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Mort Zuckerman: "America Remains In A Jobs Depression"

Tyler Durden's picture


Authored by Mort Zuckerman, originally posted in The Wall Street Journal,

Jobs! President Obama has set a record. In his speech to Congress on Tuesday, he uttered the word "jobs" more than in any of his previous four State of the Union addresses. His 45 mentions were more than double the references to any of the other policy ambitions encapsulated in his speech by such words as health, education, immigration, guns, deficit, debt, energy, climate, economy, Afghanistan, wage, spend or tax (the runner-up).

If only the president's record on unemployment were as good.

After four years America remains in a jobs depression as great as the Great Depression. But the crisis isn't seen in that light because the country isn't confronted daily by scenes of despair like the 1930s photographs of bread lines and soup kitchens and thousands of men (very few women then) waiting all day outside a factory in a forlorn quest for work.

But the jobless are still in the millions across the land, little changed in their total since the 1930s: 12.3 million today officially fully unemployed compared with 12.8 million in 1933 at the depth of the Depression.

Yes, the U.S. population is much larger now, but 12 million out of work still means 12 million lives devastated. And that number masks the true vastness of the modern disaster.

The jobless today are much less visible than they were in the 1930s because relief is organized differently. Today in the "recovery," the millions are being assisted, out of sight, by government checks, unemployment checks, Social Security disability checks and food stamps.

More than 48 million Americans are in the food-stamp program—an almost incredible record. That is 15% of the total population compared with the 7.9% participation in food stamps from 1970-2000. Then there are the more than 11 million Americans who are collecting Social Security checks to compensate for disability, also a record. Half have signed on since President Obama came to office. In 1992, there was one person on disability for every 35 workers; today it is one for every 16.

Such an increase is simply impossible to connect to direct disability experienced during employment, for it is inconceivable that work in America has become so dangerous. For many, this disability program has become another form of unemployment compensation, only this time without end.

But the predicament of our times is worse than that, worse in its way than the 1930s figures might suggest. Employers are either shortening the workweek or asking employees to take unpaid leave in unprecedented numbers. Neither those on disability nor those on leave are included in the unemployment numbers.

The U.S. labor market, which peaked in November 2007 when there were 139,143,000 jobs, now encompasses only 132,705,000 workers, a drop of 6.4 million jobs from the peak. The only work that has increased is part-time, and that is because it allows employers to reduce costs through a diminished benefit package or none at all.

The broadest measure of unemployment today is approximately 14.5%, way above the 7.9% headline number. The 14.5% reflects the unemployed and three other categories: the more than eight million people who are employed part-time for economic reasons (because their hours have been cut back or because they are unable to find a full-time job), the 10 million who have stopped looking for work, and those who are "marginally attached" to the workforce.

The labor-force participation rate has dropped to the lowest level since 1981. It reflects discouraged workers who have dropped out of the labor force. If it were not for the dropouts, the formally announced unemployment rate would be around 9.8%, not the headline 7.9%.

Sometimes the employment numbers that are announced are simply not understood. January was supposed to have seen 157,000 jobs created. The news provoked relief and even enthusiasm in some quarters. But the supposed hiring was based on seasonally adjusted numbers—numbers adjusted to reflect regularly occurring shifts in employment, such as increased hiring of farm workers during crop harvests or retail employees after Thanksgiving. The real, unadjusted figures for January show that nearly 2.8 million jobs disappeared, which happened to be worse than the 2.63 million lost in January 2012. Even though the 157,000 jobs created were fewer than the 311,000 of January 2012, many commentators cheered because they don't understand the effects of seasonal adjustment.

So there is no solace in the statistics. Job seekers are only one-third as likely to find work as they were five years ago, and a record number of households have at least one member looking for a job, which affects everyone. And most of the newly available jobs don't match the pay, the hours or the benefits of the millions of positions that have vanished.

It typically takes 25 months to close the employment gap from the employment peak near the start of the downturn. Yet this time, more than 60 months after employment peaked in January 2006, nonfarm unemployment is still more than three million jobs below where it started.

The president's speech was not without sensible commitments, and the news of negotiations for a trans-Atlantic free-trade area is promising. Europe and the U.S. represent 44% of the world economy, but both have stalled. They (and the rest of the world) would benefit from freer trade. Europe and the U.S. would also benefit from common technology standards and simpler regulations. The bilateral talks have been conducted quietly and positively for some time (while the World Trade Organization talks have floundered), but it will need real executive energy to get an agreement with a real impact on jobs.

Ordinary Americans are looking for leadership and renewal. They know that a job is the most important family program, the most important economic program, and the most important national program that America could have. They also know that, by this standard, we have failed.


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Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:07 | 3251222 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

green shoots (himself)

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:32 | 3251269 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

Work is for suckers.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:31 | 3251363 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Did anyone actualyl expect Obummer to tell the truth, that he and his banker friends plan on driving us into the worst depression in history?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:55 | 3251616 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture



"A big war will wipe out these useless youths and make the jobs numbers better, taking the pressure off from us."


that's how bankers and politicians think.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:15 | 3251830 strangewalk
strangewalk's picture

The bankers are a minor part of the problem.

Over 17 TRILLION dollars of direct and indirect investment has surged into China from US businesses over the past 20 years, destroying or severely decimating entire swaths of American industry including textiles, shoes, furniture, automotive components, building materials, glass, tires, tool, die and mold making, electronics and assembly along with an alphabet list of consumer goods manufacturing, along with the associated support industries and supply chains, and is now extending into aircraft and jet engine manufacturing and engineering services--in short, anything involving labor or operational costs that could be reduced through outsourcing to a third world kleptocracy and or the avoidance of expenses related to environmental protection and worker welfare or safety.

And, since each job in manufacturing supports between three to six more in services, why is there any mystery of any kind remaining as to the real source of the unemployment problem?

The real axis of evil is represented by Clinton-Bush-Obama. These three fools were instrumental in giving America's industrial greatness away on a silver platter and in so doing it severely depleted the tax base along with increased social payouts which have transformed the US into a debt riddled basket case in free fall decline.

The bankers came in afterwards, using fraud, manipulation and accounting tricks in an attempt to create the illusion of a real economy.    

