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Druckenmiller: "When You Get This Kind Of Rigging, It Will End Badly"

Tyler Durden's picture


When even Home Depot's Ken Langone is questioning the reality of this rally (CEO of one of the best performing stocks since the Dow last traded here), you have to be a little concerned. However, it is Duquesne's Stanley Druckenmiller's point that with QE4EVA it is impossible to know when this will end but warns that "all the lobsters are in the pot" now as he notes that "if you print enough money, everything is subsidized - bonds, stocks, real estate." He dismisses the notion of any sell-off in bonds for the same reason as the Fed is buying $85 bn per month (75-80% all off Treasury issuance). The Fed has cancelled all market signals (whether these are to Congress or market participants) and just as we did in the 1970s, we will find out about all the mal-investments sooner or later. "This is a big, big gamble," he notes, "manipulating the most important price in all of free markets," that ends one of only two ways, a mal-investment bust (as we saw in 2007-8) or full debt monetization and "off we go into inflation."



"The Fed is printing a lot of money. They are forcing people into markets. You shouldn't be buying securities because you're forced to buy them by zero rates. you should buy them because you think they're great value. They're great value only relative to zero interest rates. they're not great value on an absolute basis."

"I don't know when it's going to end, but my guess is, it's going to end very badly; and it's going to end very badly because, again, when you get the biggest price in the world, interest rates, being manipulated you get a misallocation of resources and this is going to end in one of two ways - with a malinvestment bust which we got in '07-'08 (we didn't get inflation). We got a malinvestment bust because of the bubble that was created in housing. Or it could end with just monetizing the debt and off we go in inflation. So that's a very binary outcome. they're both bad."


"the thought that you can exit from wherever the balance sheet will be at that time, 4 trillion, wherever it is, in an orderly manner the chairman testified that will give the market plenty of warning, do you know what guys like me are going to do when they sell the first bond out of 4 trillion? and don't think that letting the bonds run off isn't selling. that debt has to be refinanced. if you do not -- if you just let all the bonds run off that is still 4 trillion in selling. and it's not till they actually sell the first one, it's till you get the whiff -- what do you think -- what do you think the markets are going to do when they figure out the exit. look what happened in qe-1 and qe-2 ended which is why i don't think this sever going to end."


"we know is that it's not a real market driven number? and we know the longer you keep it there, the greater the misallocation, and the greater the pain."


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Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:03 | 3301581 Lohn Jocke
Lohn Jocke's picture

Hey baby, If I were your central banker I would stimulate your private sector all day every day.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:08 | 3301611 true brain
true brain's picture

Nobody, not even banksters, can force you to do anything. if you disagree with them, disconnect from the system. Convert all your worth into gold, land, physical assets. And watch.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:12 | 3301636 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

The four-year chart of the S&P just looks fantasitc. This is a text book bull market. I've drawn a trendline along the lows of the chart, and 1510 is solid support. When you draw a linear projection line through the four-year chart, you can see it's going to 2000 by year end. No doubt about it. My advice: just keep buying.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:16 | 3301652 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

How does your 12 year chart against gold look?  When Gold tops, sell "the bubble".  When S&P tops, go all in.  LOL.


Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:21 | 3301683 tiger7905
tiger7905's picture

Great clip on Wealth Inequality in the US.



Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:29 | 3301718 flacon
flacon's picture

@tiger: From that video clip: "We certainly don't have to go all the way to soCIALISm to find something that is fair for hard working Americans".


Phew, I was worried it was another one of those leftist propaganda pieces. I am glad that we don't have to go ALL THE WAY to soCIALISm.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:34 | 3301754 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

So let me get this straight - since you all are investors, day traders, and what not, in the world of finance; know it alls and all - when we get a recovery, you are all scared of rates rising, and at that point you will all want to own dollars?  Cui bono?

If that is what you are worried about, well, there will be many more dollars in the market than before this "looming crisis", so if the dollar actually becomes the next great investment when the "party is over", then we will have printed that many more dollars and will all be rich.

Or maybe the firms that people invest in, the ones that issue equity, will be great investments because we will have recovered from a depression.  Maybe bonds will be great sources of revenue.  Maybe there is more to finance than doom and gloom!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:36 | 3301764 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

" when we get a recovery"

You think we are worried about getting a recovery? You have been on here a lot. Are you totally dense? You must be if that is what you think "we" are worried about.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:39 | 3301775 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Bernanke has stated he will use proper monetary policy until there is a recovery per employment, therefore, we will get a recovery.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:45 | 3301787 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Bernanke said he did not "buy the premise" of a housing bubble in 2006. I could go on and on but I hope you get the point.

So your base case is what Bernanke says will absolutely happen? You won some big award or something for using your big brain and this is your iron clad point of fact?

For real?

Come are yankin our crank. Or you are not the real PK. I thought you could do better than that.

edit - my total apologies. I did not realize you put "until" in italics. Anytime I see something in italics I know it to be completely true and I am powerless to argue otherwise.

damn italics!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:48 | 3301816 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

No, I am saying that Bernanke is saying what I wanted him to say for quite sometime - that we need to continue current monetary policy until UE comes down.  Now he is saying it so I agree that we are on the right track.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:50 | 3301830 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

So you agree with him because he agrees with you?


Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:20 | 3301921 redpill
redpill's picture

It's Drunkenmillertime!

Sort of tiring to listen to all these talking head types blab about the if instead of the when.  No shit it's going to end badly, anyone who has been paying attention understands that.  The question is WHEN and HOW.

Predicting a massive earthquake will eventually happen doesn't help anyone unless you know the location and timing.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:31 | 3301967 Dr Paul Krugman
Dr Paul Krugman's picture

Alright, I see the doomer brigade has shown up, and like cockroaches, are now swarming the place.  I have a headache from spending the last while trying to teach economics to hard headed, chest thumping, zombies; I think I'll go have a few sips of scotch, enjoy that my white colored walls aren't padded - like many of yours are - and begin my next article.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:32 | 3301978 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Enjoy your makers mark and white tuna.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:42 | 3302262 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "When You Get This Kind Of Rigging, It Will End Badly"


Translation: "I'm a jew & all the other 'market makers' are JEWS... Now that we've reached this point ~ it's BASICALLY "JEW vs. JEW"... [That status that francis_sawyer has correctly & properly identified as the point upon which 'ALL HILARITY ENSUES'... You may commence JUNKING the comment of f_s as we speak, but it will not change the reality]...

