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Guest Post: Currency Wars Are Trade Wars

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics blog,

Paul Krugman is all for currency wars, but not trade wars:

First of all, what people think they know about past currency wars isn’t actually true. Everyone uses some combination phrase like “protectionism and competitive devaluation” to describe the supposed vicious circle of the 1930s, but as Barry Eichengreen has pointed out many times, these really don’t go together. If country A and country B engage in a tit-for-tat of tariffs, the end result is restricted trade; if they each try to push their currency down, the end result is at worst to leave everyone back where they started.


And in reality the stuff that’s now being called “currency wars” is almost surely a net plus for the world economy. In the 1930s this was because countries threw off their golden fetters — they left the gold standard and this freed them to pursue expansionary monetary policies. Today that’s not the issue; but what Japan, the US, and the UK are doing is in fact trying to pursue expansionary monetary policy, with currency depreciation as a byproduct.

There is a serious intellectual error here, typical of much of the recent discussion of this issue. A currency war is by definition a low-level form of a trade war because currencies are internationally traded commodities. The intent (and there is much circumstantial evidence to suggest that Japan at least is acting with mercantilist intent, but that is another story for another day) is not relevant — currency depreciation is currency depreciation and still has the same effects on creditors and trade partners, whatever the claimed intent.

Krugman cites Barry Eichengreen as evidence that competitive devaluation does not necessarily mean a trade war, but Eichengreen does not address the issue of a trade war directly, much less denying the possibility of one.  Indeed, while broadly supportive of competitive devaluation Eichengreen notes that the process was “disorderly and disruptive”.

And the risks of disorder and disruption are still very real today.

As Mark Thoma noted in 2010:

While the positive effects a currency war produced in the 1930s are unlikely to reappear, there is a chance of large negative effects such as a simultaneous trade war or the breakdown of the international monetary system, so let’s hope a currency war can be avoided.

The mechanism here is very simple. Some countries — those with a lower domestic rate of inflation, like Japan — have a natural advantage in a currency war against countries with a higher domestic rate of inflation like Brazil and China. If one side runs out of leverage to debase their currency because of heightened domestic inflation, their next recourse is to resort to direction trade measures like quotas and tariffs.

And actually, the United States and China in particular have been engaging in a low-level trade and currency war for a long time.

As I noted last year:

China and Russia and Brazil have all recently expressed deep unease at America’s can-kicking and money-printing mentality. This is partly because American money printing has exported inflation to the world, as a result of the dollar’s role as the global reserve currency, and partly because these states already own a lot of American debt, and do not want to be paid off in hugely-debased money.

Since I made that statement, there has been a great lot of debasement without any great spiral of damaging trade measures. But with the world locked into ever greater monetary and trade interdependency, and with fiery trade rhetoric continuing to spew forth from the BRIC nations, who by-and-large seem to continue to believe that American money-printing is damaging their interests   — who in the past two years have put together a new global reserve currency framework — it would be deeply complacent to believe that the risks of a severe trade war have gone away.

(Unfortunately, Krugman and Eichengreen both seem to discount the reality that Okun’s law has broken down, and that monetary expansion today is supporting crony industries, and exacerbating income inequality, but those are another story for another day)


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Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:17 | 3250534 NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

FUCK You Krugman you evil Fat Sycophant Elf Bastard

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:13 | 3250623 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

aaaaaaaaaaaah..come on now. The Krugmiester is just playin' his role. You need to see what his kid does, actually pretty talented I guess. Please do be patient and watch for a few minutes??? Kruggies boy might turn out alright..Although the enjoyment in inciting crowd mania seems to be a genetic flaw shared by both Father and Son, Maybe the kid will put it to good use?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:57 | 3250797 MrX
MrX's picture

I am introducing fiat doobies as the new international standard of exchange.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 02:13 | 3250862 Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

The rumble in Keynestown.

WATCH: Ron Paul Vs. Paul Krugman

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:20 | 3250910 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Currency wars are class warfare taken to an extreme. You're all going to get fucked over royally. Bend over.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:57 | 3250938 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There needs to be a Pop-Up Fallacy video on The Kruggybear.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:17 | 3251113 Bicycles and Beer
Bicycles and Beer's picture

his son, its really a shame to hear.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:08 | 3251643 piceridu
piceridu's picture

He has two cats...ok, that answers a lot of questions.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:40 | 3250657 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

According to Clausewitz, war is politics by other means. Currency manipulation is politics by other means as well, especially in the post-nuclear world.

Can't just be slinging random fucking bombs around like the good old days. 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:28 | 3250787 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Same as it always was. At first, trade is lucrative, and we pay you. Second, we say 'fuck you' because we don't like the trade terms anymore. Lastly, we kill you and take what we want. Humans aren't that complicated, after all.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:38 | 3251129 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

so every city is Dresden

how humane

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:30 | 3251161 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Shame as it ever was. Dresden overwhelmed by refugees
that should not have been there in the first place unaccounted for after genocidal bombings.

Only counted to the last limb found in the rubble,
but those were Nazi counts that can`t be trusted because
they left records on every bullet fired and every soul
diminished by disciplinary action.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:49 | 3250931 Seer
Seer's picture

Perhaps he's SHORT fiat?

What I don't get with all of this is that isn't it about our notion that fiat is pretty much worthless?  If so, then what's the problem with recognizing it as such via devaluation?  Remember: GOLD is the reference point; we here on ZH tend to believe that gold is "undervalued," which is really saying that fiat is overvalued.

The words coming out of the elf might be wrong, but it seems like the tone isn't so off base. (and no, this isn't in defense of him or any of the other minions of TPTB)

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:47 | 3251137 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

Is that you ,  " Krugman-In-Wonderland " blogger .... ?????


Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:30 | 3250549 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Currency wars are not having their 1930's effect (yet) because of the massive debt that preceded them.  In effect, America devalued its currency decades ago via low interest rates and non-existent lending standards.  It is not accidental that people with no income could buy a house for $500K.  Debt is no longer as easily acquired by individuals because of debt saturation and programs like TARP, so governments are trying to replace the debt with cash that is flowing to the top 1%.  Private debt is being converted to public debt (while the wealthy are pocketing the cash printed in the meantime).  Eventually all that cash infusion will catch up with debt deflation, and massive inflation for the masses will likely follow.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:41 | 3251131 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

your most important word is in the parentheses. Well said

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:30 | 3250555 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Krugman sucks big sloppy donkey cock.

To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 15:54 | 3253857 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Krugpot denies it today; says his words are 'taken out of context'.

What a mendacious little scumbag the man is.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:33 | 3250560 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Now that the crony capitalist's of the U.S. have offshored so much employment what is left?  FED war!

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:35 | 3250562 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 This "tinderbox" is just [Discovery Channel] waiting for a breath of oxygen. Did you see the Butter Fly'

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:40 | 3250658 Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

The existence of this war is taking place within a highly integrated market as financial. This would not do anything but generate large profit opportunities.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:38 | 3250570 The Heart
Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:31 | 3250914 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Jew cock suckers.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:30 | 3251359 Marc To Market
Marc To Market's picture

How long will Zero Hedge tolerate and accept this racist slander?  Shame.  

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:50 | 3251401 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

How long will the world tolerate global government by Jew Central Bankers?

Do you honestly believe the entire German population just suddenly decided to kill them because they wear stupid little hats?

Shame on usurous counterfeiting Jew Bankers.

You can blow me.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 10:41 | 3252714 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

There's a ton of sentiment and there are a copiuos amount of comments I don't agree with and/or often find offensive.

I believe 14 of my ancestries, 27 of my religions, 38 of my organizations, 55 of my philosophies & 109 of my dogmas have been sacked and pillaged with brutul venom at least once, and often many more times.

Someone even insulted my mother once.

If that's the price to be paid to be able to visit one of the few places remaining that comes closest to allowing freedom of speech, it's so miniscule a price to be paid as to be quite insignificant.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 15:55 | 3253863 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I thought your mum was excellent!

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:48 | 3250584 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Here's another war. Banksters unleash sars virus on British population.

The World Health Organisation on Saturday urged countries to be vigilant over the spread of a potentially fatal SARS-like virus after a new case in Britain brought the global number to 12.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:39 | 3250654 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

" V "

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:53 | 3250590 PAWNMAN
PAWNMAN's picture

It's the epitome of ridiculous to see all these morons at the G20 claim that there is no currency war ongoing. Is there a Central Banker, anywhere in the world, with even an ounce of credibility remaing? What a bunch of lying, thieving assholes! They need to bring back the ritual of being tarred and feathered. With Mr. Bernanke as the first victim.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:14 | 3250704 bigwhiffa
bigwhiffa's picture

Tarred and feathered? More like handcuffed and hung from a tree!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:34 | 3250917 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Cut their limbs off and put em through a compost shredder.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:55 | 3250594 Marc To Market
Marc To Market's picture

We tend to be more accepting and less critical of views that we happen to agree with.  Are there testable hypotheses here or is stringing one assertion after another ?  It is another example of every thing we find bad in the world put at the US feet.  The currency wars are the US fault because it pursued unorthodox monetary policy to address the financial crisis at home and the economic fall out, which includes low inflation and low growth and high unemployment.  Please....

The fact that some countries who enjoy trade and current account surpluses refuse to allow their currencies to appreciate very much--not only China and many countries in East Asia but also the Middle East is that part of the currency wars ?  In my experience, of all the things that move the nearly $4 trillion a day fx market, policy makers wishes and verbosity tend not to rank very high--yet this is the realm in which the currency war is being fought.

Lastly, a more compelling argument, if that is what this post is, would include addressing counter evidence--such as increased bilateral trade deals and negotiations, including the US-EU, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the EU-Canada, the EU-Singapore, the EU-Japan, suggesting that the so-called currency wars are not translating to trade wars.  

The yen has only begun falling in the last six months.  It has been pursuing QE for a nearly a decade.  Sterling made new multi-month highs in Dec before falling 5-6% this year, well after the end of the BOE's gilt purchases.  

Sloppy thinking, leads to shoddy analysis, weak understanding of the world, and poor investment insight.   

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:37 | 3250729 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Everything you say would make sense IF the dollar were not the world reserve currency.  But it is.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:58 | 3250809 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Yen likes rand. I'm hedged against some rand.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:47 | 3250847 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

Everything that Marc To Market said would make sense if it wasn't irrelevant as to why Fed, the USGov, and their useful idiots like Krugman are traitorous criminal bastards who shoul be in prison.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:39 | 3250921 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

With Bubba and his friends.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:56 | 3251208 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

He said :"The fact that some countries who enjoy trade and current account surpluses refuse to allow their currencies to appreciate very much" Fuck if you take this for a fact what did he say that makes sense ?
"Me reserve currency man from the hood, making shoddy small
arms that sell all to well domestically , me no fail "

South China gold yuan or golden Reichsmark should yield
to a hyperpowers non-existent claim to somehow hand over
all assets for "due clearing " ?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:09 | 3251228 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

Tariff’s seem to be nasty only for the people of the USA. Every economist from krugman to our austrian school all maintain free trade (impacted by currency value of course, devalue for advantage) is very very good and tariff is very very bad.

