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Greek Consumers Most Pessimistic On Earth: 40% Have No Disposable Income
Chronicling the collapsing Greek socioeconomic reality would be an interesting business school case study of what a zombie monetary regime kept alive at all costs does to the "weakest link(s)" (most recently "Greek Economy Grinds To A Halt As New Construction Implodes By 66.6%" and "Person Trampled As Fight Breaks Out At Greek Free Food Handout"), if only there weren't real men and women suffering as a result of the stupidity and greed of a few entrenched individuals who will stop at nothing to see their paper wealth preserved at all costs. The latest salvo of the utter misery Greek society finds itself in comes from Nielsen research, which reports that Greeks are now the most pessimistic consumers on the planet, with the Greek consumer confidence index dropping to 35 points in the last quarter of 2012. That is the lowest level among a total of 58 countries surveyed and 11 points lower than the same period last year in Greece.
It gets worse.
As Kathimerini reports: "Four out of 10 Greeks told the same survey that they no longer have any disposable money left after covering their basic needs, which is the highest rate ever recorded in Greece and the biggest in the October-December period in Europe. A year earlier (in Q4 2011) that rate had stood at 34 percent and in Q4 of 2010 it had been at 25 percent." Obligatory spin: once nobody has any disposable income, things can only get better. Unless, as Rajoy might add, they get worse.
What little money Greek do have is spent "toward the payment of loan and credit card installments (31 percent) or savings (22 percent). Only a very small number of consumers use their disposable income for entertainment, vacations and buying clothes, which helps to explain the turnover slump in of the sectors of food catering, domestic tourism and apparel stores."
With unemployment soaring to unprecedented levels, it comes as no surprise that finding and/or keeping a job constitutes the greatest concern among Greeks, which, at a rate of 44 percent, is among the highest in the world. The state of the economy ranks second, at 38 percent, debts are third at 26 percent and the increasing level of utility bills are fourth, on 21 percent.
Shrinking disposable incomes combined with insecurity have led to a change in Greeks' shopping habits, with 77 percent stating they have curtailed spending on entertainment outside the home, 67 percent saying they choose cheaper commodities (mostly own-label supermarket products) and more than half (54 percent) say they have cut down on fuel and electricity.
No wonder nobody tries to sell Europe on forecasts of a second half improvement in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 anymore. By now virtually all of them have given up.
The same survey found that the country with the most optimistic citizens is India, with an index reading of 121 points, followed by the Philippines with 119 and Indonesia with 117. Asia generally appears to be the most optimistic continent on the planet, with Europe being the most pessimistic. In total, the global index came to 91 points in the last quarter of 2012, dropping by one point from the previous quarter.
In addition to being the most optimistic, India is the one place in the world where gold is as functional a currency, and a store of wealth, as paper money (much to its central bankers' chagrin). One wonders if there is a connection...
As for the Greek gold: one wonders just which deep underground London vault it has been "rehypothecated" to these days?
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I used to have disposable income.
Then I got married.
MILF - Mother I've Learned to Finance
Being married makes it hard for me to hide my gambling addiction to the DOW and S&P
Last week I bought a garbage disposal. The disposal disposed of all my disposable income.
I hope you put it on credit...keep the ponzi alive!
Greek income is maybe not disposable, but for tax man, is seizable.
To all Greeks,
You, guys, are a bunch of lazy-ass pussies! Your proud country is being raped, your citizenry is turned into slaves and you, all of you collectively and each of you individually, just quietly bend-over and take it up your ass.
What a shame! What happened to the proud People who gave birth to the Western Civilization?
Well, since I am an equal opportunity bigot… we, Americans, are just a little bit behind of you in this shameful degradation (if that makes you feel any better).
Shamefully Yours,
Looney
Loony, Most Greeks took their money out of banks and put it into gold long ago.
The Greek government has gotten the EU to pump enough money into their
insolvent banks to allow their people to do so. What has the U.S. government
done for their people?
I bet the govt (unionized?) workers who make up about 50% of the "work" force are getting paid. Greece should leave the euro but being a slave is easier.
Greece must borrow to import fuel there is no other choice for the country or Greeks: no domestic petroleum supply.
Unlike China, Greece is not an export powerhouse, it cannot arbitrage fuel imports the way the Chinese can (for the moment).
What is underway in Greece is conservation by other means: the country is being de-carred the hard way, by bankruptcy and extreme poverty.
As long as there is a car running in the country the economic situation will continue to deteriorate from its current depressed levels. Greeks are competing with every other person on Earth for fuel. The country doesn't have a knife in a gunfight, it has a begging bowl.
