Alternative Currency Goes Mainstream As Bitcoin ATMs Emerge

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:34 | 3279283 digitalhermit

By trading with other individuals for fiat anywhere you happen to be. That's what peer-to-peer means!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:45 | 3279343 lemonobrien

i live in silly con valley; where we makes tech for others to consume... i've never met anyone using bitcoin; and, as a programmer, i'll sell the fuck out of a box with encryption algos. fuck, it's open source.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 00:38 | 3280780 zkay

Simply register an account on https://mtgox.com/ and buy/sell to your heart's content. Online wallets are another option. Using Blockchain as an example ( http://blockchain.info/ ), you sign up and can cash out into paypal using their interface. There are many other ways, but these are among the easiest.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:01 | 3279123 XenoFrog

Bitcoin is infested with confidence scams and ponzi schemes. Avoid it like the plague.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:10 | 3279177 overqualified

Fiat money and anything else instead are safe and honest. :-)

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:23 | 3279245 XenoFrog

So as an alternative to the US Dollar you support something that is even less safe and honest?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:46 | 3279611 PowerzThatB

Less safe and honest than the US $? Just spewed coffee outta my nose. Impossible.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:40 | 3279760 XenoFrog

Your bank account is insured by the FDIC. Someone steals it and you will get reimbursed. When you get your bitcoins stolen, cops won't even file a police report.

By the definition of safe, bitcoins are less safe than a US Dollar.

Now this isn't a ringing endorsement of the US Dollar, merely a simple comparison between two fail currencies.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:35 | 3280387 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:25 | 3279254 CH1

Bitcoin is infested with confidence scams and ponzi schemes.

C'mon, don't be girlie, say it: T E R R O R I S T S. That'll scare everyone away for sure!

What complete FUD.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:34 | 3279287 XenoFrog

"Get in now before it's too late to get rich quick" - Every scammer ever.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:38 | 3279310 CH1

"Get in now before it's too late to get rich quick" - Every scammer ever.

LOL... and how many of those idiots use your blessed fiat? Yup, all of them.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:55 | 3279401 XenoFrog

Why must I be a fan of US Fiat in order to see how stupid bitcoins are? Maybe you're so into the digital future that you don't realize that the issue isn't binary.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:08 | 3279445 CH1

Why must I be a fan of US Fiat in order to see how stupid bitcoins are?

Don't have to be, but when you also demand "regulation" and "accountability," I know that you are a statist.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:32 | 3279559 XenoFrog

I didn't demand anything.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:37 | 3280395 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:46 | 3279345 TraderTimm

Yeah, just like Medifast - it started on the OTC Pink Sheets, and now trades on NASDAQ at 26 bucks and change.

26,000% increase - has to be a scam, right?

You mean people who bought medifast at a few pennies are scammers? Or did they see value?

Just because you can't wrap your mind around bitcoin doesn't mean that it is devoid of value.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:57 | 3279406 XenoFrog

All the easily mined coins have already been mined. Telling people to get in now is like saying, "Buy Medifast! It's gone up 26,000% and by our charts it could go up another 26,000% by next year!"

Scam scam scam.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:38 | 3280400 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:07 | 3279448 digitalhermit

LOL

XenoFrog 1995:
This internet is full of hype, steer clear! http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1995/02/26/the-internet-bah.html

XenoFrog 1908:
Stay away from horseless carriages. I heard a story about man that drove his carriage into a ditch, wrecking the vehicle. He said he'd never bothered to learn how the carriage operated in the first place or how to steer it but that's not the point. The carriages are unsafe and people should stick to what we know.

XenoFrog 500,000 BC:
This fire bad. Burn. Hurt. No want.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:36 | 3279572 XenoFrog

Buy tech stocks in 1998, they can only go up! Get in early!

Buy a house in 2006, the value can only go up!

You may not be able to differentiate between opportunities and just invest in everything that comes along, but it's a pretty good way to lose all your assets.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:39 | 3280406 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:30 | 3280072 Haole

"Avoid it like the plague."

