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How Many Billions Of Drug-Laundered Money Does It Take To Shut Down A Bank?

Tyler Durden's picture


It's an odd question, we know - especially ahead of today's Stress Tests, but given today's testimony on assessing the bank secrecy act, apparent trouble-maker Elizabeth Warren pokes and prods (correctly we would add) at the surreality that exists between the Department of Justice, The Treasury, and the financial system. David Cohen, Tom Curry, and Jerome Powell dodged bullets and blame, "does that mean essentially we have a prosecution-free zone for large banks in America?" But Warren wasn't going to be fobbed off with useless banter as she pointed out, "if you're caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you're going to go to jail... for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night - I think that's fundamentally wrong." Indeed Ms. Warren.


Here is the transcript - note the Treasury officials never actually answer anything...

WARREN: ... As Senator Reed just pointed out, the United States government takes money laundering very seriously for a very good reason. ...


Now in December, HSBC admitted to money laundering. To laundering $881 million that we know of for Mexican and Colombian drug cartels. And also admitted to violating our sanctions for Iran, Libya, Cuba, Burma, the Sudan. And they didn't do it just one time. It wasn't like a mistake. They did it over and over and over again across a period of years. And they were caught doing it. Warned not to do it. And kept right on doing it. And evidently making profits doing it.


Now HSBC paid a fine, but no one individual went to trial. No individual was banned from banking. And there was no hearing to consider shutting down HSBC's activities here in the United States. So what I'd like is, you're the experts on money laundering. I'd like your opinion. What does it take? How many billions of dollars do you have to launder for drug lords and how many economic sanctions do you have to violate before someone will consider shutting down a financial institution like this? Mr. Cohen, can we start with you?


COHEN: Certainly Senator. No question the activity that was the subject of the enforcement action against HSBC was egregious...


WARREN: But let me just move you along here on the point Mr. Cohen. My question is, given that this is what you did, what does it take to get you to move towards even a hearing? Even considering shutting down banking operations for money laundering?


COHEN: Senator, we at the Treasury Department under OFAC and (ph) authority, we don't have the authority to shut down a financial institution...


WARREN: I understand that. I'm asking, in your opinion, you are the ones who are supposed to be the experts on money laundering. You work with everyone else, including the Department of Justice. In your opinion, how many billions of dollars do you have to launder for drug lords, before somebody says, we're shutting you down?




WARREN: ... And I'm asking, what does it take, even to say, here's where the line is. We're going to draw a line here, and if you cross that line, you're at risk for having your bank closed?




COHEN: But I'm not going to get into some hypothetical line drawing exercise.


WARREN: Well it's somewhere beyond $881 million of drug money.


COHEN: Well Senator the actions, and I'm sure the regulators can address this issue. The actions that we took in the HSBC case, we thought were appropriate in that instance.




WARREN: So what you're saying to me is you are responsible for these banks, and again, I read your testimony and you talk about the importance of vigorous enforcement here. But you're telling me you have no view when it's appropriate to consider even a hearing to raise the question of whether or not these banks should have to close their operations when they engage in money laundering for drug cartels?




WARREN: I understand that I'm over my time. And I'll just say here, if you're caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you're going to go to jail. If it happens repeatedly you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night. Every single individual associated with this. I just, I think that's fundamentally wrong.

(h/t Manal Mehta)


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Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:32 | 3310529 mjorden
mjorden's picture

 Elizabeth Warren, what can we do to help!?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:34 | 3310534 MrX
MrX's picture

drugs not hugs:

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:45 | 3310565 knukles
knukles's picture

Come on, everybody knows that Wells, bout a year or so ago, plead one of them nolo contendre thingamjigs for massive money laundering as have a bazillion other banks a bazillion times over.
If there's no one to launder the money, the cash just gets caught outside the system....
Very very bad.
And only through a bank can it be reintroduced back into the system, become cleansed....
It is a part and parcel of modern finance.
Especially in the days of the big arms and nacro businesses... in which the nations sponsoring their banks facilitate the trades for their own fucking host governments. 
We exist and regulate you so you will do this under the aegis of the regulators and we will let you keep a taste.

Think Mena
Think BCCI... which was an official fucking appendage of the US Government for shits sake, people.

And PS, don't forget its a nice thing to have an internationally  recognized holier than Caesars wife institution that can wire money no questions asked anywhere anytime to anybody (aka Fed)

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:52 | 3310592 greased up deaf guy
greased up deaf guy's picture

once again... talk is cheap. perp walks to a pound-me-in-the-ass prison would be a good start. paging bill black...

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:07 | 3310642 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Her problem is they play if you can't beat um, join um, or walk. She's already been for a walk and now she back for more. This obvoiusly can't end well. 

