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February's Strange Divergence In Precious Metals

Tyler Durden's picture




 

February has been an odd month for precious metals to say the least. On-again, off-again fears of Bernanke removing the punchbowl (and endless sell-side strategists discussing Great Rotations and the end of the gold cycle) have led to prices for gold and silver sliding notably. However, while all this price deterioration has been going on, demand for physical gold and silver has surged - entirely disconnecting from January's apparent demand-to-price correlation - and Silver set to break all-time record demand highs for a February. We know who was buying in January, as Reuters reports Russia and Turkey were significantly adding to their bullion reserves; and while the divergence between demand and price coincided with Chinese New Year - leaving a large marginal buying nation on the sidelines - we suspect the drop is more to do with hedge fund reflexive selling - now caught offside. It seems at least one smart player was using lower prices to build their stack; manipulation or no manipulation.

 

Cumulative demand for Gold vs Spot price... (corrected)

 

Cumulative demand for Silver vs Spot price (corrected)

 

and this month looks set to see the biggest demand for silver (for a Feb) ever...

 

Source: Bloomberg and US Mint

(H/t Alex Gloy)

 

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Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:40 | 3278447 SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

In other precious metals divergence news, according to a Cincinnati 5/3rd branch manager, a CIA agent confiscated 2 dozen gold krugerrands stored in a safety deposit box a Cincy man inherited from his grandfather, but left all fiat notes in the box.
Anecdotal account, but wouldn't be surprised that stealth federal gold confiscation has already begun

http://www.silverdoctors.com/gold-confiscation-begins-report-of-2-dozen-...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:43 | 3278458 Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

Ok they took the Gold and left the Fiat.

So it was either an Asian, a Russian, an Indian, or a Zerohedger.

Come on people..fess up.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:43 | 3278461 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

Corporations create backwardation... the CEO's and politicians picking up the physical.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:49 | 3278480 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

The warped minds at the COMEX think lower prices = less demand.  Absolute brilliance..... keep it up, please.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:52 | 3278493 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

LOL - He should have just bought generic gold bars. He would have lost less.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:54 | 3278504 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Speaking of genric gold bars.  Anybody heard of OPM?  

On this page: http://www.pmbull.com/gold-price/

I keep thinking "Other People's Money" and can't help but think it is a new business founded by Corzine.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:55 | 3278508 Stackers
Stackers's picture

The papers futures markets need to be gutted and overhauled. The tail is officially wagging the dog.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:01 | 3278524 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

You should always keep gold-plated tungsten bars in the places likely to be searched by federal governement agents.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:22 | 3278619 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

This is what the endgame looks like. There is now lawlessness on every conceivable level, the investing public is about to get royally screwed, those that planned ahead and stashed their gold, are getting it stolen by the government, those that invested in futures are getting their life savings stolen by the banks, only physical gold and silver in your own possession will survive what is  coming.

 To say the very least, it won't be much longer, charts like that don't lie. There is no possible way to sustain this price.

 My biggest fear, is that they are going to collapse the entire system long before they release the metals.

 There will be nowhere to run, and nowhere to hide. That appears to be the plan.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:01 | 3278810 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Russia was buying from itself (as usual).

Gold demand was down yoy 2012-2011 by 4%.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:08 | 3279844 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

HEYHEYHEYHEY, every once in a while I come back and drop some knowledge:

 

 

SEE HOW THAT SHIT SAYS US MINT? 

If you are gonna own gold and silver, its best to do it under another name, or purchase from the general public / or a regular name brand.  Why you would want to own us mint gold and silver?  IDK, that certainly seems more trackable...

 

 

Now anyone with half a fucking brain, understands that what makes gold and silver money, is that they are gold and silver.  not that they have text written on them.  The text helps to assure their validity.

 

So, their being from the US mint DOES NOT ADD VALUE, unless you have a flood of fucking morons who will pay top dollar for us mint g&s.  So while all the idiots were buying expensive us mint g&s, all the smart people were either already long or long a cheap regular brand.

