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Alternative Currency Goes Mainstream As Bitcoin ATMs Emerge
Submitted by Michael Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
The Bitcoin ATM has Arrived... Here’s How it Works
The more I learn about Bitcoin, the more I support it. In fact, the only donations we accept on this site are Bitcoin donations. As I mentioned in a post late last summer, I think it represents another way to fight back against the current repressive and immoral monetary system that has a strangle hold on the planet. Ever since WordPress.com (the extremely popular blogging platform and 22nd most popular site on the internet), decided to accept Bitcoin as payment last November the value of Bitcoins versus the U.S. dollar has more than doubled.
The esoteric crypto-currency continues to gain popularity and technologies to make it even more user friendly are popping up all over the place. The latest is the Bitcoin ATM, which could be a serious game changer for adoption. From CNET:
NASHUA, N.H. — Zach Harvey has an ambitious plan to accelerate adoption of the Internet’s favorite alternative currency: installing in thousands of bars, restaurants, and grocery stores ATMs that will let you buy Bitcoins anonymously.
It’s the opposite of a traditional automated teller that dispenses currency. Instead, these Bitcoin ATMs will accept dollar bills — using the same validation mechanism as vending machines — and instantly convert the amount to Bitcoins and deposit the result in your account.
Harvey and Matt Whitlock are partners in a New Hampshire-based venture, Lamassu Bitcoin Advisors, that’s hoping to commercialize the ATM by selling to retail businesses, especially ones that also want to accept the decentralized alternative currency from customers.
Unlike modern currency, which can be brought into existence at the whim of politicians or a central bank, leading to each note being devalued, the number of Bitcoins is governed by predictable mathematical algorithms. That’s made Bitcoin popular among libertarians and other activists skeptical of the Federal Reserve; the Free State Project accepts payment for its summer festival in Bitcoins, for instance. (The U.S. dollar has lost 96 percent of its value over the last century because of cumulative year-over-year inflation, according to federal government data.)
To obtain Bitcoins, people use an iPhone app like Blockchain or Android‘s BitcoinSpinner to show the ATM a QR code with their desired address for payments. After they insert a dollar bill (denominations up to $100 are accepted), the ATM automatically credits their Bitcoin account with the proceeds. There’s a 1 percent transaction fee.
Just awesome. Great work guys!
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"Searching" might be a better way of describing things. Basically, what is taking place is a search for a block of bits that satisfy a specific set of criteria.
All the details get complicated, and I don't want to do hand-waving to wish it away, but let me provide a gross simplification of how it works.
You have a block of bits, you compute a SHA256 hash of that block, and then a SHA256 hash of the hash. This gives you some (smaller) set of bits that is the double-hash output from the (larger) block.
OK, great. Now that hash value has to fit within the currently accepted difficulty level. The easiest way to describe this is that the hash has to be smaller than some agreed-upon number (which is the difficulty.)
So, what happens if the hash isn't smaller? All your work is tossed. That block is no good to the bitcoin network. If you tried to stuff the block into the network they'd see the double-hash value wasn't small enough, and every peer would reject it.
So, you go back and change a small number of bits in the block set aside for this very purpose. Increment by one, then go through the whole process again. Darn it, the hash value is STILL too big.
Repeat that a few hundred million times, until, finally, by sheer luck because the AES256 double hash output is essentially random, you have a hash value that small enough. Valid block!
You send that into the network, and it passes the checks and you can rightfully claim the 25 bitcoin reward.
In practice most miners (my self included) join a mining pool, where the work is split up and we share the rewards in proportion to the hashes we performed. We do this because it could take months for any one of us to find a good block, but collectively there's enough compute power that we'll find a block in a couple hours, and get some tiny fraction of it. (My rig generates about 0.1 bitcoins per day when it's on.)