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:16 | 3310665 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Too bad Ms. Warren is an elitest globalist socialist that came up with the "you didnt build that" line in the first place.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:06 | 3310777 Harbanger
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She's a Big Govt., Constitution shredding, Progressive Indian chief and a fraud.  The fact that some people still fall for her theatrics is amazing.  She'd take away your rights and put a drone in your ass faster than Obama.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:33 | 3310847 LetThemEatRand
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So you don't agree with everything she stands for, therefore she is useless (even though she is a lone voice calling out the banks).  Brilliant.  Divide and conquer does work.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:42 | 3310868 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Spot on.


Fri, 03/08/2013 - 04:49 | 3311395 AldousHuxley
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this is like asking....

"how many millions of civilian deaths does it take to shut down US military?"

"how many millions of child abuses and afterdeath heaven selling does it take to shut down churches?"

"how many millions of proven lies and false promises does it take to shut down congress?"


BUT....members of society can take a stand against offensive institutions to reign it back in.

WHEN HSBC gambles away military pensions, then you will see generals going after presidents.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 05:05 | 3311398 AldousHuxley
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HSBC = HongKong Shanghai Banking Company



Established after the British established Hong Kong as a colony in the aftermath of the First Opium War


bank with roots in colonialism and drug wars supposed to feel guilty about drug money in Americas??????

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:43 | 3310869 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It's not divide and conquer my friend, that's what the left does, it's smoking out the traitors.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:59 | 3310910 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"It's not divide and conquer my friend, that's what the left does"

Thank you for making my point.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:01 | 3310912 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

The matrix is strong with that one Rand.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:26 | 3310962 Raymond_K_Hessel
Raymond_K_Hessel's picture

If the government won't do anything to punish the TBTF/TBTJ institutions, why don't the people? We could boycott if Americans would rouse from their slumber.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:41 | 3310984 YBNguy
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TD points out "get caught moving an ounce of coke go to jail, launder untold millions for cartels pay a fine." Its on par with Bloombergs recent, "if you owe the bank $50,000, you got a problem. If you owe the bank $50 million, they got a problem. And that’s a problem for the lenders." Which is just a rehash of Stalin's, "kill a dozen and it's a tragedy, kill a million and it's a statistic." I've termed this increasing scale of criminal acceptance "callous by scale theory." But is there a better term?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:26 | 3311075 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

let me add that if a lawyer touches 10,000 cash and doesn't report it they get big problems fast and are usually thrown out of the industry, often prosecuted.

Unless of course that lawyer's client is the bank  

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:10 | 3311234 James_Cole
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"What does it take? How many billions of dollars do you have to launder for drug lords and how many economic sanctions do you have to violate before someone will consider shutting down a financial institution like this? Mr. Cohen, can we start with you?"

Finally someone (other than PBS) said it right to these guys faces - I don't watch American TV news but I hope they are showing this!

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 05:13 | 3311402 AldousHuxley
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there are lawyers practicing law

and there are "lawyers" in congress writing law.


Guess which lawyers were legally excempt from insider trading until recently?

Sat, 03/09/2013 - 03:43 | 3311295 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture


What is with this divide and conquer bullshit? So because we all want to see the banksters end up in jail, do you think that will be the real "end". So, even if Warren is not pandering to the dummies, as I believe she is, and say she really wants to go after the banks, does that mean the ends justifies the means. To what end?  She is a socialist. I assume you are a bunch of occupy wall street/sympathisers then. If not, then you are even more clueless. This fight clubs purpose is not to bring down the fed, and the cartel, by any means necessary. You can not be so short sighted. What is the end that you wish to justify the means? Do you foolishly believe that the libertarian end and the socialist end are the same?

 You are quite oblivious to the fact that there is more to this end then meets your short sighted vision. You have a grave misunderstanding of the concept of "a house divided". Divide and conquer? Who says we are united? You halfwits only have half of the senario correct. The latter half of the scenario is, "what do we do after the fact?" That is the more important front, and on that end scenario, we greatly divided. We libertarians know very well that the end scenario is a return to free markets without government regulation. The free market has it's own governors to correct mistakes. The government regulation ties the hands of those governors causing all the market chaos we see. Divide and Conquer? Yeah. Those of us who know and understand history know the real meaning of that. You see? During the Bolshevic revolution, there were many fronts and groups to overthrow the establishment. The Bolshevics, led by Lenin with Trotsky as the mastermind, formed a united front with the other political underground and above ground groups. These foolish groups, some of which were similiar in philosophy to libertarians, decided to join Lenin and his footsoldiers under the same notion that, "a people united will not be defeated." They were short sighted in not understanding the Bolshevic end. They knew they had disagreements, but these useful idiots joined anyway under the same influence that you are advocating, and that is your mistaken notion of ,"a house divided" or more specifically, your claiming that we libertarians are falling for "divide and conquer tactics".

