? All the male MSM's want to be like ole Joey Goebbels, getting to lay all the movie stars. All the female MSM's want to be Leni Reifenstahl and make wonderful documentaries showing how loyal to the state they are.  Pretty sickening group of supposed humans.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:25 | 3227840 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I, for one, would like to be the first to say "All hail Emperor O'bomb-a!"

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:25 | 3227841 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Too little, and much too late.  We're already a dictatorship.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:02 | 3228064 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

The opportunity to attempt to salvage or let it go permanently south comes but once in many centuries.

No, we're not a dictatorship.

We're a flailing mess, ripe for the picking.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:59 | 3228507 kill switch
kill switch's picture

 What Stewart Rhodes and other believe will happen if the guns are banned....

While gun grabbers hoped the U.S. military would agree to fire upon American citizens who refused to turn in their guns, what really happened is that huge numbers of active duty soldiers announced they would never participate in military action against their own countrymen. In fact, inside the military there is rising talk of shooting commanding officers in the head if they order troops to fire on American citizens over gun rights issues.

• While the gun grabbers hoped to demonize gun owners and "shame" them into somehow feeling guilty about Sandy Hook, what actually happened is that gun owners found new courage and American pride, and they have loudly voiced their intention to wage a war of resistance against any government that attempts to take their guns.

• In New York state, where Mayor Cuomo managed to quickly shove through an illegal, unconstitutional gun control law, there is now open talk of armed resistance against the state government. Elsewhere, there is even talk that U.S. Senators who vote for gun control may see their own staffers and families targeted for assassination. As Stewart Rhodes said on InfoWars Nightly News on December 31st, 2012:

"They will be targeted. I think that if they pass this bill, legislators who vote for it will be assassinated... they're going to be military targets, too, and they're going to be killed. They think they're immune, but they're not. They cannot walk around with enough security to keep from being shot by a sniper." - Stewart Rhodes,

(For the record, Stewart Rhodes is not calling for this action. He is merely stating the obvious: that this is likely to take place if gun confiscation comes up for a vote in the U.S. Senate.)

It's not just Stewart Rhodes saying this, either. Robbie Cooper from says much the same thing:

"We all quickly agreed a violent revolution and rebellion would occur almost immediately [following a federal gun ban]. Most, if not all, members of Congress who voted for the ban / confiscation would be assassinated. And the very first prey that would find themselves in the scopes of the rebels would be the members of Congress who passed this ban and the members of the media who have been their willing mouthpieces and agents of propaganda."

Bob Owens from paints a similar picture:

"The 535 members of the House and Senate in both parties that allowed such a law to pass would largely be on their own; the Secret Service is too small to protect all of them and their families, the Capitol Police too unskilled, and competent private security not particularly interested in working against their own best interests at any price. The elites will be steadily whittled down, and if they cannot be reached directly, the targets will become their staffers, spouses, children, and grandchildren. Grandstanding media figures loyal to the regime would die in droves, executed as enemies of the Republic."

For the record once again, these people are not calling for such actions, they are merely predicting what is likely to take place.

Learn more:

As DaveyJones said this place is already gone

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:12 | 3228540 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Everybody is afraid to up or down you. LOL

I was in the Army.

We always said we would not fire on Americans. Back in 1972. Back in 2003.

A soldier does not have to follow an illegal order, esp. when life is at risk.

That is the regulation.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:18 | 3228615 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Everybody is afraid to up or down you. LOL

Yes, the chilling effect!! I guess we are fucked, 1st amendment my ass....

Molon Labe,

Shit there’s a black SUV out front.


Kill Switch signing off!!

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 13:27 | 3228713 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Gun Control for Dummies...and the THIRD Amendment

 SUV false alarm, it was Corzine looking for the 1.6


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 15:47 | 3229061 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***We're already a dictatorship.***


Actually we're not quit there yet. The Supreme Court could stop NDAA in its tracks. We are all relying on the Court: Alito, Roberts,Thomas, Scalia... Oh God we're screwed!

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 17:37 | 3229295 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

After Citizens United & the ACA being a tax?

We're fucked 9 ways to Sunday. We're going to see things most of us have never witnessed before & my gut says it's going to be ugly.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:28 | 3227848 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Last peaceful "Due Process" chance at change.


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:55 | 3227918 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Ballot Box?


Jury Box?


Cartridge Box?

On back-order....

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:39 | 3228013 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Laws and courts were never set up to benefit the slaves.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:32 | 3228688 kill switch
kill switch's picture

We have a legal system, not a justice system..

Corrections Corp of Amerika 90% occupancy rate demanded,,Judges can buy stock...

What a lovely combination.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:31 | 3227999 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

The Supreme Court is in Bamo's back pocket.....didn't the Roberts vote in the Unafordable Health Care ruling illustrate the point?

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:55 | 3228269 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you mean the tax?

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:10 | 3228468 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Whatever became of the Anonymous documents that were supposed to enlighten us about the courts? Those bastards are flaming pussies.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:34 | 3227850 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

USA Land, uber alles.......



"Fire up the Spitfires chaps, it's bally well happened again." :P

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:46 | 3228637 Atomizer
Sat, 02/09/2013 - 23:16 | 3229793 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

touche :)

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:29 | 3227852 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Last peaceful "Due Process" chance at change.


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:32 | 3227854 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Courts, CONgress, White House..... it doesn't matter. They'll get what they want. Absolutely none of it will benefit the American people. Keep whittling away at the tree, soon it's a dead stump. We're just about there now. We can recover if WE want it. Our roots are strong and there IS an awakening going on. (Thanks to ZH and others)

If these pukes keep pushing.... the snap back is going to be hell.

Keep pushing mother fuckers...... I'm very much looking forward to that snap!

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:08 | 3228599 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



They want the snap.....but I don't think they're going to get the snap they expected.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:10 | 3228600 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Crap....the dreaded double post. Please just play through.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 15:18 | 3230982 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Quit toying with my sense of deja vu.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:32 | 3227855 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

Does anyone think that obunghole would have agreed with NDAA when he was "teaching" constitutional law at university?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:29 | 3227994 Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

You've got to say the right things in order to achieve dictatorial power. I mean, c'mon! You can't make it obvious what you're after from the get go.

Everything all proceeding according to schedule...

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:16 | 3228476 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

NDAA could result in the snatching of potential leaders who present an opposing view.  Kidnapping, a political prison, we'd never know because he'd just disappear never to be seen again.  The abuse that could result from this is easy to imagine.  This is a coupe.  if you are not frightened, you should be if you live in America.  The terror alert warning is turned off, or at least paused.  This is being done in prepration for an implication of a govt which will not want taken down and one which they know will not be welcome.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:38 | 3227870 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Like that you featured this  -all I've read and seen of this person - smart and ethical.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:37 | 3227871 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Time is moving forward. This can't be happening man. This can't be real.

