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The 'Kyle Bass' Trade And How The Penny Cost Taxpayers $436mm

Tyler Durden's picture





 

It has been a few years since Kyle Bass suggested the 'nickel trade' and the idea remains as profitable for those with large wheel-barrows now as it ever was. As Bloomberg notes, the penny currently costs almost 2 cents to make and the nickel more than 10 cents - more than double the cost from 2006. In those seven years, the US taxpayer has lost a stunning $436 million thanks to the inflationary devaluation of the USD relative to the metals involved, and while a former Arizona congressman (Jim Kolbe) tried to sponsor a bill to abolish the penny (to save the cost of minting), President Obama noted that "given all the big issues, we're not able to get to it," even as the Canadian Mint just stopped distributing pennies - saving $11mm annually. It seems, while the production process may have costs, the 100% markup for pennies and nickels remains an intriguing disconnect.

 

 

 

 

Charts: Bloomberg

 


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Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:39 | Link to Comment Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

I have huge jars full of old nickels, dimes, & quaters.

Not nearly as much as Mr. Bass, but good for me.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment strannick
strannick's picture

So you can buy 2 cents worth of copper (pre- 1996 in Canada) for a penny?

Good deal.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Coin melt values, see: http://www.coinflation.com/

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:55 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

A little copper can be useful in a crunch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosively_formed_penetrator

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Nice.  If I may add, I just read that Thermite is a 50/50 mix of iron (III) oxide (aka rust) and powdered aluminum.  You can light it with a July 4th sparkler.  Add a little magnesium and ratchet up the fun.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:18 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Here is another reason for owning physical copper...

http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:45 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

Federal Reserve:  Mr. Bass. Why do you want $1 million in nickels ?

Mr. Bass: I just like nickels

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I like to stockpile copper that is wrapped around lead stuck in a brass case filled with black powder.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:50 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

Does Mrs. H know you look at this stuff on the internet?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:18 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

hold on now, i'm in baltimore and for a mere 587 mill. we can find out for sure about this data if it is accurate.....

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Hedgeless have your potatoes in yet ?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:32 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Mrs. Horseman has been digging around out there quite a bit, but I am not sure what she has planted for this go 'round.  Here is last night's carrot soup and garden salad with real ginger dressing.  I do know that to say we are long lettuce at this time is an understatement.

 

Here is one of the little horsemen transfering some black gold from the Chateau du Poulet to Compost Pile 3-A, Block 12, Sublevel 2.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

cool, hard to get my little 1100-tactical-,410's going but they get better as they get older. I have a feeling bugs will be bad this year , no winter to speak of in the hill country this year. I like NEEM OIL do you have a secret recipe that might be a little easier on the fiatscos?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:17 | Link to Comment MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

How droll.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

A little copper can be useful in a crunch.

So can a copper jacket....

FORWARD SOVIET!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

The penny was discontinued in Canada because it cost ~ $1 Trillion Zimbabwean Dollars to produce.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Since you posted that, the cost has risen to $2 Trillion Zimbabwean Dollars.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Since you posted that the cost has risen to 200 Quadrillion Zimbabwe dollars, and the Zimbabwean stock market indices increased 1000 X.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Since you posted that, a 1000-ton meteor has crashed into Zimbabwe and turned it into one giant copper-filled crater.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:00 | Link to Comment Whatta
Whatta's picture

Since you posted that Obama has invaded Zimbabwe, droned 1000 kids, opened a US SEAL base and is looking for "terrorists".

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

Very good example of the effects of the loss of value of the Dollar. Very good deal for someone.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:51 | Link to Comment Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

Retailers up here are actually ceasing operations using pennies.  Rounding off to the nearest nickel.  I'm dead serious.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:07 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Let me guess. They are rounding up, not down.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 06:19 | Link to Comment Albertarocks
Albertarocks's picture

Nope.  They're being fair about it and rounding to the nearest.  If it's lower, the retailer takes the big hit.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment malusDiaz
malusDiaz's picture

it took 3 weeks to get 100$ in pennies delivered... 

 

The bank was very confused when I wanted several hundred dollars in Nickels, dimes, and quarters... almost like I wanted to rob them of their metal!

 

Muahahhaha they only have zinc and copper in their vaults...

 

100$ per person in the USA is how much incirculation small change is out there... get it while you still can. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:49 | Link to Comment Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

With regards to pennies only the pre 1982's are worth it.

