Guest Post: Is The NDAA Lawsuit Headed To The Supreme Court?

Tyler Durden's picture

Via Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

The NDAA lawsuit is one of the key topics we have written about over the past year or so.  For those of you that aren’t up to speed, one of the most popular posts we ever wrote was NDAA: The Most Important Lawsuit in American History that No One is Talking About.  Basically, Section 1021 of the NDAA allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens without charges or a trial.  Journalist Chris Hedges and several others sued Obama on the grounds of it being unconstitutional.  Judge Katherine Forrest agreed and issued an injunction on it.  This was immediately appealed by the Obama Administration to a higher court, which promptly issued a temporary stay on the injunction.

Yesterday, oral arguments began in front of this aforementioned higher court; the 2nd Circuit.  As Chris Hedges states in the interview below, if they win the case then it will likely be brought in front of the Supreme Court within weeks.  On the other hand, if the Obama Administration wins and the Supreme Court refuses to hear the appeal, Hedges states: “at that point we’ve just become a military dictatorship.”

To get a full update on the progress of the NDAA lawsuit make sure to watch this video.

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Gamma735's picture

The system is designed to hammer any nails that stand up.  It does not surprise me that our higher education institutions do not want to stand up.

medium giraffe's picture

Certainly not until they can at least come up with a new name for it:

Neo-corporatism? Ziofascism? iNazism? Obamotribadism? 


Angus McHugepenis's picture

I would have calmly got up and walked towards the scum bag lawyer and started beating him to within an inch of his life. If he was still semi lucid I would tell him that is the definition of my NDAA.

nmewn's picture

I prefer to remain here and be a thorn in their side (or worse) until I die.

Then its the indebted kiddies problem...they'll figure it out too ;-)

DaveyJones's picture

feel the same. I hate letting the bad guys win. Owe it to my kids. And yours. We let this happen. Let it go too far. We owe it to them to get it back. This is a bluff game. It always has been. That's how criminals work.   

tip e. canoe's picture

same.   we owe it to the kids to wipe the board so that they have a choice to play a new game not designed by, of and for sociopaths.

DaveyJones's picture

one nation, under socioipaths, with genetically modified liberty and Ipads for all

TheGardener's picture

Right nmewn ! Ask people that were born and raised behind the iron curtain about their childhood. Their dictator parents weren`t too benevolent to start with and had a lot of disincentives to protect their families with kin liability up and running. All children belong to the state and let's sacrifice those that don`t fit in !

Guess what ? Grandmas and Greataunties (sorry no elder males ,all got killed ) told kids before they could listen who the real enemy is, was and supposed to be , the theories they had not figured out in a lifetime but knew everything they were ever told was somehow fundamentally wrong.

Those happy children without hunger without surplus food (lined up 5 times a week at all the butchers in town to
have a choice at weeks end) rose up to become the very self
righteous little assholes defying communism, the children
who ate the revolution !

Still love children. Go meet good people that made good
offspring and natures choice will bring a good smile on your face ! Ask a 5 year old for a politically correct answer
and he will simply question your sanity !

Shell Game's picture

I as well, nmewn.  My first pleasure, of course, is to live self-governed and free. A very close second in lieu of that is the pleasure of being that thorn - just ask my family and freinds how irritating I've been over the last several years sounding alarms..  ;)   

nmewn's picture

People are waking up, slowly.

They are confused, scared, angry and most importantly, distrustful. Which is good. They have been lied to and their trust abused all their natural lives. They should be distrustful.

They were told if they worked and paid their taxes like good little worker drones, they would be taken care of by the state when they retire. Now they find (even the youngest among us have discovered) the taxes set aside for their retirement has been spent already, stolen by the state, which is now broke.

They were told (more recently) that socialized health care was a panacea, a human right even. They were not told that senators, congresscritters and selected cronies would front run the law for personal gain. Now, those approaching the twilight years of their life, see what that really means is the elderly have become a burden to the state and are something that needs to be dealt with by the cold, uncaring efficiency of a bean counter.

