Italy Is Not Spain - It's Worse

Tyler Durden's picture

With Rajoy quietly gloating at his political fraud being off the front-pages thanks to Italian elections, it seems the more we dig into Italian reality, the weaker the story becomes. The meme of the last few years has been that "at least we're not as bad as Greece" and rightly so, for as Bloomberg's Niraj Shah notes today, Greece's poverty rate is a stunning 31% (against Holland's 15.7%). However, while all eyes have been focused on Spain's dismal economy, the sad reality is that Italy is worse than Spain in that its poverty rate is a breath-taking 28.2% (relative to Spain's 27%) - even though the unemployment rates in the two nations are vastly different (Spain 26% and Italy 11.2%). Given this fact it is perhaps not surprising that the 'people' voted against austerity and furthermore, that Italy's CDS has pushed above Spain's for the first time in over a year.



Chart: Bloomberg Briefs

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W74's picture

United States: 50%  We're already at 25%ish by our own measure. 

Now, having said that, we're the only country in the world where you can be "in poverty" while still eating 3 (quite large) meals a day, have your children's lunches paid for, drive an Escalade/Denali/Tahoe with spinner rims and own 3 iPhones....but hey....dowes ppl be po' an sheet.

Offthebeach's picture

"America is the only country where people drive to the poor house in their car."
Will Rogers. 1929

mumbo_jumbo's picture

you beat me to it, i was gonna say why isn't the USA on that chart and it's not cause it's off the charts!!!

RSBriggs's picture

maybe because the USA isn't a member of the EU?

vamoose1's picture

you   zh  ers    are  the   cleverest  and   funniest   people on  earth 

lolmao500's picture

Cut government cheese and we'll see what the real poverty rate is... the difference between the US and Europe... hungry people in the US have means (guns) to make their voices heard...

youngman's picture

Every one is at risk of poverty at all times.......and who defination of Poverty the USA´s , Africa´s,....or India´s...a big difference in the size of the flat screen TV´s between the three two of those countries it sleeps 10 on top...

EscapeKey's picture

Lots of council tenants (ie social housing) here in the UK own ridiculous flat-screens, with full cable packages. Oh and go to Glastonbury and use iPhone 5's.

I'm sure there are some people genuinely in trouble, but there sure as hell are lots who are not.

W74's picture

That's the reality that we're all SEEING with our own eyes, but CNN and especially MSNBC would have us "believing" otherwise, that most are genuienly in trouble and that most would work if they could.  Hogwash.

I was solidified a conservative one day (I had been teetering on the edge for awhile, disilusioned with my two deployments for nothing and looking forward to a dismal economy when I returned home, and I was a registered Dem for 7 years or so) when I read an article in the Baltimore Sun what was intended to be a sob story about some single mom with 3 or 4 kids (unknown number of fathers, you think the media is going to give you that part?) who was about to lose one of her half dozen "benefits" due to cuts and that would somehow put her over the edge.  Well guess what: They had what looked like a 60" Flatscreen IN THE PICTURE with two of her brats playing some video game which was too small for me to identify in the picture.  I mean, they were trying to tell me this "family" was poor, but I could tell they just made horrible choices and expected the rest of us to pay for it.  I didn't even own a flat screen for a good 2 years even after that, and only because it was a gift.

Stuck on Zero's picture

I saw a similar sob story on the news.  The unfortunate, never-married Mom of four drove a new Prius, had a two pack a day smoking habit, and had a trash can full of empty booze bottles. 

W74's picture

But you'll never get that truth from MSNBC.  You'll never, for example, work for the census as an enumerator and then have to go the the ghetto and see all kinds of crazy shit.  I mean, most of the folks were nice (daytime, and oh by the way on ghetto door knocking days I didn't start until noon because they would never answer before 10 a.m. anyway) and more than a few dozen invited me into their homes.  Now I remember one evening getting to be around dusk I was in an apartment that had 10 living there.  It couldn't have cost more than $800/mo. which is cheap for this area, but they had very nice decorations, a HUGE flat screen and everyone seemed to be wearing nice clothes, yet even the grandmother (who was doing the interview with me) was calling everyone else (except me) a nigger (and then appologizing to me every 30 seconds for saying it) and the children were using it and the teenagers, it was a mess.