And even then, probably less the 5% of pennies in circulation are pre 1982.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

zzaktly.
should have ordered nothing but nickels.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:09 | Link to Comment scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

It must have been luck then when I separated $10 dollars worth of pennies (20 rolls) and found on average that 24.9% were pre 1982... I like to think of them as 1/2 nickles as they're worth 2.45 cents each or so I thought at  the time I did this which was a while ago.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:55 | Link to Comment msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

I have my kids sort through them for me.  The post 82 and 64 (not much there of course) stuff goes in their piggy banks, the good stuff and nickles go in mine. 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:25 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

ive been getting 12- 15 82s and prior per roll...also pulled a 1912 s wheaty....25.00 minimum..

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Nickels actually have a nickel's worth of metal. A copper penny has over two cents of copper. A zinc penny has about a half cent of metal.

This web site has the melt value for US coins.
http://www.coinflation.com/

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

I'd keep the nickels but cash in the dimes and quarters to buy silver eagles.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:01 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

O/T but this will open your eyes to the truth!

The UCC Connection, by Howard Freeman

If that intrigued you read this too.

BEAT THE LAW HOW TO GET DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY

No wonder they  want the guns.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:02 | Link to Comment LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Only in this damn country can people think that using Dollar denominations (a false weight and measure) that creates an illision of "to expensive to continue" is not worth the resources it extracts.  Whereas in reality worthless paper extracts real resources because ingnorat sluts have confidence in the false weight and measure. THANKS PUBLIC SCHOOLS!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:40 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

The rumors, and just rumors, I have heard is that early in 2013 the Mint will stop making the pennies and nickels here.  While it *my* not be worthwhile to sort pennies for the copper ones (1981 and before), it is easy to just throw nicklels into the jug...  Or just go to the banks and get $100 worth whenever you have the inclination.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment malusDiaz
malusDiaz's picture

it will be a 3 week wait for 100$ in pennies.

 

even the new pennies are worth more then their melt value...

 

100$ per person buying small change (1c, 5c, 10c, 25c) and all the change will disapear....

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

They plan to ditch the penny, debase the nickel and eliminate the dollar bill for the dollar coin.  Long term, they want to eliminate cash altogether.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment azengrcat
azengrcat's picture

My dad has a metric_F_ton of copper pennies.  May be the original "copper bug".

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

What the fuck is a metric ton. ?

I was brought up on metric and imperial, side by side.

Never once heard that abortion of a phrase.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

metric buttload > metric ton > standard buttload

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 21:37 | Link to Comment PaJoad
PaJoad's picture

MANY a beer has been sacrificed among our humble brain trust proving beyond a shadow of doubt that a shit-load is the largest quantity known to man. In case you're wondering....

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 01:41 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Yep, but I can absolutely assure you that a shit-load is less than half of what you can shake a big stick at.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment fuu
Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

A metric tonne (or just "tonne") is 1000 kg (approx 2200 lbs).

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

2205lbs .actually.

Its like saying one Guinnea equal one  rouble.

No wonder were all fucked.Fiat for weghts and measures.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment koaj
koaj's picture

silver is getting cheaper by the day, while WTI and gas is going up. makes sense. come to $26 Ag and i will buy lots of you

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

coin dealers by me are asking $6 above spot and he said he'll keep charging $36 for the rest of the year. I said "what if it gets in the $20s"-he mumbled something and hung up

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

$4.99 9/10 per gallon
???

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:49 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

fucking Kernan was talking about record gas prices. Instead of recognizing it for what it is--inflation--he saw the deflationary effects of the high price, declaring that the Fed would need to keep the rates low because of it. MIT degree or not, that is just dumb god damned logic.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:06 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

You mean all those wars over the price of gas was for nothin? Looks like we lost another undeclared war.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:43 | Link to Comment fnordfnordfnord
fnordfnordfnord's picture

Maybe Kyle Bass is a fan of Hank & John Green of vice versa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77C47XYm_3c

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

Fuck this 90 pt drop,  You wanna see a market hissy fit, or should I say algo fit,  raise interest rates a quarter point

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Glass Seagull
Glass Seagull's picture

 

 

Fewer coins, more food scrip.

 

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Cursive
Cursive's picture

Save the Penny!  Dump BernanQE!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding's picture

This just in from Bud Fox..."Blue Horseshoe loves Coinstar"

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:00 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Edit made it funnier.  +1

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Nickels are a great arbitrage play. It's not like you're making any money in your savings account, so you may as well hold some of that in nickels. They have the added bonus of being extremely hard to steal, as they weigh a ton.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:07 | Link to Comment msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

Fill a sock with them and you have security too.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:49 | Link to Comment maskone909
maskone909's picture

lol i actually thought about penny hoarding. the only prob is that it costs more in gas to transport them then the profit margin togain. jusr imagine 10k in profit would require almost 700,000 pennies at a 1.5cent conversion

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

the value will be realized when they pull the pennies and nickles out of circulation, than they will sell like the 64's, for their metal..