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:29 | 3251844 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

You left out Reagan, Bush. Spot on, according to plan.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 02:13 | 3252391 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture


Au contraire, when you have private banking interests using fiat money (that can be conjured at no cost and utilized without risk of loss, since the taxpayer covers all sour speculation/gambling/betting that they engage in purely for their parochial interests), with the power/force of law enforcing the exclusive, monopoly use of this fiat in commerce & transactions, and these private banking interests have literally-- not figuratively-- purchased the representatives, regulators & other state officials that are supposed to be guarding the hen house, you've allowed the fox total and free reign in conducting activities that are inimical to the interests of the nation as a whole.

And this is what we're witnessing playing out in real time, at a faster pace than ever before in American History (even more so than the prior Robber Baron era).

Washington D.C. and Manhattan are the epicenters of a private banking interest cabal that literally calls the shots on things as fundamental as what the volume of the fiat supply should be and to whom what % of it should flow, and the politicians, regulators and officials that are supposed to represent "the people" and be institutions that help ensure a level playing field and opportunity to succeed in a free market system based on merit have devolved into a revolving door, nepotistic, incest-ridden, corrupt system literally designed to thwart democracy and free markets.

Your claim that real political choice is lacking is correct, but you not only diminish, but eliminate, private banking interests exercising monopoly control over sovereign government as a primary cause of our downward spiral.

The political party "choice" illusion you've highlighted is a symptom of the disease, and not the disease itself.

You've mixed up your horses and carts, chickens and eggs, and causes and effects...

To top all of this off, there's an extremely high possibility that the damage caused by the private fiat money banking cartel that owns alleged sovereign governments, including that of the U.S., has already induced a permanently broken American Economy going forward (i.e. below trendline growth for as far as the eye can see, episodically entering into contractionary/negative growth much of the time), as measured in real AND nominal terms for many periods, with estimated losses of 22 trillion USD thus far since the onset of the Great Repression:

Banksters Cost the U.S. Economy $22 Trillion & Counting
Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:00 | 3251880 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture



From the 'South Park' cartoon show, hilarious, a full minute of American cartoon characters repeating

«   ... They turk arrr jaarbbs! ... They tirrk arrr jarrrbbss!! ... »

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 20:26 | 3252005 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

You know, of course, that we are majorly f'd if there is a war.  Its not just the jobs that went overseas, but any hope of making things for ourselves left, as well.  

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 21:54 | 3252134 EINSILVERGUY

Maybe in a protracted war fought on multiple front where men and material get bogged down,  but not one that is resolved in 60-90 days.

You have to know that there has always been this historical habit of assuming our enemy's are more advanced or ahead of us. In the 60's Kennedy attacked the Eisenhower administration for a bomber gap with the Soviets. The Soviets held a may day parade and squadron after squandron flew over RED square scaring the shit out of the intelligence analysts. Turns out the Soviets just had the same squadron circle over and over the parade ground. No gap, just the paranoid Russians trying to appear least impotent than they were and the paranoid US military fearing we were getting caught napping.

In the late 60's a Soviet fighter was caught going mach 3 doing an overflight of Israel and eventually landing in Eqypt. Again, scared the shit out of the intelligence areas and we suddenly had a soviet high performance interceptor that our F4's couldn't touch. The fighter was so fast the Israelis coudn't scramble aircraft fast enough. What really happened was the Soviet fighter's engine accelerated beyond control and while he hauled ass for a few minutes, he ended up burning the engine up and barely got it landed.

The US military still is the most superior fighting force that has ever existed. In the worlds of General "Buck" Turgidson   "I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed"

but the US is not going away anytime soon 





Mon, 02/18/2013 - 02:50 | 3252459 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

If every man's hand were turned against us, and I can see that happening, if we were on our own, we couldn't even clothe our own soldiers. They would have to let the nukes out to play.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 05:20 | 3252535 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

I don't think you fully understand the magnitude of the term "banker."

We aren't talking local banker, but the biggest kind of banker - the most powerful.

1. Bankers define money as debt - that happened in 1913 - well before the job exodus to China.

2. Debt money is Debt Money Tyranny - a system that transfers the nation's wealth to the criminals Debt Money Tyrants.

3. Debt Money Tyrants then use their accumulating wealth to buy up the media.

4. The combination of wealth and media allow the Debt Money Tyrants to plant their operatives into government and into the bureaucracy - ensuring their capture of the governing process.

5. All the while, the Debt Money Tyrants are busy buying up controllin ginterests in in every major strategic industry they can find - and they want to control the major players within the industry, say, control both Coke and Pepsi.

6. They then lobby government to give them tax incentives to offshore America's manufacturing to dictator controlled, slave labor China.  They run the media, so nary a peep comes out of the media.

In proper context, if is the mega-bankers that are the root of the problem, not some minor part of it that came about later.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:36 | 3251377 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

All Hail to the "Failure-in-Chief!"

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:40 | 3251591 Looney
Looney's picture

All Hail to the "Unemployer-in-Chief!"  ;-)


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:00 | 3251881 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

The coming political battle will leave many more unemployed.

I wonder if the REAL UE #'s will be added to the new one.

For "Blaming" purposes, of course.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:37 | 3251279 Jay Gould Esq.
Jay Gould Esq.'s picture

Alas, Mortimer: you endorsed ( both personally, and through the editorial page of your tabloid daily ) and, "wrote a speech" for the Democrat nominee for President in 2008. That nominee went on to gain the White House, and be subsequently re-elected four years later.

You originally helped make the bed. Now you must lie in it.



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:02 | 3251316 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Mort's a Dem and voted plus promoted Obummer.  Evil little shit - isn't he a Canadian?  Mort you voted and supported and bankrupt police state.  You and your ilk did it.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:32 | 3251365 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Pure BS numbers from the Dept of BLS.

The TRUE numbers are worse.

Recovery? What recovery?

Its an ongoing depression. Like its 1933 and the worse is yet to come.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:53 | 3251423 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Freddie that was a good post. +1

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:44 | 3251392 Stanley Lord
Stanley Lord's picture

Exactly, well said.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:46 | 3251602 Laddie
Laddie's picture

Mortimer Benjamin "Mort" Zuckerman is also an active supporter of Israeli and international Jewish causes. Between 2001 and 2003, Zuckerman was the chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 23:43 | 3252276 Andy Lewis
Andy Lewis's picture


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 00:00 | 3252308 exgop
exgop's picture

That says it all

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 11:33 | 3252901 MSimon
MSimon's picture

The Jews have made your mind occupied territory. Clever aren't they.?


