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China's Housing Bubble Goes Mainstream America

Tyler Durden's picture





 

It has been four years since we first introduced the non-believing world to China's ghost cities. Two years later, we revisited to check on the widescale immigration that was expected to occur into these salubrious suburbs. Alas, another epic Keynesian fail as we so delicately described the 'if we build it, they will come' mentality. Now, four years after the news of the Chinese real estate bubble began to break on tin-foil hat-wearing blogs, the mainstream media (to wit, Sixty Minutes) have gone in depth - taking a wonderfully eery trip through these ghost cicties explaining the growing (and in some places popping) bubble in Chinese real estate markets. The incredulous host concludes this chilling saga, "Meanwhile, people who can afford it are still buying as much real estate as they can... potential buyers crowding buses to see new construction and new owners line up to register their new apts... Like us in our bubble, they just don't believe the good times will ever end."

 

 

 

CBS Sixty Minutes Transcript:

If trouble comes in threes, then what'll be the next global market to melt down after the U.S. and Europe? Some are looking nervously at China.

China has been nothing short of a financial miracle. In just 30 years, this state-controlled economy became the world's second largest, deftly managed by government policies and decrees.

One sector the authorities concentrated on was real estate and construction. But that may have created the largest housing bubble in human history. If you go to China, it's easy to see why there's all the talk of a bubble. We discovered that the most populated nation on earth is building houses, districts and cities with no one in them.

 

IT'S EMPTY!!

Lesley Stahl: So this is Zhengzhou. And we are on the major highway, or the major road. And it's rush hour.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yeah -

 

Lesley Stahl: And it's almost empty.

 

Gillem Tulloch is a Hong Kong based financial analyst who was one of the first to draw attention to the housing bubble in China. He's showing us around the new eastern district of Zhengzhou, in one of the most populated provinces in China - not that you'd know it. We found what they call a "ghost city" of new towers with no residents, desolate condos and vacant subdivisions uninhabited for miles, and miles, and miles, and miles of empty apartments.

 

Lesley Stahl: Why are they empty? I've heard that they have actually been sold.

 

Gillem Tulloch: They've all been sold. They've all been sold.

 

Lesley Stahl: They've all been sold? They're owned.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Absolutely.

 

Owned by people in China's emerging middle class, who now have enough money to invest but few ways to do it. They're not allowed to invest abroad, banks offer paltry returns, and the stock market is a rollercoaster. But 15 years ago, the government changed its policy and allowed people to buy their own homes and the flood gates opened.

 

Gillem Tulloch: So what they do is they invest in property because property prices have always gone up by more than inflation.

 

Lesley Stahl: And they believe it will always go up?

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yeah, just like they believed in the U.S.

 

Actually, property values have doubled and tripled and more -- so people in the middle class have sunk every last penny into buying five, even 10 apartments, fueling a building bonanza unprecedented in human history. No nation has ever built so much so fast.

REAL ESTATE IS CENTRAL TO THE CHINESE ECONOMY

Lesley Stahl: How important is real estate to the Chinese economy? Is it central?

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yes. It's the main driver of growth and has been for the last few years. Some estimates have it as high as 20 or 30 percent of the whole economy.

 

Lesley Stahl: But they're not just building housing. They're building cities.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yes. That's right.

GIANT GHOST CITIES

Lesley Stahl: Giant cities being built with people not coming to live here.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yes. I think they're building somewhere between 12 and 24 new cities every single year.

 

Unlike our market driven economy, in China it's the government that has spent some $2 trillion to get these cities built - as a way of keeping the economy growing. The assumption is "if you build it, they'll come." But no one's coming.

 

Lesley Stahl: Wow. This is really completely, totally empty and it goes up -

 

Gillem took us to this shopping mall that's been standing vacant for three years.

 

Lesley Stahl: Can I find this all over China?

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yes, you can. They've simply built too much infrastructure too quickly.

 

Lesley Stahl: But I see KFC behind you. I see Starbucks over there. I see some other very recognizable American franchises coming in here. At least they-- does that mean they have faith that this is going to ignite?

 

Gillem Tulloch: No, these are all fake signs. Just to get potential buyers the impression of what it might look like if they moved in.

 

Lesley Stahl: They're not real? So I see KFC didn't-

 

Gillem Tulloch: They haven't--

 

Lesley Stahl: Buy this space or rent this space?

 

Gillem Tulloch: No, they haven't.

 

Lesley Stahl: Starbucks?

 

Gillem Tulloch: No.

 

Lesley Stahl: They just put the sign up?

 

Gillem Tulloch: That's right.

 

It's all make-believe -- non-existent supply for non existent demand.

 

Lesley Stahl: Look at that. Swarovski. Piaget. They're hoping for high end too.

 

Gillem Tulloch: H&M. Zara.

 

Lesley Stahl: And it's all Potemkin.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Yeah.

 

It's surreal and it's everywhere. Like the city of Ordos in Mongolia built for a million people who didn't show up. And no, you are not in England. You're in Thames town -- a development near Shanghai built like an English village.

 

Gillem Tulloch: And it was finished, I think, around five or six years. And it must have cost close to a billion U.S. dollars. And you'll see, it's still standing there empty.

 

Lesley Stahl: Well, I heard that there is some industry there or some business, one business there.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Marriage.

 

Lesley Stahl: Wedding pictures!

 

And what's more uplifting than a wedding -- or 10? You can see these empty developments on the edge of almost every city in China.

WHAT ABOUT THE URBANIZATION?

