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Santelli On The Securitization Of Gold

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Having started trading gold futures over 30 years ago, CNBC's Rick Santelli has seen a few changes over the years. From its true high in Feb 1980 at around $2300 (inflation-adjusted), the biggest shift he and his guest have seen is the evolution of ETFs and the implicit securitization of gold. This took the 'complication' out of trading gold and enabled those who did not wish to hold physical to participate. But Santelli asks the critical question, "didn't it take the whole point away [of investing in gold]?" From the 'old days' when gold and silver were physically held and passed down and considered wealth to the current incorrect belief system of paper gold, the myth-shattering-Chicagoan exclaims to the precious metal ETF holders, "for the Ayn Rand'ers, if the financial world comes to an end, you're not going to have the gold, you're going to have a piece of paper."

 

 

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Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:42 | 3282858 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Golden fire and brimstone today from the great Jim Willie -

Fabulous stuff -

How the framework for international trade settlement in gold rather than the US dollar is already in place

How Germany is aligning with Russia and China, ready to 'swing' from West to East in the new world arrangements of gold-backed trade

Why China and Russia have 5 to 10 times more gold than they admit

Why Hong Kong is the safest place to store gold

How the West is sabotaging mining stocks, and people should own true physical gold instead

How JP Morgan interest rate swaps are fabricating 'demand' for US Treasuries to keep yields low

« The US citizens remain the worst informed people of any industrialized nation, and the most subjected to propaganda. »

« JPMorgan runs the Iraqi Export Bank in Baghdad Iraq, which serves as the clearing house for Afghan narcotics »

« The Zero Percent Interest Rate Policy will remain in place until the USGovt debt default occurs. » And the US dollar dies.

Always terrific reading

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1361998800.php

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:10 | 3282988 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

A four part History Channel pile of bullshit...

Now CNBC's Rick Santelli... again... and again ... and again.

Come on TDs tighten up your game.

Where is Jim Willie's soapbox on ZH for christsake?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:17 | 3283007 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Own gold for "price appreciation" - WTF CNBS!?!

You own gold because you have money, not to make money!

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked: 'Account overdrawn."  - Ayn Rand

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:26 | 3283272 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

ETF's were invented to supress gold and silver, therefore monetary malfeasance goes on undetected.  Doesn't take a genius to see that the big banks are completely insolvent, the UST completely ponzified, and PM's held in check by ETF's to keep a lid on the money printing to keep the insolvent ponzi going.  It's also clear the TPTB fear change.  Well, in todays world, that's pretty naive.

So far, the invisible hand has worked - on paper.  My bet is it won't last forever.  Position yourself accordingly.

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:37 | 3283966 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

ETF's were invented to suppress gold and silver.

 

Exactly right. Have the real stuff and have it in hand. Everything else is paper.

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:21 | 3284190 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

How people don't put together what the USA did by closing the gold window in exchange for paper is exactly the game that they are trying to reintroduce???

Paper gold to secure against runaway gold prices!!!

What was the reason before?.... Here, we will give you a pie e of paper saying that your gold is safe here on deposit, and that we won't print up any other deposit slip for your gold. It will always be here.

How in hell is this any different?

Sheep are meant to get slaughtered. I got a new saying:

Start slaughtering, Lay down and get slaughtered, or get the hell out of the way!!!!!!

long physical short paper. Wish iwas longer, but my boating skills need improvement.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:24 | 3283273 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Ayn Rand is great for 12 year olds who want to read funny nonsense written by a zealot, why she has followers outside of preteens is one of the mysteries of life.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns - or dollars. Take your choice - there is no other - and your time is running out."

Luckily no one in history has ever considered combining any of these, so take your pick!

Since Mckinley America has garnered wealth through imperialism abroad, before Mckinley it was done through conquest / exploitation closer to home. Same old story regardless of Rand's nonsensical rants. 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:48 | 3283329 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

UUUUMMMMM What?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:55 | 3283347 Umh
Umh's picture

So you like being the beneficiary of imperialism, and rejoice in the explotation of others.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 00:48 | 3284616 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

"So you like being the beneficiary of imperialism, and rejoice in the explotation of others."

The very wealthy who own the United Fruit Company, the big banks, and other big business interests benefit from imperialism. The taxpayers pay for it with their money, the taxpayers sons pay for it with their blood.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 07:50 | 3285098 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

UUUUMMMMM What?

