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Guest Post: Who's Living Large in Retirement?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Dennis Miller, via Casey Research,

Who fares better in retirement, pensioners or folks who saved up their own respective nest eggs? If you look at the numbers, you might be surprised to learn who's really "living large" after retirement.

Regardless of how you made your money, what determines if you're rich when you retire? Frankly, it isn't how much money you made, but how much you accumulated that counts. So who are the real rich people?

Retirees generally fall into one of four groups: folks who retired from the private sector with a 401(k), IRA or a lump sum payout in lieu of a private pension; those with a government pension; self-employed folks who saved their own respective nest eggs; and finally, those scraping by on Social Security alone.

The U.S. Census Bureau reports that in 2010 the top 10% had a median net worth of $1,864,000. If you're worth that much or more, 95% of the population thinks you're rich. But are you?

When my wife and I were first married we had a negative net worth. No silver spoons for us! By our late 50s we were successfully self-employed and in the top income tax bracket. And yet, once we paid federal and state income taxes, plus Social Security and Medicare, about 50% of our gross income went to taxes. We raised a family with what was left.

Once the children left the nest, we were in the race to the retirement finish line. For us, like most folks, that's when we really began to accumulate wealth for retirement. Here was our challenge.

For a self-employed person to end up in the top 5%, with a net worth of $1,864,000, he would have to earn a spare $3,728,000 before taxes. Now that sure sounds rich, but is it?

Assuming this person lives in a paid for home worth $564,000, that leaves $1,300,000 in his portfolio for retirement. And let's assume he and his spouse receive $35,000 a year in combined Social Security payments.

Today the best rate for a FDIC-insured CD is 1.1%. If the entire portfolio was in CDs, it would pay $14,300 in interest. Add that to their $35,000 in Social Security and they earn just under $50,000. Remember, 95% of the population thinks they're rich. Their retirement income is likely no more than 40% of what they earned when working.

And the winner is...

Firefighters in Contra Costa County, CA have a state law protected pension; many receive over $100,000 annually. (Their department is also closing four stations to make budget.) I have several friends who retired from the government who've received a large increase the last couple of years, bumping their pensions to well over 80% of their former salaries. Many regularly risked their lives, and I don't begrudge them a dime.

But it would take a self-employed person $2 million in earnings to net $1 million, which could fund an $11,000 pension. It would take just over $9 million for a person in the private sector to fund the pension equal to a Contra Costa County firefighter.

So who is living large?

Those who are fortunate enough to have sound government pensions are living very well compared with those in the private sector.

So what do I tell baby boomers in the private sector? First get out of debt. The quicker you can start accumulating wealth, the better. If you have any type of tax-deferred retirement plan like a 401(k) or an IRA, strive to maximize your contributions.

Once you have maximized tax-deferred accumulation, move on to the next phase. Start accumulating wealth long before your nest is empty. Even saving just $20/week beginning at age 50, with a modest 4% growth rate, will turn into $31,573 by the time you are 70. Through the magic of compounding, $20,800 saved over 20 years will earn $10,773 on top. Start the process and watch it grow; it will make you want to save more.

Don't rush out and join the fire department. Whether you are in the government or private sector, the combination of tax-deferred retirement income, savings and prudent investing, and most importantly—having an easy to use plan that you’ll actually follow—is what will help you enjoy your "golden years."

In our Money Forever letter we recently developed a monthly income plan using some of the safest dividend stocks on the market. The plan is easy to follow, doesn’t require an extensive background in investing or even that you start with a lot of money; you just need a willingness to learn and a desire for reliable monthly income. Click here to find out more.

 

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Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:52 | 3261439 ACP
ACP's picture

This is absolutely correct - state workers always live in the best neighborhoods in CA.

The firefighter pension is for the lowest-level firefighter. A Captain will have well over a $200k pension.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:53 | 3261448 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

ACP,

Yep, the parasite does very well until the host dies.  Then its shit out of luck.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:00 | 3261457 ACP
ACP's picture

Here's some more detail that will piss off anyone who actually works for a living:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Non-Union-Retirees-Rake-in-200k-Plus-Pensions-168179636.html

Excerpt:

The "fattest of the six-figure pensions guaranteed by California taxpayers" go to a former San Joaquin County superintendent of schools and a fire chief in San Ramon Valley, both of whom take home more than $295,000 a year.

THIS ZH ARTICLE ACTUALLY UNDERSTATES THE PROBLEM!!!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:05 | 3261474 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

And so Calpers is fully funded for all this largesse? Clearly the frugal governors of California have been socking away for just such returns to its employees. 

Or, just debase the currency so 100-200K will buy a loaf of bread and a half tank of gas. Problem solved, no need to change legally guaranteed benefits. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:08 | 3261481 SilverTree
SilverTree's picture

Is Tulving sold out?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:32 | 3261723 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Get out of debt. check

contribute to 401k ,IRA not so much. seeds, lead, brass,silver,gold & black powder /dirt. Thats how i roll.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 01:37 | 3262289 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Math is sterile and cold, but I love it (even if I don't excel at it & never have) because it doesn't lie. Statistics may misrepresent since they're subject to tortuous skewing and false correlation-causation narratives, but not plain old arithmetic.

And the plain old arithmetic clearly demonstrates that a massive number of those now working or even already in retirement, who are vested in pensions, government and otherwise, are going to experience one of 3 things (or perhaps a combination of these things):

1)   Their pension will be paid in increasingly debased fiat, and in increments of debasement that are FAR higher than historical rates of inflation (that's the price that will have to be paid in order to avoid a de jure default on the underlying contract, even if it constitutes at least a partial de facto default).

