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Guest Post: Adrift At Sea

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Jim Quinn of Burning Platform blog,

 “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.”
Friedrich Nietzsche


The big story this past week, besides the annual State of the Delusion speech by Barack “It won’t add a cent to the deficit” Obama, was the fate of the passengers on the Carnival Triumph as their skyscraper sized ship was left adrift at sea for days without power. This 900 foot long, 100,000 ton goliath is one of the largest passenger cruise liners in the world, carrying 3,400 passengers and 1,100 crew members in luxurious splendor through warm Gulf of Mexico seas to sun drenched exotic isles. These ships are practically floating countries, with passengers treated to an endless American buffet of never ending quantities of bacon, sausage, biscuits, gravy, fried chicken, mashed potatoes, waffles, pizza, cheesecake, soda, beer and the rum drink of the day. It’s as if all 3,400 passengers have a SNAP card with no limit. There are retail stores, restaurants, bars, ice skating rinks, movie theaters, showplaces, and staff waiting on you hand and foot. No cash changes hands. You charge everything to your room number and then just pay with one of your 13 credit cards at the conclusion of your voyage into debt. Then you pay 18% interest on the 25 Funky Monkeys you consumed for the next 14 years. Cruising captures the essence of America as we traverse our voyage to hell.

The ordeal at sea of the Carnival Triumph and the leadership displayed by the Carnival management and executive officers is a microcosm of our declining empire. The $420 million Carnival Triumph was put into service in 1999 and has run continuously for the last fourteen years, with only periodic dry dock maintenance. These massive ships are replenished within hours of docking and depart within twelve hours of dumping their 3,400 passengers back onshore. The CEO and top management of Carnival care only about ROI and whether their stock options are vested. Their goal is to bilk the passengers out of as much cash as possible, while paying their foreign slave labor crew members as little as possible. The ships are registered in foreign countries for tax purposes and the crew members are mostly from third world countries. Carnival executives and shipboard officers have a history of recklessness, mismanagement, and willingness to endanger its passengers in its greedy thirst for short term profits. Ask the families of the 32 passengers killed in the sinking of the Costa Concordia.


The engine room fire that disabled the Triumph was not an isolated instance. This was the fourth engine room fire on a Carnival owned ship resulting in a loss of power, the others being the Tropicale in 1999, the Carnival Splendor in 2010, and the Costa Allegra in 2012. The Carnival Triumph should not have been at sea. It had been plagued with mechanical problems for weeks prior to the engine fire. Voluntarily taking the ship out of service would have hurt the 1st quarter earnings per share of this public company, therefore the leadership of Carnival told the engineers to patch it up and get it back out on the seas. Two weeks prior to the engine room fire the Carnival Triumph experienced propulsion issues that caused it to be five hours late returning to its Galveston home port on January 28, 2013 and delaying the ship’s departure for its next cruise until 8:00 pm that night. The ship departed, but the problems had not been fixed. The Associate Press reported a story about that cruise that provides a different assessment than the public relations drivel released the corporate office:

An email informed Debbi Smedley and other passengers that the propulsion problem would prevent them from docking at two ports. “Due to the limited cruising speed, our itinerary will be impacted. Depending on the progress of the repairs, we will either visit Progreso or Cozumel,” stated the email, signed by Vicky Rey, vice president of guest services. Smedley said the ship was in poor condition overall. During her five-day cruise, a water line broke in the hallway ceiling near her cabin, and a separate sewer line broke outside the main dining hall, she said. Metal was protruding from handrails on the staircases, and the elevators often did not work. Rather than docking in Progreso for only a few hours as planned, the ship stayed in the port for two days, and cruise workers repeatedly told passengers they were waiting for parts to fix a mechanical problem, according to Smedley.

Carnival’s public relations machine then admitted to an electrical problem with the ship’s alternator in the last voyage before the fire, but claimed it was repaired. What they didn’t reveal is that it was a Coast Guard inspection that revealed there was a short in the high voltage connection box of one of the ships generators causing damage to cables within the connection box. A directive with a compliance due date of February 27, 2013 was issued following the inspection requiring that “the condition of the ship and its equipment shall be maintained to conform with the regulations to ensure that the ship in all respects will remain fit to proceed to sea without danger to the ship or persons on board.” The Coast Guard Marine Information Safety and Law Enforcement System showed that this deficiency remained unresolved at the time of the subsequent fire and loss of power while at sea on February 10. So you have a company PR maggot lying and you have another useless Department of Homeland Security branch not enforcing regulations that are supposed to protect passengers. This is par for the course in our corporate fascist states of America today.

Shit Happens

George: Aha. Aha. Could it be because you don’t want him to know that you have a friend who pees in the shower, is that it?!

Elaine: No, that’s not it!

George: Oh, I think it is! I think that’s exactly what it is!

Elaine: Why couldn’t you just wait?

George: I was there! I saw a drain!

Elaine: Since when is a drain a toilet?!

George: It’s all pipes! What’s the difference?!


George Costanza would have enjoyed sailing on the Carnival Triumph as passengers were left to piss in showers and shit in red plastic bags for days. It finally became socially acceptable to pee in the shower. Most of the ship’s electrical power went down after the engine room fire, causing extensive breakdowns of vital shipboard mechanical systems, including taking out sanitary systems. Passengers reported sewage sloshing around in hallways, flooded rooms and trouble getting enough to eat. Passengers waited in line for three hours to get a lousy hot dog. On the lower decks sewage came up through the shower drain, pooling in the sinks and flowing into the hallways. The allegory of the poor people on the lower decks being inundated with feces and living in wretched conditions, while the rich people living in luxury on the upper decks are blissfully ignorant of the fate of their fellow passengers is so easy to apply to our society in this day and age. The 1% glory in their stock market gains, while 20% of U.S. households are on food stamps.

These direct quotes from passengers and pictures taken onboard this voyage from hell provide a taste of what our future portends:  

“We have to urinate in the shower. They’ve been passed out plastic bags to go to the bathroom. There was fecal matter all over the floor.”

“They’re walking around in a lot of urine and fecal matter, and the sewers are backing up.”

“The sanitation situation was gross and the stench was awful.”

“Just imagine the filth. People were doing crazy things and going to the bathroom in sinks and showers.”

“A lot of people were crying and freaking out.”

“We are trapped aboard a floating petri dish without power, air conditioning, or fresh water.”

“It’s degrading. Demoralizing, and then they want to insult us by giving us $500″

 Disgust: Guests were being forced to defecate into plastic bags and place it outside their rooms as toilets on board the Triumph backed up following the electrical failure Foul: Passengers on board the Carnival Triumph reported that floors were being flooded with raw sewage from overflowing bathrooms

 Where's my charger: After days without power a generator was airlifted unto the ship today and many people took the opportunity to charge their phones

After reading a number of articles describing what happened before, during and after the engine fire aboard the Carnival Triumph, the parallels between this Ship of Horrors and our Ship of State become self-evident. You have the CEO and top executives of Carnival only concerned about their wealth, power and control of the company. Rather than thinking long term and making decisions that might be detrimental to their short term quarterly earnings, but insure the long –term financial health and reputation of the company, their decision was driven by their true masters on Wall Street. Instead of taking the ship off-line to make vital repairs and  necessary investments, they just papered over signs of an imminent disaster and turned to public relations spin and propaganda as there preferred course of action. When disaster “suddenly” struck, the management and executive officers were unprepared, slow to react, and more concerned with their reputations than about the health, safety and welfare of the passengers. Much more could have been done to alleviate the misery of the 3,400 passengers. Carnival could have had a large generator helicoptered onto the deck and used to produce enough electricity to run some lights, ventilation, refrigeration and toilets. It appears that this ship had two engine rooms and only one was damaged by fire. They could have restarted the undamaged engine room and would have had enough power for most normal functions in the cabins of the ship, and probably some capability to propel the ship towards port. The disgraceful lack of urgency and refusal of top management to attempt every possible solution to this crisis is a lesson to be learned by passengers and citizens alike. They don’t care about you.

Rev. Wendell Gill’s experience onboard the Triumph provides a glimpse into our future. He immediately recognized the leadership of the ship was non-existent and it would be up to people helping people if they were to make it through the ordeal:

“What you had was a tale of two ships. You seldom saw a deck officer. I never saw the captain. Some of the people in the upper areas had plenty of air, but down below, it was unlivable. It was like a sauna of sewage. It was the people on the boat that saved Carnival. In an adverse situation, most people will rise to help — that’s just the human spirit.”  

Reverend Gill and his wife noticed that no one from Carnival was stepping up to help the elderly and sick get around. The Gills, along with other concerned passengers, decided to take matters into their own hands, carting mattresses and bedding up from the lower decks. They witnessed the worst side of human nature in the inaction of Carnival leadership, along with some people becoming drunk, disorderly and fighting over food. But they also witnessed people coming together under difficult circumstances, with many in the upper cabins sharing their space with those from the lower uninhabitable decks. The passengers created their own shanty town of tents on deck and in the cooler hallways. The vast majority of people acted like decent human beings. Kindness, sharing, and helping one another won the day. This voyage through hell is a precursor of what lies ahead for everyone in this country. When vital systems fail, the lights go out, and your beloved government leaders are nowhere to be found, how will you fare? Don’t count on someone from the government to lead when we are set adrift in a sea of chaos created by them. The politicians, bankers and bureaucrats will be scrambling to save themselves. Your family, friends, and neighbors will be the only people you can rely on. Your caring government doesn’t really care about you.

Cruisin for a Bruisin      

“Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.” Friedrich Nietzsche


The similarities between the horrific voyage of the Carnival Triumph and the tragic voyage of the dysfunctional ship of state we call America are many. We have a ruling class consisting of the President, Congress, Judiciary, Central bankers, Media titans, and goliath corporation CEOs who care not for the citizens of this country. You are ignorant peasants in their eyes. They only care about maintaining and expanding their wealth, control and power through the complete capture of our financial markets, political system and media propaganda to the masses. The health and welfare of the peasants isn’t even on their radar screen. The ruling class steering this ship of fools have no interest in the truth or the best long –term interests of the country. The vast majority of the passengers on this impaired listing ship prefers to believe the propaganda and lies spewed by the captain and his minions. They prefer the illusion of safety and security to the truth about the real condition of this ship. When the engines of this ship come to a grinding halt, their illusions will be shattered. Big government will come up small when it counts. The government propaganda and public relations will be revealed as nothing but hot putrid air and fecal matter.

