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Some Advice To Americans: Don't Be Engaged In Combat On American Soil
It seems 13 hours of open discussion on the Constitutional rights of the President to be judge, jury, and executioner aroused further response from the Attorney General.
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My law office mate is a former police officer of 32 years who did just about everything then went to law school and now does some criminal defense. We always kid each other. I can't believe how the prosecution behaves these days (as the former prosecutor) and he goes ape when he sees some of these reports. Definitley militarized. Definitely less of those early amendments. Even the court rules are being fashioned to eat them up. Speedy trial has more and more exceptions. Certain crimes are being given more and more evidentiary exceptions where, the golden rule, they can not mention your other criminal history, is starting to give way. What we both see is extreme ignorance of the law by enforcement and prosecution, worse than ever before.
working as intended.
drones, and I don't mean the flying kind. . .
"They will either protect the bankers, or they will step aside when millions riot."
In the churches of America when they are at your side with their families, in all the editorials, on every bathroom stall, in every news advertisement possible, on every wall in the land should be scratched this the question that needs to be asked of ALL those Law Enforcement Officers:
WILL THEY PROTECT THE BANKSTERS?
My father is also a police officer, 28 years on the force. He fought the gangbangers dealing crack in the late-80's with a .357. His main bits of advice to my brother and I have been "don't trust today's police" and "keep your mouth shut, especially if you're innocent."
my boyfriend is a state trooper of 7 years he is starting to get quite disenchanted with it all I am begging him to get his firearms instructor cert
I'm assuming that defending your home against some "no knock" attack by the latest "spec ops" wannabes all dressed up in their darth vader outfits coming to shoot your dog and molest your children while confiscating your guns would be considered engaging in "combat".
Ding, ding, ding!
We have a winner here folks!
"Mr. Anderson, why do you persist? It is inevitable ..."
What if a TBTF banker is engaged in open combat?
Mind *blown*
Spoken like a true lawyer. Well played (Dick) Holder
If he was a good lawyer he would have STFU. Now the door is wide open for the senator to ask Mr. Holder to formally define "combat". Would a conflict arising between a carjacker and an armed citizen be defined as "combat".
I don't think so Laws. Holder is just so arrogant now he is laughing out loud. He thinks he is invincible.
He had the right to remain silent. Nothing good comes from talking, ever. Trust me, I had an ill-spent childhood.
I hope you are right.
even a hack lawyer wouldn't send out such a pathetic letter.
A hack lawyer just did... He's just trying to lower the bar of "hackery"...
If these past few years have taught us anything, it's that laws mean whatever the hell the people in charge want them to mean. I imagine 'combat' can be defined to mean anything they want it to mean, and the definition can be changed at the whim of the chief asshole in charge.
The USSA has spoken... Feel your freedoms slipping away even a little faster now? As the pot we're in, gets closer and closer to 212 degrees...
I'm seriously starting to wonder if Hitler, Stalin, etc. got to a similar point where they started to do whatever they wanted, and no-one was able to resist... It feels as creepy as it must have felt in the 30's in Germany... Better get on that euphoria bandwagon, and let your neighbors see your Obama bumper stickers... Cuz if you left out your Romney yard sign too long, your probably on the wrong list...
CHILLING...
BTW... GW Bush made me feel creepy about the freedoms we started to lose in an accelerated manner under his rule as well... And I wondered at the time, what the other guys would do with that power once they got it... I guess now we know...
and BTW... June is the 50 year anniversary of the supreme court decision upholding the "banning of prayer in school"... religous or not, democracy breaks down when no-one has a god... 1963 was a very bad year... We never recovered...
Religion, any of them, allows for a moral appeal to an authority higher than the political.
This can not be allowed, under any circumstance, if The State is to be preserved.
states combine religion all the time.
there are many different religions, and believing in the State is certainly one of them.
"Religion, any of them, allows for a moral appeal to an authority higher than the political."
~~~
Bad analogy ~ Religion just gives false 'cover' for pretense of 'morality'... In reality, all it does transfer the apparatus of power to clergy instead of politicians & states...
.
My guess is that Holder would be more than happy for an excuse to formally redefine the definition of "combat". What he really needs is an update to the 1775 Articles of War so he can apply these to unarmed citizens.
Shut up, I'm not joking around here. That's what he needs. Now that the subject has come up he'll have that before the year is out. If nothing else this is how the Executive branch intends to avoid the gallows in the case where 300 million guns really does turn out to be enough to do the job.
