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US Drones Have Killed Over 4,700

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The Obama drone program has been shrouded in secrecy, but after the leaking of the 'kill list' white papers, Russia Today notes, many critics are demanding transparency from the administration when it comes to the exact number of causalities. Due to the confidentiality of drone strikes abroad, it has proven difficult to get an accurate figure - until now.

As Wired.com reports, US Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has estimated that 4,700 people have been killed. As of now it is unclear how he obtained that figure, but his 'approving' comments raise questions about the accuracy of these attacks: "Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that, but we're at war, and we've taken out some very senior members of al-Qaida."

Graham did not offer an estimate of how many innocent people the drones have killed. Given the 430 or so strikes known about, this would imply around 10 kills per strike - but judging from the context of his remarks, Wired.com suspects, he's not counting the strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It wouldn’t be the first time that a U.S. senator has offhandedly revealed specific and unacknowledged information about the drones, following Diane Feinstein's 2009 gaffe, but Graham’s disclosure underscores the extraordinary secrecy around the centerpiece of U.S. counterterrorism efforts - a military action in all but name, operated by an agency that need not explain to the public how it carries out the program.

 

Via Russia Today,

Via Wired.com,

The government says you can’t know how many people U.S. drone strikes have killed, because that’s a state secret. But one of the most hawkish members of the U.S. Senate just said the strikes have killed 4,700 people. And his math raises questions.

 

...

 

We’ve killed 4,700,” Graham said, according to an Easley website. “Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that, but we’re at war, and we’ve taken out some very senior members of al-Qaida.” Graham did not evidently offer an estimate of how many innocent people the drones have killed.

 

...

 

The CIA declined to comment about whether Graham revealed classified information. Counting the death toll from drones is a notoriously imprecise, murky business.

 

Graham’s death count would raise questions about the much-vaunted precision of the strikes. Using the Bureau of Investigative Journalism’s count, the U.S. has launched between 416 and 439 drone strikes in Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia since the U.S. first successfully weaponized an MQ-1 Predator a decade ago. If Graham’s right, each strike would have to kill more than 10 people. It’s certainly possible — the 100-pound Hellfire missile carried by the drones is capable of it

 

...

 

Yet Graham’s count is simultaneously low. Judging from the context of his remarks, he’s evidently not counting the U.S. military’s drone strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

...

 

It wouldn’t be the first time that a U.S. senator has offhandedly revealed specific and unacknowledged information about the drones. In 2009, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), the chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee, blabbed that the Pakistani government was hosting CIA drones for strikes on Pakistanis.

 

But Graham’s disclosure underscores the extraordinary secrecy around the centerpiece of U.S. counterterrorism efforts — a military action in all but name, operated by an agency that need not explain to the public how it carries out the program.

 

...

 

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Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:20 | 3265813 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

Are my dronez protected by the 2nd amendment?
From my cold, dead hands...

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:50 | 3265916 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's fucked up that's for sure.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:53 | 3265928 erg
erg's picture

I'd like to think that most here have heard of Boston Dynamic's Big Dog. Even when it was filmed it was old technology. Disturbing.

Relentless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:18 | 3265990 philipat
philipat's picture

So I assume that The US would have no problem if the Mexican Government started using drones to take out Drug Barrons who are hiding over the Border? After all, it's a war. And they will promise to keep the collateral damage to a minimum so that as few San Diego civilians as possible ( Which would still break theire hearts) get taken out?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:21 | 3266010 malikai
malikai's picture

RE erg:

This is what you want, this is what you get..

Hardware, 1990. It was a fucking prophecy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbmqfSo_zq4

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:48 | 3266059 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

And Carl McCoy (The Nomad) from the band the Fields of the Nephilim found the damned thing to boot......

Loved the movie, don't love how we soon will be living it.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:06 | 3266196 fourchan
fourchan's picture

9-11 never forget?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:21 | 3266300 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

In Amerika, drone own you!

