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Santelli: "What If The Fed Did Less?"
The prevalence of counter-factuals or 'coulda-shoulda-woulda's in mainstream economics is stunningly biased to explaining "why we're still in the doldrums outside of course of the stock market." As CNBC's Rick Santelli exclaims, we are told at every turn that if we just do more - more stimulus, more monetization, more bailouts - then the recovery would have been better by now and will be in the future. In his typically calm and stoic fashion, the igneous Illinoisan asks, rhetorically, "What if the Fed had done less?" His answer - rather obviously - is that everything would have been different (but not necessarily worse). In a little under 3 minutes, Rick explains why "the Federal Reserve has done nothing but keep politicians from having to do anything."
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Even the evil fuckers who came up with the idea of the Federal Reserve didn't expect Congress to ever so willingly cede to them every last shred of responsibility for economic policy they ever had. Truly unbelievable. Why do we even have a Congress at this point? All they do is hand over their power to others.
I don't know. Woodrow Wilson, the man who signed into law the Federal Reserve and Income Tax feared he had destoryed America.
Smarty pants Woodrow Wilson... I have no pity for him rotting away down there in the hot place.
"Why do we even have a Congress at this point?"
~~~
That's easy... So the 'families' who own the Fed can make more money...
As soon as the Fed was established we started taking on debt on a GRAND scale, starting with:
- WWI
- WW2
- Korea
- The Cold War
- Vietnam
- Johnson's GREAT SOCIETY
- now, the 'War on Terror', all the Bailouts, and, soon to be, SICKCARE
- might as well fatten up Congresscritter salaries and any other Federal pensions you can think of along the way... Plus ~ I guess we'll need a few of them to approve the DEATH STAR...
@redpill: We have congress, representatives and a president because although the Founders wanted a country as free as possible they themselves still wanted the RESPONSIBILITY of the inalienable rights. The next step of the Enlightenment Age is for the People to directly have inalienable responsibility to inalienable rights. Delegating responsibilities away by voting (thus siphoning power away) will be something of the past. Self-representation will be the future. Each person is their own Representative. A country's government will reflect 100% on how her People govern themselves.
Gotta love Santelli...I watch him on my Macbook and by the time he's done the temperature has gone op 30 degrees and it feels like its going to explode!
Hate to troll bomb - I'm really a nice guy - you could ask my friends, if I had any....
OK, I want to agree with Rick Santelli. His positions are fundamental to understanding how markets and economies work best without interference, without crony capitalism, without moral hazards, without artificial ceilings, floors and money. The weak and dumb are weeded out, the strong survive and flourish.
I just can't get there this time. Falling wages due to globalization, shrunken mfg sector/supply chains due to China, collapsed housing prices, demographically-driven (aging) demand declines, extreme overbuilding, similar economic circumstances in all non-commodity based developed economies, not isolated to just here. A 30s style depression, not a run-of-the-mill business cycle recession. It was 20-30 years in the making. It will take more than a single purge to fix.
One of the differences between a recession and depression in my view: In a recession the weak get taken out; in a depression the weak and many of the strong go out, leaving permanent scars and a weakened economy.
I believe too many good assets, companies, technologies would have been permanently destroyed had not the govt. deficit spent (they should have used the $$ better without doubt) and had not Bernanke opened the printing presses.
There is a time when Rick Santelli is absolutely correct and that is most of the time. But there are those rare occasions when the conditions are truly different and the common sense solutions that normally work, won't.
I suspect that eventually economists will conclude that a root cause of our mess stems from the economic manipulations of China. Nearly 1.4 billion people, nearly 1 billion in their labor force. China is following Japan's mercantile policies from prior decades with one difference; China is 10X larger. They have simply grabbed up too much, too fast of the economies of developed nations and they have responded too slow in developing domestic demand to offset and balance their own economy.
Further technology advances allowed for an accelerated rate of economic transfer to occur. China also benefitted from a technology base in Taiwan and a financial base in Hong Kong.
JMOs
Its much more simple. Too many people buying crap they could not afford with money they did not have being loaned to them by people who faked the money in the first place Making themselves incredibly rich and powerful in the process and virtually dominating political power that might have had a chance to stop them. Put a bandaid on that.