2)  Their pension will be slashed significantly in nominal and real terms, in order to avoid having the base pension fund from evaporating prematurely (which will have the same practical effect as number 1 above)-- and The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) will not be liquid enought to gap fill the shortcoming.

3)  Their pension will be outright voided, based on events such as Chapter 9 municipal bankruptcies, corporate bankruptcies, and the simple failure of certain pension funds for other reasons, and which the PBCG will refuse to assume or can't assume (due to its own "issues").


Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:55 | 3261610 knukles
knukles's picture

CalPers and CalSters are Not Fully Funded
Even the way they count it
They do not calculate funding needs on a PBO but rather an ABO basis (not exact but close enough for gubamint work) meaning that the liability is grossly understated.  The ABO generally and over simplified but again CEFGW assume that the world simply stops today.  Nobody ever accrues another days work, which is a dumb ass irrelevant number.
But close enuf for...
Then, it is said by sources in the "profession" that some of the assets have not been effectively marked to market as should have been done.  Marked to Myth type efforts.
To wit:  I have been told that there are scads of real estate investments been basically wiped out gone Gonzo Alonzo that are still carried at cost because somebody somewhere believes they have some economic value and land shall again rebound... some where over the rainbow.

So, the accounting that is put forth by such entities is sadly, grossly underestimated as to the true economic effective cost to the taxpayer.
And these folks live large, nice vacations, Porches, Mercedes 500 classes, top end restaurants, weekend jaunts to the big city to take in the plays, dinners, etc....

We the people been had.
They gave themselves all this shit without saying a Goddamned thing.  And then quit the jobs, draw pensions and even get consulting jobs with the same entities on the side to double dip. 
Waste of Fucking Money

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:14 | 3262241 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

There worst part and I live in Sac, thwy don't work hard, the aren't really very smart (I went to school with most of them) and they wouldn't no what working in a for profit/free market day was like in the their lives!! It's astounding shit when you are a hard working entreprenuer who has fallen on tough time (back climbing ladders)...insane. My solace is God gives me the struggle so I get to see and feel more than most. These people are living in la la land.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:01 | 3262218 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Don't forget that CALPERS owns many of the capital appreciation bonds purchased from bankrupt entities who's employees retirement is in......CALPERS.

What a fucking pretzel.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 07:50 | 3262583 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

I'ld prefer that the municipality just file for bankruptcy and renig on the pension obligations.  When more municipalities do this, those heavy on the teat will leave in droves, and it will send a clear message to those wishin to loot the public.   (Wait till the affordable health care crap kicks in .... insurance companies collapse, followed by hospitals, all by gov. decree).

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 08:34 | 3262633 sbfeibish
sbfeibish's picture

celestial justice (def.)

"Or, just debase the currency so 100-200K will buy a loaf of bread and a half tank of gas. Problem solved, no need to change legally guaranteed benefits. "

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 08:34 | 3262634 sbfeibish
sbfeibish's picture

celestial justice (def.)

"Or, just debase the currency so 100-200K will buy a loaf of bread and a half tank of gas. Problem solved, no need to change legally guaranteed benefits. "

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:28 | 3261536 greyghost
greyghost's picture

just another rich ass cry baby. will be glad when zero hedge leaves these fucktards behind and stops posting their endless dribble. enough already. compared to my grandparents from the thirties forties fifties and their tax rates this clown is living in hog heaven. if this cry baby wants to bloviate why not direct attention to the federal reserve and it's banker friends. holy shit just another moron that finds it easy to point fingers at their fellow citizens. it's all soc. sec. and medicare and food stamps and high tax rates and that fucktard next door and welfare and those damn mothers and apple pie and guns and.......................this clown has never had a thought about why all these programs were started....never. maybe just maybe some people knew that since they allowed the federal reserve and their banker friends to "SKIM" the economic cream from the top, that maybe some would be left wanting. so now the bankers aren't happy with just the skim, they are taking it all, the butter fat, the cream and now the 2% milk. it is not the person next door, it is not your parents or grandparents. when good times roll do you blame those people for your good fortune? grow up people and start putting the blame squarely where it belongs.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:35 | 3261552 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You are comparing nominal amount of Federal Reserve Noted over two different generation and money systems - they had gold backed dollars to a point and this generation has nothing back dollars. The life s millionaire in the 20's is much different than the life a Millionaire now.

On a different not about this article, I stopped reading after the part about maxing out 401k. Sure one can get lucky with the right fund and timing, but I won't play in that HFT trading market that is levitated with ZIRP, QE, money laundering, and fucked up PE ratios; all the whole the Feds pick their chops at those "holdings".

I believe I also stopped reading your post after something about the millionaires' champaign sorrows.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:35 | 3261553 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Umm. I think you would like to have typed "drivel". Not that spelling is the major flaw in your comment. 

You might start by re-reading the original post, then contrasting your comments. It seems you are adressing phantom issues.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:26 | 3261537 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Pensions are the equivalent of promising your daughter a Lamborghini for her 16th birthday when you work part-time at Starbucks.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:44 | 3261580 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

And then pimping off your Granddaughter in order to actually fund it..........

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:46 | 3262026 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Then buying it yourself for "security reasons" and leasing it to her.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 07:58 | 3262590 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

You forgot to add, (for the Government Pensioner) that the tab gets picked up by the Starbucks customer (a tax payer).  Sooner or later the customer switches to a less expensive brand when faced with declining discretionary dough, or gives up on the high priced coffee altogether.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:24 | 3261696 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Lifeguarding in OC is totally lucrative; some make over $200k

 

High pay and benefits for lifeguards in Newport Beach is the latest example of frustrating levels of compensation for public employees. More than half the city’s full-time lifeguards are paid a salary of over $100,000 and all but one of them collect more than $100,000 in total compensation including benefits.