That is anything but the truth. You obviously do not know your history. Because after the bolshevic plot succeeded, the bolshevics had a dilemma. They now had their new political rivals to deal with. Divide and conquer was put into action. They targeted their new rivals and eliminated them. They sure did conquer. We are not allies. We are rivals. We will not fall for the same mistake that sooooo many others have done throughout history. Just look at Egypt. They had the same foolish misunderstanding of a house divided. They all thought they were on the same page. They all thought they had only one objective. The pro-democracy groups did not know their history. They became allies with the muslim brotherhood because they too were stupid enough to be pressured into the same fallacious notion of, "a house divided". I am sure many pro-democracy groups had reservations about joining alondside the brotherhood and the other islamic radicals. I am sure the radicals told them, "if you dont join with us, then you are dumbasses falling for divide and conquer tactics." They were stupid. They did not think about the "real end". Only the means. They now regret it. The same goes for Iran, in the late 70's, Libya, and many, many others throughout history. 

We know what the end is. We know  and understand the lessons of history.  You obviously do not. 


:"The end may justify the means, as long as there is something to justify the end . . . that which will lead to the liberation of mankind"


                  Leon Trotsky


    yeah. I'll let you liberals try and realize the true meaning of that. We libertarians and many conservatives understand what it means, but all your eyes read are words. Well, you do know the 'means', but you can never quite figure the true 'justification', therefore you do not understand the disastrous impact of that 'end'.


The banksters going to jail is not the real end.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:26 | 3310829 RockyRacoon
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Look, we don't have Dr. Paul to ask the tough questions any more.  I'm glad to have somebody who is even more articulate than Dr. Paul to make some of these folks squirm.  If you have to have perfection then I'm afraid your standards are just too high.  Take what ya can get.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:40 | 3310859 Harbanger
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She has nothing in common with Ron Paul.  She's a progressive socialist  and the antithesis of a libertarian like Paul, what part of that don't you understand.  Look at her stance on the 2nd amendment, our National budget and forcing churches to give birth control to their members against their religious beliefs.  What Constitution? She's a Statist, period end of story.  If you can't see that you're a fraud yourself.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:09 | 3310909 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I'm with you Harbinger.

I worked for a bank for 5 years a lifetime ago. Every year our continuing ed was always anti money laundering related. They made it absolutely clear that we needed to be on the lookout for money launderers. The training modules were hysterical. I am surprised at the end they did not say "if the client is attempting to wash through money in excess of _$$$$ please refer them to the wealth management and trusts department.

What a total fucking joke. This whole thing is a fuckin joke.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:39 | 3310979 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Take a car for a joy ride and go to jail for minimum 2 years.


Launder a Billion and pay a fine and go home and sleep in your own bed. Embezzle a Billion and buy RE in Cali and go home and sleep in your bed at night.....and it goes on and on.


It's a double standard and 99% are not in the "get outta jail free" 1%.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:14 | 3311241 James_Cole
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"forcing churches to give birth control to their members against their religious beliefs."

Lol, oh the poor Catholic church, such an upstanding organization! However will they survive this injustice!

Today employee covered birth control healthcare plans, tomorrow prosecuting childrape...hell is breaking lose!

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:23 | 3311248 RockyRacoon
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They were already offering it -- before they were told they had to under the plans already in place.

So, they were for it before they were against it.   Go figger.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:34 | 3311259 James_Cole
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Yeah, that was a non-issue goosed up to be a major attack against the constitution. I have a rule of thumb, the more coverage something gets in the press the less of an issue it is / the less something is covered in the press the bigger the issue.

I.e. HSBC drug money laundering / NDAA / Drone wars - hardly a discussion to be found anywhere. Catholic church contraception - endless heated debates.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:04 | 3310919 LetThemEatRand
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I disagree with a lot of Ron Paul's positions, and even more so his son (who is a corporatist).  But I voted for Ron for President (write in) and I would probably vote for Rand if I could.  A Congress full of Pauls and Warrens would beat the living shit out of what we have now.  

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:10 | 3310932 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

LTER I agree with you about the whole divide and conquer stuff. I just want to eat my damn steak and go back to america's next top piece of shit already.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:25 | 3311251 James_Cole
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Ron Paul is a mixed bag at best, Warren (though she hasn't done anything yet) seems to be the same. But so what? How about criticizing the rest of the congress who mostly range from abysmal to very abysmal and support the few times any of them take a good stand.

Can't stand Rand Paul, but his filibuster was absolutely the right thing to do and today it got a lot of press coverage and no doubt more than a few people who hand't been aware of the drone insanity got a whiff.

How about looking at what Warren said to these guys and argue whether it was a good or bad thing to do rather than start this useless argument over ad hominem attacks.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:24 | 3310960 Harbanger
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Paul defends the Constitution, Warren uses it to forward her progressive agenda.  Keep it real, you either follow the Constitution or you don't.  She's doesn't, read her stance on issues, this is just typical progressive theather.  Good cop bad cop, it's getting old already, she's not really against the Banks, the Statist are working with the Bankers to enslave us all.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:31 | 3310967 LetThemEatRand
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Keep it real?  How about keep it esoteric in a world that will never exist other than in your land of right and left and absolutes.  Carry on.  It's worked out so well thus far, what could go wrong?