Whoever wants to can run the software and contribute to the security of the network by making their processing power available. What this means is that they validate new transactions and add them to a public ledger via a lottery system. Who ever solves a cryptographic math problem first gets to add the next new entry called a block. This requires actual labor in the form of computer hardware, an internet connection and lots of electricity. As a reward for their contribution whoever adds a new entry into the public ledger gets a reward. This reward started out as 50BTC per entry and is on a predetermined path towards zero, halving approx every four years. The first halving happened at the end of November 2012 and the reward is now 25BTC per entry.
There's a caveat to this where if you have more processing power it is more likely that you will find the cryptographic solution first and so a whole industry has now risen around this service where to actually take part you need dedicated hardware (so called ASICs) and a decent level of computer science expertise. So it doesn't make sense anymore to try and do this with your laptop like it used to because you will pay way more in your electricity costs than you would get bitcoins in return. The reason is the algorithm periodically checks every 2016 entries how fast the rate of new entries is and tries to set a difficulty of the cryptographic problem to maintain an average rate of 1 entry per 10min.
This is why the schedule that bitcoins will be issued on or their limit can't be cheated.
p.s.: it's this process of validating and adding new transactions to the public ledger and receiving a reward that's analogously called mining.. Many think it should be simply and more appropriately called auditing.
Regarding the entirely separate issue of the security of encrypted systems, I would note that Iran (with the help of Russia or China) hacked and landed a cutting edge spy drone. I'm thinking the Department of Defense can afford to hire all the MIT cryptographers it wants but, hey, there ya go.
The weaknesses in the system are as always, with the people using them. encryption doesn't matter when you're continually falling victim to confidence schemes.
You're competing with people who run the NVIDIA TESLA GPUs (more powerful than 100 of your puny desktops for crypto operations) to mine bitcoins. The bitcoin-equivalent of banks printing their own money. If it can be exploited, it will be exploited.
And then there's the little issue of the fact that a single phone call from the DHS to your ISP renders all your bitcoins useless.
(shhh...you're interrupting their group prayer session)
Yeah, we'd better not interrupt everyone praying the US Dollar will be worth something. Or was it their 401k? I forget, since the entire conventional financial system is a craven mess of corruption and scams.
Corzine, HSBC, Bernie Madoff.... you guys are really lucky to have such a stable and perfect system.
We're on the same side; my Jesus just has a better tan.
I'm praying for you too, I just don't want to put money in your congregation's basket.
Hey you're not being open minded enough. It's like a bank passbook, only you don't know wtf it says because it's written in a cypher that requires a third party - somewhere out on the internet, mind you - to decrypt.
It's based on math! Math! Because math can't be taken out of your hands.
Christ, is this a DARPA experiment in how much bullshittery the gold crowd can put up with?
Perhaps you should read more about the subject you're trolling. The uppper bound of creation is capped. It uses the same encryption that banks use to protect your "zeros and ones". DHS can't do anything to something that exists in the realm of information. Are you seriously suggesting the ENTIRE internet is under their control?
Got any other stupid things to say? Really, just get it all out at once.
So will TPTB go after the banks or people who seek alternative value?
When Bitcoins are outlawed as a means of transaction, what will their value be?
Think, please think. I am agog at how otherwise intelligent people who speak endlessly of the infallibility of math and logic don't apply the same math and logic to the likelihood of this new "currency" being crushed by TPTB and made worthless overnight.
gpu mining is dead. that was so 2012.
..and besides, nvidia cards are not good mining machines.
"there's the little issue of the fact that a single phone call from the DHS to your ISP renders all your bitcoins useless."
If Bitcoins were fiat, here's what your ignorance would reveal:
"there's the little issue of the fact that a single phone call from the DHS to your bank renders all the cash you're holding in your hand useless."
If your point is that Bitcoins
and fiat are BOTH subject to government intervention,
then your point is logical.
No one will use gold and silver as currency today because they are too valuable. Bitcoins are intrinsically worth nothing and few want to hold them too long. All other things being equal, Bitcoin is a better substitute for a new system of exchange than gold or silver coin.
better?
for government to manipulate and track.
I'll Bitwork for Bitcoins...
It's all great until the Chinese hook a Great Wall of computers up to the turbines at the Three Gorges Dam and start mining Bitcoins by the millions.