They were told (again recently) that state subsidized "green energy" would equal economic properity and jobs for the people. They were not told this was merely a payback to political cronies for placing them at the levers of power.

They were told (and are still told) they live in a democracy. The biggest lie of all. They are being farmed, like livestock, on the plantation for the benefit of the few.

Very un-democratic.

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I agree with you Nmewn that people are waking up, albeit rather slowly. My concern is the result of such awakening. Perhaps one should look to nature for a possible outcome. For example, take 2 dogs, preferably 2 that get along well together. Hold one dog and throw a ball for the other. When the one dog brings the ball back, give the other dog a food treat. Do this again and in a few minutes you will have a massive dog fight. Why? Because dogs, for some reason, have a very strong sense of fairness. They intuitively know that one doing the work deserves the reward. Ah, but what is even more interesting is what doesn't happen. Never do the 2 dogs look at each other and come to the realization that this human has created this unjust game. Never do they use their superior numbers to overwhelm this human...they are too fixated on fighting each other. There lie the rub and why the TPTB and the banksters will enjoy complete impunity and they will walk among us unafraid. We talk of guillotining the assholes but I think if the shit truly hits the fan, in reality, we'll be engaged in trying to survive in a nightmarish world of angry rioting people. Yes, of course I pray for justice. I think if people woke up 20 years ago it may have happened. I think we're to late for it now. Now I'm just hoping some good people survive the massive reset and can rebuild a proper functioning economy and society. I guess I tend to lean to the pessimistic and perusing this site certainly doesn't help!


nmewn's picture


"Never do they use their superior numbers (or intellect) to overwhelm this human...they are too fixated on fighting each other."

I think we all know this intuitively. How we break free from each others throats, is one of the issues.

Speaking for myself, I think its ethically and morally wrong to be "guilted" onto another path. This is not to say I have no compassion. I most certainly do. It is to say, I despise moral and ethical equivalency in the hands of statists who are in it for their own profit.

Show me the man (or woman) who renounces their pensions & perks (both public & private) for the good of all society and I will listen to what they have to say.

It has always been about individual motive(s) and always will be, couching themselves in "ïnnocent bromides" and half truths meant for popular consumption, for the unknowing they have created, is nothing I can do anything about...except telling people who will listen, thats exactly what they're doing.

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Absolutely. However you must see the delemma. Take this site for example. Here are gathered a group of people with much commonality and cohesion. Even so, there is backstabbing, name calling and pure vehemence. Certainly I'm one for a great debate and have been completely enthralled watching some unfold here yet that seems to be rare now.Throat grappling is more the norm. Perhaps, hopefully, this is just venting. I'm not so sure.

The empty platitudes and hypocrisy bantered about by the MSM and so called elected leaders have no influence on me as well. I have no perks nor pension. I am beholden to no one. All I am today was achieved by my own perseverance, dogged determination and hard work. And the fruits of that work is being stolen by those undeserved. Yes, I am angry and am fighting back as best as I can but at my core I'm am kind and compassionate by nature as well. I'm angered at what I've become; forced on me.

It is good you tell people the truth. This is a noble mission. This is a true sign of compassion. However they themselves must chose to accept the truth and listen. Unfortunately, I have fallen short in that outcome. After so many rebuffs I gave up. I'm naturally skeptical and some what of a cynic so I'm not easily fooled. People today must be more trusting and more easily influenced that I can imagine. In the PC world today, thinking critically is not an asset. I've spoken my mind on occasion only to be sent to sensitivity training. I should be thankful it wasn't reeducation camp. I cringe for the future.


nmewn's picture

"Throat grappling is more the norm. Perhaps, hopefully, this is just venting."

Its not just venting, we're down to it now. The talking's over. The debate is over. The consensus has arrived. One can pick the theives out in the crowd very easily now, its down to brass tacks.