Hope they go after fat people first.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:41 | 3227886 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Lots of fat and juicy targets for hellfire missiles fired from drones overhead protecting us from domestic terrorists.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:06 | 3227943 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

"...and can I have extra mayo with that?....."  BOOM!

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:36 | 3228010 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Wouldn't be much of a chase unless the fatties couch somehow started rolling down a hill.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:38 | 3227874 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Well, if they can't indefinitely detain us they'll have to play hardball and drone us from 30 thousand feet.......

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:39 | 3227880 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

It's all theater.  Remember the Supreme Court consists of Presidential appointees who are confirmed by Congress.

Checks and balances?  Har har har.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:58 | 3228272 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

checks and money orders

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:30 | 3228627 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Don't forget the junkets.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 15:23 | 3230987 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Don't laugh.  The last check is the barrel of a gun, and it isn't pretty.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:45 | 3227892 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

The news announcer/interviewer has my deep respect for knowing how to keep both her mouth and her ego in check, and let the man speak. Could all those assholes at CNBC take notes, and a lesson on manners, please?



Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:01 | 3227932 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Like Piece of Shit Morgan?......I hate that fucker. I'd really like to give him a wedgie.....

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:34 | 3228005 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Don't forget to drop a few razor blades down the back of his shorts before you hook the waistband of his Fruit of the Looms to the bucket of a backhoe. That's the ultimate "Atomic Wedgie"!

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:01 | 3228232 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

re morgan

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 21:52 | 3227908 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I attended a seminar from a "constitutional" lawyer at my university. He took questions and I asked about his thoughts on NDAA. He pretty much shut me down and said he had never heard of it and immediately took another question. Knowing what i know now and as confident of what I am trying to become, I would have pushed it...That moment made me understand that there are forces that are working diligently to fundamentally change this country. I am honestly thinking of picking up my marbles and just simply leaving this playground as i am frightened for what we may become and the absolute complicity of the media, law makers and dumbed down public. 

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:00 | 3227927 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Yaknow, I find myself thinkin' the same thing; just pack it up and leave this hole while it's still possible. But where the hell would I go? At least on paper, we still have more freedoms than most any country on earth, with the exception of the lawless third world shitholes. I'd look into one of those if I were a man of means, but I'm not. I'm afraid the only choice we freedom craving schmucks of ordinary means have left is to stand up and fight (literally) or get on the train to the re-education camp.

I'm gonna go clean my rifle now, and read a few technical manuals.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:12 | 3228469 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Please do not leave. We need smart people who can drill a dime at 100 yards.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 20:55 | 3229629 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I don't know about drilling a dime at 100, but I damn sure can make a headshot at 100 yards, with iron sights, and do it PDQ.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:01 | 3227931 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

The system is designed to hammer any nails that stand up.  It does not surprise me that our higher education institutions do not want to stand up.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:27 | 3227990 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Certainly not until they can at least come up with a new name for it:

Neo-corporatism? Ziofascism? iNazism? Obamotribadism? 


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:23 | 3227980 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

I would have calmly got up and walked towards the scum bag lawyer and started beating him to within an inch of his life. If he was still semi lucid I would tell him that is the definition of my NDAA.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:31 | 3227998 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I prefer to remain here and be a thorn in their side (or worse) until I die.

Then its the indebted kiddies problem...they'll figure it out too ;-)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 02:03 | 3228275 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

feel the same. I hate letting the bad guys win. Owe it to my kids. And yours. We let this happen. Let it go too far. We owe it to them to get it back. This is a bluff game. It always has been. That's how criminals work.   

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 07:35 | 3228400 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

same.   we owe it to the kids to wipe the board so that they have a choice to play a new game not designed by, of and for sociopaths.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:32 | 3228564 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

one nation, under socioipaths, with genetically modified liberty and Ipads for all

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:16 | 3228662 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Right nmewn ! Ask people that were born and raised behind the iron curtain about their childhood. Their dictator parents weren`t too benevolent to start with and had a lot of disincentives to protect their families with kin liability up and running. All children belong to the state and let's sacrifice those that don`t fit in !

Guess what ? Grandmas and Greataunties (sorry no elder males ,all got killed ) told kids before they could listen who the real enemy is, was and supposed to be , the theories they had not figured out in a lifetime but knew everything they were ever told was somehow fundamentally wrong.

Those happy children without hunger without surplus food (lined up 5 times a week at all the butchers in town to
have a choice at weeks end) rose up to become the very self
righteous little assholes defying communism, the children
who ate the revolution !

Still love children. Go meet good people that made good
offspring and natures choice will bring a good smile on your face ! Ask a 5 year old for a politically correct answer
and he will simply question your sanity !

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 13:52 | 3228820 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

I as well, nmewn.  My first pleasure, of course, is to live self-governed and free. A very close second in lieu of that is the pleasure of being that thorn - just ask my family and freinds how irritating I've been over the last several years sounding alarms..  ;)   

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 20:15 | 3229575 nmewn
nmewn's picture

People are waking up, slowly.

They are confused, scared, angry and most importantly, distrustful. Which is good. They have been lied to and their trust abused all their natural lives. They should be distrustful.

They were told if they worked and paid their taxes like good little worker drones, they would be taken care of by the state when they retire. Now they find (even the youngest among us have discovered) the taxes set aside for their retirement has been spent already, stolen by the state, which is now broke.

They were told (more recently) that socialized health care was a panacea, a human right even. They were not told that senators, congresscritters and selected cronies would front run the law for personal gain. Now, those approaching the twilight years of their life, see what that really means is the elderly have become a burden to the state and are something that needs to be dealt with by the cold, uncaring efficiency of a bean counter.

They were told (again recently) that state subsidized "green energy" would equal economic properity and jobs for the people. They were not told this was merely a payback to political cronies for placing them at the levers of power.

They were told (and are still told) they live in a democracy. The biggest lie of all. They are being farmed, like livestock, on the plantation for the benefit of the few.

