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If You Ask The Right Questions You Might Find The Right Answers

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Mark J. Grant, author of Out of the Box,

The Right Questions
 
“Very few beings really seek knowledge in this world. Mortal or immortal, few really ask. On the contrary, they try to wring from the unknown the answers they have already shaped in their own minds -- justifications, confirmations, forms of consolation without which they can't go on. To really ask is to open the door to the whirlwind. The answer may annihilate the question and the questioner.”
 
                             -Anne Rice

 
One of the reasons mistakes are made, and often serious mistakes, are because the right questions are not asked. If you ask the wrong questions then the answers, even if answered correctly, will lead you to the wrong conclusions. What we are seeing in Italy this morning is a good example of asking and answering the small questions when the larger questions are vastly more important. If you read the news and analysis in the Press today you will find many opinions about the Italian elections and what they mean to Italy and this is the small question. The bigger question, and the correct focus, is what the Italian elections means for the European Union and its survival. That is what is really important now and that is what we should be trying to understand this morning.
 
“The question is not what you look at but what you see.”
 
                                     -Thoreau
 
Basically Berlusconi represents a return to Nationalism and a repudiation of the measures imposed upon Italy by Berlin/Brussels (The European Union). Grillo represents something stronger which is a total rejection of Berlin/Brussels (The European Union) and a demand that Italy return to self-governance.  Grillo’s party won more votes than any other party and taken together, Berlusconi’s coalition and the 5 Star Party won the vast majority of votes at just under sixty percent. Yes, there are other national issues such as corruption and nepotism and so forth that relate strictly to the political situation in Italy but again, these are the small questions and far less significant to the central question of what will happen to the European Union as a result of the vote of the Italian people.
 
I first direct your consideration to this; if it can happen in Italy then why not in Greece, Spain, Portugal or France? People in other countries will take heart from Grillo’s attempt and then success and the mob may begin to stir. However Italy is going to work out and whatever alliances may be made or whether there will be a second vote; the writing is emblazoned now clearly on the wall which declares opposition to living under the dictums handed down from other countries and enforced by the money that may or not be parceled out to the Italian nation. This is clearly defined by the total rejection of Monti and the Brussels/Berlin austerity measures that he put in place. The vote for Monti at just under ten percent is a ringing condemnation of the European Union by the people of Italy. In fact I would say that the Italian elections are exactly what the European Union has feared most, the very most, which is the rejection of the Brussels/Berlin governance by those who ultimately matter which are the people of a nation. I think it can now be said with a good degree of accuracy that the Italian people took a long hard look at the European Union and voted, “NO!”
 
What most people have not grasped yet, but the dawning will come, is that a Referendum has just taken place in Italy. All of the political upheaval in Italy was caused by anger and frustration with the European Union and their policies. This is what drove the election and not to appreciate this is a serious mistake. The EU is now cornered. This is the third largest nation in the Union and the voters, the people, have just turned out a majority that clearly and resolutely said “Basta!” (Enough!). I would say that how all of any of this works itself out is anyone’s guess now but I would also say that what has happened, like a wife catching her husband with another woman, will forever change the relationship. If the bureaucrats and technocrats in Brussels wanted to know what Dante’s Inferno looked like they have only to pay attention this morning. They can stare at it now.
 
“But the stars that marked our starting fall away. We must go deeper into greater pain, for it is not permitted that we stay.”
 
                -Dante, The Inferno

 

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Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:25 | 3277117 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Mark, "What most people have not grasped yet, but the dawning will come, is that a Referendum has just taken place in Italy" that is just wrong

it's an election, not a referendum

but it's ok, I can understand if you don't see the difference - political ignorance is after all very, very fashionable, nowadays

your conflation of EU issues and Monti's, Berlusconi's and Grillo's stances is utterly pityful

in May or June Italy might vote again, I wonder what you'll be writing, then

meanwhile Italy's political landscape is not very different from the post-berlusconi moment of last year

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:28 | 3277129 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

You just don't get it.  You're quibbling over definitions and completely misses the point.

 

Congratulations to the sane Italians.  May this be the first of many cracks in the EU dike. 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:34 | 3277146 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I don't get it? I'm following Italian politics since the 70's. I also bloody personally know Beppe Grillo, from before he went into politics

does the above look like Mark listened to what Beppe talked for hours in the EU Parliament? I did

clueless, simply clueless

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:54 | 3277207 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Dude, maybe you're just not that fluent in English.  The meaning of Mark Grant's sentence was clear; the Italian ELECTION was also a REFERENDUM on the EURO Project.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:58 | 3277226 redpill
redpill's picture

Regardless, this piece is pretty weak.  Trot out three cliche quotes from Anne Rice, Thoreau, and Dante to delineate four paragraphs of factless and meandering assertions about the state of EU politics based upon one round of Italian voting?  Please.  The EU is cornered?  Give me a break, the assholes in Brussels are just getting warmed up.  Usually Mr. Grant provides a half decent read but in this case it seems as though he just mailed it in.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:00 | 3277234 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Right on all counts.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:38 | 3277356 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Which country will be the first to escape the Europonzi?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:10 | 3277514 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

No 'American' in Europe wants out of the Europonzi.

What 'americans' living in Europe are angry at: that their nation-state is putting between them and joining the Europe 'american' dream.

Countries will be undone in order for this dream to come true.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:50 | 3278730 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

 

 

No problem w/ Grant's article or his take on the outcome of the election.

 

What is likely? Italians have passed from poor government to technocrat failure to 'zero-government' which is factionalism and chaos. Zero government is endgame of EU hegemony. No more funds/debt repayment can be gained from the Italians (as none can be gained from the Greeks).