Bingo. America being run out of the U.N. now. This will get interesting very quickly, and my guess it will be just as successful as gold confiscation was in 1933.
Just for the people who have been dumping on Rand Paul. He and his son have been harassed by TSA/DHS at the airports more than once. This is a less than subtle warning.
I am sure our police state O has warned most of Congress that they can be Breitbart-ed or Chavez-ed like old Hugo who has assumed room temp.
Maybe Mitch McConnel will grow a pair along with The Pentagon, Joint Chiefs and DIA.
The military better start choosing which side they are on.
What if I'm just militant?
or frisky in a militant kind of rough but not overly aggressive kind of way
David Koresh and Randy Weaver come to mind.
Indeed. Had drones been deployed, ruby ridge would have certainly gone down a bit differently. Stupid sheep.
Baaaah?
Come on knuck... A little more 'feeling'
~~~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rooPPLtK9pg
So he's telling the truth this one time?
He's been telling the truth, yesterday he said he won't prosecute big banks because they're too big and powerful.
I think Jamie Dimon’s dick was in his mouth at the time so it was a little garbled sounding
"p.s. - The President has executive privilege and sole discretion to define 'Combat' on American soil."
so oils and rope are out?? in?? maybe??
what do i tell the wife
Been playing a little "Foreign Soldier/Farmer's Daughter" have you?
In your safe room, with acoustic foam, L.E.D. candles because they give off less heat, canola oil only, no hemp rope, and make sure when you have your way with her the gun is a toy with one of those orange tips in case SWAT does a no-knock warrant to take your Gold and Silver (you terrorist).
I got me one of them trick toy stage pistols that the stick comes out with the little banner says "Bang"
Replaced the banner it with a rubber chicken feather.
Kinkeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee stuff!
ebworthen,
So if I buy a couple of bags of potting soil at Lowes and sprinkle it around in Central Europe, is it considered "on American soil".
I am sure that some Yale law school graduate can interpret it that way. Hence, you can do anything.
Exactly.
Or, the President can define "Combat" as a failure to disperse when protesting.
having to acknowledge any limit at all on his power must have hurt like a bitch
Just make certain the potting soil bag doesn't say "Made in China."
What if you got it at Shalom Depot?
Define combat. Isn't sport a form of combat?
is buying 'junk silver' combat?
Not yet, but trying to withdraw your money from the bank might get you droned someday soon!
It will be the day after they demand it all back.
Don't worry though, they'll pay full face value.
Mighty white of them!
Mighty white of them!
i miss the good old days when guys like this used to have to duck a bullet here and there.
Now see, that right there is verbal combat. Get your affairs in order and prepare to be droned, citizen.
WB7 does visual combat.
We'll miss him around here.
Please define citizen.
It's a synonym for slave.
Any illegal alien who will vote Democrat, or who will become a Democrat, or who will falsely claim to be a Natural Born citizen so that any Kenyan can become President of the USSA.
This is him being a lying prick and acting like he didn't understand Rand's question. Fuck Holder
it might finally be time to get the fuck out of this country.
where to go?
I hear Mali is nice this time of year
Technically, he's sayin' Americans on American soil* are immune from being labeled "collateral damage."
Yeah! America!
*Exceptions
-NYPD pulling their service revolvers
-Vietnamese women delivering newspapers
-etc..
Uncle Sam has long arms and can reach out and touch you wherever you go.
socialism as far as the eye can see. Best to stay put in yer bunker.
Join the US Army. You leave and likely never come back, and while gone you help secure oil and other resources for wealthy soccer moms living in the Hamptons.
Hey, don't hate on the soccer moms. They're just sheeple.
Hamptons. That part was deliberate. As for anyone being excused just because they worked really hard at remaining ignorant, I'm not so sure.
"it might finally be time to get the fuck out of this country."
http://investmentwatchblog.com/should-you-move-to-another-country-to-esc...
Unless he cut an EO to allow him to do so. Then is OK by me!
Identified as a combatant or engaged in combat? Seems Holder just screwed up.
Now it just depends on what their definition of "engaged in combat" is. Upon hearing some of the quotes from that DoJ paper regarding what "imminent" means, one can not be very sure.
Guilty and NOT given the chance to be proven innocent. Just wait until they blow up the wrong guy's house. The outrage will be unbelievable. It's always after the fact.