Very un-democratic.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 20:57 | 3229634 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I agree with you Nmewn that people are waking up, albeit rather slowly. My concern is the result of such awakening. Perhaps one should look to nature for a possible outcome. For example, take 2 dogs, preferably 2 that get along well together. Hold one dog and throw a ball for the other. When the one dog brings the ball back, give the other dog a food treat. Do this again and in a few minutes you will have a massive dog fight. Why? Because dogs, for some reason, have a very strong sense of fairness. They intuitively know that one doing the work deserves the reward. Ah, but what is even more interesting is what doesn't happen. Never do the 2 dogs look at each other and come to the realization that this human has created this unjust game. Never do they use their superior numbers to overwhelm this human...they are too fixated on fighting each other. There lie the rub and why the TPTB and the banksters will enjoy complete impunity and they will walk among us unafraid. We talk of guillotining the assholes but I think if the shit truly hits the fan, in reality, we'll be engaged in trying to survive in a nightmarish world of angry rioting people. Yes, of course I pray for justice. I think if people woke up 20 years ago it may have happened. I think we're to late for it now. Now I'm just hoping some good people survive the massive reset and can rebuild a proper functioning economy and society. I guess I tend to lean to the pessimistic and perusing this site certainly doesn't help!


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 22:16 | 3229730 nmewn
nmewn's picture


"Never do they use their superior numbers (or intellect) to overwhelm this human...they are too fixated on fighting each other."

I think we all know this intuitively. How we break free from each others throats, is one of the issues.

Speaking for myself, I think its ethically and morally wrong to be "guilted" onto another path. This is not to say I have no compassion. I most certainly do. It is to say, I despise moral and ethical equivalency in the hands of statists who are in it for their own profit.

Show me the man (or woman) who renounces their pensions & perks (both public & private) for the good of all society and I will listen to what they have to say.

It has always been about individual motive(s) and always will be, couching themselves in "ïnnocent bromides" and half truths meant for popular consumption, for the unknowing they have created, is nothing I can do anything about...except telling people who will listen, thats exactly what they're doing.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 23:29 | 3229807 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Absolutely. However you must see the delemma. Take this site for example. Here are gathered a group of people with much commonality and cohesion. Even so, there is backstabbing, name calling and pure vehemence. Certainly I'm one for a great debate and have been completely enthralled watching some unfold here yet that seems to be rare now.Throat grappling is more the norm. Perhaps, hopefully, this is just venting. I'm not so sure.

The empty platitudes and hypocrisy bantered about by the MSM and so called elected leaders have no influence on me as well. I have no perks nor pension. I am beholden to no one. All I am today was achieved by my own perseverance, dogged determination and hard work. And the fruits of that work is being stolen by those undeserved. Yes, I am angry and am fighting back as best as I can but at my core I'm am kind and compassionate by nature as well. I'm angered at what I've become; forced on me.

It is good you tell people the truth. This is a noble mission. This is a true sign of compassion. However they themselves must chose to accept the truth and listen. Unfortunately, I have fallen short in that outcome. After so many rebuffs I gave up. I'm naturally skeptical and some what of a cynic so I'm not easily fooled. People today must be more trusting and more easily influenced that I can imagine. In the PC world today, thinking critically is not an asset. I've spoken my mind on occasion only to be sent to sensitivity training. I should be thankful it wasn't reeducation camp. I cringe for the future.


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 23:50 | 3229827 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Throat grappling is more the norm. Perhaps, hopefully, this is just venting."

Its not just venting, we're down to it now. The talking's over. The debate is over. The consensus has arrived. One can pick the theives out in the crowd very easily now, its down to brass tacks.

We will live free or die trying to be free.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 01:17 | 3229990 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I admit the enemy is well defined at this point. However, I for one will not be drawn into a confrontation unless it's unavoidable. I've learned to tread carefully in a burning building and will fight in a time of my choosing. My enemy has 450 million hollow pts. Clearly I am out manned and gunned. I can't win a war of that nature and clearly it would be foolish to try. I'm no Joan of Arc and I can't imagine anyone rallying to my aid. But there are other ways to fight a war. Standing true to principles and not giving in to injustice. Standing ones ground and not being afraid to say no. Now is the time for courage,conviction and guerilla tactics.


Sun, 02/10/2013 - 15:35 | 3231013 mkhs
mkhs's picture

You 're being silly.  They fired a lot of rounds at a suv that only looked like the perp's vehicle.  They can have ten to one in arms, man power, whatever, but they still have only government efficiency.  They will shoot up the neighborhood, but not accomplish a thing.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 16:11 | 3231036 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Our house has the flu, unfortunatley unable to join in this discussion until now..  You said:


"They were told (and are still told) they live in a democracy. The biggest lie of all. They are being farmed, like livestock, on the plantation for the benefit of the few."


So true, all lies.  Trust is the basis of all captial markets and governments. They exist only by the grace of consent - which can be granted much longer than a reasonable man would think.  For the first time since prior to 1861 this country finds itself at a tipping point of consent.  Waking is slow, until it gets real fast..  

Kreiger's post for example..

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:46 | 3228033 gwar5
gwar5's picture

...Kinda like putting on the sunglasses moment in "They Live" and realizing there are hidden monsters already among us?



(h/t  another ZHer who posted this famous scene couple of weeks ago!)

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:54 | 3228053 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I am all out of bubble gum. 

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:15 | 3228091 Banksters
Banksters's picture

H R 347

This law makes it a felony to protest in or near Federal buildings or anywhere the secret service is present.



Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:13 | 3228470 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Is it any wonder that in third world countries they kill judges all the time?

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 15:37 | 3231017 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Is it a law if everyone disobeys it?  How many can they prosecute?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:15 | 3228093 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

a jewish lawyer?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:34 | 3228097 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I am Presbyterian, highly intelligent and FUCKING FOCUSED ON KICKING ASS. It will be the pen and not the sword(read gun) that causes fundamental change. I have many jewish friends who are hard working good souls. Fuck religion. Cocksucker is as cocksucker does.





My daughter deserves nothing less and my ancestors/family, who've resided on these shores for almost 400 years, will not be dishonored.



You're right. I am staying to FIGHT!

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:04 | 3227942 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


On the other hand, if the Obama Administration wins and the Supreme Court refuses to hear the appeal, Hedges states: “at that point we’ve just become a military dictatorship.”

but that surely can't be anything but good, because the military is full of patriots on your side, right?  fighting for your freedoms the world over, right?


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:23 | 3227982 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

The Republic died some time ago - we're Rome on fast forward.  The Republic morphed into Empire and the Empire is collapsing.  

Only the force of arms and lack of any global rival have allowed thigns to last this long but China is ascendant, buying friends and influence with the $$$ it made making crap with the factories the West shipped there in exchange for cheap labor.    China transitioned from rural to industrial on the West's money instead of having to borrow the billions needed - and indebting itself in the process.  The center of power is shifting East again - and Cina has a long memory - with good cause for resentment and anger towards the West.  Opium Wars to reverse a balance of trade for one......