Lesley Stahl: What about the idea that China is urbanizing? People are flooding into cities by the hundreds of millions. And that this really is a smart move: build the housing to accommodate the urbanization process.

 

Gillem Tulloch: Well, so people are being moved into the cities. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they can afford these apartments which, you know, cost $100,000 U.S. or whatever. I mean, these are poor people moving into the cities, so they're building the wrong sort of apartments.

 

And what's worse, to build all these massive cities, they've had to tear down what was there before, clearing rice fields and displacing by some counts tens of millions of villagers. On the edge of Zhengzhou, Gillem and I came upon a strange sight.

 

Lesley Stahl: I'm just watching what they're doing, these-- do you have any idea?

 

Gillem Tulloch: I think they're trying to recycle the bricks.

 

These villagers were salvaging what's left of their homes, bulldozed to make room for more empty condos, already encroaching in the distance.

 

Lesley Stahl: There are all these empty apartments over here. Can they conceivably move into those up-scale places?

NOONE CAN AFFORD IT SO THE BUBBLE BURTS

Gillem Tulloch: Most people in China live on about less than $2 a day. And these apartments probably cost upwards of $50,000 or $60,000 U.S. So it's very unlikely.

 

Lesley Stahl: What will happen to them, do you think?

 

Gillem Tulloch: I mean, they'll be forced to relocate somewhere. I have no idea where they'll go.

 

These are the immediate casualties of the building boom. And there's another problem: analysts warn that all this building has created a bubble that could burst.

 

Lesley Stahl: So if the bubble bursts, who's left holding the bag?

 

Gillem Tulloch: There are multiple classes of people that are going to get wiped out by this. People who have invested three generations worth of savings -- so grandparents, parents and children - into properties will see their savings evaporate. And then, of course, 50 million construction workers who are working on all these projects around China.

 

The prognosis of a bubble about to burst isn't only coming from financial gloom-and-doomers. We heard it from the most unlikely source.

 

Lesley Stahl: Are you the biggest home builder in the world?

 

Wang Shi: I think. Maybe.

 

Lesley Stahl: You may be?

 

Wang Shi: Yes. Only the quantity, not quality.

 

Wang Shi is modest, but his company, Vanke, is a $53 billion real estate empire, building more homes than anyone in China. He was born on the frontlines of communism, and joined the Red Army. But he secretly read forbidden books about capitalism, so that when China liberalized its economy, he rushed to the frontlines of the free market. Even he thinks today's situation is out of control.

HOW MUCH???

Lesley Stahl: Are homes in China too expensive today?

Wang Shi: Yeah.

Lesley Stahl: Here's a number I saw. A typical apartment in Shanghai costs about 45 times the average resident's annual salary.

Wang Shi: Even higher, even higher.

Lesley Stahl: What does that mean for your economy if it's just too expensive for the vast majority of people to buy?

Wang Shi: I think that dangerous.

Lesley Stahl: Dangerous.

THERE'S THE BUBBLE

Wang Shi: That's the bubble. So I think that's the problem.

 

Lesley Stahl: Is there a bubble?

 

Wang Shi: Yes, of course.

 

Lesley Stahl: There is a bubble and the issue is will it burst or not? That's the big issue--

 

Wang Shi: Yes, if that bubble - that's a disaster.

 

Lesley Stahl: If it burst?

 

Wang Shi: If it burst, that's a disaster.

 

To try and prevent the disaster the Chinese government decided to act. Heard of their one child policy? Since 2011, China has had what amounts to a one apartment policy, where it's very hard to buy more than one apartment in major cities. Because of this, prices plunged. The bubble was being tamed. And yet, the taming was creating all kinds of unintended consequences.

 

Lesley Stahl: Are many developers in debt?

 

Wang Shi: Yes, yes.

 

Lesley Stahl: And are many stopping development in the middle of projects 'cause they don't have the money to go forward?

 

Wang Shi: Yeah, that's problem. That's a huge problem.

 

A problem because the slowing down of construction led to a downturn in the overall economy. Unfinished projects dot China, and not just apartment buildings.

 

Lesley Stahl: Look at this. Can you believe it?

 

Analyst Anne Stevenson-Yang who has traveled across China showed us a giant project all but abandoned in the port city of Tianjin with concrete skeletons as far as the eye can see. The plan is to build a new financial district to rival Manhattan including a Lincoln Center and a World Trade Center, only taller. But it all seems frozen.

 

[Anne Stevenson-Yang: There's supposed to be a Rockefeller Center here.

 

Anne Stevenson-Yang: I hope they have a Christmas tree too. Skating rink.]

 

City officials told us everything stopped because developers want to build all the facades at once to match. But on the ground we heard a different explanation.

 

esley Stahl: Workers told us that many of these buildings haven't had any work done on them for weeks, months, as if the developers just don't have the money to go on.

 

Anne Stevenson-Yang: It's true. You see that happen first. The migrant workers will go home. That's often the first sign that the debt crisis is starting.

 

Lesley Stahl: The debt crisis?

 

Anne Stevenson-Yang: Well, when you stop paying your bills, then everything stops.

 

It could become a debt crisis because of the huge loans most of the developers took out. If they can't repay them, the whole economy'll seize up.

AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF A REAL ESTATE BUBBLE???

The government's great fear is that all this could lead to social unrest and that's not hypothetical.

 

Last year when home prices fell, it infuriated all those owners of multiple dwellings, who watched the value of their nest eggs plummet.