Cars running in Greece? The traffic is astounding: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21195161
You've clearly never been to Greece. I have -- beautiful place -- and Athens is one of the few "European cities" with a suburban population that is substantiall as opposed to soley urban. That being said - people's ability to move thmselves from one part of town to another is key to the existence of what is left of their economy.
Cars and individual transportation the world over are what leads people to a efficient and freer market than the draconian soviet style market you have envisioned.
Cars are going to be around for many many years after you're long gone, and your Eco-fascist argument disguised as a horribly misguided And false economic argument illustrates the true depth of your insanity and macro-economic ignorance.
Btw - I'm loving that v8. I'm doing my best to talk my sister out of her 4 cylinder gas can into one as well. Anything I can do to drive people like you nuts I will. ;)
if yu have been to Greece as you say (I go every year) then you also should realize that the country has a huge potential in renewable energies such as wind, solar, tidal and geothermal energy which could be used to produce hydrogen and greenNH3 to make their cars run.
You mean that stuff that tears up pretty much every engine on the planet? Sure you can run your car on it for 30k miles before you have to start replacing seals and hoses.
The country also has huge potential for natrual gas and oil (discovered in the Aegean over the past 5 years.) In fact, it is said Greece has more fossil fuels than Saudia Arabia, and these can be extracted, sold and taxed without the government or the EU having to subsidize it.
So continue to live in fantasy land dude. Your "Green" revolution is nothing more than absolutely excellent marketing (see the process of building solar panels or hybrids).
Little Boy: "Dad, how much does a marriage cost?"
Dad: "I don't know, son. I am still paying for it."
It is that time again.
Some of us chicks are the ones who pay, not always the guys. I got divorced and got the house, but I also got all the debt because I was the only one with an income. I stopped going into debt the second I got my finances unentangled from his, even when I took all of his debt.
I am now out of debt, own my house, and have disposable income.
The guys do not always have to pay. I don't know why you accept it if you don't like it.
Will you Marry Me ??? Please! Pretty please! With sugar on top!!!
Chicks who pay (like guys who pay) tend to not want to marry / remarry. Go figure.
If it Flys, Floats or Fucks, its best to rent!
Guess that applies to both sexes !!!
Stuntman reads ZH.
I pray he does not stumble upon your comment and starts demanding rental payment for his services. Damn you.
Trust me on this one Stuntgirl, you shouild be the one making money on this deal !!!
Stuntman get paid to perform tricks...that's why they are "stuntmen"...
I think in relationships, we should stick to barter. ;)
"In sickness and in health until death do us part"
I am amazed at the number of women who leave/divorce their husbands when they loose their job. Most guys don't realize how their "solid" marriages hang by a thread. If they loose their job they're history.
"...for richer or for poorer" Maybe they were using the new-fangled vows?
If he does not get steady work after 14 years, and yet insists on spending like he does have steady work, smokes too much dope, and gains weight, is it okay that I don't like it and want to get out?
I remedied that with a divorce.
Gesus man, where are the EU credit cards with $10,000 euro limits on them, that will get their economy going again, right Ben??
Those people look hungry and scared in that photo, I can't wait until they stop being scared and start getting pissed off, then the real change can begin!!!
Greeks are learning the American jingle, "jobless recovery."
As horrible as things are in Greece - at least they do not have Obama.
The Greeks have an unelected former Goldman Sachs hatchet man that is keeping the EU banking elites boot on the throats of the Greeks. In the words of Hillary Clinton, "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?" There really isn't much difference.
One of those alien cookbooks is gonna come in handy: To Serve Man
only 40%?
You can go to jail in Greece for telling the statistical truth. Imagine what the REAL number might be!
If I couldn't feed myself and had to sleep outside, I guess I would get myself arested.
I'd just steal untill I get cought :)
people are doing that in the US
Gotta link? I certainly believe you, but would love to read something on it. Though I'm guessing the machine isn't too excited to put that into print.
Davey is a defense attorney. I think that comment comes from experience.
Don't have the link, but in the news yesterday..."man steals crispy creme doughnut truck". I'm not kidding.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/nc-man-allegedly-robs-bank-health-...
I'd do it in a heartbeat for something critical, like cancer care. Prisoners are well taken care of, forget what you read in the papers. And if you get care in prison, they'll treat you forever for the same thing, once you get out.
Might be one reason for the push for Obamacare so soon after the Depression hit. They know there's going to be a collapse of healthcare, and they can't all be hired by the Feds. Can you imagine millions of sick people getting arrested for stealing something cheap?
During the Great Depression getting arrested was a tactic by the jobless to stay warm and get a meal.
