This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Eric Sprott: Is the West Dishoarding Its Sovereign Treasure?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Adam Taggart via Peak Prosperity,

We are well into the financial crisis. Everyone’s trying to keep it together, even though it would appear from the reading of the economy things are not going well at all here. And everyone's ignoring things.


But I think, in their hearts, the Central Bankers must know what they’re doing is totally irresponsible. And the tell of that irresponsibility which is the debasing of the currencies is the fact that real things will go up in value. This should be reflected in the price of gold and silver.

So expresses Eric Sprott, CEO and founder of Sprott Asset Management, and one of the most experienced and vocal advocates for owning precious metals.

The past decade has validated Eric's thesis, as gold has risen considerably against all world fiat currencies. But what vexes him is that in recent years, when currency debasement has accelerated to extreme levels, precious metals prices have been clearly suppressed, particularly versus the U.S. dollar.

As the topic of price manipulation is nothing new, Eric finds his focus increasingly drawn to where the precious metals are going at these bargain prices - who is accumulating and who is dishoarding:

I’ve done a lot of work on the flow of metals. I come up with a net change of 2,300 tons a year in new buying in gold when the supply of gold hasn’t even gone up in the last twelve years. And you keep wondering: Well, where’s all this gold coming from?

His findings support the growing meme that there is a massive bullion transfer from West to East. This should particularly concern those in the U.S., EU and Canada as his suspicion is that, increasingly, it's monetary gold that is being sold.

There are several key questions to ask here (not that the data publicly exists to answer them):

  • How much of our sovereign monetary bullion reserves have been sold to date?
  • How much will be sold in the future? (Are we willing to sell all of it? or is there a limit we refuse to let go of?)
  • What will happen to the price of gold & silver when central banks stop selling to another? (Answer: shoot the moon)
  • What will be the fate of those economies that dishorded their treasure? (Answer: lamentable)

When I see China buying 95 tons of gold in December and I read that India bought 100 tons in the month of January, when we all collectively know there’s only about 200 tons a month available –  you have to conclude that G6 Central Banks continue to sell their gold in a very non-transparent fashion.


One of the things we saw in December was that the U.S. Department of Commerce reported that U.S. exports of gold were $4 billion. We exported 2.5 million ounces of gold. And where it comes from, [only] God knows; the country only produces 8.8 million a nd most of that’s used internally. So I don’t know how you just come up with 2.5 million ounces that you’re able to export. So I believe that even though it’s described as non-monetary gold, my guess is that it is monetary gold.


There’s lots afoot here in central banking to try to keep it organized. And I think one of those things is to keep the price suppressed.


But the non-G6 nations have been huge buyers of gold, and I think the more anybody looks at the system from outside looking in, they realize they have to have gold and silver, notwithstanding the nonsense that goes on in COMEX and the LBMA (London Bullion Market Association).


When I got involved in the gold market, it was assumed that the central banks had something like 36,000 tons of gold. And there was a great study done by Frank Veneroso where he suggests 18,000 those tons didn’t even exist anymore.


The [global] central banks are sellers of 400 tons in an overt fashion. Now we see buying of over 500 tons. That, just in itself, is a 900-ton change in a 4000-ton market, if I’m including recyclables here. And yet there’s been no increase in supply.


So I have to assume that these central banks are running low, and the question in my mind is, do they just go down to zero and then give up?


Or do they look in the cupboards one day and say look, this is just not going to work because the intensity of buying by people, like China in particular, has just gone absolutely bonkers. And it looks like India, notwithstanding putting a surtax or excise tax on gold, the demand seems to be very firm. And as you mentioned, mint sales have been amazingly strong here.


So I think there’s enough element of the world who get it that the pressure’s going to continue to be on the price of gold going higher. And yes, there’s nothing we can do in terms of what’s going on in the COMEX and the LBMA, but we keep seeing more and more people asking for delivery, even in the COMEX. So I think that the day can’t be far off. We can’t predict when it’s going to be, but the natural stage should be that the price of gold is going up, and we’re in such a tremendous financial crisis that it hasn’t been allowed to manifest itself because they’re putting out fires all the time.

For precious metals holders licking their wounds from the carnage of the past several months [23], this podcast offers both new insights and sound reminders of the long-term reasons for owning gold and silver. Those on the sidellines considering entering into the precious metals, perhaps for the first time, should consider reading our guide to Buying Gold & Silver [24] after listening to this podcast. 

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Eric Sprott (34m:40s):

Click here to read the full transcript


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:32 | 3272112 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

Au bitchez!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:41 | 3272126 ratso
ratso's picture

Sprott has become a fiction writer.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:48 | 3272141 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Non-fiction horror writer...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:53 | 3272263 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"The [global] central banks are sellers of 400 tons in an overt fashion. Now we see buying of over 500 tons. That, just in itself, is a 900-ton change in a 4000-ton market, if I’m including recyclables here. And yet there’s been no increase in supply."

'If' he's including recyclables lol. Yeah, why do that anyway? It's only about a third of the market??

This article is so absurd I don't know how Sprott can spout this nonsense with a straight face.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:07 | 3272289 Badabing
Badabing's picture


I've tried to imagine what would be the motive?

it just doesn't make sense, to give away the western gold!

I've always said when something doesn't make sense we don't know all the facts.

why would TPTB want to do a thing like give it away? Unless TPTB hold a large amount of gold, and when i say large i mean so large that if it was to be released to the gold market it would collapse.

in the thirtieth century the king of france witnessed a secrete stash of gold held by the Templars.

the treasure was of unamanigeable size and the king was so impressed that he wanted to join the Templars but was refused.

In retaliation he rounded up the leaders of the Templars and burned them at the stake on Friday the 13th. The templars treasure has not been heard of since then.

or Yamashita's gold another horde of gold captured from the pillaging of the Chinese by the Japanese during WW2 that if released into the market would make gold loose value.

I know that the dimond industry holds back on dimonds to support the price why cant it happen with gold. if this is true the east is being dupped!


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:32 | 3272334 strannick
strannick's picture

Gold price suppresion is one of the easiest, most supported economic notions to accept. Respond precisely to Sprotts logic or STFU. Interst rate suppression, HSBC drug laundering, more conspiracy? GLD and COMEX are farcical, and Bart Chilton and the CFTC are corrupt or clowns. This isnt news to someone capable of reasoning and who bothers to look at facts, read the literature from GATA ect.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:37 | 3272366 akak
akak's picture

Strannick, I think we just discovered what Jon Nadler has been doing with his time now that he has been shitcanned from Kitco. 

One has to wonder how many sockpuppets --- PUD? Badabing? A number of other gold-bashing newbies here? --- he has here, as the recent decline of anti-gold trolls has suddenly and mysteriously taken a large jump back upwards.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:48 | 3272379 strannick
strannick's picture


I like him better as an embittered annonymous blogger in his bunny slippers and undershirt v. smuggly spouting disinfo w Danielle. I will miss his annual price forecasts. They were a great contrarian indicator. Maybe now he,s building his multi marketing empire, flogging Herbalife for Carl lchan

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:49 | 3272391 akak
akak's picture

Strannick, don't be silly --- you and I both know that Jonny sleeps in the nude on sheets made from the tanned skins of "Radical Goldbug Extremists".