Innocents in Afghanistan sure are pissed.
I actually wonder if there'd be any kind of blowback here, or if the herd would follow the talking heads on Tee Vee and shrug off such "collateral damage" as a simple mistake.
it might depend on how the TeeVee story was told to them, hmm?
in other words, "if it didn't happen to me, why should I bother to pay attention??"
TeeVee has a purpose.
People will be too terrified to be outraged.
You need to start thinking about how this really works.
"V"
OK - two hardpoints on the predator drones r enough -
one to fire the missile and the other to drop an AK-47 on the pile of rubble ....
brings a whole new meaning to the term "throw away"
I'm sure the second one will be dropped fast and furiously.
It depends upon what "engaged in combat" is. The answer will vary depending upon how many body parts can be recovered after the fact.
<I suspect buying Gold will eventually be considered 'engaged in combat".>
yep. couldn't the planning stage be considered "engaged in combat"? what about fundraising? also, engaged in combat against what entity? could Bill Ayres or Tim Mcveigh be droned without due process?
I thought Bill Ayres was still hiding under Obama's desk.
"engaged in combat" might include US forces "standing their ground" against coordinated elements refusing to disperse from it's territory.
So don't block the sidewalk.
Shoot first and worry about definitions later.
Kill them all and let God sort out the definitions.
full metal jacket
Funny you should mention it:
http://madscienceunlimited.com/fiction/thisHeartOfGold.html
Too many interesting topics. Things are moving too fast. I need to get back writing or I'll fall behind and miss the revolution.
"The answer will vary depending upon how many body parts can be recovered after the fact."
Good point Mr. CD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1M7xpRV5cc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46wE9uI4_pg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhrxJgW6Q-I&feature=fvwp&NR=1
William Banzai wants to know if it covers Visual Combat ...
just not the boobs, please willie B
Question is now how do they define combat...........
This is how it is defined via the dictionary
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/combat
com·bat[v. kuhm-bat, kom-bat, kuhm-; n. kom-bat, kuhm-] verb, com·bat·ed, com·bat·ing or ( especially British ) com·bat·ted, com·bat·ting, noun verb (used with object) 1.
to fight or contend against; oppose vigorously: to combat crime. verb (used without object) 2.
to battle; contend: to combat with disease. noun 3.
Military. active, armed fighting with enemy forces. 4.
a fight, struggle, or controversy, as between two persons, teams, or ideas.
I would assume Holder is using it as a verb (used with object).
I'm not particular a fan of Ball Holder as some can surmise by my comments but here is Rand's original question.
"I can't ultimately stop the nomination, but what I can do is try to draw attention to this and try to get an answer … that would be something if we could get an answer from the president … if he would say explicitly that noncombatants in America won't be killed by drones. The reason it has to be answered is because our foreign drone strike program does kill noncombatants. They may argue that they are conspiring or they may someday be combatants, but if that is the same standard that we are going to use in the United States, it is a far different country than I know about."
Everyone can decide how satisfactory the response is.
EXACTLY! Especially thos pesky children!
But terrorism, of course, is not combat, right Eric?
(And just who gets to define what terrorism is? Oh, that would be the president, wouldn't it?)
And let's not even talk about aiding and abetting terrorism here, either.
By responding to the specific question about a weaponized drone to kill a non-combatant citizen on US soil, he leaves open any other method of execution the president chooses.
'
'
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'
Thank you!
I was just discussing the response from Holder with my 83 year old mother and this was her sentiment, exactly.
You put it in very precise terms, most excellently.
Unfortuately, with these little $‡Ï†®@†$ one must be very precise and pedantic with them.
•J•
V-V
Actually, domestically speaking, terrorism is now classified as workplace violence a'la Fort Hood.
Good luck getting your estate to PROVE that you were not engaged in combat.
It all depends on the real meaning of combat
Dead is dead.
LIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Ummmmmm......What HASN'T Obama&Co lied about?
Looks like no more Taekwondo classes then.
hopefully that squirmy little piece of shit Lindsey Graham will take his lips off John McCain's one nut and shut the fuck up now.
I sent both of those P.O.S. emails telling them I would be donating to their opponents in the next election. I'd love to see them get thousands of such pledges.
That's one of the only things those guys would listen to
"But then again, he might."
I'm in a fight to regain my sanity everyday, does that count?
No guns for you.
