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Guest Post: Let Them Eat Trinkets
Originally posted at Coyote Blog,
Steven Rattner, investment banker and former member of the Obama Administration, is terrified that under a proposed law companies will be able to raise money without investment bankers.
Most troublesome is the legalization of “crowd funding,” the ability of start-up companies to raise capital from small investors on the Internet. While such lightly regulated capital raising has existed for years, until now, “investors” could receive only trinkets and other items of small value, similar to the way public television raises funds. As soon as regulations required to implement the new rules are completed, people who invest money in start-ups through sites similar to Kickstarter will be able to receive a financial interest in the soliciting company, much like buying shares on the stock exchange. But the enterprises soliciting these funds will hardly be big corporations like Wal-Mart or Exxon; they will be small start-ups with no track records.
This is absolutely, classically representative of the technocratic arrogance of the Obama Administration and the investment bankers that inhabit it. I have three quick thoughts:
- Rattner's concern for individual investors comes rather late. After all, he was the primary architect of the extra-legal screwing of GM and Chrysler secured creditors in favor of the UAW and other Obama supporters.
- God forbid investors get actual, you know, ownership in a company for their capital rather than just trinkets. This is so bizarrely patronizing that I had to read it twice just to make sure I wasn't missing something. But no, he is explicitly preferring that you and I get trinkets rather than ownership (ownership, apparently, to be reserved for millionaire insiders like himself).
- We have truly entered the corporate state when leftish opinion makers argue that large corporations like Exxon and Wal-Mart get preferential access to capital and that smaller startups that might compete with them be shut out of the market.
I would predict that over time, Internet entrepreneurs running such crowd-sourcing sites would develop reputation management and review tools for investors (similar to those at Amazon and eBay). Over time, it may be that these become far more trustworthy than current credit agency reports or investment bank recommendations. After all, which do you trust more -- a 5-star Amazon review with 35 responses or a Goldman Sachs "buy" recommendation on an IPO like Facebook or Groupon? Besides, it would take a very long time, like eternity, for fraud losses in a crowd-sourcing site to equal 1/100 of the investor losses to heavily regulated Bernie Madoff.
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Fuck you Rattner!
OT: Rand Paul is in the midst of an old school filibuster of John Brennan's nomination (and by proxy our drone policy), he's a couple hours in already.
http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/
Long Red Bull!
What? Unregulated capital formation?
Seal the exits, STAT!
“Steve Rattner’s my friend, of course I’d keep him on. Why would you not? If he can do anything to help, I value his advice and he’s a close friend of mine, and you stick by your friends.”
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/what-it-means-to-manage-the-mayor...
Ratner was re-gifting the trinkets for christmas and birthdays. He's pissed off that he now has to spend his own money to get said trinkets.
What is troublesome to RATner is perfectly logical and righteous to me.
Should I have my head examined?
The issue raised in this article really goes to the meat and potatoes of the struggle, does it not?
Privilege trying to hold on to same. "Same as it ever was...."
watching now...
"Everyone on 9/11 got medals"
^ a good point but missing the big picture. Amazes me how 10 years later they still talk about 9/11 without raising a single significant question
then it's off to a kosher lunch for Rand with an AIPAC handler
History in the making.
DON'T MISS IT!
Thanks for the update.
Drone is right.
Our drone policy?
Dunno 'bout you, but mine is fairly benign.
"Don't drone me, bro!"
Pelosi, Reid, SCHUMER, MAX BAUCUS...they'll defeat this....they and their families get a comfortable life through guaranteeing that the fucking parasites on Wall Street get their pound of flesh and pint of blood come hell or high water, bitchez.
Sometimes they even interbreed...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2188462/Chelsea-Clinton-husband-Marc-Mezvinsky-break-silence-marriage-break-rumours-children.html#ixzz2MmqLGXFKFollow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Why do Americans believe the American Empire does not have an aristocracy?
It gets worse... read on...
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2188462/Chelsea-Clinton-husband-Marc-Mezvinsky-break-silence-marriage-break-rumours-children.html#ixzz2MmuEERKU
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
As if four Bush family campaigns and three Clinton family campaigns for the Whitehouse weren't bad enough for the U.S. ...
Saw that one coming when Hil' dragged her onto podiums in the 2008 election. Told my wife: "Mark my words, she's being prepped & groomed for 8-12 years out, starting with a run at the Senate. After she gets married to an Elite member and has a kid or two. Of course the Bush/Arbusto clan will position Jeb for 2106, by which time the 'Bush' brand will have been refreshed and repackaged: I'm not like George. I'm a Moderate Republican...".
