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Guest Post: America Loves Drone Strikes

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics blog,

This graph shows everything we need to know about the geopolitical reality of Predator Drones (coming soon to the skies of America to hunt down fugitives?).

The American public loves drone strikes:

BC2a006CAAEBSj2

The American public does not approve of the extrajudicial killing of American citizens. But for everyone else, it’s open season.

But everyone else — most particularly and significantly, the countries in the Muslim world — largely hates and resents drone strikes.

And it is the Muslim world that produces the radicalised extremists who commit acts like 9/11, 7/7, the Madrid bombings, and the Bali bombings.  With this outpouring of contempt for America’s drone strikes, many analysts are coming to believe that Obama’s drone policy is now effectively a recruitment tool for al-Qaeda, the Taliban and similar groups:

2_Hands

Indeed, evidence is beginning to coalesce to suggest exactly this. PressTV recently noted:

The expanding drone war in Yemen, which often kills civilians, does in fact cause blowback and help al-Qaeda recruitment – as attested to by numerous Yemen experts, investigative reporting on the ground, polling, testimony from Yemen activists, and the actual fact that recent bungled terrorist attacks aimed at the U.S. have cited such drone attacks as motivating factors.

 

After another September drone strike that killed 13 civilians, a local Yemeni activist told CNN, “I would not be surprised if a hundred tribesmen joined the lines of al-Qaeda as a result of the latest drone mistake. This part of Yemen takes revenge very seriously.”

 

“Our entire village is angry at the government and the Americans,” a Yemeni villager named Mohammed told the Post. “If the Americans are responsible, I would have no choice but to sympathize with al-Qaeda because al-Qaeda is fighting America.”

 

Many in the U.S. intelligence community also believe the drone war is contributing to the al-Qaeda presence in Yemen. Robert Grenier, who headed the CIA’s counter-terrorism center and was previously a CIA station chief in Pakistan, told The Guardian in June that he is “very concerned about the creation of a larger terrorist safe haven in Yemen.”

 

“We have gone a long way down the road of creating a situation where we are creating more enemies than we are removing from the battlefield,” he said regarding drones in Yemen.

Iona Craig reports that civilian casualties from drone strikes “have emboldened al-Qaeda” and cites the reaction to the 2009 U.S. cruise missile attack on the village of al-Majala in Yemen that killed more than 40 civilians (including 21 children):

That one bombing radicalized the entire area,” Abdul Gh ani al-Iryani, a Yemeni political analyst, said. “All the men and boys from those families and tribes will have joined [al-Qaeda] to fight.

And al-Qaeda’s presence and support in Yemen has grown, not shrunk since the start of the targeted killing program:

Meanwhile Yemen Central Security Force commander Brig. Gen. Yahya Saleh, nephew of ousted president Ali Abdullah Saleh, told Abdul-Ahad that al-Qaeda has more followers, money, guns and territory then they did a year and a half ago.

 

All at a time when Yemen is facing a “catastrophic” food crisis, with at least 267,000 children facing life-threatening levels of malnutrition. Hunger has doubled since 2009, and the number of displaced civilians is about 500,000 and rising.

 

As U.S. drones drop bombs on south Yemen villages and AQAP provides displaced civilians with “free electricity, food and water,” tribes in the area are becoming increasingly sympathetic to AQAP.

Let’s be intellectually honest. If a country engages in a military program that carries out strikes that kill hundreds of civilians - many of whom having no connection whatever with terrorism or radicalism - that country is going to become increasingly hated. People in the countries targeted - those who may have lost friends, or family members - are going to plot revenge, and take revenge. That’s just how war works. It infuriates. It radicalises. It instils hatred.

The reality of Obama’s drone program is to create new generations of America-hating radicalised individuals, who may well go on to be the next Osama bin Laden, the next Ayman al-Zawahiri, the next Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The reality for Obama’s drone program is that it is sowing the seeds for the next 9/11 - just as American intervention in the middle east sowed the seeds for the last, as Osama bin Laden readily admitted.

 


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Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:03 | Link to Comment MrX
MrX's picture

just your run of the mill violent country.

see here: http://vimeo.com/15056028

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:13 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Indeed, Mrx, double yup, since all of the major "terrorist" attacks appear to have been inside job, false flag attacks to start with. My conclusion is that everything this article says is right, and doubly right because that is what was really intended!

As far as I can tell, the American democratic republic is being deliberately destroyed by the people who control the people that control the government of the USA, and their intentions are to deliberately drive conditions which will enable them to start more genocidal wars, along with impose democidal martial law. The pattern demonstrated in this graph is not accidental. It displays the intentions of those who have been covertly creating and driving the entire "war on terror" to get going, and then become automatically amplified.

Anyone who gets their "news" from watching American mass media has been so systematically brainwashed for so long that it is practically impossible for them to understand what has happened to them, or to their country.

As always, follow the money, and follow the money to ITS SOURCE, to understand what the so-called "war on terror" is really about, and who was really behind making it happen, primarily through staging false flag "terrorist" attacks.

My view is that those covert agents, working in covert cooperation with governments, that made the original false flag attacks, intended to create more and more "terrorists," by attacking people that actually had nothing to do with the original "terrorist" events.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:21 | Link to Comment greased up deaf guy
greased up deaf guy's picture

you dropped a bomb on me... baby...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lkdqoLt44

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:24 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

I want to blow you, blow you, blow you, blow you up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o9AZECUn8g

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 04:59 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

"The expanding drone war in Yemen, which often kills civilians, does in fact cause blowback and help al-Qaeda recruitment – as attested to by numerous Yemen experts, investigative reporting on the ground, polling, testimony from Yemen activists, and the actual fact that recent bungled terrorist attacks aimed at the U.S. have cited such drone attacks as motivating factors."

Yes but in war they have to be able to strike you.  They can recruit all they want but they have to arm, transport, and carry out operations.  

How?

It's like the Tea Party threatening to remove congressmen and the president from office.  How did that work out?  

The Zionist just find another way to cheat.  As long as the Zionist controls the media and election cheating methods, the Tea Party never stood a chance.  No media, no reporting on the election fraud.

I hate Zionism as much as any ZH but when it comes to fighting and executing a war you people have a huge blind spot.  As long as the high IQ gonium are working with the Zionist these people will never win anything.  As long as the Zionist have central banks these people do not stand a chance.

If they were smart they would kill Zionism at its source, the central bank, and forget the terrorism tactics.  This is such a waste of time for them, it will never do anything but get people killed.

If these people want to kill the Zionist thugs they have to understand that the ONLY way is to challenge the central banks with money backed by metals.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:37 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

Zionism is like a head start school for the sand niggers !   Hey, Chris Hedges, go to Syria and spout your socialist drivel ! LOL 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:28 | Link to Comment goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

- the American public loves drone strikes

So they say. About as accurate as the employment statistics.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:33 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

I would have conducted the Iraq war with 100% drones and missles and piloted aircraft .... not one foot on the ground to be blown off by an IED .... leadership targets, infrastructure, high rise buildings and luxury hotels, airports (deny them air service and comfort and communication) .... yeah, airstrikes and drones !