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 07:07 | 3266363 Popo
Popo's picture

We are not "at war" by the way. Only Congress can declare war. We have open military operations, but those do not enable the same emergency governmental powers that a declaration of war enables.

In peacetime (yes, PEACETIME) military operations the US has killed 4700 with drones. If the "peacetime" status of these killings concerns anyone in Congress then they need to declare war and stop ignoring the law.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 07:29 | 3266373 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

It's a cunning plan, kill everyone, and then you'll never be attacked...

it used to go by the name of 'murder', and you could be sent to jail for it.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 09:50 | 3266515 CH1
CH1's picture

9-11 never forget?

Military equipment marketers will never forget, that's for sure!

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 22:53 | 3269077 SilverTech
SilverTech's picture

I don't forget 9-11, nor who was really responsible.

There's a question you should always ask when investigating a crime: "Cui bono?"  translated: "To whose benefit?"

Why is it in Latin? Because it's so old and universal.

Who benefited from 9-11? Bush-Cheney, Israel, the "defense" industry.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:02 | 3266152 Major Major Major
Major Major Major's picture

Ed, there's

very angry San Diego-ites.

San Diego-ins.

San Diego-uns.

- San Dieg-ons.

- San Diegans.

San Diegans out

in front of the station.

They want Ron's blood.

http://www.hark.com/clips/gjrldmbrgs-ed-theres-300-very-angry-san-diego-ites

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 10:16 | 3266600 waterwitch
waterwitch's picture

I'm waitin for the Chinese to hack into the drone computers and use them to take out a few banksters. woohoo!

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 22:57 | 3269087 SilverTech
SilverTech's picture

Exactly. The US is developing all this drone technology.

Who has the industrial base to really produce a shitload of cheap drones? The Chinese, of course. Ho-ho-ho

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:34 | 3266306 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"Disturbing."

Gawd! Does it come with a Midas muffler?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:53 | 3265927 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

I think Michael Crichton already wrote that book.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:49 | 3265899 Kitler
Kitler's picture

A teensie bit of overkill?

Leon Panetta states fewer than 50 Al Qaeda left in Afghanistan... but then there's Africa and Venezuela...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/27/leon-panetta-there-may-be_n_627...

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:37 | 3266044 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

While the Fed fights monetary deflation by creating money out of thin air, the MIC fights insurgent deflation by creating bogeymen out of thin air...

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 10:47 | 3266709 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Lindsay Graham-nesty said we have to kill people when we are war?  War with whom?  Why are they letting Muslims in the country and infesting the govt like 1600 Penn?  What a joke.   The enemy is Wash DC.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:21 | 3265816 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

What have we Americans become if not essentially international terrorists? Sad......so very sad.

<We have fallen so far, yet we have so much further to fall.>

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:38 | 3265836 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Amen CD..it makes me sick, especially when I see the degenerated filth people distract themselves with on TV. Our "policy makers" are killing whomever they want and the sheeple are fine with it as long as it doesn't interrupt honey boo boo.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:56 | 3265933 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

terrorists and torturers.

 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:58 | 3265942 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

technically speaking "we're transnational terrorists" since we are a State and are acting in said capacity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaGyPYTKTH4 that's the studio version(which is pretty friggin' good)...let's see here...here's a RIPPIN guitar version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W74CazlVa6o hee haw! "they say they're so accurate even if they miss it's assumed that was the target." what's scary is that there's probably a lot of truth to that...

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:23 | 3266301 Shevva
Shevva's picture

Well at least history will show that the US gave the world celeb's, social media and faceless killing of women and children from 20,000 ft.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:45 | 3266316 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Yes sir Mr. CD, at least we have come so far as to finally admit it IS we that are to blame.:

Monkey see and no do nothing to stop it's own demise.