The same advice should be tabled with regards to absolutely anything you bang-out on your keyboard and post on ZH XenoWTFrog.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 04:45 | 3281022 Bangers

Or just avoid the scams and ponzi schemes?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 11:03 | 3281612 teribuhl

you might pay attention to what coinlab wants to do with forex border dealers re trading btc

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/coinlab-bringing-bitcoin-to-wall-street-with-mtgox-deal/

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:35 | 3278981 Tsunami Wave

Knowing how these things work, probably not. They would either just bribe them, front-run and ride short/long their currencies, or threaten their lives (if not, then outright murder).

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:27 | 3279262 CH1

They would either just bribe them...

Dude - there is no one to bribe!

It's cryptography - math. You can't bribe the number 3.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:43 | 3279022 medium giraffe

Can't be rolled into tube, they'll hate it.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:57 | 3279102 wee-weed up

OMG!!! Can't have that!

Barney Fife Bernanke... "Gotta nip it in the bud!"

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:33 | 3278965 MayIMommaDogFac...

MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Ask Google...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:33 | 3278968 TruthInSunshine

Yes, digital monopoly fiat known as FRNs, in accounts that can be hacked and wiped clean.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:34 | 3278971 seek

The bitcoin network is distributed -- massively so. There's no central place to "hack."

If your lose your private keys, then you're screwed and can't access your money, but it's still on the ledger.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:21 | 3279235 XenoFrog

The central places that are hacked are the bitcoin exchanges (that have restrictions on how much $ you can take out at a time part of the definition of a ponzi scheme).

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:48 | 3279359 TraderTimm

Banks get hacked, and they have restrictions on how much money you can take out at a time.

Does this mean banks are a ponzi scheme? If so, why do you use them?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:59 | 3279415 XenoFrog

Your money in the bank is insured by the FDIC, and you can take out more than $50 a day from a bank.

Nice hilarious attempt at trying to create an equivalency. Unfortunately unlike bitcoiners, I'm not fool.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:20 | 3279512 TraderTimm

You're just an unfortunate soul that cherry-picks their examples for your benefit.

Please, don't use bitcoin - I'd rather it be in the hands of people who value monetary freedom.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:37 | 3279575 XenoFrog

Should I buy in now or when the price falls back down to $6?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:01 | 3280489 Half_A_Billion_...

the only real question is which agency/bank you work for. Are you really that much afraid of ZH? Awesome; we must be doing god's work here, ain't we?

Enjoy the 65c of your labor bafore hyperinflation comes

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:33 | 3279740 Hi Ho Silver

Monetary freedom is barter. Not locking my wealth up in some digital fiat wallet, bitcoin or BoA.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:43 | 3279604 New World Chaos

The FDIC's account is several digits smaller than the amount of bank deposits.

Historically, hyperinflation ultimately leads to mass bank runs. There will be withdrawal limits. FDIC insurance will be worthless. Your so-called advantages will be used to trap people in banks while the system destroys their savings. Best to shift to a better currency before the sheeple catch on.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:42 | 3279766 XenoFrog

And bitcoin is not a better currency because it has all the failings that you just described and more.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:01 | 3280493 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 21:30 | 3280125 Haole

My withdrawl limit on VirtEx is in the five figures per month. With verified accounts these types of "limits" are fairly standard across exchanges.

On the contrary, you are a fool and responsible for yet another completely untrue, bullshit post.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:56 | 3280472 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 00:40 | 3280785 CompassionateFascist

"...as soon as I hear the words "liquidity" and "algorithm"...I reach for my gun

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:49 | 3279361 seek

First, the talk of bitcoin as a ponzi is just ridiculous. Ponzies/pyramids depend on more entrants funding returns for earlier entrants. Bitcoins generate no interest or returns, and the introduction of new bitcoins is fixed by the algorithm. So there's just flat out no ponzi. Bitcoins in = bitcoins out less transaction fees, no one is promising 10, 20% more bitcoins if you "get in early."