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:54 | 3272533 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Strannick: ""Gold price suppresion is one of the easiest, most supported economic notions to accept. Respond precisely to Sprotts logic or STFU."

Sprott's basic logic here: "When I see China buying 95 tons of gold in December and I read that India bought 100 tons in the month of January, when we all collectively know there’s only about 200 tons a month available –  you have to conclude that G6 Central Banks continue to sell their gold in a very non-transparent fashion."

I love his you "have to conclude" because of course there's no other possible explanation.

Basic claim suggest demand in two sectors means secret sales from central banks to make up for an apparent (Sprotts claim) lack of supply. How he gets to this logic is a big mystery, but if one looks at the numbers the OBVIOUS explanation is that lack of demand in certain sectors has been offset by demand elsewhere.

Look at the actual numbers and percentages and then come up with a rational argument why Central banks would be forced to secretly sell their gold reserves to make up for supply - Sprott suggests right down to zero lol.

Total Gold supply: 4453T

And yes, supply takes into consideration paper gold.

Central bank purchases: 534T

Total consumer demand in India was 262T, in China it was 214T.

Here's what you need to read:


Q4 was the strongest quarter for global jewellery demand since Q1 2011 as India, and to some extent the Middle Eastern markets, drove a recovery in the sector. The quarterly value of demand was 13% higher year-on-year at US$29.1bn.


A decline in annual investment was the result of a divergence between institutional and retail investor behaviour. A 17% drop in demand for bars and coins together with a 51% increase in ETFs and similar products created a 10% reduction in investment demand.

"Despite a strong fourth quarter for Indian investment, the full year picture shows a considerable reduction in the size of bar and coin demand in that market. As discussed above, the impact of a weaker first half dominated the year-on-year comparison in India. Despite healthy levels of gross demand for bars and coins, the combination of heightened profit-taking activity and de-stocking by bullion dealers during the first six months of the year had the largest impact on net full-year demand."

"In China, investment was little changed from 2011, although 265.5t represented a very healthy level of demand. Purchases related to Chinese New Year helped to elevate demand in the first and fourth quarters of the year, but investors were somewhat inhibited by the lack of a clear price signal during much of the year, given their preference to buy into a rising trend. For a discussion of gold demand in China during the year, see the Executive summary."

"In the US, fourth quarter demand picked up from the disappointing third quarter, buoyed by the concerns over the ‘fiscal cliff’ and the continuation of quantitative easing by the Federal Reserve. However, for the year as a whole demand of 53.4t was down 36% year-on-year, well below the elevated levels of the post-global financial crisis era.


"Annual demand for gold in the technology sector contracted by 5% in 2012 to 428.2t, a 5% decline from the 5-year average of 453.1t. In value terms, demand made marginal gains over 2011 to hit a new record of US$23bn, 48% above the 5-year average of US$15.5bn. Although there were some bright spots, the general picture for the year was one of persistent decline in tonnage with values maintained at steady levels."


"Central banks garnered a greater share of gold demand in 2012, accounting for 12% of the total compared with a 10% share in 2011. Total net purchases by central banks of 534.6t exceeded 2011’s already strong total and signalled a return to levels of buying last seen almost 50 years ago. The year saw a number of new joiners added to the list of institutions building their gold reserves; Brazil and Paraguay were two such names, both making significant purchases during the year."

"The annual total of 534.6t represented the greatest level of demand since 1964 as the net of central banks adding to their gold reserves was cast wider, reaching Brazil, Paraguay, Iraq and Venezuela."

"Russia adhered to its long term buying programme, adding around 75.0t to its reserve holdings throughout the year through the purchase of domestically produced gold. The country’s gold reserves, the seventh largest globally, now approaches 1,000t and slightly less than the 10% of total reserves."

"Latin America adopted a higher regional profile within the group of central banks adding to gold reserves. During 2012, Brazil and Paraguay made purchases of 34.0t and 7.5t respectively, adding to the net 19.0t bought by Mexico as part of the continued reserve-building witnessed in the region.

Iraq also joined the ranks of net purchasers of gold, adding 24.1t of gold to its reserves between August and November. Gold reserves are just shy of 30t, equal to an allocation of around 2.5%."


"The supply of gold in the fourth quarter was virtually unchanged relative to Q4 2011, just 2.5t lower at 1,133.2t. A year-on-year decline in recycling activity (notably a contraction in Indian recycling as the price dipped in December) cancelled out a moderate increase in mine supply."

"2012 saw a pause in the rising trend in mine production from the 2008 lows as production grew by just 0.4% to 2,847.7t (9% above the 5-year average of 2,614.0t). Additional production was generated by a number of new projects coming on stream, primarily in Q1, as well as by the ramping of production at a number of relatively new operations. However, the impact of planned production interruptions and unforeseen delays at a number of mines, together with widespread labour unrest in South Africa, was of an equal scale. The net result for annual production was a negligible increase as these opposing influences cancelled one another out.

Among the countries to record an increase in annual production were China and Russia, while South Africa and Indonesia saw the largest absolute declines."

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:19 | 3272568 strannick
strannick's picture

Death by  1000 cuts and paste.

'4453T supply takes into account paper gold'?

Please do explain how this supply takes into account paper gold, when paper gold implies infinite supply.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:23 | 3272590 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I meant hedging on the supply side.

"Please do explain how this supply takes into account paper gold, when paper gold implies infinite supply."

ETF claims are there on the demand, the table is on pg19

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:42 | 3272630 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Chinese imports through August 2012 was 565T. Most yoy estimetes suggest over 900T for the year. 

You might want to get better information.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:05 | 3272665 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

WGC is the best resource, they peg China demand at 776T.

Read the WGC reports and then start complaining. I wanted to post the relevant tables here because its the easiest way to cover all the necessary info but I don't know how to post images.

It's not that hard to open the report and go to pg19 though, then explain how Sprott has a point.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:16 | 3272698 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

No, WGC is the establishment source and thus is compromised. You never take what your enemy gives you. 

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:00 | 3272796 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I question the logic of imm throwing out the WGC research while uncritically looking at Sprott. I guess Sprott is just a nice guy billionaire who speculates in pms and pm financial products with only the altruistic motive of helping his fellow man become rich?

Where's Sprott getting his numbers from??

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:15 | 3272826 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You're assuming numbers you have failed to verify or researched. At least Sprott does the research. 

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 02:47 | 3273304 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I meant "where does Sprott get his numbers from" rhetorically, he also gets his numbers from the WGC - I haven't come across many people who throw out WGC. On that link you sent me scroll down to Feb 14.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:21 | 3272842 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Where's Sprott getting his numbers from??