Well in todays actual world we have tariffs in USA of approximately, for imported autos ,of less than 2% while the EU places a 16% tariff on USA produced cars..yet the EU is all for America having a free trade policy, but not them it seems, one could conclude that the free trade lobby may benefit from unilateral free trade, for us .I maintain (not a PHD economic pro) that free trade has been a weapon against the economic health of my country. (USA) and recent trends in jobs and exports support this. The powerful multi national banks and companies are the winners as well as the NWO one world .gov types, who would a known?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:06 | 3251449 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

The US has no real trade relations left, it`s the sad truth.

Mercantile trade distortions on unspeakable US-sponsored EU laws like making parallel imports as much a crime as importing counterfeit goods (!!!!) has the handwriting and lobbyist wringing of US multinationals . Their criminal
business distortion models as in printers at cost but
ink at 800% profit are perfectly legal in Europe, thanks
to excessive lobbying. When in fact all the crime syndicate
leaders and their executives should have been arrested
long ago. Monopoly commissions being rendered toothless
long ago, it is now perfectly legal to sell ink cartridges that got sourced for 20 cents at the Asian OEM for 40 dollars within a monopoly brand authorized distribution.

Free enterprise/trade anyone ? The answer to such excessive
mercantilism is barricades !

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:46 | 3251135 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

your view presumes a number of things as well, mainly an equal playing field. Ultimately our strategies will backfire hard, but the US shares a lot of the responsibility

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:04 | 3250607 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

I am speechless after reading Krugman's and the Atlantic's drivel.  People pay a high price for not digging deeper than for what they want to hear..

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:09 | 3250617 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

He is a shit for brains lefturd cocksucker and at least the average ZH reader understands that. Make no mistake though, this lying fuck is well paid for his propaganda.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:11 | 3250620 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

It is neither a currency nor trade war. Since all central banks collude to manage the debt environment, the real purpose is to limit labor costs for production and concentrate revenues to a select few people. 

Having people think they have a dog in this hunt is just laughable. Taxes and fees reduce the value of your labor and steal your ability to effect the market and where you wish to invest your wealth. 

It is theft and monetary sterilization in one easy operation. All currencies are crap. Your desire to become wealthy is all they need to maintain the status quo. The common people will do what they're told, but the capable ones might question the process. Luckily, they are easily bought off- sex, drugs, nice homes, expensive meals: your contributions to tyranny are a measure of your worth to our overlords. 

We cannot fight this system, because we neither understand it nor have any control over it. They have put it in the hands of "the people" and called it democracy. You cannot convince a captive population of animals fed and cared for in a manner where they believe they are well off. 

We can only abandon it and refuse to participate. You can't run- they're everywhere. 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:01 | 3250684 kito
kito's picture

Agreed, the idea that there is a currency war is ridiculous...bernanke giving billions to european banks, the cbs stepping in to manipulate the yen when needed.....rickards is a jakass......central planning is exactly that....pulling the strings of all currencies in a synchronized fashion....

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:43 | 3250924 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

The currency war is real.

You're an idiot.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 09:38 | 3251085 kito
kito's picture

I'm assuming the sarc button was on

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:03 | 3251104 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I think you put too much faith in the ability of tptb to collude.  There is always a joker in the deck, someone who wants more than what's allotted.  Carnivores will turn on each other under the right conditions.  Besides, you can dope the currency all you want, but you can't make producers individually accede to producing at a loss.  All the Krugmanites and liquidity junkies are high as kites at the moment.  Ben just printed.  That high will wear off and the junkies will turn back to hungry hungry hippos for real goods with real value but there will be none to have.  You wouldn't have guessed at the happywild party the night before a crackhouse murder that the inhabitants would have shot each other over missing cigarettes.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:32 | 3251177 kito
kito's picture

Really??? Central banks dont collude?? Tyler hasn't shown time and time again the uncanny synchronization of the currency faucets turned on?? Cbs dont engage in gold swaps?? After japans tsunami, the cbs didnt come together to support the yen?? Are you kidding me? The euro isnt being propped up??????There are no currency wars, and you are a dumbass for believing otherwise....

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:08 | 3251634 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

There is collusion among banks, not among every single firm producing every single good on earth.  If the trade war won't be fought among governments, they will be fought among private firms, or by quality going galt.  In that case, the war is internal between a nation's government and her firms, or internecine, whereby commerce and finance/government engage in dysfunctional relationships which can only go on until it can't. 

Why not throw yourself off the GWB if its all so hopeless?  Really man.  Go cry in your beer.  fuckin Jersey.  (I'm from Jersey, so I can say that.)

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:53 | 3251200 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You're either a troll or too ignorant of the Elites to have taken the time to reference the corporate directorates of the largest and most important industries. They all sit on each other's boards. Whether you consult the membership rolls at the CFR, the Trilateral Commission, Bilderberger, Davos or any other groups, some too secret to have been revealed.

The Elites do not need to control all corporations, just the important ones and ones that can exert control over the actions of the market. 

You obviously haven't studied the great depression, or you would already know that producers WERE forced to produce at a loss. 

You want to believe you have options, that the market functions in a handicapped manner and is only awaiting some natural force to bring it back to normal. This will never happen short of global revolution. 

We are SLAVES. You can choose to mitigate its' effects, but if you choose to participate in their game, a slave you will remain.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:25 | 3251670 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

If I'm a slave, I'll see you Thunderdome.

Guess what?  All is NOT homogeneous in the halls of powerful.  Ergo, the continuing existence of resource wars.

Go run towards the fan blades, slave, I only bandy about with free men.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:00 | 3251722 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

In blissful ignorance, I see.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 04:31 | 3252515 Seer
Seer's picture

I think that there's two operational planes here...