Sincerely,
BO, JB, EH, and DF
how sad its come to this..................even asking these questions.........................cant we just go back to the glory days when the government at least pretended to honor the constitution??????.........................
Um ... no.
I guess. Sorry.
"cant we just go back to the glory days when the government at least pretended to honor the constitution??????.........................
~~~
Like when was that? 1933? 1913?... I mean ~ Why be 'selective' about it?... Evidently it's BAD when they want to muddy the waters on droning you, but all the perps who stole your gold, made you a slave, & otherwise made it necessary to consider droning you... Those guys are fine & we won't talk about them... Let's just pin all on the boob who sits in the AG's office...
How very specific. I would've preferred
"Does the President have the authority to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?"
Rand Paul was shooting from the hip. 10 out of 10 points for style. I doubt he had any idea he might inadvertantly open the door to Holder taking the chance to establish a basis for determination of the meaning of "combat"
Opps. Oh well.
20 years from now historians writing about the lead in to the US Second Civil War will probably forgive him his lack of tact.
I'm very supportive of Rand Paul and am happy that he made a stand on this very important constitutional issue. My critique is only in hindsight. Unfortunately, when one is dealing with people the likes of Holder and Obama where in Clintoninan fashion even the very definition of a word like "is" may be brought into question, it's so very easy to second guess the wording of anything. This sad state of affairs is more indicative of the character, or lack thereof, of the likes of Holder and Obama, than a critique of Paul.
+1 Well said.
Flipping a hamburger in your backyard will wipe out the whole neighborhood Amerikano's. Be careful...
Don't drone me, bro!
Come on Snorg Tees, that deserves to be on a T-shirt!
Please don't drone my beautiful rack
t shirt
don't drone me bro
i'm a consumer
Posting an opinion contrary to the administration is defined as engaging in combat.
Interesting. The door has been opened Rand, now ask Mr. Holder to define "combat".
It never matters what they say or put in writing, they do whatever they want. It's a joke, and the joke is on us. The system is broke-n.
So I can carry my wepon as long as I am not using it to "engage" then? Yea RIGHT! As soon as the drone just sees you with one.....poof, "didn't there used to be a starbucks here?"
Buy an ounce of silver and you get combatant status for sure.
Silver Liberation Army is serious business?
McCain and Graham are two Fucking Assholes!!!!!!
Send them an email and tell them so!
You assume they, or anyone on their staffs, are capable of reading.
Are Holder et al. afraid they were caught out, prompting this response, or simply trying to clear the air because they were imprecise in their language? In either event, I'm more concerned, not less. The Fed has decided they know what's best for this country economically, with no input from the people, the Government is spending without regard for the debt, and now our civil rights are threatened. I believe we the people have just cause to claim there are traitors in our midst, wrestling for control of the Republic.
dark age it is.
so it begins..... again.
It's not the drone that kills the American civilian - it's the sudden and mysterious explosion right next to the civilian that does it. And while the wording is intentionally fuzzy on combat, it does make it perfectly clear that drones can and will be used to spy on American citizens, to harass them, to disperse crowds by non-lethal means, and to fix the plumbing at Republican National headquarters.
I hate to burst your bubble but drones are here to stay like it or not. The questions are restraint and moral justifications of the specific applications. It is a cat and mouse game, technology will evolve to counteract any strategic advantage drones give.
hhmm.
The definitions of combat and drone seem very relevant to this.
Big Sis has defined a potential terrorist as anyone owning a gun, gold, excess food, and/or ex-military.
Since I qualify on all counts, I guess I should stay indoors for the rest of my life or practice my skeet shooting skills.
King Of All Drones - WilliamBanzai7
http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-king-of-all...
Anyone purchasing physical gold will be considered a combatant of all those things we dearly know as American (i.e. credit).
What is considered "combat" - what is considered American Soil?
Do you drone first and answer those questions second?
First thing they teach you at law school is define your terms.
as was quoted yesterday : "It depends on what the definition of "is" is" - Bubba
"First thing they teach you at law school is define your terms. "
Oh. I thought it was to lie.
same thing
You have a point.
billable hrs....
the only safety is working at a TBTF? never thought I'd wish for htat again...
We need him to define 'engaged'. This is just more weasel wording.
Also, any drone pilots had better think about the ramifications of their chosen 'profession'.