The only real question is how the US procedes... do we decline into a new self-isolated Feudalism/Fascism with a vastly lower average standard of living with a very few at the top ruling over a mass of serfs, a dystopian techno Fascist Orwellian state engaged in perpetual war or do the masses revolt and restore what the Republic once was.......  any of the preceding depoending on mankind in general surviving its own stupidity and destruction of the planet we inhabit

glad I'm near the end of my life because I do not feel good ablout the future.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:56 | 3228161 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

It took a few hundred years for Rome to fall. The provinces on the periphery were slowly lost as they could no longer afford to pay the military or maintain the infrastructure.  The Eastern Empire split off and continued on for centuries while the west languered in poverty for centuries.  Most people just got up and left, many joined the very tribes that would come back and sack Rome itself.  However, the city was never occupied for long because nobody wanted it ... kinda like Detroit.

The fall of America has been going on for a long time.  Give it 100 years.  Even the Portugese still think they are a major world power.  I'm sure Americans will too.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:54 | 3228227 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

Lets seeeee???

1913, 2013, what is the correlation? 100 years. What happened in 1913? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:15 | 3228473 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Umm, let's see...the bankers created a new Constitution?

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:22 | 3228228 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Here's a thought -

David Langford in War in 2080 pointed out that war brings about consolidations into larger blocks of power - think Northern / Southern states, United Kingdom, Europe, the Three Kingdoms, Sekigahara and so forth.

Taken to it's logical conclusion (now that we have the example of the cold war - and can see that Brzezinski saw the danger and sought to engage Beijing), there is (again) considerable potential for a binary war.  In many cases, unity has not been the goal, but that it has happened so many times is owed to the inevitability of large scale conflict.


The American Empire falters but still exists as a power and a presence, albeit very much subdued (history teaches we should never underestimate the USA's ability to bounce back, at least in some capacity).

Now her freinds and client states, Europe, parts of S.America, African States, Canada, Australia (Israel, natch) rally round America, their energy requirements are aligned and, thanks to the wonder of American globalisation, their cultural similarities/languages bind them together, as has the fate of their collective economic power blocks. 

The Japanese naturally fall in not only through fear of China and economic ties but, since losing control of Fukushima Daiichi (and as a consequence Fukushima Daiani) most have fled to the US already as land up to at least 400 km from Fukushima is now glowing in the dark.  This has also had considerable impact on the available foodstock in the Pacific.

They face off against another huge empire that has retained considerable buying power. China's wealth, and her enormous population (1 in 5 of everyone on the planet) make China formidable.  This is not a view shared by the Chinese man in the street, but then he's not seeing much of that wealth.  China draws her clients together, those with aligned aims and cultural similarities - Russia (jets over Japan already), N Korea (who have perhaps been able to co-opt South Korea by now with a little help from their freinds), Laos (thanks for dropping all of those bombs on us America), Vietnam (ditto), etc etc..

China looks like a good bet, vs. the sick men of the west.  They make some pretty good sounding deals to those holding resources in the Middle East, the Balkans, the 'stans, perhaps even a Scandinavian or two - much of which is facilitated by Russia and Russian experience in these spheres.

Before the closing chapter in the story of the modern American economy as we know it, she had a last flurry of building advanced weapons so, although broke, America is well armed and her government militaristic.  The pinnical of this weapons technology is a scramjet vehicle with a nuclear payload able to get halfway around the world in under 40 minutes.  In the middle of the last century, she displayed to the world her attitude to using nuclear weapons in theater. Now everyone is anticipating it. 

China's newbestfreind Russia can still pack a punch, and, thanks to the efforts of greedy arms companies, security breaches and espionage, the East Block's armament is near to or as good as that of the west.

The Western block is starving. The the American grain belt is turning to dust in the face of global climate change. Having lived so long in the comfort of offices, warm homes stuffed with consumer goods, faces stuffed with cheap food, pissing away fuel on ineffcient and monsterous vehicles, wasteful unnessesary built-in-obsolescence electronics, dazzling advertising hoardings, even being able to shit in drinking water every day, their collective populations take the potential cessation of this lifestyle as a personal affront to their liberty.  They lack the education to see it any other way and are easily swayed by groupthink and collective popular opinion.  The MSM are on hand to fan the flames.

"Launch" they chant. "Launch, launch, launch...".   

Those in charge are left with no choice. The miracle of MAD means that the nuclear option remains in the back pocket for now, but a strategy must be formulated.  An extention of the military strategy is the only option. The Western block can run armies or grease palms, but not both.

Both sides move to further increase their military presence in historically one of the most consistently violent areas on the planet.

One side must grab, the other must defend - these are the only options left.

Tensions rise.

We're hanging by the devil's thread now....

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:36 | 3228567 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

At least half of what you wrote is total bullshit. One year, for example, does not a dust bowl make.

The sick man of the west seems to be you and your imagination.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:16 | 3228665 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Just a scenario amigo, no need for name calling.  After all,  predicting the future is like predicting the weather, eh? :) Sometimes, despite all available evidence to the contrary, you've just got to hope, you know? Ben knows you have to have hope, MSM knows it's important to have hope, even Charlie Brown might improve his batting average if he just grits his teeth a little harder...

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:42 | 3228714 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Chinese are ants and know when to leave their anthill or stay put.

Europe is where all the trouble started and likely to continue on a similar path. Countering the islamic invasion alone will take them 200 years back at least
and get them well set into the 15 hundreds.

That is good time frame for the US too to untangle her
unfortunate explosive ethnic mix , but ever ready to act first and "maybe" think about it later they might still come out on top on short notice.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 13:28 | 3228778 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

I would be inclined to agree if we had the luxury of time.  At present the Islamic world does not have the funding, organisation or numbers to counter a big military move, and the increased presence in Western nations is a long way off sufficient saturation to facilitate significant control. Islamic ingenuity should never be ignored - after all we all use Islamic symbols every day when performing calculations. But at the moment the only thing the Islamic nation states are is 'in the way' of the West's energy requirements.

We've divided, conquered, sanctioned, and most importantly (to prevent public opposition to human rights abuses) villified them. What threat do they really represent at present? Terrorism? More people die in the West every day from a shitty diet. To my mind, all that matters now is the aquisition of resource, it's only a matter of time before we see another Allied blitzkrieg to this end (discounting the current African gold/uranium etc grab).

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:32 | 3228002 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Obama has been purging military generals (for not willing to shoot Americans?) and cutting back on military pay and benefits. But no shortage of expanding money and armaments for DHS and local enforcement to do joint interstate VIPR drills. 


