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Silver Demand Surges To Record For February

Tyler Durden's picture





 

We noted the strange divergence between the surge in physical demand for precious metals and the falling price of gold and silver yesterday and today; sure enough, just as they give back some short-term gains, we find that with one day left in the month, the US Mint has seen the largest demand for physical silver coins ever for a February at 3.37mm ounces. We are sure this all makes perfect sense somewhere in the leasing, backwardation, securitization, paper world of precious metals pricing but one thing appears sure, more than just Russia is backing up the truck for physical bullion.

 

 

Data: US Mint

 


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Thu, 02/28/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

God damn barbarians!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Nice to see some folks are sourcing out "real" money.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

And surprising how there are no reports of tungsten in any of them...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Core drilling one ounce coins is a pain in the ass I guess.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

It’s only a matter of time before silver reverts to fair value at $18 an ounce. When you take an objective look at the silver market (without the Zerohedge hype), I’m afraid the outlook is bleak. Let’s review the facts:

  1. Mining output of silver at these inflated prices is increasing faster than ever, and new supply is flooding the market at an ever increasing rate.
  2. Graphene is replacing silver in almost all of its industrial utilities, rendering silver almost worthless as an industrial metal.
  3. To the horror of silverbug goons, more and more funds are dumping silver as an investment in order to invest in stocks and bonds.

I’ve warned the silverbug cretins to protect their savings and stay away from this dangerous market, but it seems that these suicidal lemmings are so invested in their dream of becoming kings of the universe, that they simply cannot be reasoned with.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:21 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

So we should be buying T-Bills and Facebook?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:24 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Herbalife.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:28 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Amazon.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:33 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

The fiat whores always try to sway public opinion by bringing up "industrial" uses of a monetary metal.  LOL.  In 1850, what were the industrial uses of silver?  Or the 3,000 years before that?

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:39 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

i do actually think that from a monetary perspective, gold offers more safety than silver. a huge percentage of silver is industrially applicated, if a worldwide recession kicks in, industrial use will be reduced, and hence more is available to the investment market. of course, a lower price would effectively reduce supply as well, but i doubt it'd be as much as the reduction in industrial use.

gold, however, is generally too expensive for industrial use. or at least common industrial use.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:46 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

"too expensive" is a relative term.  All you simply stated was that the Fed has debauched the USD so much that it put gold out of reach for any practical industrial application.  If you don't think silver is headed that way, being a better conductor and harder to mine, then that is your choice.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:00 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"gold, however, is generally too expensive for industrial use. or at least common industrial use."

430T went to industrial in 2012, 1.5x the amount moving into ETFs

Also, worth noting that industrial use was down & ETF demand sharply up.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Mining output may be increasing, but it still falls short of total demand every year by roughly 200 million oz. Another fail for the million dollar bogus.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I'll stop buying silver, when Ben stops buying T-bonds.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

What's the 'fair value' for a dollar?  Can't even buy a bottle of water with it anymore...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 23:38 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

There's only so much you can mine from "we buy gold and silver" campaigns.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:05 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Nothing like a little confirmation bias to accompany the morning coffee:

Silver price backwardation, corrections and perception shifts
By Dr. Jeffrey Lewis | February 28, 2013
The price of silver futures contracts have been regularly flirting with a state of backwardation ever since the 2008 financial crisis, which is a sign of a growing physical silver shortage.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:09 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

surely this could also indicate the-ever increasing squeeze on any yield-producing asset?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:50 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"surely this could also indicate the-ever increasing squeeze on any yield-producing asset?"

Yeah, but as I point out regularly, half the gold supply goes to jewellery. Jewellery demand has dropped off sharply because of the price increase over the past decade. Between jewels + Industrial you dwarf investor demand, if those two keep moving down what picks up the demand?  

Everyone who's looking at these markets lucidly right now is very nervous. There will be many a long faces at the PDAC this year. 

I'll get junked to death for saying this, but ETFs have been picking up a lot of the demand slack in gold - that's a fact. I remain optimistic about gold in general due to the currency envrioment, but the numbers look bad. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:03 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

And as I keep trying to point out to you, James, well more than half of the worldwide demand for what you dismiss as mere "jewelry" IS in fact gold investment demand!  Why are you, like Jon Nadler, continually unable or unwilling to acknowledge the truth of that fact?

In fact, most of the gold purchased and held as an investment and as savings by South Asians is in the form of high-karat gold jewelry.  It has been so for thousands of years.  And while this gold jewelry (which being very high-karat gold, often pure 24kt, is actually impractically soft from a pure jewelry standard) may be worn on weddings and the rare special ocassion, its primary function is NOT as decoration or frippery, but as a form of SAVINGS that is immune to fiat currency depreciation.

As I have also stated repeatedly here before, to you as well, you could just as (il)logically claim that all the investment gold in coin form is nothing more than "collectables".  You and I both know, though, that claiming so would be idiotic and a lie.  Yet you continue to make an equally egregious lie regarding gold "jewelry".

It is the purpose for which gold is bought and held, NOT the form, that truly matters!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"It is the purpose for which gold is bought and held, NOT the form, that truly matters!"

Clearly it matters the form. ETF & bars both fall under "investor" but I know you'd see a world of difference between the two. So it makes a lot of sense to separate ETF tonnage demand from bar / coin. 

Just as it makes sense to separate jewellery out as it is fundamentally a different market. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

 

Just as it makes sense to separate jewellery out as it is fundamentally a different market.