By that statement I know you don't understand bitcoin, but I'm going to play along because it demonstrates something important about bitcoin.
The bitcoin peer network regularly calculates a number called "difficulty" based on the processing capacity available on the network. More processing power equals higher difficulty.
So, before the Chinese show up, the network is producing one new block (which gets its 25 bitcoin reward) every 10 minutes.
China fires up their super computer and starts mining blocks. After just a couple thousand blocks the network will recompute the difficulty level, increasing it greatly, so that the entire network including these new chinese supercomputers produces one new block evey 10 minutes. The power goes out in china, after another couple thousand blocks, the difficulty readjusts downward to ensure what remains produces a block every 10 minutes.
The peers in the bitcoin network automatically scale. You can't just "start mining bitcoins by the millions."
You are correct. My understanding of Bitcoin is pretty much limited to what you just explained to me. My whole comment was based on the standard that anything involving "mining" will be exploited by the Chinese. I particularly enjoy the stories of the Chinese prison guards using inmates to mine World of Warcraft gold all day and night online.
Like gold, I can't buy anything I want to buy with it.
Neither gold nor bitcoin are money.
Sad to see how many posters on this board are presumably happy with the status quo . . . . and that there can be NO side-by-side alternatives to PMs as an alternative to central bankster fiat. Bitcoin can be transferred, for free, anywhere in the world, electronically. You prefer paying 3-4% to Master Card and Visa (and more for money transfer services)?
Also, the likelihood that they can take the internet or power grid down, worldwide and simultaneously, is the same as the likelihood that all countries outlaw gold ownership and trading, simultaneously. And if either of those happen - lead and brass, our other side-by-side saving instruments, will necessarily take over along with food as a primary money. The point is, money should be a FREE blend of many sound alternatives.
Agree that you should save mostly PMs, but if you really believe in liberty (and the evils of modern central banking), you owe it to yourself to learn a little bit about Bitcoin. An international, 100% anarchic, electronic currency.
Don't be too bummed, ultra, some of these posters are professional trolls. Not only do they follow BTC discussions, but they also follow Kreiger.
Agora!
O.K., O.K., I'll consider it, but only with the tip of a toe.
I am all for liberty and against central banking, and anarchy in the face of those crooks.
After 20 years in IT I know how vulnerable any technology, encryption, anything binary and online is. I have never ever seen an encryption, technology, software, hardware, or system not get cracked. There are an endless line of "foolproof" solutions that were like the best safe ever built; once built the bad guys had all the time in the world to figure out the vulnerability and crack it.
I'll consider it if you guys will stop the "foolproof" and "laws of mathematics" and "completely secure and anonymous" and other Enigma-speak and add a grain of salt to the discussions.
We recognize that encryption schemes may have to change. We also know that if encryption is 'cracked', then the banks are vulnerable too. I'd wager that the bitcoin network would switch over and patch the problem a lot quicker than Bank of America.
Bitcoin isn't perfect, but at least it has a prayer with an open source codebase that has been vetted by cryptography experts, and many developers who have pored over the code looking for any problems.
Consider this, over its lifespan of a couple years, the bitcoin protocol hasn't been broken. That would be like saying a currency has never been counterfeited. I think you can appreciate why we value this over sovereign currencies.
What a fascinating discussion! Thanks everyone for your diverse & strongly expressed points of view.
Disclaimer: I am long physical PMs.
Must admit I had dismissed Bitcoin out of hand previously. However after reading tonight's posts I'm willing to give this another look.
Bitcoin as a store of value or "wealth", no. But as a short term medium of exchange quite possibly.
Very interesting concept. I will be watching this more closely in future.
Thanks tylers for keeping an open mind on the glass box technocurrency of the open source community. Honesty scares the shit out of bankers and the open source transparency philosophy is a message that needs delivering on so many levels. Big respect tylers...........
+21,000,000
it's easy..
use bitcoins for online purchases, use cash for real life purchases and save/preserve your wealth with precious metals.
