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Milton Friedman On The Unholy Coalitions Of The Minimum Wage

Tyler Durden's picture




 

This week we were told that, by the magic of a non-deficit-increasing wave of our President's hand, the minimum wage should be increased to $9 (a 24% rise from the current $7.25 federal minimum wage) and anchored to inflation going forward. The rabbit-holes of whether this is a good or bad thing run deep and in very different directions. However, in three short minutes, Milton Friedman provides some critically clarifying truthiness on the unholy coalitions between 'do-gooders', 'special interests', 'trade unions', and the vicious circle that this non-market-based decision will create. "Do-Gooders believe passing a law saying nobody shall get less than [a minimum wage] is helping poor people (who need the money). You're doing nothing of the kind. What you're doing is to ensure that people whose skills do not justify that wage will be unemployed." It is no accident that youth unemployment is almost double the overall unemployment rate. We never learn... and as Friedman concludes, "it is the exact people who the do-gooders are trying to help that are hurt the most - the poorest!"

 

 

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Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:40 | 3249901 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ironic, but your small mind does not see it (see the embedded ad hominem in there?  never mind).

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:14 | 3249988 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hitler was a vegitarian, therefore vegetarianism caused the Holocaust.

That is the exact argument that has been made here.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:27 | 3250192 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Hitler war ein armes Schwein.

Er hatte keinen Führerschein.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:06 | 3250819 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Hitler wasn't a Vegan .... he liked his BUTTERBROT  (bread and butter) with his tea on the terrace with Eva Braun ! 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:28 | 3252167 meghaljani
meghaljani's picture

Holocaust did not happen. 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:35 | 3250568 malek
malek's picture

You know, when you think your logic all the way through, then for example the concept of "The Big Lie" cannot be true, because it was written down by an asshole named Adolf Hitler.

How about you and WCD try to get back to the original statement "it is the exact people who the do-gooders are trying to help that are hurt the most - the poorest!" and try to refute it.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:53 | 3249934 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

First of all, Friedman's monetarism was tried in the UK for several years until the UK economy fell apart/ deindustrialization and deflationary contraction. His economic platform was a fail. There was no real chance for monetarism to take hold in the US due to the fiscal power of the government and hegemony of expansionist finance. The private sector controls the US money supply (more control over money supply by the exchequer during Thatcher period but this was pre-Big Bang).

 

Ironic: I like deflation b/c I am a Luddite and monetarism requires more centralized control than neo-liberal economics/Washington Consensus allows.

 

Greenspan was a fake monetarist although he claimed to be one, he constantly offered more and more credit at least  possible costs whenever there was a bank in the world somewhere in the least amount of trouble. Result => moral hazard => bubbles.

 

As for minimum wage, there is no way for the workers themselves to bargain for it, they have no leverage. Any arguments that the 'market' can set wages for those with no leverage are mendacious and intellectually dishonest b/c the market is controlled by big business and finance. Low wages accompany de-skilling, the result is an incapable workforce ... the long term effect is a workforce that cannot afford the goods that it produces ... or a non-workforce that does not produce anything.

 

The only thing Friedman did right other than keep his swastika flags at home was to write 'The Monetary History of the US'with Anna Schwartz.

 

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:21 | 3250005 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Unions are a feature of the free market.  That is a large source of leverage, even in a monopsony.  Of course, monopsonies are rare, so most of the time, workers leaving for higher pay is enough to drive up wages.  Turnover is a cost too, after all, and if you wages are too low, you won't attract workers in the first place.

Many liberals are under the impression that you can just offer a job at any wage and the position will automatically be filled by some mindless idiot who will be your slave.  This is because they have no experience in the real world.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:42 | 3250134 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***after all, and if you wages are too low, you won't attract workers in the first place.***

So why is it that many of the minimum wage jobs are filled by people with college degrees? Is it because these people are desperate or is that they have decided that cleaning toilets is a rewarding, challenging career choice?

 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 05:22 | 3250976 Edmon Plume
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Because an effortless degree earns low skill wages.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:47 | 3250047 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

As for minimum wage, there is no way for the workers themselves to bargain for it, they have no leverage

Horsepiss. Employers must compete for the most suitable employees. They have no leverage now because government has continually intervened in the marketplace, and keeps dicking around with the currency.

the market is controlled by big business and finance.

At a time when we have the biggest government, and more regulations than we've ever had. You are conflating what we have now, which is controlled by corporations, with the free market.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:13 | 3250083 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

Thank you for making my point.

 

Meanwhile, the US has the world's (worlds') largest of all possible governments b/c the US also has 270 million automobiles which require fuel and place to run free like the wind (in traffic jams).

 

I'd gladly give up my government if you will give up your car.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 04:31 | 3250956 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Thank you for making my point.

I fail to see how pointing out the leverage that competition givers employees makes your point that employees have no leverage.

I'd gladly give up my government if you will give up your car.

False Dichotomy. Next.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:45 | 3250141 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

For some reason you down arrow doesn't work. So consider this a double down arrow

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 04:27 | 3250953 A Nanny Moose
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Feel free to make an actual argument, when you are able. The down arrow didn't work, because it doesn't need to work.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:57 | 3250678 yatikto
yatikto's picture

good tree produces good fruit.  bad tree produces bad fruit.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:52 | 3251307 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

That's very insightful, Chauncey Gardener.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 23:26 | 3252249 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Should we point out that Friedman and his wife Rose are jewish? Don't think Hitler would approve. I would like proof that Friedman's ideas are responsible for Argentina. The exact opposite is the truth as Argentina prepares anew for default.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:37 | 3249888 Stockmonger
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Mussolini appointed Charles Ponzi to be Italy's Treasury minister.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:38 | 3250033 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Confusing correlation with causation.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:07 | 3251637 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I will prefer Friedman to your moronic unsupported rants. Have you actually ever read any Friedman? Put down the hash and leftist websites and look at reality.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:26 | 3249851 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

"You didn't build that business".......so it's only right that someone else set the wages .....

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:37 | 3249856 CheapBastard
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What's a "Do-Gooder"?

 

 

"Urban Dictionary: do-gooder
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=do-gooder

See bleeding heart liberal."