Now

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:10 | 3279847 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

but to be honest, there's a reason i stopped posting on zh, and its b/c it became overrun with idiots.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:46 | 3278724 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

the pile of dog shit controls the dog by remote control

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:05 | 3278547 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ AllThatGlitters

OPM = Ohio Precious Metals

OPM had an ad in the recent debut issue of American Hard Assets.  They apparently are (one of?) America's only COMEX good delivery suppliers.  Here is their website:

opmmetals.com

Tulving sells their 1 kg gold bars.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:26 | 3278633 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Cool, thanks DoChen

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:52 | 3278496 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Otherwise, They Would Just Name Themselves PAPERMAN Sacks ...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:50 | 3278483 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

SackMan Gold Wants Your GOLD!

We Hear All The Bullshit, Buy Sell, Butt They WANT Your GOLD, Period.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:53 | 3278487 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Divergence in precious metals = this scenario here: [2nd sentence of 1st paragraph]...

~~~

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-26/if-you-ask-right-questions-you-might-find-right-answers#comment-3277202

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:13 | 3278582 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Ok they took the Gold and left the Fiat.

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:52 | 3279625 akarc
akarc's picture

Kinda like they leave the guns but take the bullets.

rc

http://www.bigbendbikersforfreedom.com/

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:43 | 3278460 redpill
redpill's picture

There are a lot of things wrong with that story.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:51 | 3278489 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Possibly the story teller's version of 'I lost all my Gold in a boating accident'?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:54 | 3278501 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Funny Simon black says keep it in a safety deposit box in a foreign country. So when you wake up in a cold sweat and think it's gone (every week) you have to jump a flight and take a week off work to check.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:14 | 3278573 akak
akak's picture

Folks, for the last time, it is a "safe deposit box", NOT a "safety deposit box"!  It is a box for making safe deposits, not a box for depositing safety!  (Unless somebody has figured out how to store safety in a box.)

That's as bad as hearing people talking about "PIN numbers" and "ATM machines" and "I could care less".

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:16 | 3278597 redpill
redpill's picture

Irregardless, we should literally touch basis and flush this list of annoying misuses out.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:22 | 3278622 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

it is anything but a safe or safety deposit box so i don't exactly give a shit about getting it right.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:32 | 3278651 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

Irregardless?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:55 | 3278761 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Yes, its all irregardless.  The point is mute.  And for all intensive purposes one should use more tack when addressing towards another poster.  Its the principle of there issues which effect the affects to.  But their all a climatic allusion too illicite a response from a reader.  Your welcome than.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:59 | 3278799 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Owwww... make it stop....

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:59 | 3278801 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

Bravo sir, bravo.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:04 | 3278833 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

you sure know how to loose your reeders

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:22 | 3278911 akak
akak's picture

Their all lost anyways.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:04 | 3279144 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

They've all gone rouge.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:07 | 3279158 akak
akak's picture

Your write.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:09 | 3279173 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Theirs always a first time.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:43 | 3279328 Titan Uranus
Titan Uranus's picture

You have a nother thing coming.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:07 | 3279449 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

Its not quiet what won wood think of as an example, for instantaneous, Michelangelo painting the Sixteenth Chapel, or Magellan circumventing the globe. Of coarse, extra century perception is, in today's world, the prodigal wolf in cheap clothing.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:18 | 3279700 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

vulpis is the prodigal wolf in cheap emperor's clothing!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 22:12 | 3280285 Ctrl_P
Ctrl_P's picture

Gentlemen, well done.

A dam fine discourse regarding our mother's tongue. Funny enough, none in our family had they're mouthes washed out with soap for fowl language.

 

http://www.explosm.net/comics/2712/

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 00:24 | 3280755 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana!

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:29 | 3279269 bilbert
bilbert's picture

Oh, man - after THAT blast I need to get myself orientated!!