 

This election pretty much bankrupts the EU and the Troika IMO. All that is left is spasmotic kicking of EU corpse.

 

Italy has had a strong north-south divide and several competing political traditions, revolving door governments before Berlusconi ... plus resource constraints that are non-negotiable. Italians will clutch their cars and lifestyle as long as possible until ultimate collapse: zero government.

 

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:16 | 3278879 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

imho a bit of an US projection, the "factionalism" part

after all, the Monti government involved a huge amount of multi-partisanship (european version of bi-partisanship) - as usual, in the Italian republic's history

the five-star movement is first against corruption, and second - it depends, a lot. it has a lot of different opinions and rifts about nearly everything else

the Berlusconi coalition is not a slave of his opinion, and differs on many things - with unclear minorities on issues like the EU and the eurozone

the Left has (it pains me to write that) a clearer, more coherent view - and it's pro-EU and pro-EUR

this reflects the fact that in all the EU and the eurozone you might find people like me - moderately in favour of the one or the other

 

if tomorrow two referendums would happen in the US, with those two questions:

A: are you in favour of disbanding the USA?

B: are you in favour of disbanding the FED?

 

then my guess is that the very way of asking like this would puzzle some who then would think that you could not disband the USA without disbanding the FED

not in europe - the EU can exist without the ECB and the ECB can exist without the EU

they are different clubs - different structures - separable and modular

 

the EU could survive even an hyperinflation of the EUR (note though that funnily this is not a currency that is considered in this danger)

the ECB could survive an EU breakup - with the exception of a trade war between ex-treaty-partners (which could happen with the UK, though they use the Pound)

 

and please: I know, the Troika has two of those clubs in "action" for Greece, but the IMF is a completely different kind of organization - regardless from the propaganda

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:34 | 3279291 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Michael Scheuer penned Marching Toward Hell about seven years ago.  In it he quotes six top demographers  who all agree Europe would be dominated by Muslims within short time frame, the only question being how much blood would be spilled.  I think the cause was simple differences in birth rates.

Scheuer is, btw, not an anti-Islam fanatic.  Anti USA policy toward Israel, yes. 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:01 | 3277236 e-recep
e-recep's picture

the user with the moniker ghordius is german as far as i can remember.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:27 | 3277318 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

He said the other day he voted for Berlusconi the last time
around. Maybe he should clarify whether he is an Italian
eligible to vote there or not.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:11 | 3279183 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm quite sure I wrote "supported", not "voted", and fail to see the point

do you know who has a German mother and a Greek father?

HH the Prince of Wales

do you know who has a Dutch mother?

The Vice PM of the UK and leader of the LibDem

do you know who has some German children?

The British UKIP leader and MEP Nigel Farage

plenty of multi-national citizens and subjects, here

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 20:44 | 3279982 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

You are out. Get a new nick.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:26 | 3277268 Acet
Acet's picture

"Dude, maybe you're just not that fluent in English. The meaning of Mark Grant's sentence was clear; the Italian ELECTION was also a REFERENDUM on the European Project."

Here, I corrected it for ya.

 

Just go back up and read the article again. He goes on an on about how it's the Italians showing they're against the EU, not the Euro.

This is where Mark Grant shows his ignorance and prejudices and that he's just another populist speaker spewing out random opinions pulled-out of his ass which are tailored to match the preconceptions of his target audience.

 

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:22 | 3277223 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

Ghordius,

The question is not who you know but what you know.

The Italians appear to have voted en-masse to deal with their financial and fiscal issues another time and through a political system that looks very different from the EU. 


 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:07 | 3278090 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"appear", yes. to those who want to see it this way

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:59 | 3277230 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

I have no doubt that you know more about Italian politics than me, but the point of the article isn't to get down in the weeds about the nuances of the Italians.  The point is that this is a stunning rebuke of the oligarchs in Brussles. 

THAT IS A GOOD THING!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:01 | 3277231 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

Why the Hell does this web site always double post my comments???

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:22 | 3277550 Ctrl_P
Ctrl_P's picture

Just lucky I guess.

Extra privileges??

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:19 | 3277557 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

because you're so damn good?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:05 | 3277248 milanitaly
milanitaly's picture

Grillo with 25% only in Italy can break Euro. What a powerful currency!!!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:07 | 3277256 Acet
Acet's picture

I really love how the article starts by quoting something about how most people start with pre-conceived ideas and just look for answers that fit their preconceptions, and then the article goes and displays exactly that sort of small-mindness.

Even better is how just two comments from top we get an ignorant American that knows nothing about Europe parroting the usual American-MSM, right-wing, US-centric prejudiced view about Europe (and to add insult to injury, accusing Europeans of knowing nothing of Europe) and getting lots of upvotes on it.

Here's news for you: outside the UK, there is no mainstream support in Europe to abandon the EU. Against the Euro, sure, not against the EU. As for the UK, they've always been seen as the most Americanized of Europeans and the media-oligarch-dominated British press has always opposed any political power center they cannot manipulate (and they have zero influence in the EU outside a couple of loudmouth fringe British MEPs).

But hey, don't mind me, I'm just one of those filthy Southern Europeans who is old enough to remember well when my country joined the EU and who lived in two other, very different, EU countries in the meanwhile. What do I know about Europe, right!?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:56 | 3277437 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

The people of nations who are made to pay for this filthy
EU all think otherwise, always did and were never asked.

The re-programming of the populace runs day and night at MSM
but I yet have to meet a sane person from Europe`s producing
side having supported this madness at any time through the
project, no early adapters nor late converters, never.

In the third worldish southern fringe ,
what would you expect ?
Your lousy means of exchange that has your relaxed attitude
to work and life priced in so you are on the receiving end of tourism is replaced by EU high value money for all with a BMW dealership in every coastal town to recycle speculation surplus ?