As the Depression wore on police stopped arresting petty thieves and beat them instead ... then dumped them at the city lines.
we had a case not long ago that sums it all up. Man in fifties loses job. Wife moved to part time. Man gets starbucks job. woman gets cancer. man starts stealing coffee to help pay for medical costs as medical benefits have vanished. Man has never broken the law in his life is sobbing and suicidal. Prosecutors are - well government drones. This isn't just street people. This place is losing it.
another true barometer is the parent bailing out their kid or hiring the defense attorney. Most crime is doen by youth. Parents will often come to the defense attorney's office and at the very least pull out a credit card or go to a bondsman and do the same. That is becoming a diminishing phenomenon. Add to that the internet and universal access to criminal history which is now compounding any young persons inability to get a job because the cops are not pouring out beer or throwing away pot, they are citing and the system is charging everyone to get fines and other money but ultimately society is an idiot and is paying a much larger price than the lost fines in young folks who can't get jobs and either drain public systems or turn to increasing crime.....
Authorities say a 73-year-old ex-convict told investigators he became accustomed to life in prison and wanted to get caught when he robbed a Niles bank so he could live his final years behind bars.
A federal complaint says Walter Unbehaun walked into the Niles bank with a pistol and used the stickup line that he had just months to live. He wore no disguise during Saturday's heist that netted him $4,178.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130212/news/702129816/
That won't work if you are a banker. First you'd probably never get caught and if you did you sure wouldn't get arrested. I understand that at JP Mor-gain if you don't get caught stealing they decrease your bonus because obviously you aren't trying (stealing) enough.
They need to turn to sex tourism, like in
thailand, except, well, Greek women are kinda nasty looking, so turn out the boys.
So you like how the greek boys look, but not the women. Okay...
He just likes their geometry
Hey Ms. C, We doing a garden this year?
Yes! Thanks for asking. I have four tiers, cocentric semi-circles, in the back yard. Planted dwarf peach, all manner of berries, paw-paws, figs, and lots of herbs and wild flowers. We will put in asparagus this year. we will randomly seed following an asian botanist's ideas that we follow.
The front yard is berries, figs, the five surviving trees and rotting wood chips. We did away with the lawn. Hulk turned me on to a film on-line "Back-to-Eden." It inspired me to wood chip the whole front yard. It has been rotting there since August 2012. Plus I laced it with mycelium (fancy word for mushrooms that grow more latterally underground and break down anything!!). The whole yard is a real science experiment. I am excited.
I planted a Gadsden Flag in my front yard : )
http://www.gadsdenandculpeper.com/gadsdenflags1.html?cmp=googleadwords
You mean a DHS homing beacon?
I went out with a dwarf peach a few times last year but the relationship couldn't quite reach the level I was after....so she ended it ;)
sorry about that...I was feeling kinda silly after the SOTU and all.
Back to eden:
http://backtoedenfilm.com/
I have only done this on a small scale, but hope to have time to do this on our
bigger East Coast gardens this spring...
Yeah back to eden stands on a few basic permaculture / natural principles built on the premise that almost all fertile land is covered with natural material - be it leaves, wood pieces whatever and that this is absolutely vital for the microbial world. Makes utter common sense when you give it a moment. Also saves a ton of water - actually more important, it regenerates land water. Working with natural landscape to capture water can desalinate soil etc etc etc.
I know I have posted this before but highly rec: "Farm for the Future" on YouTube - great discussion of permacultre crossing peak oil and modern Ag. Joh Liu Green gold has posted some good stuff too
One straw revolution? I'm reading that right now.
You go stuntgirl! Me likes stuntgirl already!
yeah I remember Hulk posting that. Good stuff along with the Japanese rebel and Australian wildman who started a lot of this. Geoff Lawton is also a genius on the big picture. And John Lieu has made some good films. Great to hear. Want to see some winter gardening next. Easier and cheaper than you think. Asian greens are some of the hardiest winter greens. Good tastes too: Mizuna, mibuna etc. I have started them here in the greenhouse along with spinach, seedlings already two inches high. We had a mild winter here in the PNW and I left Kale and cabbage in the ground in the open, it is starting to regrow. Kale does more for cancer than all the chemo in the world. So do a lot of hardy berries.
I can't wait to get my hands on some proper land... Spainplosion is delaying me much.
I must confess I am trying to not find the idea of "random"culture terrifying. I hope I can catch you in a few months and ask how it's turning out for you.
Really should add a G for Garden this year to gold, guns and god (as in what ever you believe). Still time to map a garden out and get a shovel and heirloom seeds.