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:19 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

Every time we get a new, effective weapon .... it get's an anal exam !  The Aircraft carrier, the A-bomb, the ICBM .... all were criticized .... THEN THEY WERE COPIED AND IMITATED !

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

I doubt that your particular strain of myopia has any effective cure, but I suggest you that you take a healthy dose of this:

http://livingunderdrones.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Stanford_NYU_LIV...

You should at least be scratching your head, wondering why so many influential people who once supported Obama have turned against him. It's because Obama is FIVE times as effective at making enemies for the U.S. as GWB ever was.

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:21 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

While in the short to medium term the drone strikes may result in increased support for terrorist groups, as long as the drones are using depleted uranium tipped weapons, in the long run the affected areas will be depopulated. Short Term pain for long term gain, yo!

Whether controlled depopulation of muslims is intentional or not, and whether it is beneficial or not, I have no idea.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

 

And it is the Muslim world that produces the radicalised extremists who commit acts like 9/11, 7/7,...

 

So I had to stop reading there and post this instead.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:30 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Doc, one merely needs to rearrange the words just a bit:

 

And it is in the Muslim world that the producers of false flag terror attacks like 9/11, 7/7 find their radicalized extremist patsies to commit the acts...

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:25 | Link to Comment BlackVoid
BlackVoid's picture

"The reality of Obama’s drone program is to create new generations of America-hating radicalised individuals, who may well go on to be the next Osama bin Laden, the next Ayman al-Zawahiri, the next Abu Musab al-Zarqawi"

And that is exactly the goal. An enemy (with no nuclear weapons) is needed to go war against.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 03:37 | Link to Comment Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

No nuclear weapons - yet but it might be wise to remember that there's a Black Market for everything, and a price for everything.

"They" don't even need a "genuine" device - a "dirty bomb" would be just as effective in terms of cost to the target, and depending on their choice of nuclide, maybe even moreso, for example, there have been plenty of "accidents" involving 60Co in badly-run medical and industrial irradiation facilities - and such facilities contain many TBq of this medium half-life, high energy gamma nuclide. Not quite the infamous "Cobalt Bomb", but a very close second in terms of localised lethality, and prohibitive clean-up costs.

In reality "they" don't even need a "bomb" as such, since the chloride salt is quite water soluble, and could in principle be "distributed" by aerial spraying (which will be particularly interesting for those in the Chem-Trail business) - "they" would only need a few TBq of 60CoCl2 in solution to really make life interesting for any major metropolitan city.

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 06:25 | Link to Comment andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

They would need a drone to do the spraying because the gamma rays from that much 60Co would kill a sprayer pilot in 10 minutes.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:42 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

My Jews are installing a "Neutron Bomb Dome" to neutralize Muslim filth .... so they can disperse rapidly after launching a few nukes .... think bold, my Jews .... outsmart the heathen, socialist beast .... let him bleed out into his own feces !  Shalom !

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 05:19 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Every day when I wake up, I am pretty sure that it's now crystal clear to everybody that the object of all these domestic and foreign exercises in counter-intuitive policy are designed to create enemies of Merika and Merikans.

But then, I remember that my brethern back in the fallen lands have been under sustained psychological and psychic attack for so long now that nothing can be assumed - about their memory, nor their perceptions of reality.

So, every day, it's necessary to start right back from square one, before advancing to any further item of discussion:

sionist racial-hegemonists have a program of long standing to pit the peoples of East and West against each other, in a false conflict engendered by a cabal of millenialist madmen who will stop at nothing to achieve their ends.

The drone campaign is this program in action. There's nothing else going on.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:47 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Yea i think I heard a speech by some dude by the name of Eisenhower, that pretty much broke this shit down in a way even this redneck could comprende...

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 03:14 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

"...understand what ... "WAR AND TERROR" is really about..."

 

Go have a long toke on some of that fine BCBud and meditate for awhile on the the differeence between the two words.

Just like "War AND Drugs".

I hope that fixed it for ya RM.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:16 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

I like to count all the amputees in the Lagos market !

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:53 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Destabilization of a country is a top level goal, even if they are your friend. Any country at peace will start to think about developing their own resources, that cannot be allowed to happen.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:27 | Link to Comment 13thWarrior
13thWarrior's picture

There is a new ruling state coming, for it to begin US Republic must be taken off pedastal. To give you a hint, it is the most favored country of US politicians, bankers, and criminals.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:16 | Link to Comment Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Who will Obummer appoint as Drone Czar? Kissinger? Hilary?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:38 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Billy Mitchell

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell_(electronic_sports_player)

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:22 | Link to Comment Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Americans:

80% cannot multiply 13x75 long hand;

75% cannot find Iowa on a USA map;

75% cannot find Germany on a European map;

75% do not know that we fought Germany in WWII.

 

I'm not surprised of anything the polls show anymore.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:15 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

They have been so dumbed down by public 'education', t.v., keeping up with the Jones consumerism, and a number of other things going back 100 years - - - that you gotta wonder if there is that small spark of independence and love of freedom left in Americans at all. Or now does it come down to bread & circuses and cheering on the Legions as they plunder and slaughter around the world ?  Another empire run by power mad psychopaths and a stupid population of sheep who cannot think for themselves.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 06:19 | Link to Comment Acet
Acet's picture

I think they start ignorant (as we all do) but never come out of it.

In a sense, the American education system is barelly above 3rd world in quality (reminds me of my high-school colleague 20 years ago who had barelly-above-pass grades back in Portugal but in his one year as exchange student in the US got the maximum grade in almost everything). Then there is the almost constant brainwashing and self-centered nationalistic narcisism ("American is the best country in the World, so I'm the best 'cause I'm American") pushed on by mass media and egged on by politicians (and who can blame them - if people get happy on masturbatory nationalism, why spoil it?).

By the way, nice coin. Would have a couple of those, if it wasn't for an unfortunate boating accident in a loch.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:48 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

When all the Jewish owned cruise ships gather like Noah's Arks .... to help disperse Jews .... a nuclear strike is near .... first a neutron border douche .... then the nukes !  Shalom !

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Jesus Flippin' Christ ~ I'm really looking forward to the next time I make a comment that it's mathematically ODD that there are so many jws in banking & power nodes of society when they represent only 1% of the population & being called 'anti-semitic' for that observation by the conclave of ZH deacons... [rolls eyes] 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:24 | Link to Comment Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

ZH Deacons? We have those? Why wasn't I at least nominated, if not made Deacon CEO?

I think most of us recognize that the names Bernanke, Geithner, Goldman, Warburg, Rothschild, etc have--ahem--Ashkenazi associations. If you're getting harassed for noting that there are so many juice in the banking cartels, it's probably not for pointing out the obvious. More likely, it's because people expect that what you're really saying is "The bankstas that oppress us are all Juice! So let's kill all the Juice and our problems are solved."