NO, it is NOT fundamentally a different market!

In the Middle East and South Asia, gold jewelry IS in fact the "investment market".  Gold as a form of savings and investment in that region of the world has traditionally been, and continues to be, held overwhelmingly in the form of jewelry, NOT as coins or bars.  The extremely high-karat, impractically soft nature of most of that gold "jewelry" is alone proof enough of that fact.

I will repeat this again, as in your dishonesty you refuse to acknowledge it: your specious and untruthful argument is exactly akin to trying to suggest that all the investment gold in the Western world that is held in the form of coins is nothing more than "collectables".

It is now quite clear that, due to your obstinant, blatant and repeated lying regarding gold (and not on just this one issue), you are a purposeful anti-gold troll.  I suspect you may even be Jon Nadler himself, as your every post literally reeks of the many anti-gold half-truths and outright lies that he loved to incessantly repeat in his inexplicable role as official spokesman for Kitco in the course of more than five years.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:25 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

NO, it is NOT fundamentally a different market!

In the Middle East and South Asia, gold jewelry IS in fact the "investment market"

It's a differnet market for a lot of reasons, but a few obvious would be it's bought in smaller denominations by a larger group of people & at a much higher premium. It also regionally has particularly unique aspects. 

The person buying a 100 oz bar is a very different investor than the people buying gold jewellery (whether for investment or whatever). 

In any case, your point (that people buying gold jewellery do so as an investment) is moot at best so I don't see why you get all up in arms about it. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

 

It's a differnet market for a lot of reasons, but a few obvious would be it's bought in smaller denominations by a larger group of people & at a much higher premium. It also regionally has particularly unique aspects.

More distraction, more irrelevancies, more lies.  Welcome to ZH Jon Nadler!

I keep proving to you that the bulk of what you lump together as the world "jewelry market' is fundamentally NOT a different market from that which you narrowly define as the "investment market", as it IS in fact the "investment market" for that vastly signficant (from the standpoint of gold) part of the world.

The facts regarding the "denominations" (an utterly inappropriate and meaningless word in this context, as 'denomination' refers to coins only and NOT jewelry) in which that jewelry is purchased are irrelevant and nothing but a red herrings argument --- an empty distraction from the fundamental realities of the situation.  And if you knew anything about Indian gold jewelry, you would know that the effective premiums are quite low, and quite in line with those applying to Western gold coins, at least those of fractional-ounce denominations. 

Furthermore, the fact that Middle Eastern and South Asian demand for investment gold in the form of jewelry is "regional" has utterly nothing to do with the reality that it is in fact investment demand --- would you dismiss American and European investment demand for gold coins purely because such demand is "regional" as well?  How about the traditional Asian demand for gold in the form of bars --- that is regional as well, so can it likewise be dismissed from considation as "investment gold"?

Really, the illogical arguments you continue to throw out make me more and more suspect that you may actually be Jon Nadler, as they are SO representative of the many dishonest anti-gold arguments that he made in his capacity as the daily voice of the gold-hating bankster elite while spokesman for Kitco.  All you lack (so far) is his smug and insufferable condescension and arrogance.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Three things:

First no I'm not Jon Nadler.

Second, you don't seem to recognize my point. The reason I highlight the jewellery market is because it's a market we can all agree is physical - that's the main reason I bring it up. It's also a particularly robust market with a long history. 

Thrid, as far as 'regional' I meant the jewellery market can be vastly different depending on where in the world you are looking, basically there are a lot of unique characteristics depending on the location. I didn't mean 'regional' in a negative way. 

The take-away is that a big physical marketplace with a long history has been shrinking while ETF's have expanded, to me that's disconcerting. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 17:43 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

And you STILL continue to lie, and badmouth gold in every possible way!

If you are not Jon Nadler, you are his doppelganger.

Why do you LIE and try to claim that "the big physical (jewelry) marketplace with a long history has been shrinking"?  Where do you have any proof of that?  Because any numbers that I have seen over the past few years do not bear that up in any way --- quite the contrary, in fact, as Indian gold purchases and net investment have been robust even in the face of the reimposition of government import fees levied against gold.

Also, it is a fact that precious metal ETF stockpiles (assuming they are all unrehypothecated and held as claimed) have been roughly flat over the past three years, and in recent months been experiencing net OUTFLOWS, not inflows (see GLD here).  But I see how you once again dishonestly try to boost and take the side of the manipulated 'paper gold' market over the honest and transparent physical market.

I can smell an anti-gold troll a mile away, you SOB, and you reek.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 17:56 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Why do you LIE and try to claim that "the big physical (jewelry) marketplace with a long history has been shrinking"?  Where do you have any proof of that?"

http://www.perthmintbullion.com/Libraries/News_Reports/Gold_Demand_2012....

The link you supplied from SA is for SPDR GLD.

Here's the bigger picture:

Detailed numbers on all categories (ETF breakdown  by q / yr on pg19):

http://www.gold.org/investment/research/regular_reports/gold_demand_tren...

I can smell an anti-gold troll a mile away, you SOB, and you reek.

Lol, I'm not anti-gold - anyone who takes ten seconds to look at current economic policy has a strong case to make for holding gold. I think it's important to cut out some of the noise though, a lot of snake oil salesmen in the gold market telling people to hold no matter what, selling their crappy etfs, moronic newsletters etc. etc. 