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:29 | 3249857 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

After we've been through in the past several decades, why are you still taking this guy seriously?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:31 | 3249870 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Because some of these assholes here love anybody that hates poor people.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:30 | 3249863 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Can you imagine how glorious corporate profits would be if we can get people in America to work for free? That would surely fix the economy right?

Does anybody here really expect corporations to willingly pay the average workers a living wage? There needs to be a minimum wage and considering the rise of basic costs of living such as food and energy (not to mention Health care) in the last few years, $7.25 just does not cut it. And it's not the small business that pays minimum wage in America, it's the giants like Wallmart and McDonalds.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:32 | 3249872 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Another reason these "giants" (who can afford to pay for this "regulation in the public interest") are all for the minimum wage...to stifle any potential competitors.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:46 | 3249922 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Which one of these "Giants" is in favor of raising minimum wage? Where is this evidence?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:03 | 3250185 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Wal-Mart...a few years ago.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 05:33 | 3250978 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

Why not raise the min wage to $400/hour and we'll all be ultra rich!

Better yet, let's just print a few quadrillion and divide it among the citizenry - why even work at all for it?

Why not use price controls - that way, nobody will have to raise the minimum wage?

/sarc

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:43 | 3251190 DRT RD
DRT RD's picture

Newsflash, those jobs are not menat to support a family! They are entry level posistions.  Hell, most of the people that take those jobs are only worth $4.25/hr. My family and I own and operate 4 c-stores and a car wash.  Trust me I know.  It's just a tax increase on poor people, that doesn't account for the rest of the unintended consequences.   

 

And it's not the small business that pays minimum wage in America, it's the giants like Wallmart and McDonalds. 

 

We start out at minimum wage, we are also considered a giant according to ACA.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:13 | 3251650 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Hey, space cadet. In a free market would you work for free? Do you know what the proper wage for everyone everywhere in every profession is? I didn't think so. How much stuff can people who make zero buy at Walmart or Gucci? Nothing. That model does not work. Do you know that businesses small and large often pay well including benefits? Some are better than others like some people are better than others. At the end of the day you have to make more than you pay out...unless you are a government. You live in a fantasy world. I hope you don't vote but you probably do.

Only governments can drive wages to zero. All the governments that do this are on the left, by definition.

You know it scares me how many people read stuff like yours and give up arrows. Leftist ideology is fed by ignorance and fantasy utopian ideas...that never quite arrive.

Liberty is hard. It requires reason, thinking past the surface and having a firm grip on reality. It is often unpleasant but the results are satisfying...like hard work and productivity.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:32 | 3249868 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Freidman along with any other relatively rich person who decries the minimum wage, ought to try living on it for a year. They'd soon call a different tune.

What the minimum wage does achieve is to set a rather low hourly wage that then becomes the defacto level for all manner of jobs, many of which were much higher paid prior to it. It gives corporates and smaller businesses a 'get out of jail free' card when setting wage levels. "but it pays minimum wage" or "it pays above minimum wage" (yeah right, a few pennioes above) have become many businesses' mantra.

Is $9.00/hour really a living wage in the USA in 2013, or anywhere near it?????

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:41 | 3249906 ATM
ATM's picture

Two much better questions are this  - is the work performed worth $9/hr? And do I want to do the work for $9/hr )(or something else/)

Who the fuck gave our government to power to say it is or isn't? 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:02 | 3250181 Matt
Matt's picture

"Who the fuck gave our government to power to say it is or isn't? "

In theory, the vote of the majority.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:16 | 3251655 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Good point. Let's ask why Friedman and the majority of people who probably read ZH do not work at minimum wage and have escaped it. You see the Left always sees people as stupid and incapable without their protective leadership. Yet, the truth is motivated individuals given opportunity in free markets always succeed over time. They have to produce something of value for their fellow man over time and they generally look for where their labor gets the best return or where they simply enjoy the craft and lifestyle, whether a mechanic, waiter or PhD metallurgist. You cannot centrally plan that but you can screw it up and torture it.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:02 | 3249946 Turin Turambar
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FunkyOldEconomicIlliterate,

An offer of employment is a non-coerced, voluntary offer between two parties.  The employer voluntarily offers to pay a certain amount per hour because he'd rather have the labor than the money, and if the employee accepts the offer, the employee does so because he prefers the money to his other options; otherwise, logically, he would decline the offer.  If the prospective employee isn't happy with the compensation, then he is free to decline the job offer.  Nobody owes him anything. 

The only natural right that an individual has to a job is through SELF-EMPLOYMENT.  An individual has zero moral right to impose his demands for either compensation or work on another individual against his will.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:20 | 3251662 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I love you, man! See my earlier post. YOU got the basis of the argument right and actually Friedman missed it, at least in this video. He was right but he missed the most important point. If libertarian-right wing politicians would argue in Congresses and parliaments based on your argument we would win over time. The Left wins because we argue on their turf about the economic consequences which are frankly more vague and distant compared to the here, now and visibile large raise some individuals will get. Then leftists look like they care more and are compassionate...even though they actually did not spend their own money to fund the raises. As usual, they forced others.

Bravo!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:41 | 3251857 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

While Friedman speaks of free markets, his utilitarian philosophy actually undermines his professed positions.  Revolutions are not waged by gradualists.  Murray Rothbard's For A New Liberty has a brilliant treatment of this exact topic within the first 1 or 2 chapters. 

http://mises.org/document/1010/For-a-New-Liberty-The-Libertarian-Manifesto

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:33 | 3249875 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

The problem w/ Friedman is he can't hold his arm out straight any more because he shakes so badly, nor can he goose step ... arthritis.

 

He's always been able to do a good 'Dr. Strangelove' bit ... in that wheelchair.

 

What is it w/ Xero Hedge, a Nazi party love fest?

 

My Dad risked his neck to kill these people, now you asshats line up to kiss their feet? No wonder the US is sinking fast.

 

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:56 | 3250058 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

Well Steve, since he died more than 6 years ago, it's no wonder he can't hold his arm up.

Friedman was a Jew, so if your dad was risking his life to "kill these people" presumably your dad was a Nazi.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:15 | 3250088 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

He didn't die quickly enough.