There's an FX play as bitcoin gets adopted, but that's what it is, an FX play, and you can get burned with a USD to BTC exchange just like a JPY to USD exchange.

Now, regarding hacking, exchanges and web-based wallets have been hacked, just like banks have been hacked. No one blames USD for a bank getting hacked, you blame the bank's IT and the hackers.

Same here. Blame the exchange security and the hackers. The BTC itself is secure and can't be created or stolen willy-nilly by a "hack."

Depending on exchanges there may or may not be restrictions. There's lots of shit going down with the exchanges, and here's why:

Bitcoin use is growing, and people want to buy bitcoin. Investors want to buy a LOT of bitcoin. When they go to an exchange, the exchanges own account may not have as much as is being demanded, so the price rises, and eventually people sell their bitcoin and the order is filled. It's gotten to the point now where exchanges are routinely getting orders they can't fill, so they're capping what you can buy. Likewise, this happens with selling. The problem is that the movements in price are big enough that the exchange can't commit to a price without a price move killing them. A fair number of the US-based exchanges are having this issue, and cancelling orders using bullshit excuses when the trade goes the wrong way on them. This is an exchange problem, not a bitcoin problem, just like bullshit AU paper prices are a COMEX problem, not a gold problem.

The other issue with exchanges is that bitcoin is on the radar of governments now, so they're requiring anti-money-laundering law compliance. A year ago I could buy $200 of bitcoin without needing any ID, now they're tracking it the same as a cash withdrawl at a bank. Because of that, they put in withdrawl limits. It's a function of interacting with the "real" monetary system. I can send BTC worth $20K USD to anyone instantly and anonymously, but if I (or they) try to convert it to cash, we're going to have to deal with the legal bullshit, or cash out piecemeal using localbitcoin. Fortunately there's a number of online stores that operate using bitcoin emerging, so as the parallel economy develops this will be less of a problem (until the gov't steps in again, of course).

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:55 | 3280467 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:38 | 3279308 XenoFrog

The most popular exchange of Bitcoin online currency, Mt. Gox, on Sunday admitted it had been hacked. It made the announcement after the price of Bitcoins dropped from $17 to nearly zero in a matter of minutes. The sell off happened after a Mt. Gox account with a large amount of Bitcoins was hacked, and the hacker sold all Bitcoins in that account.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:43 | 3279330 CH1

So, what's your motivation, sister?

Saving us poor unwashed from our impending doom?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:02 | 3279427 XenoFrog

I don't want ZeroHedgers to lose their money to scammers
I don't want ZeroHedge to be infested with scammers
I don't want legitimate investments to be tied to your scams.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:10 | 3279464 CH1

Ah, saving us poor unwashed from our stupid selves.

You're probably running for congress too.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:38 | 3279586 XenoFrog

It's so sad to see people who got fleeced in a scam turn around and try to fleece others. Have you no shame?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:56 | 3279637 New World Chaos

That's pretty rich, coming from someone who works for the biggest, most shameless scam artists in history.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:00 | 3279824 XenoFrog

I wasn't aware that the local bookstore where I work is owned by such a person.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:05 | 3280253 Pseudo Anonym

wow, you've been here 2yrs 48wks, hardly comment, but this got you fired up.

why??

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:15 | 3280296 XenoFrog

When something needs to be said, I say it. Especially when I can offer an insight that isn't being reflected in the posts of others. And my Israeli/CIA/Mossad/KGB/GoldmanSachs handlers turn me on when they begin to really fear bitcoin. Get in early so that you can get rich quick!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:38 | 3280349 Pseudo Anonym

okie dokie; just checking. thanks for the advice.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:06 | 3280510 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:33 | 3280609 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:05 | 3280507 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 21:31 | 3280131 Haole

If only she could save us all from her astounding idiocy...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:03 | 3280502 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:34 | 3280614 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:34 | 3278977 debtor of last ...