 

esley Stahl: And there's already been some demonstrations over real estate around the country.

 

Wang Shi: Yes.

 

Lesley Stahl: Have you had demonstrations against your showrooms anywhere? You're company?

 

Wang Shi: Often!

 

So often, Wang Shi shudders to think what would happen if the bubble actually burst.

 

Wang Shi: If that bubble break, that maybe who know what will happened? Maybe that-- maybe--maybe the next Arabic Spring--

 

Lesley Stahl: Arabic Spring. You mean people coming out and demonstrating.

 

Wang Shi: Hmmm.

 

Lesley Stahl: A lot of economists say that it's too big for even this government to control.

 

Wang Shi: A ha. I believe that top leaders have enough smart to deal with that. I hope!

 

Lesley Stahl: You're doing this.

 

Wang Shi: But that's uncertain.

Meanwhile, people who can afford it are still buying as much real estate as they can. They're even finding ways around the one apartment restriction in big cities. Can't buy in Beijing? Just cross the city line and the boom is in full swing. Flyers advertising new projects, potential buyers crowding buses to see new construction and new owners line up to register their new apts. Like us in our bubble, they just don't believe the good times will ever end.

 


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Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:07 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

hugh hendry covered this shit 3 years ago-fucking MSM. repeating now- the Chinese are notorious for terrible investing, getting screwed by whitey and fumbling chances to be a world superpower throughout history.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:10 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Chinese citizenism housing bubble is blobbing up.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:52 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Humanity is going to get their asses spanked. Spanked hard. Really hard. In fact so hard that I wonder if most of humanity is going to survive this coming spanking. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:57 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Potemkin Village Idiots

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

The inhabitants of these ghost cities can drink their 'ghost coke' from yesterday's post

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-03/china-clean-air-sells-080-breath

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:29 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

 "There's never been a better time to buy, build, invest in, flip, hold, or do anything else (especially including going deep into debt or expending/exhausting savings) in order to come into ownership of any residential real estate in China."

-- Co-Statement by China's Versions of The National Association of Realtors,  The National Association of Home Builders, The National Association of Mortgage Brokers, and your local assessor's office.

 

*And Remember that 2007 through 2010 U.S. new home "sales" were only revised downward by a mere 3 million units!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:01 | Link to Comment vato poco
vato poco's picture

But....but...Confucius! Inscrutable! Sun Tzu! Blind Master Po!! You're saying that was just all bullshit, & chinese are no different than anyone else?!?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:25 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If people of even average intelligence are able to think objectively, they'll inevitably conclude that there are larger bubbles over a larger swath of the globe, representing credit/debt of historic, monumental, record scale (in real terms), that is the direct result of insane fractional reserve central bank monetary policies (as in plural central banks; the Fed, the ECB, the PBOC, BOJ, BOE, etc.).

It's all going to end in a global economic depression.

Some dare say that this has already begun.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:54 | Link to Comment Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

China policy:

"Better empty cities than dollars!"

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Induced Coma
Induced Coma's picture

I enjoy working with my hands and building things. I built my home, and have other buildings planned for my property. I could never do it for a living. Some of these videos of buildings/infrastructure that is unused and will go to waste makes me feel sad. When you see the sharp contrast of people with very little being forced to move, against the backdrop of ghost cities - it is depressing.

IC

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:16 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

what china is doing with housing, bernake is doing with the dollar.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:31 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Hey, at least when the Chinese spent $1 Billion to build Thames Town, lots of people got actual work out of it, rather than a bunch of economists and bankers circle jerking with $85 Billion each month. I wonder what the build quality is like; probably better than the 2007 developements here in the West. 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:24 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

actually what china is doing is being fueled by what the bernank is doing with the dollar.

Greenspan's bubble simply got exported.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:35 | Link to Comment MedTechEntrepreneur
MedTechEntrepreneur's picture

What Francis...cant blame this on the Joooo's?  Or can youuuuuu....

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:03 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I've moved on to the evil episcopalians...

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 13:35 | Link to Comment JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Fuckng dirty Episcopalians.....

 

Look at what they did to all them there monestaries; bastards!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:28 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I've got my gag ball ready

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:50 | Link to Comment bigyimmy007
bigyimmy007's picture

Yup instead of economics being utilized to drive us closer to sustianability, the "leaders" (that's being generous) have merely perverted it into quick profit and power gains, at the expense of mankind ever being able to grow and live in harmony with one another.

 

Nature is going to spank the shit out of humanity.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:38 | Link to Comment indygo55
indygo55's picture

I was waiting for her to ask if any of the properties were in foreclosure.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 09:19 | Link to Comment Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

that would require probing questions like that of a journalist, stahl isn't one.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:58 | Link to Comment TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

China only needs another 2 years to position itself for the wealth transfer...2 years tops!

I reckon they've moved even faster than that.

Those cities aren't meant to be empty, they're meant to house Chinese who bought Gold.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:15 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Looks more like they're meant to sop up excess capacity in everything from concrete to labor.    But they're sure to be tasty and nutritious when the music stops.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:45 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

BINGO!

No matter how clear the evidence that, to Westerners, the Han culture remains 'inscrutable,' the peanut gallery goes gaga over the perceived 'failures' of Chinese policy...thereby failing, as ever, to understand the masterstroke behind the apparent cock-up...

millenia of philosophic distillations of the lessons of Sun Tzu and other strategists have granted the current crop of post-soviet experiment Chinese leaders the luxury of countering the apparent contradictions of capitalism\socialism with pragmatic applications of common sense...something long gone missing from political handbooks in the formerly 'first' world...