I've seen some rat-hole dumps too, but they had a nice vehicle parked out front.  Lack of priorities seems to be the order of the day.  Oh, and I've been to a couple what seemed like White-only trailer parks.  I was actually more scared in those because instead of being jolly in the ghetto (yeah they might rob me in the daylight) the rednecks seemed angry as fuck.  I know better now though, but still the needles laying on the ground and trash strewn about everywhere was unsettling.  I'll never figure out why some folks choose to live the way they do.

dreadnaught's picture

and ive heard from a friend there that many welfare recipiants are also granted an all paid 2 week vacation anywhere in europe-and can fool the system into getting "extra benefits" (cash)

Hedgetard55's picture

Guineas make great wine, cheese and ceramics.

fourchan's picture

somebody over there is fiddling.

EscapeKey's picture

Poverty in (Western) Europe means that you can't afford to upgrade your iPad 1.

jonjon831983's picture

The final safety net is family.

After that probably is chaos.



Then again out here in the West it almost feels like family cohesion has been virtually destroyed.

W74's picture

That was the intention, it all started in 1964.  It has been planned.

Tourist2008's picture

Thats possibly the stupidest chart I have ever seen. Europeans don´t know what poverty looks like post 1945.

W74's picture

The Greeks might just now be figuring it out.  Argentina seems to be having shortages too, but at least they have a lot of good, productive agricultural land, forests, and metals under the ground.  Greeks? Not so much.

TNTARG's picture

Considering the global landscape, we're Ok. Anyway shit is starting to float to the top everywhere.

conspicio's picture

Lemme define the poverty, then I tell you who in it. You know, like when cable gets turned off, you one broke ass pimp. No credit, no license, just ebt and mah nine mil in mah shorts, beeyatch. You know, that kind of poverty. Poverty when prepaid cell phone runs out. Sheee-yit, you broke, then. Eat-alley ain't in poverty yet, fo' sho. They got all them ferraris and shit. Ain't that where Monaco be? Some rich muthafuckahs over tha still. Shit ain't broke yet. Y'all gettin up in mah grill and shit with this italian sob story.

TNTARG's picture

Living in denial it's also a choice.

Italy. Il Belpaese.

"ISTAT: la disoccupazione giovanile tocca il nuovo record di 37,1 %" (Dati ufficiali, immaginiamo la realtá).

"Record unemployment and poverty. 2013's awful start"

americanspirit's picture

It doesn't really matter what your definition or "poor" is - when you're it, you know. And if you don't know that you're rich. or at least comfortable, then you're poor. So, question is, what are you going to do about it. Work hard and bootstrap yourself? Sucker. Or just realize that your life is meaningless and take as many assholes with you as you can when you go, sooner rather than later. Preferably assholes at some country club or just some asshole driving a car that costs more than you have ever earned in a year in your life.  It's easy enough to pick a venue where you know that definitely, for a fact, those who are there deserve to die. There's a bit of a liability to being one of the 1% - the other 99% are eventually going to come for you.

Oh - and DHS and NSA - eat shit.

Reptil's picture

yes Italy is worse.

anyway, we're all screwed. it's now about who can endure. Italy and Spain actually have a fair chance at that.

- everyone in Italy already knows it's a mess and has known since ppl. began writing. so they know what's coming.

- tight family bonds will hold society together (somewhat)

the chart with the Netherlands as the least likely to suffer poverty... hmm.. put a stick in the wheels of the real-estate bubble here and you'll have a royal mess.

natty light's picture

I have been wondering if Greece (or Italy, Spain, or Portugal), might be the place to go when it crashes. Greece has great weather, and the cost of living may go back to what it was 50 years ago.

Super Broccoli's picture

yeah you'll certainly get the 50's type of security too ie : quick intervention cops on donkeys ...


but at least they won't be a pain in the ass when you don't need them ;-)

hooligan2009's picture

they have a few streets to sell you in "beachandruinsattachedolis" for just a few million euros...better get in before ther russians though

Paracelsus's picture

Your reference to the Dutch RE bubble reminded of a post a few days ago.The Dutch bailed out one of the Banks that had many deposits from large pension funds.Whatever happened to due diligence? Isn't this why the fund managers make the big bickies,assessing the risk exposure?

Let the banks fail already,or we will all go down the track of Japan or worse...

Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I like Austria's and Slovenia's stats.  As the weather sucks in Holland and Luxembourg, tell Simon that we need a report to planting a flag in .at or in .si.

We'll ignore that Adolf was Austrian, and that the SS had a far more Austrians than Germans (on a per capita basis).  It's a pretty country with decent weather.  And Arnold comes from there. 