 

Clean up on aisle 5.

 

Poor lil fella's head just spontaneously exploded.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 04:27 | 3284913 e-recep
e-recep's picture

I respect Ayn Rand mostly because she detests faith and religion and values reason instead.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:01 | 3283371 rogeliokh
rogeliokh's picture

The main problem is that while strugling to curb costs of Inflation Gold miners, giving up

the REAL thing (Metal) for the Fraud Paper at the $ fake spot price.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:40 | 3283108 in-Credible Banker
in-Credible Banker's picture

Whatever.

 The "great" Jim Willie.  WTF has he done? 

Turd.  Harvey Organ.  Santelli.  Max Keiser.  Sprott.  "Santa".   Day after day....week after week, month after month.  All of them spouting the same shit all the time.  The COMEX is gonna blow.  The gold isn't there.  The dollar will be dead.   Blah blah blah.

 

Sick of it all.  And it makes me vomit on a day like today where my metals drag the porfolio down when everyone else is celebrating the latest 1.5%. 

 

FUCK!

 

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:56 | 3283176 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

This game seems to be a little too tough for ya fella....... take your Bra and panties off and relax

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:02 | 3283264 akak
akak's picture

Actually, In-credible Banker here expresses an opinion that I find very meaningful and revealing.

What if the prices of gold and silver are in fact being manipulated, not necessarily to the downside solely or directly, but in such a way as to dispirit gold and silver holders by creating excessive volatility, via excessive price spikes followed by prolonged declines and/or equally prolonged and grinding, inconsequential sideways movements? 

Think about the differences in psychology and expectations that would be engendered by the following two scenarios, both ending up with the prices of gold and silver in THE EXACT SAME PLACE:

1)  The prices of gold and silver move up on an almost steady and linear upward-sloping graph, with occasional and expected corrections of a few percent along the way;

2)  The prices of gold and silver, after grinding sideways for a year or more, suddenly begin to shoot up in near parabolic fashion, making investors both excited and nervous, only to be followed by a dramatic 30 or 40+% decline, or a series of downward steps accomplishing the same thing (I don't know which would seem, overall, worse to the average investor or PM holder), followed by an equally long and boring plateauing of prices.

Now, if TPTB did in fact have the power to manipulate PM prices in the short and medium term, but only on a limited or insignificant level in the long term, would it not be to their advantage to at least put scenario #2 into play, in order to dramatically increase (artificial primary, and 'natural' second-order) volatility in the PM markets, thereby discouraging PM holders and investors, as well as giving the PMs a black eye as "highly volatile" and "excessively risky"?  Note that this ploy could work brilliantly in suppressing interest in the PMs, even as the eventual rise in their prices remained close to or exactly what it would have been absent the manipulation.

Is not #2 in fact the exact scenario we have seen, at least three times, in the last five or six years?  And curiously, precisely coinciding with the advent and popularity of the gold and silver ETFs.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:36 | 3284088 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

"but of course" that is the game my friend

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:25 | 3284200 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Hang on to winners

Push the losers overboard.

Add to winners

Repeat

It ain't that hard

Take some profits too once in a while, you deserve it.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 04:10 | 3284900 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 akak. ties in with what I'm writing here from time to time: what trading desks really love is waves. "churn", I call it. or if you want to use a gay term: drama

in the years before 1929 it was a bit more straightforward, pools gathered to push a stock up and then cash in when the masses got in

nowadays they can profit from every movement - up or down is irrelevant

it's akin capturing the energy of the seas - the result is the same: fleece the masses of small investors

in the gold and silver arena of course, it's additionally important for them to dispirit anyone that tries to have a stable savings level - a saver in fiat get's fleeced by inflation, a saver in gold or silver has to be fleeced differently

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:35 | 3283296 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The "great" Jim Willie.  WTF has he done? 

Turd.  Harvey Organ.  Santelli.  Max Keiser.  Sprott.  "Santa".   Day after day....week after week, month after month.  All of them spouting the same shit all the time.  The COMEX is gonna blow.  The gold isn't there.  The dollar will be dead.   Blah blah blah.

All these guys make money from either stock promotion or directly through their own ETFs, so consider the source. If you're in these markets it's a good idea to hedge your positions and take profit when the opportunity presents itself. I say this on here all the time and get down-voted but read the actual numbers on gold and try to cut out the noise. 