We will live free or die trying to be free.

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I admit the enemy is well defined at this point. However, I for one will not be drawn into a confrontation unless it's unavoidable. I've learned to tread carefully in a burning building and will fight in a time of my choosing. My enemy has 450 million hollow pts. Clearly I am out manned and gunned. I can't win a war of that nature and clearly it would be foolish to try. I'm no Joan of Arc and I can't imagine anyone rallying to my aid. But there are other ways to fight a war. Standing true to principles and not giving in to injustice. Standing ones ground and not being afraid to say no. Now is the time for courage,conviction and guerilla tactics.


mkhs's picture

You 're being silly.  They fired a lot of rounds at a suv that only looked like the perp's vehicle.  They can have ten to one in arms, man power, whatever, but they still have only government efficiency.  They will shoot up the neighborhood, but not accomplish a thing.

Shell Game's picture

Our house has the flu, unfortunatley unable to join in this discussion until now..  You said:


"They were told (and are still told) they live in a democracy. The biggest lie of all. They are being farmed, like livestock, on the plantation for the benefit of the few."


So true, all lies.  Trust is the basis of all captial markets and governments. They exist only by the grace of consent - which can be granted much longer than a reasonable man would think.  For the first time since prior to 1861 this country finds itself at a tipping point of consent.  Waking is slow, until it gets real fast..  

Kreiger's post for example..

gwar5's picture

...Kinda like putting on the sunglasses moment in "They Live" and realizing there are hidden monsters already among us?



(h/t  another ZHer who posted this famous scene couple of weeks ago!)

IridiumRebel's picture

I am all out of bubble gum. 

Banksters's picture

H R 347

This law makes it a felony to protest in or near Federal buildings or anywhere the secret service is present.



Go Tribe's picture

Is it any wonder that in third world countries they kill judges all the time?

mkhs's picture

Is it a law if everyone disobeys it?  How many can they prosecute?

IridiumRebel's picture

I am Presbyterian, highly intelligent and FUCKING FOCUSED ON KICKING ASS. It will be the pen and not the sword(read gun) that causes fundamental change. I have many jewish friends who are hard working good souls. Fuck religion. Cocksucker is as cocksucker does.





My daughter deserves nothing less and my ancestors/family, who've resided on these shores for almost 400 years, will not be dishonored.



You're right. I am staying to FIGHT!

Cathartes Aura's picture


On the other hand, if the Obama Administration wins and the Supreme Court refuses to hear the appeal, Hedges states: “at that point we’ve just become a military dictatorship.”

but that surely can't be anything but good, because the military is full of patriots on your side, right?  fighting for your freedoms the world over, right?


cynicalskeptic's picture

The Republic died some time ago - we're Rome on fast forward.  The Republic morphed into Empire and the Empire is collapsing.  

Only the force of arms and lack of any global rival have allowed thigns to last this long but China is ascendant, buying friends and influence with the $$$ it made making crap with the factories the West shipped there in exchange for cheap labor.    China transitioned from rural to industrial on the West's money instead of having to borrow the billions needed - and indebting itself in the process.  The center of power is shifting East again - and Cina has a long memory - with good cause for resentment and anger towards the West.  Opium Wars to reverse a balance of trade for one......

The only real question is how the US procedes... do we decline into a new self-isolated Feudalism/Fascism with a vastly lower average standard of living with a very few at the top ruling over a mass of serfs, a dystopian techno Fascist Orwellian state engaged in perpetual war or do the masses revolt and restore what the Republic once was.......  any of the preceding depoending on mankind in general surviving its own stupidity and destruction of the planet we inhabit

glad I'm near the end of my life because I do not feel good ablout the future.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

It took a few hundred years for Rome to fall. The provinces on the periphery were slowly lost as they could no longer afford to pay the military or maintain the infrastructure.  The Eastern Empire split off and continued on for centuries while the west languered in poverty for centuries.  Most people just got up and left, many joined the very tribes that would come back and sack Rome itself.  However, the city was never occupied for long because nobody wanted it ... kinda like Detroit.