Please 'LIKE' my kinda of jewry [on Facebook]... 'JUNK' those evil episcopalians at will going forward...

I have zero in the way of investment advice... I used to [but it was all based on JOOBUX]... Now the tide has moved out & I'm trying my best to cover my gonads so that the public at large doesn't see my unsuntanned circumcised dick...

That's all...

Druckenmiller [the 'circumcised']...


Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:37 | 3302556 tango
tango's picture

Jesus Christ, how many times have I told you to take your meds on a regular basis?   Might want to call you doctor for a quick treatment.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 19:48 | 3302805 PhilB
PhilB's picture

I just get so excited when we get a celebrity drive-by shooting (mouth). Somebody has been debasing Nobel Lauraetes over the years. Did he say anything remotely of economic substance or was that another ad hominem rampage.

You can enjoy Paul Krugman sounding ridiculous yet again here:





Tue, 03/05/2013 - 20:10 | 3302889 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture


Druckenmiller may or may not be circumcised, that is not important. If you are suggesting he is jewish, well that would be negative.

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:32 | 3301980 redpill
redpill's picture

Break some windows first, have to keep the economy going!

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:59 | 3302327 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Druckenmiller says about QE it is the "biggest wealth transfer" calling it "trickle down monetary policy."  "Who gets rich from QE? People like me, people in the markets. You think it's doing anything for three year olds in Harlem?"

At 8:28

Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:01 | 3302106 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Hey PK, perhaps you missed these little factoids from an earlier post:

  • GDP Growth: Then +2.5%; Now +1.6%
  • Regular Gas Price: Then $2.75; Now $3.73
  • Americans Unemployed (in Labor Force): Then 6.7 million; Now 13.2 million
  • Americans On Food Stamps: Then 26.9 million; Now 47.69 million
  • Size of Fed's Balance Sheet: Then $0.89 trillion; Now $3.01 trillion
  • US Debt as a Percentage of GDP: Then ~38%; Now 74.2%
  • US Deficit (LTM): Then $97 billion; Now $975.6 billion
  • Total US Debt Oustanding: Then $9.008 trillion; Now $16.43 trillion
  • The point being - the average Joe isn't Feeling the Love in this "Recovery"! I might add, I hope you have your rent paid up on that cave in south America, because I have a feeling when this ends - the folks who are digging up grub worms for dinner are not going to be pleased - and you and your pals are going to have a lot of splainin to do. Maybe you and Ben can share a cave and write a book about what went wrong for future generations to learn from.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 21:02 | 3303071 Imminent Crucible
    Imminent Crucible's picture

    MDB: Bernanke has stated he will use proper monetary policy until there is a recovery per employment, therefore, we will get a recovery.

    I swear that I'm going to keep drinking shoe polish until my health improves, therefore my health will improve.

    What a moron.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:20 | 3302179 Bunga Bunga
    Bunga Bunga's picture

    You hate doomers on the Titanic, right?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:34 | 3302244 Kirk2NCC1701
    Kirk2NCC1701's picture

    Dear Dr. K,

    Since all things in an economy are based on matter and energy -- upon which sentient beings (like you) add 'value' -- you may want to write your next Meisterwerk along the lines of "Fundamental Monetary Units and Policy, based on Robust Energy and Matter in a Market Economy".  You'd dethrone Keynes himself.

    We in the Federation of Planets use Dilithium Crystals (energy) and Latinum (PM) for this purpose.  You may want to adapt this to be based "Gas" and "Platinum coins".

    Regards, JT Kirk.

    NB:  My remarks are not disrespectful, hurtful or abusive.  Some of the abusive bloggers, alas, only discredit the intellectual caliber of other bloggers and that of the site itself.  I use the Trekkie language and imagery as a vehicle for the tenor of my metaphor.  As such, it is meant to be thought-provoking, not emotion-provoking -- even if done in an ironic, tongue-in cheek or even exasperated manner.  As 'Captain Kirk' would do.  I therefore hope you will boldly go and explore, where no Keynesian has gone before.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:46 | 3302591 tango
    tango's picture

    Dr Krugman, thanks for attempting to "teach" us about the economy using your hero Ben Boy as an example.  It's almost gospel in the investment community - do exactly opposite of Ben Boy's pronouncement that are consistently wrong.  He mixes enumeration with innumeration - attempting the former and committing the latter.  Remmber, according to your hero - there was no housing problem, adjustable rate problem, credit problem, liquidity problem, derivative problem....need I go on?  As many are prone to do on this site, visit You Tube and type "Bernake wrong statements".  

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 21:18 | 3303130 Cui Bono
    Cui Bono's picture

    You rang Herr Doctor?
    I assume by your "next article" you mean of clothing- doing piece work in the garment district as you have finally decided to become a productive member of society... ooh fuck it.. its not that much fun to pretend its you....CB

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 23:40 | 3303639 hairball48
    hairball48's picture

    I know it's fight Club :) but that's a bit harsh on Drukenmiller.

    Nobody knows the answer to when and how.

    There are slopes around here where I know the snow on the mountain is going to slide...with virtual 100% certainty. However, I don't know, nobody knows what will trigger the slide....or when. 