Some things never change.
lol, In 10 years there won't be a government elect in any central capacity in the US.
There are much bigger changes happening now that people are starting to acknowledge but it's far to late because of pussy footing.
"Chelsea Clinton has spoken publicly for for the first time about her marriage - giving her mother the 'grandchildren she has always wanted', and following her parents into politics."
Sexist, ego-centric little bitch. "Giving her MOTHER the grandchildren she has ALWAYS WANTED." What a pile of shit. She has a intern-fucking FATHER too! And what is it with getting pregnant in order to please your parents with another soul? I pity this poor baby. Can you imagine having HiLIARy Clinton as your grandmother?! "Give grandma a kiss!" UGH!
If I were the unlucky baby it would be awful enough to make me upchuck into my little mouth...
On that topic. http://www.manbottle.com/picture_library/future_republican
"Ms Clinton sparked a media storm when she married investment banker Mark Mezvinsky in 2010, in a lavish ceremony believed to have cost $3million."
Well, it's just as easy to fall in love with a rich boy as with a poor boy.
"But the enterprises soliciting these funds will hardly be big corporations like Wal-Mart or Exxon; they will be small start-ups with no track records." Yeah, heaven fucking help that the little guys get a chance to get into a garage size AAPL before that scumsucking douchebag Dimon gets a chance to get RICHER off it.
What happened to monopoly commissions ? Shouldn't big corporations be rather broken up and dismantled instead of being fed capital ? Wait, this was in pre-corporate-fascism days.
Bust the trusts, return entrepreneurship.
FUU,
If I might just add a small addition to your eloquent feeling,
Fuck You Rattner,
You rat bastard!
Fair enough.
Crowd sourcing is a great thing, Rattner should DIAF.
Crowd Funding: This is obviously run by Al Qaeda.
Drones taking off 3...2...1
Alternatives exist, make the fuckers irrelevant Bitcoin is just the start - subvert - marginalize - then destroy.
Watta Scumbag!!
Watto-Watt-ttto!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skv3wSIL5xI
"Crowd-funding will do fine."
Irony........just sold unsolicited shares of GM for a client that held the bonds.
"They're pretty much worthless" he said, "Just get 'em the fuck outta there"
Crowdsourcing might work for IPOs (it's not all that new - remember SAM?) but I doubt it will eat much into other I-bank areas like M&A and more complex corporate finance deals where reputation and personal relationships (trust) play a much bigger role.
So, that "reputation management and review tools" idea touches on a critical area and is a big "if".
Perhaps more important, related issues are: A) To what extend are companies more relectant to be public now (at least in the US) than they used to be and B) are public equity owners getting less and less control with their equity shares due to dual class structures and the like?
Trust! Funny. Banker = Trust and I scroll back to Fab Fab the French Douchebag, Cassano et. al. sheparding institutional clients through complex financial deals involving collatorilized mortgate obligations.
"Most troublesome is the legalization of “crowd funding,” the ability of start-up companies to raise capital from small investors on the Internet."
While crowd funding is a wonderful concept that can be used to empower and capitalize micro businesses and individuals it can (and I suspect will) be used to seek out and fleece the last of the greater fools.
Really? I see it as an expressway back to black markets.
Those perspectives are not mutually exclusive.
good point.
As I've gotten older, I'm realizing that it applies to almost every disagreement I see. Especially when many of the conclusions rely on particular worldviews that simply do not overlap.
sage advice... although, I figure by the time I have wrinkled old man balls, I'll be drinking whiskey, eating bacon, and have come full circle...
Black markets aren't public, anyone telling you a crowd sourced loan scheme is the black market would be wrong.
You know what a black market doesn't accept? Credit. Cash up front.
They can be public (or public enough) they just aren't by definition legal.
Not really. Actually cash is not commodity money so black market dealer taking paper dollars is exchanging for US govt credit... And you may take credit and still be illegal - so black market operation.
He's stretching the definition but so do you. Though I'd agree that it is somewhat similiar in the good side of the actual black market. It's reputation based and parties govern their own risks and it is outside of government control.
I think it is an avenue to eventuality.
Cash and Gold/Silver - CPL
It is not government's job to protect me from myself. The assumption that something is harmful unless government has a hand it is the root of many problems we now have.
government === harmful
cloud computing ... crowd funding ... who are the originators? has IPO mania back to the late 1990s written all over it.
let's do it all over again!
The big difference is there is much more transparency, I think. If people, with the best information available, decide to invest in something that is either too good to be true, or is massively over-valued, why is it your business if that is how they choose to use their money?