 

Israel is filled with Nazi jews.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:23 | 3251667 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Should we tell guys like Steve the truth? Is it worth it? Should we tell him that "Nazi" stands for National Socialist?

The subtle unifying principle of all leftists is that they are suspcious of freedom. Free people don't always do what you want them to do.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:34 | 3249878 Stockmonger
Stockmonger's picture

Friedman is acting like Krugman here.  Price sensitivity for labor is relatively flat: there is work to be done regardless of how expensive labor is. McDonald's doesn't fire workers when the minimum wage rises.  It may raise prices and/or cut costs in other areas.  As long as the minimum wage rises across the board, all you are doing is increasing the poor laborer's share of the hamburger dollar and perhaps raising its price.  Paying below subsistence level doesn't help anyone.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:44 | 3249917 ATM
ATM's picture

What you are really doing is simply sending those low paying jobs overseas and creating fewer entry level opportunities for workers here to gain real work skills. If not then you simply have US made goods priced out of the market and replaced by cheap imports.

Then ass wipe leftist complain that jobs have been shipped overseas by greedy companies while they shop at Walmart.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:26 | 3251671 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

To be leftist is to be myopic. McDonalds' will not fire workers as long as people will pay $10 for a burger. What leftist deny or don't get is that markets, not businesses set the ultimate price for products. if you double the wage and benefits for all McDonald's workers but the market will still only pay the same price for your burgers...you don't fire the workers. You close the whole business.

Leftists are only geniuses when they talk to each other. That is why when they take over people like you and me go to reeducation camps.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 01:43 | 3252412 Stockmonger
Stockmonger's picture

Obviously there is a limit to how high you can jack up the minimum wage before the whole business is unviable.  But tying it to inflation is not unreasonable.  And if all business is affected, burgers are no more expensive than alternatives, at least in labor costs.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 01:40 | 3252404 Stockmonger
Stockmonger's picture

How many goods are produced by minimum wage workers?  Few.  Mimimum wage is mostly service workers that can't be sent overseas.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:38 | 3249896 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Obama is crazy if he thinks this minimu wage increase will work.  They don't teach reality in college and on top of that, most politicians are lawyers including Obama.

Friedman is right.  I used to run a small business with 35 employees.  For the lower earning ones, I would lay off rather than pay more as the productivity in respect to profit dollars is limited by such labor.

The current and past administrations have no clue.  How could they?  They never walked in my shoes.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:17 | 3250091 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

You sir are a patriot. We should all just layoff everyone!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:17 | 3250777 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Why not?  Do employers have some sort of moral duty to keep workers on a payroll, one from which you are blissfully exempt because you have avoided ever employing anyone?

No worker has a right to receive pay in excess of the value they produce while on the job, and it is utter folly for you to suggest that an employer must do so to assuage your feelings of guilt for the poverty that afflicts the world in general.

There have been many periods and places in human history where the honest labor of a man was not sufficient to feed and house himself and his family.  When that happens, people die from exposure and starvation.  It has happened many times before.  It can happen again, anywhere, at any time.  Denying that reality is a form of hubris which will only hasten the next great downfall. Civilizations continue to exist due to complex systems involving resources, energy, knowledge, and hard work.  Any government effort to fix the price of any system component will only hasten the rate of collapse.

But when times get tough, the impulse to legislate prosperity (or print our way there) takes over.   And there will always be at least one lobby (in this instance public employee and service industry unions whose jobs are hard to send overseas) willing to write the new laws, and their P.R. departments will be eager to sell the fallacy that this "will be good for all of us", when, in fact, it will mean more for them and less for everyone else.

 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:29 | 3251678 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Kickaha, people like you give me hope. Liberty and true economics take reasoning and a grip on reality. The left neither reasons nor confronts realisty even when the painful lessons of it's own failures fill the history books. just one more try with the right geniuses and amount of power will work the next time is what they tell themselves.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:41 | 3249898 Brixton Guns
Brixton Guns's picture

Do y'all hear that incridble sucking sound from the south of the border?  It just got a LOT louder.  All this really does is give even more incentive for illegals to invade and establish residency the right to vote and moar free cheese.

If anyone's seen the film Machete, this agenda does not bode well for Amerika.

Slick Barry knows this damn well, and as destructor-in-chief this is topmost among his agenda items, to crush whats left of Amerika and bring us all to our knees begging for the NWO.  A mass invasion of illegals who will support his communist policies is essential to achieve that goal.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:46 | 3249924 ATM
ATM's picture

It creates a black market for below min wage work filled mostly by illegals who are happy to do the job. Cut that hole in the none-existent border fence because we are going to really have a big influx of new "undocumented Amerikans".

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:53 | 3249938 css1971
css1971's picture

Mexico's booming.

The flow of people is going to be the other way.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 19:45 | 3250402 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

300-400 million americanos, (most of them pissed off about taxes, government intrusion, and poltiical correctness) and less than 100 million mexicans, now which way is the immigration problem again. (where did we get Texas and California?)

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:39 | 3249900 ZH11
ZH11's picture

"But if the workers could live on air, it would not be possible to buy them at any price. This zero cost of labour is therefore a limit in a mathematical sense, always beyond reach, although we can always approximate more and more nearly to it. The constant tendency of capital is to force the cost of labour back towards this absolute zero."

"In reality the individual consumption of the worker is unproductive even from his own point of view, for it simply reproduces the needy individual; it is productive to the capitalist and to the state, since it is the production of a force which produces wealth for other people" 

 

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:32 | 3250111 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Marx it zero dude.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:40 | 3249905 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Oh Milton, you may say what you want, but you propped up dictators and empoverished nations who only chose the path of development, emancipation and independence, some of whom had the biggest middle classes in their regions (until of course, you got to put your fingers over there...). You're so full of bullshit.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 06:32 | 3251011 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

The Chicago Boys as Milton's students were called, were very influential in Chile, now a near rich nation

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:43 | 3249915 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

"skills that don't justify" $9hr.  Race to the bottom enroute.

Maybe we will end up cashless like StarTrek.  Eventually the world's brightest won't be worth $9hr.  Oh wait, that would be a big pay increase in India.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:43 | 3249916 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Governments should not have any say over wage rates. Period. The market will decide what wages should be.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:18 | 3250227 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***The market will decide what wages should be***

 

Without government mandated minimum wages you are left with the "Iron Law of Wages"  It is a proposed law of economics that asserts that real wages always tend, in the long run, toward the minimum wage necessary to sustain the life of the worker.