Yes. Gold.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:38 | 3278996 unununium

BTC is how you send your gold to someone else worldwide without having to trust any BANK, GOVERNMENT, or any third party unless you want to.

Also free and instantaneous.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:02 | 3279132 redpill

And a lot lighter!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:15 | 3279201 New World Chaos

Thanks in part to coinabul.com, BTC is also how you transport wealth out of America without it being taxed or confiscated. The Feds now have goons on the ganplanks asking suspicious people about gold (they know the TSA is full of morons so they want an extra layer). There are many ways to get your BTC out, in encrypted form, without it being detectable.

The mathematical cap at 21 million BTC makes this a deflationary currency. There will also be inevitable losses due to smashed hard drives, deaths, etc. which makes BTC even more deflationary. Good for saving. If it becomes as big as gold, that will be 300oz per coin! Methinks the early adopters will be the next Rothschilds.

There will be an anarchist horde with a Rothschild-sized mischief fund they can send to anyone. Simultaneously, there will be a lot of disgruntled Snake Plissken types who resent being played while they were in the Special Forces. There will also be a lot of desperate people. You wouldn't even have to meet them to complete a deal. Think about it... how many BTC would it cost to get a bunch of skater punks to pull the fire alarms at Mall of America on Black Friday?

Here's something that's even technically legal (as if legalities matters anymore): The Angle Grinders for Meth Addicts Charitable Trust. SCRAPocalypse within a week! Best to do this in a city with a lot of military/bureaucratic/prison/FEMA infrastructure, in a state that will be on the wrong side of the revolution.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:02 | 3279133 XenoFrog

Vast majority of civiilzation will accept gold and silver. Almost nobody will accept bitcoin unless you're buying drugs or child porn online.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:14 | 3279196 overqualified

Now even the Mogambo guru and Lew Rockwell accept Bitcoins.

Then we will move on to Litecoins, Namecoins and Terracoins to name a few.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 00:43 | 3280787 CompassionateFascist

...and some new subspecies of Tulips...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:39 | 3279317 XenoFrog

Downvoters, why was one of the biggest names in Bitcoin so eager to host a Bitcoin conference in the child sex capital of the world?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:50 | 3279365 TraderTimm

Why are you so eager to grasp any straw to 'soil' bitcoin?

Any vested interest? Own any bank stocks? Are you a employee of the SWIFT network? You're starting to look like a shrill alarmist.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:06 | 3279443 XenoFrog

Hah, yes because if anyone talks about the obvious negatives in bitcoin they must have some alterior motive. Unlike you benevolent types who just want to help people get rich quick if they get in early!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:27 | 3279541 digitalhermit

Interesting how you harp on the motives of others while avoiding any disclosure of your own motives. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Bitcoin proponents have no problems discussing the well known weaknesses of this new technology, and they have nothing to do with online child exploitation or whatever other nonsense you keep spouting on about:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:13 | 3279859 XenoFrog

I'm not avoiding disclosure of anything. I'm a long time ZH poster and supporter of Gold/Silver as an alternative to a defunct US Dollar. I also have lots of experience dealing with people like the bitcoiners who seek to take advantage of hostility towards the US system by retooling classical scams for the 21st Century.

Bitcoiners are totally incapable of dealing with any of the well known weaknesses of their savior alternate currency. This is why people who bring up questions about it are banned from community forums, and you guys flood topics like this one in an attempt to beat down anyone who speaks out against the blessed coin.

Nice strawman link there btw.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:31 | 3280097 Haole

You have also argued vehemently at great length that the "official story" of 9/11 was absolutely true I recall.

Being a long-time ZH poster does not automatically exempt you from being a moron honey.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:57 | 3279407 CH1

in the child sex capital of the world?

LOL... Not many of us have wasted a portion of our lives researching that 'fact.'