Yes, TPTB have a united front via their System,

But, behind the scenes, as deep cracks are forming in the System, members of TPTB are jockeying for their own "king of the hill," in which case any "united front" as we see it (through the lens of the System) may not be all that unified.  I think that the Euro is a perfect example of this- this entire spectacle even shows the fracturing/competition in a not-all-that-united-front light.

TPTB's boat rode on top of the masses.  This seemed an accepted arrangement for ALL, TPTB, individually, as well as the (most of the) masses.  It's The System.  With the boat now taking on water (System breaking down as a result of there no longer being sufficient growth medium) TPTB will be less unified, looking to toss each other over the side of the boat in an effort to keep it afloat for a bit longer.

ParkAvenueFlasher, please correct me if I am mistaking your meaning.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:32 | 3253960 BigJim
BigJim's picture

It's true that as the spoils of feudalism start to shrink, the predators will start fighting for the scraps.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 07:30 | 3251027 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

It's also about government against private. By devaluating, government tries to kick the day of reckoning down the road. Government de facto bankruptcy is the real evil. The blame the other country is only a side show of the realy horrible state against private drama !!!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:22 | 3251249 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Brilliant Sean7k! Have only one vote to up you !

"Your desire to become wealthy is all they need to maintain the status quo"

Is all we ever talked about but was never true in Europe
and increasingly not so much for the young in the US.

Times have changed, no-one wants to exceed or stand out,as
it is heavily penalized as in socialist and redistributional

They think rich or wealthy are dirty words, just as generations before them thought being aristocratic and in the know was dirty or imitating those in being seen as bourgeois and educated got them shunted.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 04:48 | 3252522 Seer
Seer's picture


In nature "more than necessary" is (in the long-term) as unsustainable as "less than necessary" (which only works in the short-term).

The ability to exploit massive amounts of stored energy has allowed humans to collectively operate in the "more than necessary" category.  The cruel joke is that we believe that our good fortune is due to our cunning, and as such we have pushed MORE "more than necessary."  Perpetual growth on a finite planet isn't possible, so what we've passed as "cunning" is really ourselves out-cunning ourselves- collective hubris.

The "excess is good" meme effectively means that we've COLLECTIVELY programmed ourselves (via "competition" for growth) for a BIG die-off.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:15 | 3250629 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Trade wars have intent, virtuous or otherwise.

Currency wars are when the lies finally live out their life cycle, and come home to roost.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:19 | 3250633 CunnyFunt
CunnyFunt's picture

There's no real difference in their effects, and, per Montega's rationale, both can be justified in the same terms.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:20 | 3250635 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Currency devaluation is not a trade mechanism.  It is just plain and simple theft.  It is the looting of the people's wealth to fill the pocketbooks of the banksters.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 04:08 | 3250944 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

These ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Devaluing currency makes products cheaper relative to other currencies. This is a defacto subsidy for otherwise poorly run companies, making shitty products.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:07 | 3251107 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

In the deluge of devaluation, the streams of quality are tainted by products that would not survive deflation and the subsequent flight to quality. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 04:59 | 3252529 Seer
Seer's picture

"This is a defacto subsidy for otherwise poorly run companies, making shitty products."

Is this really always the case?

What of transnational corporations that shift manufacturing from one country to the next in order to seek better margins via lower wages and or less stringent government regulations (such as lax environmental regs- tolerates more environmental damage)?  I'm no tax expert, so maybe I'm missing something here (how national registration affects this).

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 08:21 | 3252584 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I think you can file that under "exporting inflation", in this case you export an entire parasitic firm.  

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:21 | 3250636 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Trade wars sounds better. ( desensititized)

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 05:09 | 3252534 Seer
Seer's picture

Actually, I think that it's trying to "sensitize," in that it tends to push people toward thinking in terms of nationalism.

All of this was set up quite some time ago.  The Blue team (US) was pushing the "They! China is manipulating their currency" propaganda years ago.  Sure, the Red team (China) was doing this, but, there's really never been a case in which the global economy hasn't been engaged in this.  The brush was stoked and now the spray gun is coming out... the global economy has painted itself into a corner; there is only one outcome: System Failure- BAD SYSTEMS FAIL (and ones based on perpetual growth on a finite planet are clearly wildly flawed).

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:37 | 3250653 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:04 | 3251318 Curt W
Curt W's picture

Somehow that does not have the same effect reading vs hearing

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:50 | 3250669 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Why is it THAT every substancial piece of rational global trading Intricacy is placed on Zero/Hedge?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:51 | 3250670 Umh
Umh's picture

This is nonsense "if they each try to push their currency down, the end result is at worst to leave everyone back where they started". If I take eggs run them thru a blender and then put them back in the carton they are definitely changed.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 06:07 | 3252549 Seer
Seer's picture

"If I take eggs run them thru a blender and then put them back in the carton they are definitely changed."

Yup!  All this devaluation is actually entropic.  And, this is in regards to a global system that is marked/measured in growth.  I'm not thinking that we'd just "end up where we started," that is, the starting point is a LONG way back, back to a point in time in which not all countries could trade between themselves (trade sanctions withstanding).  Think about this with respect to how globally dependent most manufacturing is today.  How easy is it to restart a manufacturing plant/operations? if it's been idled for an extended period? how about if MANY plants/operations have been idled for extended periods of time?

I'm with you on this.  It's more "scrambled eggs" (when expecting to make hard-boiled eggs) than some sort of cryogenic state of suspension with (expectations of) reanimation on the horizon.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:27 | 3250716 Brixton Guns
Brixton Guns's picture

Krugman is king of the assdouches, keynesian posterboy for the NWO.  Absolute cognitive dissonance, with great intent.  I gotta admit Harvard is one bigass production line manufacturing assdouche after assdouche just like Yale and Princeton.  This is the same guy who told us "sales taxes and death panels" are how we move forward.  Id like to kick Krugman down the road a bit....