Are you aware you are the ones who had been had ? Yes, the
Germans will lose all their savings again, nothing new to them so they will just make another Wirtschaftswunder,
who cares ? It was Italian pensioners and recipients of
fixed incomes that got hit first : Half the purchasing
power for a pensioners basket of things to buy after
Euro and that did not include luxuries like eating out
or ice cream at the corner stand, they just quadrupled prices welcoming the new euroly rich !

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:39 | 3278228 Acet
Acet's picture

I'm afraid I have lived a third of my life in The Netherlands, so your assumptions about my "third worldish southern fringe" are a big fail and only show your prejudices.

 

What I know from my aquaintances all over Europe is that almost nobody but the English wants a break-up of the EU.

There are indeed wispers about ending or exiting the Euro. There are also complaints about paying too much for the EU (above all for things like the CAP) in the Northern European countries. None of these means there is support for ending the EU.

What people want is the EU fixed, not destroyed. Even the Brits, for all the rabid anti-EU brainwashing from Murdoch-owned MSM, would still like to keep the EU going as a Free Trade Area.

 

As much as American mainstream media and right-wing blogs simplify their whole argumentation to saying "the EU" or "Europe" (maybe to keep it simple for those that can't point out the location of Belgium in a map), the current fuck-up has a lot more to do with local governments and decison-makers promoting Anglo-Saxon business practices and trying to emulate the "success" (which we now know was all a debt-fueled illusion) of the American and British models than with the EU. Frankly, the only real fuck-up at the EU level was the Euro, all the rest was the making of each country's governments.

Or in simpler terms, if the EU was the problem, why are the US and Japan also fucked-up???

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:42 | 3278422 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Thanks for junking but you Sir, are still a EUSSR moron.
Your third life on some thing in the low lands appreciated,
your twilight whispers about no one ready to leave his youth
prematurely for the real world misses the point.

Your kind is the reason why Europe is dismissed wholesale.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:27 | 3278638 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

(maybe to keep it simple for those that can't point out the location of Belgium in a map)

Are you talking to Americans ? Shit no one in Europe
knows about the secret nationhood of the artificial state of Belgium ! Fuck, the non-nation buffer zone that hosts
the European Parliament ? Get real and plant plenty of trees
for when Europa will remember your resident evil.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:08 | 3278850 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

"Even better is how just two comments from top we get an ignorant American that knows nothing about Europe parroting the usual American-MSM, right-wing, US-centric prejudiced view about Europe (and to add insult to injury, accusing Europeans of knowing nothing of Europe) and getting lots of upvotes on it."

 

Never ... EVER ... complain about votes or even mention them.

 

This is ZeroHedge

 - Gold, Bitchez!

 - Bernanke is Satan,

 - Obama is an escaped convict from Malawi working for the North Koreans,

 - Hyperinflation and currency devaluation,

 - Gold, Bitchez!

 

Put some beats behind it and you can win a Grammy!

 

Okay ... that out of the way ... what's happening in Italy (and France, Greece, Spain and ultimately Germany) is a dynamic not a discrete action. Italy just ended a technocracy which was installed (by Goldman Sachs) to steal what remained in Italy that was left to steal. The Italians didn't cooperate so the technocracy was (and is) DOA (Dead On Arrival).

 

Because Italy was a) broke requiring a technocrat and b) has little left to steal, it will enter the phase called 'zero government' that is, the capitulation of the establishment, its dissolution into factions and chaos.

 

This process is part of the transition to a post-petroleum economy and is inescapable. The ordinary outcome is for countries to become hell-holes like Yemen, Haiti or Somalia. Hopefully Italy can afford this fate but not likely. To do so the Italians have to get rid of all their automobiles.

 


Wed, 02/27/2013 - 07:56 | 3281144 Acet
Acet's picture

This is the fight club - I can complain about whatever I want, even about the Fight Club.

Of course if I did the later, every spinless, knee-jerk little follower sheep around here would vote me down.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:54 | 3278773 Steve Brown
Steve Brown's picture

I'm English and I have spoken with a great many business people over a number of years about the British membership of the EU and any benefits which might stem from that membership. Almost without exception there is a vehement dilike and distrust of the EU and anything tainted by the heavy hand of the EU.

The EUliphant in the room has become much, much more visible with the 'horse-meat in burger (and meatballs and lasagne and mincemeat and meat pies)' scandal. The Environment Secretary Owen Paterson, the one dealing with this matter, has repeatedly and very patiently explained to Parliament and to the Media that he CANNOT ban the importation of foreign meat, he CANNOT order the inspection and testing of imported meat and he CANNOT pursue any action against the foreign suppliers of the contaminated meat.

Why? Because the testing and control of all meat supplies is a EUROPEAN competence, only the EU can inspect and condemn meat supplies which are not of the required standard. The EU did away with the on-the-spot abattoir inspections by British inspectors. Instead the EU substituted a paper trail. If the paperwork was right the meat was considered to be fine. That dishonesty might corrupt their system didn't enter their little pin-heads. It is becoming more and more apparent that it is not just our meat supplies which have been adulterated and/or mislabelled by those who are nothing more than criminals. And there is NOTHING that any so-called 'sovereign' government in the EU can do about it. We are ruled, and ruled badly, by the EU. It is a vastly expensive and unfit-for-purpose organisation and the sooner Britain is out of it the better off the British will be.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:15 | 3278950 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Steve, just a little thing: the Environment Secretary of the UK could explain very patiently to Parliament that they can make a law that forces him to do the inspections and condemnations he talks about and he would have to follow it

of course it would be only an act of courtesy for Prime Minister Cameron to mention this to his collegues in the council

who then would have to think hard if they really want to be against it, and perhaps (and only perhaps) remind him of the UK's treaty obligations

which could then be discussed, amended, whatever - or, if nobody finds a reason why this treaty should be upheld but they still feel the UK has to comply, they could sue the UK in front of the EU courts

we had endless examples of EU countries going in a different way on single issues that were of matter in their national opinion

hell, we even started on many "volunteer only" treaties inside the EU - on request of the UK (btw, an excellent British idea)

the truth is that the British Government is a true master in posing like an helpless kitten in certain EU matters and as a hero against "eurocrat" inroads in others - and Britons don't seem to notice or bother about much