My attitude is it's a very good idea to hedge your positions and take profit strategically + scrutinize the supply / demand fundamentals.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Lol, I'm not anti-gold - anyone who takes ten seconds to look at current economic policy has a strong case to make for holding gold. I think it's important to cut out some of the noise though, a lot of snake oil salesmen in the gold market telling people to hold no matter what, selling their crappy etfs, moronic newsletters etc. etc.

Then why have you repeatedly, and dishonstly, tried to dismiss much of Middle Eastern and South Asian gold investment demand as mere "jewelry", as if the form of the gold held really matters to its intended function?

Furthermore, why do you again LIE about increasing ETF demand for gold, when YOUR OWN LINK unambiguously demonstrates that that demand has FALLEN over the last several years?  LOL!

Given that a number of demonstrated anti-gold, ptr-bankster shills, such as Jon Nadler, have consistently engaged i the same disingenuous arguments as you have here, I find your refusal to acknowledge any of the irrelevancies, untruths and misrepresentations inherent in those arguments revealing.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 

 

Furthermore, why do you again LIE about increasing ETF demand for gold, when YOUR OWN LINK unambiguously demonstrates that that demand has FALLEN over the last several years?  LOL!

Are you referring to the graph? The graph doesn't break out ETFs as a separate component of investment, from the report (of which that graph originates):

"A 17% drop in demand for bars and coins together with a 51% increase in ETFs and similar products created a 10% reduction in investment demand. Adding in a positive contribution from OTC investment and stock flows (a measure of the less transparent institutional elements of the market, as well as being a statistical residual) gives total investment of 1,582.5t, 3% lower than 2011.

Barring a flat second quarter, ETFs benefitted from steady inflows throughout the rest of the year, with a wave of buying seen in Q3 on expectations of further monetary policy easing across the globe"

On pg13 you can see ETF demand trends yoy since '09.

Then why have you repeatedly, and dishonstly, tried to dismiss much of Middle Eastern and South Asian gold investment demand as mere "jewelry", as if the form of the gold held really matters to its intended function?

Why would I dismiss it?? My whole point (again) is the worrying trend that that area of gold buying is going down while ETF's are expanding - obviously, I value the jewellery segment of the market.

 

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:13 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

The ETF's are a bankster sham. Wake the fuck up.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 11:34 | Link to Comment Ctrl_P
Ctrl_P's picture

This is getting so narrow we might not even fit in a godwin's law arguement.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:15 | Link to Comment outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Perhaps you should rethink that. In the latest OMFIF report about including gold in SDR's, which page was it that they mentioned silver?

 

Where was silver mentioned in Executive Order 6102?

 

In my view there is much more political risk in gold than in silver.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment silverisgold
silverisgold's picture

Well, if a worldwide recession kicks in, and industrial use is reduced, then of course since silver is mostly a by-product of other mining activity, which will also fall off, supply will fall off sharply as well, which should support price.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:42 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

It's a very tough metal.

www.lbma.org.uk/assets/5b_dirienzo_lbma2006.pdf

Please note that RFID's are made from silver.  In fact it's the main component because of the hygiene factors.  It's how quality prosthetics are manufactured to not kill the person with a surgical pin, bone graft, screws, new hip, etc.  All the bits used to bolt someone together are made of silver because it's so benign.

Alternatively you could also view it from a darker angle.  The western world has a shadow bank of silver stashed in it's own population.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Hey nope-1104, that's not fair. It's different this time!!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:31 | Link to Comment BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

LULULEMON

.

Great 'track pants' - for $250.lol

 

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment de3de8
de3de8's picture

jCP

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

OK.  I'm patiently waiting to buy a shitload at $18.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

With all this demand, the price tanks and you can still buy silver for less than a $0.50 - $0.99 over spot.

Is this going to snap back soon? Live spot getting cheaper by the minute: http://www.pmbull.com/silver-price/

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Lest you think I'm whining, I love it when the chart looks like the link above.  

It's the best time to buy.

The fact that dealers are selling cheap with free shipping makes it that much better.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:35 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

I'm a patient person.  Let's see where this goes

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 22:29 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

+1 - But I'm not that patient -- below $26 (or GSR > 57.4) my truck and boat get backed up.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

'Fair' is a made-up word.

But you're probably referring to fair from the perspective of the Ricardian Labour theory of value - which is at best questionable, as an item has the worth man is willing to pay for it, not what it costs to manufacture.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:35 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

"an item has the worth man is willing to pay for it, not what it costs to manufacture"

But if the market value is four times mining costs, then miners will flood the market with supply. Sadly, we're already starting to see this happen in silver. This avalanche in new supply is going to knock most feeble silverbugs off their toes so fast they won't even know what hit them.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

<== Facebook hits $18 first [& they do a reverse split]

<== Ag hits $18 first

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Silver was $18 once, before Facebook was a public company, so I choose Silver.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

so given your arguments, an iphone 5 is really supposed to sell for $150, because that's what it costs to put together, right?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:06 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

EK the trolls have been in hiding for a long time on ZH but that is the same argument that other trolls have made on ZH.  I always use designer clothing as the counter argument because everyone knows someone that paid $50 for a t-shirt or $150 for sneakers or $100 for jeans that cost fractions to produce.  It seems nobody has a problem with companies that are selling products for 20x, 30x, 100x what they cost to manufacture except for miners apparently.

 

Incidentally the gold miners just updated their cost per ounce:

For Barrick and Goldcorp

"The new measure averaged $941 an ounce between the two companies in the fourth quarter. That’s 50 percent higher than the $626 average so-called cash cost they disclosed in the preceding three months."