Chuck Norris.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 23:42 | 3272991 bilbert
bilbert's picture

Ummm............... Eric Sprott is one of the few people actively and PUBLICALLY, buying MASSIVE amounts of physical Gold and Silver for his funds.

Just for shits and giggles, how many HUNDREDS of millions of dollars of physical Gold or Silver have you purchased in the last three years??

Thought so...............



Mon, 02/25/2013 - 03:39 | 3273331 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Ummm............... Eric Sprott is one of the few people actively and PUBLICALLY, buying MASSIVE amounts of physical Gold and Silver for his funds."

Yeah he runs ETFs - do you think that might make him a bit perma-bullish publically?? Particularly as all his funds are getting totally hammered.

As an investor you have the luxury of moving in and out of the market easily / frequently, for Sprott that style of investment is not his friend. With his funds seeing big declines his recourse seems to be coming up with outlandish secret plots and saying don't be fooled by the 'establishment' when guess what HE IS the establishment.

I'm not bearish on gold btw, I would just hedge & buy - sell seasonally. Putting faith in secret plots involving depletion of CB holdings down to zero by selling to the East... not the greatest foundation for an investment in gold.

^ nice work Sprott asset mangement! You guys are the best! / sarc

Step aside Loeb, behold the unbelieveable Sprott funds!

The kings of Bay Street! Soon the world!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 02:16 | 3276733 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

When it comes to manipulation my view is that if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck. The onus is on you to show that it isn't.

Simple rule of thumb, if you produce more of something it's value becomes less. The CB's are printing money, you 'd have to be some kind of delusional nut to say other yet pm's have gone down.

I'd say it quacks like a duck. Over to you...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:26 | 3272541 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

This brings us to the question of what changes in the DCs might be made to permit such a transfer of wealth? Some people seem to believe that all that would be required is for the rich to change their lifestyle and consume only as much as the average human being. Then the wealth saved could be transferred to the poor, raising them to the average. But income is closely tied to productivity. As Nathan Keyfitz observed, "If, starting tomorrow, Americans were all to live like Indians, then their higher incomes would simply disappear. There would be nothing to transfer. How much is transferable depends on the extent to which Americans could consume like Indians while continuing to produce like Americans." Some way therefore must be found to free wealth and transfer it without breaking the close link between production and consumption.

John Holdren - Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment (pg 1408-1409)


Remember what I have posted on several occasions; China [and emerging economies] cannot simply 'Over-Take' the West since they need our consumption to fuel their production based prosperity. If we contract, so do they. Instead, they need to 'Leap Frog' over the West in a mass Wealth Transfer action...DEBT....DOLLAR COLLAPSE....GOLD.

The writing is on the wall, the bread crumbs are everywhere. If you've been on non-MSM (eg ZH) for any reasonable length of time, you will surely recognise that the multitude of events surrounding PMs over the past 5 years have not been exclusively manipulation, they have been positioning events.

***Gold is being POSITIONED for the Wealth Transfer***


This Wealth Transfer has been brought to you by the team at Agenda21. Thank you for your cooperation and remember to pick up a copy of 'Limits To Growth' at the Club Of Rome Bookshop Our newly updated plan to...well, you know...can be found here

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 00:11 | 3273029 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

A simple broad view of what I believe is happening.

The west is indebted to the point where they cannot borrow anymore and consume at previously experienced rates. Western consumers have borrowed to afford xyz life style and standard of living. Eastern producers have sacrificed xyz life style and standard of living in favour of saving, which in turn supplied credit markets where western consumers attain their credit. People in the east save because of financial fear (minimal to no social security). This has long lasting – austerity is good - affects upon the human psyche. People in the west do not save because of no financial fear (maximum social security). This has long lasting – waste and consumption is ok - affects upon the human psyche.

When you remove the choppiness from the financial waters what you notice is that the tide is moving out; the global economy is contracting. This contraction was brought about from 30 years of excessive borrowing, accommodative monetary expansion, and subsequent periods of asset inflation…all of which amounts to nothing more than bringing forward future prosperity and standards of living which were meant to organically arise sometime in the future, not artificially stimulated into existence today.

Western consumers have attempted to pay-off debt but have now returned to credit (cards/equity) for day-to-day living, using wages to [attempt to] pay off credit debt. Consumer debt is again expanding.

The eastern consumer is a saver and although the west has theorized that eastern producers will soon become middle class eastern consumers, this has not eventuated…culturally, this won’t happen for a very long time and that fear based psyche won't

Western governments are increasing debt so as to support standards of living and pay debts. Taxation and trade surpluses have either dropped off if positive or, if negative, have become weighty. Governments use QE to monetise treasuries and this allows liquidity to continue to flow into markets. Low to zero interest rates reduce debt burden as they continue to leverage up. Leveraging up is necessary just to remain economically buoyant, let alone any increase in standard of living. I believe this is the financial version of peak oils' bumpy plateau; the longer they hold back inevitability the steeper the descent will be…until we all tumble. When you think about the positioning of China, Putins’ Russia and the BRICS, you can see that their planning takes this into consideration. For the east it’s all about buying-up resources while the west sits at the poker machine all night long.

Western and some eastern banks rely upon government deficit spending and monetization to support their own debt servicing. Recently, banks have not ‘marked to market’ assets as to do so would open up the financial cracks in the proverbial leaky dam. Global asset and stock markets are over-priced and over-bought, they do not reflect either the current reality or future outlook. This has been encouraged by governments.

Monetary debasement has been both coordinated and reactive.

There is no possible way of remarking the opaque over the counter derivative market, nor will there be any attempt to do so, regardless of bond values. True market values will only be obtained through a painful sell-off.

Regardless of comments, interest rates will be low or on hold long into the future. So long as the economic tide keeps moving out, retail will need to be supported. Rates will only return once the economic tide returns to healthy levels. Excluding a collapse and reset period, this could be 10-15 years away. Retail affects real estate, in turn real estate affects bank assets (debt), in turn bank assets affect bank solvency (see Europe).

The main stream media have been complicit in maintaining the status quo.

Although gold and silver have huge uplift pressures, they are being manipulated and suppressed so as not to put the spotlight onto the global economic recovery sham.

The west has been very slow to assess and counter Russia, China, India and other entities rapid accumulation and hoarding of gold and silver (primarily). This is both a protective and offensive measure.

The five years since the GFC has simply been the bouncing around and weight transfer, as the global economic train switches rails and heads into another direction. If we assume that the past 20-30 years of western standard of living has been steroid induced, then it is likely that the next 10-15 years will be austerity induced.

Since everything is relative, there is an alternative which nobody has explored. Instead of the west being austere, the east can be allowed to have its own period where standard of living has been steroid induced. This is the wealth transfer. If a wealth transfer shifts wealth and power across to the east, then current debts would be reduced dramatically, relatively speaking.