Back to Eden is fantastic - I went with the wood chip mulch too, and it made a huge difference just with moisture retention. Plus I just layer more compost as it becomes ready to use and wood chips, and everything keeps humming along nicely.
you did yourself and your plants a huge favor by adding mycelium to the wood chips MsC.
here's the 3rd ingredient to the magic equation : rock dust.
check out the dinosaur kale growing in a combo of all 3:
http://youtu.be/MEkFFRjDkvs?t=2m12s
(sorry for the annoying host but even a minute of watching will give you the idea)
rock dust is best applied in the fall after doing a soil test, but you could sprinkle a good basalt mix in small doses during the season before a rain storm and get a jumpstart.
check out steve solomon for deets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa9cEF3Affg
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/steve-solomon-organic-mythology-soil-h...
<<<<< It inspired me to wood chip the whole front yard. It has been rotting there since August 2012.
What about termites? TIA
seems like you never have being in greece,or you are not that interest in women thought.
http://www.naughtynomad.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=530&page=3
I have a friend who is Greek and we were on a boat going to Alcatraz and he started talking to a woman from Greece,holy shit she was hot.
I go to a Greek Church, and completely understand the term greek-goddess.
Sweet story Bro!
for your education,here is a greek chick of new generation
http://youtu.be/LPtBfABFL9U
http://youtu.be/pnXp4xJVa4Y
Greek maths - most reliable since Goldman Sucks did it for them. Oh, wait...
Greek math done with a chinese calculator...
I used to have disposable income.
Then I got divorced.
nothing is changing anytime soon.
remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk&sns=em
guess who still has the lead
and to think it's only the beginning. we are in for one hell of a ride.
Hudson said it best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpilnOCUbP8
When it really catches speed the Great Famine will not be televised.
Not a word on this crises on UK corporate MSM for weeks. And not a word from other EU/EZ leaders or the EU-crats.
At what point do the Greek people force entry into Parliament, drag out the political filth like Venalzelos and hang them from the nearest trees? I think it's called "revolution".
Either Greeks are masochists or it's time to start again.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not out there. It's not the headlines but why would it be with yet another gun crime in the US and pregnant royalty bikini photos?
I assume by "it", you mean the state of disaster that is Greece. Right?
Well, I do know about it generally but there is virtually no coverage of it by MSM. That may be for the reasons you allude or it may be that MSM has chosen to play down or ignore the disaster that the Euro is after political pressure. After all, if other European citizens were to get wall-to-wall coverage of what's happening, they might get the wrong idea and conclude the Euro is a croc and is destroying European societies. And they might decide to go out on the streets themselves and upset the cozy political EU propaganda machine which keeps telling us that the Euro crises is improving.
And yet they voted for the same corrupted criminals to power after decades of abuse. And still think € is the greatest thing after tax evasion. Oh my...
What is this thing you call "voting"? Is that what an elector does?
Your right, the Euro Zone is like cocaine to an addict, its sexy and fun, and makes you believe your part of something bigger and sexier then yourself, ..............and then the drug dealer wants his money! The Greek people are addicted to the mythology of the E.U. and its one currency. It was sold to the people of Europe as "The United States of Europe" but each "state" could keep its own sovereignty!!! Its like eating at a very expensive joint, and each guest thinks the other is paying the bill!
They either have to give up their national sovereignty or give up the union, there is no other way forward, anything elseis just bullshitting themselves!
You idiots don't know anything about Greek demographics. They have an ageing population that have an "income" in €uros. They have EVERYTHING to lose by ditching the €uro so they vote for the status quo. The younger generation have nothing to lose and want change but are outnumbered, it's as simple as that.
And while I'm here... the Tylers can't write a "human interest" story without mentioning fucking gold, which is 100% irrelevant to this story. Fucking morons.
Oh, and you dipshits start the thread with a discussion on marriage. Fucking morons.
I wonder what the diners are like over there.
and yet, now we're destroying thousands of tons of horsemeat. go fish....
actually... wasn't greece a fishing community untill the 80's?
why don't they go fishing again for food?
If their fishing industry is anything like that in Pakistan, then they've been beaten to the punch by commercial fishing boats that grab as much as they can, and leave the tiny fishing villages with very little to catch.
Kinda hungry I would expect...crabby, low blood suger, in need of a good protein hit.
Yet they still have a technocratic controlled government.
There is no hope for any government run Nation-State, I am afraid.
Thus why we soldiers of fortune need to keep buying silver bullion.
Stack it up and stack it high, taking back the money supply!