Makes the game of shat splatting far more intelligent than it seems eh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKvvOFIHs4k

 

 

 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 05:22 | 3266338 new game
new game's picture

i am fearfull of the goes around comes around, and we become the bystanders.

drones>bankster-just a thought...

i know - hypacritical; hey just trying to solve the real problem.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 11:04 | 3266803 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The terrorists are in DC, NYC, London, Brussels and Frankfurt.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:20 | 3265819 The Thunder Child
Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:19 | 3265821 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Though I can't quite put my finger on it, there's just something dishonorable about shooting an unsuspecting someone in the fucking back from 20 thousand feet..........

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:21 | 3265824 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

Even if that person is a psychopathic POS?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:25 | 3265835 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Ever heard of a jury of your peers asshole? You might want to think about who gets to decide just who is or is not a psychopathic POS.......

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:04 | 3266103 DJ Happy Ending
DJ Happy Ending's picture

Hey old timer, I grew up in a world of plea bargins and mandatory minimums. What are these juries you speak of?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:09 | 3266111 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a Due Process Clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the Due Process Clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the Government outside the sanction of law. The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the Clauses however more broadly because these clauses provide four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_Process_Clause

We need swift emotional "justice" decided by one dude for expediency cuz he knows best.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:56 | 3266175 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

the constitution of the US does not apply to foreign countries...the governments of the countries where innocents are killed do have the right to bring charges of murder in the first degree against us drone pilots on US soil

the drone pilots will be moved offshore shortly..problem solved.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:30 | 3266223 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

It used to apply to all humankind, now it doesn't even apply to the people in this country..

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 05:31 | 3266343 new game
new game's picture

tell that to the native american.   sounds good and just, but find people of power that can impliment impartialy.

people suck in general-liars, book sellers, self promoter, blamers, douches, cheats and make it look so fucking good.

spend a day carefully observeing body language vs talk and you will discover humans are as decietfull as any species to exist.

for me always comes back to the gun, because peoples of power WILL NEVER be trustable...

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 07:30 | 3266376 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Those countries cannot even try an 'american' in their judicial system when an 'american' commits murder on their soil, 'americans' bringing back their own so they could be tried, let alone an 'american' who murders someone from an 'american' nation.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:55 | 3266439 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

how about trying a drone pilot on american soil? i guess the pentagon can't be prosecuted because it is protected by "war time" secrecy laws 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:52 | 3266322 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"We need swift emotional "justice" decided by one dude for expediency cuz he knows best."

Already happening out in the radioactive regions of Utah.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:29 | 3265847 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Who is the psychopathic piece of shit? The person being bombed or the person thousands of miles away playing video games with people's lives?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:50 | 3265918 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I suppose you heard they are going to be giving out medals for this shit..........

DOD defends new combat medal for drone pilots, cyber warriors ...

 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 05:17 | 3266334 Onohymagin
Onohymagin's picture

For Bravery.....LOL

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:55 | 3265935 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Ender's Game, bitchez.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:51 | 3265921 Kitler
Kitler's picture

Yes... even you DJ.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:57 | 3265940 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

(not to be confused)

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:26 | 3265841 Water Is Wet
Water Is Wet's picture

20 thousand feet and about 7000 miles away.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:59 | 3265950 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

20,000 feet, 7000 miles, and 20 video games away

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 09:46 | 3266501 CH1
CH1's picture

Though I can't quite put my finger on it, there's just something dishonorable about shooting an unsuspecting someone in the fucking back from 20 thousand feet..........

Yes!  It's not supposed to be fast, easy and sterile to kill human beings.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 09:54 | 3266530 e-recep
e-recep's picture

carpet bombing B-52s are the same shit.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:21 | 3265823 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Fuck u Bill Kristol

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:23 | 3265828 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

A few hellfire missiles striking the nation's capitol would cure a lot of the world's ills.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:05 | 3265971 weyes1
weyes1's picture

Be careful, Herr Dr.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:26 | 3265837 LetsGetPhysical
LetsGetPhysical's picture

How many of that 4700 were innocent women & children? Where did all the clowns in the Hague run off to?  