Agreed and with still over easy credit the same continues on and on. The mindset of entitlement has to fall away and another more self regulated one, governed by old fashioned and adult behavior take its place. Do I think that this will happen on it's own? More like that Mel Gibson will become normal before this comes about.
Good post/reply. I think that Santelli has dropped the ball on this particular counterfactual and I'm quite surprised. Given all we know after the fact for him to posit that the FED should have done less or almost nothing and just allow the (forrest) fire of the century to burn its way out on its own, sounds ridiculous and wreckless. Were the FED and Treasury to have done nothing to save the collapse of Wall Street banks/brokerage company's, I now believe that the implosion would have been a collapse that the entire global financial services industry would not have survived. It would all have fallen into a black hole and the artificial connections would have fallen apart. We forget because it's so predominant, how interconnected our planet is. It is easy to suggest that nature will heal on its own and that real forrest fires are supposed to be good for the long term health of the econsystem of a forrest. Not the same with humans and aggressive, deep and wide economic collapses. Humans have a great need for the obvious: reliable sources of food, fuel, medical care and fresh water. Have a system implode and you'll have mass anarchy in days, no matter what country and even more so in the gun capital of the world (USA). So, I think that Rick got this wrong. I do not know if the FED has been correct in all that it has done and I don't think I'll live a long enough life for some genius to publish his PhD thesis on an answer. I do know that in America that the Obama administration has taken a hands off approach to holding the masters of the disaster accountable. Watch the PBS Frontline documentary "Untouchables".....it says it all.
To continue yer analogy: Obamatron and Congress have let the dead wood sit there in a pile, while the Fed pours more tinder and other combustibles on the pile. Who's got a match?
Oh heck, this goes back way before Obama joined Congress. The US has been living way beyond it's means for decades. It worked for them when they went into debt during WW2 but at some point, don't know when, maybe post-Vietnam, the debt started to become cancerous. Now, God help them, I have no idea how the country will ever deal with it in the near future.
This book came out in 1988 and was an early warning that no one took seriously.
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Our-Means-Borrowing-Threatens/dp/0394758161
I should take my copy down off the shelf and re-read.
Get a windows 8 PC. I starts off running hot, so you'll hardly notice the increase in core temp when Santelli's on.
If you really think about it, it seems as though England conqured us again back in ol' 1913. And the proof? We have been fighting all their wars. Even Vietnam was just a continuation of the opium wars.
Fed money and war leave the rest of us poor.
I love how all of these guys like Wilson and Eisenhower and Churchill and even Sandy fuckin' Weill get all contrite on their political and actual deathbeds.....you know, years after the damage has been done (and beds full of pussy won).
Wilson was contrite right after signing the bill into law. He knew he was fucking his country over yet did it anyways. That is the worst kind of traitor.
No, they knew that one day the Fed would have total control, but it would take time, and the gefiltefishes running the cartel would have to be patient. Every catastrophe that the Fed helped to create made the Fed stronger and stronger. Rome wasn't built in a day.
The Financial Elites are patient. One hundred years is of no consequence. The Rothschild are European financial Elites and have been for at least four hundred years.
Do 'they' care if America fails, succeeds, lasts till 2013, 2113 or longer? No. They will keep getting richer regardless. All they needed to do after 1913 was keep quiet and wait. The Global financial System is designed to funnel money to the European elites. At least the western money. I can't be bothered to determine if 'they' are scamming China. Other than all the fiat currencies (promises to pay what exactly?) China has collected in exchange for actual stuff.
At this stage all 'they' care about is 'their' position. Money has meant nothing to 'them' since the start of the 20th century. 'They' just wish to retain their influence and power. perhaps, more importantly 'their' heads! They will keep quiet until the oil runs out. (I've said too much.)
By 'they' I clearly mean the 'Llizard people' as revealed by David Icke. Not the Rothschilds, obviously. Many Americans have told me, quite aggressively, that the Rothschilds have no interests in America. Who am I to disagree?