I don't think that's what your saying, but people are going to hear it that way. So let's be blunt: We know about Khazars, we know about Ashkenazi, we know about Sephardi, etc. But we also know Juiciness, per se, is not the problem. These people got into the moneylending business centuries ago for reasons relating to property laws (see Shylock in Merchant of Venice).

We would all like to see a giant meteorite strike Wall Street and the Bilderberg Hotel drop into a vast sinkhole, etc. What we don't want to see is some cab driver named Levine dragged out of his cab and beaten to death by a mob because "I lost my job and its da Joooos did it!"

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:29 | Link to Comment SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

+1

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I've elucidated my POV on the subject many times... Cabby Levine is safe [& awful quiet ~ I might add]...

~~~

One of the things that has struck me [in my window of life], has been that my particular 'gender', 'race', 'caste position', has had a bright spotlight shined upon it [for as long as I can remember], for all the 'SOCIAL INJUSTICES' that were a plague upon society [which happened IN THE PAST ~ & of which I was not a part of]...

My story is:

- The mix of kids I grew up with & played with was literally about 50%-50% black~white [there were no race issues]

- I've always respected women

- Jews I nevr really thought about one way or another [until I started understanding the 'economic crisis']

So ~ I am not inherently bias towards anything... But what ANNOYS me is that, because I belong to a specific demographic, I EXACTLY fit the profile of someone who needs to be punished... In many ways ~ I AM Cabby Levine...

I will acknowledge that there still remains a lot of bigotry & hatred that spew forth from others who fall into my demographic... Will Cabby Levine do the same?...

Lastly ~ Bigotry... IMO... Is a 'misdemeanor' when compared to forced slavery...

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:22 | Link to Comment SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

Interesting imagination, but incorrect.  When the bombs come, those of aristocratic nobility will have already been moved to safety.  The rest are on their own.  The more dead, the better as it will play nicely into the resulting media spin.  There is nothing new under the sun, or same as it ever was....

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:57 | Link to Comment Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

Point 1) iPads have calculators built into them.

Point 2) Iowa only matters during elections, just like Ohio.

Point 3) Germany only matters if the Kardashians are there.

Point 4) Germany makes good cars. So does Japan, and Ferarris are nice, too.

Though I am being exceedingly sarcastic, I have met far too many oxygen thieves like this.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Iowa only matters during elections, just like Ohio.

I beg to differ. How could we Amurikans stay so fat and diabetic without plenty of High Fructose Iowa Syrup?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 03:44 | Link to Comment Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

For anyone over 50, 13 x 75 should be relatively easy mental calculation, seeng as it's 13 x 100 (=1300) - 1/4 x 1300 (=325).

But for many in even this "effectively educated" cohort, it isn't.

Which makes one worry (or at least should)

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:49 | Link to Comment Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

The way we were taught was to do 10 x 75 = 750, then 3 x 75 = 225, then add 750 and 225 = 975. Calculation occurs instantly when you have done it all your life this way. Calculators? Not always handy, but I love my old HP 11C.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:38 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

"The Frederick Post Company" nice little 5 inch slide rule math, log tables, trig, square roots, cube roots and a ruler.  Not many calculators or apps can measure.  i keep it handy and use it, and others, when every I need to fully reflect on what calculations I am doing.  A lot of people do not know what they are needing to do so spend a lot of time second guessing themselves.  

i am going to get my grand children using a sliderule if it kills me 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:17 | Link to Comment Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

I still pull out my K & E slipstick occasionally. I tried showing how to use it to a 16 year old currently getting A's in Calculus. It didn't go well.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:49 | Link to Comment petolo
petolo's picture

I still have an old dial telephone which kids which kids find mystifying. Anything without buttons or touch-face is considered a barbaric relic and unusable.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:51 | Link to Comment taraxias
taraxias's picture

Oh yeah, 1/4 X 1,300, exceedingly easy. Good luck with that.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:07 | Link to Comment Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

1/4 X 1,300 is easy if you have a calculator.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment nicxios
nicxios's picture

Not hard. Just halve 1,300, then halve that.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:05 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

 

Americans:

80% cannot multiply 13x75 long hand;

In my head, 75 tens is 750. 75 times three is 225. So 975.

75% cannot find Iowa on a USA map;

Been to Iowa several times. There's no good reason to bother putting it on a map.

75% cannot find Germany on a European map;

Just be glad it's not the entire European map.

75% do not know that we fought Germany in WWII.

Yeah, but I'm not sure who won that one. The German army was apparently defeated, but the leaders and their kids seem to still be out there running things in at least two countries that didn't get along so well back in the 40s.

I'm not surprised of anything the polls show anymore.

Poll taking is now a form of creative writing.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:40 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

the Russians beat the German Army.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 12:41 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

hitler beat the german army....fixed it for ya.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Hopefully a drone will fall on the building where everyone of those fucking cockroach politicians are gathered tomorrow night for the state of the unions!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:14 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

Niggers running wild on Spring Break .... the video ?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:03 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Your vituperative, inane, nearly inchoate spew of cobbled-together letters would be more welcomed by their absence.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:12 | Link to Comment Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Spoken like a true JCL guy. Shoulda said COBOL'ed together though.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:39 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Don't get SASsy with me!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

OK, I'll ABEND the rules this one time.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:04 | Link to Comment Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

Skynet...

 

Coming to you soon....

 

if you like it or not

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:21 | Link to Comment Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Drones will fix the economy

Do the numbers

A drone for every gun owner, tax evader, pot smoker, end the feder, truther, birther.....

Think of the jobs that will create. Not to mention the operators, technicans and post strike cleanup

Unless of course they outsource

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:09 | Link to Comment tickhound
tickhound's picture

 

 

I pledge allegiance to the DIA and the RoboCops of America

and as for the public, on which it scans

Scrutinization, under Skynet, invisible

for security and hospice to all those in the club.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:35 | Link to Comment jayman21
jayman21's picture

This has to be more about controlling the police force and keeping control.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:03 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

When their American children become collateral damage, as has already been the case abroad, in a domestic drone strike, only then will Americans realize the monster they let through the front door.

Sadly, by then, it will be too late.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:34 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

And people wonder how the Nazis came to enjoy the co-operation, and mobilisation, of an entire country...

And why it was that the Resistance had to stay underground...

And why it is that even as recently as 2 years ago, decades after WW2, I heard a (European) whisper "Never trust a German"...

I wonder how many American citizens are prepared to become caricatured as The Oppressor, The Enemy (or The Great Satan?)...

I wonder how many Americans have studied history and of those, how many actively oppose this new legacy they are earning, through their indifference.

At a certain point, people begin to conflate the values of a nation's citizens with those of its government.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