 

http://orangepunch.ocregister.com/2011/05/10/lifeguarding-in-oc-is-total...

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:48 | 3262027 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 01:19 | 3262337 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

At least the lifeguards do what they do without guns. They do it for people who are largely too stupid to respect nature, precisely because there is someone to save their asses (moral fucking hazard)...just like banks.

I cannot tell you how many mouth breathers, we've risked our lives to save, because they are too stupid to avoid into a class V+ monster that wants to eat you. Meantime Search and fucking Rescue stands on the river bank waiting to call in a a fucking helicopter, because it's "not their job"

/search and recover rant -off

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 08:04 | 3262595 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Maybe its time to take down all those tall chairs, send the lifeguards home and post signs "swim at your own risk, your results may vary" .... and put a list of all the Hazards.

 

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:09 | 3261484 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Why can't we make the respective unions finance their OWN retirees/

See if they agree to a cut then!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:18 | 3261683 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

"Don't hate the playa.....hate the game!"

Local Union (fill in the blank CA public servant)

 

On a side note, just another reason to bump up the income tax rate to 13%......RETROACTIVELY. 

 

No sympathy here. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:53 | 3262041 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Yeah well Pennsylvania is paying file clerks about as much as non-union computer programmers so it ain't all roses in state employment either.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 08:22 | 3262614 RKDS
RKDS's picture

 

Gee, I wonder where the down arrow came from, an overpaid file clerk, a Republicrat politico, or an imbecile parroting whatever they head on Hannity last night.

 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:18 | 3262254 PGR88
PGR88's picture

My kid's kindergarten teacher just retired -and bough herself a new Mercedes 500 SEL

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 09:59 | 3262885 midtowng
midtowng's picture

My brother is a state worker in CA and he lives in an apartment complex.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:52 | 3261443 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Marry a Rothschild.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:13 | 3261497 kito
kito's picture

or a Walton, or a Slim, or a Gates....

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:53 | 3261449 john39
john39's picture

maximize your 401k cntributions?  so the government or bankers can steal it?  good one...

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:10 | 3261488 CPL
CPL's picture

If the early indications of contribution so far this year versus historical are correct.  Then I understand that all that disposable income (credit cards) are at their limit.  Plus true employment income has shrunk enough that there is no benefit to contribute a dime to them, shopping in general like Walmart is noticing now.

Then news articles like this one start to pop up.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/16/1187559/-How-the-Hell-do-you-get-OUT-of-a-401k

And ilustrated examples of how to dump a 401k fast.

http://www.softpanorama.info/Skeptics/Financial_skeptic/Protecting_your_401K/index.shtml

 

Everyone knows it's coming and are running hard sensibly.  If you've got one, don't be the last guy out.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:18 | 3261678 SIOP
SIOP's picture

CLP, that artice "Protecting your 401K" looks like a good read, I will be reading it over the next few days, thank you.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:31 | 3261717 CPL
CPL's picture

Lots of sensible input on how to manage the problem of being trapped in a forced or stuck position in a 401k.  

The author keeps on topic of how people can save themselves a lot of pain by understanding what a 401k really is and how to put yourself into a defensible posture while trouble is brewing.  While people won't get to keep it all, they will at least manage to save more than if the panic button was hit.

Judging by world banks moving in a hard line to devalue themselves.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:14 | 3262242 Edmon Plume
Edmon Plume's picture

You can't use "dump" "fast" and 401k in the same sentence.  It can - and probably will - take weeks to withdraw, depending on your financial "manager".  I've seen months.  As soon as you submit a withdrawal request, it's like they become government employees.  Paper shuffling, foot dragging, you name it.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:12 | 3261496 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

No shit...  I'll be able to pull that money out in about 45 years...  if the government or other parties don't steal it first.

In this regulatory and economic environment, who the fuck would stuff an illiquid account full every year of maximum contributions?  Fuck, of any money?

I get it if you have old man balls and are on the brink of retirement, but jesus...  for young people, getting started early contributing to a retirement plan just means you get to be fucked more often and longer.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:15 | 3261508 CPL
CPL's picture

Young people should wait for the next economy before investing in this one, better yet, build their own.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:52 | 3261602 Manthong
Manthong's picture

401k's made some sense until "they" demonstrated that FRN's had no wealth preservation value and that the markets are all a kabuki.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:08 | 3261644 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

There won't be a next economy.  There is only the illusion of one.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:31 | 3261721 CPL
CPL's picture

Well, it'll probably be called trading again.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:45 | 3262180 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Indeed. Don't forget that any savings and assets (house etc) must first be liquidated if/when you need to get Gov handouts. These tax-payer-funded handouts are only for those who did not save or build. They are for Takers, not for Makers.

Kirk to crew: Prepare to beam down. Set phasers on stun. For now.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:55 | 3261452 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

Buy silver and do it with honesty and integrity.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:04 | 3261473 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

...and volatility. Ouch!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:13 | 3261495 CPL
CPL's picture

If you find someone selling at 28.70 let me know.  I have a truck that I need filled.  All that there is paper.  Cheap, unbacked, worthless paper.   They can keep it.  

In fact I'm willing to pay 35 per real (and tested) ounce if you have some, 5 shy of the $40 street rate but if you feel nervous holding silver I can take it off your hands right now.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:19 | 3261523 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

CPL,

 

 

Street rate here at LCS is $1.00 over spot for OPM rounds.

They just received 3900 shiny friends.

Well not 3900 any longer.

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:28 | 3261541 CPL
CPL's picture

It's the same everywhere, it's already spoken for months in advance.  Central Bank of Canada closed the silver sales and started issuing the paper variety.