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 02:47 | 3311320 The Shootist
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Don't sweat it Harbanger, I've had my fair share of down votes here on ZH. About the joos.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:32 | 3310968 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

She's not really against the banks?  That could very well be true in the broader sense, but appearances would say that she's not for the shitty banks.   And HSBC qualifies.   Calling them out is what this ZH article is about, and she did that.  All else aside, can we stay on point?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:47 | 3310997 nmewn
nmewn's picture


She called the regulators and government out for not pressing criminal charges. But her over-zealousness can have unintended statist consequences...true to all "progressive" attempts, the end result is often opposite or contradictory to stated objectives or intent.

It was her idea to have a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau...Dodd-Frank made it real.

The objective here (for all of us, including the younger among us) is to keep these fuckers as far away from our retirement funds as possible, not allow "government mission creep".

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 07:41 | 3311489 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Retirement funds? You mean degrading Federal Reserve notes, promised specify....long time ago..
Seriously, who do you trust now s dsys? Clinton's, Bush, the Fed, cops, hospitals, the skools?

Pink slime and fiat.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:39 | 3310982 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I prefer freedom to the constitution.


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:50 | 3311004 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:54 | 3311011 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Hey harbinger you have 20 upvotes and 20 downvotes above. That is tremendous. Way to make people think, whatever conclusions they come to. You stirred the pot. Nice job.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 02:44 | 3311318 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

She makes me puke. I've followed her empty suit forray into politics closely. She's an affirmative action hypocrite trying to appeal to 'occupy' liberals, because she runs in the PRM.

Whatever let them eat, you can go hang out with her and Obama.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 00:55 | 3311226 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Childish twit

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 14:57 | 3312889 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

Hey Harbanger. You are correct. But you are trying to reason with the reasonless. They have misconstrued thinking due to their deficient logic. You understand,they never will. They are infantile. They have the logical/intellectual intelligence of a 4 year old at best. 

  But those of us with right reason and wisdom appreciate people such as yourself to tell the real truth. I enjoy reading and seeing your well developed logic.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 15:59 | 3313060 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

There you go projecting again.  In your case, stupid just CAN'T be fixed.

Mon, 03/11/2013 - 03:05 | 3315835 Lord Of Finance
Lord Of Finance's picture

Projecting what? Explain yourself! Explain how and what it is that I am "projecting". Do you even know the meaning of the word? Of course you don't. You are a dope and that is all your dimwitted brain could come up with. You just blurt out uninteligable thoughts that make sense to nobody but the other logically challenged bafoons on this site.


 Is that all you have to say? Is that all your deficient pre-frontal cortex could come up with? I write methodical, logical truths and give many factual historical examples and you blurt out some incomprehensible mumbo-jumbo.


   Do some studying of philosophy and history and train and exersize that useless lump of tissue you have for a brain before you respond to someone who is aware as myself.


You are a joke. A complete ignoramus. I know the other dummies on here will mostly agree with you because common logic is quite uncommon.


Go back to wall st. you infantile halfwit and finish your lame, unproductive sit in. Your are a dipshit!

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 05:19 | 3311408 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

Yep, if I was an american living in mass I would have voted ron paul for pres and lizzy warren for senate. Guess that makes me a confused sob but I dont have time for ideological purity

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:17 | 3310947 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm with Harbanger too.

She is NOT Libertarian, not by a long shot. Besides (and can we be frank amongst each other here for a moment?) she's a liar at best, an "affirmative action whore" at worst.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:36 | 3310972 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And how many libertarians currently hold national office who are swinging away at the banks right now?   When Rand Paul swings away at the drone wars, I applaud him even when I disagree with many of his other views.   I hope you find your perfect world some day, I really do.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:55 | 3311012 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Ron Paul did work with a few from the left side of the aisle.


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:57 | 3311018 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

One of the (many) reasons I voted for him.  He's an idealist who is also a pragmatist.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 00:28 | 3311188 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

For the love of Pete, how on earth can you defend Princess Lie-awatha. She's a fucking post turtle if there ever was one. Fauxcahantas is CONTROLLED OPPOSITION. Wake the fuck up.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 05:17 | 3311406 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

how many people died from drones?


reality check:

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:59 | 3311025 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We differentiate "banks" from Investment Banks.

Do you, in your perfect world?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:34 | 3311092 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

if I recall correctly, about ten years ago, when we ripped down that division in the hallowed halls, there was one republican and one democrat who stood up, reminded them of history, and said that within ten years we would seriously regret it. The rest basically kept their mouth shut

Tells us a lot about our two parties

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 18:59 | 3313610 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yep...and even GLB was threatened with a presidential veto unless the CRA was strengthened as well...probably on "advice" from Rubin.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:44 | 3310991 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Ron Paul worked with Barney Frank to end federal prohibition on marijuana.

Ron Paul worked with that loudmouth liberal from Florida1, Alan Grayson to audit the Fed.