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

People think I oppose everything Obama favors, but they are wrong.  I stand with the president on getting rid of the penny and having a college football playoff.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment besnook
besnook's picture

time to make paper pennies.

 

cash will be obsolete as soon as they figure out how to buy and sell illegal drugs, weapons and other criminal goods and services with plastic. wells fargo is working on that.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

isn't that the reason Goldman Sachs created BitCoin?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:41 | Link to Comment espirit
espirit's picture

And all this this time, I thought HSBC had cornered the market on profit from illegal substances.

Oh well, guess it's all fair game now.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

I guess the gov is penny foolish, pound foolish.

 

So what kind of costs could reasonably be expected for an investor one day selling copper pennies for the 2c in metal? Would be interesting to know at what volumes it becomes worth it.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:53 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

As my father would say, "don't take any wooden nickels".

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Dealer
Dealer's picture

I love Kyle Bass.  I'd suck his dick but I'm afraid I'd be labeled a cocksucker for life.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

You're going to regret writing that when you sober up, you know?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Change your oil ONCE, and they don't think you're a mechanic.

Wear a tuxedo ONCE, and they don't think you're a millionaire.

But suck just ONE cock..

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment wcvarones
wcvarones's picture

There's a lot of minting costs in those figures.

The actual metal value is only 5.1 cents in a nickel, and half a cent in a penny:

 

http://www.coinflation.com/

Nickels have been worth more than 7 cents in the last few years, but declined with the recent commodity pullback.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:11 | Link to Comment Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Don't be ridiculous.

They should be FORCED to continue minting pennies (and for that matter they should be the 100% copper they once were).

The enemy here is not "the penny", not "the cost" nor the goal "saving taxpayers money".  The enemy is CURRENCY DEBASEMENT and the penny should be maintained as a reminder that the real villains are GOVERNMENTS.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment rotagen
rotagen's picture

Lets get on topic, you don't need a crystal ball to see what's going down.

 

And theres only one solution.

 

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39053.html

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:14 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"...In those seven years, the US taxpayer has lost a stunning $436 million thanks to the inflationary devaluation of the USD relative to the metals involved..."

talk about majoring in the minors and re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic, this farticle rises to imbecility....removing the penny is pure fraud.....the same with a nickel.....how many items jump by more than 5% in price because of that stupid move? not everything which loses money should be ended, including the post office.....there truly are some services which should be maintained at a loss....

with 1.5 trillion usd deficits, whining about an average 60 million usd loss per year is the biggest sanctimonious horse shit i have heard in a long time....

if you want to save real money, slash and burn the cia, defense, debt, and bureaucrats.....that would be savings you could crow about....in the mean time, we will have to listen to this chicken shit about the cost of the penny and the post office.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:17 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

<golf clap>

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:30 | Link to Comment smartstrike
smartstrike's picture

...that was just a plug for Kyle Bass to keep his name in the limelight.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:20 | Link to Comment hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Nope, that was a "Tyler Troll"... wasting my time....  lol

If you want to read what Bass is saying these days go to his blog

http://kylebassblog.blogspot.ca/

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

I think that the US should start minting SUB PENNY coins!

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

It is unfortunate that copper, zinc, and nickel have gone up in price. 

What we need is for everybody to wear WIN buttons.  (for "Whip Inflation Now") 

Those buttons bring prices down, which is what causes inflation.  This was one of the good ideas that Gerald Ford (American President and frequent star on Saturday Night Live)  came up with.  It worked in the 70's, and helped get him re-elected.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

I see what you did there.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Honey Badger
Honey Badger's picture

"In those seven years, the US taxpayer has lost a stunning $436 million ..."

To put that into context, the Fed prints $2.79 billion every DAY.   

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Weyland_Yutani
Weyland_Yutani's picture

I guess the expression "worth every penny" is void?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment Fredo Corleone
Fredo Corleone's picture

Weyland-Yutani.

"Building Better Worlds"

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment Monedas
Monedas's picture

Many of the world's government mint coins are sold at a loss .... paper markets are a rip off .... crocked government casino with bottomless pockets .... even Monedas could make money with those advantages .... while mint coins are heavily subsidized .... moral .... buy phizz govmint coins .... it's a no brainer !    While they are auditing US gold .... let's see a "real" audit of the US and Canadian mints .... nevah gonna happen !       Monedas     1929     Comedy Jihad World Tour    Fatwas issued while you wait !

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:24 | Link to Comment Pancho Villa
Pancho Villa's picture

I'm afraid that the penny and the nickel are doomed. But we don't really need them. In the 1960's, a penny had at least as much purchasing power as the dime does now. For example, four pennies would buy a first class stamp and 25 pennies would buy a gallon of gas. Now, four dimes will get you a first class stamp and 25 dimes will NOT get you a gallon of gas.