In the mean time their real work of promoting medical marijuana - look up Dr. Raphael Mechoulam - goes on unabated.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:12 | 3251745 JR
JR's picture

Zuckerman reminds me of the cartoon with Mooch the cat.

Panel 1: A crash occurs downstairs.

Panel 2: Mooch runs up the stairs as fast as he can.

Panel 3: Mooch yells down the stairs, “What’s going on down there?”

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 21:19 | 3252084 Colonel
Colonel's picture


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:38 | 3251284 Isotope
Isotope's picture

Somewhat related; heard last week that The Morgue was taking over the EBT program here in Ohio in several months.

"You will be assimilated."

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:41 | 3251291 midtowng
midtowng's picture

And with the "recovery" now 44 months old, we have hit the normal length of a recovery and are due for another downturn.

Except this time we will have never even recovered to the previous peak.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:41 | 3251387 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

We can only hope.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:09 | 3251229 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Jobs mentioned 45 times followed by balance, fair, and folks.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:39 | 3251287 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

"folks" is the expression that bugs me the most. Obama's marketing research team must have concluded that using "folks" dozens of times in a speech connects Obama with J6P in an FDR-like way. Obama's just a small-town Joe hanging out on Main Street with "folks".

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:32 | 3251367 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

"Believe" is right up there too.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:45 | 3251396 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Well who else used a similar pithy word, "volk", for people?!

I think it was Charlie Chaplin and his tramp, right?!



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:46 | 3251399 quid pro quo
quid pro quo's picture

No doubt about it.  To the unwahsed, using the term "folks" makes him sound like some great super-hero of the common man.  Truth, justice, and the American away...(now pay up suckers).  

OTOH, Bush 43 had a way of using terms like "fixin" for which the same argument could be made e.g. "we're fixin' to go down to Galveston and obviously are going to see a devastated part of this fantastic state"

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:53 | 3251422 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

If he insists on saying "folks" he could at least use the more correct "Po Folks".

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:01 | 3251441 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Obama is a con man. Like all Marxists he talks a great game and delivers poverty for all.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:45 | 3251296 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

Jobs mentioned and then TPP and TAP - free trade agreements are only free for money and the race to the bottom.
These agreements will kill more jobs than they make- and the ones killed will be decent living wage and the ones created 9$ an hour w no bennies -

So the author provides some good stats but then saying that corporate welfare bills masquerading as Free Trade Agreements will help jobs in America is the same neo-lib bs since that giant sucking sound.
And the guy with the funny ears was right.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:32 | 3251369 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Indeed.  Without a free market, there can not be free trade.  This is just a corporate welfare scheme writ globally.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:44 | 3251394 alex_g
alex_g's picture

Woody, that happens when the other free trade partner has a cheaper labor pool.  The EU is not that partner.  The biggest beneficiary of this might be Mexico, which could then route cars (4th largest producer worldwide) and TV's (largest producer) to the EU via the US.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:57 | 3251435 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Aside from the reduction of tariffs that supports your scenario, it is the non-trade provisions that give corporations dominance over nations.  The investor-state dispute provisions in these "21st century" trade deals are devastating to sovereignty.  And once the bureaucratic framework is established, a new level of taxes and global regulations are sure to ensue.  If you create an Atlantic regional bureaucracy and a Pacific regional bureaucracy (TPP), you will, of course, need a higher level of bureaucracy to oversee them.  And, thus, a global corporatocracy is built through "free trade."

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:10 | 3251230 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Sweet, new Z/H news for my morning walk.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:17 | 3251238 gould's fisker
gould's fisker's picture

Fear not, the BLS will re-adjust labor statistics as many times as necessary to spread hopium throughout the land (hopium also for the bent over media anxious for presidential "attention"), Ben will print and Krugman will pester him until everyone has an O-phone so they can chatter about other goodies they should have, and everyone who bought the election propaganda that everything is getting better should be happy--they've gotten what their common sense told them to watch out for when they voted for more of the same--4 moar years of more of the same.  Maybe it doesn't matter who they voted for--but don't complain or whimper that the winner told us--moar of the same--and he got elected.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:19 | 3251239 Hunter S. Thompson
Hunter S. Thompson's picture

Raising the minimum wage to $9/hr is just going to make the problem worse. With low interest rates, employers can lease capital equipment (factory automation and robotics) at a very low cost to replace workers. Look for more people to be collecting unemployment, EBT and welfare if the minimum wage increase gets passed. The Federal Reserve and Policy makers have painted themselves into a corner.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:36 | 3251372 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

You're a fucking retard.

Raising the minimum wage to $9/hr now days is like raising it from two tenths of a cent to three tenths of a cent per hour in real value.

So blow me



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:45 | 3251395 pemdas
pemdas's picture

Enslave  --  I must be a little slow today.  Can you explain the math on that?  

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:21 | 3251567 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Raising the minimum wage will raise wages for many Americans.  This enormous mandated increase will do one thing.  

Increase the inflation rate!

It is simply part of the plan to inflate the debt away.

You can use your brainz or just say bitchez. That choice is yours.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:05 | 3251892 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

It will raise unemployment.

Less of our unskilled workforce will be seen as deserving the higher rate.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:36 | 3251379 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Look, they have out sourced and downsized and eliminated every job possible. The mimimum wages shit jobs in this country are what's left. They are still going to have to be done. These jobs will still be there at $9.00 an hour as well as at $7.25.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:02 | 3251444 Confused
Confused's picture

But without a minimum wage, the "market" would determine what people would be paid. McDonalds wants to hire you for $2/hr? Fine, who the fuck is going to do that? 


Price (wage) discovery. 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:11 | 3251456 suteibu
suteibu's picture

"Fine, who the fuck is going to do that?"