That entire cities, and dense infrastructures have been built up via the private capital of a citizenry who voluntarily fulfill the dictates of the leadership's domestic policy is lost upon the the scoffers who continue to believe that their own brand of volunteered slavery to the crony capitalism of a statist behemoth disguised as 'democracy' grants them a superior status to the eastern prole...

 

Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate. Sun Tzu....A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves Lao Tzu
like the fate of their wealth, which drop by drop finds it's way east, the reality of the sophisticated opponent they face is lost upon the guffawing gaggle of CampFema pre-registrants...whose only apparent recourse, when faced with the choice of waking up or getting buried, is to hit that down button with a satisfying thump!   Too funny .

 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:21 | Link to Comment TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Well that was....Joyful.

And you are correct; so many Westerners rejoice at the Eastern slip-ups, but are they?! They will comprise the Soup Kitchen line anyway.

Funny, you don't hear about PBoC leasing out any Gold, but we won't look at such realities.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:29 | Link to Comment TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Oh, just to make reality crystal clear; I observed 11 new Dr Interns at a Hospital today, 10 of which were...*drum roll*... Chinese!

They don't think about themselves, they think about their Grandkids. Grandparents are therefore respected. Westerners put Grandparents in Homes. We sow our own seeds!

How do you like them Apples?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 10:23 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Taking a walk through any public park in China, from dawn to dusk, gives one all the perspective needed to size up the coming futures of "east" versus "west"...

oldsters flying kites, dance steppin, doin tai chi, sword play, toddlers wandering in n out, all together, all being happy jus bein happy, sounds kinda sappy, but the difference between "us' n "them" is all in the little stuff...the little joys of bein alive, together, as a people, in a shared domain.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 12:26 | Link to Comment vato poco
vato poco's picture

All wearin goggles & masks because of the incredible pollution, (unable to see the difference between dawn or dusk or high noon), all drinkin from the same river the chem factories dump their waste & overflow in 2 miles upstream, all eatin 'farmed' fish raised on human/animal feces and tons of hormones living in tanks that are never EVER cleaned out, all brushin their teeth with the popular 'antifreeze' brand toothpaste......together, as people, in a shared domain. LOL

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment Apocalicious
Apocalicious's picture

And yet somehow they all manage to be fit and trim living actively into their 80s and 90s with virtually $0 spend on healthcare, while our fat asses blow through $8 K per (just in insurance premos) and die of cancer or heart-attack in our 60s from all our processed, hormone and preservative injected crap and sodium/sugar heavy junk food. That'll show em!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Your thoughtful and unbiased analysis makes it clear that you've conducted a thorough 'boots on the ground' investigation of the place, and therefore have precedence as an 'informed observer'

... in much the same way one can take our Aanonymous correspondent to be an insightful portrayer of America as it really is.

China's a very big country, with a variety of problems similar in scope and scale to other developed and developing countries. Someday I hope you'll have the opportunity to visit it, and draw some conclusions of your own based on something other than a pastiche of tired cliches.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

elegant and truthful

Wed, 03/06/2013 - 06:39 | Link to Comment vato poco
vato poco's picture

Awww, that was just *sweet*. Say, apropos of nothing, can you give us a translation for the cheerful nickname the plucky, happy-go-lucky chinese bestow uopn westerners in china? How you say it...."Gweilo"?? See, MY phrasebook says it means "foreign devil" or "barbarian", depending on context & tone, but that can't be right, can it?? 'Cause that's not friendly at ALL!!

Or is that too merely a tired cliche?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 00:07 | Link to Comment JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

Actually, it works out something more like

"Big-nosed, white-boned foreign demon" at the end of the day...

but don't lose too much sleep over it bud...it's more of an endearment, like when the chili-chokers  call us guero down in Browntown...

besides, methinks you might have bigger things to worry bout!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"shared domain" is something you can enjoy in continental europe and even in small, rural places in the UK - I can't live too long in any place that does not have this element of life

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 08:03 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves Lao Tzu"

Hey, didn't Obama say the same thing?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:19 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hilarious hearing the CBS libturds fawn over the Chinese communist govt.  They think the Chinese communists really know how to run a country with slave labor, theft of land etc.

I really cracked up when Lesley Stahl said the USA had a market based economy.  LOL!  What a joke.    F TV, F Hollywood!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:56 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

paging AnAnalogous Anus.......please pick up the red courtesy phone

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:39 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

It is probably tied up reading, Over population in Chinese citizenism, authored by: We Dong Em Yung

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:22 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Most people in China live on about less than $2 a day.

CBS, the rest of f***king TV and Hollywood are 100% behind Amerika's Mugabe to make sure Americans are "living" on #2 a day soon.

Edit:  LOL!  I meant to say $2 a day but put living on #2 by mistkae as in #1 you take a piss and #2 is when you take a dump.  I bet McDonalds and others may approve it along with the fake tuna that makes you bleed out of your arsehole.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 08:46 | Link to Comment Rip van Wrinkle
Rip van Wrinkle's picture

Most people in China the US/UK/Spain/Italy/Greece live on about less than $2 a day.

 

Coming to a country near you.....soon.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:28 | Link to Comment Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Dear friends in China....STOP BUYING REAL ESTATE!!!

Buy Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium, Copper, Nickel, and Rhodium.   But STOP BUYING REAL ESTATE!