"The average cash cost of 10 of the biggest gold miners was $694 an ounce in the third quarter, 49 percent higher than in the same period two years earlier, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The average gold price rose 35 percent in the same comparison."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-27/gold-miners-come-clean-on-costs...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:10 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"The average cash cost of 10 of the biggest gold miners was $694 an ounce in the third quarter, 49 percent higher than in the same period two years earlier, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The average gold price rose 35 percent in the same comparison."

This is because they are mining lower grade deposits, as the price of gold goes up projects which were unthinkable a decade ago have been finally coming online.

If you look at projects 5 years out, the only ones that have any level of interest are the ones with cash costs of ~$500 and proper infrastructure ready to go.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Quit talking out of your ass. Production costs have been skyrocketing across the board for the miners.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:40 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Quit talking out of your ass. Production costs have been skyrocketing across the board for the miners."

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4b1c33300000000000611776-590/cl...

Barrick in particular has gotten a lot of flack for this. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yes, and anyone promoting Barrick is a total numbskull. They are the worst mining company on the planet. A Den of Thieves.

Owning physical metal is the only game in town. Especially at bargain prices like right now.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:34 | Link to Comment natronic
natronic's picture

I'm not buying silver for it's $ value.  I'm buying silver so I have something when the $ is worth nothing and they issue a new currency.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The graphene comment was just plain silly.

However, you are still 100% mind-numbingly BORING.

Fag.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:33 | Link to Comment jimijon
jimijon's picture

I disagree... graphene is pretty amazing stuff and will revolutionize industries.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:45 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

that might very well be true, but let's remain cautiously optimistic here.

i can't even count the amount of times amazing discoveries which promised to change the world... wound up ultimately being a big disappointment.

the likelihood of something working is inversely proportional to how revolutionary is it.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:58 | Link to Comment Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Segway

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 02:22 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

When LASERs were first invented, no one could think of a practical use for them, looking around today, they're more common than buttholes...

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Graphene will be unaffordable after applying the carbon credits.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:43 | Link to Comment Tim_
Tim_'s picture

"Graphene and Human Brain Project win largest research excellence award in history, as battle for sustained science funding continue"

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-54_en.htm

"The winning Graphene and Human Brain initiatives are set to receive one billion euros each, to deliver 10 years of world-beating science at the crossroads of science and technology."

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

So let's all buy banking shares in American companies....Oh wait, Soros dumped almost a million of those shares. in fact, most billionares are dumping their shares as the top is in and the Titanic has a nice debt bomb iceberg licking its chops for a nice side swipe. Feel free to go against the BillionDollarBonus.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:29 | Link to Comment natronic
natronic's picture

Graphene will end up eating into silicon and copper but not silver.  They are still learning how to produce it and manufacturing it is very expensive.  I bet you love wind and solar and hate gasoline also.  

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:29 | Link to Comment banshee
banshee's picture

Checked the cost of grapene lately?.....

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

 

 

Let's see how it sounds: 

Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 revised: "No State shall...coin money; emit bills of credit;make any Thing but gold and GRAPHENE (?!?) coin a Tender in Payment of Debts..."

Nope. Silver Is Money.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:31 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hve fun trading your "graphene" aka Carbon Coins, when TSHTF Million Dollar Bone Head...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

Funny... NET INCOME of the top 10 Silver Miners in Q3 2012 was 78% less than Q3 2011.  Break even for the primary silver miners as a group is about $26-$28.  Fair value at $18...LOL

You call that facts?  $85.2 trillion in global conventional assets under management that are nothing more than ENERGY IOU's... basically energy debts. Gold and silver have their energy already locked in... PAID IN FULL.

I am not suprised to see this sort of insanity coming from individuals who have been neutered from the head down for the past 40 years in a fiat dollar regime. 

As they stay... STUPID IS... STUPID DOES

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:48 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Since nothing but facts are posted in response to EVERY MDB comment due to his sarcasm, he is aiding in the dissemination of silver facts and why owning PM's must be done in this environment.

So he's either a complete fool, not realizing that for every 1 of his comments, 20 get posted revealing his holes showing why owning PM's is bullish.

Or, he's an ardent silver bug who knows that his sarcastic comments will incite real facts from informed ZH'ers and be published for the entire world to read.

Either way, thank you MDB.  Bullish posts, my friend!

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:57 | Link to Comment HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

I luv to read MDB comments he is indeed a true silver bug. He just points out what the Spin machine repeats over and over again about silver or gold. His sarcasm is refreahing to me.  He is a constent reminder of how the central planners try to Manipulate the facts.  I agree with u that "his sarcastic comments will incite real facts from informed ZH'ers and be published for the entire world to read."  

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:51 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I'm afraid my research demonstrates that the average mining cost for an ounce of silver is precisely $4.50. This yields a fair value of 4 x $4.50 = $18 per ounce. If miners cannot turn a profit, it simply has to be due to operational efficiency alone. None of this changes the fact that silver miners will be flooding the market with silver in the coming days, months and years. Silverbugs are in for a brutal shock, and they better be ready for it.  

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:54 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"If miners cannot turn a profit, it simply has to be due to operational efficiency alone."

You're misunderstanding the costs, the truth is there aren't that many really great high grade silver deposits out there.

The price has to hang out around ~$30 for a flood of silver (which has been happening) but if it dips too far below that for a sustained period you'll see investment in the miners disappear....which has already been happening. 


Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:07 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

MDB ~ If the cost of digging silver out of the ground is $4.50 an ounce I'll pay you minimum wage to do the job for me... I'll expect at least a dozen ounces for a days work... You can supplement your HerbalLife income that way & help pay down your Ivy League education... Either that, or keep 'dollar cost averaging' on FB...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:03 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

MDB is a loser, he is long duration, that is short the present good and long the future cash flows.

Did someone send you the memo that there is too much debt to GDP? Or restated otherwise, there are too many finanical assets to circulation.

Circulation is the exchange of present good. Did Goldman Sachs send you the memo that the Fed is trying to target nominal GDP? That is increase in teh nominal circulation level --GDP-- (made of present goods) which will rise in relation to Financial Assets (debt and Equities).

Are you claiming that we are going to increase yet again debt to GDP and increase the duration.

If you do, you do not understand the relationship between present good and future goods, duration and inflation. Go back to sleep MDB, you have not completed your economics properly. You probable regurgitated post 1950s BS textbook crap.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:13 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

$4.50 in 2007 = $5.00 in 2013 according to the BLS Inflation Calculator.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Really?  My research indicates that the mining cost is -4.50/oz, and that capital costs are typically in the neighborhood of -500 million, so pretty soon I expect the price of silver to go negative - you'll have to pay to get rid of it.  Coin dealers will be giving it away just to avoid the ever-rising cost of holding it. 

 

The only thing that you can count on to increase in value is paper, and of course, the binary representation of quantities of paper, as represented in computer memory and various storage devices.  THOSE are your true stores of value, primarily on account of their immediate availability, accessibility, ease of storage, portability, and the fact that they can be created in infinite quantities.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:28 | Link to Comment SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

$4.50 an ounce??  Oh where do you get that INFO.  Hell, even GFMS who does the World Silver Survey's gives a $7.50 cash cost per ounce for silver in 2011.  I would imagine that will be more like $8.50-9 in 2012.  And this is not all COSTS.

Silver Standard announced a $29 an ounce TOTAL PRODUCTION COST.  I guess they have to lose $11 an ounce to produce that $18 an ounce silver.

Anyhow, this is the sort of LOUSY ANALYSIS you find all over the internet.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:41 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

But, but, I thought it only cost $5 to dig silver from the ground?!

And anyway, you know, the shit is everywhere!

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:06 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

I am a marginalist like you. What is the cost of a dollar bill? When the wise shows the sky, the idiot looks at the finger. I am looking at the finger because a price is a ratio of something versus something else.

Maybe Silver is too expensive in relation to Germanium, or Orange juice, but not in USD.

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 22:23 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Damn, does that means I'm now LOSING 10% by digging it out of the ground for $5?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:54 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Funny... NET INCOME of the top 10 Silver Miners in Q3 2012 was 78% less than Q3 2011.  Break even for the primary silver miners as a group is about $26-$28."

So what if miners produce silver below cost? All that suggests is don't invest in miners who solely ship silver - it's never made sense (until recently). With a higher silver price a lot of new companies have come online specializing in silver, but if the price ever dips they're all going out of business. Silver supply will be met by gold / copper projects etc. and high grade deposits as it traditionally has. 

Contrary to the title of this article, silver demand is down - we'll see how far in April.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:35 | Link to Comment SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

SILVER VALUE FOR DUMMIES..

I see we still have a portion of the PUBLIC neutered from the HEAD DOWN as it pertains to the value of silver.  I would like to remind these NITWITS that the FED is buying 90% of the U.S. Treasuries.

If there was 100 million oz surplus of silver at $40 an ounce... it would cost some central banker slob $4 billion to buy ALL THIS SILVER.  The Fed is buying $85 billion a month of Treasuries and MBS.  This would be 5% of just one month of FED purchases.

Again, Silver Supply & Demand has nothing to do with price right now.... as there are literally $100's of Trillions of paper debts-assets that have no real value.

When the NITWIT finally realizes this and decides BY GOSH, I need to get Physical Silver, they will be sitting their with their THUMB STUCK UP THEIR ***

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

Funny, I have not seen any "Graphene" coins on the market.  I did hear that they were replacing the Silver metal at the Olympics with Graphene - think how fortunate those 2nd place winners will be!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:41 | Link to Comment MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

I can't wait for 18 an ounce. I'm a silver hoarding junky!!!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment 2bit Hoarder
2bit Hoarder's picture

i gave a ten ounce bar for a nice AK 47 ... almost works like "real" money

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 21:55 | Link to Comment Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Good deal!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment No Euros please...
No Euros please we&#039;re British's picture

MDB, normally I appreciate your sarcasm, but if you think silver mining output increases apace, then you are mistaken. Most silver is a byproduct of other mining activity, most pure silver mines are considered uneconomic owing to the exceptionally low price of silver. But then if you supress the price of an industrial metal you have to to accept the consequences, I would think that they whole paper silver ponzi will collapse very soon, as industry does not accept paper, but they do accept artificially low prices and appreciate the need to stockpile against future shortage or any sudden shock elevation in price.