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:07 | 3277498 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I really love how the article starts by quoting something about how most people start with pre-conceived ideas and just look for answers that fit their preconceptions, and then the article goes and displays exactly that sort of small-mindness.
____________________________

That is what 'americans' do: they blame something just to eliminate competition.

'American' articles usually start by denouncing propaganda, just to make room for their own propaganda.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 12:08 | 3277823 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

That is what Chinese citizenism 'AnAnonymists' do: they blame something just to eliminate competition.

'AnAnonymist' comments usually start by denouncing propaganda, just to make room for their own propaganda.

Chinese citizenism nature, which is eternal, renders impossible self indiction despite all evidences.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:45 | 3278179 akak
akak's picture

That is what Chinese  shitizenismistic AnAnonymystics do: they blame the wokked dog in ginger sauce just to eliminate on the side of the road.

AnAnonymystics' comments usually start by denouncing flush toiletry, just to make self-justification for their own public squat-and-squeeze (just as they blame mythical Tibetan slavery for their invasion and annexation of that  non-threatening and peaceful neighboring nation).

Chinese shitizenism nature and AnAnonymysticism, both of which are eternal among Middle Kingdom 'sons of heaven', who hold themselves superior to all 'foreign devils', renders impossible modern hygenic practices despite all beneficial evidence to the contrary.

Alas, alas, three times alas, the Long March of Insanitation begins with a single step into roadside shit, not to mention heaping up mountains of prejudicial scapegoattery and outright bigoted crackedpottery.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:47 | 3278256 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

ROR!

OK, today it was my turn to spit pasta on the screen from laughing very much vigourously.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:37 | 3278443 akak
akak's picture

In the end, raughing out roud is indeed the crustiest bit of the nib of the mattering thing.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 17:14 | 3279193 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Self-imolation is "peaceful?"

Just sayin...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:21 | 3278149 Acet
Acet's picture

I'm sorry mate, but this is just a very common failure of human thinking. Everybody is prone to this one.

(And in fact your "Americanism" spieal is just a different example of exactly the same process)

I reckon some training (be it formal or self-learning) on philosophy (especially skepticism) and psychology helps one recognize this kind of logical self-deceit, but unfortunately no government in the world (be it a so called Democracy or otherwise) is interested in having self-thinking, informed citizens which are more resistant to marketting/propaganda and less likelly to blindly obbey authority, so they push people away from thinking-for-yourself from early childhood.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:28 | 3278177 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Absolutely. Everybody does it. And that is why 'americanism' is such a unique experiment.

It is one of these things that everybody does, did and will do, as 'americans' say.

Just like everybody before 'americans' claimed that there were unalienable human rights including freedom and property and kept slaves or stole continents.

It is not 'americanism', you dumb, it is human nature.

'Americanism' is the natural system.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:52 | 3278277 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Djeeeee, I understand better why some AnAnonymystics label the others as zombies: because they are the zombies.

Apparently, most people are aware of this little fact. Not the host and his guest.

Welcome to Chinese citizenism delusion land.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:03 | 3278308 akak
akak's picture

Woo hoo!

Make me laugh!

Look at the hyperbolic hypocritizenism of the Chinese citizenism blobber-upper, the sheer self-denial, the gross inability to self-indict himself and his disfunctional and authoritarian society for the faults he lays at the doorsteps of his mythical and self-created US 'american' citizens, the raging insanitation of his projectionism of his own and his own society's failings onto others!  Behold the mental Mobius-strip his mind travels as he twists and spins his pretzel logic!  The beauty, the completeness, the masterful brilliance, the all-encompassing scope of it is simply breathtaking!

There is no such thing as 'americanism', you dumb  --- it is your own chinese shitizenism that you truly despise.

Your self-loathing is self-evident.

Carry on.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:06 | 3278533 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

To Acet : Thus spake an expert on self deceit.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:24 | 3277307 cbaba
cbaba's picture

Its not important how successful Grillo will be or you know him or not, its clear that his message is reflected in polls, he represent a change, exit from Euro, his message is always the same, people elected him, Berlusconi is a smart guy, he saw that people are fed up with system and Grillo is leading in polls he changed his rhetoric and got many votes, its the change, italian people are done with the Euro, and  and yes you are clueless....by the way if you know him personally , you should also learn his full name which is Giuseppe.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:36 | 3277645 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Absolutely not.

Message is not reflected.

In 'americanism', you vote servants in, not out.

It is very likely that Italy has reached that stage in 'americanism' when part of the 'american' voting population wants to punish the current incumbent for what they perceived as miservice to them.

Therefore they have no other chances than voting for other candidates.

Give this Grillo guy a round in power: he will do the same as his previous colleagues and that will anger part of the 'american' population that will want to punish him and will vote for another candidate to apply the punishment.

But this simple analysis, driven by the structure of 'americanism', can not be satisfying for an 'american' who will seek relief in a fantasiscal construction.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:12 | 3278356 akak
akak's picture

Absolutely not.

Rationality is not reflected in Chinese citizenism.

In Chinese citizenism, you lock FoxConn workers in, not out.