And what you say speaks loudly as to why it would be suicide to become and ex-pat somewhere.  At some point when shit really comes down it would become open season on Mericans- revenge.

"At a certain point, people begin to conflate the values of a nation's citizens with those of its government."

According to the poll it's a straight up mapping.  Kind of hard to distance yourself from a crowd so large.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Sorry but no. So dying by drone counts but dying in some more conventional way while waging the war on terror does not? Yeah, no, that's a double standard. Americans (and they are not alone) have no problem sending their countryment to die "for our freedoms". And if they die by friendly fire? Oh well, we'll call them martyrs; Forward in the war on terror!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:45 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

"Friendly fire" has to be one of the most Orwellian phrases I have ever heard.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:26 | Link to Comment duo
duo's picture

Perhaps Obama should watch that "The Patriot" movie with Mel Gibson.  He was all cool and non-violent until the Redcoats burned down his house and killed his kid.

As the Chinese say, "when setting out on the road to revenge, dig two graves".

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:07 | Link to Comment nicoacademia
nicoacademia's picture

and someone will say the US government plotted the next 9/11....so on and so forth.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:26 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Yep.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

America is full of idiots. And who cares if the majority approves... doesn't mean it's alright.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:17 | Link to Comment Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

"The masses are asses."

- Not Karl Rove

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_G._Halpine

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

This is the same stupid country that elected Obama to the White House! Never in my life whould I vote for that man to hold any public office.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

This is Rush and RINO/GOP party bait.  2012 was rigged with massive vote fraud.  2008 probably was too.  Sadly the GOP did not have the guts to speak up because the RINOs rigged it for Romney to beat Santorum.   He stole it in 2012 and probably 2008 as well.

All elections in the uSA are now rigged.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:27 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Now rigged? Name a time when they weren't rigged.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:41 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting what they are going to have for dinner (I think Churchill said that).  Elections are bought by whomever can give away the most stuff to the most people.  ...and of course those who count the votes.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 08:03 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

"Communism is two North Koreans and a dog .... deciding what's for dinner !" .... Monedas  1929

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

So, you're a fucking Santorum supporter?

"Stole" the elections, that's a knee-slapper!

You're suck a fucking Party Pussy!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:08 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

"Never in my life whould I vote for that man to hold any public office."

Who's to say with any certainty that a majority did?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment nothing can go wrogn
nothing can go wrogn's picture

"The public sucks. Fuck hope. How's that for a campaign slogan?" ~George Carlin

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

NPR, Obama and Hillary sanitized the War on Terror for every knothead Liberal from sea to shining sea. It's been personal up close look at mass brain washing, of my closest friends!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

And we know that this doesn't happen for the Conservatives, right?

Party Pussies are FUCKING STUPID fuckers- FUCKING PERIOD!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:12 | Link to Comment element115
element115's picture

MQ9FTMFW

They hate us for our freedom. LOL

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:19 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There was a time in my youth that I actually thought we were the good guys. This country is just fucking sick, and it gets sicker with each passing day.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Doc, I'm quite sure you have lots of company.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

I'm a bit nonplussed by the trend.  I grew up thinking communism was the enemy.  I was actual sent to fight the spread of communism (china-supported) at age 19.  With real guns.  Next thing I knew, the elites had decided communism was fine as long as it offered it laborers to the West for small cash.  Then, off in happy civilian life, I read about the wonders of "Charly Wilson's War," and it all sounded quiet heroic, with Mujahadin boldly blitzing the Russkies with our ground-to-air missile.  So now the Muj are bad, the commies are fine, and the Hamptons just keep on turning 8,000 sq ft houses into tear-downs.   Through the entire sequence SF, Chicago, Boston, and NYC thrive, getting bailed out (Cont.Illinois, NYC itself, Wall Street, etc.), safe.  What's a person to make of all this?  I'll tell you what: There's a large crowd that never went to any of these wars, never sent its kids to any front lines, financed the wars or profited via state taxes on war production to fund their jobs, and there's a lesson to teach your children.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We were always at war with EastAsia. .

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:49 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Next thing I knew, the elites had decided communism was fine as long as it offered it laborers to the West for small cash."

Sorry to ruin your narrative - and I do appreciate the sentiment - but it is now known that some major American firms such as Ford Motor Company helped with Russian modernization efforts circa the 1930s. Similar things happened with Germany's industrial modernization under the Nazis. Not to mention the role of American industrialists (acting as private individuals) and financiers in global communism and fascism.

The truth shall set you free.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:37 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

Might I recommend "Severance", an excellent, barely-noticed movie that should be seen by all. Satire, NOT comedy, so be prepared.

Orientation Video: "That's reliability. That's Palisade. As I speak, our team of dedicated individuals are touring Eastern Europe, bringing the Palisade message to you. They couldn't be more excited."
Jill: "Richard, why are all the actors in this video white?"
...
Orientation Video: "...Freedom, democracy, justice. With Palisade Defence, we'll win the war on terror."
...
Richard: "It's a public company. Members of both our governments are on the board. They're not going to do anything immoral!"

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:30 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Speak it loudly!

ALWAYS ask: if such-and-suck is so bad of a system then why should we be afraid of it taking over (over good ones)?  Of course BAD systems cannot!  But, it's the hobgoblin that they keep running across the screen.  I recall a story by some African man who was repeatedly rounded up because he was outspoken critic of his government; the man spend MANY years in prison; when he finally managed to get free he traveled  to the US and was appalled at how people we giving up their freedoms- he said that much of the world looked at the US as the example, and that by all these actions of wars etc that the US was losing its standing; the guy was really sad about it (it was, after all, why he spent so many years in prison- fighting to obtain rights similar to [what was once in] the US).

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:25 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Well Dr - it took a helluva lot of us a long time to finally get a clue about what's really been going on with our country. For me, this only took place within the last 5 years - sad to say. This tyranny may be among the most sophisticated in terms of propaganda in history. Talk to most Americans about these subjects and it seems you are met with a blank look of incomprehension or knee jerk anger. The programming runs very deep and starts with that nice meaning teacher lady in grade school.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 05:47 | Link to Comment PhilofOz
PhilofOz's picture

I take solace in the likelihood that one day these very same machines will be turned back on that .001% that are responsible for so much war and misery on the planet. It is the one weapon that will be so sophisticated that it will find them all, anytime, anywhere.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 05:57 | Link to Comment PhilofOz
PhilofOz's picture

Unfortunately, before that day arrives and there is a tipping point where the masses realize just who is responsible for their suffering, these things will be killing thousands of innocents in countries such as the USA. 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 06:49 | Link to Comment Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

I know what you mean.  Here I am stuck between Peace Prize winning Dronemasters on the one hand, and a bunch of balding middle aged angry white guys boasting on their domestic firepower and all the ammo they've stacked in preparation for the roving Zombie hordes they cannot wait to start killing.