Short silver at your peril, sod the silver bugs, the silver consuming manufacturers are coming to wipe you out.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:14 | Link to Comment 2bit Hoarder
2bit Hoarder's picture

there are a lot of industrial uses besides as a conductor.

medical applications (superior antibiotic properties)

solar panels (most reflective metal on the planet)

photography (including medical X-rays)

increasingly used in most high end appliances where killing bacteria is beneficial (washing macines, blenders, etc)

the industrial uses are nearly endles

 

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:06 | Link to Comment SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

graphene solder?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:24 | Link to Comment GeorgesamaBushLaden
GeorgesamaBushLaden's picture

Dam, you're an idiot, Million Dollar Anus, or you're a trolling shill for JP Morgan. Given all the QE money counterfeiting going on, Silver should already be somewhere between $150-$200 an oz. Due to popular demand, the US mint ran out of Silver Eagles in January, the Canadian mint nearly ran out Maples the same month, and this month looks like another record of delivery orders for the metal. The paper market is the only reason the spot price is dropping, and that's because the bankster boys at CRIMEX are afraid of letting the price cross the $50 threshold (they know that's when it will go parabolic), because they are completely overleveraged to the tune of about 100:1. The Precious Metals manipulation completely rivals LIBOR and other bankster scandals. When this thing plays out, and large holders of silver attempt to claim their holdings, it's GAME OVER for the manipulators. They're crashing the price in a futile attempt to snatch up more physical. I'm not parting with mine, and no fool would sell the physical at these prices. 

If you think $18 is fair value for silver, I say you're completely full of shit. It will never drop that low, because smart people will jump in and buy it up long before it drops to that level. This blatently manipulated takedown may push the price down to about $26 an oz., but I'll bet your counterfeit paper-lovin' ass it will never reach $18 again. I'll buy it all the way down, and am not the least bit inclined to sell any of my physical holdings. Given that there is only 1/8 of an oz of above ground silver for every living being on the planet (which is less than the above ground supply of gold), I'm hardly afraid of it's temporary devaluation. Rhodium (another shiny silvery metal) fetches $1,300 an oz, and was over $2,300 at one point because of its rarity. Silver will share the same fate, because it is the poor man's gold. It is the most undervalued asset in history.

Once this inflated debt/equity bubble explodes, I'll bet we'll see no more postings from Bernanke-lovin' douchebags like you; but I will miss the humor in your foolish remarks which are completely divergent from reality. You'll be out freezing in the street, homeless, covered by a mound of worthless Federal Reserve notes.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:49 | Link to Comment willpoi
willpoi's picture

MillionDollarBonus, Do you work for GS?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:49 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Based on current CPI measurement methods, when silver gets to high, consumers will simply subsitute zinc for silver

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:01 | Link to Comment sbfeibish
sbfeibish's picture

I can understand all the arguments except for graphene.

Isn't any production graphene application going to take some time to appear.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment chokeNpuke
chokeNpuke's picture

To the Dollar goons like yourself; the United States is going to pay off the $16.5 trillion debt & growing in the next 20 years with inflation at 1.9%..as long as the debt keeps growing the only thing that can keep silver down is the manipulation going on right NOW.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 18:58 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Are you long duration? Loser.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

 

 

People are buying silver and gold coins because of "tradition".

- Ben Bernanke

Not stated by Ben, was that the tradition is moving to other money when the central banks debase paper currency.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

And we will relentlessly hammer the price until they brake with it.  The thing that he did not say.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:18 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Same idea for buying the 1/10th oz Gold Eagles.  Not worth it to plate tungsten.  Can feel safer buying the littel pieces.

Any reports of fake 1 oz Gold Eagles yet?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:23 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Fake AGEs are rampant.  Get a widget to detect them.  See my comment below....

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:34 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

For a while now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF_64Upp6Gk

http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www?post=211951

http://www.silverdoctors.com/300-fake-perth-mint-gold-bars-discovered-in...

 

Electicial resistance for both is in a chemistry book.  Use that information, acids/chemical peels are handy, but electric resistance is very expensive to fake if next to impossible.

Gold

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/JennelleBaptiste.shtml

Silver

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2004/GeorgeBauer.shtml

Tools to test.

http://www.omega.ca/prodinfo/rtd.html

 

Good luck and question everything offered.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Good luck dragging all that shit to a coin show or local dealer's joint to pick up a few coins.

"Say, do you mind if I take these back to my lab for a day or so to test the authenticity?"

Just weight and dimensions are plenty 'nuff to do the job.  Having an "eye" for the real thing helps as well.

There are very few coin aficionados who are fooled by the fakes, but there are some excellent fakes out there.

Jewelry shops are being duped all the time by folks bringing in just a few fakes mixed into circulated coin lots.

I gave ya a greenie anyow, since knowing this information makes the entire job easier, whether it is employed to its fullest or not.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:54 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Bought some 'junk silver' the other week [mostly dimes] & had to sift thru it before I took it away... Oops ~ 2 buffalo nickles... How'd they get in there?...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:06 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Easy to spot:  No reeding.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment AwlDone
AwlDone's picture

DCRB- I have a Buffalo 1oz. Gold coin, 2009, sealed from the US Mint and it has corrosion on the hind leg... Bought it 3 years ago and just pulled it out when taking inventory... initial reaction was disbelief and I checked the packaging.   I have had two others look at it with dissecting microscopes(I teach Anatomy) and we all came to the same conclusion... not .9999 gold.  something is majorly wrong here.  Also not so sure about the smaller items being safe.  I had one PAMP 1 oz sealed bar that also had a corrosion spot.  Contact me if you want more info and or a pic.  A bit un-nerving.  Both were bought through a reputable, well known company.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

Nah, the drilling part is easy, the gold outer layer is nice and soft.
The hard part seems to be glueing all those bits back in place to pass the dud coin on to the next greater fool.