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:03 | 3265962 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

they were busy capturing all those bankers

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:36 | 3266226 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If we are to assume or pretend that it's an "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" retribution formula for the 911 event, then we passed the body-count a LONG time ago.  At some point you're bound to breed more new enemies with these actions, than eliminating old ones.  But maybe that's the plan in our Orwellian battle with Oceania.  Bankster and MOD (Merchants of Death) approved.  Yes, I know, in the UK, MOD = Ministry of Defense.  Aka Ministry of Death, etc...

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:32 | 3265839 Mercury
Mercury's picture

 

Every once in a while I see some evidence than not all smitten, doe-eyed Obama lovers have completely lost their marbles.

From this week's 'New Yorker'

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:27 | 3265846 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

al-cia-dah  is defined as anyone that opposes our seizing their natural resources..  4700?? is that sorta like taking candy from a baby ?

 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:27 | 3265848 which way weste...
which way western man's picture

lindsey grahamnesty...the very soft spoken, blackmailed homo 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:33 | 3265864 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

What goes around comes around.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:38 | 3265869 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

"following Diane Feinstein's 2009 gaffe"

What was her gaffe?

 

edit: I see what she did at the end of the article. My bad.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:39 | 3265885 Decimus Lunius ...
Decimus Lunius Luvenalis's picture

And we have a war on poverty and a war on terror and war on..... The U.S. surely hates sacrificing innocents in the [insert war on whatever], but as long as we're taking out senior causes of those problems, from Pablo to housing affordability to education, the collateral damage is acceptable.  Full speed ahead....

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:03 | 3265961 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

War and Crisis keeps "the machine" in  business. What would we do without them.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:47 | 3265897 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Nobel PIECE Prize - Awarded for the use of HELLFIRE-114 MISSILES, loaded with EXPLODING SHRAPNEL, in the extermination of Enemy Combatants.

RIP, you sons of bitchez.

More casualties to come, have to keep the Spice flowing.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:43 | 3265900 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Wasnt Vee that said the people shouldnt fear govt. Govt should fear the people?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:44 | 3265901 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Where is this fucking WAR I keep hearing so much about??

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:48 | 3265909 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Are you from the U.S.? Is the price of petrol at your local gas station OVER $4.00? That's not WAR, that's fucking ARMAGEDDON!!

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:54 | 3265931 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

No need to worry.  Once a person has been killed, he or she is declared a terrorist.  So only terrorists are killed. 

About the 200 or so children killed, the Nobel Prize winner has no comment. 

 

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 23:59 | 3265947 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

That Peace Prize is no longer Nobel.... Not even close.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:00 | 3265951 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

"we've killed a lot of Junior members of Al Qaida, and that's what's important.."

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:52 | 3266070 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

not american kids who will be voters, paid for with his benefits..so ..no harm no foul

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 07:34 | 3266377 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

About the 200 or so children killed, the Nobel Prize winner has no comment.
__________________

'American' military commented some time ago. Those kids were not innocent as they were forcefully guilty of something, like hanging near so called terrorists. If you are not innocent, in 'americanism', you give up on right to life.

'Americanism' at work, the best to have ever happened to humanity.

Wait for depletion of resources to kick in to embrace the full potential of 'americanism'
Abundance has this bad feature it restrains certain types, which 'americans'belong to.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:10 | 3265980 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

10 with one blow seems a bit high, but it is pretty easy to believe that there are a lot more strikes than reported.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 05:08 | 3266332 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Why? HE in a crowd would be devastating. 

One of the worst strikes I heard of was in Pakistan - members of an extended family were killed in a drone strike whilst attending the funeral of a family member killed in a previous drone strike. 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:15 | 3265993 suteibu
suteibu's picture

I am just as scared that a nitwit like Graham is in the loop on this shit.  God save us all from people like him who have never made a decision that didn't first pass his "what's in it for me" filter.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:17 | 3266001 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

so, Senator Lindsay, let me get this straight,

"Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that, but we're at war. . ."

at what point in time, specifically, has Congress declared the war you refer to?