Please send this to all your Chinese friends!!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 19:06 | Link to Comment RobertC
RobertC's picture

...and why would I do that?  They are increasing defense spending as we are decreasing...let them have a wet dream are 2 before the collapse...

 "China plans to raise its defense budget by 10.7 percent to 720.2 billion yuan (114.3 billion U.S. dollars) in 2013."

https://twitter.com/XHNews/status/308728684746010624

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:03 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"unlike our market driven economy".....

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:07 | Link to Comment deepsouthdoug
deepsouthdoug's picture

They're just stupid Commies with money.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:13 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

who-the Clintons?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:00 | Link to Comment willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

No, he means Bush 2.  Wait, he was a decider.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

CBS reporters?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:45 | Link to Comment RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

The next 'Great Move Foward' will be when the communists force the poor workers at gun point from the farms and factories into empty high-rise apartments and cafes. These 'new-metro' lifestyles will be promoted with heavy programming in TV and Cinema. Those who will not move will be locked out of the cities and left to die in the fields.

In about 3 generations the new-metro's will be obese, stupid and loaded with debt, in which the communists will engage the third 'Great Move Foward' and at gun point, force the people able to work out of their high-rise homes and into the robot repair & programming gulags. Those who haven't got the brains to program and repair the robot factories will be locked up and left to die in their high-rise apartments.

By this stage, China's population will be in line with Agenda 21 guide lines.

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:05 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

It's all make-believe -- non-existent supply for non existent demand.

Especially with China's population growth crashing... Indians on the other hand could surely use those cities...not to mention Japanese living too close to Fukushima... or North Koreans when the NKorean regime collapses.

There's plenty of FOREIGN demand for these empty cities... domestic demand? Not so much.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:22 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Perhaps a pH Dee from Princeton will figure out a way to export whole cities. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:31 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

They just need to do flying cities.

Or maybe China could still employ those construction crews... and go build those cities IN OTHER COUNTRIES WHO NEED THEM?? Send chinese workers to India and NKorea to build modern cities, it would calm down tensions and make money for China.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:19 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"Perhaps a pH Dee from Princeton will figure out a way to export whole cities."

There's an app for that bundled with the new ipad. Check out myvirtualchineseapartment.com.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:29 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

There's plenty of <future> FOREIGN demand for these empty cities.

now that's thinking like the chinese

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:38 | Link to Comment MedTechEntrepreneur
MedTechEntrepreneur's picture

Yeah, if they want to create some demand...send them Mexicans..about 30 million of them should do the trick.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Even ants don't build new nests until they outgrow the one they are in...

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:11 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Ants don't have realtors or banks.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:17 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   One doesn't need a Realtor or Bank to be a be prudent investor.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:21 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

No disagreement there. Realtors and banks have become pretty much squanderer-oriented.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:10 | Link to Comment 45north
45north's picture

squanderer-oriented did you just make that up?  I mean all by yourself?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:20 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

to borrow a phrase, if I ever need a brain transplant I will want it to come from a realtor, that way I will know it will never have been used.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

I overpaid for a used anthill years ago. Never again, never again !!!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:10 | Link to Comment deepsouthdoug
deepsouthdoug's picture

And they will all have to be torn down, because there's no doubt they used Chinese drywall!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Bush's fault.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

The problem with the housing bubble in China is that the government is trying to keep the bubble from bursting although the government appears the other way. The local government controls the supply of land and the central government controls the supply of money. Sure it's a bubble but it can sustain longer than anybody can imagine.

Ordinary people in Hong Kong can hardly afford the apartments either but the housing bubble in Hong Kong has been there for tens of years. 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Is it really a bubble? I mean, are the properties purchased with leverage / debt? If they are actually buying the houses with real savings, and not NINJA loans, then it isn't quite the same.

EDIT: nevermind, it seems like the mortgage industry was pretty much started in 1998 and grew at nearly 60% per year. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:14 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I would love to stand in the middle of that mall [Entry Area] in the video, and yell "Fuck You Bernanke"  at the top of my lungs.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:20 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

LOL, I just visualized that.

Hilarious

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:35 | Link to Comment eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

I always wonder why so many ZHers have such homosexual love for Bernanke. In my humble opinion, Yellen is a slightly better choice than Bernanke.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:08 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Homosexual love for Bernanke?  I have no idea what that means, but it certainly made me laugh.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:19 | Link to Comment eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Because he said "Fuck you, Bernanke." According to the Oxford English Dictionary, "fuck" means "have sex with". Ergo anybody who wants to fuck Bernanke must be an undisputed homosexual. ;-)

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 05:53 | Link to Comment StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Or female.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:42 | Link to Comment Ion the Ion
Ion the Ion's picture

women don't read zh, silly.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:59 | Link to Comment Valkyre
Valkyre's picture

that is not entirely accurate.....  I simply prefer reading and processing the information/articles, and laughing at the comments on ZH as opposed to yapping.

 

Signed,

A woman

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 10:15 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

This aptly describes Steve LIESman

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:17 | Link to Comment willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

True. I have homosexual love for Timah G. I would love to be in a room with him for 30 min stark naked.

Just once.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:49 | Link to Comment Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Is a wire brush considered homosexual love? If so, don't forget to bring the turpentine for degreaser lube.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:55 | Link to Comment TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

How about a video project where lots of people yell "Fuck You Bernanke" and someone strings it all together?

I think an hour running time would be enough :)

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:17 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Yeah well, we've got some lumber in our own eye right now.........