 

1/2 ounce of silver can be bought from the mint for a 'reasonable' 40 bucks on a 'ten' dollar coin.

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/12-oz-fine-silver-coin-the-beaver-2013-prod1630013

.5 gram gold coin 80 bucks.

http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/0.5-g-fine-gold-coin-hummingbird-mintage-10000-2013-prod1630009

 

Please note that mint up until a couple of years ago didn't produce such small weights en masse.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:01 | 3261624 2bit Hoarder
2bit Hoarder's picture

CPL ... i buy from silvertowne.com  never had any problems with them.  just bought gold and silver today.

 

http://www.silvertowne.com/c-498-silvertowne-bars.aspx

 

http://www.silvertowne.com/p-21494-2013-canadian-gold-maple-leaf-1oz-bu....

 

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:38 | 3261737 CPL
CPL's picture

They got caught selling shaved coins in 2010.  I tuned them out after that, be careful of 'deals' in shiny objects that have value.

 

If I pay for 99.99 I don't want 97, 96 or 92.  I want my 99.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:36 | 3262287 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

http://comparesilverprices.com/

'nuff said...

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:49 | 3261592 Umh
Umh's picture

You can by sheet or wire sterling from jewelry supply companies.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:11 | 3261649 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

I bought at $2.50 over spot, or could buy American silver eagles at $5 over, just a few days ago, at 2 different local shops.  Where are you, that price over spot is so high?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:14 | 3261501 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Talleyrand,

 

 

 

Feels good when you BTFD !

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:58 | 3261459 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

If there was a way of puking on the Internet, it would be after reading this post.

There are a lot of people who risk their lives to help others.  Some get paid for it, some not.

However, bankrupting a county, city, state or country for six figure pensions is rediculous at best and probably closer to the definition of insanity.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:56 | 3261615 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

If fire fighting were privatized, how much would those privatized fire fighters be paid? What they're worth, about a third of the cost of government ones.

The government ones are just another bunch of tremendously overpaid parasites.

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:44 | 3261755 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

Where I live we have volunteer fire departments. It works great.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:26 | 3262133 Edelweiss
Edelweiss's picture

  I guess it depends on who's volunteer fire department we're talking about.  My town's volunteer fire department details all calls they respond to on facebook.  In the past week they have arrived at someone's home twice to discover the fire was in fact in the fireplace, and being used to heat the house.  I shit you not.  For both of these dire situations, several engines, and at least one fire chief attended.  Both times, more than one department was dispatched to the scene due to overlapping jurisdiction I suppose. Wise use of resources? They may volunteer(respectable) time, but they don't pay for the fuel, equipment, etc. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:00 | 3261465 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Buy a little farm, eliminate all debt, become at least moderately self reliant.

Fuck the system.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:09 | 3261483 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Done, done and done.  I lump guns under the "moderately self reliant" heading.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:15 | 3261510 fuu
fuu's picture

Now sit back with the rest of us and poke fun at the thing.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:51 | 3261768 Hulk
Hulk's picture

and have a cigar

you're going to go far

you're going to fly high

you're  going to make it if you try

there going to love you !!!!

 

thats a lot of goings for one song...

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:19 | 3261520 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

"Buy a little farm, eliminate all debt, become at least moderately self reliant..."

Then watch as property taxes (actually rent, because we serfs can't truly own a farm) go through the roof and your standard of living declines. Eventually you die and hand over half of your shit to Uncle Sam.

They'll always find a way to screw you; the best you can hope for is to find your own little ways of screwing them back.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:27 | 3261539 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

McMolotov,

 

 

Alloidial Title the property, if you live in one of the states which continues this opportunity.

Pay 6-8yrs taxes and OWN the non-taxable land.

Why do you think the govt. and banks convinced Boomertards to borrow against and not

free themselves from slavery. Buncha dumbf*^$.

Property liability is also removed. 

At least in this state it is. 

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:27 | 3261708 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

And which state Sir/Madam, would that be?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:34 | 3261725 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

"Alloidial Title" <-- Definitely going to look into that.

 

What state please?

 

EDIT:

Searching; looks like only Texas offers that.  MOVING!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:50 | 3261837 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'Searching; looks like only Texas offers that.  MOVING!'

Edited Correction: Barring conspiracy theories and tin foil lawyers, Allodial Title does not exist in the United States. Nevada ceased giving it in 2005. In was thought that Texas has limited Allodial Title, to prevent independent, unincorporated lands from being annexed and taxed by a city (a city annexes your lands, then taxes you to death). This does not exist, and has never been used in Texas law.

Bottomline: Allodial Title no longer exists for the average citizen (or 'sovereign') in the United States.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:13 | 3262239 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You are correct.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:59 | 3262055 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Texas has a provision for "considering" alloidal land under state law. Key word.

Boomertards & buncha dumbf*^$-----------Show me the law & when it was last considered.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:58 | 3262211 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Nevada and Texas are the only states, and Nevada stopped the creation of new alloidial titles after June 13, 2005.  If you find one, you'll pay a premium in Nevada.  That leaves good ol' Texas.