As to Safe vs. Safety, I believe the point is mute.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:30 | 3279270 bilbert
bilbert's picture

 

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 00:25 | 3280757 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, so it is! :>D

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:35 | 3279296 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Irregardless is not a word

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:28 | 3279543 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

What? Yes it.  I got taught it at University. And don't you not know that? Do a search.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:19 | 3278600 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Tell that to the relatives of Scotia Mocatta.  And BTW.... you're richer than you think, you know.  Go buy something.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:25 | 3278629 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I don't need your stinking permission to buy stuff I don't need with money I don't have. :)

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:28 | 3278641 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

lol, COMEX instituting price controls, now Scotiamocatta imposing quantity controls.  From the bottom of this page:

* Please note that there is a C$9500.00 purchase limit per 24 hour period (this limit is subject to change based on market volatility).

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:59 | 3278798 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

'However, there is no shortage, and we expect prices to be significantly lower this year, so really, why even bother buying...'

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:50 | 3279055 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That is suspiciously short of the $10K reporting requirement.  Must be a tangential message there.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:12 | 3279857 TheProphet
TheProphet's picture

You should investigate the exchange rate.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:55 | 3278778 Likstane
Likstane's picture

Shouldn't it be called a "safe area box" ?  A safe deposit box sounds to me as a place to store safes. 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:00 | 3278806 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

No matter what they call it, including the word 'safe' or any derivative thereof is extremely misleading.  I mean, they're in BANKS for fuck sake, I can't think of a LESS safe place to leave valuables.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 00:26 | 3280760 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, do canoes do it for ya? :>D

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:27 | 3278932 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Thanks, and while your are at it: UFO's

"I saw a UFO" - no you didn't, you identified the opject - it was not an un-identified flying opject aka UFO

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:46 | 3279346 Titan Uranus
Titan Uranus's picture

WHAT?  Do you mean it's iimpossible to see a UFO?  Or do you just say, "I saw an FO and I think it's not identified yet?"

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:54 | 3279631 akarc
akarc's picture

Am assuming the box was in a bank meaning it wasn't a safe anything. It was just a box.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:36 | 3278669 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Simon Black says that you can always have your local CIA contacts muscle into the local bank manager's "hacienda" and terrorize his family until he confirms the deposit status, I mean, if you really need to check. 

Besides that, there are quantum viewing devices (green, of course) that allow you to peer through the earth's crust on a refractory basis and penetrate bank vaults to approx. 1cm accuracy, assuming you've implanted a neutron GPS transmitter chip in your PM of choice.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:44 | 3278712 redpill
redpill's picture

We can't all be rising stars at West Point

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:51 | 3279372 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Safe deposit boxes simply allow the PTB to confiscate more wealth during a bank holiday, thanks Simon.

They are to physical what bonds are to paper

Centralization of confiscation bitchez...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:03 | 3278518 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

yeah,

There are a lot of things wrong with that story.

like, ...it was fabricated;  but they got suckers go to their  website.  coohl.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:19 | 3278609 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

These are not the suckers you're looking for. Move along.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:15 | 3278887 RockRiver
RockRiver's picture

why would a CIA agent give a shit about 12 Krugs.?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:55 | 3279635 akarc
akarc's picture

Because maybe all them gold bars ain't worth shit? Well, more than the price of tungsten anyway.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:15 | 3278888 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Have the people who make this crap up ever worked in a bank?  You know, the corner, retail branch kind of a bank?  You cannot touch a safe deposit box without a key or a warrant. 

The "CIA" is not going to walk into a domestic bank and try to take stuff out of a box unless they have a key or a warrant.  And the CIA ain't gonna get a domestic warrant.

Branch managers are like rabid dogs about this crap.

I call bullshit.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:00 | 3279645 akarc
akarc's picture

I call Bullsit too.

Because we all know that the CIA always plays by the rules and even if they didn't Bank Managers would give their lives to save the integrity of their banks.

And besides, I just like to call Bullshit. Often times for no reason.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:26 | 3279536 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