It is very likely that Chinese citizenism has reached that stage when part of the chinese citizenism non-voting population want to punish the current incumbents for what they perceived as miservice to them.  But having no guns, and no vote, and no voice, where is the possibility?

Therefore they have no other chances than non-voting for other non-candidates.

Give this AnAnonymystic guy a round in power: he will do the same as his previous chinese citizenism colleagues and that will anger part of the chinese citizenism population that will want to punish him and will not vote for another non-candidate to apply the non-punishment.

But this simple analysis, driven by the structure of chinese citizenism, can not be satisfying for an AnAnonymystic who will seek relief in a fantasiscal construction known as 'americanism'.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:20 | 3278134 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you are correct, knowing Grillo is utterly irrelevant. I wrote too fast and got replied even faster. though I also wrote

"does the above look like Mark listened to what Beppe talked for hours in the EU Parliament?"

let me put it this way: the five star movement in it's whole is only mildly euroskeptic, and strongly against corruption

the article tries to give the impression that Italians are overwhelmingly against both clubs, the EU and the EMU, and this is false

even in Berlusconi's party the "resistance" against the EUR is not widespread

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:36 | 3278211 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Without MASSIVE corruption there can be no EU. Saying or implying that Grillo is only against corruption but not necessarily against the EU is like saying that he likes barking but abhors dogs. You can't have the one without the other.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:03 | 3278328 Acet
Acet's picture

Congratulations, you have won this month's prize for the "Most blunt statement with no supporting evidence".

Please provide us with the address to which we can send the artistically arranged fossilized dog turd on a pedestal that you have won as prize.

----

Corruption in Europe is by far biggest at the local level (the oposite level of the EU) and has been going on for thousands of years before the EU came to be. Corruption is about as correlated to the existence of the EU as sunspots are correlated to the smell of the Pope's underwear.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 14:51 | 3278490 nofluer
nofluer's picture

A footnoted referenced dissertation is not required for proof that you have stepped in a fresh dog turd.

(I couched my response in a commodity that you seem to be personally familiar with for ease of understanding.)

Oh... and I have no experience in smelling Catholic underwear. Enjoy your pass-times.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:59 | 3278802 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

So in between ZH fight clubbers, where do you stand ? EUSSR
and the lowest common denominator for you is ?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:38 | 3278997 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm a moderate supporter of the EU though against going further, too much, too fast

I'm a strong supporter of the eurozone - unless some important global factors change, in which case I could become a strong supporter of the freest form of free banking, 100% reserve and segregated in sectors - which would also make gold a different affair from now - in which case being for or against the EUR would be irrelevant

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:46 | 3277706 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

I know Beppe, so I cannot be wrong.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:40 | 3279008 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

no, it just means I have spent hours, if not days, in total, listening to what he has to say

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:28 | 3277130 N. B. Forrest
N. B. Forrest's picture

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:51 | 3277200 redpill
redpill's picture

Can't find anything there to disagree with.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:13 | 3277275 Acet
Acet's picture

I can't see his point.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:31 | 3277138 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Did someone say pasta! ummm..., I'm hungry.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:32 | 3277142 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

go ahead... and the meatballs are on the house!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:41 | 3277166 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Uh... that is not pasta...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:54 | 3277214 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

how how how... don't get onto your horse here...

It's just meatballs...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:59 | 3277229 redpill
redpill's picture

The horse IS the meatballs

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:15 | 3277281 Acet
Acet's picture

Horses run a lot, so they must be in really good shape, so I reckon that horse-meatballs fit one definition of healthy food.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:23 | 3277305 knukles
knukles's picture

And horses eat grass and oats and straw and stuff so they're vegetarian, too!

Hooray!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:38 | 3277355 pods
pods's picture

Just think, years from now when all track and field records are broken, we know why.

You are what you eat.

pods

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:51 | 3277197 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

Did you just say the "p" word?

'Pasta' verboten on Quebec menus

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:03 | 3277476 Jreb
Jreb's picture

The problem with Italian food is that you are hungry 3 days later...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:15 | 3278886 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

 

I dunno about you but whatever I eat I'm hungry seven days later.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:35 | 3277147 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

I don't think he misunderstands the difference between referendum and election.  An election can, and I think in this case did to some extent, be a referendum on policy.  As for the end of the Euro experiment, I am not so sure.  Canada has a similar issue with Quebec.  Economically, it is important but it spends far more than it brings in.  Occasionally it threatens to leave when it thinks it is (or it actually is) getting a raw deal and a new deal is struck.

The more likely out come of this is a "new deal" rather than an end.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:42 | 3277167 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

no, he is just threading on old rails - and yet his conflations give a totally whacked picture of what is happening in Italy (which, on the whole, is not much)

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:42 | 3277372 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I think Ghordius does hava a point, not just with European elections but it's also true with U.S. elections. People pay attention to what politicians say before elections, but what they do after elections can be a completely different story. If the Italian elections represent a move towards Italian self-government then it would be a big deal, but "if" is the key word.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:45 | 3277695 Septicus Maximus
Septicus Maximus's picture

"Conflations", indeed!  +1 !!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:15 | 3277278 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

When you try to look all smart Ghordius, make sure you know how to spell..."Pitiful"

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:30 | 3277329 H E D G E H O G
H E D G E H O G's picture

"that is just wrong it's an election, not a referendum".......don't know if you're asking the BIG question there hombre, looks to me like the Italian people just shouted out in no uncertain terms, FUCK YEU !!!

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:22 | 3278158 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

did they? really? because Mark said so?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:44 | 3277686 Septicus Maximus
Septicus Maximus's picture

+1

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:22 | 3277119 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

The EU is now cornered.