Warren is what you say. And I find Congressional hearings mostly pointless exercises, but I support her questions today.

1 I forgot his name so i searched for "loudmouth liberal from Florida" and found it.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:46 | 3310996 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

How many people on here bank with any of these crooks? I'm just curious. Those banks, even the big ones, have so little actual cash I bet the few of us on here could cause a good old fashioned bank run if we wanted to.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:06 | 3311044 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Alan Grayson is a real piece of work...has most people in law & finance at Harvard...and manages to lose his ass in an offshore financial scam.

And of course, wrote it all off on his tax forms, sticking taxpayers with the loss...if one thinks like a "progressive".


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:10 | 3311051 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

thanks nmewn. Grayson had me fooled. I gave him credit for being aware of offshore financial scams. Did not know much more about him.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:28 | 3311079 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its easy to fool people, just tell em what they want to hear.

I was stunned when ZH gave Grayson the same status (if I can say it that way) as RP just because he jumped on the audit the Fed bandwagon, Grayson is no friend of the common people.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 00:29 | 3311191 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

How 'bout you give us your list of those in government whom you think might be doing a good job?

I'd like to see who can live up to your absolutist standards.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 18:55 | 3313602 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ted Yoho, Nugent, Cruz, there's quite a few actually...the young turks are not the old guard.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 02:52 | 3311328 putaipan
putaipan's picture

nmewn- thanks for the heads up on grayson...he has survived in fla. i shoulda put that together. that's about like survivin' and thrivin' from illinois. and i shoulda learned my lesson a long time ago with someone like dodd  when he was all righteous and right about central america back when bush vice was iran conta-ing.


rcoon- well paul and dicuccinch are gone.... (graysons just been exposed, and they must have flat out threatened marcy kaptor)  these truly must be the times that try men's souls.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 18:53 | 3313593 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You're welcome sir.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:45 | 3310993 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Where are you Otto?  Here's one of the guys who bum rushed you yesterday, using your own argument concerning Rand P, sans Israel. 

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:58 | 3311284 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

..."forcing churches to give birth control to their members..."  You don't say, Harbinger!  Are the little boy molesting priests standing on the necks of innocent pious church going women and shoving these dreaded pills down their throats?  Say it isn't true!

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:40 | 3310861 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

fuck you asswipe!

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 01:08 | 3311233 dunce
dunce's picture

The old saying "it takes one to know one" and as a fraud herself she knows bank fraud when she sees it. Soon she will get in line with the other corrupt senators like Schumer and fall to her knees and slobber on the crotch of any big banker she meets while she picks his pocket. The campaign contribution is literally pocket change to them.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 03:33 | 3311355 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

While true, these questions still aren't comfortable for the establishment.  I do not think she's likely evil, just gullible without a good understanding of human history.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:55 | 3310985 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Ok I’ll bite. With the “You didn’t build that” line. Hmmm. Build what exactly. Let’s pick one thing - roads. When the ACME catapult company ships its product to Willie E Coyote, how does it transport its product? On roads it paid for or the roads everybody paid for? (Including them). When your local illegal immigrants take a trip over to Trav777’s house for a little chit chat and BBQ but first they need to fill up their tank – are they paying gasoline tax? Road taxes? Who is paying? 

I don’t always like her and I don’t always agree with her … but … just playing the devil’s advocate here so junk away assholes. 

OH wait … what would Freddie say? Oh yeah, Hope and Change. LOL.


Your factory is on fire – who ya going to call? The fire dept YOU paid for.

Freddie is stealing scrap out back – who ya going to call? The police dept YOU paid for.

How you going to call? – With phone lines YOU paid for. 

Anyways, I think that was her point.



Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:00 | 3311027 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"when seconds matter the police are just minutes away".

Also when they get there they may just shoot indiscriminately and if you are collateral damage....shit happens.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:20 | 3311063 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Which is what makes her and O'Barry's “You didn’t build that” line so incredibly stupid for even Harvard graduates.

Producers did in fact build that...all of it and they paid for every square inch of it, all of it.

Government didn't pay for any of it because government >>>DOES NOT PRODUCE ANYTHING TO MAKE A MONETARY PROFIT IN ORDER TO BE TAXED<<< to build anything. 

Its pretty basic.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 00:25 | 3311181 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You know, as well as any intelligent person here, that the pundits twisted the entire theme to businesses not building their own enterprises -- which was wrong.  You are right on every count; it was the "interpretation" that was incorrect.  In actuality, we all built that.  Businesses which pay no taxes are the bad guys here, and we both could work up a pretty long list of well-known names.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 18:51 | 3313589 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Anyone who paid taxes, paid to have "that built". And you know as well as I do that taxation of business (however low or high) is just passed straight through for the consumer to pay in order to maintain the businesses profit margin.

If it doesn't make a reasonable profit, it lays off it's employees and it closes its doors.