Running out of insults, are we?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:08 | 3279457 XenoFrog

What? You didn't hear about that? Perhaps you should learn some more about the bitcoin community.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:34 | 3280613 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:07 | 3279452 New World Chaos

OMG!!! Will someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN?!?!?!? There needs to be a LAW!!! For our protection, of course!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:09 | 3279462 XenoFrog

A curious response that seems to be justifying sex with children... very odd.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:11 | 3279475 CH1

C'mon, who do you work for?

I must know.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:33 | 3279517 New World Chaos

By now it should be ovious that "Please think of the children!" is one of the most useful calls for herding sheeple to legalized slaughter. Sex with children is abhorrent but squashing BitCoin won't stop it because TPTB don't care. It's really about maintaining their gravy train and social control. In fact, BitCoin could help us castrate our pedophiliac overlords (see longer post above). So invest in BTC and save the precious children!

Come to think of it, your ridiculous guilt-by-association attacks on BitCoin and previous blatant attempts to herd us unto banks makes me think YOU are working for the pedophiliac overlords (though obviously very far down in the food chain, because you're not too bright).

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:15 | 3279870 XenoFrog

If your community wasn't filled to the brim with drug dealers, scammers, and paedophiles, you wouldn't have to deal with guilt by association. Hang out with scum and you get labeled scum.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:17 | 3279503 toxic8

If you're talking shit about the LoS, you suck donkey nozzle

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:26 | 3279730 Tijuana Donkey Show

Everybody loves a donkey show, except the girls dad, he kinka failed parenting.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:23 | 3280331 TheFourthStooge-ing

.

Downvoters, why was one of the biggest names in Bitcoin so eager to host a Bitcoin conference in the child sex capital of the world?

Well, that settles it. Hosting a bitcoin conference in Washington DC pretty much proves it's a government plot.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:10 | 3280522 Half_A_Billion_...

.XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:10 | 3280519 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:12 | 3279185 digitalhermit

If the gold and silver standards were such a success, why didn't they last?

http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/12/01/why-do-people-want-a-gold-stan...

I won't deny that gold and silver protect against inflation in fiat - they do. But that is about all they do. When you buy something on the internet, do you really want to send gold coins in the mail to pay for it? That is what the gold standard means.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:38 | 3279000 Renewable Life

How is bit coin a work around for online gambling?? I haven't heard that before? What sites are taking US clients using bit coins??

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:46 | 3279031 seek

Online gambling is prohibited using USD, VISA/Mastercard, etc.

You use USD to buy bitcoin, then gamble the bitcoin. If you win, you win bitcoins which can be sent to your public bitcoin address (and you can generate new public addresses at will for anonymity).

Want USD? Convert bitcoin back to USD.

Because of how bitcoin works, there's no practical way of blocking its use gambling like there is with VISA.

Google bitcoin casinos. There's dozens of them.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:59 | 3279112 ParkAveFlasher

Can bitcoins be confiscated or rendered illegal?

What a minute, I know what the answer will be...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:22 | 3279242 seek

Confiscated, no. Unless someone has access to your private keys, there's no way to move them on the ledger.

The could be made illegal in a technical sense, but enforcability is a challenge.

For example, I've posted a public address on ZH several times and had people send me coins. I can generated new public addresses as will: 1CxhRfaVuAPxVAuqH4cwKzEVdLtDxAW3re (just made that one, anyone wants to dump money on me, feel free!)

That address can accept coins from anyone. The only connection to me is this message. I can generate more addresses on demand and publish them anonymously, so in a practical sense, a ban on bitcoin can't be enforced. It's be roughly the equivalent of banning cash.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:44 | 3279338 ParkAveFlasher

Your access points can't be traced? Listen guys, there is nothing new under the sun. This might be an awesome money laundering scheme - CIA written all over it - but I'll remain a skeptic at best.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 21:20 | 3280100 seek

Actually, not really. I could disconnect from the internet forever at this point and that address could still receive bitcoins, which would show up in the ledger on all peers.

Using my private key, I could (offline) generate a spendable bitcoin transaction. If I wanted to do it online, I could enter the transaction into the network a half dozen ways anonymously.