Michael Ramirez Cartoon

Speaking of fecal matter, President Obama’s State of the Union address, which was watched by 33 million (down from 52 million in 2009) believers, was a perfect reflection of the thinking that led to the Carnival Triumph disaster. The reality facing the country is: $220 trillion of unfunded entitlement liabilities; a $16.5 trillion national debt; annual deficits exceeding $1 trillion; 48 million citizens on food stamps; 11 million people on SSDI; a true unemployment rate of 23%; true inflation exceeding 5%; record high gasoline prices; 0% interest rates for senior citizen savers; free money for criminal bankers provided by their sugar daddy Bernanke; not one criminal prosecution of a Wall Street executive for the greatest financial fraud in history; a war department that spends $1 trillion per year and fights undeclared wars around the world; a chief executive that invokes dictatorial executive orders to murder Americans with his fleet of predator drones and imprison citizens indefinitely without charges; and a bureaucratic nightmare called Obamacare that will drive up deficits, drive up healthcare costs for every family, enrich the healthcare industrial complex, drive doctors into retirement, and drive small businesses into bankruptcy.

Rather than deal with this reality, Obama chose the Carnival Cruise Line method of public relations, misinformation, denial and delusion. He has embraced the Big Lie concept as if he had created it. With a straight face he proposes “investments” in infrastructure, new jobs programs, new education initiatives, more green energy projects, pollution control schemes, bailing out more underwater mortgages, and raising the minimum wage, all done for the children – and it won’t add one cent to the deficit. Instead of leveling with the American people and explaining the dire economic issues confronting our nation that require sacrifice, reality based thinking, and tough choices, we got more platitudes, class warfare, divide and conquer, phantom spending cuts, disingenuous twisting of the truth, intellectual dishonesty and fuzzy math. Public relations spin created by Madison Avenue maggots and pronounced grandly by corrupt puppet politician hacks will not prevent the catastrophic engine failure that will leave this country adrift in a sea of its own feces.

Our cruise of illusions and delusions is headed for troubled water. The math challenged citizens on this ship have been enjoying the 24 hour pizza buffet without the labor required to pay for the bounty. When your leaders boldly lie and tell you we don’t have a spending problem, refer to proposed spending increases as “investments”, and hail $1.6 trillion of spending cuts that did not happen, you’ve got a ship that will be signaling SOS in the imminent future. Both political parties are laughable in their blathering about spending cuts as Bush and his Republican cronies drove spending from $1.9 trillion in 2001 to $3.0 trillion in 2008 with their unfunded wars, unfunded new entitlements (Medicare Part D), Wall Street bailouts, and creation of police state agencies (DHS); while Obama and his Democrat co-conspirators have driven spending up to $3.8 trillion in four years with new unfunded entitlements (Obamacare), expansion of warfare in the Middle East (they sit on top of “our” oil), $800 billion stimulus handouts, $60 billion hurricane relief pork handed out for $25 billion of uninsured losses, and bailing out banks, auto companies, homeowners, and other gamblers who took undo risks and lost to the tune of hundreds of billions. Politicians and the inhabitants of this country have forgotten there are consequences to their actions and inactions.

Carnival Cruise Line is trying to buy off the passengers with refunds and $500 bribes to keep them quiet and sedated, while protecting their continued hundreds of millions in profits and million dollar bonuses for their executives. The ruling class in the United States has bought off the American people with entitlement promises that can’t possibly be honored, food stamps, SSDI, tax rebates, homebuyer tax credits, loan modification programs, Cash for Clunkers, payroll tax cuts, $1 trillion of taxpayer financed student loans, taxpayer financed subprime auto loans, and a myriad of other handouts designed to keep the masses sedated, while the ruling class continues to pillage the national wealth. It’s as if the entire country has been charging their food, drinks, excursions, and purchases to their room number and the bill has reached $16.5 trillion, rising by $3 billion per day. This voyage is reaching an end and the bill is coming due. The engine is on fire but the captain is telling us all is well. Eventually, everyone will know the captain lied.         

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That’s how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Leonard Cohen – Everybody Knows


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Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:42 | 3253987 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Brilliant analogy.. but there is no tug in sight and the closest port is Mogadishu.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:43 | 3253989 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

You couldn't pay me to board one of those things.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:47 | 3253994 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I'll pay you for sound advice. ;-) OOps you gave it for Free!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:04 | 3254038 zuuma
zuuma's picture

I have 2 free tickets for a cruise on Carnival's SS FECES of the SEA!!


Who's coming along?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:44 | 3254144 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Going aboard one of those ships is like going to prison, you're basically trapped.

Prison SS Feces.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:08 | 3254196 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

This is a brilliant article. 

In seeking predictive metaphors to what we have in store for us during the collapse, there are many other real-world events from which to draw examples.  Besides Carnival, I look at the recent gun control legislation in New York as an accurate model for aftereffects:  certain products are now illegal and unobtainable through executive fiat.  Other products, even if still legal, are either unavailable, priced at 2-5 times old prices and/or restricted in quantity. 

Other models:






Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:12 | 3254301 AssFire
AssFire's picture
This voyage is reaching an end and the bill is coming due. The engine is on fire but the captain is telling us all is well. Eventually, everyone will know the captain lied. "Jerry, just remember. It's not a lie... if YOU believe it.."    George Costanza

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:18 | 3254486 redpill
redpill's picture

It was the Moops!!


Seriously though, I don't know why people do these Carnival Cruises, they are total cattle cars.  Why would you want to be stuck on a boat with 4,000 other people?  If you think the price is "cheap" it's a good reminder that you get what you pay for. 

If you want to go on a cheap tropical vacation at least do one of the all-inclusive resorts that's on land, that way you have somewhere to go and don't become a humanitarian victim overnight when something inevitably goes wrong thanks to various corporate cost-cutting.

If you are going to cruise, it's worth the money to do it right:

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:16 | 3254574 ACP
ACP's picture

Triumph the Insult Comic Joke of a Boat.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:47 | 3254749 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

"If they could see me now..." </kathy lee>

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:17 | 3254836 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

@ Redpill... MOORS!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:37 | 3254620 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Everybody knows....the fat get fatter....all for the price of a cruise

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:25 | 3254692 fourchan
fourchan's picture

can you imagine all those people with out their electronics for a week?

i cant believe teens wernt jumping ship for shore.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:09 | 3254811 Bernankenstein
Bernankenstein's picture

My ex-wife is, in fact, on the Seabourn Quest right in Australia. Awesome ship and crew.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:57 | 3254780 hllnwlz
hllnwlz's picture

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

--Leonard Cohen (A jew.  Read into his sagacity all you want, racist fucktards.)

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 04:37 | 3255460 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

The saga of the SS America.

The one hundred day tow began; American Star [formerly the SS America] and Neftegaz 67 entered a thunderstorm in the Atlantic. The tow lines broke and six or more men were sent aboard American Star to reattach the emergency tow lines. This proved unsuccessful. Two other towboats were called to assist Neftegaz 67. On January 17, the crew aboard American Star was rescued by helicopter. The ship was left adrift. On January 18, the ship ran aground off the west coast of Fuerteventura in the Canary Islands.

While discussions among the ship's owners, the towing firm, and the companies insuring the ship were going on, the ship was left to nature, with the forward part of the ship running aground on a sandbar. Within the first 48 hours of pounding surf of the Atlantic, the ship broke in two just past the second funnel. The ship was declared a total loss on July 6, 1994. The stern section collapsed completely to port and sank in 1996, while the bow continued to remain intact.

In November 2005, the port side of the bow section collapsed, which caused the liner's remains to assume a much sharper list and the remaining funnel to detach and fall into the ocean. The collapse of the port side also caused the hull to begin to break up and by October 2006, the wreck had almost completely collapsed onto its port side.

In April 2007 the starboard side finally collapsed causing the wreck to break in half and fall into the sea. Since then, what little remained has been slowly disappearing beneath the waves. As of February 2012, only a few feet of the ship remains above the water.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:55 | 3254968 The Heart
The Heart's picture

When speaking to the collapse, remind people just what happens when all the water is shut off.

Can you imagine a city full of say, New Yorkers with no running water for maybe say, six months?

Here is the lesson!

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 01:55 | 3255273 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Thank God i'm a country boy....cousins still in Newark, poor souls. 

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 02:21 | 3255319 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

I keep thinking the electrical grid is going to be a key feature on our trip through the valley of death.  I think most preppers have discovered what i have.  That is beans, bullets and bullion haven't been too challenging.  Electrical independence is a different story, and big brother certainly knows this.  This will be their "big stick" to maintain control.  The poorly maintained grid will either fail on its own accord, or its failure will be engineered and repaired as needed. 

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 09:01 | 3255653 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"This will be their "big stick""

That's why the grid is centralized.  The centralization makes no sense when viewed from ecological, economic or security prospectives. 

Ultimately it all comes down to control.  The more you break away, the better off you'll be when the system starts breaking down.  But how long can they keep the ship afloat?  That's the game.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:55 | 3254317 MeMadMax
MeMadMax's picture

SS Feces Prison...

There, fixed it.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:49 | 3254385 oddjob
oddjob's picture

The Captain was not the only one that kept a log on that voyage.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:43 | 3254743 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Captain Charon?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:23 | 3254586 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

Odds are that the Chief Engineer and his assistants are foreign (Philippino...) can't read/write english meaning they can't handle the operating guides and maintenance manuals or even understand the annunciator alarm panels. My guess is that one of these guys was switching over a lube oil duplex strainer, didn't do it right and atomized the oil, it caught fire and they were all toast! This almost happened to me back in the '90's when I caught an assistant engineer improperly switching over a fuel ol duplex strainer and just caught him in time (and this was american merchant marine).

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:07 | 3254663 Boozer
Boozer's picture

No the engineers and navigators are mostly from Italy.  I worked onboard for CCL when they had just 3 ships.

Mid 80's - Purser gig.  Felt if things got out of hand with a serious situation it could not end well.  We pursers often

joked about taking all money out of our safes (as paymaster 2/3 hundred k) and head for the bow where the inflatable

life rafts were stowed.....exit stage left.  The captains tended to be very arrogant and not well liked.....they may have beaten

us to those rafts.  The VP who wrote the email happens to be a very nice person having worked personally with her fwiw.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:51 | 3254636 Gold Dog
Gold Dog's picture

I went on a Carnival Cruise once. Never saw so much back hair and tats in one place and the guys were worse!

Never again.



Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:56 | 3254318 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Obama is a tool and uterly irrelevant. However, how about living in the Ukraine, or in Russia, how about Putin as president? Is the US citizen more free than the russian? or the german? or the chinese? Things I believe are much more complicated.
However I totaly agree with the post.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:02 | 3254329 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Have a little patience! We will get there!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:18 | 3254373 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The parallels between this boat and the world economy are undeniable. Had this boat been taken out of service for a period of time it would have hurt the company for one quarter but now the damage is much worse going forward.

They did the same with the economy. Instead of allowing some liquidations, bankruptcies and hangings back in 2008 they continued to lie about the situation and tried to fix the leaks with toilet paper fiat. Now here we are 5 years later still putting up with the shit.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:37 | 3254416 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ Peter Pan,

Of course the economy is going to collapse. It can do nothing else. All Ponzi schemes collapse, that’s why it’s illegal for anyone but “government” and their bankster masters to engage in a Ponzi scheme. One day we will all wake up and discover that a dollar is just a curious piece of paper with a lot of occult symbols on it.

Yes the ruling elite will try to use force against us to hold on to their perceived power. I do despair that there will be war in the streets of America as the ruling class turns to violence as they always have, and Americans resist. It may cost one million lives to save freedom, but if freedom is lost it will cost many millions of lives as history teaches all who take the time to look it up. So the rulers and their minions are arming up? Well so is America.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:35 | 3254722 fourchan
fourchan's picture

bernake and his franchises the banks, are the effluence in this compairson.

too big to pump.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:04 | 3254335 john39
john39's picture

i would take Putin over obama or the other puppet that lost lat fall in a heartbeat.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:09 | 3254563 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

No kidding. At least Putin is smart, competent, and resourceful.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:40 | 3254624 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

At least Putin has stated communism does not work...

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:45 | 3254629 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

And since they are both sociopaths there is no loss there.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:28 | 3254873 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

We might even GAIN a little psychopath with Putin.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:30 | 3254510 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

All countries are eligible to win the Worst in Show Award.

All it takes is to have a government.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:27 | 3254601 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

He's just another Israeli president. What does anyone expect?

Clinton was the first.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:14 | 3254826 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

oh no no no no no!  clinton was far from the first.  harry truman was the first and he was told again and again by his secretary of state general george marshall (marshall plan after he helped win ww2) that bringing israel into existence in 1948 would bring perpetual war.  marshall resigned when truman refused to back down.  

eisenhower was better, stopping the israelis, french and british from seizing the suez canal.   however lyndon johnson was totally in israel's corner and basically that was the end of any pretension of u.s. evenhandedness in the mideast.  

we are fools and tools.  it is the central error of u.s. foreign policy. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:14 | 3254491 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Jesus.. you're out in the middle of the ocean with no working toilets, and not one person has the idea to dump the shit - literally - overboard? 

And don't give me 'pollution' bullshit. Billions of fish, birds, and mammals piss and shit in the ocean every day - five days of crap from 3200 people isn't going to change the ecological balance by a millionth of a percentage point. 

But the analogy to Bambam's State of Dysfunction speech is perfect, because neither exposes the slightest shred of a clue. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:53 | 3254535 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I'm not arguing with your premise in the least way...


I will add, however, that most of the fish, birds, & mammals of the ocean aren't tubs of lard who are stuffed with nachos made from monsanto corn, cheese 'food', & pink slime...

Except maybe the few 'birds' who take the easy route, fly ashore & eat scraps off the boardwalk, or the poor fish having to deal with Fukushima or other man made problems...


I guess it's a coin flip...

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:38 | 3254716 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Given our diets,

I'd say American's shits are caviar to the salty seas.. sea creatures fight for the right to eat it like a herd of tnaf's racing at a housing give-away.

I would have launched that shit into the sea with a replaced pool slide so the birds could of had their shot as well.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:09 | 3254554 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

True Frank but every berkinstock wearing, granola eating dweeb that could find a piece of cardboard to nail to a stick would be on the beach chanting, Swim in Shit, Swim in Shit, Don't dump the Shit, Don't dump the Shit. 


Fienstien and Family would then conger up a another spoofed bill to grab more gun's all in the name of Shooting the Shit. A bill they would pass before they read it no less. 


So I'm glad they just floated in some nasty Mfer's, corny corn dog shit, literally.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:15 | 3255035 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Crawling on the flooer to get back up...LMAO...ashes to ashes...salt to sea...they those critters never complain about all the re-hydrated dead bio-bots they get.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:11 | 3254568 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Really, why don't those ships have backup porta-potties just in case. The crew could manually pump the stuff overboard when they got full. If they can set them up for the NY marathon with 40,000 runners you would think they could provide them on a cruise ship for 5000.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:18 | 3254580 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yeah ~ & all the airlines could just dump it [& the blue stuff that holds it] across 'flyover country' on LA-NY trips...


In fact, this is a great idea... I'm going to drive my Winnebago over to the White House & dump my toilet out on Chewbacca's OKRA garden...

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:53 | 3254768 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Jesus.. you're out in the middle of the ocean with no working toilets, and not one person has the idea to dump the shit - literally - overboard?

I think that's pretty much standard procedure. For those that actually follow the rules, I think the minimum distance from shore is about 9 miles (16km).

</not a speck of sarcasm>

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:06 | 3255001 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Depends on the Country. Also depends on the size of the vessel. If moored alongside, common courtesy (and common sense) suggests use of a holding tank, however once in International waters most smaller craft  just "pump the Heads" as has happened for centuries. Larger, Commercial vessels have extra rules - and this would be the case with all these floating hotels - they HAVE to have an effective sewage management system, primarily to reduce the risk of de-oxygenation of the marine environment (look up Biological Oxygen Demand - "BOD").

We have a holding tank (welded food grade polypropylene - after a thorough clean-out and sterilise, serves as another fresh water tank when at sea!) and we also have a divert valve system for use when offshore, since in an emergency the pump mechanism on a marine toilet makes quite an efficient bilge pump (and you can never have too many of those!). Used to rely on Lavac - but migrated to ITT Jabsco - OK not as good a quality product, BUT parts are easily and readily available Worldwide, and the units are simplicity itself to service and maintain, especially the bits that are prone to failure (pump shaft seal, diverter valve seals - complete set around 50c)


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:02 | 3254026 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Plenty of employment to be had swabbing the poop deck.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:40 | 3254732 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

When every deck is the poop deck, there's plenty o' swabbin' to go 'round, matey.

Brown Chutes!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:59 | 3254027 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

We've hit the iceberg, backed up, and then rammed it again for good measure. There won't be anyone stupid enough to try to tug our sinking ship of insanity to safety.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:20 | 3254077 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Fight Club is spreading................


Good work Tyler

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:24 | 3254090 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Yup. The Titanic story is an even better analogy for the times, I think. Not much left to do at this point but be smart and get ready. Like the passengers who heeded the (early) lies of "We think y'all should hop in the lifeboats even though we assure you that nothing is wrong". IIRC, the early lifeboat boarders were chuckled at & were objects of amusement/pity from the worldly sophisticates still warm & cozy in the Smoking Lounges - which is why several of them put to sea half-empty.

The lies will continue to work right up to the moment they don't. Then things get ugly, fast. I'm just amazed the passengers didn't riot and kill that cruise ship's captain and officers. They were being (literally) **Shit On**, and they stood there dully and took it like livestock. Guess I'll have to end my boycott of the word 'sheeple'. JESUS, cruise ship morons! WTF will it TAKE for you people to start acting like MEN?!?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:14 | 3254117 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture
Titanic The first staged 9/11 !

JPMorgan has a long history of profitable scams.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:07 | 3254472 duo
duo's picture

remember the snowball fights on the deck of the Titanic with the ice shaved from the berg (it's in the book)?  That's your average schmoe.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:54 | 3254540 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

Of course they stood there and took it like livestock. Didn't you see the pictures with the story. My god man, carnival gave the passengers a courtesy phone charging station. Learn to prioritize. Learn what's important in life.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:33 | 3254883 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture




"Look darling, the masses are revolting." 

"Yes, dear, we must get them their angry birds back."

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:02 | 3254179 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Hey.... the passengers should have known something was wrong when they were given one oar each.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:08 | 3254192 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Those Somali pairates would give them a tow.

Aarrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaarrrr Jim my lad, pieces of eight.......... oh wait wrong type of pirate.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:06 | 3254469 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Cruising captures the essence of America as we traverse our voyage to hell.

Great article.

Ship of the Damned

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:34 | 3254514 Whatta
Whatta's picture

One of the absolute best essays ever posted on ZH.

5 stars and 2 thumbs up!!!

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 10:12 | 3255822 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I think it should have been titled: "Quinny: The Poo"...

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:20 | 3254582 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Sadly the American public are as stupid as cruise ship passengers and voted for this in 2008 while he stole it in 2012 (and maybe 2008).

These horror stories about cruise ships with breakdowns, accidents, murders, rapes and other things are fairly common.  

The people who continue to get on these death ships are idiots.  Brainwashed by TV, Hollywood and cruise ship ads. Cruise ships are dangerous and Carnival is the worst.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:39 | 3254621 MachineMan
MachineMan's picture

And as stupid as the people in 2004

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:28 | 3254872 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

2000 was about the same; remember gore's first act as presidential nominee was to pick joe "mossad" lieberman.  bush we know about.

also don't forget the epidemics of hideous illnesses that these cruises regularly flaunt.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:14 | 3254671 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

are you kidding me....a mega corporation, with lots of resources (aka $$) does not do routine HOT SPOT SURVEYS on high voltage electrical equipment??

this is a routine preventive/predictive measure that will save you ASS with electrical equipment and its CHEAP.

this would have picked up the bad connections/wiring easily before things got worse. i have many pictures of loose lug terminals or faulty wiring that sticks out like a sore thumb on a hotspot survey (infrared picture of the equipment).


this is what happens when BUSINESSPEOPLE runs companies.....they squeeze the last drop out of it.....but it is unsustainable.

see it happen all the time.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:16 | 3255036 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

You don't even need to "invest" in a Thermal Camera (remember these come in a quite a few $1000's) A simple (and $50) IR thermometer will do just fine, AND it'll be easier to squeeze into confined spaces.

VERY USEFUL tool for keeping an eye on high current terminals - battery connections in particular, but also cable ways (short circuit detection) and junction boxes as you rightfully note. Also very useful for keeping a (thermal) eye on rotating shaft seals - and bearings, especially those in hard to reach places.