If you think your portfolio is getting hit though, take a look at Sprott Asset Management ETF performance & be thankful you're not paying those guys to lose your money - it's no surprise he's coming out with crazier and crazier excuses.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:44 | 3284107 horseman
horseman's picture

I used to have some money with the "great" rick rule so I could get in on all that inside resource expertise at an extremely expensive commission rate.  Nearly everything I was recommended went down,,,substantially.  I finally moved my money.

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:57 | 3284135 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 

Thats interesting as my introduction to him was watching him and his buddies hard selling a convention of (let's say 'less savvy') investors on a particularly gawdawful 'mining' stock. I was wondering to myself how such clownish stock promoters were winning the crowd so easily? It was later that I found out they were all known & held to high esteem to particular circles of online goldbugs. 

Anytime someone is giving / selling you financial advice, consider the source very carefully. 99% (pulled this number out of my ass but its probably true) of financial advisors make money solely on commissions. 

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:36 | 3283301 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Well, you had your chance to buy Groupon today. Did you? It is down over 20% AH on an earnings miss.

 

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:29 | 3283905 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Still looking for a 50% off gold and silver bullion Groupon deal in my email.....

Kyle Bass on the paper gold magicians at COMEX:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6m4nSxokXI

I would like to thank the paper gold and silver price manipulators for pushing down the price for awhile while I buy more physical. 

Could you please do the same for the ammunition market, even though there is no paper ammo market?  Fucking DHS is exceeding their three box limit.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:13 | 3283242 Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

I think today there is a belief that the price of gold is being manipulated. I have the impression that the real smart money is buying gold at current prices. For what purpose? Defender financial strength in the case (very likely) that the plan of Ben and his friends finish failing.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:34 | 3284084 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Au is again trading above par to Pt if anyone cares.

~ 55:1 to Ag for either.

Still waiting for 57.5 (or 51 to go the other way)

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 11:42 | 3285808 tango
tango's picture

LOL - I see the conspiracy/manipulator theme endlessly on ZH even when it makes no sense.   Why would Russia, China, etc so ardously purchase gold only to then turn around and try to depress the price?  And if pricing is so easy (as many seem to think) why isn't it done constantly, i.e. drive gold to $1000/buy, drive up $200/sell, drive down $100/buy - repeat ad infinitum.  In other words, why do the believers in direct manipulation ONLY come out when gold rises?   Like oil and "traders" (only when it rapidly rises in price).   The market is so complex, with so much artificiality, false perception, fakse pricing and hokum that finding true value has become a big guessing game. 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:30 | 3284064 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Always terrific reading --

Definitely, but for some reason I greatly prefer his writing to his speaking.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:45 | 3282873 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The Shitty Golden Rule: He who prints the gold makes the rules.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:55 | 3282920 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Gold didn't have counterparty risk, so banksters found it necessary to invent it.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:02 | 3282942 redpill
redpill's picture

At some point the divergence between phyz and paper will be so large not even the dumbfuck cnbc hosts will be able to ignore it.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:05 | 3282954 Manthong
Manthong's picture

 

 

There once was a trader named Sid

Who worked ETF’s for the Squid.

He smiled as he thunk

We’ll be out of this junk

On the day that it all goes “no bid”.

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:11 | 3282984 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Before phyz and paper become completely decoupled, though, they'll probably crater the paper price and pull physical with it as much as possible to scare out weak hands and allow the big boys to swoop in and buy physical on the cheap.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:38 | 3284224 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

I was thinking false flag aka terrist attack on the comex vaults.
"We had your gold til the towelheads blew the place up"
And
"If people want their gold back, then the terrists have won"

But it will indeed be something nobody could have see coming that caused something to happen, which we all can foresee. Hmmmmm.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:05 | 3283212 Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

The whole point of gold ETFs is price suppression for physical.  Provides a retail outlet for demand where matching supply is not required.  It's a retail fleece, and to make matters worse, eminently more trackable and thus taxable.