If the west has lost gold and the east has gained gold, then allowing economies of both east and west to hitch onto gold would allow that transfer to take place…assuming gold is repriced to an appropriate level ($130k/oz).

This is what the eastern gold buyers are attempting to do. They’re not hedging against currency devaluation, they positioning gold as a wealth transfer mechanism.

The question comes down to how much gold does the west really have…I’m guessing about 20% of what’s advertised.

If I'm right, the secret cold war will be allowed to go public.

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 10:29 | 3273779 Badabing
Badabing's picture


i dont know If you are in denial or something, but I have been with ZH for 5 months less then you so call me a noob, fine

I was talking about a hypothetical scenario, you know “thinking” that’s all. I’m surprised because you seem to me as one that thinks also. I BTFD all the time, and if you think about what I wrote its not bashing because TPTB will never reveal there hand and the game will go on while the price goes up.    


Mon, 02/25/2013 - 11:42 | 3274015 akak
akak's picture


You are correct, and I apologize --- I had made my comment (like most, or at least so many here) rather hastily and off the cuff, and should not have indicted you as either a newbie or an anti-gold troll.  I had intended to name James Cole instead, but in the heat of the moment I looked up the thread and accidentally mistook your handle for his.  Again, my apologies.

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 12:38 | 3274189 Badabing
Badabing's picture

We will go on as allies my friend

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:32 | 3272352 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

"I've tried to imagine what would be the motive?"

Send your money then move there for sanctury? 

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:51 | 3272393 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

The motive is to provide for the continued purchase of gold with US dollars therefore giving the impression dollars are good as gold.  Once gold can't be purchased by dollars = instant end of the dollar.  Therefore gold must be provided the market in sufficient quantity to appease demand (whatever demand that isn't sopped up by the rags GLD and comex paper and other schemes).


The short answer is:  to keep the ponsi going.

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 00:26 | 3273107 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

What is it with gold and silver haters anyway?  Why does it piss you people off if I buy phyzz with my hard earned fiat instead of keeping it within a currency that is being devalued by billions  of dollars a day?  I belong to the mere 1% of western people who stack phyzz.  I´m only doing it because it seems to me to be one of the very few ways to save my own ass (and my family) against the sheer lunacy of printing trillions out of thin air, and living within a society that has wracked up debts so high, they can never be payed back.  I see that even now, we have near 0% interest rates, which not only discourage savings, it destroys savings by inflation.  I see our older, retired folks that can't live off their interest anymore, it doesn´t exist!   So now their forced to burn through whatever saved capital instead.  I see people who have pensions worrying that their funds are going to be forced to cut distributions of incresingly worthless dollars.  I see flash crashes on Wall Street, talk of muppets, outright scandals and manipulations galore, not to mention the 600+ trillon dollar derivatives timebomb underlaying the whole financial system to boot...yet I´m supposed to be the fool for stacking? With all this bullshit going on?  Go ahead and short GLD and SLV with your own cash.  Have fun in the stock market.  Enjoy your CNBS.  I´m long done with the ponzi game.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:08 | 3272564 fourchan
fourchan's picture

before the big heave up I expect gold to price down in paper dollars because you sell what you can in the end. this is where the gold bugs will be tested to the utmost. id recommend buying what percentage real pms is good for you and forget about them as if they were as worthless as paper dollars are now. there is only one direction the dollar and gold are going to eventually.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:34 | 3272363 jballz
jballz's picture

Nice fairy tale gold bitch

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:12 | 3272440 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Thirteenth century (turn of the fourteenth, actually.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:06 | 3272562 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Rest assured that the goldsmiths NEVER gave up their bullion. They know full well the power of real money. The movement of gold from West to East during the last couple of years in particular is a tacit agreement constructed to maintain the dollar reserve status. This will eventually unwind in some fashion pre-determined for you NOT to KNOW. The control of money is the key and the reset of fiat reserve status will incorporate gold and GUESS which entity has NOT sent their gold EAST? Fractional reserve "gold" banking is nothing new to our masters.

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 06:57 | 3273439 _underscore
_underscore's picture

My overall view too, kliguy38. The closing of the gold window by Nixon in 1971 was in my view a 'last throw of the dice' - the US/Western planners saw USSR & China  (and to a lesser extent Brazil, India) as the coming powers & 'pure' fiat currency unemcumbered by the discipline of a gold standard was the 1970s version of can kicking & allowed them 40-years 'grace' before they were overtaken.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:14 | 3272691 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Blythe has her Beijing bungalow and her Macau mansion picked out?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:46 | 3272761 akarc
akarc's picture

"it just doesn't make sense, to give away the western gold!

I've always said when something doesn't make sense we don't know all the facts."

I've noted same on a couple of occasions. The gold/silver prices are not and have not not been making sense.  

I've read where gold goes up in both, severe deflaton and inflation, political and economic instabiliity. It has a fear factor and as such is a good communicator.  

The only explanation for the price action of the last 6 months is, nobody wants it. Yet we are assailed with reports of Central Banks increasing holdings, Countries repatriating, Increased demand from India and the Far east, U.S. mint suspending silver coins sales due to lack of supply.

Considering such it would seem (to this pea brain anyway)  that attempts to suppress the price of the metals should be meeting with failure. That the demand should overcome these attempts. That Government shell corporations would be trying to buy up all the miners they could. That mining and mergers and aquisitions should be on fire???  Unless the rules of supply and demand no longer apply?

Or as previous post wonders? Is there a massive supply we are not aware off?  How can anyone really know how much physical gold actually exists in the world?

And even if there were a massive unkown amount known only to a few, why would the central banks keep buying if it is not worth at least it's present value. 

I can wrap my head around the idea of worthless paper and manipulated paper markets that create value out of false statistics and thin air.  But I can't wrap my head around everyone buying a scarce commodity and the price continues to go down???

Unless it is one scary prediction of just how far currency is going to fall!

After all if all other values fall enough. Then gold at half the price would still be riches. There is such a thing as relativity isn't there???

Maybe I just ain't smart enough to get it. But the cognitive dissonance is starting to scare me. Maybe I just don't know how to think anymore. Or maybe whats coming is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 09:26 | 3273581 Badabing
Badabing's picture

“And even if there were a massive unknown amount known only to a few, why would the central banks keep buying if it is not worth at least it's present value.”

The way I interpret this statement “and I could be wrong so bare with me”, is you assume the central banks know about a massive unknown amount of gold only known by a few.

I believe for this hypothetical scenario to be true, the few people or the organization that has all that gold would:

1.    Make the rules

2.    Not be loyal to any central bank

3.    Not be loyal to any government

4.    Has total control of the price of gold in relationship to the world reserve currency

5.    Let the gold market exist with a finite amount of gold.

So if gold started to be scooped up at a bargain basement price like in 1999 @ $250 the price would have to be increased to slow it down and use it to equalize the dept between countries.

So to get back on track, Follow in the footsteps of giants buy phyz and sit tight.   