 

They'll let you know what their terms of surrender are.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:19 | 3277556 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

The cool cat in the pic with her arrogant pose is surely
making a stand in what you probably tried to imply !

The dogs are obviously just playing.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:23 | 3277120 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

EU è Basta Bichez!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:17 | 3277285 Acet
Acet's picture

-1 For not being able to put together a sentence that makes sense in either Italian, Spanish or Portuguese.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:40 | 3277362 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

For you it's VAFFANCULO POMPINAIO!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:28 | 3277609 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Good one, that is a Brasilian hooker on work holiday in Rimini I suppose ?

Keep mocking each other on language skills, if you really
want to try to make sense speak Latin . No takers ? So
lets just stick to pidgin American English

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:52 | 3278273 Acet
Acet's picture

One of the above mentioned languages is my mother thonge. I also speak another one well and the third one reasonably.

What he said was, literally:

"EU is stop, bitchez!"

In a mix of Italian and English.

If you're gonna show off your language skills in the fight-club, at least make a small effort not to fuck up a sentence of 4 words.

That said, the addition of "Bitchez!" in the end almost made it even.

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:05 | 3278544 nofluer
nofluer's picture

No capiche. Did you just say that a language was your mother's thonge?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:23 | 3277121 Iocosus
Iocosus's picture

The whole point of the Euro was consolidation of power and wealth. That they achieved.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:31 | 3277132 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

The reason for the Euro was to put a halt to the wild inflation games all European countries played to solve their deficits back than.

I remember a TV broadcast back than in the end of the 90's where a devaluation of 60% was announced... and nobody rioted. Pefectly normal.

It where mostly the rich who got hammered. The common people just didn't have that much savings so it didn't really matter to them.

Back in the 90's for example, knowing the exchange of a currency in Europa wasn't that easy. It changed every year bigtime when you went on vacation.

And for banks that was a bitch, so they created the euro so their money didn't devalue every fucking day.

And to make it look stable.... they might have tweeked some rules.... if not all... just... to keep the game going...

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:36 | 3277143 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The Euro was the Rothschild 'test tube baby' for a New World Order [starting with a single currency]...

~~~

It has been a miserable failure & should attest to the fact that these Moloch worshipping 'frat boys' have no power at all & should stick to dancing around with capes & Guy Fawkes masks trying to sodomize choirboys on full moons...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:39 | 3277155 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Rothschild's currency of choice for "world financial domination" was gold, my friend, and it's enemy was silver

this time "the enemy" is the EUR and gold - and hence all this agit-prop against them from the City

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:49 | 3277202 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The game isn't over...

~~~

Plan B is in effect... Debase ALL paper currencies [by printing the debt coupons plus a little vig & which is a tidier operation when all you have to worry about is a single currency for a continent because you can 'aggregate' everything like a bloated military budget without scrutiny]... Use the surplus [the aforementioned 'vig'] to skim phyzz off the market incrementally & hide it in the basement... [& hope that the Chinese don't beat you to the finish line]...

If you're reading me correctly, I'm NOT disagreeing with your premise... Instead ~ I'm talking about 'execution of the gameplan'... At present ~ they find themselves in a footrace they never intended to be in if Plan A had worked out...

The world has a funny way of making you run footraces that weren't in the original blueprint... Things come along & upset your plan... The INTERNET is a part of that... Most people are still 'sheeple', but a lot have woken up... When they wake up they get pissed... When they get pissed, you have to try and go after their guns [& do other things like convince them they need a flu shot, fuck with their corn, & make a lot of silly Hollywood movies which propagandize the notion that YOUR way is best]... I'm not sure what you do when that FAILS [but I guess we'll find out]...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:51 | 3277405 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