Over 60,000 dead in undeclared wars
Congress did not declare war on Vietnam, Grenada, Lebanon, Somalia, Haiti, Panama, Serbia, or Bosnia either. But U.S. military personnel killed people in those countries and/or were killed in those countries during military actions—acts of war. Over 60,000 U.S. military personnel have died in undeclared wars (not counting Korea and Desert Storm) since World War II.

The Korean War and Desert Storm in Kuwait in 1991 were military actions pursued with a U.N. mandate.

The last time Congress declared war was December 8, 1941, the day after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and declared war on the United States.

illegal wars.  killing people globally, perpetual wars, perpetual profits. . .

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:26 | 3266023 suteibu
suteibu's picture

60,000 dead American soldiers.  No mention of the tens of thousands (millions?) of foreigners who died defending their homes and their right to have whatever government they chose or who simply got in the way while trying to mind their own business.

That said, one could argue that drones are more accurate than, say, agent orange.  Only 4700 killed as opposed to the generations of Vietnamese still suffering some 40+ years later.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:51 | 3266068 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

nobody bothers to count iraqi civilians...they don't matter to anyone in the west..remember 1 american is worth 100 "ragheads"

estimates for iraq deaths range between 100,000 and 1 million.

it may be that the civilian population was brutalized by sadam also, perhaps 250,000 dead during his regime. his regime could.

when the us was allied with iraq against iran, nor doubt both killed many iranian soliders and civilians also.

when the us was allied with al qaeda against the russians in afghanistan, there would have been thousands of military and civilian deaths.

here is what wiki has for iraq..as you can see..people cared enough to do a sample for a body count. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:57 | 3266087 john39
john39's picture

We americans had better pray... that after our economy collapses and the bankers move on to other hosts that the rest of the world has mercy on our us and our children and does not do to us what our government has done to them for so long. 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:10 | 3266289 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

I remember seeing the big bulldozers they used to bury Iraqis in trenches alive during the first invasion.  Not only do US troops flagrantly contravene the Geneva convention at every opportunity, they often do so LIVE! on TV for your viewing pleasure. 

This, and the drone killings, come as no surprise when considering US Military's penchant for misery and death, be it nuclear, chemical or conventional weapons.  They really stand head and shoulders above anyone, turning the killing of millions into not only a varied and creative art form, but also a sound business proposition.

This is the impression America will leave on history forever.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:19 | 3266007 Herkimer Jerkimer
Herkimer Jerkimer's picture

'

'

'

Obummer OWNS this.

 

•J•
V-V

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:35 | 3266041 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

I rarely play the "left" vs "right" game, and I like to sock it to the so-called "leftists" on FluffPo when presented the opportunity, but NOBODY on the "right" in this country (the USofA, that is) has the goddamned right to be offended by or against drone warfare.

Not after the Patriot Act. And its sequel. Not after the Iraq War bullshit. Not after the Military Commissions Act of 2006. Not after the "freedom" everything bullshit. Not after the "If you're not with us, you're against us" bullshit.

It will be 10 fucking years already since the illegal Iraq invasion. I know where I was that night, and the next few nights. I protested it, and was arrested for it. Yeah - arrested, in Amerikkka, for exercising my Constitutional right. That'll learn me. The only Amendment that matters is the second one. But what of the Third Amendment, I ask? (Go look at it yourself.)

Fuck this stupid shitpad. We all deserve to die, and die like flies.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&v...

Amerikkka: Fascist before fascism was cool.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:38 | 3266046 suteibu
suteibu's picture

A righteous rant.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:49 | 3266432 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There would be no first amendment withouth the second amendment. There is a reason why they are number one and two.. The first is for concepts and ideas, the second gives them time to flourish.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:11 | 3266050 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

drones can be used against terrorists in the US? there is no problem killing suspected terrorists and anyone within 20 yards of them in foreign countries..i wonder how japan, france, german, australia or the uk would feel if drones were used on american citiziens in their countries?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21347861

as far as I can make out, the british are pretty tolerant of anyone using drones for anything as long as they meet these conditions..i guess the same is true in the US...5 lbs of c4 would make a very big hole