This seems like a problem ripe for exploiting. How long until we see dealers offering authenticity testing in various forms for a "modest" fee?

Will that come before or after stackers start getting coins with bite marks on them? Hah!

Enjoy this sale, all I heard from the Bernanke was that he expects to need two sets of suspenders to hold up his pants when stuffed with enough inflated FRNs to buy bread.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

Blue light special on barbaric relics.

 

 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:15 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Paging Dr. Paul Krugman, Paging Dr. Krugman!

Could it be that your detractors have had the last word?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:02 | Link to Comment SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

"the US Mint has seen the largest demand for physical silver coins ever for a February"

the number are not driven by demand

the article should say that authorized purchases have standing orders for more coins than the mint supplies. more than the mint even *can* supply.

the mint's sales should be understood as an allotment. a dole. an allowance. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

...suppied by the U.S. mint.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:21 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

There is an article in the most recent issue about fake silver rounds as well, including Prospectors.  I guess the gold balance gadgets guys better get busy on a silver coin detector.   I use my gold balance all the time. It's quick and dirty.  Can't wait for the silver model.

http://www.goldcoinbalance.com/

Here's another type, same principal but costs more:

http://www.thefisch.com/howitworks.html?content=operation

Here's a handy chart:

Gold Bullion Coins Specifications
Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

+1   Looks like the Vernier Calipers I use for reloading have another use..

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Does this device work underwater at a level of 3 atmospheres?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:47 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Nope... and neither does much else.

They try not to have many coin shows at those depths since attendance seems to be a bit thin.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:27 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

If you must go boating with yer PMs, verify before you go   ;)

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:48 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

How would that device detect a tungsten counterfeit?  Size and weight would be the same as gold.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:58 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If there's somebody that is in the coin shop SELLING while you're there [& the coin shop is cutting them a check], ask to buy THAT inventory...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 22:15 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Got a krug at 1/2 premium the other day like that -- just had to wait for the LCS to remove it from the 14K bezel and chain, sweet.

Fri, 03/01/2013 - 01:35 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

For various reasons, e.g. fear of theft and counterfeits, excess markup, etc., I don't patronize coin shops.

Rocky's device won't detect good, i.e. gold plated tungsten, counterfeits.  Best bet is probably new Eagles or Maples from a distributor like Tulving or a Canadian bank.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

If there was an avialable metric for W sales, tha could prove instructive, in correlation and over time.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment THECOMINGDEPRESSION
THECOMINGDEPRESSION's picture

The lower it gets the more people will buy. Say GOODBYE to the Apple computer, it will be extinct. Now them Google glasses...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Bandit und Buster
Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment mac768
mac768's picture

... and the "paper silver" testing a double bottom on behalf of the money printers....

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Time to drop acid and read Jim Willie.  Back in a few days...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Longtermnotreally
Longtermnotreally's picture

The lucky bastard in Costa Rica, love that guy

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Mrs. Cog carefully read Jim Willie for the first time yesterday. I have been reading Wee Willie for years. Not an hour ago I finally convinced Mrs. Cog that it was safe enough to put down the 12 gauge and to come down from the tree fort where she had spent the night. :)

<Jim Willie is NOT for the faint hearted.>

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

LOL, so true.  No shortage of opinions on just about everything too!

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

It took a large bag of peanut M&M's and the promise of an extra long backrub to persuade Mrs. Cog, but she finally relented and descended. However, she has not abandoned the 12 gauge and might not for at least a week.

The thing about Jim Willie is that he never stops. Once you have digested one or two paragraphs he hits you again a little further down. The best way to read Jim is 6-12 months behind. Then you really do appreciate how correct he often is.

The worst that can be said about Jim is that he is consistently early. Some people say that this is the same as being wrong. That all depends on if you are trading his info or preparing using his info. 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:24 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

The blurbs regarding Jimmy Carter and Mark Zuckerberg.....awesome.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:26 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

How come Willie, Jim isn't in the reading list at the top of the ZH page?  Odd.

BTW, regarding the Walmart artile about falling sales, etc., came across this which might help explain the phenomenon:

Wal-Mart's Massmart sees slower growth as credit debt climbs

By Bloomberg News

— Massmart Holdings Ltd., the African food and general goods retailer controlled by Wal-Mart Stores Inc., has seen a “large” increase in the use of credit cards that may weigh on sales, Chief Executive Officer Grant Pattison said.

“The carry cost of debt is eating into disposable income,” Pattison said in a phone interview from Johannesburg on Thursday. “We expect to see customers paying back debt, rather than extending further debt” in 2013.

Massmart is among several South African retailers to warn that rising credit payments toward the end of last year may lead to a prolonged slump in consumer spending.

Truworths International Ltd., South Africa’s biggest clothing retailer by market value, warned of “escalating levels of debt” earlier this month, while Shoprite Holdings Ltd. said fuel price increases and labor unrest will hold back spending in the first half of 2013.

Massmart profit fell 23 percent to $78.2 million in the six months through Dec. 23 because of weaker consumer confidence and the costs of selling control to Wal-Mart, the Johannesburg-based company said in a statement.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:36 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

To help relieve her lingering Jim Willie stress Mrs. Cog just returned from some Wal-Mart reconnaissance. She was shocked to find many empty shelves and large gaps between products. Many of her "stock up" items were completely missing.