"It seems at least one smart player was using lower prices to build their stack; manipulation or no manipulation." Thank you, glad someone noticed me!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:40 | 3278448 localsavage
localsavage's picture

Looks like everyone figured out that if you can't touch it, it doesn't exist.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:13 | 3278581 flacon
flacon's picture

I farted on my gold. Do you still want it Mr. CIA? 

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:39 | 3278684 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Questions to the crew, on the topic of farting up your gold:

-how much of the gold supply could be irradiated somehow,
-is that a valid identifier / marker of say a certain mass of gold that may carry in spite of various refining tricks to eliminate chemical signatures, and if so,
-what are the odds that my little RCM ducat is irradiating my frozen peas as we speak?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:11 | 3278865 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

"Hot" gold, that is, irradiated by neutrons to another isotope (which doesn't decay back into gold) only has a few day half life.  You'd have to get it *damn* hot to make a marker that would last for years.

And, getting it that hot would give you other (safe handling) problems for awhile after you did it.

I know, because I really am a fusion researcher, and we use gold to integrate our neutron production for measurement.  At our levels, no significant gold is lost, and once it cools back off - you can use it again.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:33 | 3278964 akak
akak's picture

So, DCFusor, what IS the state of fusion research nowadays?  What kind of fusion research are you involved in? And can you comment on this "focus fusion" that I remember reading about on the internet that was supposed to herald a radically new, safe, cheap, efficient and small-scale means of power production?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:40 | 3278450 Squishi
Squishi's picture

you can't get there from here

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:41 | 3278453 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

paper squeeze coming round the corner.. a rally all day all night kind of affair...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:43 | 3278457 Sach Mahoney
Sach Mahoney's picture

Soros buying now

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:47 | 3278475 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If Soros is buying physical gold, I would very much appreciate a link, thank you.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:54 | 3278503 Sach Mahoney
Sach Mahoney's picture

was saying sarcastically.  It seems whenever gold makes a big move or sustained move, up or down, the press always seem to blame Soros. It's never fundamental. 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:03 | 3278539 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

lol i never noticed it but now that you mention it, it seems so obvious, thanks!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:44 | 3278466 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

the sell off in gold was a golden gift.....folks should have been buying with both hands and both feet...just like the chinese.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:50 | 3278481 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Damn right.  As soon as I saw the price getting pummeled I reserved a rental box-truck to back up to the coin shop.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:55 | 3278505 Sach Mahoney
Sach Mahoney's picture

BTFD

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:46 | 3278472 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If this trend continues (physical demand, more scarcity, yet lower paper prices), then the Minsky Moment may be near us soon.  I cannot understand why only 1% (max 3%) of people own physical gold.  Physical gold is one of the few safe harbors in these difficult times, which IMO are only going to get worse.

Paper gold crashing yet physical demand going up.  Wait until the SELLERS of physical decline to sell at all.

$55,000...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:52 | 3278492 Sach Mahoney
Sach Mahoney's picture

Agree, physical is the true safe harbor.  But in reality, it is not very mobile, not so safe and easy to store, not very convenient, e.g. time and expense to ship....so it is more about the practicality of owning physical that gets in the way

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:04 | 3278540 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Oil and uranium are much easier to store.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:44 | 3278701 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

So are Cadillac Escalades.

edit: sorry, I thought you said "easier to stuff".

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:02 | 3279426 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Hide your " oil" in your cars engine

The bastards will never think to look for it there...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:19 | 3278605 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Plus you can't eat gold, and you can fondle it all you like, but it won't respond.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:43 | 3278703 thewayitis
thewayitis's picture

Can you eat dollars idiot? Also, you can sell gold/silver as easily as equities. And you don't have to wait for the check. CASH in hand. Its not too late to jump on the train .......

 GOLD bitchez.....

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:56 | 3278788 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

/sarc

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:02 | 3278818 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

It's ok. I think most of us got it.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:56 | 3278744 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Your money used to be redeemable in Silver. Not too bulky.

http://www.fastcoin.com/images/one-hundred-silver-certificates-41707.jpg

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:39 | 3279591 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

