Gold And Silver Are 'Not' Selling Off (Yet)

Tyler Durden's picture


It's that time of day. Commodities exchanges are opening. And yet, today has a different feel to it. For some strange indiscernible reason, the incessant offer on gold and silver that appears every morning for most of the recent weeks has yet to appear. Did the central bankers get busted? Are too many people aware of the manipulation? Did a 3% drop in China spook them back at the margin? Who knows - its early yet...



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Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:01 | 3262896 Martdin
Martdin's picture

Out for trouble, are we?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:04 | 3262923 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Dark side always comes, when least expected

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:11 | 3262964 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black." - Demotivationals

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:24 | 3263024 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

SSSHHHHH, dont jinx it!

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:45 | 3263101 flacon
flacon's picture

Here is Peter Schiff's take on it:


Gold Pullback Explained

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:09 | 3263191 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Schiff is right, for more reasons than he can think of :).

Here, in the EU, if you want to buy physical you pay VAT on all purchases. However, at the local joint where I get physical the price is exactly the same as 2 weeks ago! LOL! 60.88$/gram.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:10 | 3263194 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Funny that anyone would think this is 'somebody' out there who wants to manipulate the system when the system is highly governed by judicial bodies such as FINRA, the SEC, and the Fed.

Maybe it isn't manipulation.  Maybe investors have had enough of holding onto an investment that doesn't pay dividends and has no growth.

Investing in gold is like putting rocks in your pants and then going for a swim.  Why would you do that?  I don't know.

In fact, it takes money out of good investments and puts them into bad investments - that can hurt finance.  Really, we may want to outlaw owning gold due to the fact that owning gold hurts the economy.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:15 | 3263217 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Forget the sarcasm tag?

"Highly governed by judicial bodies ....."

That's what gave this away as a joke.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:22 | 3263255 BigJim
BigJim's picture

You guys are all to US-centric. Have a look at the 'price' of gold in €, or Yen, or £.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:28 | 3263289 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Gold centric, we will look at the price of $, E, yen in gold. Golds value is constant.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:24 | 3263261 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

It isn't a joke, it is a fact.  The SEC and FINRA are the highest regulated bodies in America, more highly regulated than the medical industry, and if there was the blatant manipulation all of you assume there is, these bodies would have already put an end to it, like they did with Bernie Madoff and the LTMC scandal.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:27 | 3263283 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Contract expiration Monday, almost there so the manipulation slows.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:46 | 3263364 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Dear Dr. Krugman,

What about Jon Corzine?

Madoff is a guppy compared to that Great White Shark eating farmers and retirees with the help of J.P. Morgan Chase.


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:51 | 3263404 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

If the Hon. Jon Corzine had done anything wrong, then how did Congress find no fault of him?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:54 | 3263416 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Because they are all so honorable I suppose.

(I see your sarcasm, and I raise)

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:48 | 3263932 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

Is this guy really this fucking stupid?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:54 | 3263963 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

No this is not stupidity, this is Dr. Paul Krugman. Show some respect!

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 14:01 | 3263997 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

Doh, my mistake! Mr. Platinum Coin, please continue how the regulators are going to save us all....

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:52 | 3263956 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Hilarious. Have been laughing tears.

Hope to read more comments from you, Paul. ;)


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:59 | 3263987 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

the jaded sarc troll s on this site are a dangerous group as for the few here  that "get it" are outnumbered by 50 genuinly smart people who are just starting to "get it" but read the comments as genuine and decide to pop another blue pill back in their mouth.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 12:33 | 3263620 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"The SEC and FINRA are the highest regulated bodies in America"

LOL.  Regulation?  How did Basel II work out?

Regulation is there to be gamed.  I know.  I've done it.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:21 | 3263249 RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

I like this. This is amusing.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:42 | 3263351 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Dear Dr. Krugman,

I have some gold for your pants pockets, as long as you go for a swim over the Marianas Trench.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 12:23 | 3263584 BigJim
BigJim's picture

What's wrong with tungsten? The fish will never know the difference.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 19:40 | 3265261 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

I agree. Although it is not nice to call a PhD. you don't personally know a fish.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 12:31 | 3263613 The Continental
The Continental's picture

Are those rocks in your pants or are you happy to see me?