I wonder if Oracle's Larry Ellison got alloidial title to the island (Lanai?) he bought in Hawaii.  Then he will truly rule like a king that he thinks he is.  If not, his billions and campaign contributions are sure to 'sway' the election of the next crop of Hawaiian politicians.  /But, unlike all those other countries, we don't have corruption in the US. /sarc.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:16 | 3261672 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The more self reliant you are, the more latitude you have in choosing your battles. Property taxes are a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. A little due diligence goes a long way in improving your chances of success.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:05 | 3261471 MoneyThangs
MoneyThangs's picture

Obama pays me 90 grand/year to smoke weed and watch non-biased programs like Jon Stewart and Bill Maher. And Yes, Working is for suckers

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:03 | 3261472 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

I have decided to leave this shithole of a pacnw and am off to Texas. I am not about to live in a state that is as liberal as wa. It was not bad raising a family compared to Idaho (total Nazi state) but now that the kids are grown, fvkit.. I am going to go to the eagle ford boom and make my fortune! Oh and I am going to have a high capacity mag in my weapons as well!! Fvk you bernak. obombya, frankenfienstien, boxer and all the other whores like shumer and the fvkin jews in name only.. JINOs

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:07 | 3261477 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Pro tip:  You can use the word "fuck" here.  For example: Your post did not make any fucking sense.

Youre welcome.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:13 | 3261499 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

I never say fuck.. so fvku

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:29 | 3261543 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

when you referred to idaho as a "nazi state" that's when I realized you had shit for brains.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:47 | 3261589 CPL
CPL's picture

Trees, fresh air, Hippies, tyedye stands, potatoes, big mountains and nice people.  Nazi isn't the first thing to come to mind about Idaho...

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:01 | 3261625 knukles
knukles's picture

Black Helicpoters.
Lots of Black Helicopters.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:43 | 3262020 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

What he meant by Nazi is lots of white people that hate furenoirs.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:27 | 3261538 graneros
graneros's picture

Good luck.  Can't blame you for leaving WA. If you don't like Idaho what makes you think you'll like Texas?  They are both "red" states but TX will be blue before too many more years pass.  By the way you might want to brush up on your Spanish.  Just a friendly tip.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:41 | 3261572 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

I tried North Dakota.. wholy shit I thought Idaho was cold! I lived in Texas in the 80's so I know what to expect also lived 2 years in Vegas. I liked the warm evenings of Vegas.. but wearing gloves to open the car door during sunshine hours was different! N E way.. Texas is booming like no other state and a boom means opportunity so out of all the states, I see Texas as the one that will possibly make me enough money to get out of dodge when/if/as soonas/ tshtf.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:07 | 3261479 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Screw pensioners getting huge checks.  Get down here in the cess pool slime with the rest of us.

And don't give me that "the banks and the government stole all the money" BS.  That's only a small player in what was always a radically over-optimistic calculation for those benefits.  They were always calculated from the high-water-mark for investment returns, or even higher.  YOU WERE OVER-PROMISED.  You won't get much sympathy from me if those promises are someday broken.

I was promised nothing, so I know exactly what to expect.  My kids, unfortunately, or perhaps mercifully, will never know what prosperity looked like so they won't miss it.  I'll never tell them what was stolen from them by previous generations before they were even born.

 

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:11 | 3261650 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I'm so with you there nodebt! Our government worker friends go on and on how they are promised this money. I have to bite my lip bloody not to say what I really feel. When mr miffed was hired in 1981 he was PROMISED a pension of 5000/ month. In the 1990s it was capped at 2000. Last year we were told the fund was severely underfunded. They offered us a cash out which we took figuring by the time we needed it we'd be screwed. We calculated it would be about 250,000. We were given 160,000. Not much for retirement but we feel better it's in our control. We'll see what the future brings. My gov pension pals are very comfortable and complacent. I'd be scared shitless if I were in their position.

Miffed:-)

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:11 | 3261485 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Nah...

load up on fixed rate debt, buy something real (does not have to be gold but some would be nice)...

be sure you can service that debt load....then....wait...

the currency will hyperinflate or pigs will fly, if it is pigs flying get your Biden approved shotgun and shoot your lunch...

The nation can never pay it's debt in good , stable purchasing power currency, it will never endure painful deflation, regardless of the DV01 implications....

therefore it will print print print

as the currency collapses pick a few trillion dollar notes out of the gutter, pay off those pesky debts, take your real stuff and retire in style.

Hopefully you invested in something that depreciates for tax purposes and of course you made sure the interest is deductible...

see...easy

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:09 | 3261487 Number 156
Number 156's picture

Firefighters in Contra Costa County, CA have a state law protected pension; many receive over $100,000 annually.

Rhetorical questions:

What happens if Contra Costa County goes into bankruptcy, and California doesn't have the money either? Will Sacramento bail out the Contra Costa County FD pension funds or themselves first?

What happens if inflation takes off so high where 100k doesn't seem like very much anymore?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:12 | 3261494 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Number 156

move up to the head of the class

you have good worries

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:14 | 3261661 knukles
knukles's picture

In CA depends on the plan
If Contra Costa is a CalPers participant, if CC goes belly CalPers still owes the pensions... but then again makes no further contributions which do muddy the waters...
Now, the Constitutional Protection in CA is not written that you hereby are constitutionally guaranteed a pension, etc.
What is written (oversimplified) is that contracts may not be abrogated unilaterally.  So, Contra Costa (CC) cannot just say, we no payee you, no pension etc/Calpers may not.
What's in it for CalPers is that participating cities, counties, etc., have a contractual commitment to fund the plans for their employees participating therein. 
Fair enough.

But what if they stop?

Rubs and Nuts of Matters.

There is legal gearing up in CA with some of the bankrupted (so called, really no formal legal process as Ch 11) cities where they want to cease contributions to CalPers or cut payments (if not in CalPers) to retirees.

The big fight is drawing the following line.
Who the fuck has priority over tax receipts (not income, not revenues FFS)?
Is it bondholders first and pension plans second, or pension plans first and bondholders second?

You can guess just where the opinions lie for what participants.

This type of decision will be the LandMark WaterShed ruling of the Century and will no doubt make it through the US Supreme Court.  For there are no state bankruptcy laws.. they're all Federal.