No place left for a decent, rational man.  That's why I've got 3000 acres of land and I don't want to see either Obama or anyone from Zerohedge.  I don't want to see anybody, much less shoot them.  A pox on both your houses.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:33 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, most would think that my thinking is extremist, yet I see the majority (the "two sides") as being MASSIVELY extreme!

Clowns to the left of me jokers to the right...

Create the world you want (work for it).  Start in your own backyard.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:17 | Link to Comment Obama4Ever
Obama4Ever's picture

Wait, I'm confused... I thought WTC7 was brought down by an act of controlled demolition on 9/11... and so didn't that call into question who was responsible for the whole "attack"? And who knew about it?

And now you get articles like this that on the one hand make a good point (Drone strikes bad!). Can't we have an article that doesn't reiterate falsehoods?

It's like an article that criticizes the status quo, then is pro-democracy. WAIT! Democracy is tyranny by the majority. Democracy == bad. Republic == good!

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:01 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

Democracy == bad. Republic == good!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:19 | Link to Comment mpyre
mpyre's picture

The Assassin-in-Chief loves the way this video-game killing feeds right into the twitter/twater social media mentality of his main constituency...he kills with one hand and shreds the constitution with the other.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:44 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

"You know the Oval Office always thought I was going to have like real cool phones and stuff,” Obama said last night, “You know, we can’t get our phones to work!  I’m like ‘come on guys, I’m the president of the United States.’  Where’s the fancy buttons and stuff, and the big screen comes up? It doesn’t happen.'"

- Obama, April 2011, on White House technology

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:00 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

He wants a digital Choom-mobile?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

Not so sure about that - I think the official federal position is - STILL - that choom is deserving of a nice long stint in the pokey. Keeps the police & prison unions happy and dangerous stoners from wandering out in traffic, so you know, it's a win-win.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:24 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Can we please stop repeating the bullshit meme that 9/11 was perpretrated by radicalized Muslims who hate us for all the bad things the US does overseas.

9/11 was a false flag attack pure and simple.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I don't know why John can't get past that meme, maybe he wants to be taken seriously with the cool crowd.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:33 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Almost zero cred dismissing 9/11.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:44 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

The M.I.E.seeds for the next 9-11 type event are already sown.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:31 | Link to Comment a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Come on.  You're just jealous of that awesome 270-degree full-speed descending corksrew turn.  Pulled off by a guy from a cave. With a few dozen hours of flight experience.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:52 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"radicalized Muslims who hate us for all the bad things the US does overseas."

That part is entirely true, and in some ways justified.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:35 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Folks need to go back to the early 1900s and see what the US was doing to Muslims THEN.  (check out the Spanish-American war in the Philippines; check out what a US President was saying about folks there- it would make Freddie and Trav proud!)  To sum up: this shit has been going on a LOT longer that nearly everyone understands.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:53 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Put ConAziz in bed with SmokeyQuinn and all the other 9/11MORONS who the TDs post on ZH.

9/11: A Conspiracy Theory

http://www.corbettreport.com/911-a-conspiracy-theory/

9-11 Is the Litmus Test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21pPpYw_axQ


They will sooner or later wake up to the in-your-face facts and that WW III started on September 11, 2001 with their NEW Pearl Harbor!

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

I think people aren't getting your point... (I gave you an up-arrow, but only after hitting one of the links to see which side of the fence you were referring to)

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 09:44 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

There is only one possible area where opinions may differ regarding 911, and that is only whether the two towers could have their integrity compromised by the collision and subsequent fire resulting from the impact of the two commercial airliners, and in the case of WTC7, whether the peculiar structure of that building could be compromised by the debris from the collapse of the North Tower and the subsequent unattended fire fed by office fixtures and furniture, plus the fuel from emergency generators and the Con Edison substation.

The 1500 odd members of ae911 believe the collapse of the three buildings was unlikely or impossible as a result of the plane impact and fire. A vastly greater number of professional architects, engineers and material scientists, numbering in the tens of thousands, and including those who designed and engineered the structures, believe it was completely possible and even exactly how one might guess such buildings would react to the plane impact and fires. Not even a first year physics student would question whether or not fires burned high enough to diminish the structural integrity and load carrying ability of the three buildings. One can easily look up the graph of steel strength as a function of time and temperature, calculate the supported load, and determine the only possible outcome. A second year student can calculate the rate of expected collapse based on floor weight and momentum, and find the calculations are well within the observed rate of fall. Even a blacksmith, if you can still find one, can tell you that steel can be manipulated at temperatures far less than its melting point.

The remainder of the so-called “proof”, such as missiles, NORAD standing down, incompetent pilots, miracle passports (among hundreds of thousands of other non-burned artifacts from building inhabitants and airplane passengers), the BBC report, good-bye phone calls, quote mined recording snippets, nanothermite residue, “freefall” speed, etc., are so bogus that they do not warrant any additional investigation whatsoever. These latter are the favorites of gullible moonbats and whackjobs who know nothing but have an insatiable need to believe the worst.

As for motivation by “insiders”, wars could have been waged regardless of public sentiment, just like the first Gulf War under Bush I. Additionally, the degree of competence required to pull off a controlled demolition which would have required somewhere on the order of 200,000 man hours to prepare is well beyond the capabilities of even the most accomplished of the elite, unless some think them superhuman.

In the end, people will agree to disagree, with the majority of those with working knowledge siding with the official story of missed opportunities, incompetence, turf battles and a total lack of preparation. If there is any “cover-up”, it is covering up the incompetence and missed signals on the part of those in positions of authority.

Just as those who accept the official version must question their biases, so must those who champion one of the “false flag” versions. For those who will accuse me of being some “psy-op” or paid shill, fuck off. Your paranoia is showing.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 11:34 | Link to Comment psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"A vastly greater number of professional architects, engineers and material scientists, numbering in the tens of thousands, and including those who designed and engineered the structures, believe it was completely possible and even exactly how one might guess such buildings would react to the plane impact and fires."

Link to tens of thousands?

You are a liar, plain and simple.  Only a tiny handful of engineers are willing to publicly defend the government's 9/11 story; all of whom have serious conflicts of interest.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"Not even a first year physics student would question whether or not fires burned high enough to diminish the structural integrity and load carrying ability of the three buildings. One can easily look up the graph of steel strength as a function of time and temperature, calculate the supported load, and determine the only possible outcome."

Nope.  