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:58 | 3272793 ptolemy_newit
ptolemy_newit's picture

First a few years (4) of DEFLATION as the world trade wars destroy economies.  then only on the rebound willl Inflation be sevear!  alot of time to buy that gold back.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:12 | 3272310 olto
olto's picture

J C,

"This article is so absurd I don't know how Sprott can spout this nonsense with a straight face."

Yes, you do-----it is his BUSINE$$!!!

But, anyway, you put the question in such a manner----that it was easy to write the above, so thank you for the question that needs to be asked more often------------

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:48 | 3272380 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Yeah I get it's his business, but you'd think there'd be a limit to the nonsense. I've seen him and his cabal of stock boosters "Sprott management" at trade shows giving "talks" and lying is second nature for them. But usually it's along the lines of your girlfriend snoops your phone and finds txts to women you've mysteriously never mentioned before and you shrug it off as business acquaintances.

Lately it seems they've stepped up from semi-plausible bullshit to girlfriend catches you in bed naked with another woman and you say it's yoga practice. At some point you'd think the girlfriend would start to doubt your explanations!

To keep the metaphor going... Sprott's girlfriend here is maybe not the sharpest tool in the shed though, so maybe that helps. I do wonder if these guys take courses. My ability to lie in person is probably a 1/10, Sprott management is off the charts. I've seen them sell shit as shinola to 60 year olds without a hint of guilt.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:54 | 3272403 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

your ability to lie on ZH is 10/10.  Is that you Jeffery Christian?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:22 | 3272835 akarc
akarc's picture

"I do wonder if these guys take courses."

Good salesmen take the same course good psychologists take. The goal is to keep you coming back for more.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:51 | 3272398 new game
new game's picture

worth repeating:fuck sprott and all these self annointed experts and might as well include the msm financial ass clowns that got der havard degrees-more self proclaimed experts and fuck the minions that follow them around like their the  pied piper. point:


that is why we are here, but sprott can spout his book and brag how market savey he is, just sick and tired of their book sales speech anf endless speculations. either you know or you don't!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:46 | 3272522 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

i agree , this stuff just gets the stack=a=lackers all hot and horny. they start oiling the guns and counting the ration packs.  it,s a two way market could go to $10 or $3500 or both.

if it goes through 1520 it will get shalacked . stackers will say great more stackin. but what if your wrong and you've missed something. hey maybe i'm wrong and it goes straight up from here. good luck all

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:50 | 3272396 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I´ll go further and say neo-documentarist.  He, as well as many others, have done the research, gathered the facts, and voiced alarm...some for years already.  Harvey Organ, for one, is showing what is going on over at the COMEX on a daily basis for years now, and based on what he has observed, he has come to the conclusion that GLD and SLV are outright frauds.  His blog is worth the daily visit.

Of late, the bankers have been raiding gold and silver on an almost daily basis, yet despite the raids, OI, especially in silver, continues to rise. These actions just oozes desperation.

What Sprott says is far from new news, but the relevancy is more acute that ever before. 



Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:32 | 3272491 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

As far as why western powers would willingly sell their gold, I could venture that:

1. It's fake gold/some level of fraud involved

2. They intend to steal back everything

3. Someone has them so by the balls that their very existence is gone if they don't hand it over.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:24 | 3272593 putaipan
putaipan's picture

4. and this is added as a sincere question or subset 2.b.-.... TPTB are behind china's central banks just as much as everywhere else. i mean it's not like they are iran or the country formerly known as libya.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:46 | 3272889 akarc
akarc's picture

Chinas U.S. Paper?

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 02:18 | 3273283 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

4.  They have additional gold supplies from somewhere else (or not counted in the global gold estimated inventory) 


What would totally fuck China and India is if they announce a nice gold backed currency, and the US then produces a nice 10km asteroid that happens to be gold / PGM bearing and drops the price.  (Not an impossibility either) 



Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:03 | 3272659 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Fiction, non-fiction, it doesn't matter.

What matters is that the market is moving against the fundamentals, and it can do that for a very long time. I need someone to tell me how long?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:15 | 3272697 Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

The post is very poorly supported. I think there are many reasons that can sustain a growing trend in the price of Gold, however, in this post, it says nothing about this.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:52 | 3272782 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

True horror is knowing the real truth and not having the ability to do anything about it.

It's like watching a train wreck.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:05 | 3272422 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Here's a fiction for you. This is Ben Bernanke's speech about monetary policy in 2002. Nearly any paragraph from it is worthy of ridicule but this is worthy of a hangman's noose. That people aren't marching in the streets over this is an indication of the success of their (Govt/banker's) con. Try reading and absorbing the first paragraph and see if you are not repelled by the second. I advise that you read the first para twice before reading the second. Tie the two together. If you are not ready to hang the destroyers of the nation's wealth and worker's hard won savings by the time you finish absorbing this, then you are essentially brain-dead or taking large doses of hopium. The enemy is within. They have taken control of the bridge:


"Today an ounce of gold sells for $300, more or less. Now suppose that a modern alchemist solves his subject's oldest problem by finding a way to produce unlimited amounts of new gold at essentially no cost. Moreover, his invention is widely publicized and scientifically verified, and he announces his intention to begin massive production of gold within days. What would happen to the price of gold? Presumably, the potentially unlimited supply of cheap gold would cause the market price of gold to plummet. Indeed, if the market for gold is to any degree efficient, the price of gold would collapse immediately after the announcement of the invention, before the alchemist had produced and marketed a single ounce of yellow metal.

What has this got to do with monetary policy? Like gold, U.S. dollars have value only to the extent that they are strictly limited in supply. But the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation."



Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:35 | 3272744 BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

No more so than Bernanke, Mishkin, Gartman, Soros, etc, etc. They all talk their book. Period. General public is left to make their own decisions. So lets get to it. Healthcare has increased at 9% compounded since 1996. College education increased at 6% compounded in last twelve years. Utilities, well you tell me. Food, continues to increase unless you are buying whatever the hell it is in Fed's basket of what the "little people" eat. People who go broke (banks maybe?) disappear without anyone ever having to recognize a loss. Countries that borrow money borrow it from: themselves? WTF don't you see here? This is insanity. How the hell can you possibly criticize anyone that believes in gold as a store of wealth? Could they be wrong? Sure. But if you step back, look what is going on, please give us some thoughts on a better alternative.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:47 | 3272762 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

Try reading "When Money Dies" by Adam Fergusson.  You'll see this all went down before in 1920~1924.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:43 | 3272130 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Soros is out, trendlines broken... no time for shaky hands.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:45 | 3272136 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I only regret my shaky hands when I'm out boating...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:02 | 3272166 espirit
espirit's picture

Lotsa water in and around them thar parts.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:55 | 3272155 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Haven't sold a single ounce of physical gold or siliver in over five years. Don't plan on it anytime soon either.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:07 | 3272433 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Same here.  Converted more fiat to Phyzz over the weekend.  The banksters can continue raiding, but the lower the price, the more phyzz is being snatched up.  The weak hands are all but gone.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:20 | 3272452 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Soros sells GLD, that's right, out of paper gold. Guess what he's rotating into?