Sure, go scratch your nuts while you can afford it, because if the Pensioner comes out on top, the bondholder gets fucked and any increases in taxes and you can betchur ass they'll happen, will go to the pensioners, meaning services just plain cease because of no money and taxes get raised even further..... 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:57 | 3261914 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

There's a simple solution. If the pensions can't be paid they pass the "windfall pensions" tax. Yes, you get your $295,000 per year pension mister non-descript hack government employee school superintendent (drone factory supervisor, really). Annnnnnd then we'll have a special tax on pensions over $50,000 per year such that you end up with $50,500 per year.

Problem solved!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:13 | 3262099 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

That means they will not have any money left over for golf & the under aged hookers. They'll be pissed!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:18 | 3261521 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Depends, in numerous instances, municipalities have been prohibited by courts from denying promised payments to pensioners...  However, that can be fixed with your last question...  I sincerely doubt they will be indexed to inflation, let alone real inflation rates.  [hell, they're already getting shit on, albeit rose smelling shit compared to the rest of the plebs].

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:22 | 3261528 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

What happens if Contra Costa County goes into bankruptcy, and California doesn't have the money either? Will Sacramento bail out the Contra Costa County FD pension funds or themselves first?

No problem. Obama and the Federal Government will bail out California and other "deserving" states.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:10 | 3261490 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

What the fuck is retirement?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:13 | 3261502 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

You lie down and stop breathing.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:30 | 3261544 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

That's what it used to be, and people had better get used to it again. The modern concept of retirement is an anomaly, historically speaking.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:03 | 3261673 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

you go before the regional Gubmint Equitable Longevity Assessment and Resolution Board after a grueling fight and plead unsuccessfully for medical treatment you need to live before wandering off into unauthorized area (the woods) with a pocketful of lethal pills that you had stashed away before the Daily Needs Dispensement System for the Common Good was implemented and the Gubmint confiscated all unauthorized materials such as weapons, meds, metals, chemicals, tools, past print materials such as books, letters, photos, diaries, currencies, etc,.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:14 | 3261825 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:17 | 3261519 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Retirement means you go to work at Walmart or McDonalds for minimum wage when your 65.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:44 | 3261752 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Times have so changed! 10 years ago all of our couriers were young college kids. Now they are all 60+. Their job is to take coolers full of medical specimens and ferry them to various facilities. Every hr each courier comes to our lab and delivers an average of 4 coolers weighing about 10lbs a piece. They now have this elderly man who looks like he's pushing 80. Every hr I see him struggle to load the coolers into his car. We all now take turns helping him, holding the door so he won't get hurt. Frankly sometimes I have to hold back tears as I do it. He always thanks me so profusely. I see my future. I pray someone will, at least, be there to hold the door. Oh... and yes, fuck you Ben!

Miffed:-)

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:43 | 3262018 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Yes, fuck bernanke indeed. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:08 | 3262082 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Bless you for helping him. We're all headed there if we make it that long.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:40 | 3262165 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Thank you for helping him open his door and loading the cooler's.

 

And Fuck you Bernake!!!!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:51 | 3261601 Broomer
Broomer's picture

You should watch this movie called Blade Runner.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:36 | 3262157 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

Logan's Run?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:12 | 3261492 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

What a buncha shit that above article is. I was forced into a fvkin401k while working prevailing wage in construction. After a year of +investment+ in the SAFEST program allowed, the fvkers charged me 15.89 to lose me 13.65. Lucky for me i didnt have a shitload in a 401K!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:12 | 3261493 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

We have built a bomb of incredible proportions.Each small explosive device, by itself destructive but of minor consequence alone, placed about a core of enriched debt, levered by countless financial instruments. Each of these small, strategically placed charges, when detonated will create a critical mass of debt that will unleash the binding elemental bonds of society (trust) resulting in only God knows what. Standing by for the count down.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:17 | 3261680 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Five.....

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:44 | 3262022 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Four....

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:15 | 3262107 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Three...

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:24 | 3262127 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Two..

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:42 | 3262177 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

One...

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:13 | 3261500 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Very funny so-called 'financial advice' above ... Article says

« Even saving just $20/week beginning at age 50, with a modest 4% growth rate, will turn into $31,573 by the time you are 70 ... »

Ha!

Where is a guy with only 20 USA fiatscos going to get 'four per cent' interest ?

What will US $31,573 be worth 20 years from now ... a bag of groceries ?

For a guy who is 70, with 30 thousand bucks today in America, what happens to it ? It disappears suddenly ... something Medicare doesn't cover ... some situation, the banks foreclose on his house even tho he owns it free and clear, and the American lawyers steal all his savings 'to save his house' ...

The fireman's big pension etc., just underlines the point the whole American system is going to explode ... the 'financial advice newsletter' sales pitch at the end of the article sounds like the same shite they have sold for years.

« ... tax-deferred retirement income, savings and prudent investing ... »

Ha! ... Americans who believed sales pitches with those words are often broke now.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:23 | 3261530 seek
seek's picture

Yeah, factor in the real rate of inflation and the purchasing power of that "saved" $31K in 20 years is worth about $10K in today's dollars.

Save money to go backwards. That, in a nutshell, is why we're fucked until the reset hits.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:59 | 3261620 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

if I was 70 in America, with only $31,000 ... I would make sure my teeth were fixed.  I would get a medical marijuana card and a pile of books, and a comfortable chair; and probably do just fine.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:54 | 3261779 Seychelles
Seychelles's picture

Right.  The whole "investment" construct is a financial services conjob.  Most people are way ahead of the game over their working lifetimes if they can break even with their saved after tax dollars.  Most "investors" lose big.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:15 | 3261506 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

$1,864,000 isn't enough for a decent pension????  Just draw down 3% - 5% a year and hope you pop yer clogs before senility.