NIST's physical paint and microstructure tests of the steel samples they collected from WTC impact and fire regions showed fire-induced temperatures of no hotter than 250 C.  There is no weakening of steel at 250 C, fireproofing or no.  Steel temps of ~250 C are also what would be expected from short-lived, diffuse office fires fueled by kerosene (i.e., jet fuel) and office contents.  NIST’s own simulated office fire tests provide further evidence that this (low steel temperatures) would have been the case.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Re WTC7, the NIST report provides an explanation that includes induced thermal expansion, particularly of Column 79, as a result of temperatures of approximately 400 degrees C (752 C), which resulted in a push of the girder spanning Columns 79 to 44 and leading to the collapse of the 13th floor, buckling of Column 79 between Floors 5-14, leading to the observed kink in the east penthouse as the upper sections of Column 79 shifted.  Coupled with structural damage that occured when debris from the north tower fell, the integrity of the structure was fatally compromised.

In addition, the office fires were not "short-lived", unless you consider several hours without working sprinkling systems or attention by fire brigades short-lived.  The fires started after the building was struck by debris from the tumbling north tower.  The collapse occurred at 17:20.

No matter.  Even if you dispute the NIST findings, you need to explain why "insiders" would need to bring down WTC7 almost seven hous after the north tower collapsed.  Wasn't 220 floors enough?  Why the overkill?  "Secret documents" perhaps?  Only copies on the face of the Earth?  For most people, though clearly not everyone, even a conspiracy has to make some sense.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"WTC7, the NIST report provides an explanation that includes induced thermal expansion, particularly of Column 79, as a result of temperatures of approximately 400 degrees C (752 C), which resulted in a push of the girder spanning Columns 79 to 44 and leading to the collapse of the 13th floor, buckling of Column 79 between Floors 5-14, leading to the observed kink in the east penthouse as the upper sections of Column 79 shifted. Coupled with strctural damage that occured when debris from the north tower fell, the integrity of the structure was fatally compromised."

NIST of course offers no evidence for this.  Regardless, my comments regarding steel temperatures reached were in reference to the towers, not WTC7.

"In addition, the ofice fires were not 'short-lived', unless you consider several hours without working sprinkling systems or attention by fire brigades short-lived. The fires started after the building was struck by debris from the tumbling north tower."

I was referring to the towers.  That's the NIST report I was referring to.  The one where NIST collected all sorts of physical evidence (e.g., perimeter and core columns from impact and fire areas) and conducted numerous tests (e.g., performance of floor truss sections, performance of fireproofing), then buried the results under thousands of pages, ignoring the physical evidence and the conclusions of their physical tests, and concocted a black box computer model that nobody is allowed to examine that spits out the conclusion the administration was expecting.  It was a process driven by political expediancy, not science.  This is government we're dealing with after all.

NIST's explanation for WTC7 was even more ludicrous.  See:

http://www.ae911truth.org/news/57-news-releases-by-others/426-freefall-and-building-7-on-911.html

We know that the falling section of Building 7 did not crush the lower section of the building because the top section of Building 7 fell at freefall. It didn't just fall at something close to freefall. It fell for about 2.5 seconds at a rate that was indistinguishable from freefall. If the falling section of the building had crushed the lower section, the lower section would have pushed back with an equal but opposite force. But that would have slowed the fall. Since the fall was not slowed in the slightest, we can conclude that the force of interaction was zero... in both directions.

 

<snip>

 

NIST claims that the collapse of their one key column led to a progressive collapse of the entire interior of the building leaving only a hollow shell. The collapse of the building, seen in numerous videos, is described by NIST as the collapse of the "facade," the hollow shell. They have no evidence for this scenario, however, and a great deal of evidence contradicts it. After the collapse of the east penthouse there is no visible distortion of the walls and only a few windows are broken at this time. Had the failure of interior columns propagated throughout the interior of the building, as asserted by NIST, it would surely have propagated to the much closer exterior walls and distorted or collapsed them. (Major crumpling of the exterior walls, by the way, is exactly what is shown in the animations produced by NIST's computer simulation of the collapse.) But the actual videos of the building show that the exterior remained rigid during this early period. At the onset of collapse you can see in the videos that the building suddenly goes limp, like a dying person giving up the ghost. The limpness of the freefalling structure highlights by contrast the earlier rigidity.

 

Furthermore, there are huge pyroclastic flows of dust, resembling a volcanic eruption, that poured into the streets following the final collapse of the building. If what we saw was only the collapse of the facade, why was the pyroclastic flow not triggered earlier when NIST claims the collapse of the much more voluminous interior occurred? And why did the west penthouse remain to fall with the visible exterior of the building? Its supporting structure clearly remained to the very end and was "taken out" along with the rest of the building support all at once. NIST is scrambling to find a plausible scenario that will allow it to escape the consequences of what is plainly visible. (If you have not seen the collapse of Building 7, find it on YouTube and watch for yourself. For most people simply watching it collapse is all it takes. Most people are not stupid. Most people can recognize the difference between a demolition and a natural building collapse with nothing more being said. If you have never seen the collapse of Building 7 you might also stop and ask yourself why the mainstream media did not repeatedly show you this most bizarre event as it did the Twin Towers.)

 

After the east penthouse collapsed, several seconds elapsed, then the west penthouse began to collapse, at nearly the same time the roofline of the building developed a kink near the center, then all support across the entire width of the building was suddenly removed, a vertical swath of windows under the west penthouse were simultaneously blown out, the building suddenly went limp, and (within a fraction of a second) it transitioned from full support to freefall.

 

I am not using the term "freefall" loosely here. I used a video analysis tool to carefully measure the velocity profile of the falling building using CBS video footage from a fixed camera aimed almost squarely at the north wall. A video detailing this measurement is available at YouTube/user/ae911truth. I calibrated my measurements with the heights of two points in the building provided in the NIST Building 7 report released in August 2008, so I know the picture scale is good. My measurements indicate that with sudden onset the building underwent approximately 2.5 seconds of literal freefall. This is equivalent to approximately 8 stories of fall in which the falling section of the building encountered zero resistance. For an additional 8 stories it encountered minimal resistance, during which it continued to accelerate, but at a rate less than freefall. Only beyond those 16 stories of drop did the falling section of the building interact significantly with the underlying structure and decelerate.

 

Freefall is an embarrassment to the official story, because freefall is impossible for a naturally collapsing building. In a natural collapse there would be an interaction between the falling and the stationary sections of the building. This interaction would cause crushing of both sections and slowing of the falling section. I have done measurements on several known demolitions, using similar software tools, and found that they typically fall with accelerations considerably less than freefall. Building 7 was not only demolished, it was demolished with tremendous overkill.

 

Freefall was so embarrassing to NIST that in the August 2008 draft release for public comment of their final report, the fact of freefall was denied and crudely covered up with the assertion that the collapse took 40% longer than "freefall time." They asserted that the actual collapse, down to the level of the 29th floor, took 5.4 seconds whereas freefall would have taken only 3.9 seconds. They arrived at their figures with only two data points: the time when the roofline reached the level of the 29th floor and an artificially early start time several seconds prior to the beginning of the obvious, sudden onset of freefall. They started their clock at a time between the collapses of the east and west penthouses when the building was not moving. They claimed they saw a change in a "single pixel" triggering what they asserted was the onset of collapse, but anyone who has worked with the actual videos will recognize that the edge artifacts in the image of the building make this an unrealistic standard. Furthermore, even if there was a tiny motion of the building at that point, it continued to stand essentially motionless for several more seconds before the dramatic onset of freefall collapse. The fact of a cover up in NIST's measurement is underlined in that the formula they point to as the basis for their calculation of "freefall time" is valid only under conditions of constant acceleration. They applied that equation to a situation that was far from uniform acceleration. Instead, the building remained essentially at rest for several seconds, then plunged into freefall, then slowed to a lesser acceleration. Their analysis demonstrates either gross incompetence or a crude attempt at a cover up. The scientists at NIST are clearly not incompetent, so the only reasonable conclusion is to interpret this as part of a cover up. (It is important to stand back occasionally and recognize the context of these events. This was not just a cover-up of an embarrassing fact. It was a cover-up of facts in the murder of nearly 3000 people and part of a justification for a war in which well over a million people have since been killed.)