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:18 | Link to Comment mirac
mirac's picture

If there is a coastal event, or WWIII they will have new cities to move into?  And these people are supposed to be the next superpower of the world?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

no-but the MIC needs a new boogey man to justify huge military outlays so the Chinese fit the bill

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:18 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Open some casinos in each one and there will be more chinks than you can imagine. Did I say that?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Conman
Conman's picture

Open a mcdonalds or starbucks in detroit to get beer swilling fat americans back in? same logic?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:34 | Link to Comment wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Meanwhile, some major cities here in America aren't exactly anything to be proud of...

10 most dangerous cities in America and who runs them... (Forbes)

10th- Buffalo, N.Y. (Democrat Mayor )

9th- Cleveland (Democrat Mayor )

8th- Stockton, Calif. (Democrat Mayor)

7th- Baltimore (Democrat Mayor)

6th- Atlanta (Democrat Mayor)

5th- Birmingham, Ala (Democrat Mayor)

4th- Memphis, Tenn (Democrat mayor)

3rd- Oakland, Calif (Democrat Mayor)

2nd- St. Louis (Democrat mayor)

1st- Detroit (Democrat mayor)

Any obvious pattern? "No, absolutely not! Nothing to see here... move along!"

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:37 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Democrats live in town. Republicans live in the burbs.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 09:33 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

Well, as soon as those cities confiscate all legally owned weapons , they will become much safer !!!

/mfs + my best mdb impression

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 09:39 | Link to Comment Falconsixone
Falconsixone's picture

These citys need defense rifles with 30 round clips to do some mayoral duties.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment marathonman
marathonman's picture

I would guess most major US cities have Democrat mayors.  Even here in Texas, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin - Democrats.  Everybody wants something that everybody else pays for and nobody does that like Democrats.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

wee-weed up asked:

Any obvious pattern?

They're run by people who've bought politicians. That's how it's done in the US, from the municipal to the national level.

Oh, were you trying to imply a difference between Democrats and Republicans? There is none.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:21 | Link to Comment random shots
random shots's picture

Watch out world when China has to redeem its investments in foreign debt to cover the shortfall at home. 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:38 | Link to Comment Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Not likely.

1.)  It's not like they are going to pay their own people in US Dollars or Euros. That is the ultimate admission of national political failure...ain't gonna happen.  Heads will roll first (literally).

2.) The government in China is so corrupt at all levels, that those investments will be grabbed by the minority of fleeing Commie Party elites and ownership claims thereto will -amazingly- surface on the U.S. and Canadian West Coasts

3.) Some of the foreign investments are already being transferred into precious metals...which ultimately end up in the hands of Commie party elites on their way out of China

4.)  Civil war looks to be on the Chinese horizon...calling the timing of that is real the tricky part, though

 

 

 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:48 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

They just need EBT cards, so the 750 million people living on $2 per day can afford to rent some of those apartments; then charge property taxes and income tax to get the money back from the landowners. When life gives you ghost cities, make public housing.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 08:14 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Looking back on the 1949 revolution (civil war?), Chiang-Kai-Shek and his buddies absconded to Taiwan with the national treasury's gold.  There they built a new country.

I wonder if any current Chinese are thinking of recreating that formula.  At least about the gold.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Good commentary on Human Nature.

The shallowness will consume us, all the way 'til we try to snuff it out, once and for all.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

If the Cinese like empty cities so much , maybe we can sell them Detroit.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:32 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

LOL

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:41 | Link to Comment Conman
Conman's picture

There's a difference between an empty city and a decaying city with inhabitants.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Not the way China builds cities ...

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment fourchan
fourchan's picture

ship all the residents of detroit there, they will have those new buildings unusable in 10 years, and they already are socialist/slaves. win win.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 03:45 | Link to Comment Manic by Proxy
Manic by Proxy's picture

They already own it. How else do you explain shitty  American cars? Oh, wait.......

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:53 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

1) ZH-STREAM Media is far more superior than Main Stream Media.

 

 

2) There has NEVER EVER been a chinese miracle, never.

The "miracle" consists of moving by force 200 million villagers out of susbsistence farming into subsistence factory labor.


What is the the miracle here? FROM SUBSISTENCE INTO SUBSISTENCE?


 

At least when farming, they were capable of producing their food. Now in subsistence factory labor, the food chain has to provide it. And when there is food inflation....we have 'vacations on Tien an Men square'.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:39 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

The key words there is moving by force.   They just come in and take the farmers land, beat the shit out of them and take it. CBS and the rest of USA shit TV and Hollywood loves the Chi Coms.

Here is the question:

1. How long before these finished cities start decaying badly.  Like skyscrapers.

2. How long before that one city with half finished buildings falls apart?  As Hugh Hendry point out in one of his videos - "that big builiding is someone's $500 million liability."   The unfinished city with no windows and exposed skyscrapers - how long before those buildings fall apart?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:38 | Link to Comment The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

How long before that one city with half finished buildings falls apart?

Not long - most Chinese buildings are lighter on cement and heavier on sand, with the building inspectors paid off so contractors can eek out a bit more profit. When the buildings fall over the contractors will have long moved to Amerika with their profits and balls intact.