One World Government is never going to happen for two simple reasons. (1) The more centralized control becomes, the more manpower, resources, and infrastructure is required to maintain control. Look at how much the U.S. federal and state governments spend every year. The friction and economic losses alone from trying to centralized control of the world would bring the world economy to a complete halt. (2) People are sneaky, devious bastards and would find ways to circumvent the One World Government system. Think of One World Government as a global "War on Drugs" for an idea of how well that would work out. The Soviet Union was a One World Government over a good percentage of the world. How did that work out?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:23 | 3277568 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You're exactly right... [but they haven't figured that one out yet]...

~~~

All 1WG would ever accomplish is create a rather minor echelon of cohesive exchange... & numerous 'black market' economies... In a sense ~ it's achieved that already...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 12:52 | 3278049 autonomos
autonomos's picture

"manpower, resources, and infrastructure are required to maintain control" --> Isn't it OK if you create money ?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:00 | 3278520 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

only when you're building a DEATH STAR...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:36 | 3277152 Iocosus
Iocosus's picture

The elite always give benevolent reasons for what they do.

Your point is taken. In Romania, they devalued overnight, and the people did not riot because they were used to food shortages and living under the gun. Communism is in their blood and will take a generation more to filter out, that is, unless Communism returns.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:18 | 3277546 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

IMO they'd already achieved that long before the EU experiment. Looks like the dismantling of sovereinity to me. 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:27 | 3277600 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Trying to dismantle 'sovereignty' is like trying to dismantle the 'TERMINATOR 2' with liquid oxygen in the foundry... People will find ways to re-assemble...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:23 | 3277122 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If you don't ask questions, you'll get to keep your foodstamps and Obamaphone....

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:24 | 3277123 Cdad
Cdad's picture

...so now...replace "money that may or not be parceled out" with "punishments that may or may not be parceled out?"

Oh, the joy of sovereignty crushing financial oligarchic globalism...the nail on which all current hats are hung. 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:26 | 3277127 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Just imagine what would happen if everybody got to say what they wanted during the next elections....

and....

2014...

the first EU elections...

HA HA HAAAAAAAAA!!!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:27 | 3277128 Mediocritas
Mediocritas's picture

Nicole Foss and co met with Grillo a little while back, here's the write up which makes interesting reading. Grillo doesn't fully 'get' the situation, but he's better than most.

http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/beppe-grillo-wants-to-give-italy-de...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:40 | 3277162 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Grillo needs to say enough to motivate the protest vote without going too far to scare off moderate voters. A tough line to walk.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:29 | 3277134 mendigo
mendigo's picture

You have to wait for the adjusted numbers to really gain a better understanding.

There are tools for dealing with just such a situation - foremost may be the printing of more money.

Everything comes to an end some day for any number of reasons. I don't see how they can lose the game in any predictable manner since they make the rules and most people are happy to play along right or wrong.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:30 | 3277136 BandGap
BandGap's picture

“The question is not what you look at but what you see.”

-Thoreau

What we see is dictated by the propaganda machines.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:32 | 3277141 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

" the dawning will come"

One can only hope.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:33 | 3277145 milanitaly
milanitaly's picture

Fight club time Merkel.

V for revenge

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:40 | 3277165 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

well...

In Italy...

it's called Fight Club MED!

a bit like Fight Club... but without the fighting, with more naked woman and more alcohol...

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:00 | 3277232 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

And some food. Because..., well, food is important!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:46 | 3277386 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Bravo!  I'm all in. Where do I sign up?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:32 | 3278941 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Food is culture. No high cuisine no culture.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:08 | 3277259 milanitaly
milanitaly's picture

We realize your dreams. You can go on drinking!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:56 | 3277433 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Here's a question: what happens to Italian women? Young Italian women are slim, sexy, attractive. Middle-aged Italian women are short, drab, and dumpy. I'm not sure when the transformation occurs, but it's like night and day.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:30 | 3277617 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Pasta

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:38 | 3277651 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's called the RING SYNDROME...

you put a ring arround their finger... AND BAM!!! BIG MOMMA!!!! +200 POUNDS!!

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 12:52 | 3278047 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Bambinos y pasta y vino.... molto bene vino!!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:50 | 3279053 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Mixed race, and the turn will be all of a sudden, that 19 year old cutie will not only expand , but have her face disfigured by multiple heritages fighting for dominance.

The very reason I`m against racism`s very worst form , that of encouraging interbreeding.

I grew up with such friends that never knew where they belonged,later displayed two souls in their breast and are living on a rampage not being able to figure out where they should go. Some had more charm a president needs for election.

Biggest crime on earth to encourage such suffering.

Nicolas Gomez Davila said : God made the white and the black people. Not the mixed ones.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:35 | 3277149 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Grillo is kind of like the Tea Party in the US. Significant but not big enough to change anything by itself. At least in Italy they don't have Boehner to cut deals behind their back and vote with the Democrats.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:48 | 3277185 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

and yet a significant portion of the Italian Parliament's seats gives much more power than the analogous portion in the US Congress

if the US had the Italian Constitution, Boehner would be the Prime Minister, for example

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:37 | 3277156 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Trading Halted Across S-PAIN covered bonds.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:42 | 3277168 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

DAMN!!! I WAS JUST PLANNING ON BUYING SOME!!

maybe next time...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:38 | 3277159 22winmag
22winmag's picture

The people squatting on the ruins of a once great civilization have SPOKEN!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:47 | 3277178 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 "All untruths, except for some things, fall mainly on the plain."

--Mariano Rajoy

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:22 | 3277299 Acet
Acet's picture

Sadly almost all of Europe is made up of people squatting in the ruins of once great civilizations.

In fact, if you think of it, all of the PIIGS but Ireland were once great in some way (Portugal & Spain: the 15th centure age of sea discoveries, Italy: Roman Empire, Greeks: the great Greek city-states that once dominated the Mediterraneum).

 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:35 | 3277345 Peter K
Peter K's picture
@Acet, Can you say: "ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer". :)
Tue, 02/26/2013 - 12:06 | 3277815 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

AWOL, MINE FÜCKER! SICK FAIL! SICK FAIL! SICK FAIL!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 15:17 | 3278590 nofluer
nofluer's picture

all of the PIIGS but Ireland were once great in some way

I'm thinking that perhaps you don't know much about Irish/Celtic history... Perhaps a bit of study on the subject would remedy the lack?

For example, in 390BC under King Brennus the Celts sacked Rome. Ireland (the Irish) is but the remnant of Celtic civilization - not the whole of it.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 23:40 | 3280638 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Brennus (both) were Gauls, not Irish - you need to brush up your History, yourself - just look it up.