  • It is legal to fly your own drone in the UK without any special permission if it weighs less than 20kg and flies more than 150m from a congested are
  • CAA permission is required if it is used for a commercial activity such as aerial photography
  • Permission has been given for inspecting power lines, police use and crop surveillance
  • Direct visual contact with the drone is currently required at all times
  • Drones larger than 20kg would have to be approved for use by the CAA for use in UK airspace in the same way as commercial aircraft
  • The CAA has made clear that it will not approve their use until it is convinced the drone can automatically "sense and avoid" other aircraft

 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:16 | 3266298 smacker
smacker's picture

"It is legal to fly your own drone in the UK without any special permission if it weighs less than 20kg and flies more than 150m from a congested area"

 

That's great. I have this home-made drone packed full of C4 and it comes in at 19kg. So I can take it along to Richmond Park - which is almost directly under the LHR inbound flight path - and fly it, because it's far more than 150m from any congested area. When it accidentally hits a SAL Airbus A380 and brings the whole lot down, I can claim that it simply went out of control due to radio interference or someone was jamming the guidance signals.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 06:23 | 3266356 Acet
Acet's picture

I suspect "congested area" is also read in terms of airspace. As such, any TMA would likelly fall under those terms.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 06:41 | 3266358 smacker
smacker's picture

Well, that's still OK. Planes are above 150m when they cross one edge of Richmond Park ;-) They're about 3-4 mins from touchdown.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:48 | 3266431 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

lucky for you, there is no c4 in london (in the "wrong" hands) and your domestic terrorists struggle with ikea instructions.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 11:01 | 3266791 smacker
smacker's picture

"...your domestic terrorists struggle with ikea instructions"

 

Indeed.

It makes me wonder why we allow them to run the country ;-)

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:54 | 3266079 hannah
hannah's picture

when did congress declare war....?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 05:11 | 3266333 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"when did congress declare war....?"

Well, it takes no genius to know that finally people are figuring out that the drone murders in Pakistan and Afghanistan have actually only been practice and training grounds for what is coming to the USA. Some day there will be story after story in what is left of the yellow journalism rags about whole American families being "taken out" at birthday parties, and outdoor marriages by the thousands. It will all be just as ignored then, as it is today by those who are tomorrows targets.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 00:55 | 3266082 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

These tactics are:

1 – It is possible to know the intention and the mission of the drone by using the Russian- made “sky grabber” device to infiltrate the drone’s waves and the frequencies. The device is available in the market for $2,595 and the one who operates it should be a computer- know-how.
2 – Using devices that broadcast frequencies or pack of frequencies to disconnect the contacts and confuse the frequencies used to control the drone. The Mujahideen have had successful experiments using the Russian-made “Racal.”
3 – Spreading the reflective pieces of glass on a car or on the roof of the building.
4 – Placing a group of skilled snipers to hunt the drone, especially the reconnaissance ones because they fly low, about six kilometers or less.
5 – Jamming of and confusing of electronic communication using the ordinary water-lifting dynamo fitted with a 30-meter copper pole.
6 – Jamming of and confusing of electronic communication using old equipment and keeping them 24-hour running because of their strong frequencies and it is possible using simple ideas of deception of equipment to attract the electronic waves devices similar to that used by the Yugoslav army when they used the microwave (oven) in attracting and confusing the NATO missiles fitted with electromagnetic searching devices.
7 – Using general confusion methods and not to use permanent headquarters.
8 – Discovering the presence of a drone through well-placed reconnaissance networks and to warn all the formations to halt any movement in the area.
9 – To hide from being directly or indirectly spotted, especially at night.
10 – To hide under thick trees because they are the best cover against the planes.
11 – To stay in places unlit by the sun such as the shadows of the buildings or the trees.
12 – Maintain complete silence of all wireless contacts.
13 – Disembark of vehicles and keep away from them especially when being chased or during combat.
14 – To deceive the drone by entering places of multiple entrances and exits.
15 – Using underground shelters because the missiles fired by these planes are usually of the fragmented anti-personnel and not anti-buildings type.
16 – To avoid gathering in open areas and in urgent cases, use building of multiple doors or exits.
17 – Forming anti-spies groups to look for spies and agents.
18 – Formation of fake gatherings such as using dolls and statutes to be placed outside false ditches to mislead the enemy.
19 – When discovering that a drone is after a car, leave the car immediately and everyone should go in different direction because the planes are unable to get after everyone.
20 – Using natural barricades like forests and caves when there is an urgent need for training or gathering.
21 – In frequently targeted areas, use smoke as cover by burning tires.
22 – As for the leaders or those sought after, they should not use communications equipment because the enemy usually keeps a voice tag through which they can identify the speaking person and then locate him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9886637/Revealed-al-Q...