Exactly.  Which is why they would have to pay more.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:23 | 3251569 WakeUpPeeeeeople
WakeUpPeeeeeople's picture

and then you can kiss that dollar menu good-bye

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:27 | 3251575 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Equine meat futures are soaring.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:20 | 3251465 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Corporations are happy when markets are driving wages down. Keep the government out of it blah, blah, blah. But when the markets are driving wages up in a certain sectors, it's a different story. Ten or fifteen years age, software developers were in shot supply and could almost name their price. What did corporations do? They went running to the government to open the floodgates to h1b visas. The h1bs could be employed for far less the Americans. So much for market discovery and keeping the government out of it. It's all bull shit!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:45 | 3251477 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

The H1-b program has trapped corporations because instead of creating jobs in the USA by training a new generation of technicians, they opted for cheap Indian labor.  It may have drove salaries down in the short-term but now IT is totally dependent on them.  There are not enough Americans in IT because the global corporations created the shortage.  Now they say we need more H1-Bs to stay competitive?  Its total bullshit.  If we want to be competitive we need to shut the program down and force global corporations to hire and TRAIN Americans!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:15 | 3251654 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

it's all self-propogating bullshit.  the h1b's are for the most part totally useless, they are immovable, stupid, lazy, can't think outside the box, and most importantly, they know they are here as thieves to take jobs and leeches to suck on as long as possible. 

give me any american kid with a little ambiltion and college schooling and they will do much better in 1 year than all the middle aged indian parasites.  and - i have the experience in this.

it's a self-fulfuilling problem.  the big companys hired all these fckheads because they claimed they were cheap but qualified.  now - that IT everywhere is buried ganges deep in dead weight - how can they admit they were wrong - and got hustled?

at least if they were pleasant, i could agree with it - but once they know they have a majority - the bastard humble uriah heeps take the knife out and it's right in your back and smiling in your face as you turn around and bleed to death. 

good luck to you.  and they just keep bringing more of them.  want jobs?  stop this now.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:57 | 3251806 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

If any of our so-called leaders in DC had intentions of helping college grads get jobs, the H1-B program would have been cancelled years ago.  Money talks, and Apple, IBM, Microsoft, Accenture and Oracle have lots of it.  Congresscritter feed is in their budgets.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:10 | 3252154 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

Sorry if you find free-market competition to be unpleasant, but people from overseas have the same right to earn an honest living as anyone else. The last time I was in a startup that went bust, the H1-Bs had two weeks to find a new job or get on a plane. That is not a decent way to treat any human being, in my humble opinion.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 23:47 | 3252285 Andy Lewis
Andy Lewis's picture

It wouldn't be so bad if I could understand a single word they said.


Gobble gobble said the offshore turkey.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:57 | 3251535 suteibu
suteibu's picture

So, you want the government involved except when you don't.  That's the slippery slope we are on now.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:01 | 3251476 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***who the fuck is going to do that? ***

I would have thought that no one would accept doing these shit jobs for $7.25 an hour. Guess I was wrong.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:51 | 3251415 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Let's see. Raise the minimum wage and then take it all back and then some with "penalties" when the poor dopes can't "buy" health insurance.

The shit is brilliant.



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:07 | 3251894 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Raising the minimum wage is a ruse to raise other govt. handouts....which are tied to the minimum wage.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:57 | 3251485 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

If you raise minimum wage then prices of goods and services will go up in order for businesses to remain profitable.  But rising prices for goods and services will reduce demand and therefore cause businesses to cut back or shut down thus cutting more jobs overall from the economy.  Think about it.  If it costs more to go out to dinner then people will take the time to stay home and cook for themselves.  Its an elementary concept that liberals everywhere fail to grasp.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:25 | 3251572 Raymond K Hessel
Raymond K Hessel's picture

Liberals have grasped that concept with both hands.

It's how they plan to get out from under the debt.  They know that raisiing labor costs will raise the cost of goods and services everywhere in the economy.  That rise in prices will pump more †ax receipts for those taxes based on a percentage rate.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:01 | 3251802 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Just because you raise the minimum wage does not mean that people who make more than minimum wage automatically get a pay increase, especially in a slack labor market.  Therefore, rising prices for goods and services will reduce demand for them.  This will hurt low income earners the hardest.  People will mow their own lawns, split their own wood, clean their own windows and fry their own burgers or not spend the weekend in the hotel if prices rise.  It will not raise the tax base.  Like every other government edict, the effect will be the opposite of its intentions.  Stupid is as stupid does.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:17 | 3251240 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Today in the "recovery," the millions are being assisted, out of sight, by government checks, unemployment checks, Social Security disability checks and food stamps."

Bring them out of the shadows Obama! ;-)

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:20 | 3251468 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

The millions being assisted will come out of the shadows when the government largess becomes insufficient or even non-existent. Then Obama can call out Janet Napolitano and her crew to maintain order while declaring martial law. That's when we'll begin to see why the billions of hollow-point rounds were purchased. 

All continues according to plan.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:18 | 3251244 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

"Safety" and "fairness"...pumped into the people until you are starving, locked up or dead.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:47 | 3251406 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Welfare macht frei!



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:19 | 3251247 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Why work? Benefits are too good from what I read. Too many incentives to pop out moar (rug) rats also.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:23 | 3251252 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

obuma is off on another golf vacation, but we all know he is working on jobs jobs jobs for the people every hour of every day...eyes wide shut the syndrome with it seems no antidote....(maybe zh helps some)

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:27 | 3251261 gould's fisker
gould's fisker's picture

He is helping the poor people and creating a fair economy so we can all make $9 an hour:

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:39 | 3251286 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Don't forget about universal-preschool
(at about 11.5 K/child)
starting at 3 yo.
(later to be revised to 6 weeks, of course).

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:26 | 3251475 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Indoctrination can't start soon enough! Mustn't let troglodytes teach their young children about anything so barbaric as liberty.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:24 | 3251253 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

I agree with the Austrian economic consensus, ie; Faber,Rodgers,Schiff,etc., that when all is said and done, this period in time will not be seen as a 'great depression'. Indeed. There is only one known period of time, historically classified as such, and that is the time between 1929-1945. This millenial economic time period, however, will be seen as 'the greater depression'.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:38 | 3251382 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Look up "long depression"

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:44 | 3251510 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

IMHO, it will be seen as the beginning of the fall of the Amercian Empire which will plunge the Western world into another dark age that is likely to last for generations.  Meanwhile, Asia is rising (as it did during the other European dark age).