Just to be clear, anonymity on bitcoin is an option, not a requirement. If you wish to be truly anonymous, you can be, but it'll take some work on your part. As it stands, causual use is pseudonymous, meaning there's no direct connection to a person on the ledger, but unless specific precautions are taken, interacting with the bitcoin network could establish your IP address. This part of bitcoin is very similar to bittorrent or other file-sharing networks and share the same security concerns with respect to identity.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:47 | 3279353 e-recep

bitcoin seems to be more suitable for petty cash transfers on a global scale. but i would certainly not use it for wealth storage.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:55 | 3279395 seek

I would agree.

I think there's money to be made as it grows (as I've said elsewhere, it's a FX play) but irrespective of that, I'll store my wealth in physical. However, like cash, bitcoin lets you move, spend and buy, so if I wanted to send some gold to that cute Ukrainian chick that keeps emailing me, bitcoin can do it with ease.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:12 | 3284175 Tompooz

Banning cash, or making its use a hassle is already well underway in Europe, with France now added to the list where caps on cash transactions will be introduced.

Making BitCoin illegal (because it can be used to circumvent..lots of regulation and controls) could be enforced by packet sniffers. Its use will stop due to the fear of attracting undue attention.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:48 | 3279036 Shizzmoney

https://sealswithclubs.eu/ does bitcoin poker online.

The idea is great; the application is terrible. It's too technical, it's too complicated and volatile (in terms of value to the USD), and it's also in the government's crosshairs (Surprise! Chuck Schumer ain't a fan) so at some point, they might shut this down, too.

BUT it does a good job of being encrypted, and of course, it's completely independent of any fiat currency.

I get giddy at the thought of creating my own wealth WITHOUT either fiat (hard to obtain) or PMs (limited supply, can't afford it).

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:13 | 3279189 digitalhermit

http://www.sealswithclubs.eu/

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:43 | 3279333 meltdown

Also google is preparing to block payments to "illegal websites". visa,mc transactions etc.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 21:33 | 3280133 DosZap

Also google is preparing to block payments to "illegal websites". visa,mc transactions etc.

Yep, so they can get us all hooked into PayPal.

Anyone else noticed the online blogs on many sites now, have ALL switched to making you use Twitter, or Facebook,before you can post, or Google?.

All of them are agent provacateurs for the PTB,IMHO.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:16 | 3280535 Half_A_Billion_...

very good observation; that's why i dont comment anywhere anymore

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:35 | 3278973 MoneyThangs

300% be careful though Bitcoins are notroius for having huge dumps just look at the chart from 2011 went up a few hundred percent and then lost 90% of value within days of the peak

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:40 | 3279007 unununium

Not just price, use your favorite indicator to factor in the volume pattern.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:19 | 3280547 Half_A_Billion_...

Given the block reward halving from 50btc/10min to 25btc/10min, I think it looks like the 70's oil shock price--except we can expect these things to happen every 4 years in bitcoin. Hopefully the ZHers will NEVER listen.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:19 | 3279223 XenoFrog

You don't want a currency to drastically change in value like bitcoin does. If anything that chart is an example of why it isn't a good alternative to real currencies.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:51 | 3279371 TraderTimm

Sure, just like the smooth and stable eurodollar or yen.

You're really trying too hard - and it shows.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:11 | 3279477 XenoFrog

Ah yes, the "You're trying too hard" internet zinger. Always a winner.

In the crackhead mind of the bitcoiner, you're either for bitcoin or you are for fiat currency. There are no other options. No sir... :eyeroll:

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:36 | 3279571 TraderTimm

Actually we're open to discussing the weaknesses of bitcoin, but all you seem to come up with are "If the internet turns OFF completely" and "everything I look at says its a ponzi" with no rational logic behind it.