    It's the same with the coming financial collapse. All of us here know the collapse is coming, but none of us know when.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:19 | 3301912 DaveyJones
    DaveyJones's picture

    continue a current criminal system to solve the many serious problems that system has created and continues to worsen

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:52 | 3302612 tango
    tango's picture

    There's a philosophical name for this - the hamster argument - whereby the cause of the problem is introduced as the solution.  The cure for massive debt is...masssive debt.   The cure for printing money that allows nations to spend like lunatics is to print more money to allow...... The answer to massive over-regulation is more regulation.  The answer to finite resources is faster use of those resources.     We could go on forever. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:27 | 3301953 VulpisVulpis
    VulpisVulpis's picture

    Brilliant troll is brilliant

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:31 | 3301973 Karl von Bahnhof
    Karl von Bahnhof's picture

    I am afraid you are real Krugman.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 21:21 | 3302169 Bunga Bunga
    Bunga Bunga's picture

    I am looking out of the window and see a whole ghost town being built for years, not in China, but here in the US. No renters or occupants, just boarded entry doors. I agree, that the outcome of central planning can be quite impressive for some time, but in the end the effort must bear some real fruits, otherwise people lose the belief like they did in the Soviet Union.


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:53 | 3301838 eclectic syncretist
    eclectic syncretist's picture

    Dr. Krugman, please replace your avatar with a picture of a hairy asshole, as it would certainly be an improvement, as well as appropriate.

    What the fuck???!!!  CNBC reports Citigroup says the US will soon be energy independent????!!!  ROTFLMFAO!|related|story|text|&par=yahoo


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:19 | 3301915 madcows
    madcows's picture

    Wow.  I read that too fast.  I thought it said Hillary's Asshole, and I wasn't sure if that meant Her actual backside, Bill Clinton, or Janet Napolitano.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:19 | 3301916 NotApplicable
    NotApplicable's picture

    What? You don't think the rest of the world won't turn off the tap and leave us to our own devices?

    For all I know, it's part of the destabilization plan (I know, they don't really need one, but they do enjoy profiting from "controlled collapses." Just ask Larry Silverstein).

    Wed, 03/06/2013 - 08:16 | 3304197 jerry_theking_lawler
    jerry_theking_lawler's picture

    its like reglion....would you rather believe in God and live a good life and their not be one, or choose not to believe and live a bad life and their actaully is a God??


    Same with investment principles.....would you rather sell most of your assets and purchase Gold, land, supplies (which have real value)....or sell all assets and invest in the stock market. if things are OK in the world, you will still have your Gold, land, supplies that have some value but you may miss out on huge returns in the stock market. but if the world turns very badly, and you have stocks that may skyrocket in nominal terms, but wouldn't buy you a box or oreos, you may miss out on actually living.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:43 | 3301788 fonzannoon
    fonzannoon's picture


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:45 | 3301803 Mountainview
    Mountainview's picture

    The Soviet-Union tried to create growth by central state intervention as well...

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:47 | 3301811 Temporalist
    Temporalist's picture

    LOL that is fucking classic.  Who wrote this post for you MDB?

    "proper monetary policy" too funny.

    "we will get a recover" great stuff.

    We'll eventually start mining asteroids too.


    Krugman's favorite song: "One Day My Prints Will Come"

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:51 | 3301834 Dr Paul Krugman
    Dr Paul Krugman's picture

    The fact that the guy above, mentioned by you, has 20 red marks for simply stating that he thinks stocks will go higher shows how upset you doomers are that the world has not collapsed into rubble.  Why don't you all go do something productive with your lives instead of criticising me and others who come up with solutions to our problems.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:57 | 3301850 fonzannoon
    fonzannoon's picture

     You are a legend in your own mind. You come on here because it bothers you that people on here know you are a fraud. You create problems. You have no solutions. We know it, and you know it.


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:00 | 3301858 Dr Paul Krugman
    Dr Paul Krugman's picture

    Yes, I am a legend in my own mind and that is why my blog is adding 20k new readers/month.  Yes, I am a fraud and that is how I won a Nobel.  Yes, I have no solutions and that is why my theories are taught all over the globe.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:06 | 3301878 fonzannoon
    fonzannoon's picture

    So you measure success in adding readers to your blog?

    Your theories are widely accepted as a joke. How many other sites do you go on and comment on? I am guessing none.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:14 | 3301901 Dr Paul Krugman
    Dr Paul Krugman's picture

    Isn't that how success is measured?  How many people read one's blog?  How should we measure success then?  How correct the blog has been?  If that is the case, considering that I have been writing that proper monetary policy would lower UE and help firms recover, then wouldn't I be a success - since UE has come down and markets have stabilized?

    My theories are widely accepted as a joke?  Go to any school in the world and ask an economics professor if I am a joke.  They will laugh, but only in your face.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:30 | 3301928 fonzannoon
    fonzannoon's picture

    LOL spare me the Liesman/Santelli labor force participation rate argument. 

    You think markets are stabilized? Really....You are preaching that garbage on here? Okay then....stop QE and let rates "normalize" and lets see how stabilized markets are.

    Your theories and by extension you are a joke because the punchline is take away QE and let's test your theories. You scared? I thought so.

    You may have a few clueless economics professors in your pocket but you spend your time here because we laugh in your face and have been proven right to do so time and again.

    I feel like the Bob's talking to this guy on the other side of the desk.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:23 | 3301934 Yen Cross
    Yen Cross's picture

      Enjoy Dr. Krugman< Perhaps you can share this with all the Keynesians on your blog.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:32 | 3302223 Eternal Complainer
    Eternal Complainer's picture


    That was great!
    Need to attach this to him( as a reminder) every time he comes around here and posts.

    Lol haha

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:29 | 3301963 Temporalist
    Temporalist's picture

    You are correct in one thing.  Porn must be right because everyone is doing it (especially the SEC)!

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:56 | 3302094 SofaPapa
    SofaPapa's picture

    "markets have stabilized".


    That statement right there is the nut of it.  A market that goes only one direction is not to my mind a stable market.  It is the explicit destruction of the measure of value.  How can you call a market stable in which no one really knows what anything is worth because the numbers in which they are measured have lost their meaning?  And just to be clear, this is not just the opinion of "our" side.  Apparently, Mr. Bernanke and you share it, too.  Why is QE continuing forever?  It is continuing forever because you see the economy being weak and so it needs more stimulus.  Therefore, you are admitting that the economy is weak.  Yet at the same time, you are cheering the moon shot that equity prices have become.  If prices are going through the roof at the same time that you admit the economy is weak, then those prices do not reflect growth; they reflect dollar debasement.  Explain this to me, please?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 21:09 | 3303099 Imminent Crucible
    Imminent Crucible's picture

    It's like this:

    When stocks go up like crazy, that's good.