Slovenia is "On the sunny side of the Alps", their tourist ads proclaim.  They seem more English fluent than Austrians and have dual (Slovenian-English) street signs.  More pro-American too.  Both make very decent (white) wine.  The Slovenians more so, IMO.  I like the mix of 1 hr from the ski hills and 1 hr from Adriatic.  No guns, few US fast food joints even in the capital.  Just a preference for German cars.  Turns out their students do better in international competitions than Austrians (only Fins beat them, I think), and FAR better than US students.  Nationalized education and medicine?  How does that get these stats?  WTF, what gives?  / No NWO ambitions, I guess.  Pussies! /sarc

Don Diego's picture

I have been to Slovenia's capital Ljubljana. My only complaint is that they don't have enough diversity. It is unacceptable to see so many white faces in a European capital. It is the XXI century! I hope Brussels take note and start acting accordingly. There are plenty of Somali refugees that would fit perfectly right there.

Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Ireland second place???? I have been over there recently it certainly isn't poor, getting poorer yes but isn't everywhere, but nothing like Greece I can assure you.

Volaille de Bresse's picture

I doubt it's worse : Italians are intelligent ppl, they officially have one of the largest private gold possession in the world. That means figures don't include all the gold thye bought under the counter. 


When the shit hits the fan that fact may matter... a lot!

Potemkin Nation's picture

The question is how valid are the statistics.  Many people have under the table income in Italy.

Sandmann's picture

I bet there are more Billionaires in Italy than in Spain. The fact is Italy has a much bigger economy and is the No3 Borrower in the world. It is as sclerotic as Britain and grows as sluggishly. Britain and Italy are similar countries - Fraudulent Politics, Crooked Finance, Power concentrated in the hands of Cliques

falak pema's picture

Italy has the Pope sitting on top of that heap and the UK has the Queen.

THousand years of gory, blood splattered Glory in Name of "Dieu le Veult"  and "Dieu et mon Droit".

What has God got to do with the money sitting in the financial vaults of Vatican and surrogate banks and what has God got do with the money bequeathed to trusts running the wealth of English nobility and crony Oligarchy, lords of Caymans?

Useful mythology for wealth creation, like the Greenback invented in 1913, as surreptitious SON of vacillating imperial Pound, in those ominous days of 1913 when the sounds of boots started to resound in Aulde Europe land...

Can you hear those boots now resound in the Oil patch, as well as in all corners of Greenback's dominions; along with surrogate sisters Euro, £ and Yen?

Under the auspices of the Squid tentacular reach, successor to the Rothschilds, the JPMs and Rockafellas, the pillars of Jekyll Island masterminding!...the Oligarchs of that age needed a new haven of wealth! The greenback age was launched! 

Clash of civilizations is another way of saying we don't have a way out except being robber barons of old. Human nature follows time old patterns and history gets written by the victors; not by the sons of truth.

Alas. Until the people kill the last Oligarch hung by the guts of the last banker/politician now sons of corrupt dogmatic "truth". 

But even then...the Beppe Grillo's never rule the behind the naïve Populist stands the shadow of a new despot; Napoleon or Il Duce! Or even worse : the mustachioed Sieg Heil of ethnic, totalitarian rage.

Its a never ending game that gets reinvented, as we love to "deconstruct" every lie we ever invented! 

A new Nietzsche and his "Thus spoke Zarathustra" forever challenging past christian and godly meme of old civilization. 


... Lo! I am weary of my wisdom, like the bee that hath gathered too much honey; I need hands outstretched to take it. I would fain bestow and distribute, until the wise have once more become joyous in their folly, and the poor happy in their riches.

  Lo! This cup is again going to empty itself, and Zarathustra is again going to be a man.

  Thus began Zarathustra's down-going...

Zarathustra is our perennial urge to propulse a Superman to role of new "people's" Caesar... and then woe the day we did it! 

We have no choice but to keep trying...Gordian knots and Internet bots! 


autonomos's picture

"Thus spoke Zarathustra", the fifth gospel

One should reconcile Nietzsche with taoism

falak pema's picture

the older it is the more it controls the future...and I didn't invent that axiom! 

fabmax's picture

yeah, sounds just like the US: Lehman, Jamie JPM, Goldman, Timmy Boy, Paulson, Bernanke, etc. etc. etc.

lolmao500's picture

What's the poverty rate of Afghanistan? Iraq? Iran? China?