Unfortunately that just gave her the "Jim Willie" willies and she's back up the tree with the shotgun.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Stacking is the only cure for the Jim Willies, I've found.  And, watch out for those backrubs, the last one I gave out resulted in child #2.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:49 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Solution:  vasectomy.  Worked for me.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:50 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Mrs. Cog had me fixed a while back. She's been nursing me back to health ever since. 

<If I'd known it was gonna be this good I would have done it years ago.>  :)

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I hope your urologist didn't use a rusty can opener like mine did.  I got epididymitis and it was a bitch.  But that was back in the mid 1980s so the memory is fading -- thank goodness.  Never did much like folks messin' with the nads (with tools that is).

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:01 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Better check to see if Wal-Mart is stocked up on frozen peas...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:05 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

No rusty can opener. But the dissolvable stitches turned out to be of the permanent kind. I was not pleased.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

If you ever wanted to send Madame Cog into hiding, have her read "Gold Warriors" ... and realize that all nations on earth are run by sociopathic madmen working through ancient and highly secure enabling hierarchies.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:16 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I have a copy locked away on my bookshelf. Mrs. Cog does not go near my weapons of mass destruction distraction. :)

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 14:42 | 3282858

bank guy in Brussels

Vote up!

34
Vote down!

-2

Golden fire and brimstone today from the great Jim Willie -

Fabulous stuff -

How the framework for international trade settlement in gold rather than the US dollar is already in place

How Germany is aligning with Russia and China, ready to 'swing' from West to East in the new world arrangements of gold-backed trade

Why China and Russia have 5 to 10 times more gold than they admit

Why Hong Kong is the safest place to store gold

How the West is sabotaging mining stocks, and people should own true physical gold instead

How JP Morgan interest rate swaps are fabricating 'demand' for US Treasuries to keep yields low

« The US citizens remain the worst informed people of any industrialized nation, and the most subjected to propaganda. »

« JPMorgan runs the Iraqi Export Bank in Baghdad Iraq, which serves as the clearing house for Afghan narcotics »

« The Zero Percent Interest Rate Policy will remain in place until the USGovt debt default occurs. » And the US dollar dies.

Always terrific reading

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1361998800.php

Wed, 02/27/2013 - 15:10 | 3282988 DavidPierre Vote up!

15
Vote down!

-1

A four part History Channel pile of bullshit...

Now CNBC's Rick Santelli... again... and again ... and again.

Come on TDs tighten up your game.

Where is Jim Willie's soapbox on ZH for christsake?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Jim Willie is not on ZH cause he is willing to talk truth about HAARP and S.A.G and the weather manipulators and ZH seems to ignore or refuse to bring this topic up.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:30 | Link to Comment e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Not to belittle Mrs. Cog's choice of weapons, but you may want to get her an AR instead.
http://www.ijreview.com/2013/02/38482-humorous-women-take-joe-bidens-buy...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Jim Willie?  Is there a link?

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Found two links.  Thank you kindly for the heads-up.

Here's a link in return:  http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/27/david-rosenberg-why-cash-is-your-least-safe-bet/ 

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:43 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

"Time to drop acid and read Jim Willie.  Back in a few days..."

Here is the latest:

Jim Willie: Gritty Questions on the Historic Collapse:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/jim-willie-gritty-questions-on-the-historic...

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:46 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yes....that's the one that has Mrs. Cog up the tree once again.   :>)

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:03 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I'm building a fort out of couch cushions as we speak:

"Two flows of funds have kept the big US banks going. The first is the financial derivative trades that grew out of control in the 1990 decade and became vogue. They are totally unregulated, and therefore subject to grand fraud. For instance a big financial firm might have credit default swap contracts against its bond bust that total 200 times the value of the corporate bonds themselves. It like the entire neighborhood owning a fire insurance policy on a single home. To lite the home ablaze can be profitable for some participating investors. The banks have an extremely large volume of both credit default swaps and the more important interest rate swap contracts. In fact, JPMorgan owns $82 trillion in interest rate derivatives, which exceeds the size of the global economy. No regulation in oversight means the big US and London banks can rig the prices, even counterfeit some of the contracts held. Notice the LIBOR banker scandal that emerged in 2012 to shock the world. It will spread, not shrink, as all major financial markets are corrupted. The second very important source of funds is basic narcotics money laundering, the biggest beneficiaries being the New York banks. Few realize that JPMorgan runs the Iraqi Export Bank in Baghdad Iraq, which serves as the clearing house for Afghan narcotics. A ripe 85% of all heroin in the world comes from Afghanistan. Terrorists pale by comparison in importance in the war mission. The United Nations has issued several drug related finance reports that have identified the big US banks as primary centers for money laundering of narcotics funds. Some like Wachovia have pled guilty. In recent months, the Queen of England has been implicated, as have the Vatican bankers. Without the derivatives and money laundering, the big US banks would have folded and gone bust years ago."

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 19:30 | Link to Comment Toronto Kid
Toronto Kid's picture

Gods, Cog.  I'm only a quarter through the article and I'm ready to hit the dried food people for 8 more cases.

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 14:09 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Just received my weekly delivery. I love this stuff, stacking is so much fun

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 15:09 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Some context.

Feb silver ranges

2008: 21.34 - 16.63

2009: 13.90 - 11.89

2010: 17.63 - 16.29

2011: 38.15 - 33.56

2012: 35.63 - 31.08

2013: 32.10 - 28.44

Thu, 02/28/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

ah....the strange strange world of JPM and the CTFC. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!