Please be aware that I make all this shit up. Especially any statistics. I have a job and I am not paid $124,000 for each 'report' I fabricate.
I could sort all this lot out, if you allowed me to but 'they' would make me a better offer. Who wants to be Emperor of Earth anyway! You are all whinging pussies, no wonder God never calls in. lol
: "By 'they' I clearly mean the 'Llizard people' as revealed by David Icke"
Are you talking about the Alpha Draconians, or their offspring, the Reptilians? Or, the Reptilian’s offspring, the Reptoids? Did you know the blood type of the Basque people of Northern France is Rh - ? That is the same blood type of the Reptoids.
How about the fuckfed do less stealing and ass raping?
"What if the Fed had done less?"
Rick does not see the forest for the trees. The Fed was put in that position to sustain the system as long as possible, the Fed not was put in that position to stop the collapse, as that is impossible, as one would need unlimited power.
Whether he does or not is beside the point, CNBC is calling the shots here. His script has a pretty limited number of lines. Just enough red meat to keep agitated investors watching the channel.
Maybe so, but at the end of the day he is complaining about the symptom instead of the problem.
At some point, the walking unfunded liabilities will have to be liquidated off the balance sheet, of course I would not be surprised by a 50-70 year liquidation process this time. Last time was only about 20-25 years or so, depending on how you measure it.
How many views does CNBC get from Santelli distribution here on ZH?
Personally, the only time I watch CNBC is when there is a Santelli clip on ZH or other reputable finacial website...
Mandy Drury could change all that by going topless...
+1
Look! I got junked!... Sorry Becky ~ I guess your bee stings would do in a pinch...
Mandy is a troll.
Jackie DeAngelis or Kelly Evans are a different game altogether.
I like Rick but I don't need to watch his vids anymore, unfortunately it's just the SSDD.
I'm just saying.
I do notice they don't put Rick on with Lies-Man anymore after Rick dropped trow' and skull-f'd Lies-Man on live TV, from the floor of the exchange. So I no longer have any need to watch Rick. I can just read KWN pre-options expiry when I'm down in the dumps and need tits and gold.
If he gets into it with Liesman again I'll watch the clip for sure just for the entertainment factor. Last few times I've seen him it's just been opposite some pursed-lipped host with a blank expression waiting for him to finish his rant so they can ask their next puppet guest what today's "hot stock picks" are. It's like watching someone bang their face against the sidewalk in front of a crowd of blind people and wondering why they aren't getting a reaction.
Santelli liked the corporate bailout and the backing of accounts by the Fed. That's half-hearted and a cop-out.
Rick ain't my hero no more. Remember the original rant about how the lazy-assed homeowner taking out re-fi funds to go on vacation? That's where the money was SUPPOSED to go, but didn't. It only bailed out the banks. So, his original rant was based on a lie and he fell for it. I hesitate to say it, but he has become just a shill for the status quo. Sorry if I stepped on a couple of toes here, but ANY support for what the Fed does is not justified. He liked it when the Fed saved HIS bacon.
If toes were stepped on by this, to heck with them.
"If toes were stepped on by this, fuck 'em."
Fixed
True. The Fed has the power to keep the Ponzi scheme going on and on, and that's what it is doing. Rick has a very vivid imagination.
The Fed game most certainly has an end point. How long that will take is anyone's guess but it is getting closer with each new $85 billion dollar monthly print. There are so many dollars all over the world that it will only take a single spark to set off the hyper inflationary spiral.
What and when that spark occur is anyones guess. I had thought a decade off until recently. Now I think less than that.
The world financial system would have collapsed. The US would have looked like the Soviet Union about 20 years ago. Now the US looks like the Soviet Union about 90 years ago with the Reds in power preparing to purge the resistant populace to the Gulags. Sigh....
Thanks to ZH, I now find nothing shocking or enlightening in Rick's comments. Glad there's somebody out there shouting it to the CNBC drones, though. Who knows? Maybe he'll reach somebody who wouldn't have been reached otherwise.
You know he reads ZH, too. Could never admit it, but you just KNOW he does.
Hi, Rick. Keep up the good work.