The mob crowded around the bread truck is very nicely bedecked in svelte leather jackets and I do see a fine pair of fashionable shades. Their heads are nicely shorn and their face beards are trim and even.
I guess they "feel wealthy".
5$ for knockoff Armani sunglasses. Need I say more?
Why buy food for $5, you can't wear food to a party.
These are middle-aged people.
Some of these people were completely fine till a few years ago.
I am often surprised at the clothes of those rummaging in the grabage in Spain.
Then I remember, if that nice jacket is 3 years old, and 3 years ago this person was doing just fine.... You will sell your crap to buy food, but keep the best coat and glasses, because they are warm/useful. I hear lots of jews wore really nice wool coats and glasses right up to the gas chambers, yes?
Hobo looks take a while to catch up to your real situation.
I have a Greek friend who's old man is still living in Athens - apparently the running joke within families is that if someone pisses you off, your threaten to sign your property over to them. Property taxes are so high that there's no benefit to coming into it...
That joke just went over great around this water-cooler.
Hey, this is fun. All of Greece's gold belongs to Germany. All of Germany's gold is held in the US or has been leased out. All of the US gold has been leased out or rehypothicated to London. London sold all of its gold four years ago. Where's the gold, bithezz!?
Antarctica?
Ahhhhh......someone asks the correct questions.....the "Money of Kings"......its in some VERY strong hands. hehehhehehe......you are very wise my friend
India, China, Russia.....
Its about time for a Persian invasion.
When in the hell are you Greeks going to gather your pitchforks, axes, and fucking guns and take your goddam country back ?! Dispose of the Liers, quit showing your sad and pathetic plight to the rest of the world dammit, fucking quit whining and rebel & revolt! Shit, look at your ancestral heritage, burn the fucking place down and begin anew.
well... half of them can't read and all they know about history is that it brought in money for the tourist industry.
You know what they say: as long as people have something to lose, they won't revolt.
they'll only revolt once their freedom goes out of the window.
Which freedoms do you refer to? The freedom to bow down to Germany or the freedom to suffer austerity? Maybe you are referring to their freedom to have technorats, freedom to starve, or the freedom to use only Euro? Hmm, so many freedoms...
Probably for the same reason it don't happen anywhere, once they "burn it down" they will need the bankers to loan them the money to rebuild. They COULD do like Iceland and just tell the bankers that they have a choice, the Graybar Hotel or fuck off.
They're in the exact same position as when the NAZIS took them captive during WWII. Only now, they're called BANKERS!
When in the hell are you Greeks going to gather your pitchforks, axes, and fucking guns and implement real socialism, that is, Marxism-Leninism ?!
(Come on, let's be realistic, this is Europe we're talking about)
Greek gold was pledged for the last bailout.
I want to know if it got moved.
OT:
This is the third "training" exercise in a month. South Houston, Galveston and now La Marque and all the areas have a common demographic, care to guess?
The United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is the part of the federal government that's responsible for administrating programs that deal with health and welfare. According the official HHS website, the department works with almost one fourth of all federal government expenditures and administers more grant dollars than all other federal agencies combined. and are about to get cut in half.
U.S. Army drills in Texas City, La Marque
By Robert Stanton | February 13, 2013 you see a UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter hovering over La Marque and Texas City today, not to worry: we're not under attack.It's all part of a U.S. Army training exercise involving a small contingent of servicemen that should wrap up today, or Thursday at the latest, officials said.
"This is an Army exercise to test their equipment," La Marque Police Chief Randall Aragon said. "The area resembles a theater of operation they might be using. We want the community to understand that if they see a helicopter flying over their rooftops in this area, to not be alarmed."
Much of the training will take place around Industrial Boulevard in La Marque, Aragon said. The roughly 100-acre wooded area is owned by Dow Chemical.
Army spokesman Larry Jackson said the operation would not disrupt the day-to-day activities of residents.
"We pose no threat to the public," Jackson said. "Let me be clear that this isn't urban assault training. We are a small group of folks, doing some activities."
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/U-S-Army-drills-in-Texas-City-La-Marque-4275690.php
India is fucked ... look at it's current accounts, all that gold will start flowing out again in the near future.
You misread the memo. Only trash talk gold when it's going up.
India and gold. Now there's a tale. I wonder if the gang here is "awake" enough to garner any lesson?
It is oft said here that if one could print his way to prosperity, Zimbabwe would rule the world. Well, if gold could create prosperity, India would rule the world.