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:47 | 3250929 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Krugman Jewgman.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:35 | 3251182 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

If you have nothing intelligent to say I suggest you shut the F... up.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:55 | 3251425 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Shamed to be a Jew Banker?

You could just shoot yourself in the head.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 06:09 | 3252550 Seer
Seer's picture

I don't believe that people should be told what they can or cannot say, but let's face it, name-calling is pretty childish. Oh, wait! Enslave the Child- Oh! I get it!  Carry on!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:33 | 3251368 Marc To Market
Marc To Market's picture

Shame on Zero Hedge for allowing this racist garbage to be on its site.  

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:36 | 3253974 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Did the nasty man bait you with some anti-Semitism? Awwww.

You're not difficult to upset, are you?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:53 | 3250749 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Just show the math. US widgets sell for 95 cents. Jap widgets sell fir $1.00. Depreciate the yen by 10% and Jap widgets now cost 90 cents. Is this any different than the Jap government placing a 10 cent tariff on US widgets, or offering a 10 cent tax break to Jap widget makers?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 06:14 | 3252552 Seer
Seer's picture

"Widgets" are a subset of the larger class of economic trade, which runs on top of currencies.  I think that you can apply the adjective "systemic" to currencies; not thinking that the same can be said for classes of widgets.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:54 | 3250751 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

What is Krugman going to do when his "print forever" theory blows up in his face?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 03:49 | 3250932 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Same as he always does.

He'll continue to suck cock for a living.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:37 | 3251185 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Flexible currency is the best form of currency when  it comes with a very disciplined banking system and no systemic use of Governement purse in good times. If the governments were running a tight ship during good times, and spending only when there is the type of collapse we have, Keynes would be correct all along.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:57 | 3251437 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:19 | 3250776 DUNTHAT
DUNTHAT's picture



AUSSIE usp=sharing"> usp=sharing

US DOLLAR usp=sharing"> usp=sharing

EURO usp=sharing

KIWI usp=sharing"> usp=sharing

LOONIE usp=sharing"> usp=sharing

MEXICAN PESO usp=sharing

RUBLE usp=sharing

STERLING usp=sharing"> usp=sharing

SWISSFRANC usp=sharing"> usp=sharing

YEN usp=sharing



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:58 | 3250807 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

The end result of every societies' Debt Super Cycle is war.  First it will be in the form of currency and trade that will end in Gold repatriation.  Finally, it will come to bombs and bullets.  We are five years or less until World War III.  And as Ablert Einstien said, "WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:00 | 3250812 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Gamma Gets``````````````` IT

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:06 | 3250820 billybobtx
billybobtx's picture

Yay getting tracked by 10+ trackers right here in River City, thanks Tyler!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:22 | 3250836 atm0sphere
atm0sphere's picture

So long as on paper it ends in a net gain, regardless of the duration, Krugman will be gunning for it..

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 04:48 | 3250962 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

... and I quote from:

In a recent Wall Street Journal interview with Jim Rickards, Jim says that the export market share premise is “nonsense.”

“The way you promote exports, by the way, is not with a cheap currency. That’s nonsense".... and FREE is no longer the most popular word in the advertising business.

... and from September, 2011:  It's War!!!!  not.


The risks of associating a war between paper currencies with a war on paper currencies and their anonymity:


Off with their mullets:




Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:26 | 3250981 falak pema
falak pema's picture

...This is partly because American money printing has exported inflation to the world, as a result of the dollar’s role as the global reserve currency, and partly because these states already own a lot of American debt, and do not want to be paid off in hugely-debased money...

Pax Americana started this in 1971 as it anticipated the oil import splurge, all the while it indulged in hi deficit spending (great society/Nam war). It got out of hand with the first world auto indexation of labour salaries to inflation. Volcker stopped that brutally. RR/Maggy killed the labour/inflation link and lo and behold first world became a lo inflation zone as the outsoucing helped also 'cos Chindia helped that lo cost trend to deflate imported goods cost; especially when the $ surged.

Its the FIRE economy, where all the uber gravy was created by Reaganomics/NWO, that has subsequently inflated the first world monetary pump beyond redemption.

Money production in a fractnal resvre system is by definition endogenous money creation, outsourced to PDs by the CBs. The State can then exert pressure on this money supply made out of thin air by PRIVATE sector two ways : by taxing it to recover some of that free money, privilege that reserve status gives it like nowhere else; or by increasing the base interest rate to control its cost to the private sector. The arbitrage mechanism of this monetary endogenous inflation for all non reserve currencies is the exchange rate, as the external balance then fluctuates its value in terms of other countries. 

The US has abused these mechanisms beyond the pale of reason, since thirty years, by agressively using their money inflation, their hegemoney of world FIRE economy, and their control of commodities real prices via petrodollar link which protects  their own market. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 06:43 | 3252558 Seer
Seer's picture

I love it when I see demonstrations of people who get it!

I have to wonder whether the Big Boys KNOW the ramifications of the System, whether the US Big Boys (with, perhaps a nod from some of the others [such as UK, Japan and Canada]) were allowed to run this up, to create the military machine to control the access to "critical" global resources.  By default this would imply that ALL KNOW that one day the music will stop, that the "critical" resources will be greatly depleted (beyond levels sufficient to maintain existing global systems) and or become increasingly more removed from the "global trade" system.  I'm thinking that they MUST know; Brzezinski pretty much laid it all out in The Grand Chessboard.

The [global] system [of growth] no longer has enough energy to hold back entropy let alone to grow.