In other words you can reduce wages to sustenance level. But the worker can not work for less that what he needs to buy food. Luckily for the major corporations in this country we have food stamps. Let's grind the poor bastards some more.

 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 05:45 | 3250984 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

So what you are saying is if we let a free market decide, we'll end up with the same system we have now, only with less government intrusion.

BTW, you perhaps don't know so I'll tell you:  econ is NOT a science.  It's magic combined with a lot of rubbish.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:37 | 3251690 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Your Iron Law of Wages is a leftist nonlaw and stupid with a bit of basic reasoning. Labor is a commodity like anything else, e.g. gold, oil, air, etc. When you have labor or skill set shortages wages must rise as you are in competition with others for that labor. Even in a monopoly you are in competition from other things that person might do. If you have labor excesses then labor prices are lower. This applies to specific professions as well as the overall market. During the housing boom, housebuilding skills including electricians and plumbers were in short supply. Demand skyrocketed, pay rose and the signal for more people to move into the professions worked. When the market crashed the opposite happens. BTW, the boom and crash were caused by central planning forces.

If what you said it true, then where does it stop, with line laborers, their foremen, the white collar, up to the execs? Running this malthusian theory to it's logical end proves it's own fallacy.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:22 | 3250235 Matt
Matt's picture

I will agree with this, only if the market also determines what money is, and what form payment should take. And if there are no subsidies anywhere in the world for anything, and all laws are equally enforced.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:43 | 3249918 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Government always accomplishes the opposite of the STATED goal.

Could have something to do with being a con and criminal organization.

hujel

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:44 | 3249919 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

Minimum wage is for teenagers and losers.

Show me an adult making minimum wage and I'll show you a person that did not take full advantage of their free education and is probably lazy as well.

Go ahead and raise the minimum wage to 'a living wage', why not $30 an hour? Then let's see how many jobs we can automate into extinction.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:48 | 3249929 ATM
ATM's picture

Make it $100/hr. Why not. If $9 is good $100 is better right?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:03 | 3249968 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Fuck it, get rid of the minimum wage all together and then we can stop shipping jobs over to china!  Full employment at just above a slaves wages!! Let's create a permenant pauper class with no ability to advance... we should probably take away their voting rights first though... fuck it, who needs democracy, let the aristocracy, oh excuse me, I mean "job creators" decide everything... they know best right?

My favorite part will come when the peasants revolt again and start taking some heads off.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:30 | 3250106 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Why can't you see the big picture?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:58 | 3251311 toys for tits
toys for tits's picture

He's standing too close to the painting.

 

 

And he's an idiot.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 05:48 | 3250986 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

It's hard to scare people when your description of what things will become under the system you don't want matches the way things are under the system you do.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:10 | 3250077 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Minimum wage is a base.  As one acquires more experience, their pay advances.  Human Resources will tell you then can only give you a certain percentage more than the income you had at your last job.  If you have no experience in this position or are new to the work force in blue collar jobs (waitresses, hotel maids, office  clerical staff, customer service reps), you start at minimum wage.

but having been married to a business man, I know that when rates of pay went up, he passed the cost on to his customers by raising the cost of his product accordingly.  One McDonald's Big Mac will be about 15.00 I predict.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:26 | 3250248 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

I have a better idea. Let's cut the minimum wage to three dollars an hour. According to Friedman the job market should boom and we'll have full employment. Yah right!

 

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 15:52 | 3249935 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Instead of $9 fiat dollars per hour , How about paying people in Silver or Gold. Lets debate that.

 

Fuck you DEBT MONEY

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:00 | 3249957 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

We haven't stolen enough yet, we can't allow a minimum wage to keep up with inflation because it would harm our need to take everything.   Purile vomitus from another empy suit that bult a career telling people greed is good.  I guess one of these days, every recognizable talking head is going to disapppear behind the moat.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:03 | 3249966 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Minimum wage is, er, the least of it. The whole liberal meme of caring is BS. 80 years after the New Deal and 50 years after the Great Society we know with certainty that liberal help doesn't. Welfare and all of the give-aways create dependency. Liberals exact a high price for their help--a vote. Making someone dependent in order to monitize their vote is enslavement.

http://wbsm.com/judge-judy-clip-shows-us-exactly-what-is-wrong-with-the-...

Forget about the money. Look what liberal help has done to the lives of this young black woman and man (boy?).

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:30 | 3250018 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

that clown in the video is so fucked up on coke.  money from taxpayers to buy smokes and booze and coke and cable tv and doritos and drive around in a car ....................

look what socialism has done to society.  I feel sick.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:58 | 3250061 Phoenix_Rising
Phoenix_Rising's picture

The minute you make poverty comfortable.....it's over

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:28 | 3250102 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

That was awesome. Judge Judy is logical. Those two standing before her are beyond stupid. 70k down the tubes indeed and another 100 years of fraud to boot. 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 20:50 | 3250154 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

That's my first reaction--about the money. I came to see the human tragedy. "Me being me." "I'm 21. She's 30. Come on." His conversation is her compensation, that and his "business". The inner city economy is funded by welfare flowing through unmarried, usually unemployed mothers--with the men travelling amongst them for shelter and food.

Liberal help has laid waste to the black community. Now, Hispanic leaders are striving to set up their own plantations.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:10 | 3249977 I am on to you
I am on to you's picture

Milton,there is nothing wrong with charity???NO,thats excatly whats wrong,charity meens,somebody is poor,and that what is wrong:

And yes,on continental Europe,minimum vage meens,that you have enogh to have a desent life,or shall we say ment,cause due to the faboules Union,no not the union of worker,the other one,the Union of slavelabour,Technocratium,destroyed this,with the free labour moving around,working for slavevage.

Rich people always have gooood feelings for the pooor,the let then stay poor,so they, CAN give Charity,just ask the king, The Pope along with UN,they are always busy saving the poor,since 000 something, they been on to this!

And two dollars dont give any sence!Thats 10 DK,cant even pay the buss to go to work, for that!