It is likely that since shortly after a few brave souls wandered away from Olduvai Gorge, the conglomeration of areas and peoples the world now knows as India has held more public + private gold than any nation-state on the planet. That didn't prevent them from being invaded and colonized countless times, from Tartars to Kushans to Afghans to Mughals to Brits to Union Carbide and Monsanto. It didn't stop a post-Independence civil war that left three countries and millions slaughtered. Today those three countries hold 22% of the world's population. Collectively the three are well below the world's average per capita GDP, and they have a greater percent of citizens below the poverty line than almost any other land. They do have lots of shiny metals, though.
More people in India own gold than have access to a sanitary facility where "the Maharajah goes alone". Maybe the real benefit of mining all that gold or digging holes to bury it in the ground is that the hole has another practical use. Of India's one point two billion souls, approximately one quarter has access to something other than that hole. Lot of good all that gold did them.
Fiat-based economies, even those using fractional reserve banking, have experienced incredible gains in living standard and have produced massive additions to the body of human knowledge over the last hundred years. The gilded nations did not lead that progress. They were too busy trying to stay away from the Grim Reaper.
There must be something else at work, something apart from whether a nation's monetary system is based on shiny metals or someone's keyboard. Perhaps if we threw away the illusions and delusions, put myth in its proper place, and stopped pretending that shiny metals have some supernatural powers, we could begin work on the best solution to what ails us. Putting false gods before us isn't going to do the trick. It's a good a time as any to evolve and stop being hypnotized by shiny metals that in and of themselves produce nothing.
Shiny metals as a hedge or as a trade is all well and good, but the idea of again using a randomly distributed element with little inherent value as the bedrock of the world's economy is like, well, we might as well bring back leeches and bloodletting to "cure" disease.
Ok...as long as we are playing 'random association' here, let us view with the same dispassionate and scientific lense the fact that those countries with the highest per capita density of flush toilets also seem to be disposed to printing their currency on paper - which may or may not clog plumbing in situations of hyper-inflation which all non-precious metal currencies are historically prone to....
I wonder if a certain buffoon is awake enough to catch the drift?
Good to hear from a fan.
Got to rub the sleep from my eyes to get your point, as it seems somewhat obscure to me. Perhaps you would be so kind as to do the same with my post.
I'm not promoting either fiat or fractional reserve banking, and certainly not championing any Illuminati, Ponzi Master or Lizard People. I simply do not see shiny metals as the be-all, end-all that you seem to believe they are, and I am awake enough to see that progress and development, as well as the accumulation of knowledge on the part of our species, is quite separate from what religion people happen to hold regarding the nature of wealth storage and transfer.
"Money" is faith. That's it. That faith can be in paper, electrons, pukka shells or shiny metals. All it takes is for at least one side in a transaction to believe in the means or method of wealth transfer. Peter Minuit knew that. As a general and equal opportunity agnostic, I have no faith in anything, but merely go with the flow. I'm more than happy to use whatever the majority faithful believes is valuable, and I only need to check the direction of the wind while wind still hits me. I am reasonably certain all fiat in existence today will one day be gone, but so long as I judge the wind while it still hits me, I needn't worry about some future I will never see. Ironically, as one can see from the most infamous example of fiat evaporation in recent history (Weimar), fiat merely begets another fiat. That's the need to believe, for practical purposes if no other. Also, who wants to replicate the sad experience of Nelson Bunker Hunt, who watched his $48 fantasy turn to a $3 paperweight. Even if he could "take it with him", he's still down huge from 33 years ago.
I know it's "any second now", but the last two years has shown that the most aggressive printing in history has done exactly nothing for shiny metals. In fact, they have actually declined. There's been a boatload of proselytizing, but all that has done has been get the two investor elements usually referred to as "dumb money" (retail and central banks like Russia, China and India) to load up. Imagine if these two groups hadn't been buying the last two years.
Shiny metals are not magical. They are assets, but completely non-productive assets. Even the vilified Warren Buffett wrote something a year or two back that cut to the quick, when he posited the example of an investor with $9.6 trillion faced with a choice of acquiring all the world's gold (priced then a hundred per ounce higher than now) or farmland and Exxon stock. Over time the farmland would throw off something useful (food) and Exxon would pay dividends and employ hundreds of thousands. The gold would remain a large cube 68 or so feet per side, doing nothing, creating nothing, employing no one. Realizing any value from it would require finding someone who felt it was worth more than whatever they had to trade for it. He called it a "fear trade", meaning that in order to profit (since the asset itself can do nothing), fear had to increase. Of course, some people like fear. It's at the core of the business model of firms like Tulving, APMEX and Sprott.