One woman had a good take: "We actually ought to thank Obama for handing us our best fighting generals who still believe in rule of law and the Constitution."


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:12 | 3228590 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Obama has been purging military generals


In some cases without even a phone're just gone. It's a lot like Russia in the 1960s.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:35 | 3228009 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Define patriot or patriotism.

In your view is it, an ideal or an allegiance?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:01 | 3228051 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I'll reply to all those who linked below me *here* k?

obviously, what I posted is to stir the pot on whether those in the military are on "your" side, or another side you don't favour.  this topic comes up occasionally on ZH threads, and appears to be shifting albeit slowly, towards maybe the amrkn public shouldn't expect to be supported by those in uniform, although there are some who argue when TSHTF, sides will shift.

now, nmewn:  patriot implies an allegiance to a "state" - is this a state of "mind" or a legal fiction?  that would vary with the mind, in my opinion.  I tend to "define patriot/ism" as someOne who is loyal to their perception of the nationstate they favour - most likely one they're resident in.  some version of national "history" is believed (in), and their actions follow on from there.

ideal or allegiance?  /shrug.  I'll not be interviewing each individual when the situation breaks down, as it obviously will.  nor will I expect anyone to be asking my opinion.

but, once again, for the record - I believe nationstates to be fictions created globally, with varying "rules" and "boundaries" - and I like to entertain the storyline that each has a particular "flavour" as a giant "social experiment" much like ant farms - everyone believes they're special, unique, better than, etc. etc. - but in the end, once those who pull the strings have grown weary of each social experiment, it's ant bomb time, rinse, repeat, infinity.

the "military" part of each ant farm does its job, and gets its rewards - it's a global, history kinda thang.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:17 | 3228084 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"now, nmewn: patriot implies an allegiance to a "state"

No, it does my opinion. Our patriots were not serving with any nation at the time of their fight. They were allied with an ideal and the people who held the same.

I've always wondered though...your curious spelling habits...where do you come from, originally?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:26 | 3228106 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ooooh, I'm so tempted to say Uranus, being the planetary archetype of genius, rebellion, anarchy, liberation. . . but I'll be honest and say I was born in amrka, came of mind in the UK, my heart belongs to scotland, my soul is universal.

sounds pretentious, sure, but beats a passport and a flag.

edit'd, since I forgot to respond beyond the final question, heh - my "spell-ing" is designed to re-mind me to unlearn what I've been taught - correctness - and to highlight the power of words, even as written language decays in2 txt thnk.

and "our patriots" - who is included in your group hug?  and which version of "history" are you embracing here?



Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:29 | 3228122 nmewn
nmewn's picture


At what age did you leave the US? the way, my wifes maiden name is Scottish ;-)

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:46 | 3228154 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I left as soon as amrka said I was "legal" and could get the required document, the passport permission slip.

if your wife's maiden name is actually "Scottish" - I'd marry her and take her name!!  (joke, obviously)  did she keep her name? or double barrel it as the brits occasionally do?

for what it's worth, the UK/Scotland that I had experience of no longer exists, bar the unbelievably beautiful Scottish Highlands/Islands - and it's the West side that I favour, the ones with the rough accented distrust of pretty much everything, and a love o' the malt.  I'm forever grateful to have argued with the best, prior to theme pubs. . .

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:21 | 3228194 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So you left as an "young adult"...thats what I was trying to find out.

"if your wife's maiden name is actually "Scottish"

She is...everything one would expect from a Scot-Aries...independent, strong, firey, opinionated, blonde, green-blue eyes, infuriating (at times), gregarious, great sense of humor, mother of my children...and she took my Irish name as her own...with some prodding ;-)

I do share your love of freedom and its responsiblities.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:45 | 3228215 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"Scots-Aries' eh!  what a coincidence, given that Uranus has moved into Aries, heralding massive cultural shifts towards independence. . . love the Aries folks, they know what they know, good luck shaking them out of their, err, stance  ^^

which Uranus will, particularly with the current long-scale lineup (I'll leave it at that). . . we're still in early days, first couple years of about eight, but it's gonna rock the world, key words being: truth vs. beliefs, individual power vs. institutions - middle 1800's are an echo worth noting. . . as is 41+/- years ago in amrkn history - Nixon, China, gold standard, Kissinger, ayup. . .

Scots-Irish family. . . well hell, that makes a lot of sense now *wink*

cough  pigheaded  cough

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:20 | 3228249 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Hmmm how fascinating. Me, a freedom-loving, passionate fiery Irish women (actually born on March 17th) who continually exasperates her Scottish( Bruce Clan)/Scandinavian husband. He's banged his head against walls and laughed for thirty years over my antics but does admit life would be quite dull without me. I am blessed to have the respect of such a wonderful man. Nmewn and CA I know now why I like both of you, the fiery spirit comes through your posts. I guess I'm a sucker for it since my world is filled with too many MSM indoctrinated zombies that are fully shielded from my barbs. Thanks for all the entertainment!


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 07:50 | 3228407 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

Nmewn and CA I know now why I like both of you,

me too.   particularly like when they both enter the ring, it's like reading a brother & sister go at it (let that be a compliment to you both).

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:46 | 3228499 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think Cat and I agree on more things than we let on to each the hopes that the other will concede first...its a Gaelic thing, more about the fight than anythiing else ;-)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 19:23 | 3229485 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

as long as you stick to the "freedom and responsibilities" line, for everyone, irrespective of sex, I'm there!

I think our only real tussles came from the electioneering stuffs of last year, and the pile-ups with a vodka'd CrockettA trying to "gender" me, which will always get a response, as I refuse a box'd label.  (and I'm not even Aries, ha)

but yer a clever man, and appealing to my weakness for Scots/Irish folks will cost ya!


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 20:53 | 3229625 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"as long as you stick to the "freedom and responsibilities" line, for everyone, irrespective of sex, I'm there!"

I've always tried Cat.

Like when I said that an individuals right to owning gun(s) is something to be jealously guarded by the people (all the people) against attacks by the state on that right (well intentioned or not). Throughout history when the state wants total control it disarms the people. And I specifically had in mind the abused or the weak, whether it was a man or a woman...but especially women, my bias ;-)

With all rights comes reponsibility.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 01:30 | 3230011 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

yeah, I get the right to guns argument.  I was referencing the right to not have the government monitor a woman's body fertility, which is supposedly an "old story" now, and yet! 

A bill introduced by nine Republican state lawmakers in Iowa on Wednesday would define abortion as "murder," sending doctors and raped women who terminate pregnancies to jail.