Back in the 1970s one of the Forbes clan suggested that the US use up everyone else's oil first*.  If you combine this with Brzezinski's views and then look at what's been going on, well, it's not looking so good for "team growth!"

* How's that for a big-time capitalist, essentially suggesting that US oil be nationalized!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 07:36 | 3251028 new game
new game's picture

Gold anchors a nations currency to a standard that forces congress to be responsible and live within its means.

Deficets cause gold to leave the treasury which in turn are the check and balance to force a balanced budget.

Excess currency reserves would be used to demand gold be exchanged for that irresposiblilty. This is why the fuckers will never go to a gold stardard-it will be forced upon this nation when it is too late and we are begging for mercy-tooo late as our oppressors will shut off the credit-ultimate bond bubble burst/krugman eater reduction act of 2015 time frame.

The rest of the world will laugh at the dollar as we squandered the dollar reserve power til it was defensless by krugmans policies of ultimate demiss.

The banks and wealthy ARE  accumulating along with every nation that isn't clueless.  Individuals are stacking as  they should.

When this comes to fuition, it will be the have nots and haves, that is after the military might is exhausted because it is broke.

The nations that see our obvious folly, will move in for the kill-revenge for the years of opression by our economic hitman policies.  The corporations will be under attack and the bought and paid for military will be spread way to thin to defend.

Oil will be the ultimate decider. We have the balken fields to extend this time frame, but it will  be a national emergency "war effort" like WWII as this nation conserves and bands together sacrficing all to make one last stand as we are cut off from the resouces neccessary to function.

Banksters know this and will try to be above the fray safely hiding in there castles with stacked gold.  unless the sheep turn to the real purveyers of this mess...we will be the pawns of their power game.

Wake the fuck and say nein to this madness.

Buy a gun, close your bank accounts with the bigs-use a credit union, put all your excess reserves in gold, pay off your debt and minimalize and get planning for this outcome-NOW, AS TIME IS RUNNING OUT...


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 08:21 | 3251037 new game
new game's picture

Ultimate survival post;


1 get rid of gas guzzlers-all of it. all those cylinders take enjoyment from your life.

2 reject health care-put all that money in reserves and look into essential oils, real food and da, exercise of that body.

3 debt free-ultimate freedom

4 get help to deprogram the marketing brainwash your brain doesn't even realize is happening every moment- dreaming or awake-reject the jones syndrom.

5 get rid of that smart phone as it is dumming you to the point of not being able to think.

6 reduce hours to da man for real hours of life. gardening, shopping thrift stores to save even more as you now have time-THE BIGGEST SINGLE REWARD!!!! no excuses allowed, unless you are just one lazy fucker.

7 hone skills to be a do-it-yourselfer- the rewards are imeasureable.

8 get rid of the tv or move it out of the main living area-turn on music instead. read a book-hello.

control your media intake and visit z.h., but understand c.dis as the world is changing but not like you might think.

sleep on big decisions until 100 percent sure of outcome.  purchase only what will used to its full utility. fuck china trinkets, fuck any snake oil type people and most of all be paranoid!!!! it will save your ass some day.

9 seek like minded self reliant minimalists by attraction of a new life free of bankster power over you.

10 get a bike and start enjoying a shit ton of life you have been missing out on...

Benifits of this life style are so many i don't even know where to start and is your life, your choice.

but, by doing these, the benifits will become obvious...



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:18 | 3251325 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Could have made an escape on No 1, but I foolishly read
on and you are right.

Pulling the rug and the plug from under my live long addiction of V8 cars makes no sense to me. I had my first V8 merc while still being at school, never got below s-class in that brand
and still have a barns full of those automobiles
I still cherish and no longer use.

But all those cylinders taking enjoyment off my life ?

I just had my American made SUV upgraded to an AMG, just to keep balanced, no cylinders added, just torque and volume.

V8 is the line in the sand for me, I rather walk.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:54 | 3251613 new game
new game's picture

me and mrs have a car, live a modern life, just that i bike to a p.t. job, she gets the car

a few cylinders here and there-stihl ect.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 09:10 | 3252618 Seer
Seer's picture

Comments aimed at all...

#1: Get smarter!

"1 get rid of gas guzzlers-all of it. all those cylinders take enjoyment from your life."

Gas guzzlers don't waste "gas" any more than guns kill people.  Vehicles are a TOOL.  As much as I detest the fucking things, a Hummer could be seen as being well-suited for use IF actually used to the best of its ability- if it were used to transport several people over rough terrain: sadly, most are misused, used to transport a single occupant over paved roads; most are brandished as status symbols.

For the overwhelming majority of my adult life I'd owned nothing but four-cylinder automobiles.  And just a few years back I'd been commuting by bicycle (and no, no silly fucking motors on it) for FIVE years straight (drove an automobile only ONCE because I'd misplaced the key to my storage where my bicycle was stored- was running late for work).  While I still have four cylinder cars (my own; my wife has hers [pre-marriage]), I now have an eight cylinder, "gas" guzzler truck.  I use the car to move myself distances.  I use the (twenty-year-old diesel truck [I can work on it] to move STUFF (mostly farm-related stuff]  [shorter] distances.  I also have a tractor, and though it's only four cylinders, I would no more try running it down the highway than I would try running my car all over the land (or try to haul big loads of stuff).

IMO it's SMARTER to consider vehicle use as payload miles per gallon than the more two-dimensional "miles per gallon."

"2 reject health care-put all that money in reserves and look into essential oils, real food and da, exercise of that body."

Concentrate more on being healthy and less on "insurance."  I don't prescribe what people ought to do, other than to NOT do some of the obviously bad things, for this as it's up to them to figure it out; AND, everyBODY (and mind) is different.