As the outlaw Josie Wales once said, "Dyin ain't much of a livin, boy."
he may not have the authority but that will not stop him from murdering american citizens.....he'll just claim "ooops my bad. based on the information we had, we deemed the suspected person a viable target to protect national security" as you do when you are a nazi. besides, soetoro, as an indonesian citizen, has nothing but contempt for americans and the constitution....
then he will agree to turn the case over to an to international court - as you do when you are a rockefeller new world order nazi....
and then there is the definition of combat...learning from slick willie, he will debate the definition of "is" ad infinitum....."i did not have sex with that woman, monica lewinsky." that whole fiasco was a cia operation so it is hard to know the truth on it.
So the filibuster is a critical part of our government business after all?
I'm almost certain that posting on this website is considered "engaging in combat." Too much snow for the drones to find me right now...
I will predict what will happen. That is what is the role of Rand Paul.
As his father Ron Paul is controlled opposition, also Rand Paul is controlled opposition. You wasted your time & energy - some even money- hopping that someone else will bring the change you want - the change Ron Paul advertise to implement. But in a result - nothing happened and you got disappointed and felt even more discouraged.
Well, with Rand Paul is something similar - he will tell all the right words, and will show all the right energy - but in a result Cabal will show you just how pathetic his attempts where and that no-one can stop them. Again - this is to discourage you to do something about it and to show how "all mighty" they are even if you know that they will attack you. Actually they now want you to know that they will attack you.
So again - you are wasting your time, energy & resources to get disappointed and discouraged to act by your self.
What is solution? Well, ignore them all and work in creating your own community and own government for this community as much sustainable it can be. When there will be enough of such communities - this false system will collapse and you will live in your community system from where we shall develop further.
Don't waste you self on this show.
I will concede that the whole spectacle is a dog and pony show to one degree or another but I think there is a point that you are missing in there somewhere. You don't seem to comprehend how politics works whether it be at a federal level or a local level. It's not what you know, it's WHO you know. It's the same on a city council as it is in CONgress in that regard.
I have never agreed with everything Ron Paul has ever said and even less so with Rand. With Ron at least, he ignited a grassroots movement that got a lot of young and otherwise apathetic people to actually do something politically. When I say that, I don't mean doing silly things like what "occupy" did. I am talking about organizing, learning Robert's Rules, conducting caucuses and conventions, writing the rules for the conventions, endorsing better candidates and generally making a further mess out of the GOP. The GOP was a mess to begin with by the time we got there so all we had to do was stick a fork in them. In this state, half of the GOP is actually DFL!
When you say local communities, I can appreciate what you are trying to say. There's a bit of a problem there though and it has to do with finance. Maybe it's different where you live but from what I have experienced, the two major parties are both run as top down organizations with the biggest donors being the biggest banks. It's so easy to end-run campaign finance law that the term should not even bother to exist. In my state, I ran into Wells Fargo, TCF and US Bank. Somehow the state GOP managed to "misplace" some two million dollars and ran the state GOP into debt. I will perhaps tell that story another day but that might be a story, which if told and names named, that could become hazardous to my health.
The top down approach is the same in local .gov. The Bennybux flow to the states which in turn dole it out dribs and drabs to local .gov entities. Local .govs are jam packed full of douches from the free shit army. Those douches are your neighbors and they know who is buttering their bread and it ain't you with a handful of homegrown beets. They are not going to be your friends and in fact are likely going to be the ones who come in the middle of the night and swipe your garden clean. Then the next thing the local .gov will do if you bitch is to start mandating the usual doses of fines, fees and penalties that they are conveniently immune to.
Politics is a nasty business. Pretty much every Ron Pauler I know from the 2008 campaign, who achieved any state level delegate status has lost a good job and that was not by coincidence. You mention wasting time and resources? Some of us have so much into the cause now that we will never back down and we see human nature for what it really is.
While I see your point,(I think) please do not pontificate about what a waste of time it has been for us. It has not been a waste of time at all and if you ever want to have smaller .gov, then you had best start identifying who the key douchebags are in your locality and get rid of them. How you accomplish that is up to you. Who knows, you just might find a few Ron Paulers out there who know a few political tricks that can be played to help you.
Good Day Sir.
'Pretty much every Ron Pauler I know from the 2008 campaign, who achieved any state level delegate status has lost a good job and that was not by coincidence.'
Very informative. So much for freedom of speech, eh?
Unfortunately, it is not hyperbole this time machineh. It is very true. The same happened to me. There are stories.