When the government regulators and big banks like Goldman Sachs are running an IPO, there is an air of legitamacy that clouds people's views. With crowd funding, most people can see it is the wild west. There is no comfort blanket of regulations. It is pure caveat emptor.
On a side note, I find the term "trinkets" a bit offensive. In most cases, you help finance the developement and scale production of a product (or service), and in exchange, you can get that product. While many of these products are video games or books, there are some bigger ticket items like 3D Printers that can cost thousands.
I agree with the whole caveat emptor thing. This could be a fantastic idea to get creative new small businesses up and running quickly.
Unfortunately Washington is the place where good ideas go to die therefore it will never happen. After all... fleecing sheeple has always been "God's Work"...
There is some of that of course, all systems have their parasites however you can choose your level of risk, you can spread your investment over many areas and people who build up their credit rating get cheaper loans than those who are unknown.
The really big plus? They aren't fractionally reserved. No boom, no bust.
Ooops, "The Cloud" accidentally killed the banks? That's market efficiency for you.
Note, there's a difference between crowd funding and peer to peer lending.
"it can (and I suspect will) be used to seek out and fleece the last of the greater fools"
I've heard many people say the same thing about ZH.
The Tribe has to get their cut
This is not exclusive to the Obama administration. Statist control freaks of both parties want to prohibit any action they do not specifically approve.
If they can bypass Wall Street, more power to them.
I love the idea personally. I can't stand the current neverending federal government conglomerates.
It's all about control via the US dollar-why do you think we've been toppling dictators that whisper they may be looking for an alternative currency backed by real commodities
Bio Chip comming soon...
http://homment.com/Withdrawing-cash-id-card
fuck me-it'll be here sooner than I thought. let me guess-the German version will easily sync up with a US,GB,Fr etc version- the mark of the beast will be a NWO issued digital currency card.
I use the Rural Bank of Intox. No cards, no fees, no snooping.
(BTW, Otto, I watched "Croupier" last night. Loved it! Thanks for the tip!)
Clive Owen is the last of a dying breed
You said it best: "Clive is the shit!"
observer007, Didn't I say so for a while? Most recently...
www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-02/why-jpmorgans-gold-vault-largest-world-located-next-new-york-fed
Sat, 03/02/2013 - 16:21 | 3294057 new Kirk2NCC1701
Excerpt:
There's one very, Very,VERY scary scenario where holding or not holding PM won't matter to the retail/private 'person' entity: If TPTB turn each and everyone one of us into walking, taking Bitcoins. Using RFID tech. Whether on a card, smart-phone or implant. Whichever is more 'convenient' at first, until the default become the implant.
Then EVERY transaction of any kind is digitally recorded, traceable and enforceable. Welcome to the self-fulfilled world of 666. Then they can impose fiat rules on gold buys & sells, and tax at will. They can and will come after you and your precious, and no amount of G&A will save you from their 'targeted' and systematic enforcement. So...
As Mark Grant suggested, I believe that one of this administration's goals is to have one politically controlled lender, the Fed, and several crony banks. A malignant deconstruction of the federal reserve system; but, fascists smash as socialists smile.
The Fed is merely the abstraction of the day. Once it's destroyed, they'll just come up with another.
Remember, the true goal is wealth transfer, while the vehicle doing the carrying is always replaceable.
I gave you an upvote for the "abstraction of the day" phrase. You also nailed wealth transfer as the goal.
The Central banks are going to be with us for awhile. At least until we get to the Planetary Ruler phase.
You mean like my favourite Scottish brewery has already done? (I guess UK securities laws must be more flexible)
http://www.brewdog.com/equityforpunks
http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/news/1099679/Equity-Punks-Brewdog-found...
Declared Interest: I am a (smaller) shareholder and (larger) beer drinker
I went to BrewDog in Edinburgh. Love that place! Even better that they created a beer called "Nanny State" as a symbolic protest against the attempts of the Parlament to ban one of their ales for being too strong!
I just went to their website.
Now that's a brewery!
How about some correct historical context? Mr. Rattner ran money and pled guilty to SEC Pay to Play Scheme accusations of screwing the pubic. I guess he feels it is better to hand money over the likes of him. What is sooooo saaaaaad is that the NY Times and the Financial Times are giving this fraudster a platform without a byline of how he screwed the public. This is especially poignant as here he is throwing rocks at the government for not protecting investors from fraudsters the likes of himself!
I think they call that a "win-win."
speaking of crowds where are all the bodies of hedge funds whose largest position is apple? At 425 I thought they would be littered all over the place.
Question is, how's Kevin Henry doing?