    When stocks go down like crazy, that's volatility. We NEVER call the stock market "volatile" when it shoots up, no matter how insane the ramp.

    See how that works? It's the Mighty Fed Ratchet Market. It goes in only one direction, thanks to a phony buyer of stocks that spends $85 billion each month.  The only problem is, the phony buyer can never stop buying or the illusion collapses.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 22:19 | 3303300 Ballin D
    Ballin D's picture

    Dude. I hope you are a troll. My stomach is churning at the thought that you could be the actual Krugman. Even if you arent, its eye opening that the man probably agrees with everything youre writing. 

    Fuck you.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:22 | 3301931 DaveyJones
    DaveyJones's picture

    our military is all over the globe too

    what was your point?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:25 | 3301942 TheFourthStooge-ing
    TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

    Dr Paul Krugman said:

    Yes, I am a fraud and that is how I won a Nobel.

    That makes perfect sense, since the "Nobel" in economics isn't a real Nobel Prize.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:03 | 3302120 DRT RD
    DRT RD's picture

    Your defending again.  Remember Dr. Krugman, you never have to defend the truth.  The EGO defends because it feels inferior. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:19 | 3302178 WillyGroper
    WillyGroper's picture

     Commander in Thief won one also. For "Peace" no less. Or is that "Piece"?

    Wed, 03/06/2013 - 15:37 | 3305732 Lord Of Finance
    Lord Of Finance's picture

    Whatever you do "Dr. Paul Krugman", dont leave this site. This is better then seeing "you" on Charlie Rose.


    I have an idea. Why dont you post your responses to ZH posters on your blog. That way, all your fans can see how "you" are really not afraid to take on the opposition.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:59 | 3301856 camaro68ss
    camaro68ss's picture

    you got to be the real Krugman to be this dumb

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:59 | 3301857 Temporalist
    Temporalist's picture

    Stop wasting your time on ZH you should be out saving the world.  And I know the "solution" will be to print more when the next crash comes which isn't a solution it's a cop-out, an evasion of reality, a hypnotic, a tranquilizer, sedating the masses until reality crashes in on their heads and kleptocrats will say "it's capitalisms fault" or "we couldn't have seen this coming" or "let's invade those poor people who have resources because they are evil."

    I'd love to give the real Krugman a hug to see if when I squeeze him my expectations are fullfiled that shit gushes forth from his ears and out his nose.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:10 | 3301885 Dr Paul Krugman
    Dr Paul Krugman's picture

    If you live your life as a doomer, spouting "when the next crash comes" every 5 minutes, then you will be doomed to a life of sadness and depression; without hope and dreams of a future, life can be very hard; thus why you clutch your rocks, bang your head against a wall, and attack anyone who tries for a better tomorrow.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:24 | 3301935 Temporalist
    Temporalist's picture

    A better tomorrow is welcomed by everyone on ZeroHedge.  It is a world without charlatans and statist propagandists who want to practice their catastrophic theories on masses of people while gazing down on them to see what terror unfolds while they peel off hundreds to light their cigars and fuel their Rolls Royces.   It is a world of Rule of Law where fraud, manipulation, counterfeiting, deceit, and outright theft are prosecuted and perpetrators are incarcerated.  It's a world where there are rules and regulations that are actually regulated and the regulators and law makers aren't just stooges for monied interests.  I'd go on but I don't want to harm your delicate sensibilities.

    Funny that all the theories put into practice by modern eCONomists and there is still greater wealth disparity than ever and there are more people in slavery than at any time in human history (and that isn't including debt slavery).

    Wed, 03/06/2013 - 08:20 | 3304203 jerry_theking_lawler
    jerry_theking_lawler's picture

    obviously DPK has not read Atlus Shrugged....send me your address and i will ship my copy to you....

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:39 | 3301993 DaveyJones
    DaveyJones's picture

    addicts must first admit they have a problem

    Haven't you noticed? It's not just little angry guys on websites. The guy in this article sort of works in the real world. He's not always angry. There are lots of others all over the world with fancy experience and fancy degrees saying the same thing. Wouldn't you know, as it gets worse, as the lies get naked, and the laws disappear, more people worry. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:46 | 3302050 samcontrol
    samcontrol's picture

    Dr Paul , to be honest i am a foreignor ( not a good excuse) but i have no idea who you are.
    If you are a Nobel winner how can you be waisting time on here? Seriously...if you want good karma or something help me..
    I loaded up on miners in the last week and i am getting smashed,, was that a good idea in your print forever to bring down the eu point ? Sorry for the lame enlish, punctuation and the lot.

    can,t get phys so went with miners,, bad fucking idea.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:17 | 3302445 A. Magnus
    A. Magnus's picture

    "and attack anyone who tries for a better tomorrow"

    Really? Perpetuating a fraudulent financial system based on imaginary currency valuations tied to NOTHING in the real world is now marketed as 'trying for a better tomorrow?'

    The president guy in the White House may be calling you shortly on how to remake his image from a narcissistic busybody armed with nukes as a 'Trailblazer spearheading vertical integration'...

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:15 | 3301903 hapless
    hapless's picture

    "Bernanke has stated he will use proper monetary policy until there is a recovery per employment, therefore, we will get a recovery."

    Deal!!!  You heard it from the horse's ass, people - as long as we keep unemployment high, Uncle Ben will keep this kegger goin' for-EVAH. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:01 | 3302330 McMolotov
    McMolotov's picture

    Bernanke has stated he will use proper monetary policy until there is a recovery per employment, therefore, we will get a recovery.