Makes perfect sense to me
When ClitCoint collapses into oblivion all you fucktards are going to learn a valuable lesson on what it means to take it up the ass. It's like rich turds that store their gold in some "vault" somewhere and then find out there ain't shit but a gold plated tungsten bar where their "wealth" once was sitting. Bitcoin is just a theoretical threat against fiat, theoretical because TPTB can crush it in a fucking heartbeat whenever they want. So while you guys jerk off on your ClitCoin dreams, I'll be polishing the gold that is sitting in my own muther fucking vault.
When they come for your Bitcoin, you won't even know what the fuck hit you.
I can tell you put a LOT of thought into your satire by cleverly using genitalia references.
We recognize any system has risk, we discuss the weaknesses and how to improve it. What do you have? A sovereign currency system that doesn't give a rats ass if it is inflated to hell and back. A system that doesn't care if you can't save for retirement. A system that tries at every opportunity to wrest control from you.
If your answer is to give up and play the fiat game, I don't know how to even begin with you -- you're already lost.
You have a reading comprehension and/or low level of intelligence. Go read what I wrote again I didn't say shit about supporting fiat shit dick. I think Bitcoin IS the answer, however, precisely because it is such a threat, is exactly why it will be destroyed and EXACTLY why anyone with a fucking brain will stay the fuck away from it. Comprende?
It's success is going to destroy it, or, rather, force TPTB to destroy it.
Gold cannot be destroyed, it can be confiscated away, but not without a revolution and a bloody battle.
I'm three dimensions and a few matrices ahead of where you and others are in your thinking on these matters.
Again, I believe Bitcoin is a threat to fiat which is precisely why it will FAIL.
Look at gold man, and the manipulation to keep in down, now ask yourself, are TPTB going to sit by and watch as some open source currency displaces their fiat machine?
And guess who gets fucking steam rolled when they flip the switch bitch.
Unless TPTB can change math, they can't touch Bitcoin.
They don't need to change math, they contol the media, and they will kill it that way.
They already tried to kill it with the media. It didn't work and Bitcoin grew.
TPTB are fucked.
@Cone
Really, you have to storm out of the gate cussing like a local that got shafted on a trade in the pit? Give it a break.
If you see the strengths of the bitcoin network, I don't know how you'd think it would ultimately fail - look at other things governments have tried to 'smash' or control - encryption (Remember Phil Zimmermann?), filesharing, domain seizures. All of these things have workarounds and most have adapted quite easily to these ham-handed attempts to stop them.
So I'd have to disagree with your conclusion that bitcoin fails. I say bitcoin will be around in some incarnation or another, after having evolved from responding to external attempts to 'kill' it.
The only 'bitch' here is Bernanke, friend.
Well, I'm watching it closely, and I can see the virtue in trying to support it, but really, I can think of a dozen other hard assets to put money into before Bitcoin.
"I can think of a dozen other hard assets to put money into before Bitcoin."
Name 12 assets that have performed better than Bitcoin in the past 12 months.
The past twelve months are you fucking shitting me? Don't bring that weak ass shit. Hwo did bitcoin do in the last two days versus VXX you dumb fuck?
Bitcoin's only been around for four years. In its short life, it's outperforming everything. Everything.
I'm 30% bitcoin, 30% PMs and 40% cash and various. My bitcoin third has more than doubled my holdings.
You do the math.
When you start from zero and routinely revisit it, the wild ossilations of value in a bitcoin don't tell you anything. Your "investment" could be worth zero tomorrow if someone dumps even a modest number of bitcoins on the exchanges. The tiny market makes for huge moves in either direction.
It isn't a surprise to anyone that markets that have only existed a few years will have thinner orderbook depth, compared to the equities or futures markets.
As to speculative arguments about a massive order plunging valuation - yes, that is a natural consequence of a thin book. I'd like to say though that the overall depth for the main markets in the edge-exchanges has been building steadily compared to the whisper-thin margins in 2011.
TraderTim - I have studied bitcoin and uit is an interesting, indedd ingenious development.