The fall of America has been going on for a long time.  Give it 100 years.  Even the Portugese still think they are a major world power.  I'm sure Americans will too.

salvadordaly's picture

Lets seeeee???

1913, 2013, what is the correlation? 100 years. What happened in 1913? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

Go Tribe's picture

Umm, let's see...the bankers created a new Constitution?

medium giraffe's picture

Here's a thought -

David Langford in War in 2080 pointed out that war brings about consolidations into larger blocks of power - think Northern / Southern states, United Kingdom, Europe, the Three Kingdoms, Sekigahara and so forth.

Taken to it's logical conclusion (now that we have the example of the cold war - and can see that Brzezinski saw the danger and sought to engage Beijing), there is (again) considerable potential for a binary war.  In many cases, unity has not been the goal, but that it has happened so many times is owed to the inevitability of large scale conflict.


The American Empire falters but still exists as a power and a presence, albeit very much subdued (history teaches we should never underestimate the USA's ability to bounce back, at least in some capacity).

Now her freinds and client states, Europe, parts of S.America, African States, Canada, Australia (Israel, natch) rally round America, their energy requirements are aligned and, thanks to the wonder of American globalisation, their cultural similarities/languages bind them together, as has the fate of their collective economic power blocks. 

The Japanese naturally fall in not only through fear of China and economic ties but, since losing control of Fukushima Daiichi (and as a consequence Fukushima Daiani) most have fled to the US already as land up to at least 400 km from Fukushima is now glowing in the dark.  This has also had considerable impact on the available foodstock in the Pacific.

They face off against another huge empire that has retained considerable buying power. China's wealth, and her enormous population (1 in 5 of everyone on the planet) make China formidable.  This is not a view shared by the Chinese man in the street, but then he's not seeing much of that wealth.  China draws her clients together, those with aligned aims and cultural similarities - Russia (jets over Japan already), N Korea (who have perhaps been able to co-opt South Korea by now with a little help from their freinds), Laos (thanks for dropping all of those bombs on us America), Vietnam (ditto), etc etc..

China looks like a good bet, vs. the sick men of the west.  They make some pretty good sounding deals to those holding resources in the Middle East, the Balkans, the 'stans, perhaps even a Scandinavian or two - much of which is facilitated by Russia and Russian experience in these spheres.

Before the closing chapter in the story of the modern American economy as we know it, she had a last flurry of building advanced weapons so, although broke, America is well armed and her government militaristic.  The pinnical of this weapons technology is a scramjet vehicle with a nuclear payload able to get halfway around the world in under 40 minutes.  In the middle of the last century, she displayed to the world her attitude to using nuclear weapons in theater. Now everyone is anticipating it. 

China's newbestfreind Russia can still pack a punch, and, thanks to the efforts of greedy arms companies, security breaches and espionage, the East Block's armament is near to or as good as that of the west.

The Western block is starving. The the American grain belt is turning to dust in the face of global climate change. Having lived so long in the comfort of offices, warm homes stuffed with consumer goods, faces stuffed with cheap food, pissing away fuel on ineffcient and monsterous vehicles, wasteful unnessesary built-in-obsolescence electronics, dazzling advertising hoardings, even being able to shit in drinking water every day, their collective populations take the potential cessation of this lifestyle as a personal affront to their liberty.  They lack the education to see it any other way and are easily swayed by groupthink and collective popular opinion.  The MSM are on hand to fan the flames.

"Launch" they chant. "Launch, launch, launch...".   

Those in charge are left with no choice. The miracle of MAD means that the nuclear option remains in the back pocket for now, but a strategy must be formulated.  An extention of the military strategy is the only option. The Western block can run armies or grease palms, but not both.