I know you're bein sarcastic, but you need to add <sarc> @ the end of your post so you don't get throttled. And by the way, I can stuff 50 Pamp Suisse 1 ouncers (approx. $100,000) in my pockets with ease and am very fucking mobile. AND, my nice .45ACP Glock model 36 keeps it nice and safe. Any other questions Baloney?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:26 | 3279927 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Plus it sinks if you have a boating accident. At least paper has a chance of floating....

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:55 | 3278507 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

 I cannot understand why only 1% (max 3%) of people own physical gold.

 

 

Could you repeat that?  I was listening to Snooki talk about her new baby.  

Something about Gold's Gym and being physical?  

Never mind...Ellen is coming on.  

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:05 | 3278532 akak
akak's picture

Gold? 

Is that like "Here Comes Honey BooBoo" and "My Redneck Vacation" and "Searching for Bigfoot" being TV gold?

Hey, if it's not good enough for Oprah and Dr. Oz to endorse on the air, then it's not good enough for me.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:06 | 3278548 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

+1.  It's not like Tom Cruise is jumping on Oprah's couch over gold.  

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:18 | 3278604 akak
akak's picture

Besides that, I keep all my money secure in the bank --- I mean, it's not like they aren't the safest place for it, and aren't looking out for me.  Never trust yourself when you can trust somebody else, especially a large Wall Street corporation.  Just like the government, they always know what's best.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:07 | 3278845 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Yes, same here.  And I store my booze with the drunk who lives over the vent up the street (because who knows better about how to look after booze) and my dope with the dealer across town (for the same reason).  ALWAYS trust the professionals

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:09 | 3278854 akak
akak's picture

How lucky we are to live in the best of all possible worlds!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:58 | 3279111 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Heard one o' them thar financial wizard guys who "manages" lots of OPM that one shouldn't invest (sic) in gold because its volatility is based on emotion.   Seems to me that he made the exact case FOR owning the stuff.  Where is the sanity?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:08 | 3278555 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

I cannot understand why only 1% (max 3%) of people own physical gold.

Well, some talking head on CNBC the other day explained it. His point is that gold is not backed by anything. You know, unlike fiat money which *head explodes*

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:02 | 3279114 rwl160
rwl160's picture

heres a news report.. from 2011 gold is not backed by anything

cute newscaster though.

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLL2r3hXmjA

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:50 | 3278473 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Good thing I bought both Gold and Silver on the dip.

Fuck the Central Banks and Bankers.

That is why I bought.

I voted!

p.s. - Tyler(s) - I have noticed an absolute media blitzkrieg by Allianz trying to bring in retirement money crowd, something fishy there, reminds me of the "Lind/Walldock" commercials on CNBC after MF Global bought them and shortly before Corzine vaporized people's money.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:11 | 3278568 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

Someone mentioned "Generali is broke" in a comment the other day, without providing a link or further info. Allianz owns Generali (and Pimco, btw), they are a HUGE company and should they be in trouble it would create a major hick-up in global financial markets, similar to AIG.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:29 | 3278637 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-25/hung-parliament-btp-sell-jpm-sa...

One out of four Europeans has some kind of insurance at Generali.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:56 | 3278784 knukles
knukles's picture

So one in four of Europeans do own gold, eh?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:15 | 3278890 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Nice one. Should own gold...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:34 | 3278974 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Actually, when I was digging around looking for figures about who owns how much gold, I found out that Germans privately own about as much gold as the German gov't owns (in the neighborhood of 7 or 8000 tons) - and as far as I know, they don't store it in New York, so no repatriation issues there.  This 'why would I want to own gold' attitude seems to be unique to North America.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:48 | 3278478 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

"Captain, we have an anomaly." -Commander GATA, USS Enterprise.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:49 | 3278479 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Bonds are outperforming gold in February but everybody here thinks only goldbugz r smart.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:51 | 3278486 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

How many months in your life or that of your children?  Go right ahead and hold all the paper promises you like.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:00 | 3278519 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That's brilliant...judge performance by one month's price action. Stocks outperformed bonds in the last few nano seconds...let's chase them.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:06 | 3278616 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Bonds are outperforming gold in February but everybody here thinks only goldbugz r smart.