Some people just don't live on the same planet. This article smacks of jealousy and angst, for choosing the wrong path in life.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:24 | 3261533 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It's also kind of suspect that two empty nesters need a $500k house...  here, for $500k, you could get probably 4000 sq ft of top shelf, brand new construction on multiple acres w/ large shop. 

And he's complaining about receiving $50k/year in SS and interest, but that's $10k more a year than the average family here makes in a year... 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:52 | 3261603 GCT
GCT's picture

Macho I was thinking the same dam thing.  Hell the median wage for a family of four here is 35 grand!  500k home here would be on one of the best golf courses in the state and be 6000 sq ft or a3000 sq. ft. home in the country with 200 acres!

Shit you can buy a 200 acre working farm here with 4 chicken houses making 6 figures a year for 500k!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:42 | 3261878 Marge N Call
Marge N Call's picture

Curious GCT (in a good way), where is "here". I live in the suckass Northeast (yes it sucks).

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 14:07 | 3267495 GCT
GCT's picture

Marge I live in Arkansas.  Originally born and raise in CA, Venice Beach.  The people here are friendly and would give you the shirt off their back.  They shut the factories down here for two weeks during deer season as no one will give up hunting hehe.

It is a poor state though, the cost of living is great though.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:16 | 3261507 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

How about the school superintendents in New Jersey who retire with $200k + in pension plus two years of accumulated sick pay and medical coverage for their entire family for life , then get a job in the New York or Pennsylvania school system and get paid a full salary while accumulating another pension. Sweet. And you thought teaching was for dweebs.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:25 | 3261534 seek
seek's picture

Teaching doesn't pay. Being and administrator does, however. Just look at the admin to teacher ratios over time, or admin salary to teacher salary, and you'll find where the largesse of education spending is really going.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:16 | 3261832 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Teaching pays, asshole. Case in point ... Timothy Bowman. High school teacher in Illinois. Look 'im up. Tell me teaching doesn't pay. Asshole.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:34 | 3262156 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

this one? http://www.ratemyteachers.com/tim-bowen/1645645-t

easiness, helpfulness and clairty...doesn't matter if it's right or wrong i guess

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 06:26 | 3262540 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

No, this one:

http://chicagolampoon.blogspot.com/2010/08/chicago-has-public-school-tea...

(Misspelled the name - it's Bouman.)

$632,000 per year. Just one of many. In Chicago. Which is just one of many. In Illinois. Which is just one of many in the U.S.

We are on track in the United States to pay more money to 20 million public sector retirees – at an average pension of $65,000 we will pay these retirees $1.3 trillion per year, than we will be paying in social security to 80 million private sector retirees – at an average social security benefit of $15,000 per year that will cost less, about $1.2 trillion per year. Providing a level of retirement security to government workers that only the wealthiest 1% can enjoy in the private sector is not “protecting the middle class,” it is economic enslavement by government unions over the taxpayer.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:16 | 3261513 No More Bubbles
No More Bubbles's picture

This article was GARBAGE!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:17 | 3261517 PMakoi
PMakoi's picture

Take care of your health.  Buy some good land with good water near a nice smaller community.  Get to know the locals while you're still visiting.  Build a retirement home there.  Stock it with the tools you need to be self sufficient.  Have a marketable skill.  Grow what you can.  Trade goods and services.  Don't count on Social Security.  Don't count on the Government at all.  If the market, and your investments within it, and the firms/people you've trusted it to, hold together long enough, you'll be okay.  If you've got a barn too, stock non-perishable commodities.  If you've got the dough to spare, income real estate in the community where you want to retire.  Maybe rent to firefighters and school superintendants... 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:39 | 3261563 steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

^PMakoi nails it.  Elsewhere on ZH we learn that the Fed is about to enjoy negative income.  To fix that it needs more assets that pay more than its interest on excess reserves payments.  Does this ring a bell?  How could the Fed continue to feed the QE beast without generating more excess reserves it has to pay interest on?  My guess is that the Fed needs to purchase (with money it creates) about a trillion in new USTs in order to remain solvent - more raw emissions of money and frankly the price of damned near everything is going to go up, way up.  So straight out saving is a losing approach - your money will never be worth more than it is today.  If you wish to invest, get your money out of U.S. dollars and into anything that is unlikely to decline in value - like farmland.  But you'd better hurry - land prices are skyrocketing.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:31 | 3262151 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

hey, that's a fix...the Fed can pay down the yield curve til it's negative and the debt will just go away! push it down to -10% and the debt has gone in 7 years!!!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:53 | 3261605 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

can't rent to FF and SS because they are the ones doing what you are describing. They are the only ones in these cracker communities outside big cities that make any kind of $. They work few hours and are puttering around in their workshops the rest of the week after working 20 hrs a week. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 22:00 | 3261923 respect the cock
respect the cock's picture

Most (line) firemen work about 50-60 hours per week.  Don't get too carried away.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:19 | 3261524 espirit
espirit's picture

You are what you eat, or what you can get to eat.

I'd rather be living large on a farm.

http://news.yahoo.com/meat-inspector-layoffs-misguided-way-cut-budget-lawmaker-223841244.html

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:29 | 3261542 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I'm going to college to find a few fires to lay to rest. You can keep the pension.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:31 | 3261547 Seorse Gorog fr...
Seorse Gorog from that Quantum Entanglement Fund. alright_.-'s picture

If being an oldster is anything like this...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUQXkgHM48

 

...then sign me up!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:06 | 3261637 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

exactly.

all that BS about pigs and fire dept, risking their lives.

Average cab driver risk 10 times more.

 

I'll laugh when all this fat pig retirement goes fucked with municipal bankruptcies.  