Republican state Rep. Rob Bacon, who is co-sponsoring the bill, told the Ames Tribune that he wanted to "protect the life of the unborn" because "[t]here’s still some of us that believe life begins at conception."

and not to be outdone by their neighbours, Alabama is working the same vein,

A Republican lawmaker in Alabama says that he wants to pursue a so-called "personhood" bill outlawing abortion rights for women because the Bible proves that a fetus "is life inside of a mother," but he's not sure if "aborted babies" are going to Heaven or Hell.

McGill explained that his interpretation of Psalm 22 made it clear that life began at fertilization.

"Just based on the Scripture alone, the Psalm that talks about God knowing us before he placed us in our mother’s womb, is enough for me to know that that is a life inside of a mother," he said.

"So my question concerning aborted babies is, where do they go, heaven or hell?"


inevitable I suppose, these *ideas* won't die off, even though humans will. . . my favourite comment in the second post's thread,

"McGill explained that his interpretation of Psalm 22 made it clear that life began at fertilization."

What part of "Seperation of Church and State" did you miss in school you fuckstick?

"So my question concerning aborted babies is, where do they go, heaven or hell?"

Thats a question for you and your religious leader, not the rest of us, and certainly not something to be entered into legislation you stupid dipshit!

luckily everyone still has a right to their guns, since this will obviously be settled in time honoured fashion. . .


Sun, 02/10/2013 - 11:02 | 3230411 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Are we going to do this again? ;-)

If I get what you're don't want the state dictating (by law) what can or cannot be done with a human fetus or zygote as you call them.

So you would agree the state should not be in the business of funding (by law) abortions either?

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 15:00 | 3230919 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

no, we're not going to "do this again" - if you can't understand my point by now, and insist on making this a "money/taxes" issue, then it's a dead end.

voting to allow government the rights over a woman's body, in the guise of monitoring her fertility to make sure that IF she gets pregnant, she's in lockdown until birth - that's the logical, unthinkable outcome of this, something more unreal than a TSA grope, a DNA bank, a chip to give one access to purchasing via pixels, all of it.  if your mind, or anyone else's here cannot see the inevitable path this draconian regressive "religious" bullshit is leading to, even with all the other "hints" at present, then what's to say?

sure, women can pile themselves behind barricaded doors when the fertility police come to test their monthly cycle, and they can go out in a blaze of glory, shooting up anyone who challenges their right to body privacy.

makes a great meme. . .

by the way, the "zygote, as you call them" line tells me you're not paying attention to the legal definitions being used by these "lawmakers" - "zygote" being "person" and gaining "personhood" - that's a blind spot nmewn, words have legal use in this nationstate, legal use against the people.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 19:06 | 3231471 nmewn
nmewn's picture you're going to plead the fifth.

"Freedom and responsibilities"

So on the one hand, everyone should be free from state interference in the bedroom but the state (or better said the taxpayer) should bear any and all consequence of that activity for some.

Sounds completely "free" of any "responsibility" whatsoever to me ;-)

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:44 | 3228571 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Me too, Campbell clan -  onery. Fought for the Bruce against the English at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314 during the Wars of Scottish Independence.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:50 | 3228645 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

A compatriot! It all falls into place. The land of the free and home of the brave.....Scotland :-)


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 20:40 | 3229608 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your post prompted curiousity in me DaveyJones, so I looked up the dates for outer planets (these always herald the changes long term/large scale, aka "national/global"). . .

Uranus was in Sagittarius, a fiery, future-oriented, impressionable sign which includes beliefs put forward as truths, be they religion or rulership/national - Uranus always upsets the current reality favouring change, and is that who will not be obeyed, heh. . . Pluto, yet to be discovered, was in Pisces, which can be representative of religion, particularly Christ-ian, Pisces symbol being the Fishes, very Jesus. . . Pluto is the "death" of whatever archetypal sign it sit in. . .death/rebirth. . .

so, ANYHOW, heh, Pluto was in early Pisces circa 1314, Uranus in late Sagittarius. . . ripe for rebellion against the Divine Rule of English Kings, and ready to prove it by any means necessary. . .

At dawn the Scots ate their breakfast and advanced out of the wood to face the enemy. Medieval battles were seen as the judgement of God; it was important to have the saints on your side, and so, in the midst of the Scots schiltroms, Abbot Bernard of Arbroath carried their ancient lucky talisman, the Breccbennach (or Monymusk Relquary), which held the relics of St Columba.

Bruce himself made a speech invoking the power of St Andrew, John the Baptist and Thomas Beckett. Then, according to the chronicler Walter Bower: "At these words, the hammered horns resounded, and the standards of war were spread out in the golden dawn."

Abbot Maurice of Inchaffrey walked out in front of the army, led mass and blessed the Scots as they knelt in prayer. On seeing this, Edward II is reputed to have said: "Yon folk are kneeling to ask mercy." Sir Ingram de Umfraville, a Balliol supporter fighting for Edward, is said to have replied: "They ask for mercy, but not from you. They ask God for mercy for their sins. I'll tell you something for a fact, that yon men will win all or die. None will flee for fear of death." "So be it", retorted Edward.

good tale, even if it's the BBC version.

just now, we have Pluto in Capricorn, symbol of institutions built from beliefs, and archetype of Corporations, NationStates, Laws. . . being squared (90dg angle/tension requiring adjustment/outcome) by Uranus in Aries - god of War, planet of Fk OFF!!

there will be blood.  and there will be change, over time as always, eh . . .  (my peeps also come from that same area, west lowlands, south and east of Campbell-town)

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 01:32 | 3230012 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

my favorite kilt battle story goes back to the Romans. The Romans got a sip of their heather ale (heather in place of hops) and offered them a deal if they would give them the recipie. They refused and beat them back.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 14:49 | 3230931 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

with a hearty "fuck off!!" and a lifted kilt bare backside for visuals, no doubt!


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:54 | 3228587 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Yes! I especially liked the part where Nmewn subtly entices CA ( who fiercely guards her anonymity) into revealing herself. Penetrating the persona for a future engagement. I can't wait to see the next installment.


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 19:41 | 3229510 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

that's just weird, as my perception is that I give away too much information, rather the opposite of "anonymity" - ha!

in the past I've gotten some whining about this being a "trading blog" and enough with the personal style posts, though to be honest, I'll post what I like and just take the hate/red votes - but I do sometimes try to keep my topics to replies, and rarely instigate "off topic" unless the thread is dying/dead - then it's fair game, IMO.  as I've said, I come here to argue, to learn from others doing the same - I'm rather more polite in person, so this is a great format to play in.

also, as I'm not married, have no children, and sans a "career" - those are common topics shared as personal, yes? - maybe that makes it seem as though I'm more "anonymous" than most?

of course, if it comes to music, I can't be trusted not to link something if it pops into my head. . . I have an ever-present soundtrack, and quite often it lyrically coincides with a moment of "real time" in a way that stops me, frozen in time, full.

and it makes me want to share - if I'm *here* then I apologise to all who can't bear anything but "math" - heh.