(Useful for when baking too . . . . . . !)

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 05:03 | 3255480 Zodiac
Zodiac's picture

Great analogies, but this is like the stuffed crust metaphorical pizza.  A little over the top.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:43 | 3253988 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

9/11 MORON Blathering Again

Rather than deal with 9/11Reality, SmokeyQuinn choses the Carnival Cruise Line method of misinformation, denial and delusion. He embraces the 9/11Big Lie concept as if he had created it. With a straight face he continues to blather on even as he ignores the challenge of an open 9/11 debate on ZH.



 Poor Grogman

You have called him on this fair and square in an open forum...

I eagerly await the coming fight.


Behind the apparent insanity of contemporary history, is the actual insanity of psychopaths fighting to preserve their disproportionate power.  And as that power grows ever-more-threatened, the psychopaths grow ever-more-desperate.  We are witnessing the apotheosis of the over world - the criminal syndicate or overlapping set of syndicates that lurks above ordinary society and law just as the underworld lurks below it.  

 In 9/11 and the 9/11 wars, we are seeing the final desperate power-grab or "endgame" of brutal, cunning gangs of CIA drug-runners and President-killers; money-laundering international bankers and their hit-men, economic and otherwise; corrupt military contractors and gung-ho generals; corporate predators and their political enablers; brainwashers and mind-rapists euphemistically known as psy-ops experts and PR specialists.   In short, the whole sick crew of certifiable psychopaths running our so-called civilization.  And they are running scared. It was their terror of losing control that they projected onto the rest of us by blowing up the Twin Towers and inciting temporary psychopathic terror and rage in the American public.

Why does the kleptocracy fear it is losing control? … Because it is threatened by the spread of knowledge.  

The greatest fear of any psychopath is of being found out.

9/11 The Litmus Test

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:54 | 3254010 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

I recall a month or so ago some seemingly out of nowhere feud between a poster and smokeyquinn after the latter posted an article. This must be it returning. Thank you for calling him out, DavidPierre, if he indeed does believe what .gov says about 9/11, as if he does he is nothing but a shill; a troll.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:59 | 3254030 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

SmokeyQuinn will stay over on his sheeple blog doing his favorite activity...

Debating 9/11 on an open forum like ZH is not to his liking.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:41 | 3254129 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

an exception to the roule?:

'reality bites hard... but, ignorance swollows whole!'

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:20 | 3254499 negative rates
negative rates's picture

That's okay, we'll take a Mcmac, two Mcfries, and a couple med strawberry Mcshakes.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:03 | 3254183 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

Same shit from you morons, different day. Have a personal problem with Jim? Grow a pair and go confront him for real. I'm tired of your ranting off topic shit here.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:12 | 3254195 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

Just in looking at this article, I agree with most of it (in the section on the overpromising of benefits like SS, etc., though, I despise when people ignore that the people themselves are very much complicit in these things. They vote for this crap; they vote to give up liberty for a bit of 'security' via warfare and welfare. The Zionists and NWO leaders prey on this, but the people themselves go for this stuff; there is such thing as personal responsibility). My comments were not a referendum on this particular article.This country is going to hell in a handbasket. Most on ZH get that. But if this guy truly believes .gov's tale about what happened on 9/11, then people should be aware of that because 9/11 really was where things picked up as far as Orwellian surveillance state/imperialism 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:45 | 3254291 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Someone, Let me know when these two really go at it.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:11 | 3254360 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

SmokeyQuinn has neither the balls nor the brains to debate 9/11Truth on an open forum where he cannot delete other peoples comments at will.


A direct quote from him off his sheeple blog

"It is good that you were able to take time out from the truther sheep fuck convention to develop a sitcom. I hear JFK is on today. You can sit in front of your TV and jerk off to it. Do you have any ideas about detective dads that bring up morons? By the number of thumbs up you received, it appears that the 9/11 truther retards are still onboard. I guess no other sites will have you mongoloids.

The truthers swarmed the site with their bullshit immediately. Anyone who has been on my site for the last two years realizes that if you don’t have facts to back up your argument, I will obliterate you.

I had the facts when Jason Rines pulled the plug on my old site.

I really don’t care who I offend.

Anyone who has been offended can hit the fucking road.

Then all of the truthers I’ve offended today can quit my site. They can discuss gravity, explosives, jet fuel, video clips of the Pentagon, and how to properly fuck a sheep*."

Since you say you were a firefighter, that makes you an intelligent person.

You should really have special insight into the 9/11 towers. You are a bonafide sleuth.

You really have that mystery solved.

Nobody can pull anything over on you. You are too smart to fall for any tricks.

You are a mystery solver. A man with keen analytical skills. —-A fucking inbred, maggot-infested douchebag. You and all of the rest of the duped Truthers eat dog shit."  


Just one of the responses from Quinn.

*Quinn's favorite retort


For this next comment the 9/11MORON got deleted from his own comment section on his blog.


Hidden due to low comment rating

"Beyond a shadow of a doubt? Amazing that idiots can post such drivel and then are incapable of putting together one paragraph of their own thoughts. Every 9/11 truther is exactly alike. They are only capable of posting links. Not one has ever made a comprehensive case in their own words. They are incapable of independent thought and must rely on “experts” to support their delusional ramblings."

Trying to reason with a truther is like trying to explain that sex with sheep is wrong. Useless."


If you ever go to his sheeple blog and read the comments you should note that Quinn regularly uses aka's ... (usually posting under 'Smokey') when he does his very obscene and racist shit.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:47 | 3254546 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

This is the best that foul-mouth SmokeyQuinn can come up with on his today.


Administrator says:

David Pierre is in a foaming at the mouth frenzy over on ZH, spewing out hatred and vitriol because I won’t respond to his drivel. It’s hysterical to witness the mind of a demented yellow bellied American traitor sheep fucker. I picture him in his dark dungeon like basement with models of the twin towers and Building 7 and toy airplanes reanacting the planes hitting the towers and screaming “pull it” as he jerks off. There are pictures of me all over the wall as he throws his own feces at them, laughing diabolically.

What a sad pitiful excuse for a human being.

He even copy and pasted Stuck’s comment about Boomers onto ZH. He is a nutjob to third power.


He is totally afraid to come out of his Nazi closet and face people on ZH re: 9/11.

So much for the MightySmokeyQuinn and his MSN-TV inspired drivel he writes for sheeple.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:57 | 3254021 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ DavidPierre,

Absolutey!!!  911 was the biggest PsyOp/BlackOp conducted on a Global Scale.  The following by the last real investigative jounalist Wayne Madsen confirms it.

Mossad ran 9/11 Arab "hijacker" terrorist operation

By Wayne Madsen

British intelligence reported in February 2002 that the Israeli Mossad ran the Arab hijacker cells that were later blamed by the U.S. government's 9/11 Commission for carrying out the aerial attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. WMR has received details of the British intelligence report which was suppressed by the government of then-Prime Minister Tony Blair.

A Mossad unit consisting of six Egyptian- and Yemeni-born Jews infiltrated "Al Qaeda" cells in Hamburg (the Atta-Mamoun Darkanzali cell), south Florida, and Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates in the months before 9/11. The Mossad not only infiltrated cells but began to run them and give them specific orders that would eventually culminate in their being on board four regularly-scheduled flights originating in Boston, Washington Dulles, and Newark, New Jersey on 9/11.

The Mossad infiltration team comprised six Israelis, comprising two cells of three agents, who all received special training at a Mossad base in the Negev Desert in their future control and handling of the "Al Qaeda" cells. One Mossad cell traveled to Amsterdam where they submitted to the operational control of the Mossad's Europe Station, which operates from the El Al complex at Schiphol International Airport. The three-man Mossad unit then traveled to Hamburg where it made contact with Mohammed Atta, who believed they were sent by Osama Bin Laden. In fact, they were sent by Ephraim Halevy, the chief of Mossad.

The second three-man Mossad team flew to New York and then to southern Florida where they began to direct the "Al Qaeda" cells operating from Hollywood, Miami, Vero Beach,  Delray Beach, and West Palm Beach. Israeli "art students," already under investigation by the Drug Enforcement Administration for casing the offices and homes of federal law enforcement officers, had been living among and conducting surveillance of the activities, including flight school training, of the future Arab "hijacker" cells, particularly in Hollywood and Vero Beach.

In August 2001, the first Mossad team flew with Atta and other Hamburg "Al Qaeda" members to Boston. Logan International Airport's security was contracted to Huntleigh USA, a firm owned by an Israeli airport security firm closely connected to Mossad — International Consultants on Targeted Security – ICTS. ICTS's owners were politically connected to the Likud Party, particularly the Netanyahu faction and then-Jerusalem mayor and future Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. It was Olmert who personally interceded with New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani to have released from prison five Urban Moving Systems employees, identified by the CIA and FBI agents as Mossad agents. The Israelis were the only suspects arrested anywhere in the United States on 9/11 who were thought to have been involved in the 9/11 attacks.

The two Mossad teams sent regular coded reports on the progress of the 9/11 operation to Tel Aviv via the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC. WMR has learned from a Pentagon source that leading Americans tied to the media effort to pin 9/11 on Arab hijackers, Osama Bin Laden, and the Taliban were present in the Israeli embassy on September 10, 2001, to coordinate their media blitz for the subsequent days and weeks following the attacks. It is more than likely that FBI counter-intelligence agents who conduct surveillance of the Israeli embassy have proof on the presence of the Americans present at the embassy on September 10. Some of the Americans are well-known to U.S. cable news television audiences.

In mid-August, the Mossad team running the Hamburg cell in Boston reported to Tel Aviv that the final plans for 9/11 were set. The Florida-based Mossad cell reported that the documented "presence" of the Arab cell members at Florida flight schools had been established.

The two Mossad cells studiously avoided any mention of the World Trade Center or targets in Washington, DC in their coded messages to Tel Aviv. Halevy covered his tracks by reporting to the CIA of a "general threat" by an attack by Arab terrorists on a nuclear plant somewhere on the East Coast of the United States. CIA director George Tenet dismissed the Halevy warning as "too non-specific." The FBI, under soon-to-be-departed director Louis Freeh, received the "non-specific" warning about an attack on a nuclear power plant and sent out the information in its routine bulletins to field agents but no high alert was ordered.