It also allows the big players to bang down the price in paper and buy cheapened physical to cover later shorts, playing the long leg in the big picture, and accumulating accumulating acculmulating along the way as cheap as possible.  Sell paper and buy Phys on the way down, buy paper on the way back up, buy covered shorts, sell paper and hammer it back down... rinse, repeat.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:59 | 3283367 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Nope. They will still ignore it. Because it would mean that their world view was fundamentally flawed, they will have nervous breakdowns or psychotic breaks rather than admit it.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:06 | 3282964 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Correct and they recommend it daily through their Media pumpers like Cramer and the rest of the CNBS cast. GLD GLD GLD.....then they pump the GDX and GDXJ....hehehehe.......suck all of that liquidity into more paper traps....and for now its working like a well oiled machine......ahhh but therein lies the problem......for now....note that Soros pulled his GLD out......he knows full well its a killing field 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 05:16 | 3284966 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

I agree with u Kliguy, but as far as Soros go.  He sits there and announces that he has dumped a truck load of GLD.(aka paper) the Sheeple follow him like lemmings. The spin machine cycles up,But what we dont know and I am only guessing here. Is that in one hand he dumps the paper.  Price drops. In the other hand he is buying Physical on the drop.  Funny how we know how much GLD he has but, he does not reveal his Physical holdings!

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:58 | 3283355 Umh
Umh's picture

It's harder to rehypothecate what's in my hands.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:49 | 3282884 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Oh, they're 'securitizin' the gold now...yea whatever.

I wouldn't trust a damn thing except some guns and ammo in this full-retard world we've become.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:38 | 3283310 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

I just love that "securitizing" sounds so...so...secure...;o)

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:49 | 3282891 Michelle
Michelle's picture

Ayn Rand'ers don't care about no stinkin' charts! Gold stackers don't care about paper profits! BTFD!

 

 

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:49 | 3282892 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Paper, good for butt-wiping, and that's about it.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:55 | 3282921 redpill
redpill's picture

And burning.  Combine the two and you get quite the smell.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:05 | 3282946 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

"It's quite pungent. It's a formidable scent; it stings the nostrils in a good way."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLq2-uZd5LY

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:11 | 3283408 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

"They've done studies. 60% of the time it works  every time"

That is fantastic...sounds like some kinda Fed Speak!

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:02 | 3282893 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Why hold the actual gold, Dick

Looking foward to more pearls of wisdom from Dick and friends

 

**

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:09 | 3282981 akak
akak's picture

I have found that men named "Dick" usually are.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:50 | 3282896 beachdude
beachdude's picture

God bless and protect Rick Santelli... and 2 to 3 bodyguards when venturing out in public.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:58 | 3282929 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Santelli works for a bank brokerage.  He will be just fine.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:50 | 3282897 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

On a side note, apparently the only thing now needed to create a 4% or so upswing in equities is to have one of the liars speak...Bernank or ObaMao or whoever will do...even Boner.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:54 | 3282914 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Can you say "Mississippi South Sea Bubble"? Getting frothy up in here!

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:54 | 3282915 agent default
agent default's picture

Well gold and silver are still getting hammered today, so I suppose that these ETFs are working exactly as intended. 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:55 | 3282919 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"there's only a few people who really want to own gold bars....and how many coins do you want to have?"

Fuck you you fuckin empty can cocksucking piece of shit whore.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:02 | 3282947 akak
akak's picture

 

"there's only a few people who really want to own gold bars....and how many coins do you want to have?"

LOTS!!!

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:22 | 3284043 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

"Just a little bit more" - Rockefeller

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:05 | 3282959 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

This is one of those time I want to up-arrow 100x.  The propanda is relentless - from the use of language, the attack on price to the illusion of wealth fiat debasing brings.  I hope they and their paper conflagrate..

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 19:27 | 3283687 August
August's picture

A constant feature of propaganda is that it is and MUST BE relentless.  That's why it works.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:42 | 3284233 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

+1776

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:57 | 3282924 irie1029
irie1029's picture

Hmm.  I just learned somethnig....  That is what I love about this site.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:23 | 3283041 4Y_LURKER
4Y_LURKER's picture

Irie XIV? 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:01 | 3282936 israhole
israhole's picture

GLD is for the goyim.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:20 | 3283026 Pseudo Anonym
Pseudo Anonym's picture

and for the jews to sell it to goyim

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:04 | 3282953 HD
HD's picture

It's getting beyond desperate. S&P in orbit, vix hammered, metals hammered - EU "fixed" because Italy sold some bonds.

There is a deep rot - the smell of an old animal about to die.

For once, I think TPTB are afraid...they can't even let the market decline 2% - now why would that be exactly?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:09 | 3282982 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

They are extremely desperate, but they can keep the top spinning a little while longer.  The real issue is when the first major creditor blinks - maybe China wants to horde a few more tons of bullion before they start the ultimate bank run...  Until then, we are made to suffer the waxing of the blind and bought-off.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:13 | 3283005 HD
HD's picture

When they push this to new all time highs - and they will...