So "taxing business" is a non-starter with might as well say, raise more taxes on the consumer...because that's who will wind up paying.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 05:25 | 3311411 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

My god your as rabid as a commie

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 18:52 | 3313591 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...commies don't believe in God, do they? ;-)

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:10 | 3310648 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

the "vampire squid" is a good metaphor

and so is the "jewel wasp"

here's "Parasite tales: The jewel wasp's zombie slave"

watch in awe and come up with your own interpretationification

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:24 | 3310826 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

What a fascinating little bug, thank you very much for that, never heard of a Jewel Wasp before.  Very apt, I think the drug used on humans must be 'induced materialism'.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:24 | 3310952 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Also interesting... there are not 1 but 2 stinging anagrams that can can be injected in there, just in the right spot.  ;-)

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:41 | 3311111 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Wow - amazing. Cool stuff.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:13 | 3310654 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

In this case it's beyond cheap.

Am I the only person to notice she put the question backwards? (Especially given the reference to the petty drug user.)

She should've been asking, how SMALL of an amount of money laundering would allow them to safely prosecute without upsetting the system?

The issue at hand here is this, how big of a crime does one have to perpetrate in order to become too big to jail?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3310682 CPL
CPL's picture

Pick your judgement.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:30 | 3310693 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

History has taught us there's a way to clean up a mess like this:

Quick, effective, and energy efficient. 

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:24 | 3310825 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

HSBC was very accomodating of its depositors!

The banks' laundering transactions were so brazen that the NSA probably could have spotted them from space. Breuer admitted that drug dealers would sometimes come to HSBC's Mexican branches and "deposit hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, in a single day, into a single account, using boxes designed to fit the precise dimensions of the teller windows."

Read more:
Fri, 03/08/2013 - 03:44 | 3311366 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

It is pretty simple, people.  This is a biggest Finance Capital tyranny.

They control everything big.

Big Money Definition and Creation

Big Government

Big Drug Running

Big Corporations

Big Religion

Big Schooling (it isn't education, people)

Big Military

Big Media

Big Everything

The energy source for all this wickedness is Debt Money Tyranny

Everything flows from Debt Money Tyranny

“In our time, the curse is monetary illiteracy, just as inability to read plain print was the curse of earlier centuries.”
~Ezra Pound

"If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation.  This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in
circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon."
~Robert Hemphill, Credit Manager of Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Ga.
Source:  In the foreword to a book by Irving Fisher, entitled 100% Money (1935)

Nicole Foss on Finance and bubbles

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:48 | 3310884 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

@ NA

when you set one up for a fall you never ask what's expected... these guys are we'll tutored and pre-programmed in the language of ambiguity

think of a baseball pitcher's arsenal of pitches... they were looking for a fastball and she threw a knuckle ball, and finished em off with a 90mph slider!

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:51 | 3310597 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I remember a "know your customer" requirement from the old days with some teeth in it.

Seems that if Lloyd, Jamie, and Warren know their customer is a drug cartel, that's sufficient.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:57 | 3310607 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

What it tells you is who is in charge (hint: hangs out w/scarface).

If equity were the law then every non-violent drug offender would out today, time served.

Fuck'em and their 'war on drugs'.

Jury nullification, bitches.  As Doug Stanhope says "the guiltier they are, the better.'

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:57 | 3310611 PMakoi
PMakoi's picture

I have a complimentary BCCI necktie!  LOL, treasure!

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:18 | 3310942 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

BCCI helped finance Pakistans illicit nuclear program, with A.J [father of pakistan's nuclear program... and under the nose of Ronny Reagan`bozo, who also helped fund the program [ just to say-- we defeated the russians?!?!] Khan... while Pakistan used the avand?guard, ISI as a trading hub for Afghanistans poppi fields via China, Burma, et.el. 

remember Iran /Contra where oli flew all the dope into a small airport just outside of Clinton's governor's mansion where oli was a guest for months--- isn't it sad, or curiously funny, that everything this country does always fails miserably after a decade or so?

we have a covert problem that's now manifesting in our own back yard?!

yes we can... or change is good, is doing a great job shortening the timeline?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:02 | 3310627 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

 'No question the activity that was the subject of the enforcement action against HSBC was egregious...'


 there's also no question that it's a daily operation administered at Langley. Today and everyday.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 03:51 | 3311373 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Note the key points in the article:

1. Only the whistleblower was reported as being pushe dout of Wachovia.

2. The $10 billion to $376 billion in drug money WAS NEVER REPORTED RECOVERED.  I think it is safe to assume it was never recovered because Big Finance Capital, who runs the banks, the governments and the big drug cartels, wanted the money outside the system and so they got it.  The public is too brain dead to catch them, so they just do it and laugh at their victims who are so "out of it" they think we deserve what we get - and even use their media to tell us that to our face!

Netflix Cocaine Cowboys and you will understand how the mega banks know where the drugs and money are flowing and see, first hand, how the US military invades foreign drug running countries and confiscates drug trade bank accounts.

The system is corruption, people.

Humans are not rational creatures, we are rationalizing creatures - and this fact will be the end of most of us.