The lack of a paper trail pointing to "Al Qaeda" as the masterminds on 9/11, which could then be linked to Al Qaeda's Mossad handlers, threw off the FBI. On April 19, 2002, FBI director Robert Mueller, in a speech to San Francisco's Commonwealth Club, stated: "In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper — either here in the United States, or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere — that mentioned any aspect of the September 11 plot."

  The two Mossad "Al Qaeda" infiltration and control teams had also helped set up safe houses for the quick exfiltration of Mossad agents from the United States. Last March, WMR reported: "WMR has learned from two El Al sources who worked for the Israeli airline at New York’s John F. Kennedy airport that on 9/11, hours after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) grounded all civilian domestic and international incoming and outgoing flights to and from the United States, a full El Al Boeing 747 took off from JFK bound for Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion International Airport. The two El Al employee sources are not Israeli nationals but legal immigrants from Ecuador who were working in the United States for the airline. The flight departed JFK at 4:11 pm and its departure was, according to the El Al sources, authorized by the direct intervention of the U.S. Department of Defense. U.S. military officials were on the scene at JFK and were personally involved with the airport and air traffic control authorities to clear the flight for take-off. According to the 9/11 Commission report, Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta ordered all civilian flights to be grounded at 9:45 am on September 11." WMR has learned from British intelligence sources that the six-man Mossad team was listed on the El Al flight manifest as El Al employees.


WMR previously reported that the Mossad cell operating in the Jersey City-Weehawken area of New Jersey through Urban Moving Systems was suspected by some in the FBI and CIA of being involved in moving explosives into the World Trade Center as well as staging "false flag" demonstrations at least two locations in north Jersey: Liberty State Park and an apartment complex in Jersey City as the first plane hit the World Trade Center's North Tower. One team of Urban Moving Systems Mossad agents was arrested later on September 11 and jailed for five months at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. Some of their names turned up in a joint CIA-FBI database as known Mossad agents, along with the owner of Urban Moving Systems, Dominik Suter, whose name also appeared on a "Law Enforcement Sensitive" FBI 9/11 suspects list, along with the names of key "hijackers," including Mohammed Atta and Hani Hanjour, as well as the so-called "20th hijacker," Zacarias Moussaoui.

Suter was allowed to escape the United States after the FBI made initial contact with him at the Urban Moving Systems warehouse in Weehawken, New Jersey, following the 9/11 attacks. Suter was later permitted to return to the United States where he was involved in the aircraft parts supply business in southern Florida, according to an informe3d source who contacted WMR. Suter later filed for bankruptcy in Florida for Urban Moving Systems and other businesses he operated: Suburban Moving & Storage Inc.; Max Movers, Inc.; Invsupport; Woodflooring Warehouse Corp.; One Stop Cleaning LLC; and City Carpet Upholstery, Inc. At the time of the bankruptcy filing in Florida, Suter listed his address as 1867 Fox Court, Wellington, FL 33414, with a phone number of 561 204-2359.

From the list of creditors  it can be determined that Suter had been operating in the United States since 1993, the year of the first attack on the World Trade Center. In 1993, Suter began racking up American Express credit card charges totaling $21,913.97. Suter also maintained credit card accounts with HSBC Bank and Orchard Bank c/o HSBC Card Services of Salinas, California, among other banks. Suter also did business with the Jewish Community Center of Greater Palm Beach in Florida and Ryder Trucks in Miami. Miami and southern Florida were major operating areas for cells of Israeli Mossad agents masquerading as "art students," who were living and working near some of the identified future Arab "hijackers" in the months preceding 9/11.

ABC's 20/20 correspondent John Miller ensured that the Israeli connection to "Al Qaeda's" Arab hijackers was buried in an "investigation" of the movers' activities on 9/11. Anchor Barbara Walters helped Miller in putting a lid on the story about the movers and Suter aired on June 21, 2002. Miller then went on to become the FBI public affairs spokesman to ensure that Mueller and other FBI officials kept to the "Al Qaeda" script as determined by the Bush administration and the future 9/11 Commission. But former CIA chief of counter-terrorism Vince Cannistraro let slip to ABC an important clue to the operations of the Mossad movers in New Jersey when he stated that the Mossad agents "set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists in the area, particularly in the New Jersey-New York area." The "intelligence operation" turned out to have been the actual 9/11 attacks. And it was no coincidence that it was ABC's John Miller who conducted a May 1998 rare interview of Osama Bin Laden at his camp in Afghanistan. Bin Laden played his part well for future scenes in the fictional "made-for-TV" drama known as 9/11.

WMR has also learned from Italian intelligence sources that Mossad's running of "Al Qaeda" operatives did not end with running the "hijacking" teams in the United States and Hamburg. Other Arab "Al Qaeda" operatives, run by Mossad, were infiltrated into Syria but arrested by Syrian intelligence. Syria was unsuccessful in turning them to participate in intelligence operations in Lebanon. Detailed information on Bin Laden's support team was offered to the Bush administration, up to days prior to 9/11, by Gutbi al-Mahdi, the head of the Sudanese Mukhabarat intelligence service. The intelligence was rejected by the Biush White House. It was later reported that Sudanese members of "Al Qaeda's" support network were double agents for Mossad who had also established close contacts with Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh and operated in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Eritrea, as well as Sudan. The Mossad connection to Al Qaeda in Sudan was likely known by the Sudanese Mukhabarat, a reason for the rejection of its intelligence on "Al Qaeda" by the thoroughly-Mossad penetrated Bush White House. Yemen had also identified "Al Qaeda" members who were also Mossad agents. A former chief of Mossad revealed to this editor in 2002 that Yemeni-born Mossad "deep insertion" commandos spotted Bin Laden in the Hadhramaut region of eastern Yemen after his escape from Tora Bora in Afghanistan, following the U.S. invasion.

French intelligence determined that other Egyptian- and Yemeni-born Jewish Mossad agents were infiltrated into Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates as radical members of the Muslim Brotherhood. However, the "Muslim Brotherhood" agents actually were involved in providing covert Israeli funding for "Al Qaeda" activities. On February 21, 2006, WMR reported on the U.S. Treasury Secretary's firing by President Bush over information discovered on the shady "Al Qaeda" accounts in the United Arab Emirates: "Banking insiders in Dubai report that in March 2002, U.S. Secretary of Treasury Paul O’Neill visited Dubai and asked for documents on a $109,500 money transfer from Dubai to a joint account held by hijackers Mohammed Atta and Marwan al Shehhi at Sun Trust Bank in Florida. O’Neill also asked UAE authorities to close down accounts used by Al Qaeda .  . . . The UAE complained about O’Neill’s demands to the Bush administration. O’Neill’s pressure on the UAE and Saudis contributed to Bush firing him as Treasury Secretary in December 2002 " O'Neill may have also stumbled on the "Muslim Brotherhood" Mossad operatives operating in the emirates who were directing funds to "Al Qaeda."

After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise to power of the Taliban in Afghanistan, Sharjah's ruler, Sultan bin Mohammed al-Qasimi, who survived a palace coup attempt in 1987, opened his potentate to Russian businessmen like Viktor Bout, as well as to financiers of radical Muslim groups, including the Taliban and "Al Qaeda."

Moreover, this Israeli support for "Al Qaeda" was fully known to Saudi intelligence, which approved of it in order to avoid compromising Riyadh. The joint Israeli-Saudi support for "Al Qaeda" was well-known to the Sharjah and Ras al Khaimah-based aviation network of the now-imprisoned Russian, Viktor Bout, jailed in New York on terrorism charges. The presence of Bout in New York, a hotbed of Israeli intelligence control of U.S. federal prosecutors, judges, as well as the news media, is no accident: Bout knows enough about the Mossad activities in Sharjah in support of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, where Bout also had aviation and logistics contracts, to expose Mossad as the actual mastermind behind 9/11. Bout's aviation empire also extended to Miami and Dallas, two areas that were nexuses for the Mossad control operations for the "Al Qaeda" flight training operations of the Arab cell members in the months prior to 9/11.Mossad uses a number of Jews born in Arab countries to masquerade as Arabs. They often carry forged or stolen passports from Arab countries or nations in Europe that have large Arab immigrant populations, particularly Germany, France, Britain, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands.

 Bout's path also crossed with "Al Qaeda's" support network at the same bank in Sharjah, HSBC. Mossad's phony Muslim Brotherhood members from Egypt and Yemen controlled financing for "Al Qaeda" through the HSBC accounts in Sharjah. Mossad's Dominik Suter also dealt with HSBC in the United States. The FBI's chief counter-terrorism agent investigating Al Qaeda, John O'Neill, became aware of the "unique" funding mechanisms for Al Qaeda. It was no mistake that O'Neill was given the job as director of security for the World Trade Center on the eve of the attack. O'Neill perished in the collapse of the complex.

For Mossad, the successful 9/11 terrorist "false flag" operation was a success beyond expectations. The Bush administration, backed by the Blair government, attacked and occupied Iraq, deposing Saddam Hussein, and turned up pressure on Israel's other adversaries, including Iran, Syria, Pakistan, Hamas, and Lebanese Hezbollah. The Israelis also saw the U.S., Britain, and the UN begin to crack down on the Lebanese Shi'a diamond business in Democratic Republic of Congo and West Africa, and with it, the logistics support provided by Bout's aviation companies, which resulted in a free hand for Tel Aviv to move in on Lebanese diamond deals in central and west Africa.

Then-Israeli Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu commented on the 9/11 attacks on U.S. television shortly after they occurred. Netanyahu said: "It is very good!" It now appears that Netanyahu, in his zeal, blew Mossad's cover as the masterminds of 9/11.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:13 | 3254055 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

 he must have many tags to keep down arrowing.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:24 | 3254080 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Solving 9-11:

The Deception That Changed The World

Christopher Bollyn

As you read you will understand just exactly who and what foreign political interest actually attacked on September 11, 2001.

These foreign political interests with their traitors (George Washington referred to these types as tools and dupes) inside our U.S. political establishment attempted to deceive us in order to pursue their foreign-sponsored political will and expansionist policies in the Middle East.

As you read, the real perpetrators of the 9-11 attacks will become apparent, and they will be identified. The motive will become clear, and you will see this peg as a natural fit.

You will understand that our country is filled with Tools like SmokeyQuinn who devote themselves to the foreign nation, and have sacrificed the interests of their own country, with popularity, gilding, with the appearance of a virtuous sense of obligation.

You may even find yourself supporting a new investigation into the attacks of 9-11.



Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:26 | 3254097 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture
Dr Alan Sabrosky; Treason, Betrayal and Deceit: 9/11 and Beyond

Published on Jan 6, 2012

Alan Sabrosky (Ph.D., University of Michigan) is a writer and consultant specializing in national and international security affairs. In December 1988, he received the Superior Civilian Service Award after more than five years of service at the U.S. Army War College as Director of Studies, Strategic Studies Institute, and holder of the General of the Army Douglas MacArthur Chair of Research. He is listed in WHO'S WHO IN THE EAST (23rd ed.). A Marine Corps Vietnam veteran and a 1986 graduate of the U.S. Army War College, Dr. Sabrosky's teaching and research appointments have included the United States Military Academy, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Middlebury College and Catholic University; while in government service, he held concurrent adjunct professorships at Georgetown University and the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS). Dr. Sabrosky has lectured widely on defense and foreign affairs in the United States and abroad.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:40 | 3254131 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Urban Moving Systems was suspected by some in the FBI and CIA of being involved in moving explosives into the World Trade Center".


The controlled demolition fraud, again.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:12 | 3254485 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"The FBI's chief counter-terrorism agent investigating Al Qaeda, John O'Neill, became aware of the "unique" funding mechanisms for Al Qaeda. It was no mistake that O'Neill was given the job as director of security for the World Trade Center on the eve of the attack. O'Neill perished in the collapse of the complex."


Notice that the name of the person who assigned O'Neill to the WTC, was not mentioned by the author.  Yet the author says it was not a mistake that he was assigned there, noting that O'neill perished in the collapse.  So did 343 fire  fighters. Maybe the author can connect them with having become aware of the "unique" funding.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:46 | 3254151 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"Anchor Barbara Walters helped Miller in putting a lid on the story about the movers and Suter aired on June 21, 2002."

American of Jewish descent, Babwa WaWa in cahoots with Massad.  Sounds like Lyndon LaRouche-ies are on the loose!  Hey, I'm not saying I believe or disbelieve any or all of the official story - but one thing we don't know for sure - if this was a psy-ops false flag - WHO RAN IT?  I mean there's a LOT of various groups/nations that you could argue would perceive the most gain from destroying the twin towers...

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:40 | 3254278 moneybots
moneybots's picture

Conspircy book writers have made a lot of money attempting to paint anyone but Oswald as the real killer of JFK.  The book Texas Connection asked who had the most to gain from the death of JFK- pointing the finger at LBJ.  Others argued it was the mob, Castro, etc.  Nearly 50 years later no one has been able to prove it was anyone other than Oswald.



Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:48 | 3254437 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Quinn articles are awesome for putting an end to the oft-repeated meme that everyone who posts at ZH "gets it" and are the smartest guys in the room. . .

just another slice of humanity, with fruit 'n' nuts included.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:26 | 3254595 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "Nearly 50 years later no one has been able to prove it was anyone other than Oswald"


It was Col Mustard in the Library with the Candlestick

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 20:51 | 3254533 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Conspiricy book writers have made a lot of money....the official story of 911 has never been proven wrong..the .gov really has our best interests at heart.

Call all the conspricy book writers greedy morons if you want, but at least they don't sit back and use the time-tested official sneer that 'no one has proven it'.



Tue, 02/19/2013 - 12:05 | 3256238 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Conspiricy book writers have made a lot of money....the official story of 911 has never been proven wrong..the .gov really has our best interests at heart.

Call all the conspricy book writers greedy morons if you want, but at least they don't sit back and use the time-tested official sneer that 'no one has proven it'.




They haven't been able to prove anyone but Oswald did it, because no one other than Oswald did it.  There wasn't any controlled demolition,either, which is why the hoaxers haven't been able to prove one occurred.  No time tested official sneer is involved in what i am saying.

I never called the conspiracy book writers greedy morons.  I find it interesting that you are trying to twist my words.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:10 | 3254566 knukles
knukles's picture

Nobody proved it was Oswald for fucks sake!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:23 | 3254593 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It was all about LBJ getting rich off the Vietnam War plus military contractors in Texas.  Which probably included the Crown family who baced Obama (General Dynamics aka F111).  Gulf of Tonkin and LBJ got insanely wealthy of Vietnam.

You tube has a retired technical guy who did optics and metals.  He determined the kill shot was fired from a storm sewer. 

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 12:15 | 3256282 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Nobody proved it was Oswald for fucks sake!"


That is because there never was a trial.  However, the evidence pointed to Oswald.  The rifle was Oswald's, he went to Paine residence the night before and took an enclosed package to work with him.  His rifle was missing from the Paine residence when police arrived to search.  The evidence pointed right at Oswald as being the shooter in the 6th floor window. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:31 | 3254710 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture


The Vulcans.  No, not the Hollywood ones associated with Mr. Spock.  The neo-conmen in Washington.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:31 | 3254965 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


Good one...bookmarked...Thanks!


I’d like to stress that this event, the destruction of several buildings in New York City and the purposeful bombing of the Pentagon is a complicated, convoluted crime of vast proportions. Nothing like this has ever happened.  Throughout the entire span of the history of human civilization no one has committed a crime of this proportion.

This is and was the greatest crime ever perpetrated. Not only were almost 3,000 innocent Americans sacrificed for National Security by desperate criminals but literally trillions in gold and securities were traded and accumulated over a span of 50 years and more.

The number of people involved in the greatest financial scam in global history is mind-numbing. Trillions of dollars can be used to pad the pockets of many hundreds of people. If these crimes were exposed many hundreds of people would have been imprisoned for life.

Initially the official designation of “terrorist attacks” made it difficult to discern a pattern to this event and that cover was a good one which threw off a great many people for a number of years. However if the destruction of the World Trade Center, a segment of the Pentagon, four commercial aircraft and the loss of 2,993 lives is not considered as a “terrorist attack” but rather as a crime with specific objectives, there is a compelling logic to the pattern of destruction, not only of the buildings but of specific offices within each building.

That logic provides a glimpse into a world few of us ever see and it solves numerous anomalies and questions related to days surrounding Nine Eleven.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 01:03 | 3255182 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Yah...das goot!

Thanks for the truth that has been well known, and now sees more light.:

"The perpetrators of this event were the same globalists, the same bankers and industrialists who would go on to profit obscenely from perpetual wars. Feeding, housing, clothing, providing medical care and caring for a one million man armed force engaged in combat overseas while supporting that force with continually depleted armaments, bullets, bombs and guns is profitable beyond their wildest expectations."

Question to America. How many more will you send to die for the banksters wars?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 21:08 | 3254560 NYMom
NYMom's picture

Firstly, my thanks to all of you ... uh, well...most of you, for keeping me humble in learning all I do not know, everyday.
This is my first time commenting. I will now be educated in what you all mean by up arrow/down arrow.
In light of what we all just went through with Sandy, did you know that on 9/11 there was a huge category 3 hurricane sitting directly off the coast of NYC?
The build up to Sandy in the news and the Mainstream media hawking it's arrival for a week prior, is something we would expect, no? Remind yourself how the MSM gets unhinged when they anticipate a couple of inches of snow.
My question then, is why don't I remember hearing a peep about this storm? Do any of you? Do you recall running out for eggs and other staples? picking up some candles?
No, me either.
Meet Erin

Due to the profound affect this sad day in our history had on me and an innate feeling that all of what we were told, the "Official Story", was seriously lacking in logical explanation, I have searched for some understanding of how and why.

I have read the theories and the 911 Commission's report, I have watched every video available on Youtube (well, maybe not all of them) and yet still felt something was amiss.

About a month ago, while reading, I was linked to a website that literally blew my mind.

A scientist named Dr. Judy Wood wrote a book " Where did the Towers Go?".
This book, is a comprehensive compilation of photographic evidence coupled with science, explaining the anomalies found within the photographs, video and audio taken that day.
The towers collapsed at a higher rate of speed then it would take a billiard ball, falling in a vacuum, to reach ground from the same 110 story height as WTC1 and WTC2.
Fireman reported that they found bodies, clothes still intact, however the bodies were charred beyond recognition. How does that happen? Oh yes, jet fuel and thermite!

Cars inexplicably charred inside, on one side, burning blocks away without any indication that burning, falling debris had been found. Entire parking lots, blocks away, filled with charred vehicles, however the trees and surrounding grass are pristine and green. The grounded metal signs, also unmarred.

Do you recall the tipping top of WTC1 as the building collapsed?
That image was and remains one of the most disturbing visuals for me. Maybe it was the horror of seeing the unthinkable and realizing the magnitude of the devastation and the fear I felt at that moment. All I know is that it is an image forever and permanently seared in my brain.
Wouldn't physics dictate that the tipping top would have toppled, falling 110 stories to the ground, right? Instead, it went POOF.
Dustified, a term used often in this book.
If you want to believe that the extensive heat from burning jet fuel, or the addition of thermite used in a controlled demolition was the cause, then where is the rubble pile? Where are 110 stories of 500,000 tons of cement and steel? Where are the toilets, thousands of them, the desks, the chairs. Only one filing cabinet was found and it was twisted like a pretzel.
Why did everything go "Poof"?

There are 500 pages in this book filled with far more damning evidence. The official story we have all been fed is malarky.