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:36 | 3251775 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:08 | 3251808 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Rome was a long, slow decaying death that took centuries ...  I think the beginning of the end in the USA was FDR, or maybe Wilson.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:13 | 3251904 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:28 | 3251262 BringingTheRukus
BringingTheRukus's picture

Forward, Bitchez, with a hand out, or both!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:32 | 3251265 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Who needs 'a job' when you can just count on free shit from Uncle Sugar? [I 2nd Cheap Bastard above]...


If I do ANY work ['work' meaning something very different from having 'a job'] at all... I'm keeping all the profits for myself...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:31 | 3251268 janchup
janchup's picture

Repeating the word "jobs" is very effective...


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:26 | 3251271 ekm
ekm's picture

It is quite strange that the only billionaire talking straight is a Canadian one like zuckerman.


Where are the other ones?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:33 | 3251272 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Still does not beat the numerous times Obama asks male interns for blow jobs.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:36 | 3251276 Desert Rat
Desert Rat's picture

Awesome, while we are at it let's add millions of legalized illegals to the rolls!  

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:46 | 3251299 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture

Yeah, that immigration 'plan' is a crock of shit.  So if illegals can become legal after 8 years, what are they during that 8 year period?  Quasi-legal?  Is immigration going to go after them relentlessly for 8 years, and if the illegal wins, he gets to stay?

Fuck this.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:06 | 3251320 Desert Rat
Desert Rat's picture

yep. more bullshit from the master of bullshit...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:16 | 3251463 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Rush Hour in my area seems to be populated mainly by H1B Visa types. Can't tell me that people who were born here won't/can't do those jobs.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:54 | 3251531 Desert Rat
Desert Rat's picture

Those are skilled workers, no? Companies can get an H1B Software Engineer for significantly less than an American counterpart? Or we just don't have the skilled citizen workers to fill these jobs? I'm thinking the latter...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:08 | 3251644 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

we have the workers.  but the corporations won't take them.  from top to bottom the elite want the h1b guys because they have no rights and they walk on them like never.  until the h1b guys get the citizenship by having babies with the other h1b's and now we are in new york gandhi on the hudson.  good luck with that.  they are so fcked there - we have 1 billion people ready to get over here.  if you aren't onto/aware of it, just wait until they take your job and cover your neighborhood complete with bed bugs and diseases we eliminated almost 100 years ago.

i love everybody - and the further away from me they are, the more i love them.  and the inverse.  get it?  obama was the perfect plant.  nobel peace prize and everything.  learn to love big brother, because he's got his everything into anything you didn't want it into.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 20:15 | 3251988 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

I would take an American graduate from a State University over any one of the Indians from Bumfuck University in Mumbai.  Problem is middle management can't because there is no internship or training programs available.  Senior management will not train US workers.  They get the Indians trained offshore for $5,000/year then ship them over here as indentured servants.  They have to be sponsored for an H1-B so the corporations have them under their thumbs until their visa expires or they get a green card.  The only way America will become competitive in IT is to eliminate the H1-b program because corporations will continue doing what they are doing until they are forced to stop.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:23 | 3252165 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

The US holds a major share of the wold software industry, and this would not be possible if we only worked with US-born talent. All those software jobs that H1B's are "taking from american workers", would likely not be in America were it not for the H1B program.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 23:53 | 3252273 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

That is the standard line used by software executives and its a myth.  Most of the developers I work with who are Americans were trained in the 90s and many of them do not have Computer Science degrees.  They are hands down better developers than 90% of the H1Bs.  IT jobs do not take highly trained geeks.  I can possibly see a place for some of the best and brightest PHDs from the India Institute of Technology -- sure give them a free pass to help Oracle, Microsoft, Google, etc... with low level code.  But other than that, America has plenty of talented College graduates who, given the opportunity, can do better work in IT than the vast majority of H1Bs who are here.  And by the way, in case you haven't heard; IBM, Microsoft, Accenture, Oracle and every other major tech firm employs tens of thousands of developers in Indian cities.  Massive campuses have been built.  So using fear tactics like claiming that US jobs will be forced overseas is hogwash.  They already have!  Most of the jobs H1Bs take from Americans in America are not low level coding jobs that require super specialized skills.  I should know because I have been in the industry for over 20 years.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:12 | 3251902 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Give them 90 days to apply for citizenship, after that, THEY have chosen to reject any legal status here, and must be deported.....well, maybe not "deported". The LESS time consuming, legally expedient alternative to deportation.....a bus ride.

No, NO, NO govt. benefits until citizens.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:40 | 3251288 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

Mr. Zuckerman is no doubt a smart man and the points he makes are beyond question. However, having watched him over the years on McLaughlin and read his writings on many other venues, he has headed for the safety of the thinking of old men and the status quo, and it's a shame.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:43 | 3251292 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

listen to Mort-a MSM-controlling,juiced in 12 Tribesman-he only has the goys' interest at heart.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:52 | 3251304 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

Zuckerman has had some sort of semi-positive transformation over the last 5 years. He sounds like he has been trying to open his minds eye. Our third eye, that is. It is hard for many people to do, especially liberals.  After so many years of having it shut in their slumber, a thick crust forms on the eyelid, making it difficult and painful to pry open. Causing most liberals to give up and put their mind back to sleep.

Looks like 'ole Mort has been determined to wake his ass up. Realizing that the layers of crust are just the 'sleepies', and they are from having a long life sleep. Now if he can just feel his way over to the bathroom and gently splash some warm water on it, the sleepies will wash away and there will be light!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:56 | 3251427 DangerClams
DangerClams's picture

I often splash warm water on that other eye, the brown one, that Barry seems to mostly talk out of.

Is that what you mean?

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 12:58 | 3251309 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Not much longer until we are all either getting paid $9.00 an hour, or getting taxed so much that all we have left after all the taxes is $9.00 an hour. A socialist's wet dream!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:02 | 3251315 Monedas
Monedas's picture

We have to stop watering and fertilizing "The Weeds" and whack 'em down with a hoe !

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:37 | 3251381 SilverFish
SilverFish's picture

I think Dolemite would agree.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:04 | 3251317 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

"Europe and the U.S. represent 44% of the world economy, but both have stalled. They (and the rest of the world) would benefit from freer trade."