 

Instead.mr smart man,let everybody have same vage,poof no charity!

Amen!

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:18 | 3249999 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint.
When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
Archbishop Helder Camara

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 05:58 | 3250993 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

When you give your own food to the poor, you are a saint.

When you eliminate hunger by eliminating the hungry, you are a communist.

-Edmon Plume

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:35 | 3250026 Chris88
Chris88's picture

Yeah, we all know that Europe's house of cards is really holding up well.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:39 | 3250034 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

charity for banks maybe. i always remember Reagan chiding those 'welfare queens in cadillacs' while he doled out corporate welfare to  (phony) defense projects. (phony defense spending is what sent Duke Cunningham to jail and a trillion dollars in deficit spending into offshore banks)

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:35 | 3249992 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

yeah! from here hence, y`awe smitten'd... traverse back to the arbitrary masochistic comfort of yee`company store?

milton was a sadist, period!

his analysis negates all empirical statistics for why ump was on the 'always... the past-tense of an uppity timeline via de`flation'-- were it not for juicing the economy, alone?-- this subtle indiscriminate passe Qe, mask'd as a  'govern`mental' handout... from the treasury/fed with love-- was, but a soulless scheme of grandiose altruism divvied-up by sir`faustian and friedman himself? 

jmo

Ps    could never stand listening to that arrogant bastard and his, 'holier-than-thou', 'CBS' gibberish... 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:05 | 3250480 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

btw... sooner, rather that later, when all the lonely broke and fleeced sheeple are in a funky amorous and 'hip-hip-hooray' cheeky, albeit... fait`accompli agreement, that raising the minimum wage was a great-mistake?... being inconsequential to their somnambulism zombie well-being! thusly the cause and effect of all their predisposed-caustic misery-- then, and only then, this so called grandiose illusion begins to manifest... this litany of freebies ie., "SNAP" cards, iPhone's, home-rent subsidies, student-loans, unlimited unemployment tenure, et.el., will confiscation begin... and, in earnest!... snatch'd away for their own good, and that of their freedom loving, 'country...`living quarter-masters'!

http://www.wvculture.org/history/wvhs1503.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU

thankyou Tyler

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:17 | 3249997 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

It's just like the counterfeit markets. The only reason they exist is because the name brand are way overpriced and the counterfeiters are able to find a sweet spot. Same will happen with minimum wage.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:34 | 3250024 Chris88
Chris88's picture

Minimum wage = claiming that supply/demand don't apply to labor because of government's magical scarcity abolishing wand.  

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:43 | 3250041 forrestdweller
forrestdweller's picture

is he sanying that if there is a minimum wage, the jobs will move overseas?

 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:10 | 3250044 Monedas
Monedas's picture

We have exhaustively tried every variant of Socialism with out success .... couldn't one fucking country give Capitalism a run for it's money .... maybe North Korea could redeem itself .... by volunteering as the world's laboratory .... for unabashed Capitalism .... it couldn't be worse than what they got !

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 16:54 | 3250056 israhole
israhole's picture

I agree with Milt on the minimum wage.  I also think that letting Jews control the printing presses is a sure way to poverty and dispossesion.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:02 | 3250062 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

This Friedman stuff is classically stupid and superficial "economics."

Money is backed by murder. What has actually happened is that the power of each individual to rob and to kill has been assembled and channelled through governments, which have been taken over by the smallest groups that were the best at being dishonest and violent.

The masses of Zombie Sheeple do NOT use their own political power, because they do not understand it, and have been brainwashed to not want to understand that. What the masses of people lack the most, and have the least skill at, are being competent citizens, that control the social money/murder systems, that are operated in their name, but which are more and more being used against their interests.

"Minimum wage laws" are a tempest in a teapot. The big social storms are the corporations controlling governments, with the banks' privatized power over the social money supply being the central feature of the social hurricane that is still building and building its overall organized systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence.

Minimum wage laws are just another goofy wrinkle in a shrivelling system of sovereignty that is more and more sequestered.

Minimum wage laws are going to becoming increasingly insane as the technological power of computer/machine entities increases!

Indeed, our whole social system is based on a money/murder system which is able to lie about itself to the maximum possible extent. Since that is the case, we get an endless parade of bullshit solutions to problems, which deliberately ignore what the real problems should be, namely radically different death controls.

The current minimum wage laws WILL do what Friedman says. However, what is being done to some human beings today will more and more be done to all other human beings in the foreseeable future. Sooner or later, in one way or another, we should make our political economy catch up to our other sciences. However, at present, old-fashioned goof balls, like Friedman, will continue to be respected for relatively revealing some "truth" that some other people can understand.

However, it is the truth that almost nobody understands which is what we actually need much more!

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:04 | 3250072 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

This Friedman stuff is classically stupid  --

Yes, wasn't this was recorded when minimum wage was $2.85/hour?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:00 | 3250067 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Like that reality show where they make over someones house .... the whole world could observe the Capitalist make over of North Korea .... except, who would do the make over .... we've lost credibility .... look at some of Socialist cunts that post here ?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:11 | 3250080 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Milton is correct. After getting rid of min wage the govt would have to remove itself from all programs which create artificial values. And while people think that programs benefit the poor the truth is that the programs benefit the rich the most. Rents would be lower without social housing. Medical care would be cheaper. The defence budget would be lower, sorry we can only pay you 5 bucks an hour to stand in the way of the bullets. There would be no Federal Reserve iether. The only thing the govt should keep is a tax on land and resource royalties.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:13 | 3250082 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Obama never explained why a rise in the minimum wage is necessary.  Because of inflation caused by the government, that's why.

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:26 | 3250100 deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

We picked fruit with the migrant workers in Michigan when I was in my teens and no one held a gun to my head. I bought my first shotgun from my earnings. I guess that would be child abuse today!

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:29 | 3250104 Catullus
Catullus's picture

It's very simple. The minimum wage doesn't create jobs. It only makes it illegal to pay labor under a certain rate. That can only result in fewer people being employed. Net net, the minimum wage causes more unemployment.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:43 | 3252186 which way weste...
which way western man's picture

ergo more communist (nee demokrat) slaves (nee voters)

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:31 | 3250108 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Raising the min wage has the following impact

Those who have a job, might make a little more (probably not), but as a result if they do... they will pay higher taxes.