Dr. Woods does not point fingers at who is responsible or why. She does however point those who have the stomach to "go there" toward the horrific and possibly ONLY explanation of what occurred that day - DEW. Directed Energy Weaponry.
Her extensive research asks the following:

E. Here are the principal data that must be explained:
The Twin Towers were destroyed faster than physics can explain by a free fall speed "collapse."
They underwent mid-air pulverization and were turned to dust before they hit the ground.
The protective bathtub was not significantly damaged by the destruction of the Twin Towers.
The rail lines, the tunnels and most of the rail cars had only light damage, if any.
The WTC underground mall survived well, witnessed by Warner Bros. Road Runner and friends. There were reports that "The Gap" was looted.
The seismic impact was minimal, far too small based on a comparison with the Kingdome controlled demolition.
The Twin Towers were destroyed from the top down, not bottom up.
The demolition of WTC7 was whisper quiet and the seismic signal was not significantly greater than background noise.
The upper 80 percent, approximately, of each tower was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth.
The upper 90 percent, approximately, of the inside of WTC7 was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth.
One file cabinet with folder dividers survived.
No toilets survived or even recognizable portions of one.
Windows of nearby buildings had circular and other odd-shaped holes in them.
In addition to the odd window damage, the marble facade was completely missing from around WFC1 and WFC2 entry, with no other apparent structural damage.
Fuzzballs, evidence that the dust continued to break down and become finer and finer.
Truckloads of dirt were hauled in and hauled out of the WTC site, a pattern that continues to this day.
Fuming of the dirt pile. Fuming decreased when watered, contrary to fumes caused by fire or heat.
Fuzzyblobs, a hazy cloud that appeared to be around material being destroyed.
The Swiss-Cheese appearance of steel beams and glass.
Evidence of molecular dissociation and transmution, as demonstrated by the near-instant rusting of affected steel.
Weird fires. The appearance of fire, but without evidence of heating.
Lack of high heat. Witnesses reported that the initial dust cloud felt cooler than ambient temperatures. No evidence of burned bodies from the cloud.
Columns were curled around a vertical axis, where overloaded buckled beams should be bent around the horizontal axis.
Office paper was densely spread throughout lower Manhattan, unburned, often along side cars that appeared to be burning.
Vertical round holes were cut into buildings 4, 5 and 6, and into Liberty street in front of Bankers Trust, and into Vesey Street in front of WTC6, plus a cylindrical arc was cut into Bankers Trust.
All planes except top secret missions were ordered down until 10:31 a.m. (when only military flights were allowed to resume), after both towers were destroyed, and only two minutes (120 seconds) after WTC 1 had been destroyed.
Approximately 1,400 motor vehicles were towed away, toasted in strange ways, during the destruction of the Twin Towers.
The order and method of destruction of each tower minimized damage to the bathtub and adjacent buildings.
More damage was done to the bathtub by earth-moving equipment during the clean-up process than from the destruction of more than a million tons of buildings above it.
Twin Tower control without damaging neighboring buildings, in fact all seriously damaged and destroyed buildings had a WTC prefix.
The north wing of WTC 4 was left standing, neatly sliced from the main body which virtually disappeared.
For more than seven years, regions in the ground under where the main body of WTC4 stood have continued to fume.
The WTC1 and WTC2 rubble pile was far too small to account for the total mass of the buildings.
The WTC7 rubble pile was too small for the total mass of the building and consisted of a lot of mud.
Eyewitness testimony about toasted cars, instant disappearance of people by "unexplained" waves, a plane turning into a mid-air fireball, electrical power cut off moments before WTC 2 destruction, and the sound of explosions.
Eyewitness testimony of Scott-pak explosions in fire trucks and fire trucks exploding that were parked near the WTC.
There were many flipped cars in the neighborhood of the WTC complex near trees with full foliage.
Magnetometer readings in Alaska recorded abrupt shifts in the earth's magnetic field with each of the events at the WTC on 9/11.
Hurricane Erin, located just off Long Island on 9/11/01, went virtually unreported in the days leading up to 9/11, including omission of this Hurricane on the morning weather map, even though that portion of the Atlantic Ocean was shown on the map.
Sillystring, the appearance of curious cork-screw trails.
Uncanny similarities with the Hutchison Effect, where the Hutchison Effect exhibits all of the same phenomena listed above.
* Is it possible that such a technology exist? Since invention of the microwave for cooking in 1945 and lasers in 1955*, commercial and military development of directed-energy technology has proceeded apace, so use of directed-energy technology is likely to exist -- and the data tells us it does exist.

Her website is
A good place to start but get ready to lose several hours.
The book is well worth the price.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:06 | 3254627 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Never fear a down arrow...

The more the merrier!

It shows your message is getting through the white noise of the usual trolls.

Maybe try... ... It is a little more down to earth than Judy Wood.

9/11 News Special

Barry Zwicker's latest effort.  He was one of the first to open the Pandora's Box of 9/11Lies.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:12 | 3254669 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

DP, I think ZH has been infiltrated. The proportion of down to up seems to be considerably higher than I would expect from most established readers. Me thinks... trolls-by-the-score have descended upon you. Wield the sword accurately, strike them down and NEVER stop speaking the truth.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:29 | 3254877 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


Coming from a self admitted asshole those are kind words indeed.  SmokeyQuinn is on the run from his own articles here as he has not the balls to get into the ZH fight club ring.  So like the pussy that he is, he hides out in his sheeple blog and circle jerks with all the MORONS there.

Now to quote a for real ASSHOLE off his blog... in conversation with one of his regular patsies.


Stucky says:

Well, I went to ZH to see what was being said.

That low class sheep fucker, David Pierre, edited my comments. I would seriously love the opportunity to meet this faggot face-to-face, and deliver some Stucky love to his face. Admin, arrange it if you can.

However, there also many conspiracy comments. Of course, DP tried to turn it into a 9-11 debate. Somehow the Titanic and JFK conspiracies came up. And that’s only reading 3 pages of comments. I couldn’t stomach any more. IF I ever go back again —- they do post interesting stories from good writers, it seem —– I will certainly never again read the comments section. Too many fucking nutjobs on that site.


Administrator says:


DP is a seriously demented nutjob with a sub 70 IQ.

He’ll be copying and pasting your comment onto ZH as he continues to stalk TBP with his warped sense of reality.

Can you imagine what his imbred spawn look like?


This is what passes as serious intellectual debate for those TBP-9/11MORONS.




Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:45 | 3254929 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

The last resort of a loser in a verbal debate is to hit below the belt with personal attacks. Pull the cup straps tighter, take the kicks, and keep the smile on your face. More battles will come. The skills are sharp. Use them well.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:18 | 3255029 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

I've had a four year-running, multi-blog punch out with TheMightySmokeyQuinn. 

He is now in the corner of the ZH fight ring covering his bleeding face with his hands and bawling like a big baby.

He has to either admit to the TRUTH about 9/11 or throw in the towel and not post on ZH again.

DavidPierre will be waiting for you, center ring @ FIGHT CLUB,  SmokeyQuinn.



Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:07 | 3255006 NYMom
NYMom's picture

Thanks David. I am aware of AEtruth but find it disconcerting that Gage refuses to engage in discussion regarding the evidence Wood has compiled. Why? The use of thermite cannot explain the many anomalies of that day nor can it explain the complete pulverization of the Towers.
My BS meter when to high alert when I watched him discount her hard, serious and quite frankly brilliant research with the statement "we have different agenda's" - really????

Here is the link

I am not discounting AETruth and the questions they raise. However, I cannot discount Wood either. IMO she kept digging and answers questions Gage cannot.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:16 | 3255041 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Your points are well taken.

It is always thus... the fog of war.

Follow the Money!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:36 | 3254700 PrintemDano
PrintemDano's picture

I live in the Sandy area in NY, there was plenty of warning to us.   It turned out worse than the fear mongers anticipated but there was plenty of warning.  I also work for the local utility and we were in "Code Red", forced to work.  I did fill all my cars and gas cans with gas, and fired up my generator for a test run 2 days before it arrived.

Reading books about "scientific" findings on 9/11 that have a pre determined belief in what happened isn't going to teach you anything.  You might as well read Al Gore's "science" about imaginary AGW.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:51 | 3254756 chindit13
chindit13's picture

This is cutting edge Moonbatology.  You have lifted the genre to an entirely new level.  I see a book tour and speaking fees in your future, maybe even groupies from the Alex Jones audience.  You’d better copyright your “analysis” before Dave takes it;  I think he's looking for work.


Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:56 | 3255167 NYMom
NYMom's picture

Never thought I would actually type the following words, but may I quote Ima anal sphincter?
"The last resort of a loser in a verbal debate is to hit below the belt with personal attacks."
Thank you IAS.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:55 | 3254773 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


you saved up all your posting karma to be spent in one fell swoop!

welcome.  post more.  that was some brilliance sorely needed, particularly on *this* thread.

the silent downvotes are screams for help, trapped in the story. . . keep sending out lines of truth, to be grasped when finally ready.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 01:32 | 3255235 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I agree (+1)... Go 4 it NYMom... [but take heed of associating with the likes of francis_sawyer around here]...

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 03:20 | 3255391 NYMom
NYMom's picture

I thank you both.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 06:26 | 3255520 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

I usually dig far enough to be convinced.  Building 7, molten steel, stand down = false flag.  You should spend the rest of your considerable intellect dissecting the moon landing and how so many people can believe such a ridiculous fairy tale.  I won't even get started on evolution.

Wagging the Moondoggie

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 12:45 | 3256407 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"The towers collapsed at a higher rate of speed then it would take a billiard ball, falling in a vacuum, to reach ground from the same 110 story height as WTC1 and WTC2."


That is a false statement.  Column sections free falling in mid air, were falling faster than the WTC towers collapsed. I believe it was Alan Shephard that proved Newton's law, dropping a feather and a hammer in a vacuum on the Moon.  They fell at the same rate.  The Towers fell at a rate slower than a free falling billiard ball would have fallen, asa demonstrated by the free falling column sections.


" Here are the principal data that must be explained:
The Twin Towers were destroyed faster than physics can explain by a free fall speed "collapse."


That is another false statement.  The free falling column sections demonstrated that the Towers did not collapse at free fall speed, let alone faster than free fall speed.  Dr. Woods should be able to see that from watching any of the readliy available videos of the collapsing Towers, thus she has no reason to make such a false statement.


"They underwent mid-air pulverization and were turned to dust before they hit the ground."

Another false statement.  There was a huge pile of debris that took months to remove from the site.


"The demolition of WTC7 was whisper quiet and the seismic signal was not significantly greater than background noise."

An indication that the building collapsed due to the fire and not controlled demolition.  Controlled demolitions are loud, due to the explosion of the demolition charges.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:43 | 3253990 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Karnival Printing... Ltd.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:43 | 3253991 reader2010
reader2010's picture

The truth of the matter is that the captialism as we know is approaching its end. You can deny the fact anyway you desire but that doesn't change the fact itself.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:50 | 3254000 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

well I define capitalism as synonymous with voluntaryism/free markets/nothing coerced/aggressed, so what has been going on is not at all capitalistic. 19th century was as close as it got, as far as property rights and laissez faire being the underpinnings of all that prosperity and industrialization. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:16 | 3254064 IEVI
IEVI's picture

some people define capitalism as a system whereby those with capital command the labor of those who do not

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:44 | 3254142 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Capital does not "command" labor in a free society, and labor is free to work or not in that society. 

Capitalism has its faults - there is not one human endeavor that doesn't - but there is NO OTHER economic system that provided more prosperity to more people more quickly than free market capitalism.  (And that began BEFORE the age of oil.)

What we've had in our baby boomer lifetimes is but a skeletal reminder of freemarket capitalism greatly corrupted by - again, normal human progress - crony capitalism BUT JUST WAIT!