All Rattners are fucking scumbags.
http://knowledge.insead.edu/leadership-management/organisational-behavio...
There are more than one Rat-tners. LOL, Oh my, cut the banksters out? The leeching scumbag banksters will be pissed.
Trinkets!? How about motherfuckin nooses. Bankers get a special two for one deal. And that little puke Rattner gets to cut in line.
Raise money however the fuck you want, fuck them.
Samuel L Jackson voice:
So what, now they'll come for the crowdfunding? Those mooootherf*ckeeeers!
Every industry has their Shaman class, whose job it is to defend their rents on the value chain. In healthcare, it is the doctors, who have also convinced everybody that too much freedom in the hands of the great unwashed will kill everybody, therefore we must all pay them for access to anything else.
This Rattner-bastard is no different. Free markets are great for these guys until someone comes up with the idea that they really ought to be actually free. Then watch the spittle fly.
rattner...let them eat cheese
http://stevenrattner.com/bio/
It is beyond hypocrisy - crowd sourced funding was just fine to get Obama into office, but is to be avoided for support of anything acutally economically meaningful?
Fuck invetment bankers and their filthy free money.
Decentralized market and trading platform taking advantage of the same principles behind things like bittorrent and tor fucks all them as far regulation and central manipulation goes. It puts the free back in free markets. The market sets the rules not the other way around. You can do it without using real money in the network market. As long as the tax man can get their cut when you cash out (like taking your poker chips to the cash booth at a casino) the governments will go along with it. The banks and all these middleman parasites can go fuck themselves if they think they are going control how the game is played. Everyone aka (the network) is the market and the market is always everyone at all times. In a set up like that anyone can log in at any time and get started with as little as a single share. If you want to allow middlemen to manage your shares that is your perogative, the free market allows for it.
jew
correction.
a dirty jew
An investment firm founded by President Obama's former car czar, Steven Rattner, has agreed to pay $12 million to resolve allegations that it paid kickbacks to drum up business from New York's giant government pension fund.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/15/ex-car-czar-steve-rattner_n_539...
I also think crowd funding is a great idea. It is wonderfully libertarian type of idea in that it gives the power back to the individuals and limits the centralization stranglehold of control over the process. Like anything else a fool and his money are soon parted. If you aren't a fool, you'll do your due dilligence before investing when it comes down to crowd funding or any other investment. Fundamentals always come first, the investment vehicle is second. If the fundamentals don't check out no need to go to step 2.
We spend too much time trying deny fools from going extinct. It is a basic law of nature.
This is outrageous.
How are Central Bankers going to rule the world if they cannot completely control all aspects of fiscal policy?
This is why socialism never results in class mobility, is generally favored by the already rich, and loved by major corporations. It is also the tragic irony borne by those that both decry corporate welfare and money in politics yet crave government intervention. Regulations present entry barriers to future competitors and margin squeezers for mid-size competitors. Only those dominant in their industry can truly afford to comply and remain profitable while providing the same quality product/service. In such a system, subsidized food, housing, or other goodies from the government are both attempts to mask that you're poor and have no chance at a meaningful improvement in your living standard and to secure a political voting bloc.
The ONLY reason it "troubles" him and his ilk, is because it makes the control of money-flow less traceable and controllable by the Money Cartel.
Anything that upsets or troubles him/them, HAS to be a sign of a healthier, free-market economy.
In time -- and mark my words! -- these same MoFu's will actually embrace the idea -- meaning: They will have found a way to subvert the process via a series of (leveraged and pyramidal) M & A's. He's just stalling for time.
Fuckers!
If this new initiative interferes with the investment banks, look for a politically imposed "solution".
Rattner doesn't give a shit about whether or not people get scammed out of their money. He is afraid of losing control, losing HIS ability to scam people out of their money, losing HIS ability to scam startups out of their money. It's called disintermediation, DICK!
Guy's a fuckin' scammer. Read the HuffPo article linked above. Oh he's too well connected to actually get prosecuted in this day and age. Nah, he gets to pen articles in the NYT decrying how someone might somehow get ripped off by someone, sometime (other than by him).
BTW VCs suck! You put your life savings and years of your life into your business and the VC will fund you in exchange for the right to steal it from you at any time. Or purposefully crash it by ordering it to buy a bunch of shit it doesn't need from one of their other startups, to make their numbers look good. Fortunately Internet businesses don't necessarily need a lot of capital to get started, hence too much VC money chasing too many shitty deals. Google bootstrapped, profitable and proud.
Agree with many of the commenters -- if guys like Rattner don't like it, it's almost for sure a good idea.