Obviously, you keep your rocks in your head.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:21 | 3263824 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

Sorry Partner, we dont trust any American agency to govern anything but the best interests of the courrpt banking cartel!

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 14:19 | 3263888 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

My dear man, you're (conveniently) overlooking a small thing... called Facts and Preponderance of Evidence that is consistent with manipulation and counter to your, er, 'thesis'.

I don't know how much experience you have with professional trading, but Mr. Spock tells me that if a Fund Manager wanted to reduce his PM exposure, he would not "dump" his PM holdings.  Especially 20 minutes before the trading starts.  That requires some serious "string pulling" on the inside.  Rather, he'd sell a bit at a time, to prevent excessive price dips and to maximize his income.  He'd also vary the time of day, to cover his trail, lest someone see a pattern and "front run" him.  Even so, the typical exposure to real (primary) wealth in PMs in a mutual fund is miniscule, compared to its galactic exposure to fiat (tertiary) wealth.  Funds managers selling off are therefore not the Usual Suspects (with Motive, Means and Opportunity) that we are looking for in this CSI episode.  Last night's ZG article covers this nicely.

My dear man, all these facts are so obvious and blatant, that if you cannot or will not deal with them, then (a) any rational and objective person will question your agenda, (b) the Nobel Committee should ask you to give back your "Swedish Central Banker Prize" (Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel), and (c) your Alma Mater should take back your degrees.  It is that obvious and blatant.  Hold it... what am I saying... given how zealously you are running interference for the network of CB's, they will probably award you with a second prize.  ;-)

Of course, you could then go for a 3rd "Central bank prize" (Sveriges Riksbank Prize), by providing Starfleet with a thesis on how the Clingon and Vulcan integration into the New Galactic Order aka The Federation of Planets (the grown-up version of the earth's NWO) has increased the GDP (Galactic Debt Product) via its FRB (Fractional Reserve Banking), and created billions of trillions of New FRN's (New Federation Reserve Notes) in the Galaxy.  Hint:  The New FRNs are "sound as a pound", as they are anchored in a basket of real assets:  Dilithium Crystals (warp-drive energy source) and Latinum (precious metal).  The New BIS (Bank of Interstellar Settlement), located on planet Yerushalayim, handles all settlements of Federation and NGO currencies.  One Bank to rule them all, so to speak.

Let's chat and co-author:  My knowledge, and your central bank connections and branding expertise.  Kirk out.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 14:12 | 3264015 knukles
knukles's picture

Outlaw it?
As in dictatorial powers?

I hereby suggest that you, sir, should be imprisoned in a gulag, far, far away as a risk to the economy and mankind.

What in God's name do you think gives you the right to decree upon others that in which they may or may not invest?

You are an atheistic, statist, fascist, sir.
By that very statement, a self-confessed danger to the freedoms of mankind.


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 17:28 | 3264852 thorgodofthunder
thorgodofthunder's picture

Absolutely correct.  The irony is that it doesn't really matter to 99% of the morons who haunt this forum because those fools have only invested their life savings, ie between $5000-$10000 in gold so they're all broke anyway.  Like I've been telling people since the stupid run up, the modern e-economy of the world has no use for rocks when we can wire billions anywhere on earth in seconds. 

As jewellery I think gold is worth about $1100 per oz they say.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:27 | 3263280 auric1234
auric1234's picture

You have it wrong. Investment gold is exempted from VAT in all the EU since Y2K. You still pay VAT when buying silver though.


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:31 | 3263306 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Not around here. You pay VAT on all gold purchases, except when acquired as a financial investment. So if you want to buy bars from a jewler, or a pawn shop, you will pay VAT. How many banks in the EU sell physical gold? Can you name one? Only banks will sell VAT free gold in the EU. And they don`t.