What Obummer and His Progressives have in mind for us will leave us all remembering crony capitalism with great fondness.

Down arrow all you like but Quinn hit it ON THE MONEY on this one, again. 

(ps, D. Pierre, go call names on another playground.  You are really boring.)

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:10 | 3254199 Karlus
Karlus's picture

Reader2010: Disagree strongly. True capitalismis what made America great. Have an idea, set up a biz, work hard and you can profit.

No other system aligns progress with personal benefits.

What we have now is basically transfer payments for a voting populace. At some point the people with the guns will get off of the couches and kill these parasites.

The pols will not even realize it is happening as it will be so swift and violent. Even if its slow, its just a matter of embargoing food to the northeast.

The current transfer system just wont stand. Debase the currency, you get war.

It is as simple as that.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:36 | 3254113 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I am always baffled at how people think the late 19th century in America especially after the Civil War was some kind of capitalistic paradise when the reality is far from that.  Just read any biography of a prominent robber baron especially Rockefeller or Morgan or Vanderbilt.   Hell read some of the famous anarchist literature of times.  There is a good reason that it flourished especially from 1880 until WW1. T

hey did largely as they pleased and as they wanted sweeping aside those individuals, companies, and politicians/government who stood in their path whether legally or illegally.  Often a combination of the two especially if they couldn't bully there way initially.  If it involved completely destroying or even killing people to do so, so be it as long as the reward was worth it and they could insulate themselves far from it.  

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:45 | 3254149 IEVI
IEVI's picture

it seems to me that throughout the history of man debt slavery and debt peonage were the foundation of all financial systems, capitalistic or otherwise



Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:49 | 3254157 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

just remember that all government is, is force. No matter how much 'it' may be anthropomorphized as this benevolent 'entity,' it is nothing but force. By definition it is antithetical to liberty.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:19 | 3254226 IEVI
IEVI's picture

How much does it cost to buy the entire congress?

How about the presidency?

As long as politicians can be bought, the government will be working for the capital money holders and those guns will be aimed at those without capital.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:28 | 3254245 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Best of all is that you do not need the entire Congress-- almost half will vote your way anyway. Even if you are in the minority you just need a couple votes from the other side. Wall Street did not want a Fiscal Cliff on Dec 31st, so all they had to do was buy Boehner, Cantor, Ryan and a two dozen more Republicans in the House. It worked, and was cheap too.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:30 | 3254254 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

The politicians shouldn't have that power to dole out in the first place. The bottom line is that mankind is inherently sinful and greedy and power hungry. We live on a finite planet here. Nothing is and nothing will be perfect. Only when Christ returns to claim His own will there be perfect peace. Liberty is a blessing. People have come out of poverty and private property is the crucial thing. The ability to make something of one's self and not be subject to kleptocrat/arbitrary rule. Capitalism, or voluntaryism, is the most moral system because the only way to make money is through voluntary means, and to serve your fellow man. Or just more broadly, it is the most moral system because true anarcho-Austrian capitalism involves no force. Things done voluntarily are by definition beneficial. It is not zero sum. 

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:13 | 3254207 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

So are you equating our current system with debt slavery?  There are those that will willingly accept the bonds of debt but most of us do not.  I've spent my life working for and paying for what I have.  One does not have to participate in debt peonage.

Any that profess this as debt slavery do not understand slavery.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:05 | 3254332 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Your place of employment pays you just enough so you feel as though you're not a slave, and then various entities take a portion of what you earn because they say that they need to, to keep things running, and you relent without a fight. You've spent your life doing this. How is that not slavery?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:35 | 3254890 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

1-IF you EVER felt that you were "paid just enough so you feel as though you're not a slave" and you did nothing to improve your own marketability, then that is a CHOICE you make.  Words mean things, and slavery, by definition, means you do not make your own choices.  YOUR OWNER DOES.

2-If by "various entities take a portion of what your earn" you mean taxing authorities, then get over it.  We all have to pay taxes.  Are they too high? Sure.  Are they used for purposes we would not personally choose?  Sure.  But we can work to try and change those things.  Sometimes change happens, sometimes not.  It does NOT make me or you a slave to participate in a system in which we disagree with some of the operational details.

3-I repeat - words mean things so here's a definition to clear the air:  Slavery means ownership of a person or persons by another or others.  Syn. - Slavery emphasizes the idea of complete ownership and control by a master. (Random House Collegiate Dictionary, 1975)

We have an overbearing Federal Government that has morphed into an entity grown so large that it threatens to become our master but we as-yet free people will have a chance at revolution first well before true slavery becomes our lot.

The faults of the FedGov are NOT the faults of capitalism.  Gov't grows under tyranny much easier, faster and ruthlessly much more so than under capitalism.  Look how long it has taken us to go from freedom to oppressiveness.  But slavery?   No.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:22 | 3254687 IEVI
IEVI's picture

Also, you do realize the system was built around debt, so if everyone were like you the system would collapse.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:13 | 3254824 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Nope.  I think debt is part of the bastardization of capitalism.  It wasn't built to be so.

Debt wasn't part and parcel of the American 'way of life' till Mastercard and Madison Av in the 50s.

The system may collapse NOW as a result of the huge amount of debt but that ain't the fault of the system itself, but the actors within.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:52 | 3254163 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

I am always baffled at how people think everything would be just fucking perfect if only capitalism would just wither away.

What happened before America and her pursuit of property rights and freedom? We're not perfect now and we weren't then.  Life wasn't a great big playground for anyone prior to the industrial age and without the freedoms and rights afforded and protected by the Constitution, some of those men known as robber barons would have rolled the whole country up into their big ol kingdom. 


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:13 | 3254206 IEVI
IEVI's picture

What makes you believe that those robber barons didn't do exactly that?

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:22 | 3254231 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Because I've been FREE my entire life to choose where to go to college OR NOT, where to work OR NOT, make my own mistakes LOTS, work for my own success and free to live where I choose, marry when and whom I choose,  quit a job when I choose, etc. 

Kingdoms and other centrally planned governments like to have a hand in those decisions.  That's why I believe. 

I know it isn't a perfect system, but when this one is killed - and "they" are busy killing it - we will not have a better system to fall back on just a better 'computer-enhanced' redistribution of wealth by the central authorities that's all.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:30 | 3254250 IEVI
IEVI's picture

I think you've misinterpreted my comments. I am all for liberty and the freedoms that were supposed to be protected by the Constitution, I just think the people running the show don't share those beliefs.


Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:45 | 3254282 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

I may have, then.  I happen to share your assessment.

That being said, there are way too many who seem eager to toss the baby out with the bathwater without considering what the day after will bring.  It is so easy to tear down - everyone seems to do it - but it takes generations to rebuild the trust it takes to restore rights and freedoms once lost.  I fear for civilization itself to listen to some of the posters here.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:19 | 3254377 IEVI
IEVI's picture

The current financial system that we have requires endless growth. In the finite world that we live in this is unsustainable and becoming more obvious as each day passes. Most people, including and especially those running the show, are fearful of the end of our current financial system because they don’t see any other way except catastrophe, so they are willing to do everything and anything to keep it going. That is why Bernanke will never stop printing, in a feeble attempt to generate that needed growth, and why we are seeing the militarization of this country, and the crushing of anyone who offers any alternatives to the current power structure, and the elimination of the freedoms we thought were guaranteed.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:44 | 3254926 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture


I agree with every word you wrote. 

You are right, they are fearful.  I could not sleep if I knew I had to keep this thing running every day. 

Your own avatar does not indicate infinite confidence either.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:37 | 3254417 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

For those people stupid enough to want government, here's a clue for you:

The only kind of government you're going to get is the kind your rulers want you to have.

Government is a parasite, and hosts don't get to choose what the parasite does.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:23 | 3254234 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

They did roll the whole country into their kingdom essentially.  As for 'letting capitalism wither away' that is generally a nonsense argument and a non-sequitor.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:58 | 3254305 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

How would you explain what happens to it when it is taken apart from within and without, inch by inch, law by law till it is left an unrecognizable mass of a former order that defined a former system of economic exchange? 

Wither is too slow a term.  I used it just to play on the Marxist Promise (speaking of "nonsense arguments").  Better to call it uprooted and ripped asunder by the redistributionist and revisionist socialist progressives!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:04 | 3254039 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


We are all Urinators.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:40 | 3254132 smacker
smacker's picture

Capitalism as you know it is not proper capitalism but a bastardised model of corporatism created by your comrade socialists. Socialism - by whatever name it calls itself today - destroys everything in its path. Always has done and always will do.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:19 | 3254375 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Thank God! Maybe we can try some real capitalism for a change.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:40 | 3254425 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Not a chance.

It can only happen if the vast majority are anarchists.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:48 | 3253997 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Modern cruise ships are just too flimsy.  They are nothing but giant hotels parked on little barges.  They are not built to withstand the slightest storm, accident, or equipment failure.  Give me the stiff ships and stern crews of yesteryear.



Mon, 02/18/2013 - 16:58 | 3254022 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



I hear White Star Lines made some indestructable vessels that would rival the vitality of their German airship contemporaries.

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 17:26 | 3254098 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I believe JP Morgan financed them, so I would also suggest investing in their stock.  /sarc

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 18:28 | 3254148 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

alas ~ he decided to skip the trip at the last minute... There were actually TWO 'Titanics' [twin ships]... The one that is at the bottom of the ocean is one that was damaged the year before... They were switched in dry dock & the damaged ship was scuttled to collect on the insurance money [thus avoiding a near total loss & possible bankruptcy on the previously damaged ship]... Actually, it was damaged TWICE...

The liner at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean is the RMS Olympic, not the Titanic...

Oddly ~ next week, if the Academy of Motion Pictures & Sciences decides to award 'ZERO DARK THIRTY' with the Oscar for Best Picture... That will be two movies that won Oscars based on big hoaxes... It's GOOD to be able to re-write history to your liking...


Oh yeah ~ & arabs with boxcutters who are practiced in the art of tossing passports out the windows of jets [while steering with one hand & doing complicated maneuvers] travelling at 500 mph milliseconds before they explode into fireballs are responsible for 911... The 'dancing Israelis' were just doing so because as the towers were coming down, the wreckage missed their favorite bagel shop... 

It's all there in the report...

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 19:05 | 3254343 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Titanic: The first staged 9/11?

JPMorgan has a long history of profitable scams.

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