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

If you are going to stand by your "inside job" belief, then go ahead and decide if it was Cheney or Mossad or MI6 or CIA/NSA or Rockefeller/Rothschild or Bilderberger/Bohemian Grove and go try to take them out.  It seems sort of pointless to have all that anger and resentment, and be so absolutely certain of the guilt, and not do a damn thing about it.  That sounds kind of impotent.  I suppose, though, that those who have elevated the accused conspirators to such a level that the culprits could orchestrate everything from hijacked planes hitting precise floors to demolition charges to doing the entire operation with a strict kill quota (rather than having the two towers do a far more spectacular fall toward the Hudson and East Rivers respectively), well, they would seem to be people of whom folks should be afraid.  Other people know nobody on this planet is that skilled, and that the entire sad episode resulted from incompetence, bad luck, lack of imagination, lack of planning, and turf battles.

Good luck in you crusade.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 14:58 | Link to Comment psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"If you are going to stand by your 'inside job' belief, then go ahead and decide if it was Cheney or Mossad or MI6 or CIA/NSA or Rockefeller/Rothschild or Bilderberger/Bohemian Grove and go try to take them out"

Your inability to respond to my posts in a rational manner is noted.    

"I suppose, though, that those who have elevated the accused conspirators to such a level that the culprits could orchestrate everything from hijacked planes hitting precise floors...Other people know nobody on this planet is that skilled..."

Nobody on the planet?  Skilled enough for a GPS guidance system?  The WAAS signal became available in 2000.  Precision is measured in inches.  Not to mention that demolitions are computer-controlled these days and the floors could have been blown in any order.  Check your premise.

"well, they would seem to be people of whom folks should be afraid..."

Governments killed some 270 million of their own citizens in the 20th century, not inlcuding wars.  Fear of government only makes sense, given the parasitic and psychopathic type of personalities that tend to be attracted to government "service."

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 14:46 | Link to Comment psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"including those who designed and engineered the structures..."

Here is what the chief structural engineer for WTC had to say, chindit:

"Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, ... The building structure would still be there."

~John Skilling

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Apparently chindit missed the big fireballs coming from the buildings.  The overwhelming majority of the fuel was burnt in these fireballs.

Someone still needs to speak to the issue of the beams being neatly severed.

And, really, NIST put forth the "Pancake Theory?"  All their "effort" and they put up a pile of shit?  A lame explaination that would go over for those folks who don't have a clue about gravity...

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"At a certain point, people begin to conflate the values of a nation's citizens with those of its government."

Manhattan Project.

Still have to speak to the issues of the buildings collapsing (for extended periods of time) at free-fall speed.

Lots of work was logged in at WTC prior to 9/11.

I'll agree to disagree with those who don't have a clue about physics.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Pascal1967
Pascal1967's picture

To those who don't like drones ... fuck 'em!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Joe_in_Indiana
Joe_in_Indiana's picture

Who took these polls may I ask-need context.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:33 | Link to Comment sangell
sangell's picture

The Muhammed Public Opinion Institute which also found widespread support for deliberately targetting civilians if they were done to please Allah.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 10:14 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

'Twas Pew Research. I think they take polls for the Democrat party. Their name is in a corner of the graph.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:30 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

. It infuriates. It radicalises. It instils hatred.

 

Exactly.   If a loved one got torched by a foreign country there is a good chance I'd do something, to get revenge. That is precisely what the govt wants.  Endless terror = endless loss of freedoms- never to return I might add.

 


Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:38 | Link to Comment sangell
sangell's picture

Like Germany and Japan waged endless terrorist attacks on the US and UK after our manned bombers incinerated their cities. Funny, I don't remember that at all because it never happened. Perhaps that's the missing ingredient. Targeted attacks invite reprisal because the cost is low. Indiscriminate area bombardments dissuade retaliation because the cost is so high.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

First drone strikes = German V2 bombs on London in WW2. Supposed to "soften up" the British public and make them beg for the end of war. How did that work?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

The thing is - and I wish I still had the links for it - the British were the ones that initiated night raids on civillian populations. Hitler thought it incomprehensible and that the poms would stop. They didn't. So Germany did the same thing back after many attempts to stop the poms using such a tactic. I do see your analogy though in a weird reverse sort of way.

Cheers

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 06:57 | Link to Comment andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

The British attacked German cities as a strategic diversion, so the German bombing of British airfields and radar stations would be reduced to survivable levels. It worked. 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:20 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Of course it worked. They bombed the shit out of civilians at night. The Germans were attacking the british airfields and stations during the *day* and the pom pilots with the aircraft they had couldn't cope against superior planes and the losses were great. So they used the dirty tactic of bombing the shit out of the German civilians at night.This was unheard of, until then.

Disclaimer: My old man is a pom and my grandfather was in the RAF during the time in question. So I am by no means biased towards 'the other side' just saying what I've heard. Take it for what it's worth. I did (ie with a grain of salt) but after looking into it realised there is more to what the school books say. Remember, history is written by the winners

Wed, 02/13/2013 - 03:54 | Link to Comment fajensen
fajensen's picture

This was unheard of, until then.

Not quite. The Germans were enthusiatic about using zeppeliners to bomb London during WW1, the british wanted do do the same, but did not have airships. That idea was stopped when tracers were invented (the aircraft did not have the range and capacity of zeppeliners, so decent bombers did not exist). In WW2 the warring countries had exponentially better technology so they could bomb and strafe civilians more efficiently.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/airwar/bombers_zeppelins.htm

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:01 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Their countries were already at war with the US. The key ingredient is the perception of powerlessness. Their soldiers were fighting US soldiers, alleviating their instinctive drive to retalliate via sublimation - redirecting that energy to righteous indignation, patriotism, nationalism, resolve.

"Targeted attacks invite reprisal because the cost is low. Indiscriminate area bombardments dissuade retaliation because the cost is so high."

Very interesting hypothesis.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:48 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

Don't be so sure that the people orchestrating all the hate are even American. They have no country... No real people... Evil binds them together, and they parasite off humanity.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:28 | Link to Comment reader2010
reader2010's picture

 

But, George Bush famously told the barbarians back in 1992 that the American Way of Life is not negotiable. Divide and Conquer, BitchEz!

 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Wasn't it Dick Cheney who said this (more recently than 1992)?  Or, I suppose all the neo-cons read from the same playbook...

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

So 62% approve. If the technology existed 20 years ago it would be much closer to 80%

Sorry to use a (modified) cliche but "thank fuck for small mercies".