"3 debt free-ultimate freedom"

"Debt-free" is a great concept, but one must be open to hedging opportunities.  I'm too conservative to do this, but many ZH-ers have suggested/promoted/engaged-in? racking up debt to purchase PMs*.  My only debt is a mortgage, and rather than exhaust my liquidity completely in order to wave the "deb-free flag" I opted to hedge for the possibility that one day that there might cease to be someone knocking on the door to collect the mortgage payment; this has allowed me to put capital into other things I deem meaningful for the future.

* In some cases people have openly bragged that they don't intend to pay the loan back.  This isn't a mindset that I'd trust for doing business with: you sign a contract to do all you can to uphold your end of the contract.

ANYONE (except those holding full-recourse loans) can be "debt-free" by just up and walking away.  If you don't mind being a gypsy or a hermit this should be fine.

The SMARTER way, which would suggest that it's always better to have the most options available, would be to operate in a disciplined manner and only take on loans that you've determined have a high degree of certainty of YOU paying off, and that such debt is providing YOU with VALUE (think opportunity cost; think about time sensitivities- could you really wait until you've accumulated enough for full cash payment?).

"4 get help to deprogram the marketing brainwash your brain doesn't even realize is happening every moment- dreaming or awake-reject the jones syndrom."

Help, how?  From whom?

Here's all you really need to know to initiate a deprogramming: the FUNDAMENTALS OF LIFE ARE: FOOD, SHELTER AND WATER; there are 7+ billion humans on the planet and the planet's finite resources are getting scarcer.

"5 get rid of that smart phone as it is dumming you to the point of not being able to think."

What's a smart phone?  OK... I've never had one, nor have I ever touched one (I don't think; and, I've got a fair technological background): I don't even have a cell phone, but this is more for financial reasons then being a techno-phobe (though I keep saying that I'm a practicing Luddite).  Anyway, on to the "let's get SMARTER" angle...

If one could possible think about getting rid of one's smart phone then perhaps they are smart enough to use it meaningfully?  Isn't it really about being disciplined?

I realize that there's also the issue that using this stuff keep the System functioning.  While this is another reason why I shy away from this stuff, I think that the important view is that one shouldn't stake one's life on techno-gadgets/systems, as someday they won't function: ALWAYS have a contingency plan!

"6 reduce hours to da man for real hours of life. gardening, shopping thrift stores to save even more as you now have time-THE BIGGEST SINGLE REWARD!!!! no excuses allowed, unless you are just one lazy fucker."

Maximize the use of your time.  If you can get money from "da man" and can both use that money to "beat" "da man" and do what you wish (create the world that you want), then I see This as being a SMARTER way of looking at things.

BTW - One doesn't "save" money by spending it, whether paying "full price for something new or whether paying less at a thrift store.  Always think VALUE.

"7 hone skills to be a do-it-yourselfer- the rewards are imeasureable."

One cannot do EVERYTHING: this being stated from someone that has picked up skills ranging from diesel mechanic to carpenter , and from plumber and electrician to animal husbandry, to name a few (also gardening, baking breadstuffs and food preservation).  It's a good idea to hone/create a skill-set such that you can be of value not only to yourself but to others.

"8 get rid of the tv or move it out of the main living area-turn on music instead. read a book-hello."

TV?  What's that?  I have NONE in my home.  Too busy to be programmed!

"sleep on big decisions until 100 percent sure of outcome.  purchase only what will used to its full utility. fuck china trinkets, fuck any snake oil type people and most of all be paranoid!!!! it will save your ass some day."

Sleep on non-life-threatening decisions!  I'm not going to tell my animals that I'm going to sleep on the decision on whether to blast a predator, or to tell some intruder to not bother me while I sleep on whether to check any threat they might impose.

I've got "china trinkets."  I don't specifically call out for them.  If that's what's available for my needs then that's what I get.  In general, however, I will only purchase KEY/IMPORTANT things are of higher-quality.  "Trinkets" for one-off use are, I think, acceptable.

"9 seek like minded self reliant minimalists by attraction of a new life free of bankster power over you."

Again, being free from "bankster power over you" can really only come down to the debt issue: since banksters pretty much own/control everything it's kind of hard to escape their influence.  Yeah, don't befriend banksters...

Seek knowledge.  Knowledge will set you free (to engage in the "becoming").

"10 get a bike and start enjoying a shit ton of life you have been missing out on..."

I've got several.  They're TOOLS that I do not have immediate use for at this time (but expect that I will one day, again, use them).  I enjoy LIFE plenty, I have LOTS of it on my property.  I have the most wonderful friend/partner/wife (whom makes every day, no matter how stressful, no matter how physically demanding, feel like a holiday), friends and family.  Land and people... from my ex's grandmother (rest her great soul): "What matters most in life is who you love and who loves you" (and I still love my ex, and she still loves me {I lost her when I hopped on this train; she later figured it out and also hopped on the train]).  Also, I have a lot of enthusiasm (despite knowing we're all fucked) and I like to share it, in which case I hope people read what I write with this in mind and that i's not about bragging- I think it better to be an example than tell others what they should be (there are, however, in my mind, things that I believe, based on logical/rational argument/thought, people ought NOT be/do).

"Benifits of this life style are so many i don't even know where to start and is your life, your choice."

The name of the game is how long you can play the game [which is always too short] AND get more enjoyment than not.  Life isn't a race, stay away from rats...