    Perfectly logical. And I'll keep flapping my arms until I begin to fly, therefore, I will make myself fly at some point.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:05 | 3302370 asteroids
    asteroids's picture

    Never happen. Demographically impossible.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:39 | 3301772 slightlyskeptical
    slightlyskeptical's picture

    There won't be any more dollars in the market, as all this priniting is not feeding down and is only being used to offset losses that haven't been acknowledged yet. Not until those dollars make it into the hands of the 80% will I believe that we can emerge from this 5 year depression of goods produced.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:41 | 3301781 Dr Paul Krugman
    Dr Paul Krugman's picture

    The money is being given to firms who are making loans, and those loans are making their way into the economy.  The money is coming.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:57 | 3301849 Teamtc321
    Teamtc321's picture

    How many years have you been spewing "The money is coming"?

    Krugman, your antics are similar in theory to jacking off.  After awhile it just doesn't work. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:24 | 3301938 James_Cole
    James_Cole's picture

    Not until those dollars make it into the hands of the 80% will I believe that we can emerge from this 5 year depression of goods produced.

    That will never happen, there's one possible scenario - usa will lose petrodollar status, only a question of when. Once that happens the entire economy will disappear overnight. The only thing that underpins any of this is the petrodollar. USA still has the ability to blow up any country that questions the USD so things are probably good for a while.

    Might as well keep printing until the inevitable happens but don't be naive enough to think any of that 'wealth' is going to be passed down to Joe America. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:47 | 3302052 Chump
    Chump's picture

    No shit?  So on like, what kind of timeframe does it stop working?  A uh, friend was wondering.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:19 | 3301913 slightlyskeptical
    slightlyskeptical's picture

    Who exactly is getting these loans? I know it's not the 80% which are the only folks that can bring us out of this.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:19 | 3301914 l.kimbot
    l.kimbot's picture

    Don't quit your day job...oh wait...

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:36 | 3302009 Northeaster
    Northeaster's picture

    "The money is being given to firms who are making loans, and those loans are making their way into the economy.  The money is coming."

    Not according to The Fed:

    D.3 says Americans are unloading, while government/corps continues to pile on debt at ZIRP. The same Fed also states Americans real net income is continuing to fall (anyone below the 95%) for years:

    Nice try though, for a troll, you're very entertaining.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:48 | 3302058 samcontrol
    samcontrol's picture

    my bank is begging me to get a loan at 1%, i was wondering why.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:41 | 3302199 WhiteNight123129
    WhiteNight123129's picture


    Are you confusing money and credit Dr Paul Krugman? I think you are not Dr Paul Krugman.

    Dr Paul Krugman knows the difference between base money (inflate away) and credit. The only one agent able to use newly printed base money effectively is the Gov. They issue a ~bond~ to the Fed, and since it is never to be repaid it transmutes into base money. The Gov spends base money. Commercial credit levels are the same as before but nominal GDP expands, the inflate away cycle is kicked-started.

    You are an imposter and not Dr Paul Krugman. Dr Paul Krugman knows that the Keynesian solution does not involve commercial credit increase but the Gov going to the printing press getting new green bills and spending them.


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:39 | 3301773 Meat Hammer
    Meat Hammer's picture

    When we get a recovery?  The DOW is at an all-time high and we're still waiting on a recovery?  

    So then why is the DOW at an all-time high?  <---------Rhoetorical question.  

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:45 | 3301798 Dr Paul Krugman
    Dr Paul Krugman's picture

    It's nice that stock markets are up, and for those people who have money to invest, they might as well make proper investments into companies that produce returns, instead of sticking their pockets full of rocks.  Yet we will not have a full recovery until unemployment comes down; think of us as getting traction here and only beginning to move down the train track.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:46 | 3301810 fonzannoon
    fonzannoon's picture

    How many more years of high unemployment until you win a nobel prize for realizing that Bernanke can't print jobs?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:53 | 3301842 Meat Hammer
    Meat Hammer's picture

    You just proved all of us right in that last paragraph.  Go back and read your own words a few times.  Let me give you my favorite 2 portions.

    for those people who have money to invest

    think of us as getting traction here

    The key to dealing with a central-planner such as yourself is to pick apart your words to find your agenda.  

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:13 | 3301890 Fiat Burner
    Fiat Burner's picture

    Hey Krugman and other establishment shills, tell me this:  Why in the fuck do i have to speculate in ANY market just to avoid depreciation of my savings? 

    My god, the effort required just to keep what is rightfully mine is ridiculous.  Its like getting my wages in a bag with a hole in it: it is theft and it is immoral. The fact that people think this is OK is insane.


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:44 | 3302042 Karl von Bahnhof
    Karl von Bahnhof's picture

    I will not discuss with you unless you scan your Nobel prize and post it here.
    Otherwise I suspect you are some nasty troll trying to make folls frm ordinary tax paying citizens, bitch!

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:40 | 3302253 WhiteNight123129
    WhiteNight123129's picture


    Are you confusing money and credit Dr Paul Krugman? I think you are not Dr Paul Krugman.

    Dr Paul Krugman knows the difference between base money (inflate away) and credit. The only one agent able to use newly printed base money effectively is the Gov. They issue a ~bond~ to the Fed, and since it is never to be repaid it transmutes into base money. The Gov spends base money. Commercial credit levels are the same as before but nominal GDP expands, the inflate away cycle is kicked-started.

    You are an imposter and not Dr Paul Krugman. Dr Paul Krugman knows that the Keynesian solution does not involve commercial credit increase but the Gov going to the printing press getting new green bills and spending them.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:53 | 3302594 Kirk2NCC1701
    Kirk2NCC1701's picture

    I submit that it's possible and more productive to engage PK, w/o the low-brow comments and abusive language.  Gentle irony goes much further than crude remarks.

    For those who are smart enough and mature enough, that is.  Otherwise you (a) expose your true inferiority and insecurity, (b) you publicly confirm his claims about the 'cockroaches' on this site, and (c) thus undermine the true quality and value of this otherwise totally-awesome site. 