But it is doomed to failure. There have already been some hacked thefts of bitcoin. You should probably include those in your unending, risk free analysis of bitcoin.
Additionally, with your constant berating of intelligent questions from some ZHer's here, makes you sound like a feckin' twat. That was Bernie Madoff's method of disencouraging questioners to his constant 15% / yr returns.
So either become more explanatory or just shut the fuck up.
Trader Timm is on the sheep fucking cool aid. Bitcoin will be hacked to death. I don't give a shit how fucking secure or how fucking mathematical anyone think Shit Coin is, its fucking dead.
You might as well go put your fucking gold out on the sidewalk with a big FREE sign, because that is what this Bitcoin shill environement is all about.
Fucking shills making money off fucktard bakck office monkey wanna be BSD clits like Trader Tim.
I'm open to any proof that the protocol was hacked. Not websites, the actual blockchain. Show me a miner node that can produce bitcoin outside the expected rates - and I'll believe you.
Bitcoin isn't a Madoff scheme - I know the risks, and I know what it is going to do to the world of finance. My position on bitcoin doesn't require you to participate. I'd even ask you NOT to participate, if you don't feel comfortable about it.
I've looked at the risks and the freedom of the system and I say it is for me. If you don't -- that is your call. I'm not cussing at people and calling them "BSD clits" or other terms.
If I throw Bitcoins in a stripclub, will I be "making it hail?"
Only idiots throw money.
If you think bitcoins will ever be considered money, you should be throwing them.
I made a pile on Bitcoin in the past year. Oddly, my competitors in the Bitcoin trade have also. Nuff said.
Not even the bitcoiners really consider bitcoins money. They're hoarding them hoping that the value will skyrocket. What they don't understand is that you can't have a successful currency when everyone is reluctant to spend them expecting the value to continue to rise.
Gresham's Law in action will doom Bitcoin.
I'd be interested to hear how you see Gresham's Law applying to Bitcoin.
"Bad money drives out good if their exchange rate is set by law."
Since the exchange rate between Bitcoin and anything else is set entirely by the market supply and demand, how is Gresham's Law even applicable?
Also, not all Bitcoiners hoard the currency - some are merely aquiring it and spending it right away, including the miners. Apparently these merchants are accepting 10,000 transactions from customers who are not spending any of their Bitcoin? http://blog.bitpay.com/2013/01/bitpay-surpasses-10000-bitcoin-merchant.html
Perhaps you could explain how the market is wrong and you are right?
> "how is Gresham's Law even applicable?"
It's not but to be fair, this is the first time in history that a decentralized, stateless currency that is worldwide has ever existed. It'll take time for some to get used to.
XenoFrog - the real end-game is not relying on edge-exchanges at all. Like I've said elsewhere. This isn't about how many dollars I can get for a bitcoin - though it seems people fixate on it. It is ultimately about the freedom of the system, no company or 'official' can stop me from spending my funds as I see fit.
Try doing that in the world of PayPal, Visa, Mastercard. They routinely block payments based on agendas that you may not agree with. I think this practice is shortsighted and wrong.
As for Gresham's Law - its just a variation on the "hoarding" argument. Here's a link to transactions conducted on the network:
http://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions
Would those bitcoins be moving at all if it were purely a "hoarded" currency?
You can ALWAYS count on goldbugs and Banskters to agree on the one thing: NOTHING MUST CHANGE!
If Bitcoin keeps growing, goldbugs and banksters will have to get used to change. Changing is the single most painful thing in the world for a bankster. And for a goldbug, judging by some the comments below.
Bitcoin: bring on the change.
Bitcoin ATM's == New Drone Targets.....Man!
Americans don't even understand the current fiat system and look what happened. Anything too complex to understand is dangerous. That said, I am very curious about Bitcoin and very interested in anything that competes with the contol freak's heroin paper. As soon as I understand it, like I understand gold and silver, I will eagerly use it. Until then, study...study...
"Until then, study...study..."
Start with the "white paper":
http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Thank you for the open minded comment. A rare thing here.
Thank you for the reference, and compliment..
Gave you a greenie. Nice work.