Free trade has REALLY worked well for America... to the tune of running a net trade deficit (goods plus services) every single month as far back (at least) as 1992 (as per the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

You can find the data here:

Funny, I don't remember massive trade deficits being a selling point for NAFTA before it was ratified in 1993 and enforced in 1994.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:51 | 3251407 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Blablabla (fingers in my ears) bla bla bla (Smoot Hawley created the Great Depression)bla bla bla (I am a fucktard) bla bla bla (Free Trade is Good).

-- Typical Idiot Globalist, usually from the GOP, but also could be Damned-ocrat



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:11 | 3251421 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

Corporate lobbyists influence members of both parties.  Members of both parties have sold their votes in exchange for remaining in power.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:06 | 3251321 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

  "A socialists wet dream"

Oh, it's coming. (pun intended). After all, their Marxist allies have their own lifelong wet dream of having one of their very own as president of the United States. 

   The marxists have finally taken the castle.


And of course they will not change the sheets.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:49 | 3251410 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

I'm not that familiar with Marxism. If Obama is a Marxist than it must mean that Marxism promote massive handouts to Wall Street and the TBTF banks. It must mean that capitalists are not prosecuted for blatant crimes under Marxism. Who would have thought it. I learn so much on ZH

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:53 | 3251417 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Yeah, he's a Marxist Fascist.  (As well as a fucktard).

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:02 | 3251445 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

He may be a fucktard. But what the hell is a Marxist Fascist. That like a Jewish Muslim or a liberal conservative. These are complete contradictory terms.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:39 | 3251589 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

He is a neo-marxist. AND if you were familiar with the whole movement that has many heads or columns, you would know that. You need to read some literature on the subject of the communist movement and how it has morphed/PROGRESSED over the years.




Read 'slouching towards Gomorah' by Robert Bork.







Sun, 02/17/2013 - 15:41 | 3251593 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

Now educate yourself and when you finally attain knowledge you un-wise asses, then you will have a proper logical framework to respond.


Now read up or shut up!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:16 | 3251619 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

Oh yeah. There is much more that is out there on the subject that I still look forward to reading. The key is to look for it. IT, will not seek you! IT wants to remain as stealth as possible.


Another thing to do is google the 'Venona project' or Venona papers. These are the declassified soviet cables that reveal a lot of the soviets secret plans, including the communist movement here in America. There are many fronts, but they all have the same goal.





Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:29 | 3251771 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

It sound like you too don't understand the difference between Communism and Fascism. In basic terms Communism forbids all private property. Everything is owned by the state. Everyone works for the state and is provided for by the state. Under Fascism there is private property and the private interests (ie. the major corporations) are aligned and supported by the state. Workers and their so called unions are strictly controlled by the government. This is why the wealthy love Fascism and fear and loath Communism. They are both completely opposite economic systems. The only similarity between Soviet Communism (Stalin) and Nazis Fascism (Hitler) is that they both very quickly devolved into totalitarian systems. 

The United States is very much in the control of the wealthy plutocrats and their multinational corporations.  The U. S. is quickly becoming a Fascist system. Obama is a toady of these powerful interests. The idea he is a Marxist or a Communist is laughable.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:31 | 3252172 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

OK, so if I understand you correctly:

Communism:  The government controls everything, murdering the wealthy and confiscating their property

Fascism: The government controls everything, and targets some other group for expropriation and genocide.

And that makes these two governing idealogies complete opposites?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 13:47 | 3252374 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

This is nonsense Henry Hub.

BTW-My apologies for getting harsh my saying shut up. That is not a good thing. I value freedom of speech right up there with right to privacy. They are my top two and I violated one of them.


    You are getting into the technical definitions of the two movements. What is this text book definition stuff about? You can not honestly believe there is a blueprint definition for a theory as fallacious as marxism. That is what is laughable.


   Obama a fascist? 


 You basically state that Obama can't be a marxist because he consorts with the Wall st. crowd.  Well of course he does!!!!!!!!!! That is the marxist 'modus operandi'!!!!!  They are all hypocrits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Including the man who is credited with starting it all, Karl Marx himself! You honestly can't believe that all these assholes are true believers in their own bullshit! Although that may have been what Lenin was hoping for.  Maybe that is what Lenin meant when he allegedly told Stalin or whoever, that the success of their movement depended on the useful idiots of the west. The two best historians on Marx and Stalin, as late as 2008, still stated that there is no proof that Lenin ever made the claim, but that it would be very typical of Lenin to make such a remark.

       If that is true, then we can only speculate on the true meaning of these unproven spoken/written words. Well then, I would theorize that some people are the usefool idiots that Lenin was refering to. It makes sense. Get some people to believe that the marxist "practitioners" actually believe the tenets of their own bullshit, then when the useful ones see the so-called marxists not practicing what they preach- PRESTO! -usefool idiot then says, "nothing to worry about lord of finance!  Because if he really was a marxist, he would not surround himself with bankers and tax cheats!"   Who knows?  Would be sinisterly clever.


 The two historians did say Lenin was as clever as the devil!


Marxism works in theory but every marxist will show you something a whole lot different when it comes to practice. Now a fascist, on the other hand, sure as HELL practices what he preaches. Maybe that is why the Marxists hated them so and vice versa. Now this marxist front that Obama is leading knows full well that he can not create a totalitarian state here in the USA. Marxist sympathizing politicians are the worst kind of politicians to have in this nation. A fascist could never have any influence. But a naive marxist will push through legislation that weakens us militarily(in progress right now) and weaken us economically(need I say more on that). But that does not define the WHOLE movement. As I said before, there is no defining this "thing". Some are naive, some are useful idiots. Some are unwitting agents. Some are hardcore leftists.  The only thing they have in common is  hypocrisy. Oh, and one more thing. They will lead this nation to bankruptcy. Wether it is intentional or not is not the concern for me. Either way the end result is the same and we are in serious trouble.









  Do not get caught up in the literal(if there really are any)/technical definitions of Marxism, because there is no possible way of defining something so fallacious as marxist theory. 











Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:11 | 3251322 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Let me give you an example of where the rosy employment numbers are skewed beyong belief. I am a one person business who relies on oil and gas, uranuim, coal, timber - things you can drop on your foot- development.  Five years ago I had more work than I could keep up with, primarily the smaller contracts not worth the while of larger companies to bid.  Now I am farming myself out for on call work with these large companies.  Why? Becasue the work that used to be too small for the large companies to bid they are now snapping up left and right.  They bid on everything that comes across the net just to keep their full timers with something to do. They have cut back on their permanent staff and now keep longer lists of us on-calls that do not suck them for benefits.  Go into small western towns in WY, ID, CO, MT...6 years ago these towns were booming with oil and gas, coal, uranium exploration.  Now the small town entrepreneur who believed work was coming back to their town and who went into debt refurnishing her motel has the vacancy sign constantly lit at her motel and she is working part time at the local liquor store to pay her bills.  Don't let the media tell you otherwise. It is bad out there and only getting worse.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:55 | 3251520 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

1099s will be the prevailing tax form of the future.  Better to pay someone $40/hour on a 1099 than hire someone for $60,000/year with taxes and mandated benefits that actually cost $50+/hour.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:19 | 3251657 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

1099's will become code word for 'tax evasion' in the near future.  You can bet the bank that the IRS will slam everyone who is going to try to classify  de facto employees' as contractors.  If someone is working exclusivly for you, and you have any say in their hours of work etc etc. etc., then they are actually an employee.  Just wait, the Feds are going to keep changing the hours worked / week scam until every employee you hire that works even one fucking minute will have to be provided healthcare benefits..   These Libtards have no clue the consequences of their dictatorial edicts, all they are doing is crushing any chance of a company hiring anyone....oh yeah, I forgot the unintended consequence of every surviving company that will just be forced to pass thru all the increased overhead into the price of their final product.  A stealth indirect tax on the poor and middle class..   Worst part is that the average Obama voter thinks it is " freeeeeeeeee !!!!!!!!!"   Gimme my free Obama phone and my free Odumma health care.....   The USA is so screwed.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:42 | 3251698 pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

Change your first sentance from "will become" and you are correct.


They are hammering down on this right now, and let me tell you, they are going after everything.


WC, for example, isn't paid on a 1099, they are going to want that money.  You cannot pass on costs right now, people can either afford what you currently offer or they can't.  Going up in price over the last few years has been a matter of picking how large of a percentage of your customer base you are willing to lose.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:07 | 3251324 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Barack knows that illegal Latins are going to cream his illiterate niggers .... Latins, Orientals and White Americans will keep the "Black Beast" from getting out of control .... something blacks don't talk about much !

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:45 | 3251397 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Damn, dude.  I mean, just fucking damn.

Sorry that I can't give you infinity green arrows.

Seriously.  I mean, fuck!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 00:05 | 3252313 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"his illiterate niggers"

What is WRONG with you? You're not supposed to say NGGRZ because it rhymes with Chiggers, and those are really aggravating little bugs that get under your skin and suck the blood out of you, usually right on your scrotum somewhere. So don't let me EVER see you using that offensive language again.  This is Zero Hedge. We're allowed to beat the bloody hell out of each other, but we're not going to stoop to likening people to bloodsucking parasites.

Except in the case of Obama. You can call him whatever you like; he's the worst Photoshopper I've ever seen.

Mortimer Zuckerman.....Zuckerman......wasn't that the farmer in Charlotte's Web? Huh? U.S. Snooze and Whirled Reporting? Never heard of it.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:10 | 3251329 tradingdaze
tradingdaze's picture

That's Barry "Pants on Fire" Obama and he's here to help.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:14 | 3251333 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   I'm going to jump the shark tank. $9 or $19 , inflation is going to be the cause of the next great uprising... When the natives can't fill their stomachs there will be [pitch forks and molotov cocktails] for everyone.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:26 | 3251350 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Obama's half black roots can't produce no green shoots.

He's a conman for the bankster takeover of the US.

I think he's using again.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:28 | 3251354 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

yeah, I'm having a hard time finding a full time job since I moved from Cali in July 2012. I've been working part time since Aug. 2012, my current employer will not hire full time nor move one up to full time. Interviewed for a private company only b/c they forced the former employee to quit after over 40 years and she was in her 70's. Only other full time jobs are for the county and state or minimum wage service jobs.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:51 | 3251380 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 POTUS needs to move to Japan for 6 months.  Get rid of the Wookie, and buy a latex "Love Doll ®"...

  stag-deflation/hyperinflation is just around the corner...

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:42 | 3251389 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Do they REALLY wanna improve the jobs numbers? Of course not.

If they did, they would>

1) Put tariffs on good and services from slave labor and cheapo countries like China, Vietnam and India.
2) Cancel the H1 visa program and send all those little brown men back to Bangalore.
3) Announce immediate deportations of illegal aliens.
4) Cancel Welfare programs.
5) Start hanging the CEOs of multinationals from lamp posts.

People would have jobs in pretty damned short order.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:52 | 3251418 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

I agree with your points accept with tariffs. IMO we shouldn't have trade agreements with these types of nations. Don't trade with them unless they reform their ways and have the same values as true Americans.

When we have trade agreements with rogue nations it only hurts us and causes us to be more like them.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:42 | 3252184 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

Chinese, Vietnamese and Indians have the same right to earn a living as anyone else, and if I wish to trade with anyone on the planet who offers me a product or service at a price I find fair, neither you nor any government has any right to interfere.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 13:58 | 3251436 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

If banning guns stops crime, why not ban unemployment to stop joblessness?

What's good for the goose is good for the sheep, yo!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:37 | 3251497 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Why not go all the way and make poverty a crime punishable by death? 

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:26 | 3251842 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***Why not go all the way and make poverty a crime punishable by death? ***

That's a little bit extreme. Maybe we could bring back the poor houses and the work houses that used to be so prevalent in this country 150 years ago. A lot of people starved to death in them because they didn't provide food to the inmates. The idea being that they would pay their bills faster to get out.

This time however we will make them private for profit institutions like the regular prisons. Think of the profits as more and more Americans slide into destitution and penury.  I love the smell of profits and the starving poor in the morning.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 19:54 | 3251964 Stuffs And Stuff
Stuffs And Stuff's picture

Why not go all the way and turn this country into a big fucking FEMA camp.

We'll split the population into two groups. One group breaks down big rocks into small rocks, and another group pastes the debris back together and hands it back to the first group.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:07 | 3251451 smartstrike
smartstrike's picture

The real issue that most don't want to admit is that private economy has failed because it is a Ponzi economy. The well to do put their money into asset appreciation and prefer to earn profits form global wage arbitration, employment of illegal labor and government contracts instead of employing capital into production and hiring of labor.