The rest of the world has pretty much known the US's game for a *long* time. The people of the USA however never realised how much they were disliked as all they ever heard on the sheepavision was "USA IS #1" But at least now, ever so slowly the yank citizens themselves are finally waking up and realising how fucked up of a society they really do live in. For this I give those that do credit, because after several trips to various states some years back (Washington DC, Florida, Nevada, California, and Washington state) it became truly apparent as to how warped their entire media complex is. I'm well aware that every country shows propoganda in their media but USA takes the cake in so many ways on that front.

Cheers

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:36 | Link to Comment MedTechEntrepreneur
MedTechEntrepreneur's picture

  im not crazy about the drone policy but it is hard to be sympathetic towards these villagers where the men cut the clits off the women, who engage in barbaric sharia law, murder or beat their wives to death in honor killings  

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:54 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

It's also hard to be sympathetic with those who force circumcision on young boys, wipe people off their own lands, kill kids throwing rocks, and who believe that everyone who doesn't follow/born into their cult as cattle. Don't see many drones among those parts though.

Cheers

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:56 | Link to Comment OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

The mid-east is a wonderful place, from one end to the other, isn't it?  My first tour there was 6 months in 1983 and I've yet to identify a single thing over there worth fighting, killing or dying for.  But then maybe everyone thinks their state is the end-all-be-all.  It's sad.  I just hope my 15 year-old son understands and steers clear.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 04:00 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Thanks for the reply...  I've never been there myself, just seen all the usual videos like "real iranian people" etc but a mate of mine came back from a tour in Iraq in 2009 and still doesn't even want to talk about it even though it's been years. He's now on Antidepressants and Xanax and though given an honerable discharge can't find civillian work. This is someone who never even had to fire off a round (air traffic controller)

Am sure your kid will be fine; you've 'been there, done that' and he'll take your input  on board with more weight than any media outlet ever could.

Cheers

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

amen.  i spent a few years of my childhood in the ME and went back as an adult.  oil is the only reason to get excited about the ME and we should do without it.

Wed, 02/13/2013 - 04:36 | Link to Comment fajensen
fajensen's picture

There is always the Old Ones: Family, Race, Religion and Honour. Plenty of things. Every drone attack push the 'family'-,'race'- and 'honour'- buttons quite effective! As designed: GWOT needs a steady supply of terrorists to keep the "production line" humming!!

The catch is - When drones become commoditised, then the fun starts for real with Obama having set the precedence with his "El Presidente can kill whomever displeases his splendor, whereever and whenever". There is a lot of "El Presidentes" in the world, even the local biker gang have one. And, in 10 years time of technological evolution, even the local gangbangers will have enough meth-money to buy a couple of combat robots to "sort things out" in accordance with "international law". By then one can probably print the airframes directly from designs off the net, some under-employed techies provide the targeting hardware and the propulsion system, and ... off we go.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:40 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Conversely, your wonderfully "civilized" western nation (USA), since Roe v. Wade, has systematially murdered only 50 million unborn.  In your sick perverted thinking you call this progress. You don't have to be sympathetic toward people to leave them alone and work out their own issues.  It wasn't that long ago that blacks were instantly hung for looking at a white woman the wrong way.  Oh, and Johnson's so-called "war on poverty" has worked out well, has it not?  75% of black children born out of wedlock.  3 of 5 black men in prison, many because of the war on drungs?  In TN cops have shot at each other fighting over who has authority to stop trucks carrying cash back after dropping off drugs for local distribution.  They allow the trucks in to spread their own neighborhoods with drugs.  Why?  Because when the stop the trucks on the way out with cash, guess who gets the cash?  The cops. 

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:47 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

<<the men cut the clits off the women, who engage in barbaric sharia law, murder or beat their wives to death in honor killings>>

Could be wrong, but I have not heard that the drone strikes have anything whatsoever to do with these issues.

In fact, I seem to recall certain feminists & multi-culturalists discouraging the passing of "judgement" on such traditions that are enshrined in, um, "culture". Our enlightened post-modernist thinkers tend to have more to say on, oh, Madonna, and Lady Gaga, than on these practices. Mustn't be seen as Imperialist of course.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 03:32 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I'm not sympathetic to them at all.  In fact, I hold them in such contempt that I will not expend a single thought or dime on their existence.  I guess you're very sympathetic to them, half of them, at least, since you have so much concern for their women.  I, on the other hand, do not give a fraction of a percent of a fuck about any of them.  With all your sympathy, can you please pay for my share of the taxes your war of sympathy goes to perpetuate?

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:39 | Link to Comment goatmug
goatmug's picture

They hate us for our freedom...

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:46 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

No one respects robot killing, not even us Americans.

Hard to win hearts and minds with robot killing machines.

All the good things our Men and Women do with boots on the ground to provide water, food, school supplies, and other infrastructure is blasphemed with these Terminator drones. 

Typical 21st century U.S.S.A. - send the real people off to die on the front lines without a full fighting force while you try to spackle the cracks with hegemonic technology - just like Wall Street and Washington waging war on the middle class with captured in the casino 401K's and IRA's while inducing inflation, devaluing the currency, paying shit % for savings, bailouts for the banksters, HFT algo robot trading run amok, and FED QE to the moon to ramp the meaningless markets.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:45 | Link to Comment sangell
sangell's picture

When I see a toyota pickup truck turned into a smoking pile of burnt metal in Yemen or a mudhouse in Waziristan reduced to rubble by a maverick missile I only regret the expense of killing savages with such an expensive weapon. They really aren't worth than kind of trouble. Better to just impose a seige on their territory and reduce their populations to their cultural level which is circa 7th century. Emargo modern technology, medicines and travel and just supply them with all the Korans they want.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 00:49 | Link to Comment IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

"Let's be intellectually honest": If the drone strikes are a recruitment tool for Al CIAda then the US governmental agenies conducting the drone strikes KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that the drone strikes help to strengthen the "so called" enemy by giving them anger and a just cause to fight back against America.

If the use Government agencies know the effect of drone strikes is to recruit more for Al CIAda and that many innocent people are killed (face it, guys posting internet blogs do not have a monopoly on brains and certainly have less complete information than the government agencies) then it MUST BE the intention of the agencies and not simply a random consequence to strengthen Al CIAda through the use of drones to kill innocent people. Without enemies, agencies such as the CIA serve no justifiable purpose. Therefore, as a matter of survival, the US agencies must fabricate or create enemies to justify their existence... pretty sad and psychotic is you ask me!

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 01:02 | Link to Comment steelrules
steelrules's picture

"Anger is more useful than despair"

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 07:56 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Shit mate ya better change your avatar if that's the case ;)

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 02:27 | Link to Comment Renfield
Renfield's picture

<<Without enemies, agencies such as the CIA serve no justifiable purpose>>

But dude, just imagine what the reduction of the Military Industrial Complex would do to GDP. It's not like there's much manufacturing or infrastructure work to replace it.

Good citizen-comrades are realistic about these things.

Tue, 02/12/2013 - 03:37 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

GDP'd probable skyrocket if we weren't burdened with that damn MIC.  Instead of a 2,000 dollar toilet seat, there'd be toilet seats for ALL!

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