Got rational?  Got Trivium?  Got Grammar?  Got Dialectic?  Got Rhetoric?


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:38 | 3310856 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

@ knuckles


Fri, 03/08/2013 - 03:06 | 3311335 archon
archon's picture

Talk is cheap, as everyone in politics knows, and Ms. Warren has a known history of being a blowhard.  If she actually does something about it, then I'll start to notice.  Until then, she's just another noxious vapor floating around Foggy Bottom.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:44 | 3310570 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

So... We're talking 'WARREN vs. COHEN' here & expecting truth?



Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:41 | 3310543 CPL
CPL's picture

Bring real cash.


Gold and silver is tradable outside earth.  A lot more than is let on.  So are ideas btw.


Good ideas > gold/silver > nothing


The universe is an interesting place.  Come join us.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:24 | 3310677 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Yo JG, you're harshing my mellow.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:29 | 3310692 CPL
CPL's picture

Life sucks, pick supportability, welcome to being stuck on earth.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:56 | 3311015 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Speak for yourself.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:39 | 3310713 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

CPL - Any chance of a lift?  Earth. What a shithole.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:38 | 3310549 UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture


Stop her from boarding any airplanes?



Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:48 | 3310584 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Warren's a fraud, she says the right things sometimes, but she turns around and votes to confirm TBTF posterboy Jack Lew. She had a chance to buck the system and she froze at the switch.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:22 | 3310956 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

"What's..., Lew, got to do with it"

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:57 | 3311020 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I feel compelled to give you an Ike-class beatdown for that.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:59 | 3310762 markettime
Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:33 | 3310846 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

nice try.  an attempt at funny, but not funny.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:01 | 3311031 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

Buy Silver. Get out of debt. 

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 02:18 | 3311299 putaipan
putaipan's picture




How Many Billions Of Drug-Laundered Money Does It Take To keep A Bank Open?  .... all of them.


How Many Billions Of Drug-Laundered Money Does It Take To Shut Down A Bank?  ...  .5 if it's in delivered silver beeatchez !



Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:35 | 3310530 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

""if you're caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you're going to go to jail... for the rest of your life. But evidently, if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep in your own bed at night - I think that's fundamentally wrong." "

and she is fundamentally right!!!

and ALL of the big banks are up to their eyeballs in drug laundering - it kept wachovia alive until fdic could find a caretaker....vatican bank too....and bush sr ponied up 10billion usd of his drug money to keep bank america afloat in 2010....

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:46 | 3310541 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Despite their sometimes righteous talk...

CongressCritters will never really do anything to impede the "work" of their bundlers and facilitators.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:41 | 3310560 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The banks own the government. The small time crook who gets caught with an ounce of cocaine doesn't.

Simple as that.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:45 | 3310572 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

This shit is gonna blow the fuk up before this EPIC scandal gets exposed. The gov is completely infiltrated with traitors. These are such sad days in Amerika.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:56 | 3310757 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

"Truth alone will endure, all the rest will be swept away before the tide of time. I must continue to bear testimony to truth even if I am forsaken by all. Mine may today be a voice in the wilderness, but it will be heard when all other voices are silenced, if it is the voice of Truth. "

-Mohandas Gandhi

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:46 | 3310573 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

right, because we all want the banks to inquire into the nature of our deposits...

Sorry Mr. Lopez, you cant withdraw your money until you tell us what you are going to do with it. or where it came from.

ZHers can trash the banks for fractional reserve fraud, for taking public $ to speculate with, and for rapacious greed, but when you start holding them responsible for inquiring into the source of the funds on deposit its check mate for liberty in this country

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:50 | 3310593 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

easy-don't put the $ in your jew buddy banker's banks

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:14 | 3310661 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

im sorry marlene, did you say something?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3310684 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I'd like to give you a ride in my customized truck-the one where the tailpipe empties into the back where you are sitting

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:51 | 3310742 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

So when I go and deposit something over $1k in FRN's the teller always excuses herself and files a "suspicious activity report". Apparently a deposit of something north of $100k is suspicion-less...

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:31 | 3310842 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

No, those deposits don't happen at the front counter... it's a backroom deal... no paperwork.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:04 | 3310632 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

That's why I'm converting to Gold, Silver, and cash.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:07 | 3310643 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:59 | 3311026 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Don't worry, Dave...your kiddy-porn ring money doesn't amount to enough to require scrutiny.

Fri, 03/08/2013 - 03:59 | 3311379 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

LVD, pay attention - if you make a $10k transaction, they open up an investigation report.

It is already done.

When they bring in $100s of billions in cash and the banks lease the planes for the drug cartels, well, that's no problem.

When they get busted, they don't even report the money was confiscated.

It's all fraud.

Oh, did you know that Wachovia laundered $10s to $100s of billions for the Sinaloa drug cartel - THE VERY SAME CARTEL THAT WAS FED GUNS AND GRENADE LAUNCHERS, WITH TAX PAYER MONEY, UNDER FAST AND FURIOUS?