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:10 | 3266112 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

is there a news blackout in the us on the use of drones?

wtf...is there a balckout because then any drugged up or crazy religious asswipe could start deploying drones in the us at the golden gate bridge or statue of liberty or ...something?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:11 | 3266115 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

Drones are awesome. Lindsey Graham is one of the few politicians these days that "get it".

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:26 | 3266221 Vooter
Vooter's picture

No, 9/11 was awesome. Awesomely FUNNY...

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:51 | 3266238 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Drones are awesome. Lindsey Graham is one of the few politicians these days that "get it".

It's who get it.  It would be more awesome if you used proper grammar, instead of an old pic of Henry Kissinger.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:45 | 3266426 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

plural = gets...fugget it...back to JD

Sat, 02/23/2013 - 12:12 | 3269814 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

Ah yes ... when logical argument fails the sheeple always resort to the "bad grammer" or speling errors in the arugment insead of the argument itself.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:13 | 3266116 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I don't watch TV. I thought the US was Al-Qaida. And, isn't Al-Quida fighting for the New World Order. Maybe college does lower intelligence. No I'm sure of it Rumsfeld and Cheney with the help of Al-Qaida took down the WTC or was the building 7. I'll have to wait until Phillip Marshall's next book comes out. Oh ya that's right he's dead. Hasn't the DHS purchased 1.75 billion hollow points because Al-Qaida was too unpredictable for the Federal Government to use on US soil. Anyhow 450,000 Arab children were killed and that's good for Israel.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:20 | 3266129 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

"Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that, but we're at war..."

Really, then why don't you go ahead and MOVE FOR CONGRESS TO DECLARE WAR you tool?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 01:53 | 3266171 observer007
observer007's picture
Feds Buy 2 Billion Rounds of Ammunition

 

http://homment.com/iSTGuz6uEy

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:54 | 3266241 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Thus diverting the supply, to deny Patriots/Preppers from buying them.  The cost is a negligible amount of QE money, which has no true cost to them anyway.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:25 | 3266218 smart girl
smart girl's picture

Seattle WA - Bill Regulating Unmanned Drones Gets Committee Approval   http://blogs.seattletimes.com/politicsnorthwest/2013/02/21/bill-regulati...

 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:42 | 3266423 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

ok..so drivel so far legislature wise..why shouldn't a person have a drone to check out their, say ranch, or local traffic conditions to work? it used to be that porn was the early adopter of military technology...now i am thinking its something else..

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:25 | 3266219 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that, but we're at war, and we've taken out some very senior members of al-Qaida."

Except, of course, that we're NOT at war, because no war was ever declared. The idea that we're at war is just completely made-up bullshit vomited out by slimy, corrupt, Jesus-fucking crackers like Lindsey Graham, all of whom should be RAPED IN THE ASS and then HANGED.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 02:38 | 3266227 dunce
dunce's picture

A muslim is innocent in the same sense that an AIDS virus is innocent.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 10:47 | 3266700 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well at least they were successful convincing you the first amendment is silly

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 03:09 | 3266257 MagicMoney
MagicMoney's picture

Bravo, at least Obama is trying not to send americans to get killed. He is just sending robots to kill people around the world....Sarcasm. Unfortunately many americans have this mentality. They want protectionism, only whine about war when americans are dying. National Socialism is alive, and well. There is a reason why under Obama drone attacks have increased dramatically. It's more politically expedient to try to control the world by minimizing headlines of americans being killed. Bill Clinton sure was trigger happy with those cruise missles. Eager to press the button even if the target was a factory that manufactured medicine or something.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 03:16 | 3266259 Joe A
Joe A's picture

"Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that, but we're at war".