If you are talking about paper gold I guess you can`t tax the paper of bankers :)

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:40 | 3263344 auric1234
auric1234's picture

No, it's European Comission mandate. It applies to all of the EU, including UK.

And yes I mean gold, not paper.


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:59 | 3263461 Acet
Acet's picture

As a buyer of physical gold (even though its hydrophilic qualities mean I keep loosing it in unfortunate boating accidents) I can confirm this: no VAT on Gold coins or Gold bars for investment.

Furthermore, at least in the UK there is no Capital Gains Tax on Gold as long as its in the form of Coins which are legal tender in the UK (the most common are Soveriegns and Britannias). Different countries have different rules when it comes to Capital Gains Tax on Gold.

You only pay VAT on Gold if you plan on making jewelery with it (note that the stated reason why coin sellers are forced to report purchases above a certain value is exactly to catch jewelery makers that are trying not to pay VAT).

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:51 | 3263402 Stuntgirl
Stuntgirl's picture

Irelevant, I'm in the EU and I'm buying bullion from regular stores (coins and bars) VAT free.

Investment grade gold is defined as 99.5% purity or higher, so in theory if you buy a 900 purity coin you'd have to pay VAT, but shops still offer it VAT free.

I AM seeing some shops misinform their clients, and add a "VAT" to their product which is just a premium they keep themselves.

VAT is always applicable on silver, except some countries have reduced VAT for silver coins. In those countries, andorra silver coinbars and cook island coinbars (1Kilo "coins") are popular.

If you are paying more than 5% over spot for gold, do a little web vendor research in Europe. Esp German sellers. (avoid swiss).

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 11:50 | 3263401 Acet
Acet's picture

Only for Silver.

There is no VAT for Gold.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 13:05 | 3263758 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Only for 'industrial' silver (bars), not for coins and not for so called coin bars.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 19:09 | 3265146 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

HAHAHAHA - are you fucking serious, or do you even know where Europe is (hint: not Jupiter)?

If there's something that characterizes gold (bullion) market in Europe (Earth) is that it pays no taxes (as in zero, nada, 0% VAT), as opposed to silver, btw, which pays regular VAT, at around 20+% (unless it's actual currency, such as Andorra coinbars, which pays 7% VAT).

Go troll elsewhere.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:16 | 3262975 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

The buying pressure at these levels is ENORMOUS, strong longs are calm and unwaivering in their commitment. Just about everyone including me is putting an order in today and if they force the manipulation any more they will force a seperation of the paper and physical price.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:20 | 3263002 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

until the longs are out of dry powder

the question for printers is how to keep the dry powder out of the control of the longs

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:31 | 3263037 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

except 'longs' & 'shorts' are just paper market words. somewhere in India some woman will have a gold chain put on her as a store of wealth. in some safe in hong kong someone is craving another bar. in some basement of some house in idaho a stacker is, well, stacking. and while vlad wrestles with siberian tigers, his finance ministers are bringing bullion back to mother russia by the traincar. 


let the printers flood.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:42 | 3263089 fuu
fuu's picture

No margins no cry.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:50 | 3263117 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

how right you are... That was easy, wan'nt it?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:51 | 3263118 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:22 | 3263013 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

came on! take silver to 10 euro! i want to buy a monsterbox for 5.000!

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:34 | 3263034 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture



No longs have exited because they know - 'what is what' and they just strut...and add to stack.


And if anything...(hopefully)...

New inspired souls that have awoken from their slumber join the assault on TPTB and begin their physical PM collection.


I would think its fair to say for us physical hoarders - their are more entering the game - then exiting. And those already in the game...are adding...

Lets get baked and smile.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:21 | 3263003 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I fear ear hair in the rear wheel well.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 12:02 | 3263480 Silver Bully
Silver Bully's picture

'Dark side always comes, when least expected'


Thu, 02/21/2013 - 10:16 | 3262988 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Wake me when the price in fiat drops below $300 and ounce and 12$ and ounce.  This is the dollar cost average on my gold and silver holdings.  Store of value and preservation of purchasing power bitches, nothing more.  One should only be a long term investor only if one expects to stick around for quite a while.

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