To feed this Ponzi, corporate owned-government entity must run ever larger deficits and money printing schemes while the US native labor force gets more dependent on ever cheaper foreign goods. The fact that one can trash their own currency in order to feed the global trade Ponzi, shows just how high the profits are.

Large US corporations earn more than 50% of their profits abroad, 20% is earned form government contracts, which leaves only about 30% earned from domestic operations. In order to make this type of economy somehow sustainable, corporate owned -government would have to levy high income taxes on their owners and individuals behind those corporations. 



Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:22 | 3251472 Mad Muppet
Mad Muppet's picture

Jobs! Double plus good!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 14:39 | 3251498 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

fascist, communist: for fucktards who think they are different: both need central control of property and economy.

.now go argue your silly; but but fascist work with corporations and communists are just angels looking out for the common man with absolute state power. such stupid fucks who post on and on about how they are not the same cat.

national socialist is a national socialist period.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:32 | 3251848 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***national socialist is a national socialist period.***


But it is not Communism.   FUCKTARD

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 22:46 | 3252190 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

So when it comes down to it, "fucktard" is all you got. That's the sum total of your argument.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:00 | 3251623 Positive Dennis
Positive Dennis's picture

Who was it that defined insanity as to continue to do something that clearly is not working? By thus definition Mort is insane. Free trade is not working, why does anyone think that expanding it will "kiss it and make it better?"

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:18 | 3251753 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
-Albert Einstein

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 20:02 | 3251978 Stuffs And Stuff
Stuffs And Stuff's picture

We don't even live in a free market. In a free market, everyone plays by the same rules. 

When 'too big to fail' banks make a profit, it goes into their pockets, and when they lose money, it's taxpayer money which is lost!

When these same banks are caught commiting serious crimes, they are almost never held accountable - They can make billions in profit breaking the law and then pay only a fraction of said profit in fines. The fine is basically just a bribe to the government, it's essentially just a way to pay them off!

This ain't free market, motherfucker; I hesitate to even call it capitalism - What it is, is a centrally planned corporatist system.


Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:05 | 3251629 lindaamick
lindaamick's picture

The poor are kept hidden.  Food Stamps and SS Disability are required to keep them hidden. 

The few that dare to come out into the open are arrested as vagrants or sent to homeless shelters usually run by church groups.  The poor are being criminalized.

As long as the hiding is successful the charade of BS information coming out of the government is not questioned by the majority.  Things "Look Like" they have for decades.

You have to be observant to notice all the empty store fronts, the growing number of potholes in the roads and lack of newly painted lines, the taller grass in the medians and roadsides and the general, gradual decay that is going on in most places.  

It is a virtual reality painted by the overlords.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:07 | 3251642 Kingkongballs827
Kingkongballs827's picture

Bury your Guns, Gold, AR-15s, Ammo, Food and More with this 4.5' Foot Nitrogen Sealed PVC Burial Tube Gun Vault.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:32 | 3251675 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The biggest NEW employer is the state, via Social Security disability. This field of work is where the mostly male former working class has been going for over a decade now. All those factory and service to industry jobs that men once filled in their millions have died off since the late 70's by the beginning of the 2000's they are nearly all gone. Many of the males that did or would have found work in these fields are unemployable and they know it. Thus you have had a mad rush to claim disability from the Social Security system. If the truth be told, I believe that the government is telling SS to make a show of being tough on claims but in the end I think their orders are to take on millions of the former industrial and maufacturing sector workers for who those jobs will never ever exist again. China has most of them, and factories still close to move abroad everyday. The government is buying social peace by paying millions of men to sit home and drink beer and watch tv and collect SS.

I know a guy who drove truck, he claimed SS disability for his bad back, by all accounts he is a cripple. He  claims that he can never drive a truck or work again, so he gets his SS check. Thing is, he likes to trout fish, just like me. So I take him with fishing several times a summer. This requires a several mile walk through thick brush and rocky difficult country. I am in peak condition, and it is a grueling experience to get in to the good fishing holes in the wilderness areas surrounding our town. He never has a problem keeping up! This tells you his bad back is BS!

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 16:47 | 3251705 pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

I know several who are on disability largely due to job market.  Most lost a job in the last five years that paid over $20/hr.  After realizing there weren't any jobs around paying in that range they had mental or back issues.


My FIL works 10+hours 7 days a week with a pain pump.  His back is gone but his spirit isn't.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:24 | 3251760 uncle reggie
uncle reggie's picture

"Such an increase is simply impossible to connect to direct disability experienced during employment, for it is inconceivable that work in America has become so dangerous. For many, this disability program has become another form of unemployment compensation, only this time without end."

This statement is both misleading and inacurate. First, Social Security Disability does not require the disability to be work related as the author implies. Any qualifying disability, regardless of whether it is "connected" to employment or not, enables the applicant to receive benefits. Next, the vast majority of applicants are denied benefits. This author mistakenly supports the misconception that SSDI is "easy" to obtain and those receiving are scamming the system. A more accurate analysis of the increase in beneficiaries can be found by looking at our dysfunctional healthcare system, corporate control of our food products which are largely responsible for the worst diet in human history and ever increasing reductions in general living standards. This author obviously belongs to the elitist thinkers crowd who like to blame those at the bottom of the society for ripping off the rest of us hard working, real Americans. Part of the "keep the masses divided" folks so we don't get too angry at the obscenely rich oligarchy. Sorry, we're not all susceptible to that "blame the little guy" bullshit.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:40 | 3251856 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Actually the "obscenely rich oligarchy" is perfectly happy to let these claimants go on SS because it will more quickly deplete the resources of the SS trust fund. Destroying Social security has been their goal since it's inception 70 years ago.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 17:29 | 3251772 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Lord knows the public unions aren't going to join the depression!  Nope, pay this big tax bill grandma so I can keep what I got!  If you can't afford it we'll just sell your house!

Those bastards need to be crushed.

Sun, 02/17/2013 - 18:21 | 3251837 kurt
kurt's picture

sometimes the crabs in the basket pull the escapees back in as they labor to get out also. I'd pick better targets

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