Both sides move to further increase their military presence in historically one of the most consistently violent areas on the planet.

One side must grab, the other must defend - these are the only options left.

Tensions rise.

We're hanging by the devil's thread now....

Moe Howard's picture

At least half of what you wrote is total bullshit. One year, for example, does not a dust bowl make.

The sick man of the west seems to be you and your imagination.

medium giraffe's picture

Just a scenario amigo, no need for name calling.  After all,  predicting the future is like predicting the weather, eh? :) Sometimes, despite all available evidence to the contrary, you've just got to hope, you know? Ben knows you have to have hope, MSM knows it's important to have hope, even Charlie Brown might improve his batting average if he just grits his teeth a little harder...

TheGardener's picture

Chinese are ants and know when to leave their anthill or stay put.

Europe is where all the trouble started and likely to continue on a similar path. Countering the islamic invasion alone will take them 200 years back at least
and get them well set into the 15 hundreds.

That is good time frame for the US too to untangle her
unfortunate explosive ethnic mix , but ever ready to act first and "maybe" think about it later they might still come out on top on short notice.

medium giraffe's picture

I would be inclined to agree if we had the luxury of time.  At present the Islamic world does not have the funding, organisation or numbers to counter a big military move, and the increased presence in Western nations is a long way off sufficient saturation to facilitate significant control. Islamic ingenuity should never be ignored - after all we all use Islamic symbols every day when performing calculations. But at the moment the only thing the Islamic nation states are is 'in the way' of the West's energy requirements.

We've divided, conquered, sanctioned, and most importantly (to prevent public opposition to human rights abuses) villified them. What threat do they really represent at present? Terrorism? More people die in the West every day from a shitty diet. To my mind, all that matters now is the aquisition of resource, it's only a matter of time before we see another Allied blitzkrieg to this end (discounting the current African gold/uranium etc grab).

gwar5's picture

Obama has been purging military generals (for not willing to shoot Americans?) and cutting back on military pay and benefits. But no shortage of expanding money and armaments for DHS and local enforcement to do joint interstate VIPR drills. 


One woman had a good take: "We actually ought to thank Obama for handing us our best fighting generals who still believe in rule of law and the Constitution."


GetZeeGold's picture



Obama has been purging military generals


In some cases without even a phone're just gone. It's a lot like Russia in the 1960s.

nmewn's picture

Define patriot or patriotism.

In your view is it, an ideal or an allegiance?

Cathartes Aura's picture

I'll reply to all those who linked below me *here* k?

obviously, what I posted is to stir the pot on whether those in the military are on "your" side, or another side you don't favour.  this topic comes up occasionally on ZH threads, and appears to be shifting albeit slowly, towards maybe the amrkn public shouldn't expect to be supported by those in uniform, although there are some who argue when TSHTF, sides will shift.

now, nmewn:  patriot implies an allegiance to a "state" - is this a state of "mind" or a legal fiction?  that would vary with the mind, in my opinion.  I tend to "define patriot/ism" as someOne who is loyal to their perception of the nationstate they favour - most likely one they're resident in.  some version of national "history" is believed (in), and their actions follow on from there.

ideal or allegiance?  /shrug.  I'll not be interviewing each individual when the situation breaks down, as it obviously will.  nor will I expect anyone to be asking my opinion.

but, once again, for the record - I believe nationstates to be fictions created globally, with varying "rules" and "boundaries" - and I like to entertain the storyline that each has a particular "flavour" as a giant "social experiment" much like ant farms - everyone believes they're special, unique, better than, etc. etc. - but in the end, once those who pull the strings have grown weary of each social experiment, it's ant bomb time, rinse, repeat, infinity.

the "military" part of each ant farm does its job, and gets its rewards - it's a global, history kinda thang.

nmewn's picture

"now, nmewn: patriot implies an allegiance to a "state"

No, it does my opinion. Our patriots were not serving with any nation at the time of their fight. They were allied with an ideal and the people who held the same.