    Now get a grip and grow the fuck up.  And if you're a troll, here to discredit the site:  Piss Off!

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:19 | 3301917 dbTX
    dbTX's picture

    Dr.'s quiet possible you don't know your ass from wild honey.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:28 | 3301959 TheFourthStooge-ing
    TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

    I think it's highly likely that Dr Paul Krugman doesn't know shit from apple butter.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:33 | 3302531 cramers_tears
    cramers_tears's picture

    Krugman - where's the aliens?  I'm still waiting for word on the fuckin' aliens.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 22:01 | 3303295 chump666
    chump666's picture

    The concern is that despite the QE money pumps 4eva, it hasn't lifted indust/base metal's, Gold has been slammed in 2013, yet the DXY has been gently bid for over 6mths.  From a traders perspective, of course we have had supported equity markets, but we are getting disconnected trades all over the place.  The FX markets is actually revealing of a reality trip more so than than equities i.e CAD, AUD and risk on trades are lower.

    The inflation bubble trade is all equities and oil, we will have continued operational costs blowing out (mining), and costs cutting (note, banks scaling back staff) for most if not all companies, which would mean that USDs held, will be eating up by rising costs.  I am not confident companies sitting on USDs will be better off if we get a spike in the DXY.  Also, the spike in the DXY and USD forwards is all Asia and South America buying up $ to offset their inflation.  This can be seen on the black market trades from Argentina.   There something seriously wrong with China, this can be seen with base metals

    What seems to be occurring, is markets are pointing towards a deflationary collapse, with oil price/energy inflation staying sticky. Because of the looming war will be with Japan and China in 2013 (should also take Nat Gas prices up too.) and also year of screwed weather; harsh winters and extreme summers

    The future is as grim as you can imagine.  All we have to show for all the BS 'recovery' from the Fed and Obama's verbal spew is a huge speculative stock rally. 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:27 | 3301722 The Juggernaut
    The Juggernaut's picture

    MillionDollarBonus_: You say these things purposefully, don't you?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:05 | 3301876 flyingpigg
    flyingpigg's picture

    I've corrected MDB's text for you:

    The four-year chart of the S&P just looks like a fantasy. This is a text book bull-shit market. I've drawn a horizontal trendline along the low of the chart, and 666 is solid support for SPX. When you draw a projection line, you can see the Dow is going to 2000 by year end. No doubt about it. My advice: just keep buying gold.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:12 | 3301896 Chupacabra-322
    Chupacabra-322's picture

    “Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so.” -Bertrand Russell – The Impact of Science on Society – p62


    People are too stupid to resist at this point, and all of us that got through the indoctrination unscathed, will be rounded up and put in re-education camps.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:15 | 3301653 ParkAveFlasher
    ParkAveFlasher's picture

    MDB-style Martingale, bitchez!

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:18 | 3301666 RafterManFMJ
    RafterManFMJ's picture

    I don't know what you've said, but should I put my life savings in JGB?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:32 | 3301749 monkeyshine
    monkeyshine's picture

    The framus intersects with the ramistan approximately at the paternoster.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:36 | 3301765 Meat Hammer
    Meat Hammer's picture

    These words you say.......they do not mean what you think they mean.  

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:45 | 3301801 earleflorida
    earleflorida's picture

    i'm thinking in all my time here at ZH, that i've read 'MDB' comments a half dozen times at most, and what his 'MO' is, is really to take the flow out of the message!

    now, more than ever, i see how he [ this MDB cunt!] totally controls the discourse whilst simultaneously hijacking the thread which is utterly reprehensible. this is why he should be ignored and gratuitously 'thumb`dreddown'!!!  

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:51 | 3301831 hannah
    hannah's picture

    MillionDollarBonus_  - my chart is bigger and my trendline goes to infinity! buy buy buy

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:47 | 3302053 Stock Tips Inve...
    Stock Tips Investment's picture

    I agree with your comment. In technical terms, the SP-500 looks great. This is a very good opportunity to take full advantage of Wall Street. I think it is a good idea to wear criticizing the Fed and the government, betting the date that this house of cards fall. The stock market can go up and let those profits get on this bus.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:26 | 3302497 A. Magnus
    A. Magnus's picture

    A triple top is technically great? Especially on low trading volumes? Dude you have GOT to refer me to your must be smokin' the PRIMO stuff...

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 18:00 | 3302331 mayhem_korner
    mayhem_korner's picture



    The four year chart of the S&P looks just like the four year chart of the Fed balance sheet.  As Barney would say, "Imagine that!"

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:15 | 3301654 madcows
    madcows's picture

    Good luck with that.  They hold all the strings.  You don't think they can F-ck with the gold market?  Or Tax the land until you can't afford it?  Or confiscate you holdings?  The right to property is joke, just ask the tax man.  They own your property, you just rent it from them.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:22 | 3301693 true brain
    true brain's picture

    In the end, it's a matter of endurance. If you can hold out long enough, you'll see them on the guillotine. They can't control millions and millions of hungry people. In the end, at the big reset , hopefully there will be new rules.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:21 | 3301925 NotApplicable
    NotApplicable's picture

    They don't have to control them. All they have to do is to make you their enemy via good ole class envy.

    "Let's you and him fight" is the oldest trick in the book, after all.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:25 | 3301945 MagicHandPuppet
    MagicHandPuppet's picture

    I'd like to agree with you in principle as I'd like to personally see their heads roll.  However, this time, they are making contengency plans to make sure that never happens to them... only to "us":



    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:10 | 3301614 Eireann go Brach
    Eireann go Brach's picture

    The legacies of Obama and Bernanke will be written soon, history will not be kind to the bald one or the brown one!

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:12 | 3301641 TheFourthStooge-ing
    TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

    Probably as good a time as any to replace the word 'market' with 'welfare casino'.

    wget | sed 's/market/welfare casino/g'

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:14 | 3301647 Groundhog Day
    Groundhog Day's picture

    or the third outcome.....a 2007-2008 decline in stocks and real estate and inflation in oil and food.  The best of both worlds. Yay

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:48 | 3302067 rotagen
    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:05 | 3301584 hedgeless_horseman
    hedgeless_horseman's picture



    "if you print enough money, everything is subsidized - bonds, stocks, real estate."