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:41 | 3272508 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

A hover-round?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:44 | 3272135 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Au revoir now means you won't be seeing your gold again...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:11 | 3272182 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

And Ag, too, bitchez!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:34 | 3272115 Confundido
Confundido's picture

Nothing new here. Can someone tell me what will prevent central banks from further expanding fiat gold? That's the key question.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:05 | 3272212 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture


will prevent central banks from further expanding fiat gold?

but it will stop when they can no longer meet or make deliveries.  for now, there is still gold to be stolen in middle east, i.e. iran, and the hofjuden have their eye on it already, so selling fiat gold paper will continue for years

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:01 | 3272418 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Do you think that regular people, 98% of whom own zero gold whatsoever, will care if SLV and GLD and the other ETF's go under in a cloud of criminal charges? Do you think the governments will attempt to charge their banker owners? 

The People transact their business in paper and will change over to bits if required, AS LONG AS THEY ARE ALLOWED TO KEEP THEIR STUFF. With the elimination of alternative value instruments to conduct trade, the west will do what they are told or resort to barter- which is to say, the same as condemning yourselves to baseline living. 

Governments will then seize gold or make it illegal to hold. With gold and silver mainly in the hands of ultra authoritative governments (ones controlled by the same bankers), the Elites can then dictate wage levels, work conditions and tax rates. 

Considering the excess labor in the world (see the CIA global reports), they have control over who lives and who dies. Barring someone having a very unique skill set, slavery can be brought out into the open. 

Markets as we have understood them NO LONGER EXIST. To think in terms of alternative value instruments is to think we still have freedom or choices. When all the world is under their thumb, there is no where to run. 

Now, if I'm wrong and I don't think I am ( and my research imbues me with some confidence in this), then gold and silver could be useful in black market operations only and then, only if black markets are allowed to exist- which may also be a false hope. 

We may be facing the barrel of a gun moment in the near future and it won't be pretty.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:11 | 3272439 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

How do you sieze gold and silver that have been lost in countless boating accidents?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:27 | 3272482 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I've had as many boating accidents as the next guy, but we have to stop being manipulated by ALL SIDES. We have to look at what is happening. Look at this from economic theory and market behavior. How do you justify the value of gold and silver in the face of trillions in debasement from all major central banks?

Do you think people are stupid? Major holders of private capital and wealth? Would not people like Sprott avail themselves of the judicial systems to prove manipulation? Sprott is a billionaire, he has the deep pockets to force the issue into the open. Instead, he writes about the coming movements in metals as HE PROFITS FROM THE INVESTMENT OF PEOPLE IN HIS INSTRUMENTS. 

Remember the golden rule of investment: you make money by using other people's money. 

Finally, if your gold and silver are marginalized through criminal covenants, its' value will be reduced. Ultimately, holding gold and silver may be a bet on revolution. The Rothschild's don't let people prosper without taking a cut , a big cut.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:21 | 3272588 delacroix
delacroix's picture

maybe sprott doesn't want to go the martin armstrong route

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:37 | 3272116 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

To Germany: The check is in the mail & the dog ate my homework...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:41 | 3272121 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture


If the Fed is in fact supplying the market then it is disgorging someones elses gold.

It sure isn't mine!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:53 | 3272270 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

it sure isnt hugo chavez' gold either!

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 10:09 | 3273720 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

I know it sounds crazy, but it is possible the Fed is selling to the Chinese gold which was previously leased from the Chinese.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:45 | 3272137 akak
akak's picture

And SLV and GLD are fully backed by unencumbered, unrehypothecated physical metal.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:50 | 3272144 CH1
CH1's picture

And SLV and GLD are fully backed by unencumbered, unrehypothecated physical metal.

LOL... of course they are!

Would Wall Street execs lie?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:04 | 3272165 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

That subway line that passes directly by the vault under 60 Victoria Embankment [on the Thames] is still CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC on Sundays, right?... Just checking...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:04 | 3272248 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

The problem with Germany, et.el., is that they borrowed?, collateralizing their gold. Whereas, the sovereign CB's are now on... and have been for a long time-- the FRB's, honey-bucket serial 'blackMaul'd list`er'?!

Ref:  archive @ TD's ZeroHedge__ 6/12/11 [00.25-0400] '$600Bn. Bailout of Foreign Banks

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:50 | 3272267 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

The check is in the mail & the dog ate my homework...and yes my Mercedes is paid for, and I promise I won't cum in your mouth

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:39 | 3272120 logicalman
logicalman's picture

One ounce gold Canadian Maple Leaf

1600 rectangles of printed paper

String of ones and zeros on a banks computer hard drive.

Which would you choose?


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:40 | 3272124 Silver Garbage Man
Silver Garbage Man's picture

I would not take $100 an ounce for my silver if I could not replace it. This thing is going to blow and there is no better place to be in my opinion than physical silver.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:40 | 3272242 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

Every single person I know is stacking silver coins.

They are smaller denomination than Gold coins and more easily acquired.

People of modest means can get on board.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:39 | 3272372 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

+1 -
That's great, are you in any way responsible for that?
If so, I'd love to know your secret power of persuasion. Most everyone I know thinks I'm crazy for stacking. Where (in general) are you located?

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 10:29 | 3273784 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Just WTF constitutes PAPER GOLD?,and how does one add it to actual bullion reserves or sales,since in reality it does not exist?.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:55 | 3272131 The Heart
The Heart's picture
E-Mails Imply JPMorgan Knew Some Mortgage Deals Were Bad:

"Rather than disclosing the full extent of problems like fraudulent home appraisals and overextended borrowers, the bank adjusted the critical reviews, according to documents filed early Tuesday in federal court in Manhattan. As a result, the mortgages, which JPMorgan bundled into complex securities, appeared healthier, making the deals more appealing to investors."

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:43 | 3272132 akak
akak's picture
Is the West Dishoarding Its Sovereign Treasure?


Does a gold bear shit on GATA?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:43 | 3272133 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Mr. Sprott!  Please step away from the hot tub, I repeat please stay away from the hot tub.  And while your at it stay away from scizophrenics claiming to be Holden Cauldfield.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:48 | 3272142 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Anyone (still) holding "paper" gotta 2b nuts!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:55 | 3272153 PUD
PUD's picture

You can't eat silver or gold. They will confiscate it, tax you out of it, render it useless except for a crown on your #31 molar. How so many of you can cling to this fantasy that a mineral is your guarantee to safe passage when the shit hits the fan is beyond me.

It's as mindless as you ammo many gunfights do you think you're likely to win?

Your bunker might allow you to hold out longer than most but you will have to sleep and you will someday have to emerge....I doubt you'll like what you emerge into and I doubt your shiny coins will bring you much when you do.