 

Those who don't have a job, will probably find it harder to find a job because they just became more expensive to employ (23% more expensive).

 

Those who have jobs, run the risk of loosing their job because of the forced raise in their wage, so they will be under more stress to perform.

 

 

The govt just wants everyone to earn as much "income" as definable by the fraudulent income tax laws, so that it can be garnished in taxes, (they want to push people into higher tax brackets with inflation.

 

Inflation in wages causes direct and real inflation in prices, makes it harder for the poor to buy crap.

 

Everything they do is fueling dependency on govt.

 

 

If they wanted to actually help the US economy.

1) Huge Import Taxes, Tax everything that comes in from overseas by 50%.(protectionism).

 

2) Abolish income taxes for anyone earning under 2 Million Dollars a year. (Promote Savings)

 

3) Stop taxing cap gains, that (promote investing).

 

4) Stop printing money to pay for promises that should of never been made.

 

If people are poor they will move to where they can succeed, you don't fucking pay them to sit there and stay in poverty. Survivalism works because people are motivated by their stomachs.

 

5) Stop bailing out corrupt and fraudulent banks.

 

6) Liquidate all debt from 1980 to 2013, just force all the banks to write it off and give them a tax break in return for the next 5 years (stop foreclosing on collateral so the economy can grow, because banks suck at managing REAL CAPITAL (REAL ASSETS) they are only good at buffing numbers.

 

7) The last step should be to abolish or lower the min wage to like 5$ an hour (because the economy will be soo good that 5$ will afford a family of 5 a full meal), right now Pizza is almost 20$ and people are protesting on bridges blocking traffic because the tolls are 40$ just to cross 20 miles of "toll road".

 

 

 

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 20:44 | 3250490 devo
devo's picture

Okay Peter Schiff/Henry Hazlitt.

I read Economics in One Lesson, too.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 01:23 | 3252400 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The math is this simple. When the minimum wage actually paid drops below the cost of living the people will riot, even if just a little. When the cost of living is more than twice the minimum wage actually paid there will be mass murder in the streets.

Clear?

Now go on & argue your case but do so knowing those facts above hold.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:06 | 3250156 devo
devo's picture

In the extreme, this is a call for slavery/unpaid labor.

I doubt the result is so linear...i.e. the increased price of labor (price fixing at a given minimum wage rate) is probably just passed on to consumers. Result is more likely inflation than unemployment.

Youth unemployment is classic correlation/causation. There are many reasons for it.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:19 | 3250231 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I'm checking out Denmark because I'm thinking of living there. Can I rent an apt for 1000 bucks?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 06:50 | 3251019 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Denmark&city=Copenhagen&displayCurrency=USD

according to this website you  can rent a one bedroom  apartment outside the center of Copenhagen for $827 on average per month

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:29 | 3251171 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In the extreme, this is a call for slavery/unpaid labor.
_____________________________

Slavery? But there is no need for slaves.

An unpleasant side consequence of an abundant world, which might explain why 'americans' have been working so dedicatedly to ending the abundance era.

You do not hire people because they are cheap.

That 'american' Friedman rehashed the old 'american' mantra of infinite growth. 'Americans' know how to do that.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 17:56 | 3250168 baldski
baldski's picture

Can any of you snarky commenters that hang out on this site explain to me how Denmark survives when the average minimum wage is $17/hour? Last time I looked Burmeister-Wain, Aalborg, and A.P. Moeller are still located there. They have not moved to China. So, smart asses, how do they survive doing this? By the way, they have determined that a person needs $17/hr to live and not in poverty.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 21:07 | 3250173 devo
devo's picture

See my post above--the cost is passed on to consumers and everything rises. Gas is $10/gal in Denmark, too (not that a wage manipulation is the only cause of this).

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:46 | 3250292 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Denmark is just another Socialist state on the way down.  (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/business/global/17denmark.html?pagewan...).  Like all Socialist states it will bloom for a short while and then collapse.  Sweden, Norway, and Denmark are all losing their entrepreneurs to countries that don't tax and regulate them to death.

 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 01:20 | 3252398 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

socialism is fully sustainable with good accounting and consent.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 20:49 | 3250496 Catullus
Catullus's picture

There is no minimum wage in Denmark.

Try another one.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:34 | 3250647 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Minimum wages in Denmark "None, nationally; instead, negotiated between unions and employer associations; the average minimum wage for all private and public sector collective bargaining agreements was 103.15 kroner per hour, according to statistics released on March 1, 2009[5]""

! Danish Krone = 0.18 USD that would give you 103.15x0.18=18.57 USD in 2009.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 08:52 | 3251053 Catullus
Catullus's picture

That's not a minimum wage. That's a negotiated salary. There's a huge difference.

There's also no burger flipping union in Denmark and that's what minimum wage jobs typically are.

So whatever that trade unions, universities and major employers set wages. It's not the same thing.

Try a source that's not Wikipedia.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:38 | 3250273 Rusty Trombone
Rusty Trombone's picture

Cry me a fucking river with your bullshit claims of lost jobs and inflation.  Minimum wage - yeah as in - "I'd pay you less but it's against the law".

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 06:09 | 3250995 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

LOL - more money competing for the same goods is the very definition of inflation.

Inflation is the reason why they are trying to raise the minimum wage, not necessarily the other way around.

"They" are the cause of the inflation that makes the dollar worth less, which requires them to grandstand about how they are fighting to pay you more, because you'll need more dollars to exist at the same level as before they caused the inflation.

I'd pay you more for a higher-skill job, and so would every other business.  But if someone with your qualifications will work for less, I'll hire them.

I'd move my company overseas and employee people who will work for less, so as to save you the shame of having a low-paying job.

See how that works?

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 19:07 | 3250333 billwilson
billwilson's picture

US has the lowest minumum wage in the developed english speaking world ... yet countries like Canada anbd Australia have higher minimums and lower unemployment rates ... go figure ... maybe the folks making minimum can actually afford to buy stuff ... creating more jobs. go figure.