Also, there was no such thing as a Celtic people, as such (ethnicity, nation), but Celtic culture, shared by many different tribes across Europe, just as there isn't a single Christian/Jewish/Muslim people, just culture.

Celtic culture extended throughout most/all of western Europe, including British Islands, France and most or the whole current Portugal and western Iberian peninsula, etc. - nothing specifically Irish or British about it, just was better preserved in Ireland/Scotland for it's remoteness.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 07:40 | 3281135 Acet
Acet's picture

+1

Always happy to learn something new!

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:44 | 3277171 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Cazzata Malanga

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:44 | 3277172 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Seems pretty simple to me and Pritchard gets it too...A comedian who rejects the euro and wants to restructure the public debt and Italy's most failed human being but arguably the only one left that can deal with a world stage to take on Germany have been given a large vote of confidence.  Conversely, the guy who has pushed austerity for the ECB and Germany for the last 15 months is voted out on a rail...this is a huge problem for Europe as they now have 3 major states (Greece is now major with their $350b in bailouts) in Depression and France with another clown in charge and failing fast...think this is getting better or even stable...nein..

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:45 | 3277175 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Ask the right questions in the US and you are made to look like an idiot, labeled a terrorist and sometimes killed.

But nevermind that, we need to bomb Iran and spread our wonderful ways.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:33 | 3277338 W74
W74's picture

As a man in my late twenties going to university on the GI bill (stupid, stupid wars) I know this quite well.  Last semester I was the only one to speak in my two seminar classes (I probably had 30% of the total floor time vs the professor's 50% and 20% by the rest of the class).  One was actually a conservative, we got along well, he understood the wrold.  The other was a liberal who pushed a strong combination of feminism, kill Whitey, all religions are diverse except I'll bash you if you're Christian, and redistribute the wealth.  And this was a White Guy!!!  Needless to say I had to stand up for Males (the most common form of bashing) every single class and for those of European decent in most as well.

Well guess who's department chair thinks he's a racist and a sexist?  Well mine of course, except that I've never had a class with her. Meeting with her to go over mandatory graduation paperwork (to make sure I'm cleared unless something drastic happens) was awkward since my reputaion preceeded me through Mr. Uberliberal instead of preceeding through basically anyone else first.  Oh well, such is life.  I have a lot to offer these kids....if they want it, but most do not, they simply want to sit in class and take in the bullshit (even when they don't agree, and yes, it will impact either now or later on their lives), get the grade and be done.  Having earned my education I take it to heart and want more out of it.  I guess if their parents are paying for it it's different, they don't care.  A few of the better ones have talked to me after classes and sitting at the common area tables and thanked me for standing up for certain things.  I've built a small, but influential and intelligent alliance over the semesters.

But yeah, I know the concept quite well.  If you speak the TRUTH you will be LABLED.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:26 | 3277596 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

+100

Too funny...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:28 | 3277610 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I've had unpatriotic idiot on my forehead for a long time.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:30 | 3277615 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Hopefully, war is no redistribution of wealth, just as attending college courses on a GI bill is not.

'Americans' or how it takes an 'american' to outdo another in the 'americanism' department.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 09:57 | 3277222 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

Referendums are great... we have had several ourselves. But the same system keeps chugging along. It is going to take more than a referendum brought about by an election to bring down the EU... Or the crony capitalist system that has substituted itself for a constitutional republic here in the US.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:05 | 3277249 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

"if it can happen in Italy then why not in Greece, Spain, Portugal or France?"

...or America?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:16 | 3277284 j8h9
j8h9's picture

When? When will it happen?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:26 | 3277315 j8h9
j8h9's picture

When? When will it happen?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:32 | 3277331 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Succession anyone?

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:23 | 3277289 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

ghordius i have come to understand along with Acet perhaps makes his euro's posting for the brussel's gang..day after day he posts his pro EU bureaucrat tripe..very well written and not un enjoyable to read, but propaganda none the less.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 11:31 | 3277619 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

'Americans' posting something else than propaganda or fantasy? That means serious business, like killing people. And yet...

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 12:17 | 3277879 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous posting something else than propaganda or fantasy? That means serious business, like wokking dogs at his JKC (Just Killed Cat) Chinese citizenism fastfood franchise.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:30 | 3278187 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

More fantasy... 'Americans' fully acted by their 'american' nature.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:57 | 3278300 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

More denialism, more retreation to tra la la land of Chinese citizenism propagandariness...

AnAnonymystics fully acted by their impossibility of self indiction eternal nature.

But some people like so much to depict themselves like victims they dont seem able to admit on this point.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 13:13 | 3278114 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

well, thanks for the "well written" and for the "enjoyable to read", but where exactly do you find what I write as bullshit?

this article is imho propaganda, it mixes up the EU and the EMU and it mixes up several key items from the Italian parties platforms

we could go through what I wrote during the Greek crisis, if you want, it's all here on ZH

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 07:53 | 3281140 Acet
Acet's picture

Think multi-lingual, well travelled, cosmopolitan European with experience of living in several European countries.

Also coming from a country which was still under a Fascist dictatorship when I was born.

 

Kinda helps with growing an informed, subtle view on the EU.

You will notice from my posts that I haven't been going around opinionating about the relative upsides or downsides of each American state. That's because I don't have an informed opinion about American states (even though I can in fact read the online press from all those states - can you say the same with regards to Europe?), so I try to refrain from blasting my mouth out about shit I don't know.

Unfortunately there a lot of people here who suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) and just keep spewing about Europe when all they ever heard or read about it is in English-language forums and MSM.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 04:24 | 3284912 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 ""The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.""

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:19 | 3277292 torabora
torabora's picture

I'm thinking if I wait a bit I might be able to buy that Moto Guzzi cheaper.

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 16:49 | 3279048 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Owned about 75 motorcycles includint two guzzis, a 98 Sport 1100FI and 00 Quota.  I'd likely not buy another, though I know the allure.  Are you thinking the 750, or Grisso, or? 

Tue, 02/26/2013 - 10:22 | 3277300 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Read Grillo's Blog - read about Monte dei Paschi di Siena (MPS) bank and 55% of the Foundation was in the hands of members appointed by the Region of Tuscany, by the Province of Siena, and by the municipality of Siena - all bodies that are controlled by the PD. It’s unthinkable that the secretaries of the PD that have held office since 1995 were in the dark about Antoveneta or about the sale of significant sources of income including goods and real estate belonging to MPS that made it possible to pay out generous dividends. If the various people like Bersani, D’Alema, Veltroni, Franceschini, Fassino never realised that all this enormous financial disaster was happening, how can the PD aspire to run the country?

http://www.beppegrillo.it/en/

Bersani is a "former" Communist and that makes the EU  happy !  What does Draghi have to say about MPS ?

 

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