The Debt Money Tyrants run everything big...

Drug production, drug logistics, drug cartels, governments, mega banks, law enforcement, legal system, private prison system...  think Opium Wars 2.0...  this is a refinement, not a new woperation.

The Obsolete Man


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3310685 slyhill
slyhill's picture

<snicker> he he. you said 'fundametally' 

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:33 | 3310531 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Drug cartels will forever do less damage to the world than banks


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:40 | 3310558 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

Different sides of the same coin of evil. Heads Dimon or Draghi (depending on coin), Tails, chupacabra. Pretty awful in some places here in Mexico. Not just Cartelistas getting killed. Plenty of innocents ending up headless or wrapped in blue tarps by the side of the road. Also, in the relatively safe state of Guanajuato, about 50% of businesses report having to pay protection money to cartels or have been robbed. In Michoacan, the Cartels virtually own the state. For example every truck leaving an avocado orchard in Michoacan pays a fee to travel safely. Think about that the next time you are eating your guac. 

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:09 | 3310647 ersatzteil
ersatzteil's picture

The municipal police and army have done an exemplary job in Baja Norte. Army checkpoints everywhere. There's drug violence, sure, but not so much after the local government went back to the tried-and-true PRI policy of a "gentelman's agreement" with the Tijuana Cartel.

Sadly you can't say the same for other border states. Blog del Narco gives a front row seat to the drug war if anyone's curious.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:28 | 3310832 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Different sides of the same coin of evil.... Pretty awful in some places here in Mexico. Not just Cartelistas getting killed. Plenty of innocents ending up headless or wrapped in blue tarps by the side of the road.

Yeah, just like the good ole days of alcohol bootleging.  Good thing they legalized that "evil" devil juice or there might still be forces killing eachother to make a profit off of delivering goods people want... And since govy wants to add a few extra levels of risk, MOAR MONEY!  Rumor has it, drug dealers don't want drugs legalized... I'll give you one guess why.


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:44 | 3310873 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the "Cartels" you write of, and the "protection money" they extract. . . very similar to a nationstate tax, hmm?

one uses direct force, one seemingly less direct, in the form of a threat of violence, but the outcome, pretty much the same. . .

paying "a fee to travel safely" - yes, I could draw many taxation parallels. . . I guess it's all down to


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:37 | 3310853 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Drug money saved banks in global crisis, claims UN advisor

Drugs and crime chief says $352bn in criminal proceeds was effectively laundered by financial institutions


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 22:45 | 3310992 ajax
ajax's picture



Read "Our Kind of Traitor" by John Le Carre

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 23:44 | 3311120 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Makes sense and it's sick. The legitimate economy goes under do to criminals infiltrating the system. As the system gets desperate it relies more and more on the criminal underground for funding and techniques to hide everything. Look at Afghanistan for a fairly large example.  

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:33 | 3310533 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Whatever the amount is, the NAR can beat it.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:29 | 3310691 slyhill
slyhill's picture

ya, sure. but that's legal!

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:35 | 3310537 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

Must be awesome to be a drug cartel leader that is, like his banker, too big to jail.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 20:14 | 3310660 ersatzteil
ersatzteil's picture

too big to stay in jail

"El Chapo" Guzman planned and funded his escape involving a paid off guard, laundry basket and helicopter. Cost him $250,000...cheaper than most bail bonds in the US!

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:37 | 3310544 ATM
ATM's picture

So legalize drugs and problem solved!

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:39 | 3310552 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

You make too much sense......and you sound combative...

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:42 | 3310563 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

He shall be droned.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:47 | 3310577 knukles
knukles's picture

Fucking subversives.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:39 | 3310550 q99x2
q99x2's picture

They have taken over to a large extent the United States of America. They need to be stopped militarily at this point Ms. Warren. I'm sure she knows that. Now what generals in the military are going to back her.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:54 | 3310606 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

if you want the generals involved in any of the process of the remaking of America then you are not aware of the root of this county's problems

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:49 | 3310886 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

One example being Air Force remote controlled military version Boeing jetliners used in the 9-11 attacks on the NYC WTC Twin Towers. The Air Force was a part of the 9-11 attack Inside Job.

Do you think that in the District of Criminals, the Treasonous Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Military will do anything against the puppet Pretender and Criminal in Chief?

The Corruption starts at the Top, and works down the chain of command.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 21:51 | 3310890 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture


Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:39 | 3310553 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Much, much better Ma Squaw ;-)

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:46 | 3310575 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I'll keep calling her Grandstands With A Fist, even if no one got my joke yesterday.

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:48 | 3310581 knukles
knukles's picture

What if no one gets it today?

Thu, 03/07/2013 - 19:56 | 3310608 nmewn
Fri, 03/08/2013 - 00:10 | 3311168 Umh
Umh's picture

I don't know if you are showing your age, but I'm showing mine by immediately recalling that.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!