They believe retail will rush in (with money they don't have) - instead they are going to start asking WHY and HOW are we at all time highs?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:20 | 3283024 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

The last time the Dow was at 14,000 (Oct. 2007), gold was $700, gasoline was $2.80, the Case-Shiller index was 199 (145 now), silver was $13, unemployment was 4.7%, food stamp recipients were ~27 million.

The all time high is a Long, Long ways away from what these chumps are going to get drunk over...

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:33 | 3283086 youngman
youngman's picture

If all those gold and silver options that are outstanding ak for their gold delivered..its party over I think...and I think that is how it will happen..China will buy thousands of options and ask for delivery....done..Comex and Lbma will be cooked goose...

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:44 | 3284240 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Crashes seem to wait until after large option positions can be reversed. By the you know who people.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:15 | 3283011 agent default
agent default's picture

The animal is already dead and swollen.  That thing you smell is the carcass about to rapture, the fine perfume of decay will only get stronger.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:02 | 3283381 Umh
Umh's picture

Long before I rounded the bend of the river I could smell the stench. The damn bull died and fell into the shallows. I felt the smell as much as anything. When we finally got upwind I breathed deeply and coasted down stream.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:56 | 3284137 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

The name of that smell is "central planning". Don't try to understand anything, just enjoy the fiction.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:05 | 3282956 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Partly off topic but today's market performance (stock ramp and PM dump) could only mean blowout GDP revision tomorrow and path to growth happinesee and never a crisis ever again! Smell the roses?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:07 | 3282970 HD
HD's picture

If the big banks knew something like that they would sell it off hard now and ramp the hell out of the futures tonight. Not like the SEC would notice.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:11 | 3282992 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Sorry but cannot agree with that since an overnight move would be a multiple of today's. If you're talking big banks, it means large size and you just can't trade that way AH, period. If you know something, you act, you don't wait.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:05 | 3282962 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

"Good as gold" is always hyperbole.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:46 | 3283325 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

As good as gold

The golden rule

Everything that glisters is not gold

Gold medal

Fuck it...there's thousands more here: http://www.special-dictionary.com/proverbs/keywords/gold/

CNBC Talking Heads v centuries of culture: who you gonna bank on?!?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 20:23 | 3283866 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture

Alright alright, a rain in May, a friend on the road, a story well told, a good reputation, land, the earth, felicity and time. Are all "as good as gold." I stand corrected.

Fun link BTW MDBoner, thanks. I especially liked #34 Gold does not fear the furnace.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 09:59 | 3285393 L_Conquistador
L_Conquistador's picture

Thanks for the link.

"Where gold avails, argument fails."

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:08 | 3282969 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Love it.

Yes, actually holding something tangible instead of paper.

Our messed up society is based on promises, and those promises are being broken left and right, only to be followed by more promises, which are then VAPORIZED.

NO TRUST.

This is why Gold, Silver, Guns, and Ammo are selling like hot cakes - they are TANGIBLE, and they are REAL; they are not a hollow promise from Washington or Wall Street.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:09 | 3282983 PUD
PUD's picture

Can you eat gold? I thought not. It's a rock...hello?  Made "valuable" only by the perceptions of men.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:16 | 3283013 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Yes...because man cannot exist sans iPad, Instagram, and Googlemaps.

Stop and think (if you are capable of such) for a moment about what the "aware" crowd stocks up on: food, water, fuel, ammo, sanitary items, etc...and...wait for it...precious metals.  What do ALL of those things have in common, other than I can touch all of them within 30 seconds of where I sit?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:23 | 3283040 THECOMINGDEPRESSION
THECOMINGDEPRESSION's picture

There is ALWAYS an uninformed ignorant person in a group of 2..

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:14 | 3283244 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

The dumb sonofabitch has 8000 Big Macs in reserve. He's rich bitch!

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:23 | 3283043 agent default
agent default's picture

But you can sure as hell eat that funny paper the Fed is peddling.  You won't even be able to exchange the damn thing for anything of value in the not so distant future.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:24 | 3283047 20834A
20834A's picture

Can you eat paper? Can you take that stock certificate from ConAgra to the grocery store and get scarce foods? But with a wink and a nod, I'd bet the store owner/manager would do a quiet deal for gold.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:26 | 3283058 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Think about it.  Imagine if money literally was food or even backed by food.  Hoarding, forex exchange rate nightmare, etc.  Yeah, monetizing debt is a shit idea, but monetising food?  Soilent greenback, what could go wrong... 