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 01:56 | 3255275 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Thank you Seer and new game too for sharing your valuable thoughts of lives!  The young esp. will hv great difficulties to discern the essential values.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 07:54 | 3251032 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

my KRUGHOLE itches, bitchez

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 08:38 | 3251047 Cycle
Cycle's picture

I can't decide whether Krugman actually believes this stuff, which would make him an educated fool, or if he gets paid to look like he believes this stuff, which given his intelligence is more likely. He was all for Robert Rubin's "strong dollar policy" when it was killing American manufacturing, and blowing "New Economy" smoke out of his A$$. Now he thinks adding more water to sinking ships helps them float.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 09:52 | 3251088 knukles
knukles's picture

The Krugster appears to openly support whatever the "current" Democratic Party line is at any moment in the guise of learned intelligent Benevolent awarded commentary of the masses.

Note his platform.  The New York Times... not particularly independent fair or balanced, no?  More like the Official Organ of the People's Democratic and Free Shit Socialist Party of AmeriKa.

Note also the title of his column.  The "Conscience of a Liberal"'

Propaganda and Hegelian Dialectic, pure and simple.
Meant either to get the peasantry arguing about his frivolous nonsense and forgetting the big picture or supplanting information with affirmation.

Just ignore him.

'Nuff said

(But I must confess, he is ever so fun to use as a locus for intellectual ridicule and abuse....that is his very own accepted role in the Dialectic, folks!  Think of it, he comes here to the Hedge to convert the masses at his very own peril and ridicule knowing full well the futility of the effort)

PS.  My lawyer thinks his column is actually ghost written by a woman.  Think of the empathetic motherly tone of the One World Family It Takes a Village mentality.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:45 | 3251701 Cycle
Cycle's picture

You are right, knukles, the guy is an opportunist. So is the Nobel committe, having given a prize to a serial killer by proxy.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 09:20 | 3252625 Seer
Seer's picture

"the guy is an opportunist."

So, folks shouldn't take up an opportunity if it's available?

It's like condemning market "speculators."  The market works BECAUSE people speculate.  The options for not speculating would be, what, KNOWING which way a stock will move (isn't that insider trading?), or not having a clue and just tossing money down the "well?"

I dislike heavy-handed uses of buzzwords...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 10:27 | 3251121 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Trade wars/currency wars - if everyone stops spending, there won't be much of anything.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:41 | 3251180 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Krugman is right, what looks like trade war for the ill intended politicians and the naked economic eye is deliberate expansionary monetary policy to avoid deflation collapse. The result is relative currency weakness as long as the new currency units are not used in the local circulation. Once it gets used, lots of interesting things happen on relative currency direction, interest rates, shape of the yield curve and the PE multiples.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:01 | 3251442 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Look here you fucking Whore. Printing paper money is the same as stealing peoples money.

You ever wonder why the Germans suddenly decided to kill all the Jews?

Keep it up Jew, history repeats itself.

And you all will keep complaining about the gas chambers, but you just can't stop yourself from stealing now can you?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:19 | 3252160 kito
kito's picture

@enslave-i didnt know single cell organisms such as yourself are able to write!!!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 20:51 | 3252037 Tursas
Tursas's picture

Of course Krugman must be right when everyone wants to ditch him! By the way the Germans were also right!t

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 09:36 | 3252644 Seer
Seer's picture

You can kill people, but you cannot kill ideas.

The story of Hitler is classic story of the horrors of populism.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:41 | 3251188 Anonymous peon
Anonymous peon's picture

When the people in charge of a currency treat it like it has no value it's only a matter of time before everyone treats it that way.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:23 | 3251250 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

good article. thnx.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:27 | 3251353 DaveA
DaveA's picture

Once the population wakes up to these shenanigans and abandons the national currency both as a unit of account and a store of value, devaluation has no effect other than giving pensioners and civil servants a pay cut. Which does, in fact, make a country more competitive.

Hint: To teach children the value of sound money as a measure of value, ask them to draw a geometric figure (e.g. a square) using a ruler made of Silly Putty.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:34 | 3251931 trendybull459
trendybull459's picture

All in All its a play in two thing:quick and strong money disapearence or slower process,in first its inflations psiral plus bla bla bla War,Terrorism,in second scenario healthy correction into deflation cycle.The only question is when to cash out and do not miss the train,because "they" want you to cash first and be pitty for it second watching the prices you cashed in delfate at 50-80%,untill government monitise all things

we got new Forum in russia and in russian,but you can talk english(as most russians speaking it),to leave comments in translite or russian,what is good is that Russia absolutly free country if it apply to critics of their enemies,it takes some few minutes to be free from Big Brother watching being registred in

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 08:49 | 3255592 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

Nice info about the native Russian mail server: (mobile site: keeping some distance from the-all-seeing-eyes-BIGbro :-)  +1

from wiki:

In October 2010, announced plans for an IPO via the London stock market listing of a subsidiary – also called – worth more than $5bn.[7] The IPO will offer a stake of about 17% of the subsidiary. The subsidiary will include about a quarter of the group’s shareholding in Facebook, stakes in Russia’s two biggest social networking sites and The company has hired Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and VTB Capital to run the listing.

In March 2012, Yuri Milner has stepped down from the role of Chairman of and from the Board of Directors.[8] Dmitry Grishin was elected to the Board of Directors and appointed as Chairman of the Board while retaining his CEO position. There were no other changes to management or to the Board.[9]

According to Alexa data for June 2007, was the most popular Russian site on the web.[10]

In 2005 there were more than 30 million users with 25 million emails a day.

By the end of 2006 it was announced that a strategic agreement with Yandex was achieved about the use of a Yandex search engine instead of Google. This has been reversed in January 2010.[11]

In January 2007 30% shares of were bought by South African company Naspers for $165 million.[12]

It is reported by Grishin that the two other shareholders are the Digital Sky Technologies (DST) and Tiger Global Management (TGM).


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 10:16 | 3252700 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

The "Market Monetarist" would very unhappy with this article.  As would all Keynsian assholes.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!