Mon, 02/11/2013 - 00:33 | 3232260 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Oh CA, I'm sorry. I was just joking when I posted that. I am a terrible tease in real life which is impossible to do on a blog effectively. One just appears to be an asshole not having the nuance of body language or inflection of voice. You have a florid style of writing. Rich, almost poetic. To me, it's mysterious and open ended. Me? I'm in the world of qualitation and quantification. My world is stark black and white. I impart facts to those who need them. No flourish in my prose. Quite boring really.

Being a Pisces ( moon in Aries I might add) this has been quite a challenge for me. Decisions are exceedingly difficult for me due to the fact I have trouble coaxing my fish to swim in unison. My mother loved astrology. Some of my earliest memories were getting an Ephemeris at the local head shop in San Francisco. We never got along very well due to the fact she was a Libra ( her explanation).

I also feel a little guilty posting person issues here though I do it frequently. I try never to hijack a thread which is just bad manners. But this thread has run its course and I agree it's fair game. Just because we aren't traders doesn't mean we don't have valid points of view or opinions. Some of the most insightful comments here have been people not in the biz. Quite a motley crew of characters make this place interesting and keep me coming back. But this certainly is not the place for people who are offended easily or have weak intestinal fortitude. I've been slammed a few times here, anonymity certainly makes some giddy with power. Feel free to verbally challenge me if desired. I'm sure you'll find my jugular exposed at some point though I won't profess to be a good debater ( can't get my fish to swim in one direction and get paralyzed thinking of all contingencies and outcomes) :-)


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:35 | 3254610 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

wild hair directed me back to this thread, which I was *done* with - so glad I did come back, the astrological info you leaked is the best bait (bored, cold weather "advisory" here, so it's indoors *grrr*). . .

Pisces Sun, the symbolism of the "fishes swimming in opposite directions" - you're not meant to get 'em focused on one path, even if your moon would desire this, the Pisces route is to acknowledge the whole (All That Is) even though you may seem to believe in a certain path, you accept that you need to realise the parts are what make up the whole, and we are all "parts" - also the fish archetype includes the meme:  fish don't acknowledge the water, it's reality for them, in the way ours is for us - put us underwater, or a fish on land, neither survives. . . we all have our place(s).  this is a pisces "lesson" of acceptance, particularly of others, compassion.

the balance of the Pisces lesson is to find a piece of the whole, and learn it well - specialising (which you do, of course!) - this gives you a way to be of service to the whole, to feel a part of all that is.  when you (often) feel overwhelmed by the whole, you can retreat to what you know to be true, your piece of the whole, and also compassion for others who don't quite get "it" yet. . .applied to self, incrementally, as well.

now, the Aries Moon - there's the Fire that causes steam in your pisces water!  the moon archetype often represents "Mother" (with Saturn the Father, although these can be reversed depending on the parents), and if your mother is a Libra, then the moon in your chart exemplifies a struggle with "her" and her attempting to socialise you into an identity you don't fit.  it's where the unConcious (moon) battles with the cultural story vs. the self-identity (our social upbringing, vs. our personal truths, which is completely the Aries archetype, me first!  your libra mother would be allll about relationships of every type, how others feel, and how she can fit into others lives. . . depending on the rest of her chart, of course - I'm only pointing out superficially how she might "feel" to you, from your perspective.

with regards "manners" here, well, I'm still holding to the Fight Club meme, if someone is deliberately thread-jacking, then it can get pointed out, and whatever follows, does.  the "more personal" stuff shows up in little pockets all over the site, and that's a part of the whole - if someone wants to address that, fine, but not with the whine of "this is a trading site!!" because sorry, ZH is more than that, and less at times.  there's "personal" woven into most posts, even the ones who only post the same old lines all day, heh. . .

Aries Moon. . . this is a great place to try on that hat!!


Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:19 | 3228617 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

That is interesting, I've never met a persom named Scotish, is it an Irish name?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:30 | 3228126 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

A patriot is someone so enamored with an ideal, they choose to forego critical thinking. They choose to be morons and in doing so, they congratulate themselves on their service to that ideal. 

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:33 | 3228132 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Would the partisans of France fighting against Hitler fall into this category?

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:20 | 3228163 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Yes, if their reason was patriotism. If they were fighting for their liberty, that's a different animal. Hard to see the difference between Hitler and central bankers ( except the bankers are more destructive ) and France was a vassal of the Rothschilds. There are ZERO good governments, therefore, all patriots are morons or ignorant to impossible degrees of irresponsibility.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:27 | 3228200 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So I take t you've given up on a societal structure? Which is government, however elemental.

There is no wrong and I can survive by our talents in both circumstances...its just a question.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:16 | 3228246 Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

One mans patriot is some narcissistic dictatorial pinko fags terrorist.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:53 | 3228506 GetZeeGold
Sat, 02/09/2013 - 08:42 | 3228450 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I've given up on what we presently call government. Societal structure is a whole other subject. I've given up on coercion as a means for governing. The essence of the State MUST be voluntary. I understand what humans are and their limitations. Any governing structure that allows for the desemination of power without permission of each individual will result in tyranny.

It is not efficient, it is not organized, it has no set purpose, but it is liberty. Who knows, after a couple of hundred years, we might have it down to a science. What I do know for certain, we have totalitarianism now, we had totalitarianism before and we will have brutalizing totalitarianism in the future and the payment in death to eliminate it will be astronomical- and it will get worse with every passing year

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:51 | 3228503 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Lets just try not to kill each other while in the process of eliminating it.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:57 | 3228514 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

That would be my hope, but like I said, I understand the limitations of humans. 

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:38 | 3228569 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

The category was "the very few" unless you believe hollywood history.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 13:41 | 3228802 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

To be a partisan in France was a matter of style like being
an Artisan in Rome. Wrong background, bad style , but were
young and needed the money.

Filthy life artists. But in the francophone parts of today`s
Charlemagne`s reign it is still the rule to embrace all the wrong things like the Jacobines slogan engraved on french Euro coins., so I better stop
whining or they get me deported to my drone-home...

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:46 | 3228265 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

One man's "patriot" is another man's "terrorist".

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 13:07 | 3228753 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Idealistic ignorance ! Sir !