You've got to be kidding me. Just check out the graph halfway down:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/all/1
Look at the date: November 23, 2011. Just another example of TPTB trying to trash Bitcoin while it was just starting.
Mass media publication owned by Conde Nast (bankster connected) trashes digital currency, uses Bruce Wagner (conman) and Krugman (conman) as "experts". A year and a half after this Wired hit piece, Bitcoin is going strong and TPTB are stumbling on their own turds.
Get out of paper and get into something else. Bitcoin is an alternative at the moment, whether anyone likes it or not.
Sweet we can introduce monetization of these things. First starts with selling ATM equipment, then point of sale terminals, bt credit cards, then start bitcoin financial services! Oh, and BT "printers" hiring out servers to generate BT's, buying graphics cards specialized to generate BTs (which I've seen ads for).
Yep. With these ATMs, soon bitcoin will hit a critical mass and at that point no one, not politicians or all the bankers in the world, will be able to stop it.
And bitcoin will do to brick and mortar banks what file sharing did to the music industry. Make them obsolete.
And there's nothing they can do about it.
Wow... the bitcoin shills and pumpers are out in force tonight!
Weird. So are the pumpers for the status quo.
The algo that protects my phyzz is known around these parts as the Springfield M1A. No boat necessary.
Cb
Lots of good information here. However, it seems that there are a few big items that need to be considered:
1.) The argument that if the internet goes down, things will be so bad that food and water will be the only important things is wrong. The internet does not need to go down to interfere with bitcoin. All that has to happen is a lack of confidence in bitcoin. Its been said that "they" have already tried to discredit "bitcoin" but I don't agree. When "they" really want to discredit bitcoin, they have the ability to shut down significant portions of the distributed network. Much like China has succeeded in effectively blocking TOR. You don't need to break the encryption to make it unusable. You only need to recognize the digital signature of a bitcoin transaction and block that transaction just as China blocks the encrypted signature of TOR data.
2.) Nothing on the internet is anonymous. People think they are anonymous, but in fact they are just not active targets. If and when you do something to draw attention to yourself, then there is no way to hide on the internet. Not behind TOR, not by spoofing your UID. You can make it more difficult to track your steps, but you can never be anonymous.
3.) The internet works against the little guy. Unlike say something like a IED, which has proven effective against the big technology of the modern army, the internet works the other way. Take the Arab Spring for example, while the media was claiming that Twitter and Facebook was helping protestors, the truth was that even 3rd world goverments soon learned that they could use the internet to their advantage by hacking accounts, etc. As an individual, you are in a hopeless race in the technology war. You rely on the latest encryption, but "they" have the resources to crack and develop new encryption. You try to stay safe by changing passwords, creating many accounts, but they have the resources to employ GPS monitoring, keystroke loggers, etc. It would be a losing battle if you became a target. They don't have to target everyone, just a few high profile examples to destroy confidence.
4.) The argument has been made that they tried to take down filesharing but it is still alive and well. I would counter that they did not really try. They tolerate filesharing, porn, etc. because it distracts the masses.
5.) Back in the 90's we looked at the potential of the internet in awe. It was going to change the world and the stock market had that priced in. Well, so much for that pipe dream. As it turns out, it appears that the internet is subject to the most important limiting factor, and that is human's seeming inability to evolve past a level just above our animal cousins. The internet is a true open self organizing system and when we study what it has evolved into, its pretty clear that our animal instincts for pleasure and procreation are driving its and our evolution... or should I say devolution.
JIDF disinfo
The algo that protects my phyzz is known around these parts as the Springfield M1A. No boat necessary.
Cb
You know bitcoin is shit when you have all these mining companies popping up claiming to make people rich just by downloading and running software on your PC.
These leeches are the only ones creating wealth--all off the the sheep, many of whom post here at ZH and think they are BSD's.
Sounds like a fucking Don Lapre commerical--you fucking tools are so fucking stupid.
FUCK CLIT COIN and anyone that pumps this horseshit.
Someone once said there would be no way to force people to use electronic traceable transactions.