I do get pig's charities calling some time - I tell them to go fuck themselves, or ask if gestapo ran out of cash, why not sell some more guns to Joaquin Guzman.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:38 | 3261560 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Quick! Everyone start maxing out your tax shelters! I too can has bonds in my 401?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:12 | 3261652 Bear
Bear's picture

I'm selling bonds in my IRA

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:40 | 3261571 Seychelles
Seychelles's picture

Absolutely no way these retired government employees have earned that kind of retirement pay. Retired self-employed citizens even with considerable savings are getting squeezed badly with only SS and ZIRP.  I am 68, have no debt, 2M in laddered T-bills in personal posttax savings and get about 1350 per month in SS payments..so live frugally to minimize loss of savings.  Those who have allowed themselves to be suckered into risk-on parking places for their savings (junk bonds, stock market) are going to find out one of these days that the yield they are getting doesn't begin to compensate them for the REAL risk they are taking.  What will they do at 60+ after losing a large percentage of their principal, wait 20 years for the markets to recover?  Madness. Are the J6Ps going to tolerate forever these civil service and military retirees living high on the hog with other peoples' tax dollars?  How can these pension plans be earning their actuarially needed 8% year after year?  Widespread defaults on pension contracts may be the kindling that gets a social bonfire roaring.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:29 | 3262144 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

i think you should be spending 100,000 a year, spartacus

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:42 | 3261576 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

So in the future, will our bio-metric implants be able to tell us how many credits we have in our social security account?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:45 | 3261584 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The people in my area who are really, really rich are the government workers.  They were able to spend every penny of their income on entertainment, cars, vacations etc.  In retirement they are pulling in $140K+ each on average.  Some, much more.  Our neighbors pull in $420K between the two of them.  They also get premium health care.  Their kids got big scholarships because their net worth was low.  It's just impossible for someone in the private sector to get to this level of wealth.  My wife and I struggle to save and put our kids through school.  We pretty much live like paupers.  My income isn't bad, either.  We own two small apartments in which I have poured sweat equity.  It has been nothing but work and it's pretty disheartening to see the largess poured on government workers.  If you don't believe it pay a visit to Washington DC area.  The wealth there is startling.

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:53 | 3261606 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

And I was raised in the years of the saying "if you cant get a real job you can always work for the gov." Back a few short generations ago the gov job paid shit and had a stigma attached. WTF happened? I know a few gov workers and all i can say is I sure as hell wont trust them in the coming foxhole we all be living in.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:23 | 3261695 optimator
optimator's picture

Those were the years we asked, "Does your Father work?"  The answer was, "NO....he's employed by the Government".

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:44 | 3261754 Seychelles
Seychelles's picture

But most of these folks have zip if/when the pension fund dries up.  It's all current cash flow, no backup savings.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:50 | 3261600 Rentier
Rentier's picture

nice get a 80k to 100k pension with only a 3-6 month fire fighting certification.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 23:42 | 3261613 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

median house price = $178,900 from here:

http://www.realtor.org/news-releases/2012/10/fourth-quarter-metro-area-h...

thirty year mortgage rate = 3% from here:

http://www.erate.com/current-mortgage-rates-30-year-fixed-mortgage-rates...

median household income = $50,054 from p7 (last para middle column) here:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p60-243.pdf

median house price is 3.6 times income and costs c. $8,900 p.a. @ 3% for thirty years, $10,200 @4%, $11,500 @ 5% and $12,800 @6%

studies sugges that most people expect to live off 80% of their pre-retirement living standard and most will live 20 years in retirement; from here:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/03/pf/expert/expert.moneymag/index.htm

if you live 20 years, you can take 5% fixed of your retirement capital and assume that any interest you earn saving it up and using it covers inflation and emergencies. this is the price of the fed supporting banks at peoples expense...there is no real (after inflation) return

the capital you need on retirement with zero real returns = 80% of $50,054 final salary, for 20 years until death = c. $800,000. 

if you put this in the same time period of house mortgage of 30 years, you need to save c. $26,545 per annum for thirty years.

planning for a retirement based on 80% of current living standards is a joke. the pension pot required is 4.5 times the value of the median house price. it also requires (over a thirty year period) for you to save a little over half your salary in order to retire.

this is the cost of qe and bank bail-outs for the rest of the economy. remember that banks charge you for the privilege of obtaining a loan, on top of the interest rate and munis and states charge you for the privilege of having a road (then you have utility bills, groceries, holidays and gas guzzling SUV's, beer etc).

why are you paying taxes to make you poor by feeding, healthing and housing crack addicts and the "poor" who are better off than you are with all the benefits that are farmed out?

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:55 | 3261614 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

When these markets collapse, pensions are fucked. 

 

Pensions are ponzi schemes - the creators have all been paid out, so fuck the rest who are left hanging.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:11 | 3261651 trollin4sukrz
trollin4sukrz's picture

Yes indeed.. was @ the library recently, started up a covers with a retired state worker from alaska that had a huge bitch of having his pension axed in half. One whack.. half- up in smoke.. his OLD lady said, "we dont know what we are going to do." Fvkin makes me feel lucky i live in a shit house with low payments and dont depend on any retirement whatsoveah, as I know the 35 years of paying into SSI will be gone about the time I want/need/expect it..Wish the bastard thieving gov would give me that money back. No interest even.. just cut me a check and we will call it good?.. dreamon/

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:10 | 3261647 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

The next Civil War

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:15 | 3261664 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture

notice how the Republicans take obscene, extra juicy wages and Healthcare and other perks and bennies-then a wet dream retirement package fit for a king-yet they want to cut Medicare-Talk about the rich being on welfare

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