Friedman has always been a MORON.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 19:10 | 3250340 working class dog
working class dog's picture

The perpetual intersest growing , debt based money system cannot stay in business without a new crop of low paid slaves to keep the ponzi scheme alive. Guess  what Bernanke, Dimon, Fuld, Pauslon, Buffett, Obama, Bush, Cheney , Condoleza Rice, and the rest of the international team players, there is no way the US can grow its way enough to keep up with the massive debt you have run up with your schemes. The system will reset and everyone will get hurt. After the collapse maybe who ever is left standing can start all over again, this time with the government printing it's own money without the ursury of the central money fiat system. Maybe then monetary theory will be taught in school if there are any schools left.

Ask anybody on the street "How is money created?" and the said fact is we have a country of uneducated people who if thier eyes were opened would revolt.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 19:21 | 3250357 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

If you have a company that relies on paying minimum wage to the majority of its employees, you don't have a LEGITIMATE business, IMO.

That raise in minimum wage will raise the cost of a burger/pizza to what? Certainly not more than a one-off, few pecent. Well, wages etc might be 40% or 50% of costs... yeah right, like a dominoes pizza has labour costs of that much. In the UK dominoes pizza selling for £12.99 has ALL IN costs of about £1.75, max.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 20:02 | 3250432 cosmicinsight
cosmicinsight's picture

All those who espouse free market live in utopia.Their is no such thing as a free market and there has never been and there can never be.Free market ought not to be dependent onTBTF bailouts, tarps and QE's.As far as revolving door clash of interests,free wheeling money is free speech and policy,laws and regulation are determined by lobbyists is not free market.Where power wealth and media collude to create hype that drugs us to believe that all is well and more of the same will help is not a free market.When highly leveraged rampantly speculate with exotic financial products whose notional value is thrice the globes assets is not a free market.

 A free market to be really free ought to  exist on its own with the survival and thrival of the fit following same set of ethical laws beneficial to the society at large.Where violators and manipulators punished according to the severity of their misdeed.Such a market under no guise would made to be dependent on a fiscal stimulus and the central planners intervention to help it to sustain. While how passionately we debate raising the minimum wage in this supposedly free market of ours.The choice is stark for those dependent on the minimum wage either try working to make a living or destitute themselves and be a moocher to the free marketeers.How ironical is it that right now  the so called free market disciples and the minimum wagers are both dependent so much upon the borrowed and created money.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 20:29 | 3250470 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Price controls always work, just ask the Soviets.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:12 | 3250624 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

Isn't there a law for "too f%&king poor to live" minimum wage.

We should just follow market dogma, supply of workers is infinit, therefore

I can pay them a dollar an hour, or they can fuck off, if they prefer.

Already, without reading much, I can kick his theory into the weeds.

"guaranteeing that those who do not deserve the raise, will be unemployed".

Well, duh. The employee has to be good , or he's in deep shit anyway. What

sort of argumental is that?

And, none of his ass-kissing fans ever produced any data on that. So, we're

supposed to believe what Chicago's Favourite Fascist said on a talk show?

I thought we were reading ZH to get wise.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:51 | 3250671 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

It starts in elementary school with people like you, doesn't it?  You think you can fool around and skate by because the system lets you.  You expect the world owes you something:  employers, governments at all levels, family, friends.  You never think that if you can't produce, not just enough for yourself, management, share holders, but the ever growing Government, your efforts are not worth your pay.  Guess what?  That is called math and it rules the universe.

To this day, I carefully balance the time dedicated to development of my skills against the time I reserve for family and friends.  The company I work for pays me what I'm worth to them, but if they did not, I'd find another company that did.  Yes, I recommend you get wise or be satisfied being poor, bacause the economic distortions that allow you to think the way you do are about to re-balance.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:23 | 3251251 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

I love Americans that think they are worth more than they really are.

Hey dude, if you're so valuable go move to the Arctic, because apparently you have some god-given "skill" that is the same any where on the planet.

You need a little dose of WAKE THE FUCK UP.

You're just LUCKY. Stop looking down on other people that are less lucky and wise up.

 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 01:18 | 3252393 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Corporations get "limited liability" to break tons of rules, laws & destroy real capital in the form of food, water, air quality & land use, eminent domain & special deals with government.

You're damn right they owe me something.

Level the playing field again so they aren't above the law & we'll call it even, shall we?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 06:28 | 3251007 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

You missed the irony:  WHO doesn't deserve a meritless raise in this case?  The government - who has no idea who your employees are - has decided that all employees merit a pay increase.  BUT employers know that an increase from $8 to $10 per hour, for example, can be paid for by letting every 5th employee go and making the rest of them EARN that extra by working harder.  Not to mention the savings on workman's comp, FUTA, FICA, SUTA and all the other monies employers have to pay for each employee.  It's a net win for the employer.

Would you be upset if the same government who has the power does the inverse - lowers the minimum wage, so that suddenly all employees across the board get a couple of bucks less per hour, deserving or not?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:18 | 3251241 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

Again, the main BAD assumption with raising the min wage.

What if a company is making huge profits because of the currently low min wage and glut of labor in the workforce?

Why do you assume that if you raise the limit, the company can't simply absorb the costs?

Or just equally important, why do you assume a company would hire more people if the min wage were lowered? Why wouldn't they just make more PROFITS?

The impact of Raising/lowering the min wage is not that simple.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 22:40 | 3250656 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Milton Friedman:  One of the last adults to leave the room.  Economically, we are left with the equivalent of "Lord of the Flies".  R.I.P, you good, articulate, and patient man.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:13 | 3250702 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/23/business/23scene.html?_r=0

 

"His proposal, which he called the negative income tax, was to replace the multiplicity of existing welfare programs with a single cash transfer — say, $6,000 — to every citizen. A family of four with no market income would thus receive an annual payment from the I.R.S. of $24,000. For each dollar the family then earned, this payment would be reduced by some fraction — perhaps 50 percent. A family of four earning $12,000 a year, for example, would receive a net supplement of $18,000 (the initial $24,000 less the $6,000 tax on its earnings)."


Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:57 | 3250750 Stuffs And Stuff
Stuffs And Stuff's picture

.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 23:49 | 3250739 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Not only does this mean reducing employees or number of hours at low wage businesses that hire poor untrained workers, but the poor tend to shop at these types of businesses and a higher minimum wage wil cause those businesses to raise their prices!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:11 | 3251231 batterycharged
batterycharged's picture

Uh yeah, how's that working out for Walmart.