If BT's are traceable at some level, then I guess this is one way to do it.
IMO, the biggest drawback is that BitCoin is NOT tangible. This coupled with references to a "global digitial currency" aligns itself a bit too closely with the endgame agenda of the technocrat globalists.
"23-year-old releases new chips that 'mine' Bitcoins 50 times faster"
http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/1/3941768/new-chips-mine-bitcoins-50-time...
"The initial round of pre-orders is being delivered throughout the month, and Guo hopes to have the next round available to ship shortly after March 5th."
No one has received their orders yet, and the smart money is on the chips not existing or at the very least not being anywhere near as powerful as claimed.
Wrong again. The first Avalon ASIC orders went out in January and are already on the network (though why do you care?):
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/working-avalon-asic-confirmed/
These won't actually increase the speed of Bitcoin production, as the difficulty of mining new blocks will simply go up to adjust to the faster chips as designed.
Just like I said, fucking shills, these asshats are akin to the guys selling picks and axes during the gold rush.
All the asshats that think Bitcoins are the answer are 100% of the fucking problem in this world.
Pure idiots.
I think you're wrong. Nobody said bitcoin was the miracle magic cure to what ills us all. It gives us a chance to use money in a way that hasn't been attempted before. There's a freedom inherent to the system that other currencies don't have.
If you don't like it, fine - nobody is trying to get you to buy anything.
+1
I honestly don't understand the vehement hatred coming out over this topic. Bitcoin doesn't have to be the answer, it simply can start as an alternative to the status quo. If someday it breaks out with widespread acceptance, wonderful! If not, I simply love the peaceful civil disobedience of it..
Fiat is dead, long live alternative, competing currencies!
Another goldbug wakes up:
http://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com
Oh please, another fucking shill bitcoin whore.
Why don't I get the local university to quit wasting its supercomputer hours on drug modeling and start mining bit coins instead? Wouldn't that be a lot easier than shaking down alumni?
Don't you imagine the TBTFs have thrown some big silicon at it for shits and giggles?
I would love to see competing currencies, but I don't know about BitCoin for long term. I'll try it for quick, anonymous payments.
As an alumnus I got shook down. I offered Bitcoin & they hung up!
how do I short this shit?
You'd have to do it the old fashioned way - borrow some bitcoin and immediately liquidate it into the currency of your choice. After waiting, you'd purchase bitcoin again at a lower price to return it to the originator of the bitcoins you borrowed.
I disagree with the notion that bitcoins are 'shit' - but that is what makes a market, I guess.
I dont know much,but how Bitcoin will assure me,that there will be internet next month?
There is no assurance that the internet will exist, but there is a good probability that the several billion nodes that comprise the internet won't just evaporate into deep space.
That destructive scenario is just like the quantum probability of a broken dish leaping up into your hand and reassembling itself - it is a probability, but an extremely unlikely one.
Go bitcoin.
Politicians will more readily accept bitcoins than fiat. Its coming just when Bernanke bucks are taking a dive.
I like bitcoins. I have had some for years. I do not use bitcoins as an investment but as a zero cost way to transfer money. It is very good at this.
I can transfer money anywhere in the world for zero cost in about 10 minutes.
The article is misleading in that it implies bitcoin ATMs are here, when they are not.
Bitcoin could be shut down in a matter of minutes by the government if it wished to do so.
And the government will undoubtedly someday wish to do so.
Thus again bitcoin is a good transfer mechanism but a poor store of wealth.
I suggest physical gold for the latter.
my problem with bitcoin is - how do i quickly and reliably check if the coin is not a counterfeit coin?
It's a good question but a counterfeit bitcoin can't exist on the Bitcoin network. It's a mathematical impossibility.
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/181/can-bitcoins-be-counterfe...
This is great news. Facilitate transactions and kick the Fed in the nuts all at the same time.
Funny how many dinosaurs there are in this thread that don't understand bitcoins or their implications. But they don't really matter, because as usual, the dinosaurs will be left in the dust.