Al Qaeada in 2001: "yes, we took out these two towers but we hit innocent people. We hate that but we are at war". How does that sound?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 03:37 | 3266270 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

oh man - you've said it now.  Conflicting theory onslaught in 5... 4... 3...

 

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 11:29 | 3266915 Joe A
Joe A's picture

I thought I'd throw in a provocative thought here. Still waiting for the onslaught. My point is that this Graham dude would think differently of hitting the innocent ('but hey, we are at war') if the innocent concerned his own children or grandchildren.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 03:36 | 3266274 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

"Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that"

Like, totally, I can relate man.  This one time, I hit this old lady, and I hated it, but, well, she totally shouldn't have been in the car park and well, at least that's one less pension.  We're in a financial crisis yuh know.....

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:25 | 3266303 Zero-risk bias
Zero-risk bias's picture

Like, totally. Not to mention it's inconvenient, I hate having to mop up all that blood. It just doesn't wash off. Aye, collateral damage sucks.

Booo!

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:38 | 3266310 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Yeah brah, you so get it.  Well, I was lucky man, she was old so she was pretty dry and it was like the wheelchair did more damage?  I told a Policeman but he was cool 'cuz she was like hispanic or something so it didn't matter.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 04:38 | 3266309 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

There is no use explaining.

In 'american' societies, the military institutions are middle class institutions.

We The People is aware of what is going on since We The People operates the institution.

In the US, just make that simple but yet funny experiment.

Ask any 'american' if he/she serves (served), if she/he has a member of close family who serves (served), finally, if she/he has a member of the extended family who serves (served)

Given the pool of sources available, the servants to the 'american' middle class do not waste time delivering information the US public is aware of since they perform the acts by themselves.

More propaganda by this 'american' author.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 07:29 | 3266374 css1971
css1971's picture

America declared war? ... Um wouldn't that have been on CNBC or something?

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:19 | 3266409 razorthin
razorthin's picture

You're at war?  Then get yo ass into uniform Lindsey Graham!

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:27 | 3266413 Racer
Racer's picture

"Sometimes you hit innocent people, and I hate that"

Hate that? I bet the words and actions would be much much stronger if his own children were killed

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 08:53 | 3266437 booboo
booboo's picture

The Graham family has a long history of serving in the military, his pappy served in Korea, he was a "file clerk" in Seoul so they said but was actually running a high end cat house for arriving dignataries, generals and liquor distributors. Grand pappy Graham was a closet cross dresser when he was not in uniform. Great grand pappy Graham fled at the Battle of San Juan after his breach loader exploded from lack of cleaning from bungholing himself alone in his army tent. Great great grandpappy Graham operated a shipping company during the war of succession running looted cotton and sundry items out of the burnt out southern cities for jewish bankers:)

Lindsey is a fairy and spent most of his childhood hidden under his mothers apron.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 09:22 | 3266463 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

Civil War Coming To America
Interview With Joe Cortina - Ex Green Beret

 

http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=797

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 09:32 | 3266476 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"The government says you can’t know how many people U.S. drone strikes have killed, because that’s a state secret."

A refreshing comment actually.  Now if the state would also admit that the true price of gold, the true level of unemployment and the true availability of oil were also state secrets (which they are), then maybe some people would wake up.

Fair is fair.  We're at war, so secrets must be kept.

Fri, 02/22/2013 - 12:33 | 3267202 dadichris
dadichris's picture

"when you take out a building with an aircraft sometimes you hit innocent people, but we'ere are war", said no one.

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