*************

Good point buzz-bonds and gold seem to mirror each other-look at the yield drop in 2001 and gold break out of a bear market at the exact same time and both trend lines (inverse) are still in play-

Both reflecting extreme credit risk--has little to do with the dollar-

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/WTP30A28

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2012/02/Gold-LT1.png

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:50 | 3278482 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Similar divergences are occuring all over the place.  Seems that any physical asset (especially revenue generating) of real value is getting bid hard.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:51 | 3278484 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

February has been an extremely good month for me. I welcome the opportunity to exchange my fiat for precious metals at a lower price.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:01 | 3278523 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"Mr. Bernanke can you please blah blah blah....."

Bernak: "I'm printing money bitchez."

"Mr. Chairman, regarding the exit strategy can you rabble rabble rabble"

Bernak: "You dumb fcks I said I am printing money...bitchez..."

"Chairman Bernanke can you tell us barf barf barf....."

Bernak: "Gdammit I said I am printing money!!!??? Forever!!!!....Bitchez????

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:54 | 3278499 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

It looks like we had capitulation in the gold market on February 20th. The bottom is in! Time to start buying.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:54 | 3278500 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

any rec on where to buy physical PMs?  i see the banners on all these sites, but simple DD on each shows all sorts of ripoff report and BBB issues.  dont know where to turn....and dont want my broker to do it for me and hold in their "vault"....

is the PM IRA worth it if i'm using someone else's - albeit indy - vault?

i'm racing to get up to speed...thanks for any genuine input.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:01 | 3278513 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

All I have to say is that if you can't touch it you don't own it. Gold in a "vault" can be vaporized just as easily as futures contracts at an exchange.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:03 | 3278535 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Doc you seen whiteshadowmovement? That was an interesting visit. I am surprises at how fast he disappeared. I am starting to wonder if he was going for a doctorate in behavioral finance or something and this was material for his thesis of studying gold bugs or something....

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:06 | 3278550 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

No I haven't seen him. I thought it was odd he disappeared too. I have been very busy lately and haven't been on the Hedge much so I figured I was just not seeing him post.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:09 | 3278558 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I just looked for his comments and go "access denied".

weird.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:11 | 3278566 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Yeah I did the same thing. I usually only get that on people's accounts like Tyler's.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:07 | 3278846 knukles
knukles's picture

a gubamint troll seeking out the subversives, putting their names on a list along with incriminating comments, no doubt

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:18 | 3278895 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I don't doubt anything anymore.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:25 | 3278921 seek
seek's picture

That happened when there's a rare "hard" ban on the person. A handful of others have had that happen.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:41 | 3279763 knukles
knukles's picture

Seek.  What's a "hard" ban?
Like ejected and erased from memory?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:01 | 3278526 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

localsavage put it best in his comment above - "if you can't touch it, it doesn't exist."  

I would go compare the price over spot of the PM dealers in your area and go make a cash transaction.  That way you have metal in hand and no paper trail.  

Just don't take your gold on any boating trips.  You may lose it.  

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:10 | 3278563 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

Gainesville Coin in Lutz, FL (a suburb of Tampa basically) has never caused me any grief. I place my order on their website and pay with a credit card. I still can't believe I can buy physical pm's with a "promise" to pay my card issuer someday. I  live close enough to pick up the goods in person. No problems so far and their prices and selection are at least as good as any I have seen.

http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/

I have no affiliation with these guys - just a satisfied customer.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 19:17 | 3279694 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Not so sure I would use a credit card in the US for gold purchases.

The Govt. can easily get the dealers merchant account records.

All being recorded on NSA computers for future confiscation possibly.

If I had any PM's ,I would have purchased them from a foreign dealer with

a US subsid.Pay them in their home country from a third country ,and they are

delivered here by the subsid. without paperwork.Thats me though, most here  don't

have offshore accounts,so cash at a coinshop is best,but do your homework on the dealer.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:21 | 3279204 rwl160
rwl160's picture

 find a local coin dealer...thats what i do in my area.. i've bought from gainesville, westminster mint , provident metals.with no problems


my local coin dealer is usually the same price or better and no delivery charges

 i go in and trade my fiat dollars  for PM's