Bitcoin for me is a fun distraction (or a hedge if you prefer) to the issues affecting my other assets. I wouldn't use it as a single investment vehicle (its not meant to replace Gold though I guess a few seem to have that impression around here), but I can see (and if I scavenge enough freely online will even experience ) the utilitarian value of the Bitcoin system as a means to an end (Bitcoin is to cyber transactions as Gold is to riding out the economic apocalypse [5000 years is an envious track record, no?] ).
Bitcoin crash-course (because some learn by doing):
For those that are a little curious about them, how about some easy free coins?
1. Go to this site: https://instawallet.org
2. Save the URL link in the address bar as you will need it to re-access the Bitcoin wallet (if you close the page and don't save the URL you will lose access to that bitcoin address)
3. Make a copy of the string of text under 'Your Bitcoin address':
Example: My new address created for the benefit of this post is this: 1F2vaLqrgCjxjhK4bYBdFnzAmuaSigsemp
4. Visit a few of the sites listed here (simple enough starting point): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74046.0
5. On each site, paste your new Bitcoin address into the relevant text box (complete the captcha as needed).
6. Wait a few hours and you will eventually get some Bitcoins (well fractions thereof to be more specific). Payouts are batched by site ops to minimise transaction fees.
7. Done, enjoy the free bits of anonymous cryptocurrency (or rinse and repeat 4-6 as I do on occasion) :)
Optional: If you still think they are worthless after doing all the above; then send them to me at that address (other donations also welcome): 1F2vaLqrgCjxjhK4bYBdFnzAmuaSigsemp
Come to think of it; ZH should open their own account so people could do just that (The TDs are/is welcome to copy-paste this post and edit in their address).
Sure it ain't much (unlike 'free money' schemes though it ain't a Ponzi, and certainly much more difficult to "Corzine" than those segregated accounts ZH has reminded you of on occasion =) ) but it is better than nothing, with the bonus of being almost (or if you use a VPN and other things simply is completely) anonymous without the risks posed with the existing currency system (PayPal alone makes me wary of them all). No ties at all to your existing fiat currency accounts (or well the deep storage investments at the bottom of Lake Tipp-e-canoe) either, and again note the lack of a need of personal ID to open that wallet? Brilliant ponzi (ID theft scheme) eh?!?
But-but-but "Ponzi" said the Xenofrog?
Save the expense of a little of your time and resources used in the above (less than that spent by XenoFrog "composing" the numerous posts under this topic, let alone everyone else that had to read them <I will accept payment of 1 BTC as compensation /sarcasm > ) you don't lose a single bloody thing. No name and personal ID asked for (and if you really need to; use a proxy/VPN to hide your IP also), nothing given except that little free Bitcoin address made today were you to follow the brief and simple instructions listed in this simple little post on ZH (not even that is at risk if you simple make another account on Instawallet, or other choice of Bitcoin storage - even a local .dat file were you to use the official program here: http://bitcoin.org - and transfer those coins to such a new address ). =/
In fact; I do say transacting in Bitcoins is much safer then I have ever been zapping fiat from a segregated bank account (along with the ID attached to that account, not needed on that Bitcoin address remember?) and that's coming from someone who was skeptical about them a few weeks ago. Of course we do all know the real reason the Fed's are pissed off at Bitcoins is the lack of transparency (now that is ironic) as seen by a little thing called Silk Road (I don't partake fwiw) but lets leave that topic to those more gifted in the exposure of such things (another nod to the TD's of ZH).
And once more with feeling; Bitcoins are a utility and not something I would heavily invest in (maybe a small float for transactions similar in nature to those extra funds put aside for one off emergencies). IMO It is to cyber purchases what Gold is to the coming economic apocalypse, nothing more and nothing less.
Bitcoin companies are working to bring the mt.gox platform to forex b/d's. That's why you should pay attention. Plus Coinlab just created a james bond like security system to keep large amounts of bitcoins safe for those that want to go long. And trust me some hedge funds are already doing it
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/coinlab-bringing-bitcoin-to-wall-street-with-mtgox-deal/