How Long? About 5-10 years. It's gonna make for some great YouTube videos.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:52 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

They are made of concrete, as long as the right amt of lime was added to the mix, they could outlast even you. Or about 1000 years.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 08:18 | Link to Comment hyperbole2000
hyperbole2000's picture

C02 attacks concrete. In 100 years the 2 inches of concrete over the reinforcing steel will spall without maintenance. Once the steel is exposed to the elements the lifespan can be measured in decades.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Somehow the gutting of huge swaths of manufacturing in the US, its transference to china's land and subsequent shipment of 'products' back to the US at significantly increased profit margin, and wanton money printing in China for construction projects ... is all some kind of economic 'miracle'.  The crass stupidity of what passes for media today is sickening.

I don't believe that the peasants working in the sweatshops of foxconn or whereever have gold or silver to buy these places if/when the bubble pops, I'm not sure they would even want the units much less going into debt to buy them even at 2x annual earnings.  You have to have some semblance of long term job stability and some measure of discretionary income and globalism doesn't offer that to anyone in the labor class and never has: witness- foreclosure rates in US

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:27 | Link to Comment web bot
web bot's picture

HOLY #UCK... This is sureal.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

typical mainstream media. waits for the statute of limitations to expire before making it 'breaking news'

actually when this bubble pops properly itll have all the makings of a 'great leap forward' , only with real estate instead of pig iron

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

Sickening. And we keep buying stocks. what the fuck?

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:46 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

The market would not be up if we the sheeple were not buying en masse.  Unfortunately most are buying unwittingly with their 401K plans who likely have dubious goals and/or are run by idiot Keynesian managers at best.

Wait until it collapses again, many can not wait another 5-10 years for any kind of "recovery" to occur and will be foreced to use what's left for retirement, assuming of course the Red Bureauocracy doesn't take the lion's share of what's left after that....for your own good of course.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:39 | Link to Comment moskov
moskov's picture

American Mainstream Media may really need to look into ghetto shithole like Detroit to get some reality check. No! US does not have market economy anymore, it's all debt bubble, loan bubble, bond bubble, derivative bubble, dollar bubble, dotcom bubble.....I wish US only had a housing bubble at least you can house people in the real world. China is the creditor, and if China fails, it will drag the US into the sinkhole just like that Florida man.

Keep spreading up bullshit about US demographics are superior than anybody else and China. NO, US population in large is fat and lazy, overtaken by the welfare depending minorities. They would not become the labour force to revive US industry, but massive drag.

US is done. China is up. Try to ask CBS dare to investigate the disastrous crime done by the FED on national Telly. Then I would give any credit about US shitizenship.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:33 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

what and risk getting kicked out of the circle jerk that constitutes the WH press corp in DC? you see-there is alot of $ to be made(brian williams NBC-$18 million per year) by being a big  big suck-ass media whore( in the case of Anderson Cooper I mean literally a felching suck-ass)

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Oooh, felching.

It makes its own gravy.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment marathonman
marathonman's picture

They interviewed Bernanke on 60 Minutes.  He lied and obfuscated on national TV and it all just faded into gray....

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Some of you may well be aware that the newest Sim City comes out tomorrow.  It is truly a "if you build it, they will come" type game.  I was a big fan as a kid and for a time desired to be an urban planner...until I realized that only liberals and communists desire to plan other people's lives.  Cities may be great for some, but count me out.  Going off on another tangent, isn't that the goal of UN agenda 21?  Fuck those jewkikecommie bastards.

But I won't be spending $60 for junk, and I don't have time to waste trying to finish school and apply for jobs in this economy.  Hope they'll take a vet with PTSD and anger issues who really wouldn't have them if his government wasn't so fucking stupid and full of Keynesians/Commies/Diversitiy Hires/Well Connected Asshats.  Why can't we just do things based on merit?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Merit....merit...I've heard of that concept.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:55 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Organized crime syndicates and merit are mutually exclusive.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:44 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Not really. You still have to have brains to actually run a syndicate.

But if you lack brains but look good on TV, you can be the face of the syndicate. Being the face still pays what looks like a lot of money to the rest of us.

It's vital to remember that the guys in charge are NOT the faces you see on TV or the cover of Time.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 08:26 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Having lived through the 1960s I saw enough of urban planning and "architecture" to realize it's inhumane intent.  It is clear that the designers of these things give very little weight to the idea that human beings will be occupying their creations.  They have other concerns.  The process itself substitutes the vision of a small group of people for the thoughts and needs of the much larger number of people who will actually have to live with the "concept".

Urban planning is anti-democratic at its core.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 08:54 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Urban planning is anti-democratic at its core."

see http://planning.org/

and try to find "The City's Wealth" about Berkley making things "fair."

If you do, please post a link.  Seems that the Ministry of Truth has preceeded us.

- Ned

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:26 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Couldn't find the paper, but the paper is largely about funding of housing and not urban design.

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

Post Corrapse Housing..

Juss wash..

Yoo see, white maan!!

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:44 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

Reeree?

Duble Pose foh edit?

 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Pemaquid
Pemaquid's picture

I wonder why they don't buy PM's?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:25 | Link to Comment chump666
chump666's picture

All this talk about China and investments.  They are the worst investors in history, got hyperinflation in the 1930's, had a peasant ecomomy for fifty years.  Then conned their poor citizens to join up ponzi growth schemes, polluted 90% of the country and created the biggest housing bubble in history.

Right now, the Chinese are buying up sh*tloads of USDs (too offset their crap currency) and supporting illegal FX black market/loan sharks to buy up empty prefabricated poorly built homes.  Their war mongering, commie goverment is dying to divert attention from their failed Keynesian mutation and start a war with Japan.