Perceptions.  Is there anything more important for honest money than perception and trust?  This is why the very low velocity, light industrial use of gold is perceived as the store of value extraordinaire.  

 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:52 | 3283153 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I'm certain that 144,000 people who had paper promises from MF Global and Jon Corzine wish they had Gold instead.

Can you eat equities?  Can you cash out equities without getting taxed out the ass, if they still have value?

Come-come now, diversify, and dip your toe in a little Gold and Silver.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:13 | 3283241 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

you're posts are about as fun to read as getting gonorrhea from a fat whore

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:33 | 3283293 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

How does one read the getting of something?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:50 | 3284250 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

PUD,
I up arrowed you because I am wise enough to know that I need SOMEBODY to take the other side of my trade.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 01:27 | 3284695 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

"Can you eat gold? I thought not. It's a rock...hello?  Made "valuable" only by the perceptions of men."

 

You can't eat paper either but you can wipe your ass with it.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 05:24 | 3284971 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

PUD I think u have been pulling it far to long..  

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:11 | 3282995 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Gold is being bought en masse - GLD is being sold off en masse.  That's the difficult-to-perceive spread that tells the real story.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:08 | 3282971 PUD
PUD's picture

Once more...no one 'invests' in gold. You speculate in it. Period. The word "investor" is the most tainted word in the english language now...propaganda for the masses. It is all gambling. Be honest with yourselves and you won't feel so bad when you lose all your chips

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:13 | 3283002 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I don't invest in gold.  I store purchasing power there.  Has never failed in the history of mankind.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:33 | 3283084 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

What are the odds that PUD (24 weeks, 4 days) has so recently decided to start commenting on Zerohedge?  I smell a bankster.gov provocateur..

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:16 | 3283250 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Ehhh I'm going to bet on misinformed piece of shit.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:37 | 3283308 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Nah,

They only hire bloggers that can produce a cogent and believable argument.

This does not include a nit-wit who would rather have a McD's quarter pounder than 4 oz. AU.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:51 | 3283335 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

We should rejoice that TPTB are worried enough to pay ass-hats to come here and diss PMs.

Kinda proves we "gold bugs" are onto something...

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 20:16 | 3283851 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Exactly.  I disagree with Santelli's guest Frank who says quickly at the end, that "if you think you'll get a return, you want to own it, sell otherwise".  If you hold gold for a "return", you're holding it for the wrong reasons.  You hold it, as you say, to store purchasing power, or, protect one's "real current position".  Gold is an inflation hedge.  It is not an investment......well, maybe a little China and India jewelry demand, but, this is trivial.  Anyways +1.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:24 | 3283044 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

Gold has NEVER gone to zero during human civilization, so whatever brand of crack you're smoking must be generic. Now that we have determined the quality of BS you're pushing, care to offer any more worthless gems of your wisdom?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:33 | 3283088 akak
akak's picture

Ah, it's PUDtz back again, and naturally bashing gold!

As I tried to explain to you a few days ago, Putz, it is not "speculation" to prepare for an oncoming hurricane, nor is it "gambling" with one's life to step out of the way of a runaway truck.  Your herculean leaps of illogic and stygian depths of ignorance, however, make attempting to discuss the subject rationally with you nothing a fool's errand.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:11 | 3283230 Vooter
Vooter's picture

So...buying physical gold and forgetting about it is "speculating"? LOL...here's Webster's definition of "speculate": "to assume a business risk in hope of gain; esp.: to buy or sell in expectation of profiting from market fluctuations." If you're buying physical gold to avoid having to hold fiat currency that is becoming increasingly worthless by the day, how is that speculation?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:18 | 3283252 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Pud, don't be a putz! When you are holding anything at all other than your pud, such as equities, bonds, dollars, or even real estate, are you not ' gambling' that it will at least retain it's value?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 22:49 | 3284259 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

+1. See above

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 05:30 | 3284975 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

Guys do u hear that sound???  It is my new amazing TROLL detector and it has found another one! 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:10 | 3282987 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Jesus Christ!  If gold goes down 1100 MOAR digitz, I will be underwater.  Which is where I store my gold anyway.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:14 | 3283009 HD
HD's picture

"Which is where I store my gold anyway."