no tax, no register wrung up and no paper trail receipts

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:13 | 3279861 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Same experience. My guy buys silver for 85% of spot and sells for spot.

Happy to trade Fiat for real money.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 18:56 | 3279598 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

https://comparesilverprices.com/

http://comparegoldprices.com/

They don't list dealers that have minimum purchases, but you can get an idea of who has the best prices on what and check against other unlisted dealers.

Texas Precious Metals is owned by a real metals company that make real metal shit like barbed wire. How weird is that?

Fast and free shipping.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:55 | 3278506 Stuart
Stuart's picture

Paper driven prices. Paper has to be at least 100:1 behind real bullion.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:56 | 3278510 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Au & Ag, bitchez!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:57 | 3278512 DowTheorist
DowTheorist's picture

This is why GLD's inventory is being drained.

GLD lost yesterday (Feb 25) 7.82 tonnes of gold. Thus, inventories have been declining for 5 days in a row. All in all, inventories have declined from 1322.97 tons to 1272.85 tonnes, that is 50.12 tonnes or 3.78%.

 

Contrary to conventional wisdom, declining inventories for GLD are bullish for gold as it is explained here:

 

http://www.dowtheoryinvestment.com/2013/02/dow-theory-update-for-feb-21-...

 

with an update here:

 

http://www.dowtheoryinvestment.com/2013/02/dow-theory-update-for-feb-25-...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:13 | 3278578 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Also, IIRC, if you check the bylaws of GLD, large (i.e VERY large) position holders are allowed to close their position out in physical bullion.

If you have a shit-ton of dollars that you want to convert to physical, and don't trust the futures market, GLD is your huckleberry.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:57 | 3278514 Irelevant
Irelevant's picture

Paper gold price is going to zero.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:10 | 3278564 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

That is about the right value for paper gold.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:02 | 3278531 malikai
malikai's picture

This last month has been awesome for Gold and Silver.

http://blog.quantsig.net/2013/02/26/goldsilver-feb-2013/

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:03 | 3278536 fuu
fuu's picture

StAcK It Up BiTcHeZ!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:03 | 3278538 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Part of the grand plan...once China and Russia have sucked up most of the PMs, Goldman will declare that they are not "precious" any more and that the world will start to value salt, nutmeg and clamshells again...New Normal, things not going your way, change the rules of the game.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:02 | 3278820 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

To be fair, if one does not have a source of salt, salt can become very valuable.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:07 | 3278551 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

As much as I would enjoy seeing 32 million ounces of silver indicated as "sold in Feb" at the US Mint's website, there "only" are roughly 3 million.

http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/?action=sales&year=2013

I wonder were the number in the above graph comes from

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:02 | 3278819 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Good point. And Feb is much lower than Jan. 

Maybe those stats are fake too.

Keep stacking...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:09 | 3278562 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Still closing out stocks...just can't trust the books. Have you read any 10k 10q of the banks? 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:17 | 3278602 besnook
besnook's picture

pretty simple. if i wanted physical gold cheap i would pound the etf short and buy the physical while playing the arbitrage in the paper market to my advantage because i have the juice to do it, stupid yankee dog.china and russia are doing you a big favor. buy all you can but buy unconfiscatable stuff like junk jewelry. the anti-santa claus(he sees you when you are sleeping, he knows when you are awke, he knows if you have been good or bad, so be good for goodness sake and give everything to santa. it belongs to him anyway) .gov will take everything from you and the constitution says it is okay a la fdr

there are reports war in iran is planned for june. that should frothyize the pm market. kinda fits. the aussies say the commodity market is heating up. china is hoarding because the euro market is dead, chinamart is fretting in the usa and japan trade is way down. then there is the ruble/yuan exclusive deal, fighting now in lebanon between joe quaeda and hezbollah, escalating african wars, greece is totally socially and politically unraveled with italy mocking the banksters with a comedian and a rogue billionaire. and then there is the bernank and the zions dubstep machine. this is the year of the snake, the beginning of the age of aquarius and the end of the 26000 year mayan cycle. this is the end and the beginning, the phoenix. we are fucked.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:25 | 3278632 css1971
css1971's picture

Um... This is bog standard economics. if you sell something too cheap you run out.

If you control the price there will be shortages.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:11 | 3278870 knukles
knukles's picture

Look what happened to Twinkies

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:28 | 3278640 stateside
stateside's picture

Time to bring back this "timeless" classic about gold backing.  Ok....at least she's cute.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLL2r3hXmjA

 

stateside

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