So, can't admit you're wrong about any of the claims you've made? Why not? Afraid of losing face?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:20 | 3279895 XenoFrog

Yes, you're open to discussing the weaknesses of bitcoin. That's why you flipped your table and you guys are calling me a banking employee plant for daring to challenge it. As for losing face, I have nothing to admit or apologize for today. You on the other hand may have played a part in convincing some ZH'ers to put money into bitcoin and I bet you any number of bitcoins that when they lose it all, you won't be around to reimburse them for their losses. If anything you'll also be one of the fleeced and too proud to admit it. At worst you're in on the scamming.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:23 | 3280572 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:29 | 3280590 TraderTimm

Bitcoin is a risk, like anything else.

I've never said it was infallible. But I can tell you, I'll take an algorithm over a politician any day. What I don't understand is your complete unwillingness to admit you might be wrong.

I'm fully prepared if I'm wrong - this is no different than any other trade I've ever made in my life.

So, you're perfect? Or can we peek under the mask and get some kind of human admission that you're not?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:21 | 3280560 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:20 | 3280552 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:35 | 3278982 imbrbing

Have to wait for all the herd to get into the pen first.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:36 | 3278984 seek

Not really. The protocol definitition gets tweaked by a select few to deal with issues that come up, but the basics are well established and entrenched now.

There's no way that a small group can declare any changes to values, accounting, etc.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:47 | 3279032 unununium

Same chance as someone changing Internet protocols without wide acceptance.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:49 | 3279043 runlevel

ok that actually makes some sense.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:48 | 3279040 unununium

Those changes are fixed by the algorithm. Arbitrary changes are impossible.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:36 | 3278985 Dave Thomas

You think the CIA is that smart?

Besides only Terrorists use BitCoin.

Oh yeah and gold.

Carry on.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:41 | 3279324 XenoFrog

Bitcoiners are obsessed with tying bitcoin to Gold and Silver to give it legitimacy that bitcoin lacks.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:46 | 3279350 CH1

And you are uber-obcessed with trashing it.

The interesting quedstion is why.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:53 | 3279377 TraderTimm

My guess is Xeno works for a big bank or payment processing network. They're going to be the first to feel the pain as the bitcoin network grows in dominance.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:13 | 3279485 XenoFrog

That's a first. Usually I'm called a Jew and a secret CIA/Zionist/NSA/Mossad plant. Clearly no rational human being could be against the glory of bitcoin. Get in early before it's too late to get rich quick!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:38 | 3279581 TraderTimm

Please don't get 'in' Xeno. We need rational people who understand the protocols behind bitcoin, not hyper-reactionary trolls that can't string a logical argument together.

Hmm, I guess this makes it an anti-ponzi since I don't want you to join. Did I just make your forehead vein pulse a bit?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:23 | 3279908 XenoFrog

Yes you sure showed me. Wicked ice burn, bro.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:31 | 3280598 TraderTimm

I see I struck a nerve - sorry, the truth often does that. I didn't mean to hurt you that deeply.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:28 | 3280584 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:37 | 3280394 Haole

Look back at this thread XenoWTFrog. Any rational person would question your obsession with machine-gunning baseless, untrue statements and utter BS about Bitcoin.

You're one of the last people on the fucking planet that should talk about legitimacy in any context.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:27 | 3280580 Half_A_Billion_...

XENOFROG THE ASTROTURFER FOR FIAT SHIT.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:42 | 3279015 seek

The core algorithm of bitcoin is a double AES256 hash; it's done twice specifically to thwart AES being broken, and AES is pretty solid as is. Satoshi appeared to be very thorough and/or paranoid.

Also, if AES256 gets broken, we have much bigger problems on our hands than bitcoin. If the capability existed, the government would likely keep it ultra-secret and not bother with something as trivial as bitcoin.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:49 | 3279049 unununium

Does not matter who created it. Source code and protocols are public.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:46 | 3279030 akak

I demand money backed by story problems --- NOBODY is going to fuck around with those!

Alternative Currency Goes Mainstream As Bitcoin ATMs Emerge

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