Go ahead and worship your chosen lord to your heart's content. Live in a flat world. Confuse cause and effect. Grab some leeches in case you fall ill. You have that freedom, just as Nelson Bunker Hunt had that freedom. If the world on the whole is going to survive, however, its inhabitants are going to have to evolve beyond the Age of Myth.
A masterclass in the mind of the cabbalist minion...my thanks for your cooperation in allowing us to delve further into what must be expunged from the polity for it to be free of internal enemies...
I have no faith in anything, but merely go with the flow. I needn't worry about some future I will never see. Shiny metals are not magical. They are assets, but completely non-productive assets...
another Krusty the Klown production, wherein the ventriloquists' dummy mouths the same hynotic lullabies to the gaped-mouth goys agog with the grandeur of the open-faced deception of the Grand Illuminist...
whilst Sideshow Bob picks their pockets silently so as to not disturb their gaze.
I'll continue to shit in the woods and add to nature's store of wealth, whilst you flush the detrius of a destroyed intellect into the vast sewage treatment facility once known as the "Age of Progress."
I remain, your most humble, etc., etc.,
randomly distributed element with little inherent value
some scientists at Brookhaven Nat'l Lab might disagree with that statement
http://www.bnl.gov/newsroom/news.php?a=11047
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/05/negative_strangeness/
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-03/dnl-gw031803.php
Then go long for a trade. Treat it as any other asset class. If it's so useful, it might be wise not to lock it up in some vault or worship it as some omnipotent force.
sorry, not interested in "trading". just thought there was someone else interested in exploring why the shiny has held such a mythical luster in the minds of men for millenia...beyond Uncle Warren's pithy example.
guess not, oh well.
German's are Still optimistic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSIJ1C2Frws
Why wouldn't they be? Didn't they accomplish what two world wars could not without firing a single shot?
If you ask any street level German, they don't need a whole continent of insolvent states on their collective backs while trying to survive themselves.
Why would I ask a street level German? WTF do they have to do with monetary policy? You think such things are decided democratically or something? Sorry, but fascism doesn't work that way.
I wonder if that socialist welfare state the Greeks once loved is still as popular as it used to be! I doubt it!
Quite right, it is time to cast off this democratic-socialist nonsense once and for all! Forward, Bolsheviki! Forward, Soviet!
America this is your future. Bernanke printing $85 billion a month in additional debt month after month after month by the Federal Reserve with Obama's blessing will collapse this economy. Think of Obama as G Pap. The former president elect of Greece promised the easiest route forward in typical Socialist style and now look where Greece is today. On the precipice of an economic calamity that only rivals Biblical famines. You tell me how we are different. We have gone from 70% debt to gdp when Obama took office to now today at 103%.
This is what you get when you play the bankers' game on their terms.
It reminds me of Richard Pryor's piece about the Wino and the Junkie. Where the Wino says he knew Jesus, and remembers him before he got killed. The Wino warned Jesus not to go down to the railroad depot saying "Boy, don't you go down there fuckin' with them Jews without no money." Insert Central Bankers for Jews and Greece for Jesus and here we are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQqEa8FNZsw
i think is getting boom times for greek exports.
the question is if there is enough of interested importers.
[img]http://s19.postimage.org/t3xqqg5sj/greekgirlsathens.jpg[/img][/url]
Get ready, America. It's coming your way.
I must be Greek cause i'm pretty damned pessimistic. It gets worse every time I hear Obama open his mouth. Its not so much him speaking that gets to me as the sound the media makes afterward. Kind of like the sound a dog makes when he is trying to get peanut butter out of the roof of his mouth. Tongues wagging and slobber everywhere.
The mob in Greece, as in France, has voted itself favours and pork during the last 50 years. Same all over the EU. Ofcourse the politicians, bankers and the msm benefited, however it is the mob that chose to believe there is a free lunch, that you can vote yourself benefits for free and have bau afterwards. As long as the republic is dead so is our future.
And yet STILL no revolution, no declaration of a provisional government, no movement among the Greek people to overthrow the government. Which shows that they still have a petit bourgeois outlook. Let them starve until they change that outlook. It's the Greek PEOPLE, not the Greek OLIGARCHS, who are still clinging to their destructive outlooks. Whether such awful people deserve to die is for the moralists to decide, but die they will, unless they change their minds. Ha ha!! Clowns!!!!!!
Is that you Comrade Lenin? When does the train to Greece leave?
Only a matter of time now...this happiness index thing confirms it!
Watch for the flow of refugees to shift from East\West-South\North* to the other way round...