I think you all watch too many fantasy video games.

When the system collapses you would be better off crunching down on a cyanide pill 

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 16:59 | 3272159 akak
akak's picture


When the system collapses you would be better off crunching down on a cyanide pill

You first.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:03 | 3272168 PUD
PUD's picture

When it comes to that, I will.  i don't harbor any false illusions about what the world will be like or the possible nightmare scenarios that could unfold. Unlike you fools though, I accept it and have no notion of being the sole survivors climbing out of your dens with fists full of shiny coins thinking you'll inherit what's left.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:12 | 3272176 akak
akak's picture

You are a complete putz and an ignorant fool of the first order.

Has it ever occurred to your historically clueless, government-induced hysteria-raddled mind that there are alternative outcomes (an infinity of them, in fact), not only realistic but almost infinitely more PROBABLE alternative outcomes, between the indefinite continuation of the current status-quo and the total collapse of civilization?  Literally HUNDREDS if not thousands of societies have experienced financial and economic upheaval, monetary collapse, and hyperinflation, and yet I fail to find almost any examples of any which have thereupon regressed to roaming hordes of brain-craving cannibalistic zombies.

Your specious strawman mischaracterization and denigration of those who, unlike you, have enough spine, foresight and courage to attempt to prepare for inevitable bad times to come rather speaks for itself.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:28 | 3272206 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "It's as mindless as you ammo many gunfights do you think you're likely to win?"


Why don't you come on by & add yourself to the stat&probability sheet... Jumpin Jack Flash it's a gas gas gas...

[REWARD suprise ending there ~ if you take the time]




Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:28 | 3272215 PUD
PUD's picture

you don't know what you're talking about. you can't prepare for that which you can't conceive. we're not talking losing power for a couple of days dude.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:05 | 3272300 css1971
css1971's picture

Wow, you swallowed the banker's "we are gods", "masters of the universe" thing hook line and sinker, didn't you.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:06 | 3272430 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Please Akak, don't try and talk the Pud out of swallowing his cyanide pill.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:22 | 3272462 akak
akak's picture

OK, that was my first literal "LOL" of the day here!

Well done!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:35 | 3272494 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Please Akak, don't try and talk the Pud out of swallowing his cyanide pill.

Better still, convince him that it is a cyanide suppository.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 21:53 | 3272783 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

A supporting comment: Argentina (no pun intended).  The majority of the population lived through  Sarajevo:  The majority of people lived. .  I could go on and on.  I know it is scary.  Use your fear as motivation and to focus the mind.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:24 | 3272207 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

Small colonies will survive, not individuals....

Like minded people that are mentally strong and can work together.

Probably won't be any Pizza takeout.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:37 | 3272234 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Oh yes there will be... Only difference... I'll be the 'pizzaiolo' & my house & oven will be the 'HUT'...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:58 | 3272282 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Yup, yup, yup!  Just for grins, I did an Excel Sim recently, that had a grid of skills and number of people per skill. 

At the low end, I figured you need about a 12-15 families to cover the skill spectrum in medical sciences, natural sciences and skilled trades.  With an average of 3.5 kids/fam.  That adds up to about 60-80 people for starters.  To have better semblance of a civilized community with full range of skills & services, you need to increase the head count and skills to a total of 600-1000 people.  In other words, you need a village of hand-picked (group-vetted) people to restart from scratch and rebuild a place where you actually want to live, rather than hide out (miserable, lonely or angry) in a micro-world "according to me". 

BTW, the model has NO bankers, lawyers, analysts, brokers, financial advisers, CPAs, or Talking Heads in PR, Media or Politics!  Also, secular Renaissance people with real skills and creative ideas count for more than... monotheistic ideologues, re-selling ancient 'vapor-ware'.  If you get my meaning.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:05 | 3272299 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Helps to have a fortress [or the geographical & geological means for building one]... Oddly ~ that's where Europe, Asia, & ROW in general have some advantages over North America... TIME TO BUILD...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:16 | 3272319 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

Yes sir, I'm a Machinist/fabricator/welder/inventor. I work for all the area farmers and a huge Amish presence and I barter for chickens, potatoes, vegetables, etc... one farmer even makes beer(yum)

We have all talked about it, we feel we can barter/sell/trade roughly no further than 5 miles from our area.

You would be surprised how much farmers know about the position this world is in, they're very smart people.

I'm not going anywhere. I'm just a cog in all this.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:58 | 3272919 akarc
akarc's picture

You left out people trained in the art of war. You will need them. No group functions w/o politics.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:01 | 3272290 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Probably won't be any Pizza takeout."

If there's no pizza takeout then forget the whole thing, I'm done.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:35 | 3272228 Haole
Haole's picture

There is no place in our collective future for people that give-up so easily. If/when you feel it necessary to take your self-inflicted exit from this life, it will give those left just that much more of a chance. I can suggest however, that a smart, somewhat enlightened and capable person suiciding one's self is an unadvisable solution to anything in this life and beyond to say the least. It's your soul though...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:51 | 3272268 PUD
PUD's picture

There's no such thing as a soul and you seem to not understand that some situations are not worth suffering through only to meet the same inevitable result.

i would not give up like some hapless sheep sir but I would not care to live in a world that knows only suffering and deprivation

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:00 | 3272285 akak
akak's picture

And YOU seem unable to understand that the end of the current economic/financial/monetary paradigm, like the end of all such paradigms in the past, is in no way equivalent to the end of the world, or even the end of civilization.  But since the banksters use such threats and propaganda in the attempt to prolong and maintain that current paradigm, you in your complete historical ignorance blindly and gullibly fall for their self-serving lies and hysterically overblown rhetoric.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:07 | 3272303 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "I would not care to live in a world that knows only suffering and deprivation"


Might as well change your avatar to a kitten...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:23 | 3272330 akak
akak's picture

Given his apparent and self-imposed helplessness, lack of spine, and willingness to drift in the currents of higher forces while making no attempt to take an active role in where he ends up, I suggest changing his avatar to a jellyfish would be more in order.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:24 | 3272342 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

AK ~ a jellyfish, at least, could sting the shit out of you... This motherfucker thinks he can MEOW you to death...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:31 | 3272355 akak
akak's picture

He reminds me of the Mayan sacrificial victims who were forced, before having their beating hearts ripped out of their chests, to play a ritualized game against obsidian-spear-wielding warriors armed only with a feather.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:27 | 3272479 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

eh well ~ It worked on the Nintendo game anyway...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:26 | 3272473 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Ah, ah, US citizen duplicity being now manifestering bulbously.

Wonders how you two 'americans' learn somehow of Crispy Lotus Bloom Kitten new menu item at JKC* preparingedness being with kitten flanks and jellyfish made.

Evertheneverless, gourmet culinary innovatations contains in the lemon garlic sauce practises it lavishly. So doing now you instead that thinking 'americanism' has prevailing, but actually, that is not that, for put them level-plain as the things that happened.