The reason you can't throw out some blanket statement about "they will lay off workers" is because you have no fucking clue how large marginst are because the company is fucking it's employees over.

Walmart makes $100s of billions because they pay a poverty wage with no benefits.

Would they cut workers?? Or would they compromise to maintain some profits??

Also, look at the recent sales at Walmart, apparently paying slave wages comes back to bite you in the ASS!

 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 01:14 | 3252387 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Indeed I'm probably on my 4th or 5th year of Walmart-boycott.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 00:31 | 3250789 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

Friedman killed the last vestiges of the gold standard once and for all with Nixon in 1971. He left us with the system we currently suffer under, a system of irredeemable fiat paper. Brilliant as he may have been, for that error, I'm afraid his legacy is ruined.  In the words of Walter E. Spahr; "Irredeemable currency is a cesspool in which disease and human conflict are spawned. It is a wrecker of people, of families, and of nations. It is a road to the despotism of dictatorship"

Or how about Keynes, "...it engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction which not one man in a million is able to diagnose"

Here is a great paper about Milton's legacy, and what he left us with.

http://www.professorfekete.com/articles/AEFWhereFriedmanWentWrong.pdf

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:19 | 3250831 Monedas
Monedas's picture

How much do minimum wage employees pay their baby sitters ?     Minimum wage law drives entry level work off shore !  Milton Friedman was a brilliant and articulate economist .... we need a million more just like him !

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 01:47 | 3250846 Decimus Lunius ...
Decimus Lunius Luvenalis's picture

He said "negro." That's a code word for "black" wihich is a code word for persons "of color" which is a code word or a code word for "voter."  We must disregard anything ol' Milt says because he used code words of code words to accurately describe the decision process of a small busineess owner.  If you don't think so, live in Europe for a few years where their socialism has been the the most effective cementation of the class system since Napoleon. 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 06:31 | 3251010 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

dog whistle we much?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 02:30 | 3250876 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

This is bullshit. 

So who is the employer going to hire at 2.50?  A rocket scientist?

He still has to hire somone to clean the shitter.  Instead of 2 bucks that person gets 2.50.

Friedman and his school of thought was totally wrong - he is a fucking idiot sycophant to the elites and says whatever furthers their goals.

 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 08:57 | 3251056 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

either you left your sarc switch on or you are most definately not a rocket scientist...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 04:48 | 3250963 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Jew trolls can go blow yourselves.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 06:26 | 3251006 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

first a mandated minimum wage and then a mandated hiring law...  problem solved  (sarc)

Milton smacked down the keynsian way

 

jb

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 09:31 | 3251079 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Some interesting comments in this thread.

But really, shouldn't you all be doing something more useful this weekend, like buying a mattress?

It's your patriotic duty.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:56 | 3251209 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

that was the bush line, go out and shop and beat those terrorists.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:05 | 3251151 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The four winds... That is what you might call 'american' people.

'American' people blow in so many directions.

It is funny. So we have the looting class,ummm, well, no, they prefer to parade themselves as the productive class, aka the middle class, that keeps blowing about production, productivity etc

On the other end, they can cheer for an 'american' economist connecting minimal wages to unemployment etc

Since when a producer hires people because they are cheap?

No matter how cheap one is, if the environment is no supportive to production, you do not hire. You wont add extra, unneeded consumption just because it is cheap.

Oh, wait, we are speaking about 'americans' whose mantra has been that the more you are consuming, the more you will get to consume in the future.

So, yeah, make it cheap as cheap, and 'americans' will consume. Even when there is nothing to consume. As long as it is cheap.

'Americans', led by the middle class, are also well known to choose people who are represent them.

Just as the bike race Lance Armstrong was that miracle of hard work, probity, honesty, tolerance, resilience etc that 'american' economist as a champion for 'americans' is of the same wood.

JKC, when you think that the Romans put on their thinkers the obligation to suicide if their way of thinking was shown to be a disaster, you understand how much of an advance for humanity 'americanism' has been.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:26 | 3251167 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous travests reality here:

The four winds... That is what you might call 'american' people.

'American' people blow in so many directions.

It is funny. So we have the looting class,ummm, well, no, they prefer to parade themselves as the productive class, aka the middle class, that keeps blowing about production, productivity etc

What's the point of this text? Withdrawal from reality?

Was it not part of Mao See Dung's plan to create one's own reality?

Chinese citizenism government lives in reality, they know their assets, cards hand and play them quite well. But to discuss that, one might deal in reality. Not in AnAnonymystical fantasy.

JKC

Alas, alas, alas, quadruple alas, now the point of this text is become clearly: AnAnonymous promoting his Chinese citizenism fastfood franchise Just Killed Cat.

When you think that the Chinese citizenism citizens put on their wokkers the obligation to female infanticide if their way of cooking was shown to be a popular menu item, you understand how much of a regression for humanity Chinese citizenism has been.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:32 | 3251175 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

No words about the requirement for a word like USism?
Or how the behaviour of US Americans from day one was a source of shame?

Too bad, that expression of 'american' sentiments was very funny...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:44 | 3251191 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous, the blossom of Chinese citizenism growing from the crap strewn roadside, said:

No words about the requirement for a word like USism?

Hey, if that's your new catch phrase for US citizenism, ummm I mean americanism, go ahead and use it now as your label for all world problems. Perhaps substitute it for US citizenism in your rejected thesis and resubmit to the thesis committee. Perhaps the term brings 88 double lucky prosperings gratuitously.

Or how the behaviour of US Americans from day one was a source of shame?

No surprise here. When you are running a racket of distorting the fabled past and farming the myth, best to stay on the distortion racket path with fabrications of diligence.

Too bad, that expression of 'american' sentiments was very funny...

Perhaps it is good then for inclusion in your act at the Chinese citizenism squat-down roadside comedy club.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 00:11 | 3252329 MeelionDollerBogus
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'American' wants wage making splendid 'iDignity' over glamorous trade benefiting 'economy' for algorithmic high frequencing turding

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