He does read ZH.Admitted itn on air about a year ago.
So does he posts comments?
Out of the closet Rick,whoever you are ?
Why do you think CNBC got sold recently?
Incredible hind site as usual Dick
"hind site" is that special code for deer slaughterhouse?
Hind sight is when you try to see out from having your head up in yo ass. Turn your brown eye to poo.
That is what banksters do. They bribe politicians to commit treason against the citizens of the United States of America. It wouldn't have worked the other way.
Addict behavior. Dysfunctional government and markets. Enabling.
These things end much more tragically because of the delayed reality.
Rather than the addict jones'ing at $500 in debt and getting arrested for shoplifting - the enabler gives the addict more time to build a greater addiction. Before long they are $50,000 in debt and it is a hostage stand off in a bank with a shootout and dead people.
Now there is an analogy I can understand.
I never let my custys off the leash to accumulate so much debt. My guy would have cut me off for sure.
I was always conservative and had very little bad, uncollected, debt. It was a lot of hands on management, but I made money for my guy and made as much money for myself.
Put myself through University and was always welcome at all the partys.
He got a nice house with all the updates, new kitchen, finished basement, river house. I got a degree.
If the Fed would have done less most of my dad's Jewish friends wouldn't be as happy as they are.
Including Dick Santelli himself...
The Jews are not happy. They believe the Fed could have done even more.
The Jews will never be happy until they have every dime in their pocket.
" Debt is the very essence of fiat. As debt defaults, fiat is destroyed. This is where all these deflationists get their WRONG direction. Not seeing that hyperinflation is the process of saving debt at all costs, even buying it outright for cash. Deflation is impossible in today’s dollar terms because policy will allow the printing of cash, if necessary, to cover every last bit of debt and dumping it on your front lawn! Worthless dollars, of course, but no deflation in dollar terms! " -- FOA
Posted on jsmineset today.
I've had that conversation many times with 'deflationists' & they just don't get it... Not surprisingly ~ most of them will also argue with you when you tell them that the market is RIGGED...
~~~
The worst are the Elliott Wavers...
This is just plain wrong.
When banks create credit from a loan, the two are equal. 1 credit : 1 debt
As debt defaults, the ratio of credit to debt becomes greater than 1:
1 credit : 0.5 debt
When debt is written off, the credit that came with it is NOT also written off. It has already been spent. Someone else owns it. So now you a load of credit out there circulating without debt encumbering it. It can be used to pay off other debt but there is still more credit than debt.
This is what allows the economy to rebound after a downturn. Unencumbered credit.
=> Defaults are inflationary not deflationary.
Good point as far as it goes--but what happens on the lenders side? Without the Fed Ex Machina, the asset (loan receivable) is written down, collateral liquidated, bank reserves tapped and a corresponding 15 to 1 reduction in lending power vs the amount of the loss. Assuming the bank is levered up, it has to call in other loaned money to meet reserve requirements. Deflationary. Now if the Fed buys the worthless asset, the very real levered reduction in money is reduced. Then we are in your scenario--where loans can be defaulted on without deflationary impact. That's the whole idea of QE, I'd say.
A simpler way of looking at it is the old Monopoly game [where one player owns all the property on the board & has double & triple hotels on all of them ~ even though, technically, that's not within the straight rules of Monopoly]...
~~~
The game CONTINUES because the owner of all the property convinces all the other players that they can just run up debts ON ACCOUNT... Hopefully ~ there are attractive female participants in the game, whereby they can begin removing their clothing to pay off debts... Sexual favors follow the removal of all articles of clothing...
The question for SCHOLARS is... Is that inflationary' or 'deflationary'?... I skipped that class at MIT...
You left out the part where the one who ends up with all the property has a color copier and a pair of scissors.
>>Also, in the post above this I meant to say "TARP" rather than QE--TARP bought up bad assets; QE is meant took keep long rates down to support the RE market and of course to monetize the the UST debt and to UST interest cost down.<<
Quick! Go tell Japan about your economic discovery; maybe they can get their two lost decades back!