    If you print enough money, everyone is taxed.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:05 | 3301593 Voice_Of_Unreason
    Voice_Of_Unreason's picture

    If you print enough money, you don't need to tax anyone.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:08 | 3301605 hedgeless_horseman
    hedgeless_horseman's picture



    The Inflation Tax...

    The third option is for the Federal Reserve to create credit to pay the bills Congress runs up. Nobody objects, and most Members hope that deficits don't really matter if the Fed accommodates Congress by creating more money. Besides, interest payments to the Fed are lower than they would be if funds were borrowed from the public, and payments can be delayed indefinitely merely by creating more credit out of thin air to buy U.S. treasuries. No need to soak the rich. A good deal, it seems, for everyone. But is it?


    The “tax” is paid when prices rise as the result of a depreciating dollar. Savers and those living on fixed or low incomes are hardest hit as the cost of living rises. Low- and middle-incomes families suffer the most as they struggle to make ends meet while wealth is literally transferred from the middle class to the wealthy. Government officials stick to their claim that no significant inflation exists, even as certain necessary costs are skyrocketing and incomes are stagnating.


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:31 | 3302217 WhiteNight123129
    WhiteNight123129's picture

    WHat can tilt the balance toward inflate away is the situation with Iran. Any detonation with Iran, would tilt the balance toward inflating.


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:09 | 3301618 kliguy38
    kliguy38's picture

    Looks like even Landruck can't bullshit this joke any further. Langone in particular has a partisan political axe to grind that is eating him alive. Benyanke is giving O a free meal ticket and Langone knows its going to make O a hero to the won't will end badly and when it does your Home depot/NYSE ponzi will vapor lock too.......

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:19 | 3301662 otto skorzeny
    otto skorzeny's picture

    well put-HD is a fucking ponzi scheme-they overbuilt and now can't afford to keep the utilities on. we'll see if their seasonal spring sales help them out-I'm guessing the peeps can't afford gas to go buy a shrub.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:27 | 3301720 ParkAveFlasher
    ParkAveFlasher's picture

    Why would Joe Peeps go out and buy a shrub to decorate his bitch landlady's property with? 

    Vicious cycles, dysfunctional feedback loops, capital misallocation, unemployment, looming inflation.  Mark your calendars!

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:30 | 3301733 Mrmojorisin515
    Mrmojorisin515's picture

    what isn't at the end of a ponzi finance empire?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 17:12 | 3302155 Larry Dallas
    Larry Dallas's picture

    Langone has some set of balls showing up on TV. Even better if they had Dick Grasso on, but Dick knows better.

    Remember when that that NYSE Board looked like a cast of characters from Saturday Night Live? Martha Stewart... my, my the American public is so dumb.  


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:31 | 3301735 Groundhog Day
    Groundhog Day's picture

    Can they print the money i have to send the IRS on april 15th instead of spending it on studies to see how long shrimp can go on a hampster wheel?  Then i would truely love the bernank

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 21:07 | 3303091 Kirk2NCC1701
    Kirk2NCC1701's picture

    Everyone is taxed proportionately only until the IRS enters the picture.  Then, as the growing tax codes proves, anyone with lobby-power and lobby-wealth can ensure 'preferential' taxation.

    Thus, those who increase wealth with Labor (Earned Income:  sweat & creativity) are taxed more, and those who increase it with Capital (Investment Income: fiat-money making more fiat-money) are taxed less.  As any aristocratic and true perpetual entitlement society would want:  Trans-generational entitlement (passed to heirs).  As opposed to limited entitlement (limited by work, health or death).

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:07 | 3301589 Waterfallsparkles
    Waterfallsparkles's picture

    Bernanke is playing Chicken with the market.

    Who will stop before going over the cliff?  Bernanke or the Traders.

    I predict that Bernanke will drive right over the Cliff and we all know what happens when the Car goes off the Cliff and Crashes.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:18 | 3301664 madcows
    madcows's picture

    That is their last bullet. 

    BTW, the Single Thai chicks are cute.  I wonder if Menendez has bought any?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:26 | 3301709 Momauguin Joe
    Momauguin Joe's picture

    Probably did, if one of them was a ladyboy.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:30 | 3301732 eclectic syncretist
    eclectic syncretist's picture

    Ain't gonna be any bank bailouts this time either.  Jamie Crimin Dimon will be singing


    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:43 | 3301792 Groundhog Day
    Groundhog Day's picture

    The Thelma and louise trade BITCHEZ

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:05 | 3301592 busted by the b...
    busted by the bailout's picture

    Today is Ben's finest hour.  And also his zenith. 

    What follows is, as they say, all downhill from here.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:06 | 3301594 khakuda
    khakuda's picture

    Perfectly stated. Welcome to purposeful asset misallocation bubble number 3 of the Greenspan/Bernanke era. Can't wait to see who they blame when this one ends in a Depression.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:33 | 3301753 eclectic syncretist
    eclectic syncretist's picture

    Geitner's already on the speaker circuit talking about how he helped save humanity (while destroying it's future).  His successor Lew should make about twice as much as him when he fucks the US Treasury up even more, still getting paid to bullshit lie about how he really did a great job.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:06 | 3301595 PheloniusRM
    PheloniusRM's picture

    Wealth Gap Effect (tm)

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:06 | 3301596 venturen
    venturen's picture

    But the FED has such a great record of controlling fraud and abuse. This is going to be the big one...sadly. If the Chinese play their cards is the end of the US as competition! 

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:07 | 3301599 Bicycle Repairman
    Bicycle Repairman's picture

    Hey Stanley, mail this back to 2010 when it was news on ZH.  Thanks for the validation, though.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:19 | 3301671 Water Is Wet
    Water Is Wet's picture

    +1, also interest rates are "teh most important price in teh history of ever" only if you are a paper-pushing fuck-ass.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:30 | 3301961 NotApplicable
    NotApplicable's picture

    Not at all. Interest rates are the price of time, everyone's most precious commodity. They naturally rise and fall along with general social stability. If it's lost any significance, it's due to the fact that money is no longer a "thing" (thus lacking the limits of natural scarcity).