Next question please, Sir !

Blank stare, even more taxing attitude, insecure body
gestures : Your point, please ! While looking down.

I meant to say an ideal allegiance in a patriot way to
counter patriotism ! Yes , Sir!

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:06 | 3227946 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer"

Henry Kissinger, New York Times, Oct. 28, 1973

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:13 | 3227965 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

'condestructive ambiguity'

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:05 | 3228069 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

earle!  dude!  getting jiggy with the verbiage!

upvoted, lol.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:53 | 3228159 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

How did you do that?

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 05:34 | 3228361 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Type your comments into Word, format the font, and then paste them into the comment section if you want to get stylish. I haven't tried it but that's what I would do.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 09:59 | 3228517 fuu
fuu's picture

Or just highlight the letters you want to change and click the X2 or X2 buttons on the style bar in the comment box.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:18 | 3228556 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Fuu: I use Tor. No formatting functions even show up. They did a couple weeks ago but not now.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:12 | 3228605 fuu
fuu's picture

Well then you do what works for you.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:07 | 3227949 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

Very articulate man...but Americans (US that is) need to understand that your history, from the revolution and founding fathers themselves, has been a manuscript, a manipulation. As end game approaches, the irony of the world's great democracy, by legerdemain, transitioning to dictatorship will be seen as no longer as that (ie ironic) . A  deeper sojourn down the rabbit hole will expose that this was the intention from day one, it was the constitutional republic bit of history that was the illusion ...the dictatorship bit was always the reality.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 22:09 | 3227957 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I do not think so.....if that were true, guns would have been dealt with years ago. 

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:07 | 3228071 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

nah, "the guns" meme is working fine - this is capital-ism, the manufacturers are profiting hella, AND most folks use the guns laterally.

crowd control and all. . .

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:15 | 3228090 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

maybe so, but I do not buy this...."plan has been in motion for hundreds of years" shit. People give these fuckers too much credit. They are scared, because they know we still hold some power and it is those guns that punctuate that fact. This is why they want all of the surveillance and unmanned drones....and the guns.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:03 | 3228169 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the drones are part of the whole plan, surely, since they've been in use by OTHER nationstates for years now - and given that amrka is the "armed forces" for the global soup thang, it's only natural that the local polices (state, city, etc.) are getting the toys now too.

I'm old enough to remember cops before they robo'd - and to remember "bobbies" walking the beat in britain too, sans guns.  in fact, one of the first things I remember clearly was the relaxing between my shoulders when out in public in London, having come from a major (crime) city in amrka - I genuinely felt the missing tension while walking alone, late at night, coming back from clubs, etc. - I suppose being female I had an extra dose of fear instilled from a young age, but it was quite a revelation to me at the time.

anyhow, I don't believe "they" are "scared" in the least - the ones I'm referencing most likely never even encounter the overwhelming majority of "humanity" - everyone else arranged in the downward pyramid of hierarchy is just doing what they believe they're told.

besides, at what point do you suppose the "power" and the guns are going to group together and do anything? genuine question!  how many will be in this group?  and what will it do?  are you familiar with Philadelphia's MOVE organisation, and what happened?  and that was nearly 30 years ago, one can only imagine the horrors in store for any real "resistance" to the plot. . .

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 11:08 | 3228256 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

There will be no "armed resistance". Change will come via the law. If people take up arms, it will further undo their right to bear arms. That is understood and you can watch any debate with that smarmy mouthpiece Piers Morgan. He gets regularly, verbally destroyed by numerous pro-gun folks. His only defense is turning up his mic. We have had drones on our borders for many years. The good news is that enough people here in 'Merica do care about our freedoms and become politically active. We do not roll over like Ye Ol' Brits and accept advances against our "inalienable rights". This is why the NRA is such a huge lobby and why our Constitution has lasted mostly unchanged. They try via erosion to change our laws, but it does not work. They will keep trying, but we are hard wired over here to the pursuit of liberty. They try to make us out as drooling Kardashianesque fools, but most people are fairly plugged into the reality. It is "their" arrogance that will be the hindrance and undoing. It's about numbers. "They" are outnumbered and they know it. This is why they try these campaigns for change. It will not work. The truth shall win. They may win some battles, but ultimately, the "war" will be won by folks like me who will not go silently into that good night. Knowledge will be the weapon that works the best. Make sure you remove any and all large knives so as to keep in compliance with the advance of the Nanny State that cares so much for to keep those revenues coming in. 

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 08:16 | 3228428 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"I don't believe "they" are "scared" in the least"

on the contrary, i would make the case that "they" (if we agree for the purposes of this discussion on who "they" are without going into further detail) are scared shitless, if only by observing the reflection of a society currently molded in their image.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 10:51 | 3228582 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

'm with tip. Their actions demonstrate their fear.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 12:16 | 3228663 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And their paranoia, in a majority of us finding out what they've been up to all these years.

From front-running the laws they create in their own stock trading accounts for personal excluding themselves from the laws they create for everyone else to destroying the very value of the nations currency with every Continuing Resolution passed, instead of debating an actual budget to live by and for all to see.

They've been very naughty little boys & girls up there.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 16:25 | 3229153 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

To me the great tragedy continues to be that the government in power in the USA rushed into totalitarianism just as soon as the technical means to do so became available.

The Constitution, that document believed by the naive to provide some kind of sacred barrier to the tyranny of the elites in the US, was ripped through like so much toilet paper (NDAA only being one example), although truth be told it has long suffered insult and injury since the time of  Lincoln, the establishment of the Fed, FDR and the neo-Cons, of which Obama is the ultimate expression - the latter fooling the less perceptive into believing he is the opposite of the clown who came before him...

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:23 | 3228108 nmewn
nmewn's picture

True, the guns meme is working just fine...its keeping everyone from discussing the bone crushing effects of socialized ObamaCare & bureacrat statists spending like drunken communists trying to kick the can long enough to collect a pension off the backs of their grandchildren.


Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:35 | 3228136 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I suggest you study our early history and mechantilism. The founding fathers wanted a king, to limit democratic passions and limit representation to those with money and land. Of course, you won't read this in a standard textbook- seek out the revisionists and more modern efforts.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 23:59 | 3228166 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The Federalists, yes.  The Democratic-Republicans, not so much.  Both of them believed that the uneducated and unwashed were not capable of participating in ruling.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 00:13 | 3228182 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Marbury v Madison was all it took to make Jefferson a federalist. The Louisiana Purchase? All the treaty gave us was New Orleans, St.Louis and the right to navigate the rivers in the territory. We were supposed to buy land from the Natives. Talk is cheap, actions define people.

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