Oh, the logic!
if the fed had done less, the dow would be 8000 pts lower, s&p would be 800 pts lower, and nasdaq would prob be 1200 points lower
And I would have begun bottom fishing by now.
Too bad. I would have made a mint and employed large numbers of people.
Sweetie pie ... look around ... its killing people now.
Monkey On A String
link died
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000150257
Ben, we're not going to close red today, under 1499, are we, Ben?
BEN?
BENNNNnn?!
Pretty lame from Santelli.
Can Kevin Henry close over 1500 today?
If the Fed did nothing it would be 1934 now; we'd be 5 years into a GDII, which is where we should be.
That would have been the best thing that could have happened to this country: to wring out the excesses, the softness, the obesity, the malingering, the TBTF, the phony accounting, the bailouts, the moral hazard, the protection and assistance of Wall Street thieves and banksters, the inaction in Congress, the political pandering for votes and contributions, the centrally planned nanny state, etc, ad nauseam.
Instead we are floundering like a beached whale, waiting for the final harpoon to put us out of our misery.
We are in a GDII! Wake up! 99% of you either work for the gov't, directly or indirectly, or you get a SNAP card.
50 million on food stamps! 20% real unemployment! You don't call that a depression?
This will only end in a billion people being culled.
it's just a question of : Who will fire first?
I’m talking about a real depression, like the early 1930s, where there are no food stamps or SNAP cards, or welfare, or social security, or Medicare and Medicaid. A relatively “free-market” depression where the chips are allowed to fall where they may, the markets and the economy seek their own level, and the strong survive to pick up the pieces and begin anew.
What we have is a fantasy nanny-world where money grows on trees and people are coddled like babies.
Do you think Santelli is just some kinda regular guy catching a bite and a coffee at the local deli?
Santelli is another mesh to catch the fringe viewers. He is riding Towne Cars to parties up the Upper East Side and clinking champagne glasses with the rest of them; and will do or say nothing to jeopardize that. He is on CNBC so that some of us can get that warm feeling that hey, there is hope out there ...
Paid for the by Kochs:
http://exiledonline.com/tag/rick-santelli/
The upper east side in Chicago is a few hundred yards out into Lake Michigan. Rick rides the UP west line and sometimes has one at John's Buffet (and tavern) in Winfield.
Karl Marx famously concluded that accumulation of debt is accumulation of captial in a capitalistic society. There is no any other ways. Period.
http://oyc.yale.edu/political-science/plsc-118/lecture-10#ch2
Kick it back to Washington? I have a better idea...kick it to the markets and let them clear up the mess. We will get through it a lot quicker.
Long SPY.
Long SPXU.
days like we had today would be more of the norm without the fed. o boy do i wish everyday was like today
"What if the Fed did nothing"
We would still be in a depression. It would just be more entertaining without Benny in the fold.
Maybe we wouldn't be printing $100 billion a month of our kids money,
Um, that's not your kids' money. Or yours. Or even mine.
That's kind of "the trick".
We can all thank Ron Paul for shining light on the evils of the Federal Reserve Cabal many years before it became fashionable. Without 2 successive runs for President and his relentless efforts trying to reign Greenspan and Bernanke in, we may have been led to believe the economic uncertainty we have today is all China's fault (or Russia's, or Japan's, or the Terrorists)
congress should be embarrassed after hearing santelli's diatribe. too bad today's congressmen are so hell bent on keeping their jobs, would never eat humble pie to that extent, and actually do their jobs.
Obama is the president of the board of THE UNITED STATES CORPORATION, part of the CFR family of crime syndicates. It was granted lawful jurisdiction in the United States of America under the war powers acts. The reason we are always at war is because the day we stand down these crooks lose ALL their authority. The FR represents the board of directors. The congress, all of them including especially Ron Paul, are all Judases; read the Constitution. The duties of the President of the United States remain unfulfilled. Eric Holder, Bernanke and Petreaus et al. all get their paychecks from the UN, which is also the CFR. The BATF is chartered under the UN - as a foreign tax collection agency operating outside the laws of the land. They use military ordinance on US soil against defenseless civilians. Politicians are as useless as feathers on a pig. We're on our own. Grow a pair and die well.