    Rothbard laid out the entire system where ALL rates of return tend to approach the rate of interest, due to money being fungible, as well as the fact that debt and equity paper issued by a company are basically analogous, from a ROI perspective.

    So yes, in a real capitalist economy, interest rates are the most important price discovery mechanism, as they form the base of production determining all others.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:07 | 3301602 resurger
    resurger's picture

    Rudolf Von Havenstein just rolled once.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:09 | 3301604 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture

    "This is a big, big gamble," he notes, "manipulating the most important price in all of free markets," that ends one of only two ways, a mal-investment bust (as we saw in 2007-8) or full debt monetization and "off we go into inflation."

    How about both? First a killer (mal-investment) deflationary bust that knocks nearly everyone's socks off, then a massive inflationary pulse that ultimately steals all our remaining socks?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:11 | 3301637 cougar_w
    cougar_w's picture

    I think of it as deflation in the things you don't need, and inflation in the things you do need. The former destroys retail and increases unemployment, the latter devours discretionary household spending. All-in-all, economic contraction and a massive consumer implosion.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:20 | 3301673 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture

    As a child of the 50's and 60's who lived and worked thru the 70's and 80's I remember well something called 'stagflation'.

    Nice to see your pearly white fangs around here cougar_w. Are the girls up to anything new?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:59 | 3301853 cougar_w
    cougar_w's picture

    The twisted sisters are laying low. Well actually they are in a fine snit because I told them I was sick of dealing with their destroying everything and terrorizing everyone and setting all kinds of shit on fire all the time and would they leave me alone for a while? I might have ... well yelled at them too. It was ugly I admit it.

    I'm hoping they come back after I've put some other projects to bed.

    My only concern is that in the meantime Diamond might end up choosing a life of crime. We were watching "Catwoman" on Netflix a while back and she was snearing and making noise about how Halle Berry was doing it wrong. She says things like that, I pay attention.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:25 | 3301944 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture

    It can be very difficult cuddling up with a porcupine. Someone eventually gets pricked and that someone will be you. :)

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:17 | 3301659 Gloomy
    Gloomy's picture

    Or reverse it- a massive inflationary pulse, followed buy a deflationary bust as the Fed tries to put the fire out.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:24 | 3301692 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture


    Either way if the massive winds in the eye wall of the hurricane don't get you coming they will get you going.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:23 | 3301695 madcows
    madcows's picture

    Not a chance.  Inflation is trending below target numbers.  FED must bring it up by printing moar.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:23 | 3301694 Dewey Cheatum Howe
    Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

    I'm thinking we need a new market to invest in. A decentralized market along the lines of a bittorrent/tor type deal. No central manipulations. All stocks traded and valued in bitcoin for starters. It would be great for smaller companies and start ups initially. Real free market investment along with real free market investing. You got to start somewhere.... Will it work who knows but at some point when the casino is rigged beyond any sort of fair odds it is time for a new casino. At least this one you don't have to compete against the house.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:26 | 3301712 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture

    "At least this one you don't have to compete against the house."

    We are past the point where the house will consider non players as non threatening. If you don't play you will pay.

    Can you say "terrorist activity"?

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:45 | 3301805 Dewey Cheatum Howe
    Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

    They can't shut it down when it spread across the whole internet and anyone can get in and play. Decentralization is the way out of all this mess. For the market to work there are technical issues (like eliminating latency bias) to be worked out but the basics are already in place. The central banks can keep up their fiat for all the market cares as long there is someone willing to accept it as money and someone is willing to exchange back and forth between the digital currency like now with bitcoin. They can't manipulate the market except to accept that the digital currency is money and buy in and play the volume game :)

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 15:59 | 3301837 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture

    Wow! "They" have not even begun to really and truly manipulate. It just feels that way because we have no real vision of where "they" are going with all this.

    Clearly you (nor I) have ever lived in a Fascist/police state where most of the citizens live in constant fear of the government and where the government and its client corporations do as they please with impunity.

    The USA is not that far away from this 'state'. We might still think we are a 1st tier nation, but we are nearly down to second nation status on our way to a third world banana Republic. It might take another 20 or 30 years to do so but 2nd rate status here we come. Our military can only hold off the decline as long as the almighty dollar is accepted "everywhere you want to be".

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:03 | 3301867 Dewey Cheatum Howe
    Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

    I went to Sunday school as a kid........


    The decentralized market is internet based, the state can't do shit about it. Have they been able to shut down bittorrent or tor? They can try but there is always ways around these things.

    There are still a lot of questions to be sorted out for it to be successful but the idea certainly is worth looking into.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:22 | 3301911 Cognitive Dissonance
    Cognitive Dissonance's picture

    I do appreciate your spirit and drive and I don't wish to rain on your parade. It is people such as you that will lead the way out of this mess.

    I simply advise that you take into full consideration what you are proposing to do in the middle of a police state that is desperate to maintain the almighty dollar. While you might be correct that "they" can't shut you down, when the state turns terrorist on its own people, and this is coming to the USA, the vast majority of the people will refuse to participate in your 'subversive' idea simply because they will fear the state. Once the state makes a few bloody examples of people who do want to play in your alternative market most of the rest won't want to even take the chance.

    You and anyone else who participates will be branded a terrorist and an enemy of the state. That is when you will be more worried about your neighbor turning you in than the local blue shirt Nazis.

    Tue, 03/05/2013 - 16:33 | 3301964 Dewey Cheatum Howe
    Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

    You under estimate the morons in the matrix letting it get that far. You fuck with their wallets enough they will bring the whole fucker down faster than you can type your next post. What comes afterwards is the fun part.

    You miss the point a decentralized network based market and can be accessed worldwide.

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!