We don't need pennies and nickels and whenever the melt value of a coin becomes significantly higher than its face value, people start hanging onto them and they cease to circulate.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:35 | Link to Comment MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

When I was a kid, a nickle would buy a pack of gum (five sticks of Juicy Fruit [probably real sugar]. Or was it ten sticks?). Ten cents bought a large(ish) candy bar. Four ounces? Six? Eight even? Can't recall. This was 1960 +- or thereabouts. Twenty-five or fifty cents was some real money for a kid back then.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture

Some of the critics of Bass' "nickel trade" crack me up.

They often cite how it is illegal to melt down, or otherwise destroy, coins...so he'll never be able to truly benefit from it...

The way I see it, he really can't lose on it...at least if you consider the two extreme outcomes of all of "this."

If (when?) we eventually experience a legit currency crisis, and we pretty much go SHTF, no one is going to give a damn about laws like that...and the nickels will hold their value to at least some degree because of the raw materials...assuming of course he/his clients have physical possession of them...

...and if we ever let true deflation ever take hold (like we should have done in '08), the nickels will go up in value as a currency.

Either way, he has succeeded in at least preserving some of the wealth of his clients - and if you listen to his various speeches, etc., that's what he's really trying to do.  He's not necessary trying to make a killing on each and every "bet" he places.

I THINK the only way he could "lose" on this bet is if we see a steady, controlled "inflation" - but IMHO, that's less likely to happen than either of the two "extreme" outcomes.  Shit, Japan has been trying to do inflate their way out of their debt problems for 20 years...and all they're done is add more debt....

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:38 | Link to Comment Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

by the way Mr. Blaine,

Yes...it is currently illegal to "melt" coin.   But if you did, there's not a recycler in the US that's going to question where you big block of copper came from.   Though, with nickels at 75% copper, they may want to assay it first....and you won't be able to melt this on your kitchen stove.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture

Yeah...it may not be "easy" to get to make that material "usable"...but at least he/his clients will "have" it.

The only commodities I own are in the form of thousands of small pieces of lead...most of which are covered by a thin copper "jacket."

I figure no matter what happens, they'll always be worth something.

 

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:35 | Link to Comment Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

For the fun of it, I've purchased a few hundred pounds of pennies from "sorters" like pennybullion.com.   They pull the pre-1982 pennies.  There are other sorters on ebay.

Out of rebellion, I throw every other penny I get into the trash, or into the street to show others how worthless it is, and to force the US Treasury to spend a few cents to remake and redistribute replacement pennies.

Please join me.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 19:46 | Link to Comment Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

You should cut off your nose to spite your face? Nah, keep the '82 and older pennies and buy nickels with the newer ones. I thought everyone knew that.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:31 | Link to Comment SKY85hawk
SKY85hawk's picture

What's with pre-1982 pennies?

 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:10 | Link to Comment Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

Predebasement or before the debasement, 1982 was the last year pennies were 90 percent copper, 10 percent zinc. 1983 was the first year pennies are 90 percent zinc, 10 percent copper.

Oh yeah, PROSECUTE THE WAR CRIMINALS.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 18:47 | Link to Comment Herdee
Herdee's picture

Maybe the U.S. Government should get their penny and nickel and the rest of the coinage made in China in order to save money (they let Corporations destroy America this way).Or even better,sell the U.S. Mint to China.I was reading today that the Chinese have already bought enough oil and gas assets worldwide that the production from the assets is more than Saudi's now.Seems like everybody is selling out to them.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:14 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

China is converting all the $US they've gotten making crap for us into HARD ASSETS, knowing damn well that the value of the dollar is tanking.  China is converting dollars into equity stakes in Australian and South American mines, African farmland and energy sources all over the world.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:00 | Link to Comment robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

My small grocery store stopped using pennies except in the price of goods. If you buy a $1.99 item and hand them a twoonie, you get no change. It's ridiculus.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 20:59 | Link to Comment Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

Keep harping on it, you dipshit.  If you keep calling the USGov stupid long enough, they're finally going to cave and start making our money like those toxic, smelly slugs that come out of Europe.  Ever jangle a handful of Euro fractional coins compared with a handful of US coins?  Ever get a whif of Euro coins?  As a taxpayer, I'm happy to have some of my tax money go to making sure our coinage isn't skanky and slug-like.

 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 00:12 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Pennies no longer made from coper because the metal value is higher and now even the 'cheaper metal version is worth more for its metal value - so time to make a 'cheaper' coin AGAIN.

Doesn't this count as 'debasing' coinage? - not as bad as removving all the silver from coinage in '64 but still a debasement.  

And wasn't debasement a capital offense in th eoriginal Constitution?

 

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