Shanghai market crash last session, down over 3%+, was a wake up call when China will finally implode. 

That's it

 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:53 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Well their "leaders" are evil thugs just like our leaders.  It is also all about manipulation using the media like Tv and Hollywood.  The poor Chinese probably get barraged to but more apts to speculate.  Just like the idiots in the USA watching all these house fixer uppers shows and crap.

F TV and F Hollywood and F the idiot sheep who watch it.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:16 | Link to Comment chump666
chump666's picture

I agree.

We have all been gamed. 

Mon, 03/04/2013 - 23:51 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

Americans put their wealth into paper investments.

 

China's middle class is putting their wealth into tangible assets such as PM's & houses.  They are very limited in what they can invest in.

 

At the end of the day I'd rather have tangible assets than a bunch of paper dollars, paper bonds, & paper stocks.  I have to believe China's longterm plan is to crash American's paper ponzi & they are preparing their citizens accordingly. 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:08 | Link to Comment haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

But you're missing something. On the recorrect, those millions of apartments and houses valued at 50x current income will be worth only 2x current income. The governement will come in, along with the most wealthy and redistribute those apartments to the people in a world who live off of $2 per day.  

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:54 | Link to Comment Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Private citizens cannot own real property in China.

Everybody gets a very long-term lease from the government for the real property and puts their "improvements" on the state-owned real property...which private citizens "own."

When the economic problems begin to ramp up in China, the government will seize it all and redistribute in an effort to maintain control. Saying it needs to be returned to "the people."  (for the benefit of certain connected people but at the expense of most of the people)

It's page 1 of the Communist playbook.

Ironically, it's all so Obama-esque.

History is a broken record...just keeps repeating.

 

 

 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:41 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"China's middle class is putting their wealth into tangible assets such as PM's & houses. They are very limited in what they can invest in. ... At the end of the day I'd rather have tangible assets than a bunch of paper dollars, paper bonds, & paper stocks."

And if the housing market becomes overpriced there are always tulip bulbs.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:58 | Link to Comment Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

Actually its a play book out of the British colonial governments playbook.   In Hong Kong property is not owned - it is leased for 99 years - and leases are generally renewed for small money when they expire

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:59 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Americans do not really own property either.  The county owns it.  Your only hope is to move to some out of the way place so you are bled less pay for govt unionized paper pushers pensions, pubic edukayshun and other shit.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:49 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Often, the problem in those less 'organized' places is Boss Hogg and Sheriff Roscoe.

What those Duke Boys didn't know was...

how to read and write. But they could drive like a pair of Hereford bulls.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:52 | Link to Comment MSimon
MSimon's picture

And if they crash their customers?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 04:14 | Link to Comment SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

-1 for using the words assets, PMs and Houses in the same sentence.  Houses are great "revenue" generators for the .gov.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:16 | Link to Comment Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

So the U.S and China economies are very similar after all, just one huge facade. One propped up by the fed and the other propped up by suckers who believe uninhabited real estate is actually worth something

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:58 | Link to Comment Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

You forgot Europe.  It's an even bigger example.

The socialist experiment bubble/ponzi scheme...everybody gets benefits immediately, nobody works, and next week they retire and collect a pension when fewer people "work" to pay even less for more free social services.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:52 | Link to Comment TomGa
TomGa's picture

SBS Dateline (Australia) documented the Zhengzhou story in March 2011. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E

 

On balance, 60 Minutes did a decent piece, but acted suprised that this has been ongoing. Just a few years late to the party.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

All the criticism of the Chinese for these "ghost cities" misses the point entirely: They built it; it is IN THEIR COUNTRY; and, thus, so what if there is deflation. They have put useless U.S. paper dollars to use to build real tangible goods that will always be there to serve the Chinese population--long after the U.S. dollar collapses. Brilliant. Bernanke is/has been attempting to emulate this strategy--without admitting it--but the game has already been won by the Chinese. 

BTW: The South Koreans have been busy building empty apartment complexes all over the country for about a decade now (I worked there for four years); structures made of steel and concrete (as opposed to the cardboard U.S. disposable housing) that will be comfortably housing the Korean People for centuries. 

Oh, but "buy gold", as that is what has always worked;) 

 

And good luck finding an assayist (that desperate people trust) every time you need to buy something--after the collapse. The Chinese make the Bernanke look like a toddler with his fingers up his nose.

 

 

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:39 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

i thought s korea had a ppulation bust similar to europe's? or do you believe human population growth can continue its explosive growth forever?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

You are kidding?  Please tell me you are kidding. Because otherwise...

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:08 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You won't need an assayist if your gold comes with a certificate... but you may well need one for your house - demand for house certification is on the rise (well, maybe not for US cardboard ones...).

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:31 | Link to Comment abgary1
abgary1's picture

What is worth less, fiat money or real estate in a vacant city?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:43 | Link to Comment HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

It actually depends on the materials and architecture; i.e., in the U.S., the average developed property would cost more to hold than worthless fiat currency; it China, Korea, and Japan the properties are durable and low maintenance...

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:54 | Link to Comment MSimon
MSimon's picture

Very high quality buildings according to the developer on 60M

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 01:37 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

"What is worth less, fiat money or real estate in a vacant city?"

What has the higher BTU content?

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:52 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Choose the gutted $100 house with the most trees and shrubbery.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 02:15 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Until you test the actual quality of the construction/location, maybe

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 00:45 | Link to Comment chump666
Tue, 03/05/2013 - 06:52 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Scary stories always come in threes.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!