LOL

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:19 | 3283019 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Thanks for posting this. I was watching CNBC earlier and wanted to see it but I got side tracked.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:20 | 3283025 4Y_LURKER
4Y_LURKER's picture

Cramer's pumping GLD: http://www.cnbc.com/id/49482843

Goldman Sach's article on "selling:" http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-02-25/gold-s-cycle-seen-as-turned-by-goldman-as-etp-holdings-collapse

Wordcloud of Goldman's press release/"sell" order: http://worditout.com/word-cloud/168153

I am a diehard goldbug.  GS's issuing orders for the muppet brokers, while stacking? 

Interesting.  Facinating.  Wonder what's going to happen? 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:23 | 3283042 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

The purpose of paper gold is to mask by dilution the price of physical gold.

End of story.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:24 | 3283049 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture
It used to be that people tried to spin straw into gold. Now, people try to spin gold into paper.

- Santelli
Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:28 | 3283068 EclecticParrot
EclecticParrot's picture

Surprising -- yet another ZH gold thread.  I'm reminded of a time back in college, sitting on the hallway floor waiting to get into my History of Ancient Philosophy class, listening to the grad assistants argue passionately about the importance of Heraclitus or their favorite Platonic dialogue.  My thought at the time was:  Have these people ever heard Charlie Parker play or June Christy sing?  I couldn't wait till my homework was done so I could devour Joyce and Nietzsche (and, I'm now embarassed to admit, Hermann 'Fucking' Hesse).

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:34 | 3283090 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Do you prefer Bitcoin?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:38 | 3283102 EclecticParrot
EclecticParrot's picture

No, I'm Italian, so when we want to express 'value' to someone, we cook for them.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:42 | 3283115 akak
akak's picture

Yes, but linguini and pesto and polenta are hardly decent stores of value.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:50 | 3283148 EclecticParrot
EclecticParrot's picture

This is the 21st century -- Italians mainly cook Chinese, Thai and Middle Eastern fare.  I'm more confident in the price of Kaffir lime leaves than gold at the moment.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:56 | 3283174 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Not in my Italian family. Not any Italians know, for that matter.

 

I make Ramen noodles, occasionally. Now, that's REAL money in jail.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:09 | 3283220 EclecticParrot
EclecticParrot's picture

I agree -- I was just messing with him.  I do have my 77-yr old mother regularly using turmeric, however, which I consider a rather glowing achievement.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:55 | 3283346 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

Italian, huh? How's that Empire doing now? Remind me...why did it collapse, again?!?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:20 | 3283447 EclecticParrot
EclecticParrot's picture

Some say it was Vandal-ism.  Others claim it was the Visigoths.  Insiders believe a bad batch of pasta fazul.

However, true Italians point to the year 1949 as the actual collapse, whereby the menfolk were too busy staring at Silvana Mangano's legs on the silver screen to contribute anything to GDP.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:43 | 3283522 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

I would prefer to believe it was the Visigoths, for obvious reasons.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:12 | 3283237 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Actually, in federal prison they prefer to stack Macks.

http://m.wsj.com/articles/a/SB122290720439096481?mg=reno64-wsj

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:40 | 3283111 DutchR
DutchR's picture

Nah, Gen-X, so: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcfUk5ptoCY

Spandax ballet ;)

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:44 | 3283123 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I'm reminded of a time back in college, sitting on the hallway floor waiting to get into my History of Ancient Philosophy class,

 

You left out the part about the sheet of LSD blotter you had just licked...

(I hope like heck you didn't pay for that 'education')

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:46 | 3283124 vato poco
vato poco's picture

My batshit crazy old daddy managed to teach me one thing worth knowing before he went off the deep end: "Son, if somebody makes a point of telling you how honest they are; or if they try to play 'cooler-than-thou' by dropping names of artists & authors that All The Critics In New York decree to be extremely hip and happening......they're either lying or bullshitting, or both."

You're probably wondering why I brought that up, huh, Polly.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:10 | 3283405 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

LOL vato poco.  Very succict.  The same can be said of most economists as far as the lying and bullshitting goes.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:59 | 3283195 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

"so I could devour Joyce and Nietzsche"

+1 for that effort.  Next thing you know, we will we be having a literary debate on ZH.  I majored in English for two an half years before I became disillusioned and switched back to the sciences. 