Greeks seeking relief from high taxes, heating and fuel costs, etc. etc., start leaking through the Turkish border in search of a new start. Italians, Spanish, French follow...Asian countries tighten border controls and visa requirements, Whites are routinely held in 'temporary' camps for illegal immigrants, going away on Asian holidays becomes a paperwork nightmare...
after all, if you're destined to live in a cardboard box, the temptation to go where you can do it on a beach with waving palm trees and coconuts is insurmountable.
*sorry Merikans, this does not include youse...there's a big wall bin built with your tax $, and it's not there to 'keep people out'...like they told you...don't even think of making a run for it...they got drones now!
Depends on how those surveyed define "basic needs."
In the US that includes pets, cell phones, movies, restaurants, cable tv, too big of a house, too nice / new of a car, a closet full of clothes, more than 3 pair of shoes, vacations, $1 coffee much less $4 coffee, etc, etc. Which is the problem -- over consumption, debt financed consumption no less, living well beyond one's means. All the while complaining somebody better provide them with health care and retirement benefits (beyond what they personally paid for) -- they are entitled. Stop borrowing. Stop spending.
If they have nothing to lose then it is time for them to rustle up some banksters and haul them in.
At that point, the UN would step in and establish order (re-education camps).
Bankster Henchmen they are.
What are all you doomer libertarians babbling about? History shows that good communist citizens never need nor want "disposable income". Greece is triumphantly building socialism and you are all jealous petit-bourgeoisie!
"...if only there weren't real men and women suffering as a result of the stupidity and greed of a few entrenched individuals who will stop at nothing to see their paper wealth preserved at all costs."
Bullshit. Those "real men and women" were just as culpable, just as guilty as those "few entrenched individuals". Everyone was on the same bandwagon, some people just had better seats.
their govt is still pushing mass immigration too
Zerohedge, be careful. Publishing that picture above is illegal in Greece.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=el&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw...
The worst aspect about this is that Greece appears to be the first hostage that the kidnappers are killing off, just to demonstrate they are serious! I do not think it is a coincidence that the birthplace of what we now call "democracy" (an originally Greek word) is the place where the runaway fascist plutocracy system is manifesting the ways it plans to transform our social systems the most. There is nothing saner emerging out of Greek politics that I am aware of. ... Looking at Greece is looking at what is also being "planned" for the future of the rest of the developed world. All NATO countries are probably going to be systematically transformed, according to their own time table, into societies that adapt to being "deliberately" destroyed by force backed frauds. The most tragic aspect of this trajectory is that it will not stop ... Those who are making it happen, due to their social habits, will also eventually be destroyed by what they are doing too. In my opinion, the people who are directing these things to happen have lost control of the systems that they originally made and maintained.
agree.+1
We're getting there but their income is still funded by gov't...
Dumpster diving outside of supermarkets (as they are closing for the night) in NYC is becoming a "normal" event.
Used to be slightly comical wathcing the young slackers to it, but now with older people joining in...... now not so much.
So the supermarkets in NYC used to stay open at night and they don't now? Just no demand because people are broke? I know places like Staples used to stay open til 9 pm then 8 pm then 7 pm. Hope and Change.
Pre-Obama - Staples and Office Depot would have customers all the time. Now they are ghost towns.
Greece is pessimistic as there is no hope and jobs are moving to Asia. They are right about India , my last trip there its raining jobs, jobs from USA, UK, EU. Its not Indias gold habit thats driving INdian economy, its the work habit and Western companies "great deal" habit.
Last trip to India December 2012, excess jobs, no beggars, more traffic, more flashy cars- Porsches etc on roads where you can never exceed 20mph. Air pollution is horrendous. People are just too happy. INteresting that the beggars were gone, not profitable anymore.
Greece has always been poor and screwed up. When they had the drachma, at least they had some industry like textiles. This is all Econ 101 comparative advantage. When they took on an expensive currency aka Euro which is a baby D Mark.
You then had a poor country with huge govt worker population, low productivity, no real manufacturing or innovation, no natural resources, poor productivity and the list goes on - with and expensive currency. It does NOT work. No way no how.
So the EUSSR scum essentially made them slaves to EU handouts.
The Greeks are like American Indians living on an (economic) reservation. American Indians at least figured out how to start casinos but Greece has nothing. The aging population will not dump the euro because their pensions and savings will be in devalued (new) drachma.
So they just sit there with slow death. Sad but they are pretty stupid like Americans with Obummer.
The globalists wish to export this worldwide. Surfdom will be the 'new normal'.
good luck for TPTB to keep the people sedated ...
"Obligatory spin: once nobody has any disposable income, things can only get better. Unless, as Rajoy might add, they get worse."
Yes, but if things get worse then we "have to lie" so "things can only get better! :O)