I've always wondered though...your curious spelling habits...where do you come from, originally?

Cathartes Aura's picture

ooooh, I'm so tempted to say Uranus, being the planetary archetype of genius, rebellion, anarchy, liberation. . . but I'll be honest and say I was born in amrka, came of mind in the UK, my heart belongs to scotland, my soul is universal.

sounds pretentious, sure, but beats a passport and a flag.

edit'd, since I forgot to respond beyond the final question, heh - my "spell-ing" is designed to re-mind me to unlearn what I've been taught - correctness - and to highlight the power of words, even as written language decays in2 txt thnk.

and "our patriots" - who is included in your group hug?  and which version of "history" are you embracing here?



nmewn's picture


At what age did you leave the US? the way, my wifes maiden name is Scottish ;-)

Cathartes Aura's picture

I left as soon as amrka said I was "legal" and could get the required document, the passport permission slip.

if your wife's maiden name is actually "Scottish" - I'd marry her and take her name!!  (joke, obviously)  did she keep her name? or double barrel it as the brits occasionally do?

for what it's worth, the UK/Scotland that I had experience of no longer exists, bar the unbelievably beautiful Scottish Highlands/Islands - and it's the West side that I favour, the ones with the rough accented distrust of pretty much everything, and a love o' the malt.  I'm forever grateful to have argued with the best, prior to theme pubs. . .

nmewn's picture

So you left as an "young adult"...thats what I was trying to find out.

"if your wife's maiden name is actually "Scottish"

She is...everything one would expect from a Scot-Aries...independent, strong, firey, opinionated, blonde, green-blue eyes, infuriating (at times), gregarious, great sense of humor, mother of my children...and she took my Irish name as her own...with some prodding ;-)

I do share your love of freedom and its responsiblities.

Cathartes Aura's picture

"Scots-Aries' eh!  what a coincidence, given that Uranus has moved into Aries, heralding massive cultural shifts towards independence. . . love the Aries folks, they know what they know, good luck shaking them out of their, err, stance  ^^

which Uranus will, particularly with the current long-scale lineup (I'll leave it at that). . . we're still in early days, first couple years of about eight, but it's gonna rock the world, key words being: truth vs. beliefs, individual power vs. institutions - middle 1800's are an echo worth noting. . . as is 41+/- years ago in amrkn history - Nixon, China, gold standard, Kissinger, ayup. . .

Scots-Irish family. . . well hell, that makes a lot of sense now *wink*

cough  pigheaded  cough

Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Hmmm how fascinating. Me, a freedom-loving, passionate fiery Irish women (actually born on March 17th) who continually exasperates her Scottish( Bruce Clan)/Scandinavian husband. He's banged his head against walls and laughed for thirty years over my antics but does admit life would be quite dull without me. I am blessed to have the respect of such a wonderful man. Nmewn and CA I know now why I like both of you, the fiery spirit comes through your posts. I guess I'm a sucker for it since my world is filled with too many MSM indoctrinated zombies that are fully shielded from my barbs. Thanks for all the entertainment!


tip e. canoe's picture

Nmewn and CA I know now why I like both of you,

me too.   particularly like when they both enter the ring, it's like reading a brother & sister go at it (let that be a compliment to you both).

nmewn's picture

I think Cat and I agree on more things than we let on to each the hopes that the other will concede first...its a Gaelic thing, more about the fight than anythiing else ;-)

Cathartes Aura's picture

as long as you stick to the "freedom and responsibilities" line, for everyone, irrespective of sex, I'm there!

I think our only real tussles came from the electioneering stuffs of last year, and the pile-ups with a vodka'd CrockettA trying to "gender" me, which will always get a response, as I refuse a box'd label.  (and I'm not even Aries, ha)

but yer a clever man, and appealing to my weakness for Scots/Irish folks will cost ya!