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:28 | 3283468 akak
akak's picture

What a coincidence --- I devoured Joyce in MY college days too!

Damn, she was good too! 

Ah, memories.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 19:49 | 3283771 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Good to see you back akak.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:10 | 3284000 akak
akak's picture

Thanks M.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 21:08 | 3283991 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

A way a lone a last a loved a long the / riverrun.

History ... is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:19 | 3283257 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

so can you confirm that is was all douchebags at Princeton... or just 95% of the University?  Krugman & Blinder don't count as they have already reached immortal douchebag status.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:36 | 3283300 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Nietzsche demanded that his readers think for themselves. Simply devouring his works was a complete waste of your time.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:57 | 3283354 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

Sooooo.....you can't eat gold...but you can devour Nietsche...?!?

Gotta get me some fer mah bunker ;o)

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:28 | 3283469 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Whatever does not kill you makes you stronger.

Eating Nietsche will definily kill you.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 01:30 | 3284706 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

" Have these people ever heard Charlie Parker play or June Christy sing?"

They didn't need to. They could earn a degree without learning anything that had happened in the last 2000 years.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:35 | 3283093 Manipulism
Manipulism's picture

AAAAAAAaaaaand its gone.

"The viedo you are trying to access is unavailable at the moment.
A message has been send to our customer care so that we MAY fix the problem.

We apologize for any inconvenience.

Error Code VID: 504"

 

No Santelli for me.

Too bad.

Your censors are busy in teh us today.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 16:42 | 3283117 Super Broccoli
Super Broccoli's picture

ETFs are much the same of previous ponzi-paper-gold schemes ? Nooooo shit !?

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:26 | 3283271 FFox
FFox's picture

So the (un)great Santelli slips up a bit and sniggles "I know this is heresy" and then relates all (any?) the gold may not actually be there in the GLD ETF.

The word hersey = A controversial or unorthodox opinion or doctrine, as in politics, philosophy, or science.

Only dumbed down money sheeple believe GLD and SLV have the metal they claim to have.  It's just friggin fiat paper pretending to be precious metal.

I doubt they have half of what they claim... and that's likely leased out.  So when cashing in on that great gold investment... you'll receive =  a paper money deravitive. Not even paper, as it will be a digital post to your funny money account!  

Is all that gold really there in the GLD ETF!  That's funny one! Makes it hard for the fox to cope.  Being wise is not easy these days!

Oh, the answer:  If you need to know you're a dumbed down invesment sheeple... programmed to be sheared by the elites.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:31 | 3283286 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Frank is either ignorant (uneducated/uninformed), a shill or a crook.  Take your pick.  Santelli gently 'exposed' him for the Useful Tool that he is.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:38 | 3283305 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm not in the Financial industry/racket, but even I know that you can use the Precious for Decorative, Industrial and Financial purposes.  Under Financial purposes, it 1.  IS money, 2. Can back fiat money, 3. Is a store of value, and 4.  Yes -- Frank you moron -- you CAN use it to 'invest', i.e. for speculation and daytrading.  Just like stocks.  Frank, step aside and give the job to someone who actually knows something, you fraud!

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:45 | 3283322 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

In FOFOAland we write 'gold' for paper and gold for the metal....It makes it more clear as apparently many people can't tell the difference between an asset of timeless worth and a derivative of said asset.

It is like someone confusing a house with holding a mortgage on one. The mortgage does not prrovide shelter.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:25 | 3283463 akak
akak's picture

Kind of like how AnAnonymous refers to everyone in the world whom he despises (which is almost everyone in the world, apparently, except certain Chinamen) as 'americans', whereas to those with functioning cerebral matter an American is a US citizen (or south of the US border, an inhabitant of the Western Hemisphere).

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 23:22 | 3284337 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

And the difference in value between the underlying asset and the dirivative should represent the credibility of the person or institution who writes the derivative. This is where the mispricing is being accomplished. You want to sell the paper and buy the asset as the mispricing becomes apparent.

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 17:51 | 3283337 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

the past 100 years should never have been; it was abnormal.   

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:16 | 3283427 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

I know I should be doing something else more constructive and I know I should not even post this.  I can't help it though this time.  Sorry.

Paper gold or any paper "asset" is simply this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrL9MV6jSk

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 18:23 | 3283457 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Milli Vanilli. Really, did you have to hit me with that before dinner?
Though, It was a good analogy.

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