A bit too well for the taste of many your accomplishmentation now exists as uncompensated promotings of JKC menu improvings firmly dangdang.


*JKC (Just Killed Cat) being much successful Chinese citizenism fastfood franchise prosperously.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 19:55 | 3272532 akak
akak's picture

Thanks to you, FourthStooge-ing, my screen is now splattered with chewed pasta, ejectulated from my US 'american' mouth much vigourous doing resulting of uncontrolled laughter in the make firmly of humor dangdang.

Damn your uncanny channeling of the mind (and I use the word very loosely) of AnAnonymous!

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:28 | 3272601 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture


Make me blob up many tears of us citizenism laughter!


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:35 | 3272616 delacroix
delacroix's picture

pud, is your avatar a baboon skullfucking a little bald white guy? if not maybe I need better glasses

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:31 | 3272351 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Extremely well said Akak. I want you on my team.

Some wilt in the heat, you shine... like silver.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:39 | 3272370 akak
akak's picture

Thanks ABR.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 22:50 | 3272892 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

Funny how they simutaneously convince us that without them we have total collapse and also that those against their agenda are weirdos who spend their time preparing for total collapse.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:03 | 3272296 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

you have bigger issues than worrying about the end of the world.....

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:25 | 3272596 delacroix
delacroix's picture

homicide before suicide

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:05 | 3272172 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

We are not likely to see a zombie driven bunker collapse. But if Congress cannot trim $85 billion off a $1.2 trillion deficit, we will see the US dollar weaken a great deal further. With PM's you know that you will preserve your purchasing power in every currency. There is nothing else that can do that.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:08 | 3272304 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Gold yes, the rest unlikely.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:06 | 3272173 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You haven't thought it through.  Stay here and get educated.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:13 | 3272185 PUD
PUD's picture

Oh I've thought it through all right. A systemic collapse of the global financial system equals outcomes direct from the sickest minds in hollywood. All trade stops. Unemployment rockets. Poverty and desperation rules. Martial law. Uprisings. Shops empty of food in 3 days. Anarchy on a global scale.

What will you do when you get an infection? Swap gold for antibiotics?

What will you do when your food runs out? Your fuel, your water? Swap a shiny coin for the last can of spam?

I think not.

Do I know how it all plays out? Of course one could unfold in a limitless number of ways with very few of them being good.

How about when the workers at the nuclear power plants all go home to care for their own? Will you use your gold coins for shielding from the radiation clouds?

It is you who fail to think through what may come not me.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:25 | 3272205 akak
akak's picture

PUD apparently is a fervent disciple of Bernanke the XIV:

"Apres les banksters, le deluge".


Washington and Wall Street propaganda has certainly not been wasted on you.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:28 | 3272213 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

Sounds like you're long vibrators and blow with intentions of going out like that cat who was the leader singer of INXS.

Me... I'm gonna trade some of my gold at some point for 100 acres of farmland and live to fight another day.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:29 | 3272220 PUD
PUD's picture

Sure you are skippy. You and your mule and plow?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:48 | 3272260 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You seem to believe that the outcome will be a permanent "Mad Max" scenario.  Given that you may be right, but that outcome is very unlikely.  And the most likely precipitator of that scenario is an immediate nuclear wipe-out.  In that case no preparation is necessary.

Mon, 02/25/2013 - 00:35 | 3273130 joego1
joego1's picture

Gold is just part of the equation obviously you need to have other stuff. The idea is not to expect much from your local 7-11. I see something in between full colapse and a retarded economy with high inflation. For example I'm looking forward to paying my property tax bill by trading in "a single once of silver. I'm already growing a lot of my own food.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:20 | 3272195 PUD
PUD's picture

And if "you" thought it through you would realize that you and your brothers are engaged in nothing but speculation just like all the other wall st minded. Betting on one of the casino games in the rigged market that produces nothing but momentum for the global system pendulum that swings wider and wilder every day. You're just one cog in the same damn machine you all condemn

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:30 | 3272218 akak
akak's picture

When one lives in a hurricane-prone area, and storm clouds gather on the horizon, and satellite images show a major storm heading in your direction, is it "speculation" to board up the windows and head for higher ground?

The turbid and seemingly limitless depths of your idiocy continue to amaze me.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:32 | 3272226 PUD
PUD's picture

A hurricane comes and goes. It affects a limited area and a finite number of people and systems. How about a serious sized asteroid hitting anywhere on earth? You prepared for that? A systemic collapse would be worse than a comet strike. At least it's over quickly with the visitor from space

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:54 | 3272274 akak
akak's picture

So even the fact that a hurricane is clearly heading in your direction would not prompt you to take any measures to save yourself from the coming storm because an asteroid MIGHT (with incredibly low probability) meanwhile hit the earth and extinguish all life?

Wow, that is one derailed train of logic you're riding, buddy.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:16 | 3272318 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Dude, have you ever heard of the saying:  "Arguing with a fool is a bit like mud-wrestling with a pig.  After a while you realize that the pig is enjoying himself."

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 18:24 | 3272341 akak
akak's picture

True, but after the mud-wrestling comes the abbatoir.


Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:38 | 3272621 delacroix
delacroix's picture

you're right pud. don't buy any green bananas

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:11 | 3272571 Crabshacker
Crabshacker's picture

Well then, I say kill yourself now before somebody does it for you...

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:27 | 3272193 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

Well, thank you for telling us what YOU would do.  The end of Western world financial dominance is a good thing.  It has had to become so corrupt to extend its existence, requires massive resources to sustain and a disassociation that appears disturbingly close to insanity. 

The liberation potential of giving up on a dying system can be immense.  I intend to be a part of that; however, I am also convinced that the transition will be so intense; the emotional unwillingness of people like you to let go, that there will be a need to stand up to those that would otherwise see the future so bleak as to take a cyanide pill or further extend the current consumptive paradigm.

It sounds to me like you need to work on the concept of personal sovereignty.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:43 | 3272246 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

Sounds to me like PUD is vitamin D deficient. PUD, buy a bottle of vitimin D, take some, in a few days you won't be so glum. It is not expensive and it is very low risk.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:46 | 3272256 akak
akak's picture

Unfortunately, vitamins can't fix stupid.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 20:41 | 3272627 delacroix
delacroix's picture

would it be illegal to sell cyanide pills?

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 23:20 | 3272956 akak
akak's picture

Not if they are consumed on the premises.

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:19 | 3272196 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

We shall see.

80% of Americans would never survive a prolonged conflict anyways.

We're buckling under our own weight.

Fail to prepare at your own peril.



Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:37 | 3272237 PUD
PUD's picture

True enough but tell me what you and the 20% are going to wake up to

Sun, 02/24/2013 - 17:48 | 3272261 Bingfa
Bingfa's picture

I never said it was going to be easy, just doable.

Everyone should be looking around right now and surrounding themselves with strong people that bring something to the table.

It's going to be mental.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!